close on july the 4th. this hour i will take you right into the spin room. that's what you're looking at there. if you're watching us on tv or on youtube, where our political reporter katherine forster will be interviewing political heavyweights from both parties , heavyweights from both parties, going to be chock a block of big name interviews . we'll show you name interviews. we'll show you the best bits, like mr sunak giving this reason as to why you should vote for him. >> i actually have an appalling diet because i eat an enormous amount of sugar and i'm very unhealthy in that regard. >> and sir keir starmer malfunctioned at this question. >> you seem more like a political robot . how are you.7 political robot. how are you.7 how political robot. how are you? how are you going to convince others like me to vote for you? >> well, the most well, the audience got a bit lively as well . well. >> it's the doctor's fault . the >> it's the doctor's fault. the point . point. >> and there was even some laughter. >> but when i grew up, my dad was a toolmaker. he worked in a factory .

factory. >> but yes, the nation took a drink. now, in that national drinking game of when will he say his dad's a toolmaker? but before the debate tonight, the latest gb news people poll showed that the labour maintain a 20 point poll lead over the conservative, with tory voting intention down to 19, labour on 39. after the return of nigel farage as the leader of reform, the party has surged to 17. that's just two points now behind the tories has tonight moved the dial. i will also have voices from reform from the lib dems. and i will even reveal the green party's manifesto in all its glory, as well as reaction from my top panel of the director of the popular conservatives, mark littlewood. we've got landlord and activist adam brooks and ex—labour adviser stella kidu, but we're going to be getting stuck straight in to the spin room. now we're gb news political correspondent katherine forster. just some of the highlights to bnng just some of the highlights to bring you so far. so sir keir starmer couldn't really answer

the corbyn conundrum. he was trying to swerve whether or not he was lying about jeremy corbyn making a great prime minister those years ago. he was just getting stuck in saying, oh, well, i didn't really think we were actually going to win massive, massive problems there with credibility. what about wealth taxes? sir keir starmer was grilled on that. he didn't rule out really well on taxes. but what he's really saying is, well, i shouldn't need to do it. we've got no plans to because i'm going to grow the economy. can you tell us how you're going to grow the economy? he was at an advantage . why? because his an advantage. why? because his manifesto is not out until tomorrow. so he could tell us to keep waiting. rishi sunak grilled on national debt, grilled on national debt, grilled on national debt, grilled on the nhs, grilled on small boats, grilled on migration figures. but we can go now to our political correspondent, catherine, forced to write in the belly of the action there in the spin room. catherine, how was that for you ? catherine, how was that for you? >> well, i thought it worked rather better than that debate on itv last week, didn't it? because both leaders had more

time. they were given a real grilling, weren't they? both by beth rigby and indeed the voters. some really difficult moments for both of them, and particularly, i think, on trust questions of trust. but let's talk now to mark spencer, farming minister, mark, thanks so much for talking to us. and i'm not going to ask you who won that because obviously you're going to say the prime minister, but i'm going to ask you, you are in need of something dramatic to shift the polls. was that a game changing moment? >> well, i think it was a clear contrast, actually, when you looked at what keir starmer and how shift he looked, how he wouldn't answer any questions, he didn't seem to, he was very good at outlining the challenges, but never very good at giving a solution to those challenges . and in contrast to challenges. and in contrast to the prime minister, actually, who hit these challenges head on, who really did sort of set out his plan for delivering for the future and making sure that working people get tax cuts . you

working people get tax cuts. you nofice working people get tax cuts. you notice how keir starmer wouldn't answer the question about tax cuts in the future, how he wouldn't rule out increasing taxes on fuel duty, on lots of different taxes . of course he'll different taxes. of course he'll he'll say he's not going to put up the big three. but on everything else, he would not answer the question. >> but the problem for you guys is you've had 14 years. people will look at your record. a lot of people feel let down and they've simply had enough. have they've simply had enough. have they stopped listening to you? >> well, so i think the prime minister was absolutely clear that he recognised that the condition of the economy, of the challenges that we face following covid and the invasion of ukraine by vladimir putin. but what we do see now is that we're just starting to turn that corner, that he's got inflation under control, he's starting to grow the economy. we're now growing faster than germany, japan, france and the us. we've turned the corner. now is not the moment to go back to square one and to put all of that at risk, when we're just starting to make that progress.

>> do you take the point about trust , though? because let's trust, though? because let's take immigration at 1.9 million people over the last three years, more come into this country. that's over double what it was the three years prior to that. what happened to controlling immigration? because this is on you. this is not the fault of the european union anymore. this is because of choices that your government has made. yeah. >> that's true. i mean, to be honest, i'm proud of some of those choices. so taking people from ukraine, taking people from hong kong was something that was the right thing to do. but the prime minister was clear. immigration is too high. we do want to get a grip of that. that's why we've made some of the changes that we've made. that's why we're stopping students bringing dependents. that's why we're changing the work visa system. that's why we've increased the minimum salary to £38,000, to make sure that the people that are coming to the uk are good for the uk economy and are the people that we want to see here, but we do recognise it has to come down. that's why we've made the changes that we're making and it's starting to work. >> yeah, but it's ballooned on

your watch and just looking around grimsby, this is a constituency that voted for you that lent their vote to the conservative party back in 2019, with the talk of levelling up, i've been walking around the town centre today. it's full of shut shops. people feel let down. do you understand why so many people up and down the country have lost faith in you andindeed country have lost faith in you and indeed politicians in general. >> so i do. i do understand the challenges that we face as a as a nation . i challenges that we face as a as a nation. i think challenges that we face as a as a nation . i think the prime a nation. i think the prime minister recognised that that head on, actually, and he set out what he would do to address that. but i think we do need to recognise that following a global pandemic in covid and doing the right thing again in creating the furlough scheme and spending lots of money on keeping people in work was the right thing to do at that moment in time. and of course there is a cost to that now. we now have a cost to that now. we now have a plan to put that right and to grow the economy that's just starting to work. we're just starting to work. we're just starting to work. we're just starting to see the fruition of that growth in the economy. we're starting to see inflation come back under control following the invasion of

ukraine. now is the moment not to put that in jeopardy, because i think we're just turning that corner and we're about to see conditions which will allow us to cut taxes for working people. >> mark spencer, thanks so much for talking to us tonight on gb news. really appreciate it. right i'm just going to let you pan around and have a little look at the spin room. so if you look at the spin room. so if you look round in front of you, we'll see some figures from sky. then there's james cleverly, the home secretary, being interviewed live on sky news just out of shot are the itv and channel 4 cameras. if we can come now to the left, there's a table full of journalists tapping away. you see some household names there . adam household names there. adam boulton, very well known, of course, people chatting over in the corner just going to get out. i'm just going to get out of shot and rounds in the other side. the bbc, louise hague being interviewed at the moment, liz live, she of course is the shadow transport secretary

there's another room round the corner full of largely print journalists, who've been watching the event on big screens. i should tell you, we've all had fish and chips. that's my second fish and chips of the day, so i'm very, very happy indeed. of the day, so i'm very, very happyindeed.back of the day, so i'm very, very happy indeed. back to you, patrick. >> oh, absolutely wonderful stuff. thank you very much, catherine. great start. now we're going to be going back to catherine in about ten minutes time. she's going to do a bit more of a detailed walk around. i really want us to be placed at that scene for as long as possible. we've got some big hitters lined up for you as well. wes streeting and frankly, whoever she can grab. but let's get the thoughts of my panel now. okay we've got the director of the popular conservatives, mark littlewood, businessman and activist adam brooks, former labour party adviser, as well , labour party adviser, as well, and political commentator stella shawn seesahai. now, before i go to you guys, what i want to do is play a couple of highlight reels from this, some of the key moments from this. so this is keir starmer getting bogged down in tax . let's have a look. in tax. let's have a look. >> i want you to be honest here. please you've said you'll raise specific taxes on profits on oil

and gas companies closing loopholes on tax avoidance tax reform on private equity vat on private schools. but the tories say you will go further. they're right , say you will go further. they're right, aren't say you will go further. they're right , aren't they? you will. right, aren't they? you will. >> well, the first thing i'd say is the tories are in a no position to lecture anyone about tax rises. we've got the highest tax rises. we've got the highest tax burden for aukus for 70 years. >> no tax rises in the next parliament, no tax rises needed in the plans in our manifesto, in the plans in our manifesto, in the plans in our manifesto, in the plans. >> no, no tax rises for working people. that's income tax. national insurance. so you're ruling out i just decode just decode that for you guys. >> because when a politician says no plans it does mean i might. >> well i'm not i've done this a bit. >> it does . >> it does. >> it does. >> really interesting comments there about tax. he also said he would be happy to pay more tax himself . i would be happy to pay more tax himself. i mean i would have quite liked it maybe if it had been pointed out to him that he

can voluntarily do that. apparently about six people do that every single year, and a lot of his promises are based around growth in the economy. i'm going to talk about that in a minute, because we are yet to hear exactly how he's going to do that. that's his get out of jail card when it comes to not raising your taxes. also what does he really mean by working people? but i'm just going to play people? but i'm just going to play you another clip now. this is him trying to deal with the jeremy corbyn conundrum. so get a load of this. >> you said i do think jeremy corbyn would make a great prime minister, jeremy corbyn. did you mean that i was certain that we would lose the 2019 election? >> did you not mean it when you said it? i was certain that we would lose and i think many other people were certain that we would lose. >> so you didn't mean it? i was certain that we would lose that. you said that he would make a great prime minister. now, will you actually say yes? i thought that or i didn't think that at the time. just just be honest. >> i honestly didn't think that we had a chance of winning that. so you said it anyway, i well, hang on a minute.

>> that's a bit odd, isn't it? so what? he just say anything? i'll support this guy because i don't think there's any chance of him getting into power anyway. i'm not quite sure that adds up. get your views coming in on now. i really want to hear from you as gbnews.com/yoursay i say i'm going to kick off with the panel right now though. mark i'll start with with you on this. and he is basing his entire i won't raise your taxes issue on growing the economy has he told you how he's going to do that? >> no, it seems to be a wish and a prayer rather than a plan. i mean, he's right to point out and rachel reeves points this out, that if you get proper growth into the economy, a lot of these problems don't go away . of these problems don't go away. but they're a lot easier to deal with because you get more tax revenues coming in. at the present rates, you can spend more on public services. debt comes down. but i have not understood what they're going to do to actually get growth up. it seems to be they think that if anything, taxes are still not high enough , public spending is high enough, public spending is still not high enough, and regulation needs to go even higher. well, i think that's a

recipe for stagnation, not growth. okay. >> all right. i'm just going to ask you , on this one now and ask you, on this one now and whether or not you believe him when he says taxes aren't going to go up, he ruled out or trying to go up, he ruled out or trying to rule out a bit wealth taxes . to rule out a bit wealth taxes. he tried to say there'll be no new taxes. really in the five years of him, but it doesn't really seem to add up, does it? >> no. and i don't trust a word keir starmer says. i believe they will come for, for people's houses. i think inheritance tax will end up going, going up. they're spiteful . they're going they're spiteful. they're going for private school, fees , which for private school, fees, which we know is actually going to hurt many disadvantaged kids that get bursaries there. yeah, i think a lot of private schools are going to shut. they are basically going to try and tax anyone that they feel is doing well, and that's going to kill any growth in the economy. >> okay, i'll throw this over to you. because he was asked repeatedly there whether or not he was lying about supporting

jeremy corbyn. he said, well, i didn't think there was any chance that we were going to win the election. i wonder what you make of that. what does he mean by that? because how can we then believe him when he says, i'm not going to hike your taxes? >> oh, but i completely believe that he didn't believe that jeremy corbyn was going to be prime minister. did you think jeremy corbyn was going to be prime minister? i mean, look how surprised everyone was in 2017 when the labour party did just slightly, slightly better than, than than everyone expected. of course, you didn't expect jeremy corbyn to be prime minister but if you're a politician and there is a leader who has been voted in by whatever, whatever means, the only way for you to remain in the game is to go along with that leadership. and conservative politicians have to do that all the time as they had to do it when liz truss was leader. obviously you didn't have. >> suddenly every ambitious tory implication now is that he thought jeremy corbyn was actually potentially quite dangerous because he was saying that about rishi sunak's financial plans, and yet he actually actively campaigned for that man to be elected. and now

