rises refused to rule out tax rises and this morning he's going to launch. hooray! we can't wait. his party's manifesto in manchester. >> this is a strange story. online abuse crackdown the fa has spent a quarter of £1 million for a police unit to catch people who abuse england players on social media during the euro 2024 campaign, an waste of money. oh, look at this, andrew pierce versus kevin maguire. there was a clash of the right and the left last night at leicester square theatre. the audience asked andrew and kevin if gb news will be shut down. >> just tell you, my dear, can i just tell you, my dear wishful thinking. ofcom will not close down gb news and there'd be no market for a left wing channel. you've got a left wing channel. it's called the bbc, ofcom, ofcom, ofcom. woke .

ofcom, ofcom. woke. >> i was gonna say surely every other channel is pretty much left wing channel 4, bbc, itv, he said. >> is there a left wing.7 we've got one, it's the bbc and didn't you say that there were a lot of gb news fans in the audience last night? and if you're watching, there was a lovely couple came all the way down from scotland to watch, because i was going to be there with you. >> no , they didn't actually. >> no, they didn't actually. >> no, they didn't actually. >> and they, they didn't seem they didn't seem crushed. no actually they were very flat. no, they said they said the pearce and turner show is their favourite. and they came all the way down from scotland. they were making a they're going to have a long weekend of it. so if you're watching, it was so lovely to meet you last night and lots of gb news viewers and listeners were there, and we do appreciate you and we love you and thank you for all your support. >> we really, really do. especially as well our radio listeners this morning, great radio figures recently as well. so stay with us. we're here until midday gbnews.com forward . until midday gbnews.com forward. slash your essay to let us know your thoughts this morning. first at the very latest news with aaron armstrong .

with aaron arm strong. >> with aaron armstrong. >> good morning. it's 932. i'm aaron armstrong in the gb newsroom. labour will launch its selection manifesto later, with sir keir starmer pledging to put wealth creation and economic stability at the heart of government. speaking during an election programme on sky news last night, the labour leader faced intense questioning but insisted the party's plans are fully costed and promised there would be no surprise taxes , i would be no surprise taxes, i think requires us to raise taxes and i'll tell you no, no, i do want to. >> i challenge me and i want to deal with this. i want to do things differently. i want to grow our economy. i accept that previous labour leaders have sort of pulled the tax lever every single time and driven up spending. i want to grow our economy vie the manifesto tomorrow will be a manifesto, a plan for wealth creation. now, you may not hear a labour leader say that very often, but for me thatis say that very often, but for me that is the most important thing and i want. therefore, i'm not going to do what other labour leaders have done and be tempted to simply say, every time we're

going to pull the tax lever, we're not going to do that. >> well, the prime minister was also robustly challenged, including by the audience, particularly on his party's migration record. he insisted the plan to kerb the number of new arrivals is working, and said flights to rwanda would soon get off the ground. >> if you look at the sum total of the time that i've been prime minister because you've picked one particular period, if you look at the sum total of the time that i've been prime minister, the numbers are down. >> the numbers were down on last yean >> the numbers were down on last year, the numbers were down considerably. were down on 2020 because of the work that we've done. but that well, it's a record year this year. they've gone up by 40. but if you look in the first, because we think these things are cyclical, because what you've seen is one new country, vietnam , accounting new country, vietnam, accounting for a lot of the new arrivals. >> all right. and just as we dean >> all right. and just as we dealt with albania i can give you okay. >> let's go back to bases. you said you were stopping small boats. boat crossings are going up this year. let's let's talk about rwanda. >> in other news, wizz air has been again ranked as the worst airline for delays despite a recent surge in fares. the budget carrier's departure from

uk airports were, on average, more than half an hour behind schedule last year. that's according to the civil aviation authority. it means wizz recorded the worst punctuality for uk flights for a third consecutive year . we'll have consecutive year. we'll have a full bulletin coming up at the top of the next hour, or you can get more on all of our stories by signing up to the gb news alerts, the qr codes on your screen. the details are @gbnews. com slash alerts. now back to andrew and . bev. andrew and. bev. >> very good morning. welcome to britain's newsroom on gb news with me bev turner and arjun peer andrew pierce this morning. now jk rowling has accused the bbc of having a shameful record on reporting on women's and transgender issues . transgender issues. >> this is all about the new bbc director of sport, who's a man called alex k joel cauchi, who's downplayed fears raised by sports women about biological men competing in female categories. and he's also called

martina navratilova, i've got to say, has to be probably the most successful woman tennis player in history and a very brave woman , too. she escaped the iron woman, too. she escaped the iron curtain and she came out . and curtain and she came out. and sharon davis, he says, are not experts on the issue . experts on the issue. >> at the same time, transgender us swimmer leah thomas has lost her legal battle and been told that she cannot compete at the olympics . so who better to talk olympics. so who better to talk to about both these stories and former olympic swimmer sharon davies? sharon, good morning. thank you so much for joining us. let's talk about leah thomas. first, just explain to our audience what's happened for their particular situation . their particular situation. >> yeah. so leah thomas made an appeal to world aquatics who have this rule in place. it says that they protect the female category as does athletics and world cycling. and because leah doesn't actually qualify because leah isn't training. so she's she's not even someone that would be potentially part of the olympic team. they've just said that, you know, you don't qualify to be able to bring this case. so it's been been thrown out on a technicality , thank

out on a technicality, thank goodness, and which means that, you know, swimming will not have any males beating elite females in paris this summer, which was particularly good for me, beanng particularly good for me, bearing in mind that i now have to be very careful about what i'm allowed to say and not say exactly . exactly. >> so pulling these two stories together, you have a new boss at the bbc, vie, and why do you feel you're going to have to be more careful this summer , partly more careful this summer, partly because the ioc sent out a set of guidelines saying we were not allowed to use the words biological male, transitioned male . i mean, just every single male. i mean, just every single possible way that we could explain that the person in the race wasn't a female. they have removed their guidelines, have removed their guidelines, have removed us from the ability to be able to use those words. so i'm very much hoping that tim davie , and on our new head of davie, and on our new head of sport will say no, truth is really important that, we would like our journalists to be able like ourjournalists to be able to tell the truth so that people at home can know what is going on in the races. and i certainly will be trying to tell the truth, you know, as i always have, this isn't about keeping

anybody out of sport. i want everyone to do sport. this is just about fair sport. this is just about fair sport. this is just about fair sport. this is just about protecting sport for young girls. you know, whether thatis young girls. you know, whether that is in schools, on the pathways or elite athletes so that women can get equal rights involved in sport. that women can get equal rights involved in sport . we don't get involved in sport. we don't get equal rights. but you know that we already have a tiny slice of the cake. you know, we get 2% of the cake. you know, we get 2% of the sponsorship dollar, 4% of the sponsorship dollar, 4% of the airtime, 11,000 men in this country, compared to 1000 women earn their living. and you can be damn sure that 1000 women get nowhere near the money that the 11,000 men get. so we get this tiny, tiny piece of the cake, and now we're told we're not even allowed to have fair sport. and it only affects women. it doesn't affect men. you know, females that identify as male are no risk to men's sport in any shape or form . it's just any shape or form. it's just women that are losing their opportunities. and the new boss of times of sport, sharon , says of times of sport, sharon, says you're not an expert on the trans issue, nor is navratilova. >> well, why is nor is he. but you have. >> i would like to know who is an expert then. so between us,

martina, i've got 100 years in, in elite sport. so she was winning all her awards, as was l, winning all her awards, as was i, pretty much before this guy was ever born . yeah, she's got was ever born. yeah, she's got nearly 50 grand slam titles. you know, i've got medals from every single event. i spent 20 years racing , east single event. i spent 20 years racing, east german single event. i spent 20 years racing , east german athletes racing, east german athletes pumped full of testosterone who beat many of my friends into positions that would have changed their lives if they'd won the medals. they should have won. and i've got a, you know, a best selling book that spent i spent a year researching, which was shortlisted by the william hill, the times and the telegraph, a sports book of the yeah telegraph, a sports book of the year. you kind of wonder what it takes to be an expert. and actually, as a female athlete , actually, as a female athlete, surely i've got an entitled to a voice, you know, and to protect other female athletes. >> do you think he's trying, sharon? do you think he's trying to close you down? >> i don't know, i mean, to be fair to him, this was was an article that was written in 2019. however that's not long ago, no, not long ago. and all this information was available at the time. however, the thing itake at the time. however, the thing i take the most offence to, and this is very serious and this needs to be dealt with by the bbc. and this is why i wrote to

tim davie in that article. he compared males that are identifying as women in women's sport to jamaican and ethiopian females being allowed to compete. what? that is a racist comment. hang on just one sharon. >> just explain that again. what did he what did he do? >> he compared males that are identifying as female and being able to race in the female category as ethiopian and jamaican women racing in women's sport and having an advantage. my sport and having an advantage. my daughter is mixed race and does track and field . i take does track and field. i take massive offence to that and i think that is a that is a racist comment and that needs dealing with by the bbc. >> so what what he's suggesting is that black women will have a physiological advantage over white women and therefore that they have more in common with a man who's transitioned to being female and he's head of bbc sport. >> yeah. and the thing is, you

know, what's ridiculous, andrew, is, is the category isn't colour . the category isn't where you come from. the category is sex, it's sex, it's biology. so this is the category. and no woman i know of has any problem where anyone comes from in the world. they just want to race people with the same biology, this new director of sport, alex krizhevsky . obviously, he isn't krizhevsky. obviously, he isn't here to defend himself. and i think we're quite right to point out we have, by the way, as a station, approached the bbc for a comment and they've declined. of course, i think he did make these comments in 2019. this particular issue has evolved very quickly. i would say the pendulum has swung very far one way, and i like to think it's not coming back quickly, though. >> bev. i mean, the rule changed in 2015. so it's nearly nine years now. years how. >> years now. >> i'm just wondering what would you want him to do, sharon? because because he will. he is your new boss at particularly with your olympics coverage this summer , do you think he needs to summer, do you think he needs to issue a statement to clarify

what he meant? do you think he needs to talk to you? well, personally, i know who he is. >> i've worked with him. i don't think he can clarify it because it's what he thinks. >> it's what he thinks. it really is what he thinks. and i worry about it as well. >> he's a gay man. >> he's a gay man. >> i worry about women's sport on the bbc now. you know, i really do. and although we've had a, we've had more exposure of, say, women's football on the bbc, a lot of other sports where women have equality like track and field and swimming and cycling and rowing and kayaking, they've almost disappeared from they've almost disappeared from the bbc last year at the world championships, swimming , one of championships, swimming, one of the biggest participation sports in this country, did not even get it onto the bbc. the whole of last year, we didn't have one major international on the bbc last year and not that it should matter, but we're rather successful at swimming as well, aren't we? as a country we're really successful. we had the most successful olympic games in 100 years. we, you know, we've got a fantastic team going this summer. i'm very excited. i'm going to be there on my microphone, as is martina, you know, at wimbledon. so i have

spoken to tim, i have sent letters to tim and he's assured me that nothing is going to change with regards to that. but i am worried about women's sport and i'm and i need assurances that women's sport will get fair, you know, presence on the bbc. but also what are his opinions now, you know, does he still believe that men should be in women's sport, or does he believe that women are entitled to fair sport, fascinating as always. >> sharon, keep up the good fight . well done. fight. well done. >> she's a great woman. thank you. sharon, lovely to talk to you. sharon, lovely to talk to you. i used to work with this 9”!!- you. i used to work with this guy. and when the tories were going to introduce gay marriage, i was an outspoken critic of it because i said it was just a ludicrous pr stunt by david cameron. somebody in a civil partnership. he attacked me onune partnership. he attacked me online and he was a colleague. oh, really ? attacked me oh, really? attacked me vociferously and quite brutally, actually , did i care? not in the actually, did i care? not in the slightest. but it caused some embarrassment because rivals to the daily mail say , seized on the daily mail say, seized on the daily mail say, seized on the fact that one of the daily

mail's most high profile columnists was being attacked. >> well, it'd be interesting to see what changes he makes to the bbc sport coverage, won't it? particularly with the olympics this year and how much those big summer of sport and the bbc. >> if the bbc did due diligence, they would have been aware of that article because i remember reading it thinking, blimey, that's going to stymie your career, mate, if that's your view. clearly not clearly not. not at the bbc. everything's fine at the bbc if it's woke right . right. >> up next. sir keir starmer topped a snap poll after the leaders were both interviewed last night. are you warming to the labour leader? we're going to show you some clips. i personally don't think either of them fared terribly well. can't lie. this is britain's newsroom on

gb news. so did you see the interview with the two main leaders last night? well, rishi sunak was

dean night? well, rishi sunak was dealt a blow after a snap poll found that viewers thought keir starmer performed better in the sky news tv election. grilling >> let's have a look at some of starmer's supposedly best bits. here they are. >> you see more like a political robot. how are you? how are you going to convince others like me to vote for you? >> well, the most look, look, all i can say i went to run the crown prosecution service. you referenced that i was the chief prosecutor for five years. effectively bringing every criminal prosecution in england, in wales, including here in grimsby. but when i grew up, my dad was a toolmaker. he worked in a factory. it's true. my mum was a nurse and actually we couldn't make ends meet . couldn't make ends meet. >> they are so detached from what they really are. >> they really are and he won. so if he won, how bad was sunak? >> well, when rishi sunak was asked for a fun fact, make people like him again. this is what he said.

>> well, actually, funnily enough , people seem to think enough, people seem to think i have a very kind of healthy lifestyle and i go to the gym and the obsession about my fasting, but i actually have an appalling diet because i eat an enormous amount of sugar and i'm very unhealthy in that regard , very unhealthy in that regard, which i was talking to someone today about. they were completely shocked . i'm not sure completely shocked. i'm not sure that's not really something that someone needs to like me, more or less, but that's something. i was talking to someone today and they were. they genuinely surprised about the amount of haribos, twixes and everything else that i get through, particularly during a campaign so contrary contrary to popular belief, i don't have that healthier lifestyle that really makes you want to like the prime minister doesn't with them. >> i eat haribos what's wrong with them? >> do you remember matthew stadler and sam lister have joined us in the theresa may went romping through a wheat field, didn't she? >> do you remember to tell us about her to the mat? >> is it just that they. >> is it just that they. >> they're not. they're just weird. >> they're so worried all the time. they're just weird, right? move on to the topic. >> they are. >> they are. >> is it just that they're so scared, so scared of saying the wrong thing for so many years? >> but what do we want from our

politicians ? you know, honesty. politicians? you know, honesty. starmer. but starmer has been mocked. hasn't he, for being robotic and reminding us that actually he gave a great chunk of his working life again. he's given again to public service, to running the crown prosecution service. he's been in opposition as a labour mp for nine years. >> why did how did that answer the robot question? they said, you're robotic. >> and he couldn't answer the question . question. >> look, who do we want taylor swift running for prime minister? do you want donald trump? >> no one wants somebody who answers a question like a normal human being. but he did. he didn't. he didn't answer the question like a normal human being. >> what's wrong with them? i think the problem is they are really paranoid . whatever they really paranoid. whatever they say is jumped on. but i was thinking about this. if somebody says to you, bev, tell me something that makes me like you , it's just an impossible. you cannot answer that question. >> but then don't you say there's just no answer. there is impossible. >> there isn't . >> there isn't. >> there isn't. >> all people can do is make their own mind up when they see me talk. >> yeah, that's all you can say. thatis >> yeah, that's all you can say. that is all you can say. and thatis that is all you can say. and that is the only way to answer that is the only way to answer that question. you don't say i eat loads of sweets. >> yes, kind of a bit. but it's

like when the prime minister was asked in the other interview the other day, itv did you did you really have a struggle in your child and he came up with that. >> what did you as a child. yeah. >> well, famously we didn't have sky, nor did we, because it wasn't even invented when i was a kid. you know, there were lots of things. it was. he didn't need to get into the root of that answer. >> he could have no, he had it. you have to be ready for these things because it's not as if it's not the policy things. it's the it's the off ball questions like, you know, why should i like, you know, why should i like you? what did you struggle with when you were a kid? but i think the thing is, what struck me last night after watching it was both of them had a hard time. rishi sunak clearly kind of had a tougher time than keir starmer, but they were both mocked. they were both laughed at, and at the end of it, when they were chatting to the people in the audience afterwards, they were saying, one said, i came here thinking i was going to vote for keir starmer, but i heard him not answer any questions, so i'm not going to vote for him either. i'm not going to vote for either of them. and that seemed to be the main mood. i don't like either of them. well, hang on guys.

