starts now. i'll also be joined by my panel. the former editor of the sun , the former editor of the sun, kelvin mackenzie, and the former labour minister bill rammell. that's all coming up after your very latest headlines . very latest headlines. >> tom, thanks very much indeed. and good evening to you. well, the top story from the newsroom tonight is that rishi sunak has indeed launched the conservative election manifesto today, saying he understood that people felt frustrated. the prime minister promised a multi—billion pound package of tax cuts, including a reduction in national service insurance. rather, the pledges amount to a total of more than £17 billion in cuts by 2030. there's also help for first time buyers, with changes to stamp duty and the pledge for a new help to buy scheme. there was a promise to address the housing

shortage by building 1.6 million new homes and £83 billion has also been set aside to fix potholes and resurface roads. there's also going to be a total ban on smartphones in schools and on immigration. then there's and on immigration. then there's a promise to get flights off the ground to rwanda every month , ground to rwanda every month, with mr sunak saying the deterrent would be a key part of britain's migration plan. clearing the asylum backlog within six months. well, responding to the tory manifesto, the shadow chancellor, rachel reeves, said the conservative plans will lead to a second tory mortgage bombshell. >> it is true that under the conservatives, the welfare bill has spiralled since 2019, spending on benefits to support disabled people and those with health conditions has risen in real terms by £20 million. and under rishi sunak, as prime minister, the taxpayer has been losing £1 million every single hour to benefit fraud and error. >> meanwhile, tonight a new

yougov poll on voting intentions among the british public shows that reform uk has moved to one point behind the conservative party it also shows support for the tory party has fallen to just 18, down one point on last week. the survey puts labour on 38, the tories on 18, reform on 17 and the liberal democrats on 15 and the greens on eight. meanwhile, the home secretary, james cleverly , has condemned james cleverly, has condemned the attack on nigel farage after objects were thrown at him dunng objects were thrown at him during a campaign event this morning in yorkshire. police have arrested a 28 year old man on suspicion of public order offences, misunderstood a coffee cup and possibly building rubble, narrowly missed the reform. uk leader , who was on reform. uk leader, who was on top of the party's battlebus in barnsley town centre. mr farage had been addressing supporters when he was interrupted by a crowd of demonstrators. he said

he'd been warned by police not to get off the bus . that's the to get off the bus. that's the news. for the latest stories, do sign up to gb news alerts, scan the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts . to gb news. com slash alerts. >> thank you polly. now it's manifesto week and prime minister rishi sunak today announced the conservative party's plan for the next parliament if elected. so, without further ado , let's dive without further ado, let's dive into some of that detail. of course, it wouldn't have been a real conservative manifesto without those promised tax cuts. and on this very point, the prime minister promoted another tax cut to that double tax we have on work . have on work. >> we will keep cutting taxes in the coming years , meaning that the coming years, meaning that by 2027 we will have halved national insurance to 6. that is a tax cut, my friends, worth £1,400 to the average worker .

£1,400 to the average worker. >> but labour's shadow paymaster general, jonathan ashworth, gave a scathing critique of the economic aspect of the manifesto announcement on my programme earlier today. >> we've seen a desperate wish list the most expensive panic in history of commitments that rishi sunak cannot fund from savings he cannot find, because the money is not there to fund any of his commitments, and that means with rishi sunak, we'll have five more years of chaos. just like with liz truss, and people will end up paying more on their mortgage as consequence. >> strong stuff however, what both rishi sunak and the labour party are studiously avoiding in all of this discussion is that they both are keeping the frozen in tax come income tax thresholds in place for working people, leading to a tax raising phenomenon known as fiscal drag. rishi sunak champions his new tax cuts. of course , but misses

tax cuts. of course, but misses this crucial point, mitigating them . and this is what happens them. and this is what happens when i put that matter to jonathan jonathan ashworth of brighton, saying that the labour party has committed to continue those frozen thresholds, dragging more people into higher rates of tax. if you're saying that process can be described as a tax cut when the conservatives do it , why a tax rise when the do it, why a tax rise when the conservatives do it.7 why is it not a tax rise when the labour party do it .7 party do it.7 >> look, we've been very clear on tax. we're not increasing the rates of income tax, national insurance and vat. >> you're simply dragging people into higher bands. >> but we are going to put the stability of the public finances first. >> an admission there from the labour party. taxes on working people will continue to rise. so if you're looking for a serious reduction in the overall tax burden from any of the main parties, you might have to look elsewhere. but there was more to the manifesto than just tax, tax, tax, of course, on illegal

migration, the prime minister reaffirmed his intention to get those rwanda flights off the ground . ground. >> that is why if you vote conservative on july the 4th, the flights removing illegal migrants will depart in july , migrants will depart in july, establishing the deterrent that will stop the boats because when people know that if they try to come here illegally , they won't come here illegally, they won't get to stay, then they will stop coming . and if we are forced to coming. and if we are forced to choose between our security and the jurisdiction of a foreign court , including the echr, we court, including the echr, we will always choose our nation's security . security. >> he also promised to build more homes . more homes. >> in the last five years, we've delivered a million new homes in the next parliament. we will go even further, delivering 1.6 million new homes by speeding up planning on brownfield land in ourinner planning on brownfield land in our inner cities and by scrapping defective eu laws .