he's standing in front of the nafion he's standing in front of the nation or sitting in front of the nation now alongside beth rigby, saying, you can trust me, i'm the right man for this job. i'm the right man for this job. i thought that was absolutely astonishing. >> aren't you glad, though, that he stayed? because if he hadn't stayed, maybe jeremy corbyn would have. i mean, i don't think he would have remained leader, but if it wasn't for keir starmer, then you don't know who they wouldn't be. >> 20 points ahead in the polls if jeremy corbyn or someone like that. >> exactly. so aren't you glad that keir starmer is at the helm and he has reformed the labour party completely knew that there was an anti—semitism problem within labour when jeremy corbyn was leader and he backed him. >> he's also just let another mp in who he said had made anti—semitic remarks. okay, so where is he? >> we are. we are just on a pin in this for now, because i'm going to throw you back to the very heart of the action with katherine forster. gb news is stellar political correspondent who is right there in the thick of it. and we've got adam boulton protecting the delicate broadcast media ecology behind her there. but what's going on around you, catherine? can you just tell us, can you tell us

what you can see? show us around, please. >> i'll take you for a little walk. but just first of all, to say there's a snap poll . i think say there's a snap poll. i think 64% of people think that keir starmer performed better in that debate. only 36 for the prime minister. so let's go for a little walk . oh, adam boulton little walk. oh, adam boulton has moved. i'm glad i'm not going to go barging into him while walking backwards. so, obviously people broadcasting all around the place . hopefully all around the place. hopefully i'm not going to sabotage too many of them if we just have a look. now to the right you can see a table full of journalists tapping away, and then at the end, broadcast going on this room is absolutely heaving. as you can see, all the politicians on both sides being wheeled out now to tell you why their guy did the best job, why their guy should be prime minister. let's take a bit more of a walk round

here. just follow me. let's just scooch through here, so . so scooch through here, so. so let's go to. there's another room which i can take you to if we've got time. let's just have a look over there. now we can see sky broadcasting live over there. and that's, sam coates, our deputy political editor, talking to a thing that looks like sophy ridge from here, okay, let's take a left turn and go. excuse me, this is jess from labourin go. excuse me, this is jess from labour in a very on brand red red suit. i'm wearing a red jacket , too. but anyway, don't jacket, too. but anyway, don't read anything into that, let's go through here. thank you. oh, there's adam boulton again. maybe i can crash into adam boulton this time. oh thank you, adam boulton, for moving to the side. do you like my backwards walking? so this is where a little bit earlier there was fish and chips and we all fell upon that. oh, there's some nice. oh. are they alcoholic ? yes. >> whisky. whisky, whisky. winsby >> pale ale. lovely, lovely. so

we'll be having, having that after we finish on shift. obviously in here we've got lots of print journalists, a bit quieter than it was earlier, but they're all filing their lines for tomorrow's papers, i think that's about it for now. i'll be talking to another politician shortly. back to you in the studio, patrick. >> catherine. thank you very much. that was remarkable work there. and yes, i think you've earned whatever was in that can after this particular stint from you will be going back to catherine because she's got a totter off now and grab us some more politicians. so we can keep that coming. thank you very, very much. right now, we've heard a bit from keir starmer. we're going to be returning to some more of the clips from him, though shortly, because there was quite a lot to unpack there. i'm really keen to drill down into what you're saying about jeremy corbyn. he was also , jeremy corbyn. he was also, talking about doctor salaries, and there was an interesting thing on that. but let's hear from the prime minister now , from the prime minister now, here's a reaction. and i, i dare

say that the initial reaction about rishi sunak's, excuse for nhs waiting lists going up from this audience that we saw there might be different from your reaction at home or if you're listening on your radio, in your car . let's listening on your radio, in your car. let's hear listening on your radio, in your car . let's hear what he listening on your radio, in your car. let's hear what he had to say about nhs waiting lists. >> well, i think you had you had a question earlier from i think there was a junior doctor here, and i think everyone knows the impact the industrial action has had. that's why we haven't made as much at the point . as much at the point. >> yeah. so just for a bit of context there, there was a junior doctor in the crowd. he initially asked keir starmer a question directly , saying, well, question directly, saying, well, look, you know, what are you going to do for us all right now keir starmer's response to that was, i'm not going to give you the 35, but what i am going to do is i'm going to get in the room, i'm going to roll my sleeves up, i'm going to have a grown up conversation with you. so that was the extent of the labour party plan. all right. make of that what you will. rishi sunak. they're saying that, you know, the nhs has had

to deal with covid and it has had to deal with whopping great big strike action as well. he went on to talk about increased funding. he went on to say that actually, if you do look in the last few months, waiting lists are coming down, so they're in the right direction. i have got another rishi sunak clip to go to right now though, and then i'll get reaction from my panel. i'll get reaction from my panel. i believe this one is on immigration, specifically when it comes to the tories record post brexit. take a look and listen. >> the net migration into this country has more than doubled in the last three years. from before we left the european union. yeah, i'm sure it's a it's too high. >> i've been very clear that it's too high. and i'm sure people are feel frustrated and angry about it. but what i can tell you is what i've done in the time i've had this job is already starting to bring them down because we've taken action to change things. so last year the numbers were down by 10% already, and this year the number of visas that we've issued is down by around a quarter. and the forecasts show that we're on track to halve net

migration in just over a year's time. >> right. let's pick those two clips apart then. mark, i'll start with you. was the audience right to boo when he mentioned industrial action for nhs waiting lists? >> well i mean rishi sunak's right. they're perfectly entitled to boo him . but it entitled to boo him. but it obviously has exacerbated the problem. there's absolutely no way we're going to offer the junior doctors 35% pay hikes, but sometimes it's frustrating. i think with sunak he just doesn't get his words out in quite the right way. he made it sound like he was just blaming the doctors and nothing was on the doctors and nothing was on the government at all, and that's just a bad look. but he has got a point . if junior has got a point. if junior doctors go on strike, all things equal , doctors go on strike, all things equal, waiting lists will go up andifs equal, waiting lists will go up and it's reasonable for the junior doctors to shoulder some of that blame along with the conservatives. >> okay, adam, what do you make of those junior doctors claims they're from rishi sunak , you they're from rishi sunak, you know, pinning quite a bit of it on industrial action. well that's right, i mean, the industrial action has cost lives. >> they are asking for far too much money that even labour are

saying that they can't pay. junior doctors in scotland and wales accepted a far less, pay rise . this is political and i rise. this is political and i believe they will change their tune as soon as labour gets in. and when he rolls up his sleeves, he's going to be this magician that sort it out. these junior doctors are political activists. >> okay, now i'm going to play you . what, keir starmer said in you. what, keir starmer said in response to the junior doctors question. want to get your reaction from it here? as a former labour party adviser, let's hear from who is currently the leader of the opposition anyway , but are you going to pay anyway, but are you going to pay them more because you've said that you won't meet their pay claims? >> well, the doctors say they want 35. and i've had to say we don't know. >> we want a path to pay restoration. >> so i get that. but again , i >> so i get that. but again, i want to be straight about terms. >> yeah. and we're looking to make that 35% thing is not pay progression conditions. >> and all of that can be negotiated on the 35, i don't think we can afford that as a

country because of the damage that's been done to the economy. i don't want to pretend to you that we can. i'll sit down in a room and negotiate and find a way through this, just as has happenedin way through this, just as has happened in other countries, because it's intolerable that we go on. but i'm not going to start with the proposition that we simply accept whatever the other side is asking for. that's not how negotiations go. and you wouldn't respect a government if it operated in that way. >> okay, stellar. he does not have a plan to get the doctors off strike, does he? >> is this not is this not what gb news viewers wanted for keir starmer to be honest about and realistic about what he can and what he cannot do? would you have preferred it if he had, answered to that junior doctor and said, don't you worry, we're going to solve all your problems. we're going to give you the pay rise. we're going to put that into our manifesto tomorrow. you are all going to be so, so happy. you would have hated that. and you would have rightly attacked him. and i think this is one of the things that keir starmer did well in this debate today, which was very, very difficult. but in all of the hard questions, he was very realistic. he was pragmatic. he said the truth, he was honest . he didn't promise was honest. he didn't promise anything. that is not going to

be in the manifesto or that he is not certain that he can achieve. >> there is not a plan rolling your sleeves up. it's not a plan, and having another conversation with them. it's not a plan, is it? >> in terms of nhs reform , >> in terms of nhs reform, though, you will forget there was a time under tony blair where people used to complain about their gps giving them an appointment too early. there was such a time when the waiting lists were this low where people were able to get an appointment on the same day they were complaining about that levels of net migration because the conservative government for 15 years. are you telling me you think there are there is an nhs reform. >> what we know from what keir starmer has told us is that the labour manifesto, which is going to be released tomorrow, is fully funded and fully costed. so we will presumably see a number in it for what he's offering. the junior doctors . if offering. the junior doctors. if there's no number in it, he's offering them nought. so when maybe he's offering them 10, maybe he's offering them 10, maybe he's offering them 10, maybe he's offering them 20. he's very clear. it's a fully funded manifesto. so let's see what's in there for the junior doctors. can i just can i just

remind everybody of what the very latest polling was before that debate or leadership event or whatever it is you want to call it. >> as the latest gb news people's poll showed that labour maintained a 20 point poll lead over the conservatives tory voting intention was down at 19, labour 39. the return of nigel farage, the leader of reform, has got them on 17. yes, that is just two points behind the tories now, adam, one of the big things that rishi sunak was hammered on there was his record and the tories record really more broadly on immigration. 1.9 million people entering the country in the last couple of years compared to, i think, the three years before brexit, which if i remember correctly, was about 895,000, right . so they're about 895,000, right. so they're saying there that you were backing brexit and actually what you've done instead is throw our borders open and it doesn't really have much of an answer for that, does he? >> no he doesn't. and what the conservatives have done with illegal immigration and illegal immigration is diabolical and

unforgivable . jul rishi immigration is diabolical and unforgivable .jul rishi sunak unforgivable. jul rishi sunak has been talking tough about illegal immigration for two and a half years now. we've seen nothing. yes, they stopped a few albanians coming over, which was absurd. anyway but a strong prime minister would have maybe turned back the boats. like what? australia and what greece did . take action. it's the thing did. take action. it's the thing that upsets the electorate the most. we have tens of thousands of unverified, unchecked men walking round our towns. there's some terrible crimes that have happened with some of these people as well. the streets are unsafe . we've got bad people in unsafe. we've got bad people in this country, but we're importing some bad people as well. and that's not right . well. and that's not right. >> there was a moment we'll bnng >> there was a moment we'll bring this to you a little bit later on, but there was a moment where rishi sunak was talking about the rwanda plan, and he was also saying about how seriously he wants to take migration, and that there was actually a round of applause . actually a round of applause. smattered in amongst that, it is clear that the people of grimsby

and all over the country do obviously want to bring immigration down, to get control of our borders. there is that massive credibility gap, i would argue, that exists for both of the men that we heard there. i think i might be able to play you a little clip of something involving rwanda that rishi sunak was talking about. let's see it . see it. >> we've done is already started detaining people, airfields on standby, planes are booked. the date for the first flight is out on the 24th. i think it is of july. and the important point here is this is about establishing a deterrent, because i believe that if people come here illegally, they shouldn't be able to stay. we need to have somewhere safe to remove them. and that's how we will stop the boats. and that's what rwanda is about. >> yeah. there you go. i mean, there was a round of applause there. and that, by the way, was in amongst what was quite challenging evening for rishi sunak, as is reflected by what do you call an exit poll, the verdict, which katherine forster mentioned to us earlier on which i think 64% of people had sir keir starmer as the victor. now, very soon i will take you back to that election event spin