>> you said in your introduction there was a snap poll. we take all polls, especially in an election campaign, with a pinch of salt, a snap poll had starmer winning that convincingly quite out of two people twice. >> you've got two options. twice as yeah well that's those are the options faces. >> so realistic options and starmer is absolutely nailing it on on that account. listen we've had how many how many prime ministers have we had do you think in the last three years. in the last five years. >> do you think he's charismatic? i don't. do you think he's interesting? >> i think he do you think he's. he is someone who's revealed much to the country about what his government is really going to do. no. and i think that's thatis to do. no. and i think that's that is shameful. to do. no. and i think that's that is shameful . actually. you that is shameful. actually. you can make that argument. you could call you could call it cynical, but what he wants to do is win this election so he can make the country a better place, because how many prime ministers how does he we know how he's going to make it better. we had in the last eight years, how do we know he's going to make it better? >> because he's not telling us what he's going to do. he's withholding information. it is not cynical, it's dishonest. >> but he's been quite clear on tax, hasn't he? he says we're not going to raise income tax. we're not going to raise vat. we're not going to raise vat. we're not going to raise vat. we're not going to raise national insurance.

>> you're going to raise income. >> you're going to raise income. >> a lot of people would think he should be doing those things. >> he is going to raise income tax because he's going to stick to the tory plan to freeze fiscal thresholds, which means people are going to be dragged into higher tax rates. he's going to raise our income tax. be honest about it. >> listen, let me just i am listening. let me quickly finish my point. we had a clown as prime minister or someone who played the clown in the form of bofis played the clown in the form of boris johnson, who was found by mps to have deliberately misled parliament. we've had all that. we've had all the razzmatazz we've had the british, donald trump people are crying out for someone who is dedicated to pubuc someone who is dedicated to public service, someone who really does want to make the country a better place, someone who says that when he became a labour mp, he didn't want to become he wasn't planning to become he wasn't planning to become prime minister. this is a man who's turned the labour party around. this is a man who wants growth, who wants to be fiscally responsible. now, is he going to succeed? i can't tell you that. i'm not starmer's right hand man. i hope to god he succeeds because this country is in a terrible mess. we've had five prime ministers in eight years. how many? how many home secretaries have we had? how many foreign secretaries david

cameron promised us in 2015 stability with the tories or chaos with ed miliband. what have we had ever since? total chaos in this. in this country we need change. the country is crying out for change. >> you refuse to engage with what starmer is going to do with the future, and that's the problem. it's going to work. >> it's going to whack up taxes. andrew, we know this, we know this. and they've studiously not ruled out putting up capital gains tax. that is a tax on landlords . anybody with shares landlords. anybody with shares things like that. they've not done that. because if they say that then everyone's going to flog all their assets now. >> and they and they play into this terrible, terrible myth that landlords are bad people. yeah. most landlords have one additional. >> exactly. yeah. >> exactly. yeah. >> it may be grandma and grandpa playing into this myth though. >> andrew, why is he the labour party? >> smith. which is why they're going to screw the landlords. >> we don't know that. yes we do. we do, yes we do. >> by the way, if there will be higher capital gains on people who have a second, we don't know that. >> if we do, if listen, if i am listening. >> okay. right. we have to move on, guys. really? oh i know honestly, if he doesn't raise taxes, there's an £18 billion.

>> which taxes is going to pubuc >> which taxes is going to public services arguing here's the weather. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello and welcome to the latest update from the met office for gb news. it's a chilly start out there this morning for many of us, but it is going to turn cloudier, breezier and from the west wetter . now we've got some early wetter. now we've got some early sunshine for eastern england, northern scotland as well. many places turn cloudier through the morning and for northern ireland, western england, western scotland and wales we'll see outbreaks of rain move in by lunchtime. many places are damp and breezy, with some heavy bursts of rain, particularly for wales, southwest and northern ireland. that's going to make it feel unpleasant. 14 or 15 celsius east of england mostly dry, increasingly cloudy. northern scotland, though, keeps the sunshine until late in the day because , as many places

day because, as many places elsewhere are going to see the rain moving through now across much of england and wales at 5 pm, it's damp with outbreaks of p.m, it's damp with outbreaks of rain. the rain will be on and off, but it will be heaviest towards the west. northern ireland just seeing the rain starting to clear at this stage, but for the central belt for much of the highlands, grampians, western isles as well. we'll see outbreaks of rain. northern scotland keeps the bright weather until after the bright weather until after the sun goes down and even into the sun goes down and even into the evening it's going to stay mostly dry here. elsewhere, the rain clears to showers and the showers become frequent across southwest england, wales, northern ireland overnight. it's going to be breezy night as well, so with the breeze, a change in wind direction compared with the northerlies we've had recently and the cloud it's going to be a milder start to friday, but it is going to be an unsettled start. the more persistent rain by this stage into the northern isles , the far into the northern isles, the far north and west of the mainland of scotland and elsewhere,

frequent showers developing as the day progresses. in between the day progresses. in between the downpours, there will be some brighter or sunnier spells. not everywhere will get soaking, but for many places i would keep an umbrella handy. there are going to be a lot of showers around that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> 10:00 on thursday, the 13th of june. this is britain's newsroom on gb news with me, bev turner and andrew pierce . turner and andrew pierce. >> well, did you watch the. did you watch it last night? sir keir starmer won the snap poll after both he and the prime minister were interviewed last night. soon he was actually booed when he entered the tv studio . studio. >> economic growth pledge labour leader sir keir starmer has refused to rule out tax rises and later this morning he's

going to launch his party's manifesto in manchester during this show, cancer treatment delays more than 380,000 patients haven't been treated on time since 2015. >> we're asking have you been impacted by this? we'd like to hear from you and pierce versus maguire. >> yep. some people paid real money to go and watch andrew pierce and kevin maguire talk to each other on stage last night. the clash of the left versus the right. the audience asked andrew and kevin if gb news would be shut down. can i just tell you, my dear ? my dear? >> i tell you, my dear, wishful thinking. ofcom will not close down gb news and there'd be no market for a left wing channel. you've got a left wing channel. it's called the bbc. ofcom ofcom, ofcom won't . ofcom, ofcom won't. >> and it was a very gb news friendly audience .

friendly audience. >> it was and there was. i know there are lots of gb news viewers and listeners there, but there was a lovely couple came down all the way from scotland just for that and they, and they said how much they liked gb news and their favourite show, our show. so thank you for watching and listening. lovely to meet you and we like all our gb news viewers and listeners and our radio figures . radio figures. >> okay. through the roof. >> okay. through the roof. >> yeah. thank you all for joining us. we really appreciate it. gbnews.com/yoursay so that we can hear what you want to tell us this morning. first, though, the very latest news with . aaron. with. aaron. >> hi. good morning to you. it's a minute past ten i'm aaron armstrong. labour will launch its manifesto later , with sir its manifesto later, with sir keir starmer pledging to put wealth creation and economic stability at the heart of government. speaking during an election programme on sky news last night, the labour leader faced intense questioning. but insisted his party's plans are fully costed and promised there would be no surprise. taxes. >> nothing requires us to raise tax and i'll tell you no, no, i

do want to. i challenge me and i want to deal with this. i want to do things differently. i want to do things differently. i want to grow our economy. i accept that previous labour leaders have sort of pulled the tax lever every single time and dnven lever every single time and driven up spending. i want to grow our economy . the manifesto grow our economy. the manifesto tomorrow will be a manifesto, a plan for wealth creation. now, you may not hear a labour leader say that very often, but for me thatis say that very often, but for me that is the most important thing. and i want and therefore i'm not going to do what other labour leaders have done and be tempted to simply say , every tempted to simply say, every time we're going to pull the tax lever, we're not going to do that. >> well, the prime minister was robustly challenged on his party's migration record as well, but he insisted the plan to kerb migration is working. and he said flights to rwanda would soon get off the ground. >> if you look at the sum total of the time that i've been prime minister, because you've picked one particular period, if you look at the sum total of the time that i've been prime minister, the numbers are down. >> the numbers were down on last last year. the numbers were down considerably, were down on 2020 because of the work that we've done. because of the work that we've done . but that well, it's done. but that well, it's a record year this year. they've

gone up by 40. but if you look in the past, because we think these things are cyclical, because what you've seen is one new country, vietnam accounting for a lot of the new arrivals. >> all right. and just as we dean >> all right. and just as we dealt with albania i can give you okay, let's go back to bases. >> you said you were stopping small boats. boat crossings are going up this year. let's let's talk about rwanda. >> you snap poll conducted by yougov after last night's debate found only 36% of viewers thought rishi sunak performed better. the labour leader also faced criticism, with a member of the audience accusing him of behaving like a robot. labour's campaign coordinator, pat mcfadden, says sir keir starmer isn't in the entertainment business and voters should focus on their manifesto . on their manifesto. >> look, i thought he did really well in the debate and today we're publishing our manifesto. it's our plan to change the country , it's an exciting day country, it's an exciting day for us in the campaign , when you for us in the campaign, when you are asking for people's support, they want to know your manifesto. they want to know what you're going to do, and that's the document that we are

publishing, this morning. and it will set out our responsible , will set out our responsible, costed plan to change the country, start to get the waiting list down, have more teachers in our schools , secure teachers in our schools, secure our borders, start on that transition to cleaner energy, and start growing the economy . and start growing the economy. >> the gambling commission is investigating reports one of rishi sunak's key aides placed a bet on when the election would take place , just three days take place, just three days before it was called. craig williams served as the prime minister's parliamentary private secretary. now he's admitted to putting a flutter on when the election would happen. some weeks ago. but he says he doesn't want to get bogged down in what he's described as routine inquiries and that would distract from the campaign . distract from the campaign. britain's welfare bill, where welfare bill is expected to rise by more than £20 billion a year by more than £20 billion a year by the end of the next parliament. a report from the resolution foundation thinktank found. that's being driven almost entirely by pensioners and those with a health

condition, with the overall cost bigger today than at the beginning of the financial crisis in two thousand and seven, spending on the state pension has grown. the most, followed by disability and incapacity payments . while incapacity payments. while benefits not related to health or housing have fallen well, both main parties have committed to the triple lock pension rise, although the conservatives have pledged to cut spending by £12 billion a year. cancer research says more than 380,000 patients haven't been treated on time going back almost a decade. the charity found a key nhs target where 85% of people start treatment for cancer within 62 days of a referral was last met in december 2015. the royal college of radiologists say delays in care are becoming routine, reporting a 30% shortfall in radiology lists and a 15% shortfall in oncologists. the conservatives say cancer survival rates continue to improve in the uk and they have

a clear plan to take bold action. and finally, wizz air has again been ranked as the worst airline for delays despite a recent surge in fares . the a recent surge in fares. the budget carrier's departures from uk airports were, on average, more than half an hour behind schedule last year, according to the civil aviation authority. it means wizz is recorded the worst punctuality for uk flights for a third consecutive year . well, third consecutive year. well, you can get more on our stories by signing up to gb news alerts. the code is on your screen and the details are on gb news .com/ alerts. now it's back to andrew and . bev. and. bev. >> it's 1006 here with britain's newsroom on gb news with andrew pearson bev turner. the panel is still here. >> political commentator matt stadlen and sam lister, political editor of daily express, are with us. >> big, big moment. today we had the tory manifesto launch on tuesday, overshadowed continually, of course, by the continuing row about d—day, the

d—day thing. although sam , every d—day thing. although sam, every campaigner i've spoke to candidate labour tory has said it's not a big issue on the doorstep . doorstep. >> yeah, i think, you know, to be fair to rishi sunak, let's let's be charitable to him. i think he did spend all his time with veterans there. he did not desert the veterans, which is obviously the farage attack line. the bit he left was the international commemorations. he thought that was the pr bit. and so he just wanted to spend his time with the veterans. but we know, we know it was a mistake. everyone knows it's his mistake, he obviously wants to move on from that. will will people let him i don't know, that's going to be quite a tricky one to move on for. but as you say today, andrew, the labour manifesto, i mean, is it a big moment because there's going to be nothing. there's nothing in it. waste of papenl there's nothing in it. waste of paper. i mean they've told us there's going to be nothing in it. i mean, what is the only interesting thing is what they're not telling us. it's not what they're telling us because they're telling us nothing. what they're telling us nothing. what they're not telling us is about their tax rises. and that is guiding said. >> last week, 10 to 12 tax rises

in the in in the let's be budget . hang on matt just just before we come to you 10 to 12. yeah. basically around capital gains tax capital gains tax but also your pensions , the contributions your pensions, the contributions the tax you pay on your pensions. >> obviously we know the conservatives have promised this triple lock. plus where you don't pay income tax on your state pension. labour haven't matched that. there are there are loads of different ways they can do this without having to do those main rates. they've obviously promised not to put up the main rates of income tax, national insurance, vat, everything else is up for grabs. they're not ruling anything out. so this document today, who cares? there's nothing in it thatis cares? there's nothing in it that is of interest because they're not telling us anything. it's everything that's not in it. that is the matt you want a labour government? >> are you not disappointed that they're not being transparently. they're not being more honest about like you are? >> they're going to raise taxes like like you. i can see why starmer is being incredibly cautious and he can't predict the economic circumstances that are coming up. >> he's got a 20 point lead in the polls . yeah. the polls. yeah. >> but so did theresa may. she was so did so did to theresa may

in 2017. wasn't it . and then in 2017. wasn't it. and then that crashed down and she actually lost the majority . so actually lost the majority. so you can understand why he's being cautious. the problem the snp are accusing labour of having an £18 billion black hole in their finances. they say that the ifs have come up with this figure. if that is true, andrew, then they're going to have to cut non—protected public services. public services are already on their knees. starmer has been very clear. you earlier made the point about fiscal drag. but fiscal drag aside and it is an important caveat. >> just remind people what that is. people are going to be taken into higher tax rates because they're freezing the income tax thresholds. >> and that inflation through inflation, you then you then you end up paying more. the point here is he's saying we're not going to increase taxes. that for aside, working people. now we've been talking here about capital gains tax. when public services are on their knees , services are on their knees, when you have 7.5 million of us on nhs waiting lists, not quite