scrapping defective eu laws. >> well, some applause there for the prime minister, but could today's manifesto be enough to turn around a titanic of a campaign? well, i'm joined now by the secretary of state for culture, media and sport, lucy frazer, and lucy , i want to frazer, and lucy, i want to start on this question of tax, because of course , it's not just because of course, it's not just tax rises that have happened in the past. there are these threshold freezes baked in right through to the end of the decade . the tax changes announced today don't go all the way to reversing those. >> i think what we need to remember, tom, is the situation, the economic situation they're in and why we're in it. and that's the really important starting point . so the position starting point. so the position is when we came into power 14 years ago, you will remember we inherited a very dire economic picture. there was no money left and we started to turn the economy around. but that's what we inherited. and then we had covid and immediately the then chancellor, now prime minister, was there for hundred billion poundsin was there for hundred billion pounds in order to ensure that

the economy didn't have a downturn and that we could bounce back paying people salaries. we spent £400 billion on that, as well as supporting the nhs. and then we just came out of that and then we had the energy crisis with ukraine. so it's been a very challenging penod it's been a very challenging period for us economically and we can't forget that in terms of looking where our starting point is for the manifesto and a lot of people, i think fair minded people can recognise that. >> but in some ways this feels a bit like 2010. of course, it wasn't just a global financial crisis that only afflicted the united kingdom, but those who happen to be in power at the time it struck well, they made some mistakes and they got some things right, but ultimately they ended up being punished in they ended up being punished in the general election . is this the general election. is this not an entirely analogous situation? >> well, i would ask the public to think about how did we deal with that crisis. and what we've seen is you need to compare what we did to other countries, not what people would have liked us

to have done or what they would like the position to be now. and the position is vis a vis other countries, we three, i would say, much more than muddle through. we bounce back better. our economy, bounce back stronger and quicker from the pandemic than most other g7 countries are, far less quickly than the united states of america. most other g7 countries , and also our economy is now rising faster than the us, faster than france, germany, italy . italy. >> we've just just left recession well, because of the steps that we've taken, we have managed to do that . managed to do that. >> and now the economy is turning a corner. and what we've set out today in the manifesto is tax rises and tax, sorry, tax cuts, tax cuts across the board. so it's tax cuts for people who are employed . it's tax cuts for are employed. it's tax cuts for people who are self—employed. it's tax cuts for pensioners. and it's also tax cuts for families on child benefit all the way to undo those tax rises

that have come in. well what is doing is taking a very sensible fiscal approach where we're taking on board tax cuts, where we can the tax burden will come down. and what you need to consider is what is the choice . consider is what is the choice. so that's what we're offering. we're offering tax cuts and no tax rises. and the question that your audience is going to have to think about for you is frozen thresholds, which might count as a tax rise baked in. but what people have to think about is there's only going to be two people who are going to be prime minister on july the fourth and fifth. that's keir starmer or , fifth. that's keir starmer or, or or rishi sunak. now, keir starmer is not only offering no tax cuts, he's also offering you tax cuts, he's also offering you tax rises as well over £2,000 so far. and we haven't heard anything. >> the labour party of course, deny the £2,000 figure, well they do, but you know that that's been costed on the basis of the policies that they've already said, and we'll have some more policies or we may not hear any policies because what

labour are trying to do is tell us absolutely nothing. >> i think it's not really fair to cost what the labour party has or hasn't promised until they've announced them. >> well, they've already said they've already said they're going to be spending £38 billion and we need to know that because there was more to this manifesto. >> of course , and something that >> of course, and something that matters a lot to gb news viewers is of course, migration and illegal migration. many people will be raising an eyebrow as to why have not any of these scheduled flights to rwanda taken off yet ? taken off yet? >> we are prepared to. we've already operated everything, so we're ready for those flights to take off as soon as we are able to do that. from a legal perspective, we hope to be able to do that in july and they will be ready to go . and as we've set be ready to go. and as we've set out in the manifesto to be able to do that well, we're ready to do it. we're ready to do it when? as soon as we can do it. >> do you see why a lot of people are sceptical and there's some thought that one of the reasons this election was called before july, before these scheduled flights were due to take off, is that people just

don't believe that it'll happen. perhaps the prime minister doesn't even believe it'll happen. >> i think the prime minister does believe it will happen. and he's taken every single step to ensure that it does, including making sure that the moment that we can do it, we will. and this is really important because what we need to ensure for is that people don't make that that dangerous journey in the first place, and that that is why this will act as a deterrent. and what's interesting to see for those like the labour party who've said they're going to scrap the scheme , is that they scrap the scheme, is that they won't bring it in, is that other countries are now following us because they see this as a realistic plan to solve the problems that every single country is facing in relation to illegal immigration. >> do you think more legislation will be required to get this scheme going? >> we believe that the legislation that we have brought in is sufficient to enable us to enact the policy. >> do you think one of the reasons why you had troubles with the house of lords and