room, and we are going to be heanng room, and we are going to be hearing from labour's shadow health secretary, wes streeting, which will be really good because the nhs actually played a massive, massive role there for both keir starmer and rishi sunak. but before that, let's just remind ourselves of someone who was not on that stage tonight. and it was lib dem leader ed davey . tonight. and it was lib dem leader ed davey. he was back on the campaign trail today. he made a little splash , didn't he, made a little splash, didn't he, in warwickshire. so we have a bit of a laugh at him. go back. right. okay. well davey was detailing plans to replace water regulator ofwat through a tough new regulator to clamp down on britain's private water companies. he's been big on it, isn't he? he really, really wants to clean up your waterways. and i'm delighted to welcome the liberal democrat leader of liverpool council. it's carl cashman carl thank you very much. great to have you on

the show. much appreciated. i do want to just ground it a little bit really in what we've just seen. i think in that election event as well, which ed davey was not a part of. do you think that the lib dem leader should have also been on that stage? and also, what did you make of what we heard there from both rishi sunak and keir starmer? please yeah, i do think that it should have been on the stage, patrick, i think we've seen that in previous elections and we're polling very good at the moment and we've actually got a significant amount of mps in parliament. if you look at the polls, it looks like we could potentially have over 50 mps in the new parliament. and i think looking at the debate tonight, what i took away from it was there was one person in rishi sunak that didn't want to talk about the past, but there was also another person in keir starmer that didn't want to talk about the future . and i still about the future. and i still feel like it's very vague what the labour party are going to do in government. >> yeah, i must say i think that is a really, really astute

analysis. the amount of times that keir starmer, i mean, there was that now infamous one about him saying you're a bit of a robot, aren't you? and he proceeded to behave exactly like a robot, which was freeze and then just repeat his answers about when he was working on northern ireland. when he was working at the cpac, he obviously dropped the darts , a obviously dropped the darts, a toolmaker comment as well. the national took a shot for that one, didn't they? fantastic you know, were you then a bit more impressed with rishi sunak? i i think i feel a little bit sorry for rishi sunak in some ways, just because, you know, his party's landed him in a position where, you know, to be honest, there's nothing he can do really. >> now that's going to recover the tories in the polls. and that's why you've got someone as potentially robotic as keir starmer doing as well as he is doing. and i don't think there's any particular for love him or even the labour party, to be perfectly honest . but, you know, perfectly honest. but, you know, rishi sunak is just in a difficult position . but let's difficult position. but let's not also absolve him from, some of the issues that he's caused

himself and supported in previous conservative governments. >> one of those things was brexit. the liberal democrats have basically now said a vote for them is a vote to rejoin the european union. interesting to see how they marry that up with their desire to also target a lot of those blue wall seats . lot of those blue wall seats. are you a fan of your particular party leader, sir ed davey ? party leader, sir ed davey? >> yeah, i think it's, it's nice to see a party leader who is having a little bit of fun on a campaign trail. and the stunts that he's doing, i think are getting him a little bit of attention, you know, i asked my nan the other day, said, how do you think the election campaigns going? and she said, you know, labour are doing this looks like it's going to be a labour government. you know, the tories are doing such and such. and i said, what do you think of the lib dems? she said, oh, he's you know, he's having a good time isn't he. but she couldn't, she couldn't tell you what, you know, the greens were doing and others. and i think cutting through because of that, and i think ed's coming across as a real human being, which is really important in politics

i'iow. now. >> okay. all right, did you for vote sir ed davey as, as lib dem leader, yourself as a member, presumably. >> i voted for layla moran, but i've been very impressed with with ed's leadership. i must say, he's been so he's been very statesmanlike. i think in parliament. and then he's shown that other side to him through this election campaign. and i think it's nice to be able to show a more lighter side, too. yeah. and a side where, you know, he's actually exposed being a carer in his own life. and that's shown in our manifesto as well. >> lovely stuff. look, carl, thank you. and can i just say i would really love to have you back on actually . and we can, back on actually. and we can, you know, go into stuff in a bit more detail. it's great to meet you and great to have you on carl cashman there, who's the liberal democrat leader of liverpool council. we can now take you back to the spin room in grimsby with gb news political correspondent katherine forster, who i believe is with the shadow secretary of state for health. mr wes streeting. catherine, over to you . you. >> yes. hello, patrick. there

was a snap poll out, to according the yougov poll, starmer won this 64% to sunaks 36. let's talk now to shadow health secretary wes streeting. and you're obviously going to say that starmer won it too. but there is an issue of trust here, isn't there? because he did campaign twice to put jeremy corbyn into office, and he did make a load of pledges that he subsequently dropped. how can people trust him? >> well, firstly, people can see that not only is jeremy corbyn no longer a labour party member , no longer a labour party member, he's standing against the labour party at this election. i think that shows the extent to which keir starmer has changed the labour party genuine , only labour party genuine, only listened to why people lost trust and when he said he would tackle anti—semitism in the labour party and deal with those issues that led to people turn their backs on labour in huge numbers , the worst result since numbers, the worst result since 1935. he has delivered , and on

1935. he has delivered, and on the platform that he stood on to become labour leader again. not only have we been through loads of changes as a country since 2019, and the conservatives have done enormous damage to our economy since then. when keir said he would go and listen to people, genuinely listen as to why they rejected labour, he meant it. and as he's gone around the country , you know, around the country, you know, especially early on in his in his leadership, he wasn't popping his leadership, he wasn't popping in for a photo op, then dashing off again. he was spending days in places that had been traditional labour heartlands and had turned their backs on labour. really spending time with people to listen to, not just why they'd rejected laboun not just why they'd rejected labour, but what's going on in their lives. like what? what they want to see from their government, what they want to see from for their country . and see from for their country. and that's reflected in labour's platform for this election . and platform for this election. and it will be reflected in labour's plan, published in our manifesto tomorrow . so and plan, published in our manifesto tomorrow. so and i think the reason why kids did better than rishi sunak this evening wasn't just about the conservatives record, it was about someone who i think is fundamentally in

touch and really understands the challenges facing the country has changed the labour party and is ready to go if people give us permission at the next general election. >> and on brexit, he campaigned very hard for a second referendum and what do you say to people who voted leave who wonder whether brexit, as it stands , is safe with the labour stands, is safe with the labour party or if you might start trying to soften it? you've talked already about getting a closer relationship with the european union. >> well, that's question has been settled not just by the referendum, but two subsequent general elections . we've got the general elections. we've got the message and more than that , message and more than that, we're now looking to the future and thinking, well, how do we build a stronger, fairer, more equal society? how do we rebuild our economy? how do we rebuild our economy? how do we rebuild our public services? i don't think the last people, the last thing anyone would want is to relitigate that battle and i say that as someone who campaigned passionately for remain and disagree respectfully with

people who took a different decision, but ultimately , i decision, but ultimately, i respect that decision was taken. and if that referendum and those general elections have proven anything to people ahead of this general election is that voting does matter, voting does change things . and i urge people on things. and i urge people on july the 4th to use their vote to change our country. and the only way to do that is by voting labour and on the nhs, a huge amount of unhappiness , people amount of unhappiness, people waiting, horrendous amounts of times for ambulances, for operations . operations. >> but you're going to have your work cut out if you become health secretary, aren't you? and you're not going to give the doctors that 35. so how are you going to deal with the challenges that the nhs is facing? >> yeah, i thought that was one of the moments of the evening actually, that junior doctor who spoke up because keir was very honest about the fact that 35% is not something we can afford. and the junior doctor hit straight back saying, look, we get that. it's a journey to pay restoration that we want. and i thought, well, there's the opportunity actually to strike a deal opportunity actually to strike a deal, to break the deadlock on these strikes and to move

forward as a country. when rishi sunak was asked the same question, he tried to blame the junior doctor and blame the staff for the fact that nhs waiting lists have risen on his watch. that's not leadership , watch. that's not leadership, that's an abdication of leadership and i genuinely think , i'm sorry to say this, but i genuinely think that the reason why he hasn't resolved the junior doctors strikes is because junior doctors were useful scapegoat for him to blame for his failure on waiting list. we're looking for solutions, not scapegoats. we want to see an entity strikes. i actually think junior doctors want cnn to this strike. i'm confident we can find a deal. there's going to have to be a bit of give and take. and i also recognise that beyond pay, there are loads of other issues around the way junior doctors are treated in terms of their placements, their rotations, loads of things where we could make quite a big difference quite quickly to the working lives of junior doctors who , you lives of junior doctors who, you know, for me the big risk isn't they walk out of the nhs for another day of strike action. the big risk is they walk out of the nhs altogether. we cannot afford to lose these people and i think the country knows that. >> and just finally talking to

people , so many people just feel people, so many people just feel that they don't have faith in any politicians to deliver for them. they feel they've been let down by everybody for a long time . you're way ahead in the time. you're way ahead in the polls. you're probably going to be in power short of something incredible happening in the next three weeks. but there's no love for labour, is there? >> i totally accept the premise of your question, which is that trust in politics and politicians. is at rock bottom . politicians. is at rock bottom. i do not dispute that for a second. and as someone who's chosen to spend their life trying to make a difference in politics, i that's really tough to take, actually, because i genuinely think politics can be a force for good. that politics can't solve everything, but you can't solve everything, but you can't get a country moving forward without good politics. i asked people to when they look at our manifesto to judge us on the fact that every promise in there is fully costed and fully funded, a promise we can keep and the country can afford. and

when you hear people on tv or radio phone in saying, well, why haven't you included this, i want you to include that. why can't you spend more on this? that and the other? it is because we have been so disciplined , recognising that disciplined, recognising that firstly, there isn't a great deal of money going around , but deal of money going around, but secondly, there isn't a great deal of trust going around. and i'd much rather be in this room in four years time saying, do you know what we actually under promised? and we never delivered. we kept all of our promises and we did more than come back in four years time and say to gb news viewers, do you know, the problem is we've got a bit carried away. four years ago we were really ambitious and we've let you down like everyone else, like, so that's why the manifesto tomorrow and i can almost like see how the headline is going to be written. people are saying like, well, can't you promise more on this or more on that ? we've been disciplined and that? we've been disciplined and focused because we want people to be sure that the promises we make are promises that we can keep, and promises that families can afford at home. >> and just finally , i think sir >> and just finally, i think sir keir starmer said a comment about the first day we get into government. you're pretty sure

you've already won, haven't you? >> no, i'm really not. and neither is keir. by the way. i genuinely mean this. there are millions of undecided voters across the country right now. we've got to win people round. we're going to fight on the issues, fight on the fact that we've changed the labour party and that we're ready to change the country if we're given permission. i've been really encouraged by the polls, of course, and, you know , gb news course, and, you know, gb news viewers have been, you know, responding to those polls saying they're looking to labour, too. but i want everyone at home to know we do not take you for granted. we do not take your vote for granted . we are asking vote for granted. we are asking for your permission to govern our country , and we will pay our country, and we will pay that trust back with hard work and delivery if you give us a chance. but you only get that change if you vote for it. and i think that's why the tories are out today saying labour's won. they're going to get this whopping big mandate because they want people to think, oh, i'll stay at home, i won't bother, i'll vote for a smaller party because change is going to happen anyway. change only happens if you vote for it. and i urge people at home, especially people who are cynical about politics and politicians, please give change a chance to this election. if we

don't keep our promises, you can kick us out. but my goodness, look at the state of the country today. do not give the matches back to the arsonist to finish the job. >> shadow health secretary wes streeting, thank you very much indeed for talking to us on gb news. so he's asking you to give chase a chance. change the big word. of course, after 14 years. back to you, patrick. >> yeah. catherine thank you very, very much. katherine forster. there is just going to be, you know, grabbing politicians left, right and centre for us. so there we go, potentially an exclusive, although i'm pretty sure he misspoke there about whether or not a keir starmer government would go back to the polls in four years, not five. you did mention that a couple of times, but we'll let him off, talk about change. do you think this guy needs to change the record? does anyone know? can anyone tell me now what c'est alma's dad. did anyone, anyone? anyone >> would you personally be happy to pay more tax ? yes. to pay more tax? yes. >> of course. okay. i've. i've always paid my tax in full, but, you know, and i accept i earn a