7.5 million because some, some people are on two different waiting lists, but millions of us waiting to get the care we desperately need. when you have our armed forces decimated by the tories in recent years, when you have gp appointments, people not being able to get gp appointments, when you have dental care. so when you have all these issues, why should we protect as a society people who are making sometimes massive capital gains on second properties? in a civilised society, you have to make choices. and i would rather that there are better public services than me not being properly taxed. if i sell my flat , which taxed. if i sell my flat, which i was lucky enough to have and sold a year or so ago, i could quite easily have been asked to pay a quite easily have been asked to pay a bit more tax, or even a lot more tax on that, so that people get taken off nhs waiting lists. that is the hallmark of if you can afford it, other people can't and lots of people are in circumstances where perhaps a marriage is broken down, they end up with a house and then they get into a new

relationship. >> there's lots of complicating factors. these aren't rich people. these are just normal people. these are just normal people with normal circumstances . and what we know from labour is it's attack that they tax aspiration private schools. we saw last night in the debate a father who was really struggling, really struggling to pay struggling, really struggling to pay those bills and keir starmer his answer was tough aspiration . his answer was tough aspiration. >> we should be focusing on state education. 94% of our children go to state schools, 90 including me. >> i went to state school. >> i went to state school. >> yeah, and i went to a private school. and i think, i think education should be fairer. >> aspiration is a dirty word for sure. and we know that that's not true at all. >> we should be aspiring to make our state schools the very, very best in the world. not giving tax rebates to the top six 7% to send their children to private. >> you make state schools better by putting at least 40,000 kids from the private sector into those state schools, because that's because they're going to be taken out of private schools . be taken out of private schools. and labour can waffle on about the falling birth rate. if your child is 14, falling birth rate makes a difference. where are they going to put these kids? >> we don't know how many people will be taken in. >> well, we heard from emily

thornberry. >> she admitted it, didn't she? shadow attorney general it's going to mean bigger class sizes in the short term. and she basically said tough in the medium term in the and look i have i do feel for children if they have to be taken out of their schools, particularly if it's if they feel it as a negative experience , it's not negative experience, it's not a perfect policy. >> however, what this what this labour government seems to be wanting us to do is move towards a society where only sort of supen a society where only sort of super, super rich people decide to send their children to private schools, and the rest of us, 94, 93% of us get on muck in together, go to state schools and try and drive up collectively the standards in those schools, because that is the experience of the parents. >> but that's what's going to happen, is only the super rich that's able to afford private. >> well, great. isn't that a great thing? is that a great thing ? thing? >> could it off course, super rich. >> the billionaires , a lot of >> the billionaires, a lot of them living here who can afford private school would be the chinese, the russian, the arabs. it's not hard working british people . they won't be able to people. they won't be able to afford hard working british

people will be sending their children to the schools that 93% of hard working british people already send their children to them. >> it's not about it's not choice. >> it's not about punishing them. it is about levelling the playing field for children. why should a child? let's be clear about this. why should a child simply because their parents aren't as wealthy as my parents were? lucky enough and hard working enough to be. my dad was a very successful commercial barrister . why a very successful commercial barrister. why did i get a chance at a better, significantly , in some cases, significantly, in some cases, better education and someone who lived on my street or lived on my street, that is a who came from a social housing different topic. it's not fair on children. >> if you want to close all private schools, switch off. >> i'm not saying that i would. in an ideal world i would, but that's not what labour is saying. >> ideal world i would, because look at germany. >> isn't that an ideal world? >> isn't that an ideal world? >> isn't that an ideal world? >> i would in an ideal world, we would all have amazing state schools , brilliant with sports schools, brilliant with sports fields and great food and committed teachers and all children would be given the same start in life. we don't live in that utopia . that utopia. >> and why should you get a tax break?

>> it's always pulling. it's always pulling the ladder up and you see it on the labour front bench. people who benefited from this, you benefited from this. i didn't. the labour front bench benefit benefited not forget. they pull the ladder up. >> they pull the ladder up from a private education school went from a grammar school and he had a bursary. >> his parents didn't pay. he had a bursary. he went there, but he still benefited from it. when i want to change, when i talk to labour, labour mps as they were, they they, they develop a rictus grin when they talk about this policy because it is reeks of class war and he wants to do that for envy. who forgave the holiday for go the car and they're the ones who are being punished here. the problem with labour and the bottom line with labour and the bottom line with all this is labour has banged on about how everything in britain is broken, but what they are saying is we haven't got any solutions. we're not going to put up taxes, we're not going to put up taxes, we're not going to put up taxes, we're not going to tell you our plan. everything is broken , but we everything is broken, but we have no plan to fix it. and that is the bottom line. >> all we're going to do is the low hanging fruit of we're going to tax private schools, which are very successful, which are very successful. and honestly, it means that the billionaires

won't be affected . the very wealthy. >> you're right. you're always right. single pupil taken out of eton or middle class. the lawyers , the barristers like lawyers, the barristers like your parents. >> let me come. let me come back to it. okay how on earth are we having a conversation ? about 6 having a conversation? about 6 or 7% of our children. and in fact, only a tiny proportion of those and their privilege and their wealthy parents. >> why not? we're not welcome here. we finish my point. >> i've got to. they're not super wealthy. but you could be a hospital consultant and not be able to afford to send your children to private schools. let's have a conversation, for god's sake. do you know what? let me finish my point. the 93% of our children, our children who we should be investing in and championing, who go to state schools, be invested in. >> yeah. and let me tell you, they can be if they go to state, know why we're talking about it. >> because this is the one policy that labour have said and they've stuck to and they've stuck and that's why we're talking about you're you're defending a tiny what we want to do a tiny minority, what we want to do against the interests of

society in general schools we're going to invest in is so out of touch facilities we're going to invest for 100% of children. let those kids who are at private school who are already not using the state system, and therefore making places for children who are in the state system, let those kids be and let's invest. >> why should they get subsidy? >> why should my parents sending me to a private school? >> whenever you hear the words, why should? yeah, well, my answer, my question. let me answer. let me . answer. let me. >> why should is the mentality. >> why should is the mentality. >> let me ask the question and then you can answer. >> we have to move on, matthew. you'll be back. >> you'll be back. thank you. sam before the election because lots to talk about. >> we've got lots to talk about because it's three weeks to go to the election. i bet you're so excited about it, right? >> still to come gambling on britain's future. a tory aide. this is fascinating. placed £100 bet on the date of the election. just three days before the prime minister's announcement. how bad is that? this is britain's newsroom on

gb news. >> now, of course, throughout this fascinating election campaign, we're listening and heanng campaign, we're listening and hearing from people across the country about what really matters to them. so let's have a look and a listen. >> i'm murray hecht. i'm 50 years old. i live in brighton. the issues that are important to me are anti—semitism, social care and education. often in the past, i was a staunch labour voter. i was a member of the labour party . that all changed labour party. that all changed in the corbyn era, when anti—semitism reared its ugly head. and i became, i suppose, what you would call a floating voter to vote for keir starmer. i'd like to hear, hear from him that he's going to kerb these marches that happen every week in london, that he's going to listen to jewish people and what their fears are, and take it seriously and show us that he's actually going to do something rather than pay lip service and not doing anything, really. my job is at the moment, i'm a full time carer for my mother, who's housebound and disabled. there's a t mum and i want to see things

improve for her and also carers . improve for her and also carers. ihave improve for her and also carers. i have to survive on £81 a week, which is nothing . so i'd like to which is nothing. so i'd like to see an overhaul of the carer's allowance and also more care for people who need it . i have people who need it. i have a dilemma of who i'm going to vote for. i haven't fully decided because i've got to weigh up the pros and cons. obviously, i'm thinking about social care and the issues that are close to my heart , and i know that the heart, and i know that the conservatives haven't had a great track record with this over the last however many years, 14 years that they've beenin years, 14 years that they've been in power. so i've got some weigh up. do i vote for labour with the anti—semitism? do i vote for conservatives who i know are going to cause problems with social care? and my personal situation? so it is a real dilemma for me at the moment. >> thank you. murray how interesting are you know, people work so hard, don't they, and have such difficult lives at times. and we really appreciate you making the time to do that for us here @gbnews. murray, thank you. in the studio we've

got our panel, carole malone and jonathan leach. >> they normally fight and squabble with each other, which is why we love having you here. >> we don't fight a squabble, we debate sensibly. >> is that what you call it? yeah. >> and backstage. we're the best of friends. >> okay. >> okay. >> by the way, before we start loving your hair. oh, thanks. looking good. >> well, i don't normally have my hair up. if you're listening on the radio, i feel like i'm getting married. do you think when she did my hair like this, i did say in the dressing room. i did say in the dressing room. i beverley turner, take the well, you could tiara would not look wrong. >> old enough to get married. does he need permission from his parents? >> that's. oh, pierce, you're a bad boy. >> green eyed monster rearing its ugly head there. she's a lucky girl, there's a story and quite a lot of the front pages. >> malone. about rishi sunaks parliamentary private secretary. he's an mp. what's he done? >> what he's done is he put £100 bet on the date that the general election would be announced . election would be announced. now, when i first read this story, i thought, i mean, i swear to god i wasn't thinking about the law. i was thinking, well, is that such a bad thing? you know, because it's only an

election date. but but apparently it's horribly wrong andifs apparently it's horribly wrong and it's totally, utterly against the law. and it's the equivalent of what you've just said. insider trading , so, yes, said. insider trading, so, yes, i mean, it's bad news. it's made big news. >> well, his name is craig williams, isn't he? yes. and he's also, can i just say useless because he is the he is the link between the prime minister and his backbench mps. >> well, that went well, didn't it? >> yeah. >> yeah. >> you're really helping him how. >> now. >> and he's well. >> and he's well. >> well andrew, i don't want to anyone could have done that job to be honest with the current prime minister didn't do it very well. >> well, to be fair, craig williams is not here to defend himself. >> and i when i looked at this story, i thought if you had a definite that that election was going to be on that date, wouldn't you have put on more than £100? yeah. >> well, yes, because you draw attention to yourself wouldn't you. even more. yeah. but he didn't do it very well. in other words. >> yeah. do we know. so what, what did he win? what was, what were the odds? >> i think it was five. i think it was 5 to 1. no. the point. look, the point is here. >> what's the point? >> what's the point? >> your career at stake for £5. >> your career at stake for £5. >> you're actually giving 10,000. >> well no. then obviously people said, well clearly you

put it in ten different bookshops, no, but that would have shown evil intent. >> and i don't think there was evil intent in this sense, because just wanted to make you don't want to put your career on the line. >> he's going to lose his seat anyway. >> i think that we have to be absolutely clear here. there is absolutely clear here. there is a difference between using political insight, intelligence in order to make bets. lots of people in our world do , make, people in our world do, make, you know, have flutters on politics because we're interested in it. and we kind of. and what i sometimes do is i you know, when, when the conservatives have had by elections, for example, i put a bet on the tories winning the seat. so if they win, i'll feel sad because i want the tories to lose, but i'll win something. so, you know, you balance something out. >> it's a choice to lose. >> it's a choice to lose. >> it's like, but that's not insider trading because they don't have any confidential information. so when you have confidential information, the thing is we do as reporters and journalists, we do have confidential information. >> so there's a kind of a weird thing here. is it weird precedent if you hear something from an mp, there's something's going to happen and you put a bet on it and it happens, is thatis bet on it and it happens, is that is that the equivalent to this? >> that is literally the equivalent of that if you have

confidential information. yeah >> but yeah, but but that would be that would be he as parliamentary private secretary, the prime minister would be privy to the inner workings of some mps said to me, i might think, well, i'll have a flutter. that wouldn't. >> that's different. but that's exactly this is the only point. having insight and having a guessis having insight and having a guess is different from having confidential, bona fide information . information. >> it's a confidential, bona fide information. every single day. i do and doesn't do anything with it, only because you'd be too frightened to go into a well, i wouldn't know how to do it anyway. >> well, exactly. >> well, exactly. >> so they will have to prove that he knew categorically that the election was going to be on that date, and he will maybe just say, craig will say, well, i had i heard this and what he did that he put it on five different dates. >> he didn't put it on july the 4th. he put it on a july election because that's because andrew. >> andrew, that's because the bookmakers don't offer didn't offer individual dates, didn't have it. it's going to be on july the 4th, july the 11th. they'd have it july or july, they'd have it july orjuly, september that we've had mps that i've talked to mps over the past 4 or 5 months, and i'm sure it applies to all you guys that have said there will be they were saying, well, either be july, on november, it's one of two. okay. can i if i can say i

think the more interesting political story is because obviously we can't prejudge a potential legal case, but the more interesting case here is whether they're going to be charged . well, look, he's been charged. well, look, he's been look, this is if look he's this is a potential this is a potential offence under the gambling act. but so the question now is probably will the more interesting question , the more interesting question, andrew, is and bev is do the tories actually disavow him as a candidate. do they do what labour did to their candidate in rochdale in the by—election, say, well, this guy you know, there's a there's a, there's a whiff of potential wrongdoing here. so we kind of disavow him . here. so we kind of disavow him. or do they say we support him and then maybe have the allegation of sleaze? do they cleave to the tory party? >> more important things to worry about john david cameron, lord cameron, this is the front page of newspapers. >> andrew, people are talking about this, lord cameron said. >> it's clearly a very foolish decision. i don't want people making foolish decisions in charge of this country. call me old fashioned . old fashioned. >> what are you about to get it, bev the fool. >> we've got to read you the full list of candidates in

montgomeryshire and glyndwr glyndwr, of which craig williams is an attempt at a welsh accent. >> because if it was, it was hopeless. >> well, you want to keep watching for our welsh accent because. plaid cymru are going to announce their manifesto this morning . morning. >> what did i say? this. >> what did i say? this. >> this is a this is a very this is a very safe seat. >> conservative party for the tories. nelthorpe the green party. oliver lewis, reform uk. glyn preston, liberal democrats. elwyn vaughan, plaid cymru and steve witherden of labour. they are in that seat now. >> let's move on to let's move on to a serious story, a proper story, which is, this was shapps saying this week that, we mustn't give labour a supermajority by voting for reform. >> so concession, isn't it, that they've lost carol. >> yeah. this to me is a very pubuc >> yeah. this to me is a very public statement. we don't think, you know, we've not won. and so what we're begging you to do is not make the lost terrible. but, you know, when you look behind this, there's a strategy to this. and i get it because the strategy is that, you know, if labour win by the supermajority vie, this would be a one party state. that is terrible for democracy. you know, it means that labour can

put any policy they want , know, it means that labour can put any policy they want, any bonkers policy they want offer to parliament and it will go sailing through. that is not good for democracy. we've always need and you know, in democracies you need a good and effective opposition and we will not have one. and this is the this could be a clever way. although the tories are not doing much clever at the moment, for them to try and reduce the losses by people thinking, oh god, you know, yeah, if i vote for a reform, this is going to be catastrophic in a one party state. >> carol, i'm delighted to welcome you as an ally in the campaign for proportional representation , which is representation, which is basically what you're arguing for here. when you have when you're having super majorities, they are the product of first past the post, a ludicrous electoral system where a party like labour can win the so—called super majority with less than 50% of the vote, we could have we could potentially have labour winning, right? but that's exactly the point . it that's exactly the point. it should be in someone like yours and someone like mine as well, because the pendulum swings in both directions. no party should be able to have such a commanding lead with such little support of the british people.