everything else in the last few years is it wasn't in the previous manifesto? could this election, to some extent be seen as as a needed mandate to get that happening, we believe that we have the powers that the legislation we brought in will enable us to get those flights off the ground. and we are absolutely ready to do that. of course, you know, the further measures that we've put in to the manifesto will, of course, as you say, strengthen our position to enable us to go further. >> well, lucy frazer, thank you very much for joining >> well, lucy frazer, thank you very much forjoining us, culture minister. of course, let's get the view , now that let's get the view, now that we've had the view from the, from the government , let's get from the government, let's get the view from the conservative backbenchers, former cabinet minister, sir jacob rees backbenchers, former cabinet minister, sirjacob rees mogg joins me now, so jacob, what did you make of what happened today? you've been critical to some extent of the direction of travel of the government over the last two years. what did this manifesto say to you ? this manifesto say to you? >> it's not the time to be critical. i am a conservative

candidate in a general election. i am supporting what the conservative party is setting out and what rishi sunak is setting out. and what he's set out is very clear , for. it is out is very clear, for. it is a policy of ensuring that taxes do begin to come down after a penod begin to come down after a period of consolidation , that period of consolidation, that migration is reduced, both legal and illegal, and that policies are implemented that will help people set up businesses, will reduce the national insurance on the self—employed, will encourage enterprise. this is, i think, really important . think, really important. >> i want you to have a little listen to what the shadow chancellor , rachel reeves, chancellor, rachel reeves, described this, manifesto launch as. >> rishi sunak said he was the antidote to liz truss . instead, antidote to liz truss. instead, he's cosplaying liz truss by again doing what the conservatives did in that mini—budget with, in this case, £71 billion of unfunded commitments . so they're not commitments. so they're not going to cut national insurance or if they do, all it's going to

mean is £4,800 more on your mortgage now. >> so, jacob, you served in the cabinet of liz truss. you knew liz truss as prime minister is this a trumpian manifesto ? this a trumpian manifesto? >> i think that comment from the shadow chancellor is the sort of thing that gives politics a bad name, that it is so ridiculously overstated. and rather than coming up with a calm and rational discussion about what the prime minister has proposed , the prime minister has proposed, she goes for some sort of headune she goes for some sort of headline on absurd figures and, overblown language. i think politics needs a calmer tone of debate, that the proposals are fully costed . i happen to think fully costed. i happen to think the savings from reducing the size of civil service could be considerably bigger than the manifesto is suggesting. i think those have been stated extremely conservatively , vie, and that i conservatively, vie, and that i just don't think it's wise of people who hope to serve in high office to use this rather highfalutin language. >> and yet she also used a

figure 4500 pounds worse off for families. the labour party saying you will cost them 4500 pounds. you're saying they'll cost families £2,000? you're both as bad as each other. >> no, i don't think that's true. i think if you look at the costing that the conservative party has done it has taken promises made by shadow ministers and has then got independent bodies , mainly the independent bodies, mainly the civil service, to cost them. and that has come up with a total figure. that is perfectly reasonable thing to do. the conservatives have produced a document. i've actually got it here. i printed it off in case we might discuss it. that sets out point by point how much things will cost and where the money will come from to pay for it. now, the socialists haven't done that because as always, the socialists forget that you eventually run out of other people's money. >> and yet this document relies in large part on on the hope of efficiency savings, on the hope

that fewer people will be claiming benefits, on the hope that there will be crackdown on tax avoidance and evasion. that's just a wish and a prayer, is it not? >> well, it's clearly not, because actually the figure for reduction in non payment of tax is lower than the government has achieved. and ministers have been pointing this out in interviews as in terms of cost savings within the civil service when boris johnson was prime minister, there was a clear plan to reduce the civil service by 90,000, which would have saved billions of pounds a year. that plan was ready to go and it's a pity plan was ready to go and it's a pity it hasn't happened . and we pity it hasn't happened. and we took on far too many civil servants as a result of covid. but that excess, that fat in the system is there for removing. but of course, the socialists won't do it because they love having a big say. they like employing civil servants who belong to the trade unions that support them . support them. >> well, the evidence might suggest that the current conservative government quite likes a big state, but i do want

to reference a new poll that has come out today showing just one percentage point between nigel farage's reform party and your conservative party. you're, of course, down in somerset campaigning. what do polls like this say to you ? this say to you? >> well, i looked up because i thought you might ask me about this. the opinion polls in march, april and the very beginning of may 1997 to see if we could learn anything from that. and it's very interesting that. and it's very interesting that they consistently overstated the labour lead, the labour lead ended up being 13, one , 3, and so many of the polls one, 3, and so many of the polls had it at well over 20. so i wouldn't entirely rely on polls, but equally, i wouldn't dismiss them. >> that's true sir jacob, although it did begin to narrow. so you're completely correct. at this point in the electoral cycle, it didn't look, they i've got the figures here. >> actually, they did begin to narrow narrow on the 29th of april. >> the nop reuters poll had a