lot of money in the job. i am now in. but when i grew up, my dad was a toolmaker. he worked in a factory. it's true. my mum was a nurse, and actually, we couldn't make ends meet, which actually isn't a laughing matter. we couldn't think it might be a bit of a laughing matter at this point, might be a bit of a laughing matter at this point , actually, matter at this point, actually, i do want to bring my panel back in, i just also want to talk to them a bit about this clip now, because it kicked off on private schools. and this for me was actually, i think keir starmer may be being confronted by the reality of his own dogma when it comes to private education. here it is . it is. >> so would you reconsider taxing private education? look let me be really clear about what we're doing here. >> i have nothing against private schools. i absolutely recognise that many parents work hard and save hard to send their children to private schools because they have aspiration for their children. in our state secondary schools, we've got thousands of teachers missing in the subjects that we need. so in a state secondary school, let's take maths. too many , students,

take maths. too many, students, young people, children are being taught by maths, by sports, teachers, by supply teachers. and that's not acceptable . and and that's not acceptable. and i'll be pressed when i say i'm going to recruit 6500 teachers. beth and others will say to me , beth and others will say to me, where's the money for that? >> yeah, indeed. well, where is the for money that? however, what that individual was saying to him now was he works bloody hard to send his child to a private school. and with that 20% hike, he's going to have to pull his kid out of school. but the rich are still going to be able to go. mark, i'll start with you. does he need to stop banging on about the fact his dad's a toolmaker? and has he absolutely shafted load of middle class people when it comes to private schools? >> yeah, the toolmaker thing. i mean, i mean, i don't know, actually the background details. it wasn't he didn't he own the factory or the warehouse or something? he wasn't he wasn't working over a lathe. it's a bit awkwardly owned. >> the people who made the tool. >> the people who made the tool. >> yeah, yeah, he was the boss man, i think, so, i mean, it just becomes tiresome. i do get bored of politicians trying to

show how humble their origins are, and especially these two men from rich ground on the schools thing. look, they're taking a huge gamble here that i think will backfire. i reckon this will end up costing the government money because the rich , the very rich can afford rich, the very rich can afford to keep sending their kids to eton be an extra burden. but they won't. they won't baulk at it . but those who are struggling it. but those who are struggling to afford private school fees now , maybe this is the tipping now, maybe this is the tipping point. school fees are price sensitive . you put the price up, sensitive. you put the price up, fewer people will pay it, and then those people will go into then those people will go into the state sector and act as a burden. >> you're shaking your head extremely not price sensitive. >> actually. private schools , >> actually. private schools, throughout the decades, for the last decade, they have raised their fees over and above inflation and yet the student numbers have changed very, very little. now here's my issue with the private school debate, right? all of these studies that you keep on getting, the only one, there is only one study that we keep on being hearing, being referenced about how many students are going to leave the private sector and they're going to go to the state school sector, and it is done by

private schools themselves. the only two independent studies we have are from the us, and they show almost no change, as theresa, about this case study. >> right here. >> right here. >> i'm sat here now. i think i'm the only one here with kids. i've got three children in private school. i work two jobs. i've got two businesses that help me do that. i am struggling to pay those school fees. i don't want no sympathy here. i chose to do that. now my three kids do not cost the taxpayer any money, even though i pay in for other places in state schools. i am now being forced because it's that tipping point. it's too just much now for me to afford. that's two kids, two girls that i'm taking out of private school and putting into the state system that now all of you have to pay for. it's going to cost this country and this government more money. >> we are we are going to come back from this. i will come back to you on this, stella, but i'm sorry for now because we just do have to fit a couple of other, you know, quite important things here. but i promise you, i will

come back to you on that, because i know you've got a lot to say. coming up. sunak. keir starmer at faced up to the people of grimsby. look, who do you think came out better? >> you seem more like a political robot. how are you? how are you going to convince others like me to vote for you? >> well, the most look. >> well, the most look. >> yeah. all right. but despite that, 64% of said in a snap poll that, 64% of said in a snap poll that starmer won. plus, should they all i have decided we are not going to take it any longer. >> we're going to fight back and we're going to win. >> should they have been hearing from that man? reform are surging in the polls. nigel farage is threatening to gatecrash future tv debates. i will be joined by ann widdecombe in the studio very, very shortly and we're going to be hearing a little bit from rishi sunak as well. and we'll be back in the nerve

yes. welcome back to patrick christys tonight. now, there was a glaring omission from the leaders event this evening, wasn't there? polling released yesterday by yougov has reform uk just a single point behind the conservatives. and should reform overtake the tories. their leader, nigel farage, will demand to be included in future televised debates between rishi sunak and sir keir starmer. well, farage has declared that this is the immigration election. it was a key issue for the people of grimsby, wasn't it? >> we've done it already started detaining people. airfields on standby. planes are booked . the standby. planes are booked. the date for the first flight is out on the 24th. i think it is of july. and the important point here is this is about establishing a deterrent, because i believe that if people come here illegally, they shouldn't be able to stay. we need to have somewhere safe to remove them. and that's how we will stop the boats. and that's what rwanda is about. pm and widdecombe joins me now. >> and what do you make of that? got a round of applause. didn't he talk about rwanda, we've been heanng

he talk about rwanda, we've been hearing about rwanda for how long now? nearly two years. and it hasn't happened. and what i object to is not that he's pursued the rwanda plan. that's fine , but that there's never fine, but that there's never been any plan b , so all the time been any plan b, so all the time that he's been pursuing and failing to deliver the rwanda plan, thousands of illegal immigrants have been turning up on our shores almost daily. no no plan b, just rwanda. rwanda. rwanda. and it still hasn't happened. and it's all very well to a book. the planes. this is where the lawyers. >> well indeed. and it's actually on that bombshell today it's a story broke alleging that people who had been slated to go to rwanda have actually been released on immigration bail. their lawyers were saying. so that actually does strongly imply that that people behind the scenes do not think any flights are going to take off. >> and how many of them will wait around for those flights, you know, if they're released and they can go where they like, which they will, in it, they're not going to wait for the flights. but that is beside the

point. the real point is he's never got the scheme off the ground. there's no guarantee it's ever going to get off the ground. and yet he's done nothing else at all. >> what is reform's deterrent, though? because you say rwanda won't work and it's all well and good. let's just say on on day one, you know, nigel farage personally turned some boats back and people stopped coming. you know, we've still got hundreds of thousands of people who arrived here illegally. i mean, what are you doing about that? >> well, the first thing we've got to do is to stop the flow of people coming here. so that's why we're putting an emphasis on stop the boats. we've got to stop the boats. we've got to stop that before we can start to clear up the mess that we've already got here. we do have a plan b if boats get through and some will. i mean, that's just an inevitable we shall automatically detain people in secure reception centres. they won't be in hotels able to come and go , and but as far as those and go, and but as far as those who are already here and you're quite right, you know, the problem has been growing on an almost daily basis because of rishi's failure to have any plan, therefore, we are going to

have to speed up the processes and would you just ignore international law and just get them on a plane somewhere? >> i don't think you ignore international law, but on the other hand, you know, echr recommendations are just that, you know, and an awful lot of theirjudgements you know, and an awful lot of their judgements are you know, and an awful lot of theirjudgements are not their judgements are not implemented by an awful lot of other countries. >> we're just over conscientious i >> -- >> okay. >> okay. >> all right. now, rishi sunak was held to account a bit on his actual five pledges as well. i think we can play a little bit of that now. >> promise. number three, reducing national debt. it's gone up since you made the pledge, hasn't it? it has. yes. yeah, but it was it was always meant to come down over time. >> and that was always the time. >> and that was always the time. >> i know, but but what was it when you made the pledge ? when you made the pledge? >> but we measure our debt according to independent and independent body measures, harder now than it was when you made the pledge. >> right . made the pledge. >> right. it's higher. >> right. it's higher. >> it was always forecast to be high. let me be clear, beth. i was i was never saying it would come down overnight. >> is there not some truth? and to the idea that rishi sunak is

going to get a much tougher ride here than keir starmer because he's got more to be accountable for, because he's been in office? that's absolutely true. >> you know, the government has a record. starmer has no record at all because he hasn't been prime minister and he hasn't been driving the policy over the last 14 years. so you're quite right there. but that always appues right there. but that always applies to whoever the prime minister is. you know, he's always going to have a harder time because people can say, well, hang on, you say this, why haven't you done it? you know, why are you waiting now, till now? >> and should nigel be involved in these debates or is it just an upstart party? it would be a spasm. according to the polls. so i've heard. >> well, if we're a spasm, we've been pretty consistently on the rise now over a very long time. and we're now just one point behind the conservatives. that means that if we overtake them, we'd be the effective opposition. so of course, nigel should be involved in the debates. >> okay. as i understand it, there is another leadership debate taking place, i think, oh , look, i mean, they're all the time now, but they've gone for the snp over reform, which i

find bonkers. but, there there is , there was one slightly odd is, there was one slightly odd thing that rishi sunak said about why people should like him more, and i think we can we can play more, and i think we can we can play it now . play it now. >> well, actually, funnily enough, people seem to think i have a very kind of healthy lifestyle and i go to the gym and the obsession about my fasting , but and the obsession about my fasting, but i and the obsession about my fasting , but i actually have an fasting, but i actually have an appalling diet because i eat an enormous amount of sugar and i'm very unhealthy in that regard, which i was talking to someone today about. >> i do wonder whether he thought looking at a room full of people in grimsby and saying they should like him because he has an appalling diet was wise. >> i don't think it's remotely wise. i also think it's rather silly. you know, all that actually matters is who is going to run this country better and who's got the right policies and that's what we should be talking about. >> okay, so the fact that he dnnks >> okay, so the fact that he drinks full fat coke doesn't bother you. >> the fact that he drinks full fat coke, i drink full fat coke. >> well, he got some. >> well, he got some. >> i show it rather more than he does. >> that's why i will not have that. >> thank you very, very much. that's a wonderful. i'm welcome, i've got loads more coming up.

grant shapps has sent out a warning to the electorate, and i'll take you back to the spin room. we are right in the heart of the action. there's no need to go anywhere else. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> evening time for your latest weather from the met office here on gb news. for many of us it's been a fine day today. tomorrow a very different story, a cold start and then it'll turn wet . start and then it'll turn wet. and particularly in the west, very windy. here's the reason why . a couple of sets of weather why. a couple of sets of weather fronts coming in from the atlantic ahead of that, we've had a ridge of high pressure, which, as i said, has brought most of us a fine day. still 1 or 2 showers over northeast scotland and eastern england, but they are fading away. and generally it's going to be a dry night with some lengthy clear spells. and that's why it's going to turn chilly temperatures well down into single digits, even in towns and cities, and some rural spots even lower . so yes, another even lower. so yes, another pretty fresh start tomorrow .