>> weirdo parties can then hold the balance of power. >> this is the absolute norm across very few votes, but they can hold. >> the balance of power is what you're extremist. >> go to israel. look at the people who are propping up the netanyahu government. >> they are people and no one, no one. [10 one. >> no one. >> that's because of the proportional representation. no one says that any electoral system is perfect. >> but i do think as it wouldn't be as a democrat, i do believe that people should be have their views represented. and if 5% of the population want to have a party that i would consider sort of, you know, obscene, they'll have 5% of the seats. we have to deal with that. but like having a supermajority. i agree with carol that it's not helpful or healthy to have a so—called one party state, but that is what the british people are going to vote for. they do not want the conservative 1983. >> i think it was the alliance party. they got 25. they did 4% of the vote, and yet they only got 23 seats. >> and that's not fair. >> and that's not fair. >> even if people vote for reform because they can't bear to vote for tories and they get they get a massive a labour, they'll give labour a massive

majority. they're not going to get a fraction of 23 seats, and labouris get a fraction of 23 seats, and labour is going to have a if i read a stat today, if a quarter of the electorate vote for the turn out because it's going to be a low turnout. so if they get a quarter of the vote, they could still have 422 seats. that is not fair either. that kind of goes to your point, jonathan, but that is exactly what i'm saying. >> that's exactly what i'm saying. but so you kind of you win. what how how are we going to sort of settle this argument either we say that it's not fair that reforms should get so many votes and not have any seats or all we say that, you know, sort of the party with the most votes in every seat should have as many seats as they want. and the conservatives just, just have to beg for people to vote for them out of sympathy. it's not exactly a strong look for a governing party. they please vote for us. the opposition doesn't get all the seats strong. >> sunak came out straight away after shapps and said said he didn't believe they were going to get a supermajority. and i thought this is why he is so wrong as a leader, because even now, three weeks before an election where he's about to get slaughtered, he still doesn't get the danger of this. he still

doesn't see that labour could get a supermajority , and he's get a supermajority, and he's denying the fact it could happen. you know , this is the happen. you know, this is the time for him to go, you know, you know what? or bust and be controversial and do something big. and he still can't. >> everything for everything he does fails. >> carol, jonathan, carol, you'll be back. wrap it there it is. time for the news headlines. here's aaron armstrong. >> good morning to you. it's 1031 here in the gb newsroom . 1031 here in the gb newsroom. labour will launch its election manifesto shortly . sir keir manifesto shortly. sir keir starmer will pledge to put wealth creation and economic stability at the heart of government. the labour leader faced criticism following his appearance on an election programme last night, but national campaign coordinator pat mcfadden says voters focus will be on the party's plans. >> look, i thought he did really well in the debate and today we're publishing our manifesto . we're publishing our manifesto. it's our plan to change the country, it's an exciting day for us in the campaign , when you

for us in the campaign, when you are asking for people's support, they want to know your manifesto. they want to know what you're going to do , and what you're going to do, and that's the document that we are publishing, this morning. and it will set out our responsible , will set out our responsible, costed plan to change the country, start to get the waiting list down, have more teachers in our schools , secure teachers in our schools, secure our borders, start on that transition to cleaner energy, and start growing the economy . and start growing the economy. >> the gambling commission is investigating reports one of rishi sunak's key aides placed a bet on when the election would take place, just three days before it was called . craig before it was called. craig williams admitted to what he called putting on a flutter , but called putting on a flutter, but said he doesn't want what he's described as routine inquiries to distract from the campaign . to distract from the campaign. britain's welfare bill is expected to rise by more than £20 million a year by the end of the next parliament, a report from the resolution foundation think tank found the overall costs bigger today than at the beginning of the financial crash

in two thousand and seven, dnven in two thousand and seven, driven almost entirely by pensioners and those with a health condition. spending on the state pension has grown the most, followed by disability and incapacity payments . while incapacity payments. while benefits not related to health or housing have fallen, both main parties have committed to the triple lock pension rise, although the conservatives have pledged to cut spending by £12 billion a year. we'll be back with more a little later this morning, or you can get more right now by scanning the qr code on your screen or going to our website gb news. com slash alerts . alerts. >> cheers. britannia wine club proudly sponsors the gb news financial report . financial report. >> and a quick look at the markets this morning the pound will buy you $1.2796 and ,1.1841. the price of gold £1,811.89 per ounce, and the ftse 100 is at 8187 points.

>> cheers. britannia wine club proudly sponsors the gb news financial report . financial report. >> it now plaid cymru is launching their manifesto today. are you excited, andrew? >> oh yes. yes yes very much. >> and they are going to launch part of it. the leader in welsh and the welsh leader plaid cymru is it's rhun ap yorath . did you is it's rhun ap yorath. did you like my welsh accent? >> yeah, yeah . >> yeah, yeah. >> yeah, yeah. >> and you're fluent. >> and you're fluent. >> wound up your. this is not rune up. yourth. i don't know who this is, but they are speaking at the moment. >> but we will come when the leader comes because i know everybody is watching. and listening is on the edge of their seat. to hear the plaid cymru manifesto launch. obviously >> and what? >> and what? >> jonathan, why are you laughing? if you're welsh, you very well may be. >> and we need to take. >> and we need to take. >> and we need to take. >> and can i just say jonathan here is laughing now jonathan is one who's just talking about having a proportional representation system. >> it would probably mean a party like plaid cymru would be in cabinet. >> well, they're not going to be in cabinet. no, they could have

a seat. >> they can have a seat in government. >> but i'll tell you one thing, i wouldn't actually i wouldn't actually i wouldn't actually complain because fringe party, i thought, i thought their leader , thought, i thought their leader, i thought their leader did very, very well in the, in the seven party debate the other day, i thought he was actually on the stand up. >> he was he was absolutely. >> he was he was absolutely. >> and actually, it's no bad thing if the uk government has uk representation , you know, why uk representation, you know, why would it be so terrible if people from some of the scottish and welsh parties were actually in power? >> wales's record in labour is laboun >> wales's record in labour is labour, that is labour, yes. >> ultimately these decisions have been made by the electorate. if the people of wales want to elect who are part of the uk, they want to elect plaid cymru will vote for plaid cymru then plaid cymru has a right to share in the future of this country. >> i don't particularly want to see them in government . well, see them in government. well, that's that's if they want to break up the union. >> you'll one vote as a democracy and you break. >> i don't want to see the union broken up. >> the snp plaid cymru is not actually advocating scottish independence in the short term. they do. >> no, they do want welsh independence in the short term and they want the welsh language

extended. 1717. 18% speak welsh at the moment and if you go to go to which i go to a lot, lots of welsh language signs and that's great. yeah. >> that's good. so why is that a bad thing? >> why is it a bad thing? >> why is it a bad thing? >> so you're saying it like it's a bad thing. what they want. no they're not, they're not advocating for welsh signs in england. >> no, no. but they. but what they are doing in in wales of course they're bringing loads of people into our nhs because the nhs is failing their nhs. no it's not. they have their own nhs in wales and it's devolved. absolutely. and it's a devolved issue. and, and they're bringing people into the nhs in england. they talk about worse , even w0 i'se. woi'se. >> worse. >> we talk about we talk about the nhs obviously a lot. the welsh government is not currently standing for election in the uk, and the uk labour party has , i think, quite a good party has, i think, quite a good set of plans worth pointing out. >> labour's record in wales, which is catastrophically bad. they're, as pierce says, they're sending them over here. they have the longest, wait waiting list they have. they have the longest ambulance waits. it's a waiting list across the uk have gone from 2.5 million in 20 10

gone from 2.5 million in 2010 to 7.5 million. >> and let's not forget , too, >> and let's not forget, too, that vaughan gething, the welsh leader, the first minister, just lost a vote of no confidence . lost a vote of no confidence. extraordinary. and he's still in power. he won't resign, he won't resign . resign. >> i mean, look, he said he wouldn't. >> he should have gone and he said i refused. >> he said oh no. two, two, two members of the welsh, two welsh members of the welsh, two welsh members didn't vote because they were sick. well, one of them was person he sacked from his government. andrew, look, a very convenient sickness. it reminds you of when john major had wisdom teeth problems, when mrs. thatcher wanted him to. >> i'm not, i'm not, i'm not, rm— >> i'm not, i'm not, i'm not, i'm not welsh. i'm not a representative of the welsh labour party. all i would say is that labour is currently miles ahead of the opposition in wales , so the electorate doesn't seem to be too perturbed by what's happening to the labour party in wales. and obviously the electorate in wales will have their say on the welsh ministers lost a no confidence. i'm not saying it's a good thing and obviously i think ideally when a first minister or prime minister lose the vote of confidence, they should follow. i believe so, but at the same time, the people, the people of wales will

have the chance to make their verdict on the 4th of july. >> we've also got labour launching their manifesto this morning a little bit later in the show as well. carol, did you see any of the debate last night, or have you read the headunes night, or have you read the headlines about it this morning? they both both sir keir starmer and rishi sunak came across as at at best kind of diplomat, overly diplomatic and at worst, lying. >> well, starmer, it was an interview, wasn't it wasn't. i mean, i thought sunak came across better. he was more assured, however, when starmer said when it was put to him that he had, he had supported corbyn and had said he'd be a good he was in his shadow cabinet in 2019. he then said, well, you know, i said it because i didn't. i knew that labour, that labour weren't going to win. no, he didn't know that at all. it was a total surprise when the tories won a landslide and the way that they did. but he couldn't possibly have known that. but what does that say about him as a man and as a politician that he's willing to talk, to say something to the

pubuc talk, to say something to the public he doesn't believe in, to curry favour with the leader of his party, jeremy corbyn. so he he backed him publicly. he he he said he'd make a great prime. anna sewell backed 2017 as well. and he backed his hard left policies. and now we're expected to believe these few years on, he doesn't believe in those hard line policies anymore. he's softened. he's a different man and he's totally changed. the labour party . so was he lying labour party. so was he lying back then or is he lying now ? back then or is he lying now? >> now, that's that's a good question, isn't it. >> well, i mean, i because he has dropped all ten times criticised starmer many times carol and i think that the when he said that the 2017 labour manifesto was the basis for labour's prospectus, that was something that i could get behind because i really did support the 2017 manifesto much more than the 2019 one, which was a huge mistake because it seemed just to like to bag all the 2017 manifesto and add extra to it, where it could have just sort of represented that manifesto in a slightly moderated format. but look ,

moderated format. but look, obviously when you're in a shadow cabinet and you don't want your party to completely sink, you have to sometimes get behind policies you don't agree with or yourself you have to not your party yourself, and you have to. and you have to say in pubuc have to. and you have to say in public that you support that party and that you want your leader to become prime minister. >> ask you then a couple of things. he's ditched. he's ditched abolishing tuition fees. do you agree with that? >> i support having free tuition. right. >> so you don't agree with him on that? no i don't agree. >> i don't agree with any of them. >> would abolish universal credit do you agree with that, ho. 110. >> no. >> he's changed his mind. and what about two child benefits limit? >> that's the worst of them. >> that's the worst of them. >> and that was described by a labour person as inflicting poverty on children. he's ditched so much. what does he believe in? >> i, i, i'm not privy to the inner workings of keir starmer's mind. right look, i don't think what is anyone is i do think it's really grim actually, that you have people who i like and respect, like angela rayner going on tv to talk about the triple lock for nuclear, which she feels she has to because

obviously labour has to look strong on defence. and if she if that's what she says and i believe her, but i think if we have money to make new nuclear submarines and to keep a nuclear submarines and to keep a nuclear submarine in the seas at any given time , with the nuclear given time, with the nuclear weapon ready to go off, we also have the money to end child poverty . we have the money to poverty. we have the money to end the two child labour. angela raynen end the two child labour. angela rayner, the child benefit cap i was i was incandescent where she she did a podcast where she talked about the recent investigation into her tax affairs and whatever, and she again trotted out this tired old argument about how she was attacked because a she's working. >> oh not again. b attacked because of her class, because of her education. >> you know , angela rayner talks >> you know, angela rayner talks like because of the way she grew. because she grew up on a council estate, because she grew up poor and she, she, she talks like she has this, this , like she has this, this, immunity to agree to criticism or . to anyone immunity to agree to criticism or. to anyone looking.

>> she's never said that she has a i'm sorry. >> she said diplomat. >> she said diplomat. >> he has said they're attacking her because of her working class background and because she's from the north. outraged >> it is outrageous. >> it is outrageous. >> if you're working class, you should pay your taxes. whether you're upper class or rich. no one is the same, andrew. >> no one has ever disputed that. that's not what she was alleging. >> she was being investigated because of perfectly legitimate claims . she was. but she's she claims. she was. but she's she was talking like she shouldn't be investigated. but can i let me? >> it was outrageous that the gmp ever investigated her because it was outside the statute of limitations class as an excuse for what happened to her and what she didn't do anything wrong, you know. >> well, she was cleared , but >> well, she was cleared, but she the way she was talking, she said the investigation was all about misogyny. >> the tory mps went after her. >> the tory mps went after her. >> they hate her. they have a personal agenda because her existence insults them. >> labour mps go for tory mps. it works both ways. she was visceral since andrew she did call the tories is a word . call the tories is a word. >> as a working class woman, you're doing it left wing,

working class. she comes from poverty , he comes from poverty. poverty, he comes from poverty. >> he has ideas about her station. >> pearce comes from. she is deeply offensive by and about you. >> we certainly bang on about it. if we caught out for anything. >> carol. no one is saying it's an excuse. an excuse. >> an excuse. >> if she's wrong, they are going after the campaign, she said. >> you're taxes. >> you're taxes. >> but she she did pay her taxes. could she talk about that? >> we don't know the answer to that yet. >> hmrc says hmrc no, they haven't said that. >> they haven't said that at the start of all this was how did they come across? i looked at starmer last night and i thought you're a coward. your whole election campaign has been cowardly because his tactic is his strategy is don't say anything that they can pull you up on after you've been elected. don't give a policy that you're going to row back on because he's rowed back on everything. so what he's done, he's been very vague. that is not fair to the electorate. the one thing about starmer, about sunak is that he's been clear about what

he wants to do. >> how is he? >> how is he? >> oh, carol, come on. sunak can promise anything he wants because he knows he's not gonna because he knows he's not gonna be in government. >> has been clear on is i'm going to fill in a million potholes. i'm going to ban energy drinks. >> and that's what he does. >> and that's what he does. >> let's see, the vat on private schools is a clear, positive energy. >> clear on that. >> clear on that. >> energy is a key policy as well. >> so he's not going to race in sussex where the tories where labour are hoping to make big gains. how are they going to pay for the potholes? they're cancelling a £328 million bypass that's been on the drawing board for ten years. >> it's just the whole thing. >> it's just the whole thing. >> it's just the whole thing. >> i mean, they paint with one hand and take with another cowardly election campaign on. >> it's a coward. >> it's a coward. >> carol, i agree with you. it's cowardly in the one sense that no party is prepared to be honest with the british people about what actually needs to be donein about what actually needs to be done in this country. >> well, maybe when we're talking about when we're talking about when we're talking about tax rises, for example , look, tax rises, for example, look, most people agree, including a lot of conservative voters, that britain is in a worse state now than it was in 2010. >> the public service, jonathan, we're going directly now to the most exciting moment of the election campaign, like launching their manifesto .