22% labour lead. so no, they didn't really narrow very much. >> there was a little bit of have a look at what they what they said a week before the election, as opposed to a month before the election. that's what i was doing. >> i gave you just i gave you just a few days before the election, actually. >> so i've been looking at the averages of these polls. there has been a slight tightening in 1997 that we're not yet seeing, in, in 2020 for the right to the end. >> they were well ahead even on the day itself . they were the day itself. they were indicating an 18% lead, 17, 18% lead rather than the 13% lead. so there is something about polling, but there is a key point to make, and that is that if the conservatives and reform are very close, what does that tell you about dividing the tory family ? if you divide the tory family? if you divide the tory family, you make it worse for both parts the in—laws and the outlaws, so to speak, and that what we need is a coalition, a coalition of the various parts

of the tory party family. >> it might be a little bit too late for all of that, with just, three and a half weeks to go until this general election. but, sirjacob rees—mogg, thank but, sir jacob rees—mogg, thank you very much for joining me live from somerset. really appreciate it. and of course, to lucy fraser before jacob as well. well, now next we're having more reaction to this conservative manifesto from mackenzie and from former labour mp stephen pound and bill

welcome back to state of the nafion welcome back to state of the nation at 825. my name is tom harwood. and with me now to dissect and react to that discussion with lucy fraser and sir jacob rees—mogg is my panel. sirjacob rees—mogg is my panel. former editor of the sun, kelvin mackenzie and former labour minister bill rammell. i'm also joined by former labour mp stephen pound because after a double helping of the tories, what you really need is a double helping of the labour party.

stephen, we're going to start with you. what did you make of that defence really of the last 14 years that we heard from lucy fraser ? she said that there's fraser? she said that there's been crisis after crisis into national crises that have been foisted upon the government. >> well, to be honest, you know, she was making a pretty decent fist of it, but it didn't cut across. look, we're not the only country that's affected by this every other country in europe, in fact, most of the countries in fact, most of the countries in the world have been affected by it. and you look at the electoral results in the other countries just over the weekend, incumbent governments are suffering all over. well, there is an argument here, tom, isn't there, that it's the what you're seeing in europe is a vote against the established parties, you know, so there's a certain element of that. but the reality is you cannot really claim that the last 14 years have been a huge success. and i think she was claiming and what's fascinating was listening to rishi sunak launching the manifesto today, doubling down. apart from the obvious thing, he never mentioned scotland, northern ireland or wales once, but he also doubled down on this absolute risible nonsense about £2,000, which, you know, you know, there's £2,000, which of course is over four years, which

is like £500 a year, which is like what, £41 a month, which is like, you know, £10 a week only, only only £500 a year. >> i mean, that's no, no, no money. >> £10, a £10 a week is a lot different from 2000. the implication was that we're all going to hit with £2,000. but look, the reality is that we're in a situation now where keir starmer quite rightly said this afternoon that the tory manifesto was like jeremy corbyn's manifesto, free broadband in every garden shed. you know, your parsnips will be bigger and, you know, i mean, that's a bit rich coming from the man. >> good coming from the man who is on video repeatedly defending jeremy corbyn's manifesto, saying that these are great manifestos, that you should read them and get behind them. >> bill and i were both on the frontbench under different leaders of the labour party. and, you know, we know that you either stay on the frontbench and sometimes you bite your tongue and, you know, so he was lying then and of course he was. he was being loyal, loyal to difference. yeah. well, absolutely. listen to what jacob rees—mogg was saying about a gentler kind of politics and people, you know, people shouldn't be so to easy each

other. i think that keir starmer is a good example of someone who doesn't have it in him to do that hatred. >> well, let's broaden this discussion out. kelvin mackenzie, what did you make of it all, the conservative party are playing on a sticky wicket, well, i, i don't even know why they're playing on the wicket at all. to be honest, i think i'd take my bat home if i were them, i thought today i really, really loved the idea of national insurance being scrapped for the self—employed . and i can self—employed. and i can remember at another election that would be massive news for plumbers, brickies, chippies , plumbers, brickies, chippies, you know, the people running their own vans. you know, that kind of stuff. it would have been really big news for ordinary people. now what it is, is it's just a ticker tape at the bottom of a gb news interview with a lady who won't be in her job in about three and be in herjob in about three and a half weeks time. i'm afraid i'm afraid the energy is not with the conservative cvs. and by the way, as long as labour don't say anything they are going to get, they're going to goi 90 ng to get , they' re goin g to going to get, they're going to go home. i didn't mind her. i

thought she was doing her best and she was making a reasonable point. if you throw covid in, if you throw the ukraine in, if you throw lots of the fact that our productivity, our country is made up of bloody lazy people and i mean, the boss's right. it's the boss's. it's the boss's who cause a lack of productivity. it's not the ordinary, ordinary working stiff. and we've got a lot of lazy people in our country. and you throw that together over 14 years, it'd be a nightmare. let's just see. when labour on july the 5th triumphantly make their way into number 10, when somebody points out that pothole thatis somebody points out that pothole that is a labour pothole, and let's just see where we all stand then, bill, of course, you've served in a labour government in the past. >> once you're in power, if it rains, it's your fault. >> absolutely. but in terms of the defence that was put up, you know, all governments have their external crises. we have the global banking crisis, just as the tories have had covid, and aid and ukraine and you have to handle it. but you're also