pretty fresh start tomorrow. generally a dry and a bright start, but not everywhere here comes the rain trickling in towards northern ireland and west wales, along with southwest england, so rapidly clouding overin england, so rapidly clouding over in the southwest through the morning. much of the midlands and eastern england will start dry. and so, you know, with a bit of sunshine, temperatures will soon start to lift. but turning wet across northern ireland, it's going to be a soggy day here. increasingly windy to most of scotland will start dry again, though a cold start here and then steadily as we go through then steadily as we go through the day, the cloud and the rain across northern ireland will start to spread its way into southwest scotland, up towards the central belt. the rain drifting into wales and southwest england by lunchtime and then through the afternoon, some of that rain getting into northern england and the midlands. much of eastern england will stay dry through most of the day , along with most of the day, along with northern scotland, but in the west, not only turning wet but also windy. unusually windy around these western coasts through the afternoon. again feeling pretty cool, particularly with the wet and the windy weather that's moved across northern scotland for

friday, where it may well linger elsewhere on friday. it's a blustery, gusty day with, yes, some decent spells of sunshine, but a whole raft of showers. so very changeable through friday. one minute it's dry, the next minute you've got a downpour and that showery picture continuing into the weekend and staying on the cool side looks like things are heating up. >> boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> it's 10 pm. i'm patrick christys tonight. or is in a no position to lecture anyone about tax rises . tax rises. >> we've got the highest tax burden . burden. >> they shouldn't be able to stay. we need to have somewhere safe to remove them. and that's how we will stop the boats . how we will stop the boats. >> i have got the very best bits of starmer and sunak as they

face questions from the great british public. plus i will be live in the spin room with the top tories and leading labour voices as they try to sell their main man to you, the voter. the public's verdict . it is starmer. public's verdict. it is starmer. yes, that's right, 64% of people who watch that leadership event thought that starmer won, and the greens have released their manifesto investment in nuclear weapons is not a good use of pubuc weapons is not a good use of public funds. >> there are some incredibly wacky things in that manifesto. >> i look forward to bringing that to you. you will not be disappointed. and also, do you remember this flights removing illegal migrants will depart in july . well, i've got some july. well, i've got some information for you that appears to indicate that loads of illegal migrants have just been set free. who would have thought it on my panel tonight is the director of popular conservatives, mark littlewood, landlord and activist adam brooks and ex labour party adviser stella kidu. oh yes. and can you spot what's wrong with

this picture? can we keep it on the screen for a sec? yeah, there we go. anyone? anyone spot. what's wrong with that picture? well, i'll be telling you all about that shortly. get ready. britain. here we go. we get right in amongst it as the battle for number 10 heats up. that's . next. up. that's. next. >> the top story from the newsroom tonight. prime minister and the labour leader have faced and the labour leader have faced a tv q&a tonight ahead of the release of labour's electoral manifesto tomorrow. during the programme , sir keir starmer said programme, sir keir starmer said that his party's manifesto will focus on wealth creation, adding there'd be no tax rises for working people. >> nothing requires us to raise tax and i'll tell you , no, no, i tax and i'll tell you, no, no, i do want i challenge me and i want to deal with this. i want to do things differently. i want

to do things differently. i want to grow our economy . i accept to grow our economy. i accept that previous labour leaders have sort of pulled the tax lever every single time and dnven lever every single time and driven up spending . i want to driven up spending. i want to grow our economy. the manifesto tomorrow will be a manifesto, a plan for wealth creation . now, plan for wealth creation. now, you may not hear a labour leader say that very often, but for me thatis say that very often, but for me that is the most important thing. and i want. therefore, i'm not going to do what other labour leaders have done and be tempted to simply say, every time we're going to pull the tax lever, we're not going to do that. >> well. rishi sunak was quizzed on migration and the nhs, in which he admitted the conservatives had not made as much progress on cutting waiting lists as he would have liked. he also accepted that immigration levels are too high, but vowed the government's flagship rwanda plan will work. >> we've done is already started detaining people, airfields on standby planes have booked the date for the first flight is out on the 24th. i think it is of july. and the important point here is this is about establishing a deterrent, because i believe that if people come here illegally, they shouldn't be able to stay. we

need to have somewhere safe to remove them . and that's how we remove them. and that's how we will stop the boats. and that's what rwanda is about. >> well, earlier on today, rishi sunak insisted he hasn't given up hope of winning the election, but he has warned voters not to give labour a blank check . the give labour a blank check. the prime minister was campaigning at a school in north east lincolnshire today as new figures showed the economy recorded no growth in april. that's something of a setback after his recent claim that britain's economy had turned a corner . the tories pointed to corner. the tories pointed to figures that showed there was growth in the months before april. but the lib dems said rishi sunak had utterly failed to deliver on his promises. two men have denied chopping down the famous sycamore gap tree at hadrian's wall last year. the famous sycamore gap tree at hadrian's wall last year . 31 hadrian's wall last year. 31 year old adam carruthers is accused of causing £622,000 worth of damage when the tree was felled. a second man, 38 year old daniel graham, was unavoidable , detained and didn't

unavoidable, detained and didn't appearin unavoidable, detained and didn't appear in court today, but has previously entered a not guilty plea. the tree was a popular attraction for visitors and stood in a dramatic dip in northumberland for more than two centuries until it was cut down in september, sparking a national outcry . and just national outcry. and just lastly, cctv footage has emerged of a man caught stealing a victorian brass eagle lectern worth £6,000 from a church in edgbaston, near birmingham . the edgbaston, near birmingham. the lectern is thought to date back to 1868, which is when the church officially opened . if church officially opened. if you're watching on television, you're watching on television, you can see the thief as he approaches the lectern, removes it from the column and then covers it in a blanket before calmly leaving the church. west midlands police are investigating what happened in just two minutes in broad daylight . that's the news. for gb ne daylight. that's the news. for gb ne

code. daylight. that's the news. for gb ne code . on. code. on. >> welcome along. tonight there was another showdown between rishi sunak and keir starmer. let's start with rishi sunak . let's start with rishi sunak. zahawi. he seemed to get the backing of the grimsby audience over his rwanda plan. >> we've done is already started detaining people. airfields on standby, planes have booked . the standby, planes have booked. the date for the first flight is out on the 24th. i think it is of july and the important point here is this is about establishing a deterrent, because i believe that if people come here illegally, they shouldn't be able to stay. we need to have somewhere safe to remove them. and that's how we will stop the boats. and that's what rwanda is about. >> he was then asked, well, look, hang on a minute. if you're so convinced that that's the date, then why don't you call an election for before that date? which i think is actually quite a good question. keir starmer, meanwhile, said that he wouldn't offer false promises like the tories. >> i think people are fed up with politicians who before the election say we'll do everything

and then after the election they don't. but the easiest thing in the world is what rishi sunak is doing is to simply say you can have everything. unfunded commitments and unfunded promises. that's what got us into this problem in the first place. and working people are paying place. and working people are paying the price with higher bills , their mortgages. i'm not bills, their mortgages. i'm not prepared to have a labour government ever make that mistake again. keir >> he then proceeded to say that one of the only reasons he backed jeremy corbyn was because he didn't think he was ever going to win, and that no wealth taxes will be created because we're going to grow the economy without really telling us how, he also said that a solution to the doctors strikes was to roll his sleeves up and have another crack in negotiations . so read crack in negotiations. so read into that what you will. rishi sunak actually did get heckled and booed, though, by the audience over his record on the nhs . nhs. >> i think you had you had a question earlier from i think there was a junior doctor here and i think everyone knows the impact the industrial action has had. that's why we haven't made as much doctors fault.

>> the. >> the. >> keir starmer, meanwhile, did seem to malfunction at this question. >> i admired how in touch you were with the public when you obviously a solicitor , and then obviously a solicitor, and then you became director of public prosecutions with cps . but over prosecutions with cps. but over the last year, i feel like you've formed into more of a politician than the person that i would have voted for to run the country. and you seem more like a political robot . how are like a political robot. how are you? how are you going to convince others like me to vote for you? >> well, the most look . >> well, the most look. >> well, the most look. >> yeah, okay. >> yeah, okay. >> you then proceeded to wheel out a couple of stock answers about his time as head of the cps . did you know by any chance, cps. did you know by any chance, what is dad did for a living? >> would you personally be happy to pay more tax? yes. >> of course. okay. i've i've always paid my tax in full, but, you know, and i accept i earn a lot of money in the job i am now

in. but when i grew up, my dad was a toolmaker. he worked in a factory. it's true. my mum was a nurse , and actually we couldn't nurse, and actually we couldn't make ends meet. which actually isn't a laughing matter. we couldn't, isn't it? >> and this is who the public, though, thought performed best. well, sir keir starmer came out on top. 64% of the public voted rishi sunak's 36. and i am quizzing you straight back over now to the beating heart of the action in the spin room in grimsby, where we are joined by gb news political correspondent katherine forster, who's been surrounded by top politicians. we've had wes streeting, we've had some other people as well. mark spencer, reliably informed, does not own a chain of supermarkets. catherine, who have you got with you now and what's happening ? what's happening? >> hello, patrick. well, beginning to thin out very slightly. still a lot of people knocking around , but some are knocking around, but some are starting to make their way to the labour bus to head off to the labour bus to head off to the labour bus to head off to the labour manifesto tomorrow. but let's talk now to patrick

english. he's a pollster at yougov. who better to talk us through that snap poll conducted mere minutes after the end of the debate. so patrick, talk us through what you found. >> so we've polled almost 2000 debate watchers, people who tuned in to the debate tonight and answered a poll immediately after it closed. and what we found is that among those who watched it, among the british debate, watching public, 64% said that keir starmer performed best versus 34% for rishi sunak. a real clear victory there for starmer and perhaps most crucially or most crushingly , crucially or most crushingly, for the prime minister, is that one third of those debate watchers who voted conservative in 2019 said that starmer won . in 2019 said that starmer won. >> that is bad news for rishi sunak. isn't it? and can you give us any more information in terms of specific issues within the debate, what voters felt about those? >> certainly we've had numbers streaming in all evening. we've got paper being thrust into my hands all across tonight, and we can say the debate watchers

thought that keir starmer came off as more trustworthy, more likeable , more in touch with likeable, more in touch with ordinary people and, very importantly, more prime ministerial. he also won on the issues of the nhs , issues facing issues of the nhs, issues facing young people, the economy not traditionally strong territory for labour and the only, let's say, silver lining, perhaps for the prime minister and rishi sunak, especially given the focus on this issue that the conservatives have put over the past week, is that they were tied on the issue of tax, so that one would say too close to call in terms of who performed better on tax. but really, that's the only bit of good news for the prime minister in the snap debate poll. >> so that tax line that they keep banging, despite the fact that the conservatives have raised tax to their highest level in 70 years, is paying off perhaps a little bit, but the polls seem the gap between labour and the conservatives about 20 points, seems to be set in stone. that's really unusual, isn't it? >> certainly, absolutely. history teaches that normally over campaigns. and as we move towards the election date , the towards the election date, the polls do tend to narrow leads do tend to shrink. and particularly governments tend to recover a

little bit when the question of who governs comes into play in vote intention polls. but at the minute we're just not seeing that. and that is unusual. >> why do you think that is? is it that simply, after 14 years of conservative government, a lot of voters have simply stopped listening to whatever the conservatives are offering? >> i think there's a large amount of that. yes, there is deep, deep public frustration with the conservative party right now with the prime minister their net favorability ratings are down in the minus 50s . now, let's let's be clear. 50s. now, let's let's be clear. it's not that the public is saying that they are really enthusiastic for labour or keir starmer. they're both polling in the sort of negative territory as well. but relatively speaking, they are so much better off than sunak and the conservatives. so i think a lot to do with why we're not seeing a shrink in the voting intention polls right now is because people have really made up their minds on these two parties and at the minute, relatively speaking, they're favouring keir starmer as prime minister over rishi sunak and the labour party's next government over the conservatives. at the moment, patrick english, thank you very much indeed for talking to us on gb news. >> so the prime minister needs a game changing moment. it doesn't

feel to most people in this room like that happened tonight, but three weeks still to the general election. we are at the halfway point now. it's only just three weeks since rishi sunak took that incredible decision to call a general election, stood out in the rain, three weeks to go back to you, patrick. >> yeah, absolutely. and catherine, can i just say thank you very, very much? not just for me, but i think from everyone here @gbnews for some wonderful performances tonight , wonderful performances tonight, doing some fantastic work. never easy when you're right in the heart of it. but you really, i think, given our viewers and listeners, a real sense of what it's like actually at the event, which is great stuff. so thank you. let's get the thoughts on my panel this evening. the director of popular conservatives, mark littlewood, businessman and activist adam brooks, and former labour party adviser, political commentator stella shawn seesahai . now there stella shawn seesahai. now there was a clip of sir keir starmer getting bogged down in the jeremy corbyn issue . now i'm

jeremy corbyn issue. now i'm keen to have a debate about this now with my panel. bear in mind that this is mr forensic. this is the man who, you know, he's all about supposedly honesty and integrity. i'm going to play this clip to you now, and i want to know what you think about it. this is sir keir starmer being asked about whether or not he ever really supported jeremy corbyn. >> you said i do think jeremy corbyn would make a great prime minister. jeremy corbyn, did you mean that? >> i was certain that we would lose the 2019 election? >> did you not mean it when you said it? >> i was certain that we would lose, and i think many other people were certain that we would lose. >> so you didn't mean it? >> so you didn't mean it? >> i was certain that we would lose that. >> you said that he would make a great prime minister now, will you actually say yes? i thought that or i didn't think that at the time. just just be honest . the time. just just be honest. >> i honestly didn't think that we had a chance of winning that. >> so you said it anyway, i. >> so you said it anyway, i. >> okay. all right. mark, i mean, what do you make of that

complete and utter nonsense? >> well, i'll tell you what will be happening in conservative campaign headquarters now. they'll be looking for clips of keir starmer in the 2019 election, saying i've got every confidence labour will win. he would have been asked endlessly. i can't remember all the interviews. do you think labour's got a good chance of winning this election? he was said yes. i'm feeling very optimistic. turns out now he honestly thought that labour didn't have a chance. so if the conservatives or a broadcaster can stack up, that clip of him saying, i never thought we had a snowball in hell's chance with a clip at the time of him saying, i actually think we've got every chance of winning, then his honesty and integrity points start to fall somewhat, don't they? >> this is stellar about honesty and integrity, isn't it? and how can he say that he's got any honesty and integrity? if he was, you know, out there backing jeremy corbyn, he won't answer a straight question on whether or not he did actually support him or thought he'd make a good prime minister. and now jeremy corbyn, out of the out of the labour party, jeremy corbyn is not even a member of the labour party right now.