launching their manifesto. >> polite applause. we think that the leader is going to start it in welsh . start it in welsh. >> umma. he is speaking welsh and andrew is speaking welsh. >> so we because i don't think many of our listeners and viewers are welsh, but he is going to speak english. but until he is, we'll have a little chat.i until he is, we'll have a little chat. i think he did very well in the leaders debate. >> english. he's been english now, so let's have a listen. >> a key to any election. it's why we are here. you know, having spent every day since rishi sunak rainsoaked announcement outside downing street three weeks ago, speaking to people in all parts of wales. ihave to people in all parts of wales. i have a genuine sense that this election feels different. it feels as if more people than ever are left utterly uninspired by what either labour or the conservatives have to offer . conservatives have to offer. yes, there's a longing for change, absolutely. but it feels as if more people than ever are longing for a more hopeful, more

ambitious vision, too. and in that spirit, i'm excited to be unveiling plaid cymru vision through our manifesto today. unveiling plaid cymru vision through our manifesto today . the through our manifesto today. the common thread, which runs through this manifesto nato is fairness. firstly fair funding for wales plaid cymru is the only party advocating for the abolition of the barnett formula, which has seen wales lose out to the tune of billions of pounds now over the years. it's not a begging bowl, it's just doing what's right, enabung just doing what's right, enabling investment in public services and in the economy . services and in the economy. even lord barnett, himself the architect of that formula, back in 1978 when i was that size, said that it had passed its sell by date many years ago and scrapping it in favour of a needs based model is essential if we're to be able to adequately fund our public services and should be the bare minimum of what the next

government offers wales . government offers wales. likewise, on hs2 , the troubled likewise, on hs2, the troubled high speed rail project, because it's classed as an england and wales project , scotland and wales project, scotland and northern ireland are compensated . but of course there's not a single mile, not a single inch of hs2 track in wales and we get nothing. it's worse than that. we actually get less rail investment as a result and in line with usual compensation rules , wales is owed some £4 rules, wales is owed some £4 billion. just imagine what that could do in terms of transforming our public transport network nationwide. buses, roads , railways, buses, roads, railways, connecting our communities physically, digitally and giving our economy that desperately needed boost . and let me be needed boost. and let me be clear, this appeal for fair funding isn't driven by ideology . it's driven by principle. it's

dnven . it's driven by principle. it's driven by what is right. remember that there is nothing whatsoever that is inevitable about our poverty as a nation, nothing intrinsic to our people, which means we cannot create a thriving economy and world class pubuc thriving economy and world class public services. given the tools that we need. so to the next uk government , we say this show you government, we say this show you are serious about wales and resolve the long standing fair funding issues and show. resolve the long standing fair funding issues and show . and funding issues and show. and show that you're serious about backing our economy as an internationalist party and like labour and the conservatives, we in plaid cymru aren't afraid to call out the disastrous consequences of severing ties with the world's largest trading bloc. we have been clear, consistent and unequivocal in recent years that rejoining the single market and customs union

are vital in to order mitigate the impact of brexit on welsh business and reduce overheads and administrative costs. it's just common sense and they demand economic , of course. demand economic, of course. sinner plaid cymru. >> this is the leader of plaid cymru and carole malone and jonathan hizb ut—tahrir, and they're both brimming with excitement. >> the plaid cymru quite interesting at a general election because he's speaking in welsh at the moment. he's the leader of a party that is national mystic. it's just about wales and it's quite an odd pitch, isn't it? in a general election, we've got a party whose pitch is just we want independence, you know. >> i'm listening. independent. >> i'm listening. independent. >> i'm listening. independent. >> i'm hearing him, but i'm disconnected. i'm just not independent because it's not in the national party. >> what you're on about. >> what you're on about. >> independent as a long term aspiration. >> that's it's long term . it's >> that's it's long term. it's their objective. >> there's the snp's objective. >> there's the snp's objective. >> objective 1450 the snp is not the same as plaid cymru. >> the snp wants independence within five years. plaid cymru doesn't want that . it's not an doesn't want that. it's not an election issue. it's wrong to

frame this as it's not an election and it's not an issue. if you are someone, if you are someone in wales who feels disconnected from all the main uk parties and who wants the party that is primarily focused on wales, it's absolutely legitimate to vote for a party that promises to boost wales's voice in westminster and wales. >> in their own website, plaid cymru is a party that is committed to welsh independence. >> yes, in the long term . >> yes, in the long term. >> yes, in the long term. >> so on their own thing i literally just said to the leader now here he is, independence, right now, right? >> the link between poverty and poor housing and ill health is crippling and arguably felt more acutely in wales because of our ageing population and post—industrial legacy . it was post—industrial legacy. it was gordon brown, wasn't it, who said that child poverty is a scar on the soul of britain? labour's gordon brown if only keir starmer was making that a priority today .

priority today. and it must be a priority, not only is plaid cymru committed to scrapping the cruel and unfair two child benefit cap to which labour and the tories are shamefully wedded, we would also increase child benefit by £20 per week. this would help 330,000 welsh families to deal with the cost of living crisis, taking 60,000 children out of poverty plaid cymru on the side of a fairer future for all, especially our children . and especially our children. and these are the foundations of our vision for wales. fairness and ambition. and there is so much more that we need to do a fairer tax system, including use of windfall taxes, devolving the crown estates to create green jobs and build prosperity. a just transition commission to

give the future of welsh steel a fighting chance. as we strive for a net zero world reversing labour's cuts to business rates. support here in wales , a wales support here in wales, a wales specific covid inquiry to give victims and their loved ones the answers they deserve. building on our work to deliver a national care service for wales fair funding for our police forces and the devolution of justice rejected again by labour keeping the pension triple lock, a veto on future trade deals that undermine welsh agricultural communities and a cast iron commitment to the pursuits of global peace from ukraine to gaza. i'm proud of our offer , but more importantly, our offer, but more importantly, i know our offer is in wales's interests . in three weeks time , interests. in three weeks time, we can almost be certain that sir keir starmer will be moving into number 10 downing street.

the tories are finished , thank the tories are finished, thank goodness, but we can influence the change ahead of us, keeping the change ahead of us, keeping the incoming labour government in check, not giving them a free pass to take welsh votes , but pass to take welsh votes, but then cast wales's interests aside. i am proud to stand on a platform which offers a positive vision for our country, a genuinely positive vision for our country , which offers a real our country, which offers a real alternative to the increasingly joined up thinking of the two main uk parties and a platform which gives people the opportunity to vote for fairness, for ambition and for wales . thank you . wales. thank you. >> so he's finished. >> so he's finished. >> he's he's quite an effective speaken >> he's he's quite an effective speaker, actually . speaker, actually. >> he's a very good communicator. >> he did brilliantly, as you

say, on the debate. on the other leaders debate, the one that had the seven people in it. >> can we just pull up jonathan here so he so we can this is their manifesto . the manifesto their manifesto. the manifesto says that they absolutely want independence. it's the best way to deliver fairness. it will give the leader the levers we need to help us grow. so they are absolutely committed. >> in their manifesto, are they planning an independence referendum in the next parliament? >> well, they don't need one. they're committed to independence, which is what you've just said before, which is why people vote, said it's the long term aspiration. >> they are not talking about a referendum . referendum. >> what do you mean? well, how could you possibly have independence without a referendum ? referendum? >> because they're a legitimate party within wales. you just said they're a legitimate party, also a legitimate party, because every to what a strange argument, every single independence movement. >> well, it's not a strange requires requires a referendum. >> the snp didn't and you did say they're not. it's not about independence. they're manifestly not. i'm saying the manifesto says i'm going to read it to you. plaid cymru believes that independence is the best way to live a real fairness ambition for wales independence, to give us the leaves we really need. they're all about independence. they're all about independence.

they're not talking, they're dna. >> of course it's in their dna. it's a long term aspiration. they're not talking about independence in the next parliament. >> they'd love it in the next parliament if they can. >> i'm sure they would. but they're not talking about it. they're not proposing it because it's not achievable. they're not proposing a referendum on welsh independence in the next parliament. if they get a majority of seats of welsh seats, as the snp has done in the past , if seats, as the snp has done in the past, if we seats, as the snp has done in the past , if we get seats, as the snp has done in the past, if we get a seats, as the snp has done in the past , if we get a majority the past, if we get a majority of seats to dispel the truth , of seats to dispel the truth, their own truth, that they are a party committed to independence , party committed to independence, why is no, i'm saying they're not against it. i'm saying they're not talking about no. i'm saying they're not talking about having a referendum, which is the way that you you've just introduced the referendum two seconds ago. >> carol, you can't have independence in either scotland or wales without a majority of the people explicitly voting for it. >> i guess they could argue, of course, if they won the most seats with a 50% or more of the vote if they did. but but they could. but they're not. >> they could argue that they're not. >> they can argue for anything to be in the welsh assembly election anyway. i think it's just quite curious about their because they have i think they've got two mps currently or maybe there are 2 or 3. yeah, i

think one of them was actually kicked out of the party. >> yeah, yeah. >> yeah, yeah. >> and they don't really believe in the legitimacy of the parliament in westminster in the first place. >> i think that's a strange thing to say. the snp has been sending its mps to westminster for decades with the green party. >> they don't believe in legitimacy of the house of lords , but they've got members of the in the house of well that will thatis in the house of well that will that is something slightly different i suppose the you could defend that on the grounds that you want something to be reformed, but you have to live with what you have. >> okay. that's a that's a fair point. >> let's have a look at what some people have been saying at home this morning. daryl and jodie said, we're in wales. no to labour, no to plaid who cosied up to labour. until recently it's reformed for me now it's the only hope for the future, jeff said did you hear the tories are finished? that's what, that fella just said, that's him and nigel who were also saying that, what else have you been saying at home, wales also plaid cymru until the last month, voted for everything that has happened here. they talk about housing and poverty, but

they also encourage refugees and pay they also encourage refugees and pay £1,600 to them to do it, their manifesto here, which i was just flicking through while whilst he was talking, their statement on migration and asylum is that plaid cymru strongly opposed the conservative uk government's proposals and attitudes towards asylum seekers and refugees, including deportation to rwanda. we believe the uk should uphold the commitments when it was signed up to the refugee treaty. >> how many in there? what, how many, how many? >> one of the refugees they take in wales? we'll have to check that figure. that's plaid cymru want an open border policy. >> they do say in this manifesto. >> it's odd when they say the creation. >> and i think i imagine we would probably all agree with this, the creation of an online program, which shows an indicator of the likely outcome for an asylum application application. i still don't know why we don't have that. so that somebody could log on and say, what are my chances of being assigned a place, give you the details? we don't do it online. >> a lot of a lot of asylum seekers probably don't have. i mean, i suppose most of them do have mobile phones, i suppose,

but they'll come here anyway because they know they're going to get lost in the system because the whole system is here for 3 or 4 years. >> yeah, exactly. >> yeah, exactly. >> and then they disappear. yeah exactly. >> any moment now labour are going to unveil their election manifesto. we're expecting keir starmer to vow that labour will become the party of a wealth creation, jonathan, and make growth its priority with no tax surprises. is that going to be convincing? because i think there's a lot of people out there's a lot of people out there who don't want to vote for either labour or conservative. they're looking somewhere to put a protest vote. >> well, i think the polls disagree with you. both the polls show that a vast, not an absolute majority of voters, but of 20 points more than the next party, are planning to vote for laboun party, are planning to vote for labour, partly because they want to give the tories a kicking. >> don't you think the turnout might be low? jonathan >> i'm not sure. actually, i think that, andrew. i think that so many people are angry with the conservatives right now after everything that's happened in the last five years and indeed the last 14 years, that they will want to turn out to give the tories a kicking, that doesn't mean i agree an enthusiastic endorsement of keir starmer, but it does mean that de—man will win a huge landslide

by default. >> the leaders, keir starmer, got 16. that's that's how much the public like and trust him. 16, sunak got 20. no, no i'm sorry. he did the poll is in the papers today. there was a poll proper days ago. >> it was like 20 points ahead. >> it was like 20 points ahead. >> jonathan poll today, 20. and nigel, it's a telegraph pole. and farage 77. >> sorry , sorry, sorry, sorry. >> sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. >> sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. >> carol, are you saying that farage has an approval rating of plus 77? i've just said to you. >> listen to me, jonathan. it's a it's a poll in the telegraph today of 1600 people, which is a normal size for a poll. and it says in terms of leaders, the rating for starmer is 16. the rating for starmer is 16. the rating for starmer is 16. the rating for sunak is 20% and the rating for sunak is 20% and the rating for sunak is 20% and the rating for farage. >> i'm just trying to establish what you're saying. is it plus, like a net approval rating of 77? that's that's not possible. what did you just say there? a net approval rating. that's how these things are normally done. is it plus 16 —15. because plus 77 isn't possible. >> it's not your colour of papen >> it's not your colour of paper. but you should have a little look at it. it says that the which page.

>> which page is it. >> which page is it. >> oh well why don't you find a job? >> well, i found one from the evening standard and we're glad you can observe our research process live is today. audience. this is how it works. >> i can't where is it? >> i can't where is it? >> i can't where is it? >> i want to see where this poll is hot off the press here. >> it also says report, support for reform has doubled. >> that i can believe. but i want to know where this plus 77 find it. then i'm looking. i'm looking , find it. then i'm looking. i'm looking, i'm looking for it. i'm looking, i'm looking for it. i'm looking for it. >> i can't find it. dropping to 12 percentage points on page six, am i looking at the same? this is the thing. there's polls everywhere. >> this is predicted vote share. there's nothing about. well, let me give you. okay, fine. it's telegraph readers, carol. it's a poll of telegraph reader said that of 1500 people, you said 1600 people in the telegraph. >> i said telegraph . it's >> i said telegraph. it's a telegraph pole. telegraph readers of nearly 1600 people. and i gave you the ratings. okay >> obviously when you're having when you're having a vote of, of telegraph poll readers, that's going to be different from the nafion going to be different from the nation , because is it you really nation, because is it you really think that it would that it

would be an expected state of affairs. >> but telegraph readers to be a big supporter of nigel farage because i don't well, i do i think if you look at what the telegraph sent down over the last eight years, recently, since the last poll, his support has doubled and support for. >> okay, carol, i just have to say it's not approval rating. it's readers say it was. while 20% believe rishi sunak can connect with voters , the connect with voters, the specific question falling to 16% for sir keir starmer. now these are the figures that you gave carol. they're not absolute figures. they're on this specific question about whether he can connect. well, you didn't say that. the it's something i agree with them actually i would i would say farage can connect with voters. so i'd be in that 77. it doesn't mean i support him or i'd vote for him. >> well, well, it means that a lot of people who read the telegraph and who took part in this poll are going to vote for him, because support, that's not what you just that's not the figure you just cited. >> okay. >> okay. >> let's let's move on from this. what go on. the labour manifesto coming up, do is it going to shift any dials, jonathan, in your view, what has

he got to do. no, it's already 20 points ahead. he could walk on and say nothing. no. >> look, elections are about are about stories and narratives, right? people have made up their minds. sunak could have pledged to abolish all income tax, all vat, all national insurance , and vat, all national insurance, and it wouldn't have moved the dial because people don't believe him. they've stopped listening to him. people have decided that they're going to give starmer a chance. starmer just needs to play chance. starmer just needs to play it safe. we all agree that he's not very bold. he's he lacks some charisma. he's no tony blair blobs. >> he can't stick to a single policy, but he's going to make a very, very narrow set of commitments and it will be enough. >> would i like him to bolder? yes. >> we read it that we know he's going to talk about. he's going to talk about wealth creation and growth priority. that means nothing. there's nothing concrete in that. it's just words. and he will do exactly the same. >> i was debating i was debating the campaign last night with kevin maguire on the love canal . kevin maguire on the love canal. maguire. yeah. and i said, kevin said kevin. i said, kevin. the whole strategy of labour is predicated on creating growth .