responsible for it. and that's what the tories are not facing up to. and i also i agree with kelvin in a sense, i think people have switched off from listening to the tory party, there's no benefit of the doubt whatsoever. but underlying this is a real crisis in living standards. i saw a statistic today that average wages are £12,000 less than they were in 2008. wow and i think that is the real underlying issue , why the real underlying issue, why people feel they've been failed and let down by the tories . and let down by the tories. >> and it's interesting because this does seem to be a phenomenon, not can i just can i just raise that with bill? >> look, i don't doubt that people are suffering. i don't i don't doubt that at all. and we are not earning because we're not producing . okay. i have not producing. okay. i have never come across a i'm surprised that the labour government have decided to make this their mantra. i am delighted personally . does delighted personally. does anybody believe that in two years time we'll be discussing this and we'll find out productivity has gone through the roof? well, do you believe that? >> put it another way, if you

look at the labour track record over 13 years in terms of wages , over 13 years in terms of wages, living standards and growth, it was significantly better than the 14 years of stephen pound to bnng the 14 years of stephen pound to bring stephen pound in. >> looking at the united states of america in the year 2000, they had a surplus. in the year 2000, we had a surplus. looking at the growth rates in european countries between 1997 and two thousand and seven, we had similar high growth rates after the financial crisis. it's not just the uk that has lower growth, it's all of these countries . well, would it be any countries. well, would it be any different under a labour government? >> well, i think it'd be very different for a whole range of reasons. firstly, we had hardly any strikes under the labour government because we had the sensible, we didn't cave in to the unions, we spoke to the unions. we had, we discussed sensibly with them, you know, we had more strikes in, in one year of the tory government than we had in ten years of labour. >> the conservatives say that they have solved they've resolved all of the health care. i'm sorry strikes apart from the junior doctors who are who are asking for a crazy 35. >> but hang on, just look at all the other strikes that are

bubbung the other strikes that are bubbling up all over the place. you know, not just in transport, but right the way across the piece. look, i think there's different ways of working, and i like to think that the labour party has a different perspective. but onto bill's point about average wages. that is average. what really absolutely kills me, if you look in london, my part of the world, people, the average wage is something like 40 grand. you go up north, you get parts, you know, not so much in harlow where you are from, but further north of that, and you come down to the 20 1980. we have an incredible disparity in. now, all this talk that the tories made about levelling, levelling up, they simply they wrote checks with their mouth that they couldn't cash and we got to do something about that regional disparity. >> it was a great mistake to talk about levelling up. boris it needs doing thought, thought that just by saying it, it would happen, right? it was never going to happen. he should never have said it because it's been hung around the tory neck. >> now, there are lots of parts of the united kingdom that will see a slightly cleaner, central square. they might have a new swimming pool funded by the levelling up fund. they might have a sports centre. there are lots of places that this has

dotted around, although i suppose the argument against thatis suppose the argument against that is that having a new sports centre doesn't mean that your entire community is levelled up . entire community is levelled up. it's about jobs and growth and security as well. but i'm afraid we're going to have to pause this conversation here. >> there is much more everybody can say at the ritz. everybody can, but not everybody can. >> well, there we go. a final word to stephen pound. of course. thank you to my panel and to stephen. coming up, labour has vowed to deport foreign criminals and failed asylum seekers, pledging a new returns unit and extra home office staff. but will it work? and, can we can we trust man who once fought to keep

>> welcome back to state of the nafion >> welcome back to state of the nation at 8.36. my name is tom harwood. now, sir keir starmer has switched from defending foreign criminals rights to stay in the uk to promising to deport them. while the conservative party is perhaps known for taking a tougher stance on deportations, labour is expected

to try to exploit the fact that they're down 40% since 2010, though the tories claim this is often due to activist lawyers . often due to activist lawyers. well, with me to discuss this, well rumoured labour manifesto commitment is the editor of the former editor of the sun , kelvin former editor of the sun, kelvin mackenzie, and the former labour minister bill rammell , kelvin, minister bill rammell, kelvin, we're going to start with you, the labour party are trying to make hay out of this issue. do you think the country will buy that keir starmer is the guy to do it right? >> so nobody, nobody believes a word anybody says about immigration anymore, we've had the last, well, at least the last 6 to 8 years, we've been told that we're going to reduce immigration under the conservatives. that hasn't happened. conservatives. that hasn't happened . the opposite has happened. the opposite has happened. the opposite has happened. now, along comes the labour party, and they are going to come up with some rather complicated idea. yeah, we're going to throw them out, first of all, that won't happen for the same for the reason that it

was pointed out that every time you try and throw somebody out, then what happens is that some lawyers turn up and the weeks turn into months turn into years. this is an absolute disgrace. in fact, one of the lawyers, of course, of course, is the leader of the is the current leader of the labour party. >> well, bill rammell has the leader of the labour party changed his mind on deporting foreign criminals? no. >> he's always been in favour of having a firm. but fair immigration system. >> he signed a letter in 2020 asking that foreign really quite heinous criminals should not be deported. >> let's look at the facts. net migration is three times higher today than it was when labour left office. deport asians are down 40. we are very committed to tackling this problem and we're talking about a returns and enforcement unit, a thousand additional home office officials and real working together between the foreign office and the home office. now i know something about that. i was minister of state at the foreign office when bev hughes was immigration minister in the home office. we worked together on a