>> i think that most of the voters will be looking at this and thinking, we've been talking about jeremy corbyn for such a long time. he's literally a ghost labour leader at this point. there are more important issues at stake at this election, whether jeremy corbyn becomes a member of parliament or not, i do not know whether he will get re—elected or not, but he's nowhere near the government i >> -- >> he's going to be very near keir starmer for a very long time. i mean, sir keir starmer is not next. we both know they're waiting for him. keir starmer went out and told us okay. >> and he's this is, this is doesit >> and he's this is, this is does it matter to you right now does it matter to you right now does about the honesty and integrity of the individual. >> that may well be our next prime minister. does it matter or not? he could sit in front of a live audience. there presumably of millions, and lie. >> so is it not enough proof for you? the fact that he didn't even let jeremy corbyn run as a labour leader is this not enough proof for you? the fact that he kicked out the former leader of the labour party? is it not enough proof for you that he has informed the party? >> he had no choice. >> he had no choice. >> he had plenty of choice. he took the. he took the nuclear. >> he spent two elections trying to make jeremy corbyn prime

minister. jeremy corbyn was prevented because of the british electorate. keir starmer used his good offices to try and make corbyn prime minister. >> also, let's also remember he didn't just say he would make a great prime minister. he also said that he was his friend. yeah, he called him his friend. now this is a man that he knew was sitting and leading a party that had an anti—semitism problem. and was proven by external organisations , external organisations, completely irrelevant. kemp. no it isn't. he campaigned to make a man that he didn't obviously trust . now he a man that he didn't obviously trust. now he didn't think would win as our prime minister that's unforgivable. >> kirsten was also grilled on the pledges that he made when he ran to become labour leader. and there were a lot more left wing than what he's saying now. they include things like scrapping tuition fees, etc. there was quite a lot in there, and beth rigby put it to him that actually a lot of that stuff now doesn't exist. his response was, i've decided to put country before party people. stellar might think that actually what that really translates as, he'll say whatever it takes to get elected.

>> no , it means i'm going. i'm >> no, it means i'm going. i'm going to listen to the voters, and i'm going to give voters what they want. have you ever seen a labour prime minister a labour mp, become prime minister without having to move to the centre, without having to appeal to, to, to to, voters across the political spectrum? how are you going to win political consensus if you don't do that? >> he respects voters so much that he campaigned for a second referendum during brexit that would have unwound 17.3 million votes. he obviously doesn't respect voters. >> okay, so, so it means nothing i >> -- >> let's, let's, let's just pick apart because in the next section i'm going to be doing a bit more on rishi sunak, by the way. but there was a big flashpoint here from from keir starmer on private schools. and i did say i would come back to this in the last hour. so i would really like to do that because there were some incredibly strong views about this on my panel tonight. and i know that there are some incredibly strong views about this in the living rooms of people who will be watching this. so here is an ordinary bloke, by the looks of things, just saying to keir starmer, look, i'm a normal chap, i can't

afford. if you hike up 20% in fees to send my kids to private school, here it is. here's the exchange. so private schools is not only for the rich. >> i mean, the rich would keep continue sending their children. it's us who would have to make the change. and the ultimate losers in all of this are the children who are meant to be our futures. yeah. so would you reconsider taxing private education? >> look, let me be really clear about what we're doing here. i have nothing against private schools. i absolutely recognise that many parents work hard and save hard to send their children to private schools because they have aspiration for their children. >> but this would mean that you would tax the working parents who send their children to private school, because the super rich will continue doing that. super rich will continue doing that . and it's only the working that. and it's only the working parents who will have to make a decision or pay the taxes. >> yeah. i mean , mark, i would >> yeah. i mean, mark, i would actually say that that for want of a better phrase that really did take quite a few boxes, it was keir starmer being confronted by a while, the

sounds of it, you know, an incredibly hardworking, aspirational ethnic minority individual who purely demographically might have traditionally voted for the labour party but is now staring down the barrel of their child getting a worse education as a result. >> yeah, this is exactly where the pinch points likely to be, isn't it? look, i'm presuming all sorts of things about this quy's all sorts of things about this guy's income, but he's presumably not a billionaire or a multi—millionaire. presumably not a billionaire or a multi—millionaire . he must be a multi—millionaire. he must be earning a reasonable whack to send his kids to private school. but it's that that's exactly where the problem is going to land. the super rich don't really need to worry about it. they can comfortably afford the 20% hike. those who have strived to make themselves better off have probably strived to make themselves better off, with half an eye on wanting to use that money to improve their kid's future. those are the people who are going to get whacked. now we're going to see in real time what the consequences of this are. but every kid who moves out of private school, paid for by their parents into the state sector, that's about 3 or £4000 a year extra for the taxpayer

per kid that does it. so every single person that moves you won't get any vat on the private school fees because they've pulled out and the taxpayer has to pay 3 or 4 grand a year. at some point, you get a crossover point where this hasn't just wrecked private schools, but it's actually ended up costing the taxpayer money. la la la la la la la. well, we're going to see in real time, aren't we? we're going to see what we've got to set here that are going to be taken out of private arade dam. >> i have every sympathy for you. i have every sympathy with that. father i want all of you to be able to put your kids in the best schools available for them. and i want these best schools to be state schools, because 93% of the population, 93% of pupils go to state school. do you go to state school. do you go to state school if this school is not good enough for you, did you go to say no? i didn't go to i didn't i didn't go to education, i didn't i went to private school country and i went to a private school. are we talking about the greek government now? >> well, no, but i think it's important, isn't it? >> i'd like more than i want to go to private schools. >> i'd like to increase that number. not decrease it. >> 93% of pupils go to a state

school and if that school is not good enough for them, you are telling them that they do not deserve a better education. and here's the thing per pupil spending has only just reached the 2010 levels that it was. capital spending is still lower for schools than it was in 2010. well, he's a great solution . well, he's a great solution. >> and the financial times, some of the people i'm sorry, mark, there are hard choices that need to be made. >> what is your heart soul? where are you going to cut spending? where are you going? >> here's my here's my hard choice. >> get more people into private schools . 7% is way too low. schools. 7% is way too low. let's try and get that figure up to 15 or 20 or 25. >> if you can get that. no, no, i'io. 110. >> no. >> you will then have the same amount of money to spend on fewer people in the state sector . you can get class sizes down. >> my kids coming out of private school and going into the state sector, it's going to cost the taxpayer . but also, sector, it's going to cost the taxpayer. but also, emily thornberry also admitted that it's going to increase class sizes. so my kids are going to make the education of others in that class worse. >> and of course, what are they? >> and of course, what are they? >> what are they doing ? can i

>> what are they doing? can i also just say you did mention there about tough choices needs to be made. and this was put to him, a tough choice that he could have made would be to increase a wealth tax. right. so he could potentially swerve having to make, you know, cuts to people going to private schools by increasing taxes for the wealthy. but he's chosen not to say that ahead of an election. instead, he has chosen to plunge more children into the state school sector. does keir starmer really care about some of the most vulnerable in society, especially those ones with special educational needs? we will return to this again . we will return to this again. but now the defence secretary grant shapps, raised eyebrows with these comments today. >> if you want to make sure that in this next government, >> if you want to make sure that in this next government , whoever in this next government, whoever forms it, that there's a proper system of accountability , then system of accountability, then we would argue that you want to make you don't want to have somebody receive supermajority. >> and in this case, of course , >> and in this case, of course, the concern would be that if keir starmer were to go into number 10, it will either be

rishi sunak or keir starmer. there's no other outcome to this election, and that power was in some way unchecked. it would be very bad news for people in this country . country. >> quite astonishing that really, rather than focus on clinging on to power, it sounds like the conservative party are now selling themselves as the strong opposition to a future labour government. i'm joined now to go head to head on this by the deputy editor of conservative home, henry hill, and the author and journalist rebecca reid. both of you thank you very, very much. henry. are i'll start with you. what right does grant shapps have to say? oh, look, you know, you need to vote for us to avoid a super labour majority. i mean, they've had 14 years to make that case. >> well, i mean, you'd hope that they weren't making that case in 2011, you know, they they'd hopefully have a stronger case to make about being government at that point. but this is a great case for a tory mp to make on the doorstep. right. and in fact, this is what i'm hearing from tory canvassers is that they're targeting not people who've gone to reform or labour,

because people who've already changed their mind probably aren't going to change it back. they're targeting the undecideds, people who have drifted away from the government. they're disenchanted tory voters, but they haven't picked someone else. and what this line does at a local level is it gives a voter a reason to vote for their mp, even if they don't want to endorse rishi sunak, even if they don't want to endorse the government. it's like, look, our guy is good. our local guy is good. but it's weird to hear it coming from the national campaign right? it's very strange because where do you go from here? rishi sunak in the debate was trying to frame the debate was trying to frame the choice as it's me or keir starmer that doesn't work . if starmer that doesn't work. if his own secretary of state for defence is saying that he's not really an option. >> yeah. no. exactly. rebecca, look, there is there is a case there is a case for saying this because we've already seen votes for kids, potentially more blokes in women's changing rooms as well under labour. we don't know what his plans are to grow the economy yet, but that is what it's all resting on. otherwise taxes are going to go up, which many people suspect they are anyway, and he doesn't seem to have a plan to get rid

of. the doctor strikes apart from rolling his sleeves up. so, i mean, there is a case to avoid a stonking labour majority, isn't there ? isn't there? >> of course, there's no case to avoid a stonking majority. >> we know that labour are going to win, and we know that having a majority enables you to go in with confidence with a more streamlined, efficient party and not end up in nitty gritty infighting. i didn't hear a word about there being too much of a majority in 2019, because of course, every leader wants to get a really, really significant majority. and the and it almost seems like grant shapps is sort of trying to swerve democracy by saying, well , we know how it saying, well, we know how it works when people have too many people voting for them. so don't vote for the party who will probably going to win. it's a bit of a loser mentality, i'm afraid. from grant shapps it sounds like he's competing for second place rather than competing for first place. i mean , he did literally sound mean, he did literally sound harry like he was competing for second place, that was that was very explicitly his argument. i think that really if you look at the current labour party, i've got no objection to big majorities in principle. right. like if your government wins

big, a government wins big. but there are there are downsides. although weirdly, i think they're almost the opposite downsides to what starmer is saying, because the way starmer is framing it is that, you know, you'll have this. shapps. sorry. is that you'll have this imperial keir. right? like unchecked, able to do whatever he likes. but i think in the next couple of years it'll actually turn out to be the opposite. because one thing, having a relatively small majority does is it disciplines your party. right? because they're staring. they can see they're staring. they can see the whites of the other side's eyes, and so they stick together. if he wins a really titanic majority on a relatively thin manifesto, and then life gets difficult for him. a year or two in and all of a sudden he's asking his mps to back policies they don't really like that weren't in the manifesto. it could be a party management nightmare if they think, right, we've got we've got an overall majority of 180 or whatever the polls are saying, but let's just have rebellion after rebellion. so there are there are downsides to big majorities. i'm not saying they're legitimate. there are serious downsides, but i think the government is almost going for the wrong ones. the

problem here is not that it will just lead to like untrammelled, strong government. i mean, frankly, that might be quite nice. no, the problem is that it could lead to just ill discipline and chaos if the initial starmer honeymoon wears off and he suddenly has no means off and he suddenly has no means of disciplining his mps. >> yeah, again, very astute point, and i will put that to you, rebecca. you know, i think when boris johnson won his 80 odd seats, who were, you know, all the noise was, what's this now another ten years of tory rule? i mean, they absolutely blew that. i mean, literally look at the conversation that we are having now three weeks away from an election that has been completely shattered and we don't know a huge amount about some of these new young radicals that might be coming up through the labour party and, and what they really stand for on a lot of issues. and actually, keir starmer could find himself being picked apart on things like negotiations with the unions, on things like what on earth is going to happen when it comes to state schools, on things like tax, on things, on where he stands with jeremy corbyn, on the gender issues, on israel , the gender issues, on israel, for goodness sake. i mean, he might have a job on his hands.