predicated on creating growth. how are they going to do that? there's no tax cuts to stimulate demand. none whatsoever. and it seems to me it's all about reforming the planning system. is that really the way to kick start growth in economy, reforming the planning system? good luck with that. because every government in the last 20 years has said we're going to reform the planning system. >> keynesian economics isn't about keynesian economics, isn't about keynesian economics, isn't about what they're going to do for the next four years. >> they're going to blame everything that they fail on. on the tories. >> that's exactly mcguire said that he said, well, we can obviously they'll play. >> they'll blame things on the tories because the tories have beenin tories because the tories have been in power for 14 years. they've run the country into the ground. >> they've said they're going to change all that, johnson said. they're going to do it. they're going to change everything that excuse will run, will become. >> i think it'll take them through a couple of years at least. i'm not saying they should be using excuse. i'm saying it's true. after party's beenin saying it's true. after party's been in for 14 years and done things you completely disagreed with. you have to build on that wreckage. it's takes time. you can't just sort of transform a country overnight. >> no one expects to see very shortly after the election is that they will they will do nothing on rwanda if people keep on talking about how well they said they're going to stop rwanda. the tories have failed with immigration on everything the tories have tried to do

through parliament. labour have voted down. so you can't just blame the tories for failing because they haven't agreed with the tory policies. >> they're allowed to vote them down. they're the opposition. >> but you're missing the point again. so rishi had a plan and he he believed the plan would work, as did a lot of people in this country. and the tories have time and time and time again have voted to doubt, as have the lords have tried to thwart it. so so it's not that the tories haven't tried to kerb immigration. they absolutely have. but they've been thwarted. >> well, well, they've been thwarted by the supreme court. >> they've been thwarted by the labour party. well, the labour party is the sorry, the labour party is the sorry, the labour party is the opposition. >> they're allowed to oppose government policies, voting it down is not an insult to democracy. it's what they're meant to do. >> let us see what they do in the first six months to bring down immigration, to smash the gangs as starmer. >> it's going to go through the roof. >> let's well, let it go through the roof. >> i, as i've said many, many times , i am not aligned with times, i am not aligned with labour's policy on migration. so i'm not going to be defending it on its own. but i'm very much looking forward to attacking a labour government rather than a conservative government i'm looking forward to attacking and criticising a labour government

from the left . i'm looking from the left. i'm looking forward to supporting the labour government when i think they're doing things right. >> i preferjeremy corbyn to >> i prefer jeremy corbyn to still be labour leader. no, i no , no i wouldn't actually i think that starmer is i think that he has the qualities that could make a good leader. >> i'm reserving judgement. >> i'm reserving judgement. >> his qualities are interesting . justin, what do you think? >> i think that he . look, i'm >> i think that he. look, i'm sad that i'm sad that he got rid of his pledges, but i think that he is actually a decent person. i think he's a decent. i think that he's a decent. he is a quality, isn't it? i think that he has. i think that he has empathy. i think that he wants to. i don't think he's in it. i don't think he's in it for himself. i don't think that he's a narcissist or a grifter. i think that he's very ruthless, which i suppose in politics is a kind of is a kind of quality. he will do what he thinks is necessary to win, which is what you need in politics. corbyn certainly didn't have that. >> i think what i'm starting to find problematic about sir keir starmer is every time he goes on stage, he talks about the fact, oh, my father was a tool. >> oh my god, it's because a lot of people haven't heard it. >> but oh please, please. they laugh. when he said it last

night, i fell about laughing. >> grimsby has a very sophisticated balderdash ometer, let's put it that way. yeah. and they laughed out loud when he said that last night. i love the fact that that audience was. >> well, they laughed at alan sunak because of the sunak invoked the junior doctors. >> they did laugh at that. >> they did laugh at that. >> but i think what i'm finding problematic, this idea that when he was, department of public prosecutions, so he was somehow he goes on about his public service. out of that, he became caphal service. out of that, he became capital. he establishment, he got a knighthood, he got an amazing pension . he got a great amazing pension. he got a great salary. yeah. he talks about that time in his life as though he was sort of making all of these sacrifices for the country. he wasn't he wasn't, he wasn't. >> he's not talking about when he was dpp. he was making sacrifices. >> that's how he describes when he was a life of service. and i made the most difficult decisions. hang on a minute. >> you became you became 100. so he's saying the people. so he's saying the people. >> if people are people are sort of giving, doing public service, they should do it for free. i mean, that's that's a new argument, but don't then sell it as though somehow you were because he wasn't. he's never said that. >> and of course, when he was in

the shadow cabinet, he was earning an absolute shedload of extra money as a lawyer. >> well, andre, do you want to talk about mbappe second job? so that's a conversation i'd be happy to have now, he says. >> labour mps shouldn't have second jobs. he had one. >> well, well, look, i mean, i think that but he had a lot of scandals, this question. >> but do we want to hear anything of what angela rayner says. >> no, we're just going to carry on. apparently we're not. well, we know what it's going to be. >> i'm always outnumbered on this panel. it's not fair to have three against one all the time. >> how quickly do you think she's going to say, i had my first baby when i was 16? >> andrew. >> andrew. >> andrew, that's a cheap shot. thatis >> andrew, that's a cheap shot. that is a cheap shot. there is no, no, there are so many people in. this is a serious point. there are so many people in politics that have had a gilded life, that have had the easiest ride up to the top, whether it's through, sort of private schools or just through, sort of private schools orjust a connections. andrew or just a connections. andrew rayner came from absolute poverty. >> can i ask you to answer the question? how quickly do you think she's going to mention it? >> i don't know, but if she does mention his, she has every right to do in the first 5 to 7 minutes. she has every right to do so because she has a fantastic why does she have a right to keep on banging on about her class, why we all know

where she came from. >> we've heard it enough times, but she's got to stop using it as a way. would you rather curry? >> would you rather she talked about how she was denied sky tv as a child , well that's stupid. as a child, well that's stupid. >> that's a stupid argument to answer. you are asked a question and that's a silly argument which shows you don't have one, frankly. >> oh, come on, carol, it was a joke. no, but it is silly. >> that's what you. that's what. that's what the left does when they can't answer something. >> we don't get accused of having no sense of humour. >> come on, make your mind up. what the left normally gets accused of being humourless. and when we make a joke, we get attacked for that as well. well, that wasn't a joke, johnson. well, it was a joke. the sky tv thing was actually quite funny. >> the thing is, what she's trying to do, what is angela rayner trying to do when she talks about though? >> that humble background and curry favour? well, she's trying to, i suppose , appeal to other to, i suppose, appeal to other women who might be in a similar situation to say you too can be like me. maybe she's selling the idea of social mobility, that it doesn't just have to be lots of pubuc doesn't just have to be lots of public schoolboys in the corridors of power and i'm all

right with that. so. but but why is she there for so it's so she's very alienating somehow she's very alienating somehow she doesn't quite hit the right note with that, which i think is a very important message . a very important message. >> you say that she's alienating. obviously some people don't like her. other people don't like her. other people in focus groups, they bnng people in focus groups, they bring her up repeatedly as someone that they can connect with really? well, i've, i sort of read all the people who run focus groups and they say she comes up a lot as someone who actually is like an ordinary person, unlike the identikit sort of male politicians that come through the same routes of ppe at oxford from private schools, etc. and he look and sound the same, and she does not look and sound like a lot of other politicians in this country. >> you know why it's a risk? because we have a long standing tradition in this country of trusting people who talk posh and went to private school doffing caps, and we do doff our caps. we do tuck our forelocks at authority and the elite . at authority and the elite. >> you make a very you make a really good point when you say it. she she can and probably is an inspiration to some people

who who are struggling and want to aspire to more . and that is to aspire to more. and that is absolutely legitimate. when she does that, when it's not legitimate is when she's being attacked for something, doing something wrong politically, when she's being attacked , then when she's being attacked, then bnng when she's being attacked, then bring up her background and say they are attacking me because i'm working. >> she's allowed to make she's allowed to make that charge. it's not true. well, she's well, that's what you say. that's what she she says it is. she's allowed to think that cowardly . allowed to think that cowardly. it's not cowardly because she's. there was a complete camp. she's already proved her class. there was a huge campaign against her. she. look the thing is that when she has managed to get, she has managed to get to the top. and a lot of people are very resentful of that because they because a lot of people on the concert in the conservative establishment feel that she's so rayner has finished her speech. >> we've we're now getting the iceman boss of ice, former tory, the man who richard walker wrote to rishi sunak demanding a safe seat when he didn't get one. he

then got us. he then joined the labour party. he's a man of great political conviction . great political conviction. clearly he's now talking to the laboun clearly he's now talking to the labour, the labour gathering . labour, the labour gathering. well, i mean, what sort of conviction is that, jonathan? >> well, i've never been a conservative. >> andrew, you should ask me if the letter the tories leaked the letter, a grovelling letter to he said please, please can i have a safe seat? >> please, please, please. and when you didn't get one, he went off to the labour. >> i'm thrilled. >> i'm thrilled. >> he's seen the light he wants to be in. all right. i'm going to be in. all right. i'm going to play devil's advocate. maybe richard walker, because i like his shops. maybe he wants to be in politics so much and he doesn't think ideologically. there's that much to split between them. >> price, power and price. >> price, power and price. >> maybe he feels like he wants to make a difference and he doesn't have that choice . doesn't have that choice. >> ngannou have to make a difference in the conservative party going to iceland on principle, it would mean he would be a politician without conviction . conviction. >> yeah, yeah. heaven forbid, heaven forbid . heaven forbid. >> no, that's not true, beth. come on. we can't tar everyone with the same brush. oh, but even someone like jacob rees—mogg, who i loathe politically, he has convictions. they just happen to be the wrong ones. >> right? >> right? >> we've just been talking

about. and karl and i agree that maybe angela rayner has a positive message about social mobility. fine and being able to drag yourself up in work and education and get there and work hard, blah, blah, blah. however, their policies , such as attacks their policies, such as attacks on private schools is absolutely anti aspiration. like show me your show me in your policies where you're going to support that social mobility and encourage competition and encourage competition and encourage aspiration and encourage aspiration and encourage the hard work of the individual , encourage the hard work of the individual, which angela rayner would say she represents. where's that in their policies ? where's that in their policies? >> our country? >> our country? >> well, we're about to hear the manifesto. obviously if you're trying to improve growth that is going to be hopefully improving social mobility . as i say, i social mobility. as i say, i very much like them to scrap the two child benefit cap. that is the easiest way to lift children out of poverty. whatever you think about parents, it's not it's not going to do children's. he says he will when the time when it when there's enough money. >> he became labour leader. he said he would scrap it. he's changed his policy. >> yes. and he says that when there's enough money to do so,

he'll do it. i think i happen to think it's a priority. we will disagree on that, he and i, but these are policies that talks about poverty, children in poverty. >> and yet he's not going to do that change that policy. >> well, he would argue that he is going to put other policies in forward that will help to lift children out of poverty by improving educational standards. so by by taking money from the vat on private schools into the state sector, for example, breakfast for every child, which every middle class child, upper class child is going to get a free breakfast out of this government. >> but they won't extend child benefit to families which got 3 or 4 kids. does that does that make any sense ? make any sense? >> well, i think that it's the wrong i think it's the wrong priority. i think that we should be lifting the benefit cap. i absolutely agree with you. why >> why is the government providing breakfast? because i think that children mum and dad in london, in london now sadiq khan has already enacted that for lunch time, lunch umms breakfast. >> let's just feed everyone. >> let's just feed everyone. >> well, actually . >> well, actually. >> well, actually. >> well, actually. >> well, actually, it's not such a i don't think it's such a i don't think it's such a bad policy to ensure that children

have proper nutrition and that because that is obviously to do that without buying everyone, that without buying everyone, thatis that without buying everyone, that is a parent's job. >> you can't you can't do that without buying. everyone's not. >> there are a lot of children who go to school hungry in this country right now. and obviously not because the parents can't afford an egg. >> yeah, exactly. there are lots of reasons why we've got to stop making excuses. >> i think people i think they should, i think they should. i'm against that policy. >> we're going to give free breakfast to middle class kids whose parents can well afford to feed them for all of us. >> i think that there there, there may there may be absolutely areas where labour has got its priorities wrong. and i'm saying repeatedly i'm prepared to criticise labour, where i think they're getting things wrong and this is one of them. so you can keep asking the question as many times as you like. and i'm still going to give you the same. >> the man from iceland, mr shifts political convictions when it suits him. it's just arade dam. there's another person at the panel and let's see if we can work out what that is. >> he's just listening on the radio. this is in manchester. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> i'm not sure who that is. no >> i'm not sure who that is. no >> for a second, i thought it was vladimir zelenskyy. >> this is. oh, this is a local.

>> this is. oh, this is a local. >> this is. oh, this is a local. >> this is a local telling us his personal story about why we should for vote labour. so we'll carry on talking amongst ourselves, the. let's have a chat about what do you think about the lib dem leader hurting himself in the water all the time, getting noticed. >> you know, the weird thing about elections is you. you're forced to look at the weird, odd little nerdy parties. >> little. and come on. >> little. and come on. >> and the lib dems are one of those parties and. and you know, he has done you're offending a lot of people to be in opposition who could eclipse the conservatives. >> it could be the official opposition party, you know, little party. i mean, not as weird as the greens, but they're anyway carole malone tour of the fence continues . fence continues. >> the greens have a charm offensive without the charm. >> currently have one mp who was actually chucking in the towel. >> can we just say what is the green leader called? >> what? her name is carla denyen >> what is? she described herself as a pansexual, atheist quaker . quaker. >> good for her. this is the leader of the greens. she's just. what's wrong with that? >> i said sexual atheist, quaker , atheist. >> quaker. that sounds great to me. what's wrong with it?