weekly basis with officials to drive the numbers down, and we cut them by about 50% between 2005 and 2010. you can make a difference on immigration, but this government has got a shocking record. >> is the tricky thing here. not that there are going to be lots of people who come from countries that we can't deport people to because they don't have a functional government, they don't have a government that would we would recognise we can't. we're not going to seriously negotiate with the taliban, are we? this isn't this one of the reasons why we need safe third countries with which we can use to deport people. >> yeah. and but you need genuine safe third countries. and rwanda wasn't one of those. so when i again when i was in government we looked at offshore processing. but processing not permanent resettlement. but you need to choose countries that are not going to get you into legal problems because of their human rights record, and it's been a gimmick that the tories have put forward, and it is just not a deterrent. and yet kelvin , not a deterrent. and yet kelvin, do you think there are any countries around the world, a

single country that that lawyers would say, oh, this is completely no, that's the whole of their that's their game really. >> the uk are we can't go there. have you seen the state of poverty in the uk? have you seen how bad the how bad the health system is? 5.5 million people can't go to work because they're so unwell. oh no, we can't go anywhere. there won't be a country in the world that will be acceptable. oh no, you can't go to america. they they'll kill you if. if you commit murder out there. oh, no . there's nothing there. oh, no. there's nothing that can be done. i'm afraid the lawyers, unless we start passing more laws that say that lawyers can't interrupt this process. i'm afraid we're done for. can't interrupt this process. i'm afraid we're done for . which i'm afraid we're done for. which is why, in a funny way, i can't wait for july the 5th. because as if. if i was only going to quote tonight's yougov poll, where the tories are one point ahead of reform, labour are in what happens? what do they do? i expect those numbers to grow, bill. well, i don't think they'll fall. >> they didn't grow the last time we were in government. no, i'm afraid we have to change the

conversation up. >> we've got a lot to squeeze in the programme. but gentlemen, thank you so much for joining the programme. but gentlemen, thank you so much forjoining us and putting both of your cases across. really interesting stuff. now, something else that the labour party has pledged to do today is to ban energy drinks for under 16 seconds due, to quote their dangerously high caffeine content. now, amid cries of the nanny state from conservatives and libertarians alike, shadow health secretary wes streeting said labour would be far more interventionist when it comes to children's health. well, what are the rights and wrongs of this ? with me now are wrongs of this? with me now are the telegraph's restaurant critic william sitwell . william, critic william sitwell. william, thanks for joining us, critic william sitwell. william, thanks forjoining us, this is thanks for joining us, this is clearly an emotive issue, and it's perhaps one that is electorally beneficial. but do people in the long term really want a society where the government tells us what we can and can't eat ? and can't eat? >> look, no one can complain about a policy like this on papen about a policy like this on paper. jamie oliver is cockahoop today because of it, the idea that you're stopping children putting unnecessary drinks that are full of caffeine into their

faces, and then they, you know, they can't focus on school because their brains are fizzing with caffeine. sounds like a great idea. but the problem is , great idea. but the problem is, as a single standalone policy, albeit announced with, you know, more dental care, etc. etc. it doesn't even scrape the surface of a far deeper problem, which is a massive problem of obesity , is a massive problem of obesity, of the fact that children aren't taughtin of the fact that children aren't taught in schools about food. now, i completely understand that because teachers are struggling to maintain discipline before they even start with, you know, maths and engush start with, you know, maths and english and so on. so when people like me say you need to teach food, you know, you know, most school teachers scratch their heads. >> but the problem is about what teachers are doing, what the state is banning. i mean, where do parents come in here? where do parents come in here? where do families come in here? >> well, of course, it's very important that families and parents can also educate their children. you know, it's a huge problem. you know, one of the reasons why this country is in

such a muddle, you know, we have the highest rates of tax. we have public services is in a despair, and there is one of the main reasons is the national health service is overwhelmed by the results of , of obesity, the results of, of obesity, which is a problem that costs this country more than more than terrorism. so what we need is a proper national obesity strategy. you know, if you go to someone like japan where you get free school meals and they're universal and there's a very small menu, there's not much choice. you end up getting a far healthier set of set of kids , healthier set of set of kids, not much choice. >> small menus crowding out parents. it's the state telling people what they can and can't eat. do we really want to become that kind of society ? that kind of society? >> i think that if people can't learn, you know, if parents can't understand, you know, that the main basic facets of good diet , then we have to leave it diet, then we have to leave it to schools, but i have to tell you that, you know, wes streeting wants to ban these

drinks. what about all the sugary drinks? and what about the poor? i mean, this is not going to be policed. okay? what about the poor retailer , who's about the poor retailer, who's struggling in his in his or her corner shop anyway? with 5 or 6 annoying kids who want to ransack the place, and then they're having to somehow take down these children because they're buying, you know, monsters inc, drinks. i mean, i don't think, you know, for me , don't think, you know, for me, it is kind of bizarre that there's this proposed ban for there's this proposed ban for the high caffeine content in in these drinks. >> the sort of energy drinks, but precisely the same caffeine content in a posh coffee gets away scot free. i wonder if there's a bit of class warfare here, if there's a bit of sneering towards energy drinks, whereas the cost of coffees or the starbucks or whatever of this world sort of get off scot free, but william sitwell, i'm afraid we're going to have to leave it there. really appreciate your time. restaurant critic at the telegraph. now, coming up next, international students are only supposed to be in the country for a few years, but many of them will be voting on britain's future next month . on britain's future next month. we'll be getting into why many