>> i mean, i don't think it will be any of the first half of what you just said, because i think they're pretty consistent in those things. the whole party is unhedin those things. the whole party is united in the state, in the state school argument, as they should be. i think there is a risk that the more divisive issues will be. israel and, gender and lgbtq+ issues . those gender and lgbtq+ issues. those things are tricky because you do have more left of centre people who are younger, traditionally coming through the party often who, have a demographic in their constituency who are predominantly muslim. so they have they owe a debt to their people who elected them to represent their views on israel—palestine . that is israel—palestine. that is absolutely going to be complicated for starmer. and i think at the moment, i sense that people have been very grown up in the party and they have put their personal opinions aside to get elected. i think he will put his personal opinions aside. >> i mean, he literally made that point today. you know, he has an ideology. he had a list of beliefs which he stood on, and he has seamlessly managed to ditch a load of those in order to try to get elected. look, we are going to have to knock this on the head, i'm afraid, guys,

but i do hope to get you both back on very, very soon. coming up, i've got a couple of interesting clips for you, one about keir starmer talking about his kids, which actually i thought was quite interesting and rishi sunak bizarre diet as well. but coming up, yes, 50 illegal migrants who were detained to be sent to rwanda have been freed on bail. but why? and let's be honest , have why? and let's be honest, have we got a flipping clue where any of them are? we'll reveal all in my press pack. but next, conservative candidate, dame andrea jenkins has brazenly left her own party leader, rishi sunak , out of her campaign sunak, out of her campaign document in favour of reform uk leader nigel farage. so have the tories truly given up on the minister? find out a more and i will have a couple more and i will have a couple more of

okay. welcome back to patrick christys. now, now. very shortly , i'm going to be revealing to you the first of tomorrow's front pages. some interesting ones here, but before that, i just wanted to show you a clip that you may well have missed

from a couple, actually, from this, discussion that happened earlier this election event. and this is keir starmer being asked what he fears most about being potentially prime minister. quite interesting answer. let's have a listen. >> oh, the only real fear i suppose i have is for my family. and my only fear really is the impact it's going to have on them. that's why we never name them. that's why we never name them in public, never have a photoshoot with them. i want them to be able to walk to school and have their own lives. i don't fear the big decisions . i don't fear the big decisions. >> yeah, i thought that was quite interesting. answer that i must say, i think i think that's something everyone can relate to really, isn't it that idea of wanting to try to keep your kids out of the limelight? although it must be said that one of tony blair's sons has done rather well out of his dad being prime minister, isn't it? i think you and but, let's just whiz ourselves over now to rishi sunak was asked a similar kind of like not a fluff question, but one of those kind of ones that might have made theresa may start talking about fields of wheat. right. and this was him

asking, being asked basically why why should like him ? why why should like him? >> well, actually, funnily enough, people seem to think i have a very kind of healthy lifestyle. and i go to the gym and the obsession about my fasting, but i actually have an appalling diet because i eat an enormous amount of sugar , and enormous amount of sugar, and i'm very unhealthy in that regard, which i was talking to someone today about. they were completely shocked. i'm not sure that's not really something that someone needs to like me, more or less, but that's something. i was talking to someone today and they they genuinely surprised about the amount of haribos twixes and everything else that i get through, particularly dunng i get through, particularly during a campaign so contrary , during a campaign so contrary, contrary to popular belief, i don't have that healthier lifestyle or diet. >> okay, a bit weird, i thought. i'm not trying to do him down here, but i think going off the line of you should like me because i eat like i don't want to live anymore is a bit ridiculous. i mean, sorry, what's the point of that? betty goes private when he gets diabetes, doesn't he? but that's with you through some of the front pages, shall we? without further dither and delay, we go to the metro. i lost my whole

family in e—bike explosion, a father whose partner and children died in a fire after an e—bike battery exploded has called for urgent safety measures at these e—bike explosions, by the way, seems to be happening a heck of a lot. let's go to the daily telegraph. starmer paves the way for tax rises. manifesto will not rule out increasing capital gains, fuel duty or council tax, we've also got a really interesting story here actually. and this is this is i mean, hilarious, right . so a chap called craig williams who was rishi sunak's aide, he's also i believe, yes he is. well i won't tell you where he is running, but anyway, he bought £100 on a july election three days before it was announced. and now he's being investigated by the gambling commission. he denies any wrongdoing. i just think that's absolutely hilarious, let's go to the daily mail. a tory wipe—out risks one party socialist state as starmer squirms in tv debate over corbyn

and tax hikes , mps warn about and tax hikes, mps warn about handing him a super majority again. the i labour set to announce big cuts to public services in the uk. labour is braced to announce significant spending cuts in many whitehall departments. if the party wins power , the manifesto, which we power, the manifesto, which we will be picking apart tomorrow, will be picking apart tomorrow, will not include new spending promises. rachel reeves will be forced to make really difficult decisions. yeah, we do await that manifesto . the guardian that manifesto. the guardian sunak i'd bet on election day before announcement. so there we go. that's was it. on over to my wonderful panel. shall we? and i am joined by the director of popular conservatives, mark littlewood for scott, adam brooks as well of course, who is a landlord and activist, and stella shawn seesahai, who is former labour party adviser and political commentator. so where to start when it comes to all of this? i mean, i think rishi sunakis this? i mean, i think rishi sunak is now facing fresh pressure, though, isn't he, over his decision to skip part of the d—day commemorations after he

appeared to blame the events for making him late for this itv interview . look strong views on interview. look strong views on either side of this. i'm going to play this to you, i want to see your reaction. >> prime minister. >> prime minister. >> hello, good to see you. >> hello, good to see you. >> very nice to see you. sorry to have kept you. >> no, not at all. i know you've beenin >> no, not at all. i know you've been in normandy. yeah. >> it will just ran out. there was, of course, incredible, but it just ran over everything. >> i'm sure it was. so apologies for keeping you. >> no, not at all. i'm sure it was a powerful trip. i mean, so pertinent as well this year, you know, considering what's happenedin know, considering what's happened in ukraine, which i haven't seen president biden's remarks, but i think that's kind of the echo, i think. yeah did you get to meet any of the veterans or were you. oh, no. no. got to do the ceremonial lots over yesterday and today. >> yeah. i've already spoke to almost everyone that was there, i hope. >> okay. i think it was a catastrophically bad decision, as i think most people do for him to leave d—day early. however i don't think he did anything wrong there. i think itv have decided to put that out, in an unguarded moment. i don't think anyone thought. certainly not rishi sunak thought would actually see our

time. and can i just politely suggest to anyone who's, if he's got advisers, because i remain resolutely unsure that the prime minister actually has any at this point in time. but that is what you get if you decide to leave a d—day ceremony early and go and be interviewed by the man who won awards for the partygate scandal, and i think i'm right in saying help to get rishi sunak some form of criminal issue as well over all of that, thatis issue as well over all of that, that is what you get. are you surprised nobody else is . anyone surprised nobody else is. anyone could have told you that. but anyway, the trouble didn't end there for mr sunak after he was asked about his wealth and whether he'd made any sacrifices , his went out with lots of things, right, because my parents wanted to put everything into our education and that was a priority. >> so what sort of things had to be sacrificed? lots of things, right? i mean, give me an example. >> all sorts of things , like >> all sorts of things, like lots of people. there'll be all sorts of things that i would have wanted as a kid that i couldn't have. right? famously, sky tv . sky tv. >> so just say time with my dad and mum because they were working all the time , and the

working all the time, and the fact that he had to sacrifice his weekends to go and help out in the pharmacy, which is why he thinks national service is such a good idea, because he used to have to do it in a way. it's not hard. who's advising this guy, mark. >> yeah, look, it's difficult this one, especially when he says , oh, lots of things. lots says, oh, lots of things. lots of things. and you can see the wheels whirring in his brain as he desperately tries to think of something, knowing that he can't say, oh, i went without food for several weeks or something. he should have. he should have just said, i mean, i should actually say, having sat through with the rest of you, that sky tv debate for the best part of an hour and a half, i'm not sure not having sky would be any form of probation at all. god, it was painful , but probation at all. god, it was painful, but what he should have said and i wish we would do this more. it goes back to the starmer. my dad was a toolmaker. point everybody in this country is embarrassed about being rich and successful . starmer is from and successful. starmer is from and successful. starmer is from a rich and successful family. sunakis a rich and successful family. sunak is from a rich and successful family. so i think the correct answer should have been, look, actually i didn't have to do with that very much. my have to do with that very much. my parents worked damn hard, were very successful . therefore

were very successful. therefore i had a fantastic upbringing and i had a fantastic upbringing and i want to give that opportunity to many more young people in britain . but i make no apologies britain. but i make no apologies for being affluent. >> i've said it on this channel many, many times. the political advisors in this country , we are advisors in this country, we are so far removed from the average man or woman . it is man or woman. it is embarrassing. i mean, i've said things on here, you know, and they've come true and everyone on twitter and they're saying, no , you don't know best. they no, you don't know best. they the mps know best the political advisors know best. no, the people on the ground can see what's happening. they live every day, lives . they know what every day, lives. they know what life is about. they know what struggles are about. sunak doesn't and, you know, he has got political advisers and they're stupid. >> well, well, i mean, it's difficult to argue with that. stella, are you bothered about him having to go without sky tv? i mean, do you think i was particularly do you think that was particularly catastrophic? or is it being blown up into a much bigger thing by, you know,

what some people might regard really as and not paul brown from itv would obviously deny this. and he's won awards and he's respected and he's achieved by a lot of people's metrics, a huge amount more than i probably ever will. but some people might regard him as having a little bit of an agenda against the conservative party i also didn't have sky tv when i was growing up, but do you know why, no , up, but do you know why, no, because i wasn't raised here, right? >> i was born in greece. sorry. okay. >> all right. fine. >> all right. fine. >> you have the greek equivalent. i was the greek wriggling out of the. no, no, we didn't. we didn't. >> greece. greece was ten years behind on all of these things . behind on all of these things. anyway, back to rishi sunak, though. he's running to be prime minister i am not yet. yeah, so be happy about that. i think that it just shows how talentless and uncharismatic he is. like it's incredible. if he can't answer a question like that. and i'm going to say about keir starmer as well about him as well, i also don't like the way he answered the toolmakers questions during the debate that do wish they were, they were being a bit more honest. i agree