>> nerdy little harsh. >> nerdy little harsh. >> she should have better things to do than spend so much time trying to work out her identity title. >> she is she talking about this on the podium of the debates? is this or is this a question that she gave in? this is an answer that she gave in response to a question. >> did she think that india's her though to vote may vote really? because, you know, there was it's not even that. >> it just means she's weird. she's a woman. >> sorry. it just well, sorry. >> sorry. it just well, sorry. >> which part of that is weird being a quaker, being an atheist, being pansexual, which is all of them together, sexual. sexual means that you are not attracted to your attractive individuals. you know, that could be from any sex. >> so what? so you're bisexual? asexual? yeah. >> it's just a different way of talking about it. i'm not a i'm not an expert. it's not something that i identify with. but as i understand it, it means that you are kind of you have a kind of a universal. >> it's ridiculous. it is ludicrously pretentious. woman is presuming to be. >> she could technically, she's running to be prime minister because she's leading. >> do you think the khalife daniel hagari pansexual look at some of the other policy of the

greens, apart from the ones they talked about yesterday? >> but there's some they you know, they advocate bev, you would be interested. they advocate , childbirth without advocate, childbirth without medical intervention . who do the medical intervention. who do the greens. >> they think they scrap that policy now. >> so childbirth childbirth without intervention and they so, so every mother would like childbirth without intervention. but sometimes you have to have a bit of it or people die, as we saw in shrewsbury and telford , saw in shrewsbury and telford, with that kind of mindset. so that i think is quite a dangerous policy and i don't quite understand how they square the fact that they want to give every child in the country free school meals rich, the ones of billionaires and the ones of people on council, free school meals, however, they want to introduce a wealth tax , which if introduce a wealth tax, which if you look at the countries that have introduced wealth taxes , have introduced wealth taxes, you know, people like finland, iceland, france, luxembourg, they all had to repeal those taxes because what happened was the administrative costs were cost more than the revenue raise. >> the best phrase i heard recently about the greens, because they are so well, they were described as being communist basically. and they

said they're watermelons. green on the outside, red on the inside . inside. >> and by the way, pansexuality another person . another person. >> we're going back to manchester, another local is going to tell us who's heartwarming story. another man, white, white, another white man. this is interesting that they're not using any women or people of colour. i thought they would, but we don't want to listen to daniel. we're going to carry on. let's talk about labour because it is a manifesto, keir starmer is dull. does that matter? >> i think it matters hugely. >> i think it matters hugely. >> you know, he's like mogadon when he starts talking. seriously, i switch off and when he starts doing it in earnest, when he's running, he's overdosed on. >> i'm not sure who the target voter, carol, you know, the thing is the thing we'll go back to that telegraph poll, the thing that the people in this country want, and it's becoming clear they want a leader. >> they want someone who connects with them, someone who who they feel understands them. i don't think starmer makes it on any of those levels . he's on any of those levels. he's he's literally the most boring man on the planet, and he really is. and i think when he gets to be steve davis has something to say to you. well, well steve

davis yeah . but say to you. well, well steve davis yeah. but he's say to you. well, well steve davis yeah . but he's not say to you. well, well steve davis yeah. but he's not he's not trying to be prime minister and he isn't going to be prime minister >> is that the snooker player? >> is that the snooker player? >> yes, steve. >> yes, steve. >> interesting. >> interesting. >> davis trying to bring him in steve. >> interesting. davis is his nickname steve. >> interesting. yeah. well but he's not trying to be prime minister. >> keir starmer unkind . just >> keir starmer unkind. just play >> keir starmer unkind. just play snooker anymore. >> he's retired , he's retired. >> he's retired, he's retired. >> he's retired, he's retired. >> and he's hugely wealthy, cruel, cruel. he's hugely wealthy. he won't be. >> somebody said somebody else getting in touch about richard walker, the owner of iceland, who we just saw there, that andrew was terribly unkind about. he said he's another champagne socialist. but then again , when you have a reported again, when you have a reported personal wealth of £250 million he's worth, you can be. which is surprising, as labour are a party that does not like aspiration or entrepreneurs. >> and it was, and it was angela raynen >> and it was, and it was angela rayner. did i tell you i had a child when i was 16? >> i don't say andrew, stop it. >> i don't say andrew, stop it. >> she she has a heart. she has a great story to tell. and i think we've heard it so many times. >> we've heard it so often . >> we've heard it so often. jonathan, even you're laughing. she's told us it's so often we

could write the script. >> yes. it's just. >> and i was a grandmother when i was 36. >> yes, yes, yes. oh, no no. >> oh come on andrew. no. come on either we either we want people like angela rayner in politics or we don't. which is it? i think it's actually fantastic to have people who look like angela and sound like her more than people who look and sound like me. okay. >> why does it matter what? >> why does it matter what? >> so what she looks like? >> so what she looks like? >> it's about the story where she comes from. >> is that because she's got red hair? >> no, but a working class woman to go through into. >> she looks like a working class woman. is that what you're saying? >> no, i'm not saying that. >> no, i'm not saying that. >> you really are digging a hole. >> i'm not saying that as you well know. well, you said you said what she looks like. >> so we're asking you to explain that. >> okay, well, i'm talking about her overall overall story , her overall overall story, background, etc. that's what's important . important. >> and the interesting thing about this launch is they're building up to the big moment. and it's not going to be exciting when it happens because it's dull. >> now. i mean, you know, we can hear about what's going on and it's still already . so you know,

it's still already. so you know, exactly. they're not exactly. >> well, we haven't got to the leader of the party yet. come on. give him a chance. >> usually when you have a warm up act, it makes the audience want more. >> it warms them up. you get someone who's entertaining and funny. >> i think a lot of people probably, you know, switched off exactly. >> with the greatest. i'm not sure that many people are watching the live manifesto. let's just see what our what our friends at home are saying as they're listening to us. >> we are obviously waiting for sir keir starmer to take to the stage. gillian has said i would prefer to pay my taxes to educate, empower and enable parents to take responsibility for parenting their own children and promoting their own family's health and well—being . certainly health and well—being. certainly i don't want to pay taxes to provide breakfast for all the nation's children and tooth brushing classes . whoever would brushing classes. whoever would vote for this? there is a real sense and it does. it does worry me. actually, jonathan, this idea that this labour government is going to very much become a i don't i'm not a big fan of the phrase nanny state. >> i am because that's what we're going to get. >> but but it really does seem to ring true on this occasion. >> it's not a nanny state, bev is when you're talking about adults, when you're telling adults, when you're telling adults what to do, educating children who might come from very, very deprived backgrounds,

very, very deprived backgrounds, very poor backgrounds about, you know, sort of basic dental hygiene, paying the parents, the children , that's what their children, that's what their policy say is you parents, you aren't good enough to look after your own children. >> they're infantilizing the adults. you're not cleaning their teeth. you're not giving them breakfast. we're going to do that instead of you. it's even more of a nanny state. >> we are having situations where schools are having to provide all of the nutritional needs for children in schools , needs for children in schools, where schools are having to install washing facilities so they can wash the kids uniforms because they can't do that at home. we have a crisis of poverty. rather than saying, i'm sorry , sort of infantilizing, sorry, sort of infantilizing, empowering poor people by suggesting i'm saying fat to carol, i'm i'm saying fat schools are installing washing machines. >> jonathan. >> jonathan. >> that's not of course they are. >> tosh . >> tosh. >> tosh. >> schools are literally setting up washing machines. carol >> not because they're lazy. >> not because they're lazy. >> well, then why is it then? >> well, then why is it then? >> laziness. >> laziness. >> no you don't. >> no you don't. >> when you send your kids to school in a dirty uniform or in a nappy because you haven't

bothered to potty train them at the age of two and you send them to school at five, unable to toilet. that is sloppy. parrington i'm sorry you don't have to be poor for that. it's insulting to poor people. >> look, there are there are people. there are people living in absolute poverty in this country. much, far more than there were. we didn't have a food banks crisis 15 years ago. >> i can hear my mother's voice in my ear now, and she'd be saying, we didn't have a washing machine . so we washed our hands machine. so we washed our hands by clothes. we washed our clothes by hand . clothes by hand. >> do you remember the ball? >> do you remember the ball? >> we hung them on the line. >> we hung them on the line. >> and did your mum have a washing? my mum had a washing board. yeah, and it wasn't a washing machine. it was a thing. and you rubbed the clothes up and down. >> are we going to blame children for the fault? >> you've moved the goalposts. >> you've moved the goalposts. >> are we? but this is the point. so children have the right to have education in their and nutrition in schools. >> teachers who are frightened to say to the parents, you need to say to the parents, you need to wash your kids clothes. >> they need to shower every day. you need to give them breakfast that we've got this really strange dynamic now in

schools whereby we're happy with the government telling us how to or dealing with looking after our own children. but we're very uncomfortable. teachers are uncomfortable. teachers are uncomfortable with stepping in and actually, i would say that is helping. i don't think that's necessarily criticising those parents. it's some of them literally don't think it is helping wash my kids clothes. they just don't. they're just not even thinking about it. >> but when you have also bev, we've talked about this before , we've talked about this before, there is also a mental health crisis in this country, and there will be a lot of parents who are affected by it, and they are they are finding it difficult to cope in all kinds of ways. and rather than sort of, you know, going through this old sort of trope about feckless parents or whatever, why don't we focus on the absolute needs, the absolute needs of the children who have done nothing wrong? we can't blame the children for anything. and children. there will be children who, for whatever reason, don't come to school in clean clothes, don't come to school having brushed their teeth or wash, and schools will need to step in as a kind of governmental parental figure. >> this argument, and the final one was the mental health

argument. >> let the holly or polly. >> let the holly or polly. >> this is holly, first time voter said that the labour party is for young people discussed. >> jonathan is the labour party for young. why do i feel so ganged up on in this panel? >> i look, i look, i think that the labour party certainly more of a party for young people than the conservatives. they're not. because because the people will be right. i think when you i think it's like eight, i think it's 8% or something like that of under what, 40 are going to be voting. actually, i think it might be even more than under 40 are going to be voting conservative. obviously, i would love labour to have a policy that they had until recently, which was free university tuition, because we see how so many young people are getting into debt in order to go to university , which is a really university, which is a really important stage, for , for many important stage, for, for many people, as they, as they make their way through life , the their way through life, the conservatives have pitched themselves absolutely squarely as the as the party for pensioners with this sort of triple lock plus with sort of national service, you know, this

idea that's designed obviously not to appeal to young people , not to appeal to young people, but designed to appeal to a generation of people that didn't actually do national service themselves, but think it's a goodidea themselves, but think it's a good idea for younger people to do. and so by default, they're going to be more the party of young people. do i think they have a range of policies that are actively, directly targeting young people? maybe not. >> nobody does votes to six votes to 16 votes for 16. >> absolutely. you're like, how many how many 16 year olds are keir starmer? >> and he's not wearing jacket. >> he's got his sleeves rolled up, sleeve shirt , and that's up, sleeve shirt, and that's a cultivator . i just don't know cultivator. i just don't know why he hasn't got a jacket on. >> thank you very much . thank >> thank you very much. thank you . you.thank you. thank you very much . thank

you. thank you very much. thank you, ange, for your introduction, for everything that you're doing. i think i'm taking your bus this afternoon. thank you, richard, for your words. thank you, daniel, for reminding us why we're doing what we're doing. nathaniel i've heard your story before, but every single time it gets to me and i'm sure gets to every single person that listens to what you say. and i'm, humbled by your determination to make sure that things are better for those in the next generation. and holly, that was fantastic. that was really holly is 18 years old. anybody who stood on a stage like this knows how hard it is for all of us to stand up here. that's the first time holly has done anything like this in her life. holly has done anything like this in her life . that's this in her life. that's fantastic. holly . fantastic. holly. and taken together , isn't this

and taken together, isn't this clear evidence of a changed labour party and clear evidence of the change we need for our country? a changed. thank you very much . the same old tory very much. the same old tory policy. >> yeah , we gave up on being >> yeah, we gave up on being a party of protest five years ago. >> we want to be a party of power . power. and that's not in the script, but that is part of the change. and holly can i also say at the start of this that this party respects and will never forget the contribution that your generation made during the pandemic ? thank you so much . and

pandemic? thank you so much. and thank you all for coming to manchester. thank you all for the hard work that's gone into this campaign so far into this project. four and a half years of work changing our party to put it back in the service of working people. and now the next step, the most important step is changing britain, rebuilding our country so that it to serve the interests of working people. and what a place to launch our plan to do so. the home of the co—operative group, an organisation . in. an organisation. in. an organisation. in. an organisation that has long believed, as we do, that the pursuit of social justice and economic growth must go hand in hand.a economic growth must go hand in hand. a day where i am proud in

this place, in this city to launch labour's general election manifesto a manifesto for wealth creation, a plan to change britain . britain. because today we can turn the page. because today we can turn the page . today we can lay a new page. today we can lay a new foundation of stability . and on foundation of stability. and on that foundation we can start to rebuild britain. a britain renewed by an old argument that we serve working people as their ambition drives our country forward . because there is so forward. because there is so much potential in this country, so much possibility , if we stand so much possibility, if we stand together as four nations and back , the ambition people have

back, the ambition people have for their family and their community. i see it everywhere i go . so potential held back . i go. so potential held back. i spoke to will. he's a fireman in milton keynes. he works really hard . what he wants. his dream hard. what he wants. his dream is to own his own home, a roof over his head that he can call his own, as well as a firefighter. he's got two other jobs, but he can't afford a mortgage. his dream will not be realised. it's the price he's paying. i went to alder hey hospital not far from here. it is a brilliant children's hospital . absolutely brilliant. hospital. absolutely brilliant. and the day i went in, i went to the ward where they were doing operations on nought to two year old children. heart operations. it's incredible to just see what they do. the courage of the individuals in their heart, surgery, the brilliance of the nhs staff. i found that totally

humbling, completely uplifting until i found out that at alder hey hospital, until i found out that at alder hey hospital , the commonest hey hospital, the commonest cause for admissions for operations for 6 to 10 year olds is children going there to have their teeth taken out because they're decaying. that is the price that they are paying . so price that they are paying. so just imagine imagine if instead a labour government gives will and daniel the affordable homes that they need. imagine if instead a labour government tackles the rot of tooth decay. imagine what those nurses and doctors could do with a labour government on their side . government on their side. now, don't get me wrong , these now, don't get me wrong, these challenges don't disappear overnight . if labour wins, we overnight. if labour wins, we don't have a magic wand. but what we do have , what this

what we do have, what this manifesto represents, is a credible long term plan. a plan built on stable foundations with clear first steps, tough spending rules that will keep taxes and inflation low, nhs waiting times cut with 40,000 extra appointments every week, a border security command to smash the criminal smuggling gangs great british energy to cut bills in your home for good. more police in your town cracking down on anti—social behaviour and 6500 new teachers in your school. giving your children the start in life that they deserve . they deserve. but also a plan that is much more than a list of policies. it's a plan for change, for growth , for giving our children

growth, for giving our children their future back , a chance to their future back, a chance to refocus politics on the things that matter to your family , the that matter to your family, the era of sticking plaster politics, the chaos and division replaced by a government back in the service of you and your family . and make no mistake, family. and make no mistake, thatis family. and make no mistake, that is the cause of this changed labour party. we have written that argument out through every word of this manifesto because it's urgent. britain's lost its balance . it britain's lost its balance. it is too hard for working people to get on. opportunity is not spread evenly enough , and too spread evenly enough, and too many communities are not just locked out of the wealth that we create , they're disregarded as create, they're disregarded as sources of dynamism in the first place, ignored by the toxic idea

that economic growth is something the few hand down to the many. today we turn the page on that forever . on that forever. because that idea is part of the story of the past 14 years, part of everything they put you through when they crashed the pound to give tax cuts to the richest 1, when they decimated your public services because of a mess made by banks , when they a mess made by banks, when they failed to invest in clean british energy . so we were british energy. so we were exposed when putin invaded ukraine, that idea was there a tory inability to face the future rather than change, reform and strengthen government so that it can intervene in partnership with to business give you and your family