foreign nationals can vote in britain's elections asking debating. is this a practice that should

welcome back to state of the nafion welcome back to state of the nation at 847. my name is tom harwood. now hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of foreign nationals are eligible to vote in uk elections in 2023 alone, 250,000 indians, 141,000 nigerians, 83,000 pakistanis, 35,000 ghanaians, 33,000 bangladeshis and 21,000 sri lankans migrated to the uk . now lankans migrated to the uk. now they as commonwealth citizens, received full voting rights on arrival. strangely, zimbabwean nationals can also vote in the uk despite the country being thrown out of the commonwealth in 2003, 36,000 of those migrated to the uk in 2023.

citizens of ireland to a non—commonwealth country can take part in our elections , take part in our elections, although that right is reciprocal. now the government funded uk council for international student affairs has put out a helpful voting guide for foreign students who are only supposed to be here for are only supposed to be here for a couple of years but will have a couple of years but will have a say in a parliament that will last far longer than that . now last far longer than that. now joining me now is rafe heydel—mankoo and rafe. why are zimbabwean nationals allowed to vote in british elections? >> you might well ask that question . it does quite question. it does quite specifically state on in the terms of the legislation underneath commonwealth citizen, that the right still applies even if your home country is thrown out of the commonwealth, even that's that's a citizenship sustains itself and, you know, i'm a great supporter of the commonwealth and of the commonwealth and of the commonwealth realms. just yesterday i attended an event with the former prime minister of australia, tony abbott, conservative friends for canzuk, which is all about supporting greater alliance between canada,

australia and new zealand in the uk. but the idea in the 21st century that 55 other commonwealth nations that their citizens residing here have the right to vote when someone from india, for example, could come here on a six month student visa and vote during that six month period, is patently absurd. it's an imperial hangover. it goes back to the rafe . back to the rafe. >> i thought you were all about imperial hangovers. >> i love the romance of it, but you know, quite often in life, romance and reality are very different things. you know, at one time there was no distinction amongst the british empire, whether you were from christchurch, new zealand , or christchurch, new zealand, or melbourne or vancouver or glasgow or nairobi or delhi , you glasgow or nairobi or delhi, you were all equally british subjects under the law free movement and with with free movement and with with free movement entirely , canada movement entirely, canada destroyed that notion by having its citizenship act of 1947. and its citizenship act of 1947. and it was after that that that countries began to have their own independent policies. britain came out with its 1948 nationality act, which essentially said that anyone born in the colonies has the

right of abode in the uk. that, of course, was what led to the beginnings of what we now regard as mass migration, and ever since then, of course, the right to vote has continued . to vote has continued. >> and yet, from a traditionalist standpoint , from traditionalist standpoint, from a monarchist standpoint, from a standpoint looking at sort of how the incredible contribution the united kingdom has made to the united kingdom has made to the world can be continued, furthered . and is this not an furthered. and is this not an institution that is strengthened by maintaining those links? >> well, it depends of course, if you if how you look at it, because there's a clear political bias here, because we know, for example, that between 70% and 80% of ethnic minorities vote for the labour party . we vote for the labour party. we saw that in 2005, 2010. it's been replicated . so we have here been replicated. so we have here a huge tranche of voters who are actually supporting one party over another party. why the conservative party after 14 years in government, there was even a commission with lord

goldsmith that suggested this. the tory party, perhaps because also there are many imperialist romantics. there didn't want to do away with that. but the result is, you know, that there are more than 10 million foreign born people in this country today. born people in this country today . around half of them today. around half of them arrived within the last decade. there's around 5 million people. it's probable that there are therefore between 2 to 4, maybe even 5 million commonwealth citizens in this country. now, in this election that may not prove decisive. but in previous elections, there has only been a 2 million vote difference in the vote share between labour and tory. so we're talking about potentially in the future, the government of this country being decided by non—citizens . decided by non—citizens. >> so what what reform would you suggest in order to perhaps equalise or rationalise this model? >> well, the first thing, of course, would be to abolish any rights of voting for those countries that don't have reciprocal arrangements , as you reciprocal arrangements, as you said, you know, ireland does does have that some of the canbbean does have that some of the caribbean nations have that canada abolished the right of british subjects to vote in

their elections in 75. in 1984, australia also got rid of that. i think we simply just need to move with the times and follow the canadian and australian and australian models, because it can't be right when there are so many student visas being issued that people who are here for a matter of months , all they need matter of months, all they need is just to have an address and they can vote in this country. >> well, rafe heydel—mankoo, you've made a compelling case there. i'm sure many people at home will have thought deeply on that, and perhaps been surprised that, and perhaps been surprised that this, what has been described as an imperial hangover might well still be in existence, an interesting one. but up next, it's patrick christys with patrick christys tonight. and, patrick, you're back from your brief holiday. what's up on your show? yes, absolutely. >> tom loads . well, look, i've >> tom loads. well, look, i've got a gb news exclusive. the crazed knifeman who tried to indiscriminately stab a load of jews in golders green has been sentenced. you will not believe the outcome. there, i will reveal the latest polling appears to suggest that the muslim vote has collapsed. when