with you, mark. actually, i don't think there is anything wrong with saying i was, i was i was raised in a very wealthy environment and i did the best i could with it, and now i want to help everyone else. >> that's it's i think it's actually very patronising that they think that in order to be popular with people, they have to say that, you know, i pretend to say that, you know, i pretend to be poor. yeah i struggle to, yeah, i was working down. i was working down the pit at four years old. i used to look at a biscuit for breakfast, lick it for lunch and then maybe have a nibble on it for dinner. >> he walked into a trap there. let's be honest, that was a trap. and he walked straight into it. >> he did. no no no no. have conservative mps completely given up on their leader? well, it appears that staunch boris johnson ally, former education minister andrea jenkyns , might minister andrea jenkyns, might have done so after she made some interesting editorial choices on her election leaflet. now, you might spot that there is no sign of rishi sunak there, but there's another party leader features not once, but twice. yes, it's , nigel farage, isn't yes, it's, nigel farage, isn't it? a spokesman for miss andrea jenkins, dame andrea jenkins, has said for the avoidance of

any doubt, andrea is a lifelong conservative and is standing for the conservative party in the forthcoming election. she also committed to promoting low tax, common sense conservatism . and common sense conservatism. and i'm going to read you a full list of those who have declared their candidacy in her seat, which andrea jenkins of the conservatives mark suez for the labour party, james kendall for reform uk, michael fox for the lib dems, chris bell for the green party, howard graham jus for the yorkshire party and nigel parry for the social democratic party. and but just on that, i mean, the idea that you would have a conservative candidate, using nigel farage on their literature when there's a reform party candidate standing in the same seat, i find that quite. >> yeah, it's strange, patrick, but it goes back to the gb news poll you showed us earlier, the conservatives on what was it, 19% and reform on 17. if you are a conservative candidate who has quite a lot in common with the reform party manifesto, you would be nuts not to try and

hoover up that vote. yeah, and i don't know the ins and outs of andrea jenkins seat, but you can completely understand why she is appealing to people who are going to the reform side. it's painful for me as somebody who's sympathetic to both those two parties, i'm a conservative myself. that they haven't worked together. and obviously if there had been some sort of electoral pact, those leaflets would be commonplace . rather than andrea commonplace. rather than andrea jenkins having to be imaginative. create one. >> all right. look, we're going to come back to this, all right? but coming up, yes, 50 migrants who were detained for removal to rwanda have been freed on bail. now, you can read into that what you will. i am choosing to mean that they are now just absconding, because i think that's quite fair enough, actually. but why have they been released on bail? plus, what happens next . released on bail? plus, what happens next. here? yes. released on bail? plus, what happens next . here? yes. okay. i happens next. here? yes. okay. i will reveal all. but before of that, i will deliver some more of

welcome back to patrick christys. tonight, i've got some more front pages for you. let's do it . all right. okay, so the do it. all right. okay, so the daily mirror , our year of hell daily mirror, our year of hell family blown apart by triple killing last june. this is the nottingham stabbing victims. okay i still switch on my barnaby's light each night. grace is my hero. they were more than pals. yeah, this is obviously the, mother is emma webber of barnaby. obviously the, mother is emma webber of barnaby . there he was webber of barnaby. there he was sadly killed. slaughtered? really? by valdo calocane . let's really? by valdo calocane. let's go to the times. growth and prosperity are priority, say starmer. that's they're leading with the headline of keir starmer saying that he's going to go for growth and saying that he wants wealth creation. so, you know, people can believe that or not, i suppose. but we will have the labour party manifesto tomorrow, won't we? but something that we know has happened, is this issue when it comes to migrants that were scheduled for deportation . so scheduled for deportation. so dozens of illegal migrants who

were detained ready for deportation to rwanda have been freed on bail? that's according to lawyers. duncan lewis, solicitors said it represents 50 people being held ahead of removal flights . the government removal flights. the government wants to see take off in july, but the law firm has now said that many clients are survivors of torture and trafficking . the of torture and trafficking. the tribunal, in granting bail, rightly assessed them to not carry a risk of absconding, reaching the rational view that removal was not imminent. so they now have obviously been released essentially free, their detention and certainly not imminent after the prime minister's announcement. so look, basically it's this idea , look, basically it's this idea, isn't it? did anyone ever actually think that any of them were going to go to rwanda? adam look, we live in a country where illegal immigrants and criminals seem to have more rights than the everyday man and woman. >> as if i'm a migrant, illegal migrant here and i'm released on bail and i could be going to rwanda , i'm absconding and

rwanda, i'm absconding and i think most people would . yeah. think most people would. yeah. the we can't even track terrorists. risks in this country, let alone 50 illegal immigrants that are obviously going to go and do a runner. you know, they're saying they're going to monitor them. that is just, you know, that is that's i mean , that that clearly is, mean, that that clearly is, a massive slap in the face for the government. >> if there was any risk of them getting on a flight in july, there's no way they'd have been told to just disappear. >> i think that it is very important for the public to be able to accept legal immigration. >> it is we don't want to accept illegal immigration, legal, legal, immigration, o illegal immigration, legal, legal, immigration, 0 legal. >> i think it is very important that illegal immigration is stamped out and that the public and the voters don't feel like, people can get away with coming here illegally. >> yeah, but this is what that is, isn't it? >> yeah. so i think it is. i think that this is very bad optics. i think this is very bad for rishi sunak. i do not think that it's a good excuse for him to say, oh, we have the general

election and if we are the government, then the rwanda flights will lift off, because frankly, before the rwanda policy, this was still a problem. so and the rwanda policy was only going to tackle less than 2% of asylum seekers. yeah so still you need to have a deterrent. >> you would theory was that it was it was a deterrent. can i just whiz us through something else. because this this did, for what it's worth, land today, this is the manifesto of the green party. and it was a hove's cricket ground earlier today. their policies scrapping trident. so arson, nuclear weapons , ending immigration weapons, ending immigration detention, giving 16 year olds the vote, a four day working week legalise assisted dying and of course removing all oil and gas subsidies. so no nukes, have at it. when it comes to the old border situation, basically guys as well, we might as well all just crack on. why bother having borders and give kids the vote, and yeah, i mean, why not, half of that, though, concerning lee appears to be things that the

labour party either wants to do or did used to want to do so again. but now they're all wild scenes, cincinnati baseball game last night, as an understandably bored fan paid the price for invading the pitch. we have a look at what happened to this chap. look at what happened to this chap . yeah, yeah . on day chap. yeah, yeah. on day. got tasered because you couldn't. couldn't make that out. i've just about got time to reveal today's greatest britain and union jackass. all right, let's rattle through this then, people. mark, who's your greatest britin? >> andre ? the us cricket team. >> andre? the us cricket team. not a big cricket man. myself but they beat a few days ago pakistan in a super over. unbelievable turn up for the books. unbelievable turn up for the books . cricket's coming home to books. cricket's coming home to the usa. well done. >> america's coming home. fantastic. all right, go on. >> mine's honouree and it's all the anthony glees voters in the

eu that have signalled to the world that people have had enough of mass immigration. okay >> go on. »- >> go on. >> stella jvt sunak, which is, rishi sunak father, because he gave us this golden moment of comedic relief amidst a pretty bleak interview. and for that, we have to thank him. thank you for not letting rishi sunak have sky or let us. what would he have responded? >> okay. all right, all right . >> okay. all right, all right. the winner is the anti—globalist voters in the eu. it was always going to be that, wasn't it? let's go to the union jackasses i'iow. now. >> so again honouree, this is the danish veterinary and food . the danish veterinary and food. >> it's negotiation. this is a bit niche, but this is we talk aboutin bit niche, but this is we talk about in britain nanny statism, going mad. the danish veterinary and food administration have banned a whole series of noodles in denmark because they're too spicy . now, i'm not in denmark because they're too spicy. now, i'm not i'm not in denmark because they're too spicy . now, i'm not i'm not too spicy. now, i'm not i'm not too spicy, too hot. you know. so this is a south korean outfit. i

mean , this sort of stuff could mean, this sort of stuff could be coming to us soon if labour goes full blown nanny state, they might ban the vindaloo or something. this is about roughly what the danish food and veterinary kind of damage was not doing to the danish sewage system that they answered . system that they answered. >> they had to burn all their carbon. >> zero. >> zero. >> my, jackass , is the british >> my, jackass, is the british justice system that has somehow allowed the golders green knife attacker gabriel abdullah, to remain a free man. >> yeah, absolutely. we covered that. we have to be quite quick. >> honorary elon musk for making likes on x private . how are we likes on x private. how are we going to spy on people? how are we going to cancel politicians if we don't know who they liked. >> we don't know if they've been liking really dodgy stuff. i know, i know, but anyway, there we go. right. the winner is, the british justice system for just ridiculous giving. that chap, he tried to stab a load of jews indiscriminately. a suspended sentence, remarkable . that. and sentence, remarkable. that. and it just begs the question, what do you have to do to get a bit of jail time? right? a massive thank you to everybody who's

been watching and tuning in and interacting with me, even if it's been over whatsapp. thank you, thank you, thank you. i'll be back again for another blockbuster patrick christys. tonight's headline is next. i'll see you at nine. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> evening time for your latest weather from the met office here on gb news. for many of us, it's been a fine day today. tomorrow a very different story, a cold start and then it'll turn wet. and particularly in the west, very windy . and particularly in the west, very windy. here's the reason why. a couple of sets of weather fronts coming in from the atlantic. ahead of that, we've had a ridge of high pressure which, as i said, has brought most of us a fine day. still 1 or 2 showers over northeast scotland and eastern england, but they are fading away. and generally it's going to be a dry night with some lengthy clear spells. and that's why it's going to turn chilly. temperatures well down into single digits, even in towns and cities. and some rural spots even lower. so yes , another even lower. so yes, another pretty fresh start tomorrow.

generally a dry and a bright start, but not everywhere. here comes the rain trickling in towards northern ireland and west wales, along with southwest england, so rapidly clouding overin england, so rapidly clouding over in the southwest through the morning. much of the midlands and eastern england will start to dry. and so, you know, with a bit of sunshine, temperatures will soon start to lift. but turning wet across northern ireland, it's going to be a soggy day here. increasingly windy to most of scotland will start dry again, though a cold start here and then steadily as we go through then steadily as we go through the day. the cloud and the rain across northern ireland will start to spread its way into southwest scotland, up towards the central belt, the rain drifting into wales and southwest england by lunchtime and then through the afternoon, some of that rain getting into northern england and the midlands much of eastern england will stay dry through most of the day, along with northern scotland, but in the west, not only turning wet but also windy, unusually windy around these western coasts through the afternoon . again feeling pretty afternoon. again feeling pretty cool, particularly with the wet and the windy weather that's moved across northern

gb news. >> it's 11:00. you're with gp >> it's11:00. you're with gp news. in a moment. headliners but first, let's take you through the latest news headlines. this hour, the prime minister and the labour leader have both faced a tv q&a tonight ahead of the release of labour's electoral manifesto tomorrow. dufing electoral manifesto tomorrow. during the programme tonight, sir keir starmer said that his

party's manifesto will focus on wealth creation, adding there'd be no tax rises for working people. >> i think requires us to raise taxes and i'll tell you, no, no, i do want i challenge me and i want to deal with this . i want want to deal with this. i want to do things differently. i want to do things differently. i want to grow our economy. i accept that previous labour leaders have sort of pulled the tax lever every single time and dnven lever every single time and driven up spending . i want to driven up spending. i want to grow our economy. the manifesto tomorrow will be a manifesto, a plan for wealth creation. now you may not hear a labour leader say that very often, but for me thatis say that very often, but for me that is the most important thing. and i want, and therefore i'm not going to do what other labour leaders have done and be tempted to simply say every time we're going to tax lever, we're not going to do that. >> sir keir starmer well, rishi sunak was quizzed on migration and the nhs and he admitted the conservatives hadn't made as much progress on cutting waiting lists as he would have liked. he also accepted that immigration was a too high a level, but he vowed the government's flagship rwanda plan would work .

rwanda plan would work. >> we've done is already started detaining people