it comes to independent candidates. potentially some good news for labour. many people are saying this is the immigration election. they'll be picking apart the different immigration policies. there's an epic row raging about who can be trusted with your money most. so we're going tory versus labour on that. the lib dems are vote for them appears to be a vote to rejoin the european union and are polling companies actually trying to suppress the reform party's polling data? so we'll be getting stuck into all of that and a couple of viral clips for you as well. that should at least bring a smile to your face. getting bad news for vegans, tom. it's bad news for vegans. >> bad news for vegans. i'm intrigued. patrick i'll be keeping my eyes peeled for that. and, some positive viral videos is always something nice for a change. i see far too many negative viral videos of things being thrown at politicians these days, but that's it for us on state of the nation tonight . on state of the nation tonight. i'll of course be back at 8 pm. tomorrow, so do stick around for that. and of course it's the weather next and it's sunny in somerset .

somerset. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar , the sponsors of weather solar, the sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> hi there and welcome to the latest update from the met office for gb news. there will be fewer showers during the next 24 hours with an increased chance of clear spells, particularly in the west as higher pressure moves in. but we keep the northerly air flow so we keep that cool air with us and as a result, where we do see clearing skies overnight, it is going to turn fairly chilly. the clearest skies will be across central western scotland, parts of northern ireland and western england and wales, although still the possibility of a shower or two running into west wales and cornwall. there'll also be some showers into the northeast of scotland, eastern england, where there will be more cloud ten celsius here, but where we've got the clear skies for the west, the potential for the mid single figures by dawn. nevertheless, it's a beautiful start to the day for much of central scotland through the

highlands, grampians, western isles as well. we've got this cloud cover into the northern isles and the far north—east of the mainland, giving a few light showers in places. northern ireland, though mostly bright and dry. first thing likewise for northern england, a thicker cloud there for the east of england into the south—east. 1 or 2 showers about first thing. likewise for west wales and cornwall . but these are the cornwall. but these are the exceptions, i think, for the vast majority, blue skies and patchy cloud around first thing, but mostly dry now as temperatures rise through the morning, there's always the possibility of the odd shower breaking out once again across eastern england. but for many it's a fine and bright day still on the cool side, but the winds won't be quite as brisk , so won't be quite as brisk, so i think it's going to feel a bit more pleasant. temperatures of 18 celsius, perhaps 19, in the south, mid teens generally elsewhere. another chilly start to the day on thursday. plenty of fine weather first thing, but in the west we've got the cloud building the wind picks up. outbreaks of rain push into northern ireland, western england and wales by lunchtime

and in the east it turns cloudy by the afternoon as well . that by the afternoon as well. that rain clears to showers on friday and into saturday. >> it looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather

gb news. >> good evening. it's 11:00. >> good evening. it's11:00. you're with gb news from london. in a moment. headliners. but first, let's take you through the latest news headlines tonight and rishi sunak has launched the conservative election manifesto today, saying he understood the electorate was frustrated. the prime minister promised, therefore, a multi—billion pound package of tax cuts , including a reduction tax cuts, including a reduction in national insurance and pledges that amounted to a total of more than £17 billion in cuts by 2030. there was also help for

first time buyers, with changes to stamp duty and a pledge for a new help to buy scheme . there new help to buy scheme. there was a promise to address the housing shortage, too, by building 1.6 million new homes, £83 building 1.6 million new homes, £8.3 billion has also been set aside to fix potholes and resurface roads, and there'd also be a total ban on smartphones in schools and on immigration. there's a promise to get flights off the ground to rwanda every month, with rishi sunak saying the deterrent would be a key part of britain's migration plan. clearing the asylum backlog within six months. but labour has pledged to fix 1 million potholes every yearif to fix 1 million potholes every year if they're elected on july the 4th. the party says it will turn the tide on the neglect of the uk's roads. last year, pothole damage cost drivers almost £500 million, with the average damage worth £250 a car, according to labour's figures. the shadow transport secretary, louise haigh , accused the

louise haigh, accused the conservative government of failing drivers, saying the tories have left britain's roads plagued with potholes and have sat back as car insurance costs have spiralled out of control. well also in election news today, the liberal democrats have outlined more details behind their plan to replace the water industry watchdog, ofwat, with a tough new regulator. liberal democrat leader sir ed davey says the clean water authority would be given new powers to tackle sewage dumping and reform the water industry in england and wales. sewage is the lib dems main pledge in the natural environment section of the manifesto, which was unveiled today. the party promises to end the sewage scandal by transforming water firms into public benefit companies and banning bonuses for water bosses until discharges and leaks stop . the discharges and leaks stop. the home secretary, james cleverly, has condemned the attack on nigel farage today after objects were thrown at him during a

campaign event in yorkshire police