stability in this insecure world. and it doesn't matter how many new policies the tories throw at the wall, hoping that some of them will stick, none of them face up to the reality of this future. but mark, my words, this future. but mark, my words, this changed. labour party will we have a plan in this manifesto? a total change of direction, laser focused on our cause, stability, growth, investment and reform ? a investment and reform? a government back in the service of your family. government back in the service of your family . ready to change of your family. ready to change britain . britain. we will restore the foundations of good government, national security, border security , security, border security, economic security. we will make new choices to reform our economy and public services . economy and public services. hard choices, choices ducked for

years. these choices will be fully funded and fully costed. thatis fully funded and fully costed. that is non—negotiable . you that is non—negotiable. you cannot play fast and loose with the public finances as we've lived through the damage that this does . government. we have this does. government. we have now played fast and loose with the finances and working people. pay the price . just after liz pay the price. just after liz truss's mini—budget, i went to wolverhampton a week or so afterwards and i met there a couple. they had a three year old child . they decided they old child. they decided they want a second child. they'd chosen a new home that was big enough to accommodate their new family . they got a mortgage family. they got a mortgage offer that they could afford . offer that they could afford. liz truss crashed the economy, their mortgage offer went through the roof. they couldn't afford it . they pulled out. they afford it. they pulled out. they couldn't move to their new home. they felt they were held back. but they also took the decision that they could no longer afford

to have a second child. and they will live with that for the rest of their lives. that's the price that they're paying. so i make no apologies for being careful with working people's money and no apology for rolling out tax rises on working people . and rises on working people. and this isn't just the election. don't think it's just politics. this is an issue of conviction . this is an issue of conviction. i don't believe it's fair to raise taxes on working people when they're already paying this much, particularly in a cost of living crisis . so let me spell living crisis. so let me spell it out . we will not raise income it out. we will not raise income tax. we will not raise national insurance. we will not raise vat . that is a manifesto commitment

and another thing , because there and another thing, because there may be some people here today who say , where's the surprise? who say, where's the surprise? where's the rabbit ? out of the where's the rabbit? out of the hat? to which i say , if you want hat? to which i say, if you want politics as pantomime , i hear politics as pantomime, i hear clacton is nice this time of year. yeah but seriously, we have to come to terms with this . britain to terms with this. britain needs stability, not more chaos . needs stability, not more chaos. i set out our long term plan in this room. 18 months ago. and that plan stands because it's the right plan . we did the work the right plan. we did the work properly. our responsibility is to give a clear direction to businesses, communities everywhere . varne invested in everywhere. varne invested in britain's future. we took that seriously. so yes , those five

seriously. so yes, those five national missions higher growth, safer streets, cleaner energy, more opportunity, the nhs back on its feet. they remain at the core of this manifesto . but if core of this manifesto. but if they are to offer hope and clarity through these times, if they are to show that despite they are to show that despite the hard road, the light of the certain destination, then we must keep to that road, no matter the short term ebbs and flows of politics, even in a campaign . that's what mission campaign. that's what mission dnven campaign. that's what mission driven government means , a driven government means, a chance to stop us bobbing along until the next crisis blows us off course and instead makes sure we can keep going through the storm. stability over chaos long term, over short term, an end to the desperate era of gestures and gimmicks, and a return to the serious business of rebuilding our country.

and on that foundation of stability, we start to rebuild a rebuilding that must begin, first and foremost, with new choices on economic growth that is the mandate we seek from britain at this election . a britain at this election. a mandate for economic growth . mandate for economic growth. because the way we create wealth in this country is broken. it leaves far too many people feeling insecure. people who are working hard and doing the right thing . so we will reform it and thing. so we will reform it and we will keep on reforming it until it delivers for them . until it delivers for them. wealth creation is our number one priority. vie growth is our core business. the only route to

improving the prosperity of our country and the living standards of working people. and that's why we made it our first national mission in government. but we must change our approach so that it comes from every community, not just shared with every community. redistribute labuschagne can't be a one word plan for our poorest towns and regions . no, we need to give regions. no, we need to give them the tools they need to back their pride and potential growth for every community. growth from every community. that is the path to national renewal. and now some people say that how you grow the economy is not a central question, that it's not about how you create wealth, but how you tax it, how you spend it, how you slice the cake .

it, how you slice the cake. that's all that matters. so let me be crystal clear. this manifesto is a total rejection of that argument. manifesto is a total rejection of that argument . because if you of that argument. because if you transform the nature of the jobs market, if you transform the infrastructure that supports investment in our economy, if you reform the planning regime, start to unlock the potential of billions upon billions of pounds worth of projects that are ready to go , held up by the blockers to go, held up by the blockers of , then clearly that does so of, then clearly that does so much more for our long term growth prospects . and the same growth prospects. and the same is true of public services . if is true of public services. if we grew the economy at anything like the rate of the last labour government, we'd have tens of billions of pounds worth of investment for our public services every year. so if you take nothing else away from today , let it be this, this

today, let it be this, this changed. labour party has a plan for growth . we are pro—business for growth. we are pro—business and pro—worker. the party of wealth creation . wealth creation. we will reform the planning rules , a choice ignored for 14 rules, a choice ignored for 14 years and built the homes and infrastructure you need. we will level up your rights at work, a choice ignored for 14 years, and raise your wages and your security vie. we will create a new industrial strategy , a new industrial strategy, a choice ignored for 14 years and we will back it with a national wealth fund. invest best in clean steel, new ports, gigafactories and we will create 650,000 new jobs for communities like yours . relight the fires of like yours. relight the fires of renewal across all four of our great nations .

great nations. you can choose a different path. you can choose a different path. you have the power. you can choose to take back control from westminster. more democracy for your community. new powers over transport skills, employment, unlock the pride and potential in every community that is a different choice. you can make . different choice. you can make. you can cut your bills for good with a new energy company funded by a tax on the oil and gas giants owned by the taxpayer , giants owned by the taxpayer, making money for the taxpayer, powering your home with clean british energy. that is a different choice. you can make .

different choice. you can make. and you can choose to get our nhs back on its feet , end the nhs back on its feet, end the atm, scramble back our nhs staff get the best technology in their hands. slash waiting lists in your hospital funded by taking on the non—doms and tax avoiders. that is a different choice. you can make . choice. you can make. and i'll tell you another choice. you can make. you can choose to live in a country that believes in and backs its young people. the future of our country . country. i am fed up with politicians

lecturing young people about their responsibility to our nation. when those politicians fail in their responsibility to the future . the future. and after what young people did during the pandemic , people did during the pandemic, what they gave up for people, let's be blunt, more at risk than them that adds insult to injury . but than them that adds insult to injury. but more than them that adds insult to injury . but more than that, it injury. but more than that, it tears up the unwritten contract, the bonds of respect that hold these four great nations together. the values that make us who we are, the responsibilities we owe to each other past , responsibilities we owe to each other past, present and future . other past, present and future. my dad was a toolmaker. he worked in a factory . my mum was worked in a factory. my mum was a nurse and we didn't have a lot when we were growing up. and like millions of working class

children now , i grew up in children now, i grew up in a cost of living crisis . i know cost of living crisis. i know what it feels like to be embarrassed to bring your mates home because the carpet is threadbare and the windows cracked . i was actually cracked. i was actually responsible for that because i did put the football through it . did put the football through it. but we didn't have the money to fix it. or to be honest, the time and the energy economic insecurity drains you of that as well . but look what always well. but look what always comforted my parents was the idea that in the end, britain would give their children a fair chance. the old saying the story we still tell our children work hard and you can achieve anything that meant something. my parents believed in that. but the question now, after 14 years

is do we do kids like those in summerstown? a very poor part of my constituency, one of the poorest parts of europe? do they look out of their window to the glittering success of london? 300 yards and another world away , and believe that success could belong to them ? do parents here belong to them? do parents here in manchester or in glasgow, cardiff, plymouth, sunderland, sussex ? stoke on trent? do they sussex? stoke on trent? do they believe with the certainty that they deserve that the future will be better for their children ? because in the britain children? because in the britain i want to leave to my children , i want to leave to my children, they do and we can build it. i want to leave to my children, they do and we can build it . we they do and we can build it. we can restore the dream of home ownership to 1.5 million families. we can create 3000 new nurseries to give them the best start in life. we can roll out a new generation of technical

excellence. colleges world class vocational education respected by all, grounding young aspiration in the soil of their community. we can guarantee for every young person a job placement or apprenticeship when they're out of work . we can they're out of work. we can invest in their mental health, their physical health, their dental health. we can reform the curriculum to prepare them for their world. we can create new youth hubs to give them something to do in their community, raise their wages if they're at work, give them the power of the vote, tackle injustice with a new race equality act and with our mission on clean power, we can lead the way on climate . finally lead the way on climate. finally show our responsibility to their future a fairer, healthier and more secure britain at the service of working people with growth from every community. a britain ready to restore that

promise, the bond that reaches through the generations and says this country will be better for your children and that is the change on offer. on july the 4th. thatis 4th. that is our plan and i invite you all to join our mission to stop the chaos , turn the page stop the chaos, turn the page and start to rebuild our country .thank and start to rebuild our country . thank you so much . thank you. . thank you so much. thank you. thank you . thank you. >> thank you. helen thank you.

>> thank you. helen thank you. >> thank you very much . >> thank you very much. thank you . you. thank you all very much. thank you. i'm now going to take a number of questions from the media, and i'm starting with chris from the bbc. chris i can't. there you are. sorry, chris i've got you chris. >> thank you. chris mason, bbc news keir starmer talked to the voter right now. who fears that you might only really say what you're going to do after any victory rather than before ? we victory rather than before? we live in an era, don't we, of a scepticism, a cynicism about politics, perhaps an anti—politics mood address those

voters, and you know that there are those who will fear that . are those who will fear that. >> thank you. let me address them directly , because this them directly, because this manifesto is a manifesto for change, a total rejection. chris of the cynicism of the idea that we can't do any better, that we can only hope to flatline and that we cannot rebuild our country. it is a total rejection of that idea based on four years of that idea based on four years of hard work , hundreds of of hard work, hundreds of engagements with those that will deliver for us so we can build a future which genuinely will be better for our children. i understand the cynicism . i understand the cynicism. i understand the cynicism. i understand that after 14 years of this, for many people the hope has been beaten out of them. but this is a manifesto for hope. it is a plan for growth, a plan for change, a plan for wealth creation. i will never accept the defeatism that says we can't do better than this . we can, we will. and with this. we can, we will. and with a labour government, we'll get the opportunity to rebuild our

country . thank you chris beth, country. thank you chris beth, thank you beth rigby, sky news, keir starmer this is a 132 page document . document. >> on the cover. it says change, but there's not a single new policy in it. you haven't already announced. there's no new retail offer for voters. rishi sunak threw the kitchen sink at his manifesto. you won't even take the safety catch off yours. is this a captain caution manifesto designed to protect your poll lead? thank you. >> no . it is a serious plan for >> no. it is a serious plan for the future of our country and every single policy in this document. policy after policy after policy , has been carefully after policy, has been carefully thought through and tested to ensure that we can deliver it. i

am not going to do what rishi sunak did, which is to offer things that he can't deliver because they're unfunded. people have had too much of that. they're fed up with that. this is a serious plan, carefully thought through. it's not about rabbits out of the hat. it's not about pantomime. we've had that . about pantomime. we've had that. i'm running as a prime minister candidate to run the circus. thank you very much . thank you very much. robert itv. >> robert. sir keir starmer, you say you want people to trust you. >> you want to restore stability to the uk, but it is surely the opposite of that to make the bogus claim that you can get growth up sufficiently by now, next year to prevent significant cuts to public services.

>> how are you going to avoid a return to austerity? we are not going to return to austerity. >> i ran a public service for five years, the crown prosecution service. i lived through austerity. i'm never going to allow a labour government to do that to our pubuc government to do that to our public services. never. we have an immediate injection into our pubuc an immediate injection into our public services. the 40,000 appointments each and every week in our nhs to get our waiting list down. the teachers that we will put into our secondary schools, 6500. but robert, we have here a plan for growth , a have here a plan for growth, a plan for wealth creation and steps. we can take a plan to deal with the planning regulations that hasn't been done. it can be done. it can be done. it can be done. it can be done at speed. they're tough decisions. we'll do it. we've got a national wealth fund to invest in the future of our country. gb energy, an energy company to keep our bills down, an industrial strategy, a

training programme for the skills we need of the future. all of these things haven't been donein all of these things haven't been done in the last 14 years. i do understand why people think they can't be done because of the damage that's been done over the last 14 years. they can and they will. we will turn around growth in this country and create the wealth we need for our country and our public services. thank you, robert, very much . chris you, robert, very much. chris gb news, chris gb news. >> keir starmer. news, chris gb news. >> keir starmer . you're so far >> keir starmer. you're so far aheadin >> keir starmer. you're so far ahead in the polls, should we prepare for a one party socialist state as the tories say? and is that a is that a good thing? and also, just quickly, you want to reduce net migration? what on earth does that mean? is that below 100,000 a year, look , chris, let's a year, look, chris, let's reject the cynicism of the tory campaign . all they want to do in campaign. all they want to do in a general election is to suppress the vote. i know that not a single vote has been cast in this election. polls don't

predict the future, and every single vote has to be earned, and we will earn it with our plan for growth, our our plan for creation of wealth in the future. so that is our plan. and yes, i do want a mandate to be able to put this plan into action. i do want people to vote labour to give us the mandate that we need. i want people to vote for a labour candidate in their constituency so that labour mp can sit on the government benches, delivering this manifesto for them and their constituents . yes, i want their constituents. yes, i want that mandate . changes what we that mandate. changes what we need. but if you want change, you have to vote for change. and that means voting labour. thank you very much, chris. natasha, lbc . oh, chris, i didn't do your

lbc. oh, chris, i didn't do your second half of the question. i'll come back to it. and i've dean i'll come back to it. and i've dealt with natasha. >> hi. natasha clark from lbc. it's three weeks today until polling day. the tories are warning of a labour supermajority. how confident are you feeling right now? are you feeling like the campaign's going well? and are you worried that maybe a labour win for you might just be off the back of people voting for you because they hate the tories so much? >> thank you. no, we've had plenty of examples when people don't like the tories and they're a real mess. but labour hasn't been a position to win. that's why we changed the labour party precisely because we know that the tories will mess it up. but we have to be in a position to win. we only win if we change the labour party. when people look away from the government and look at the alternative, they have to see a positive alternative and that's what they see in the labour party. i don't , you know, take anything for granted as we go to the final three weeks of this campaign. yes, we are enjoying the campaign. i won't deny that. we've waited four and a half years and we've worked for four and a half years to get to this point, an election year, the

chance to do what we came into politics to do, which is to change the lives of millions of people for the better with a labour government. we'll do that with our sleeves rolled up, a serious plan for the future, and take our argument to every single doorstep across the country , and ask people to back country, and ask people to back the case for change. ask people to give us a mandate to change this country for them , their this country for them, their family, their community, and our country. thank you very much, chris. you did do a double question , but nonetheless, on question, but nonetheless, on immigration, we do need to have lower immigration. as you know, immigration is at the pretty much the highest on record by the numberjust a few months the number just a few months ago. so this government has lost control of immigration. it's important to look at the reasons for that. and the main driving reason is because they haven't got any skills strategy. we haven't got the skills that we needin haven't got the skills that we need in this country. and that's why not only is our plan here a plan for growth, it will also deal with immigration because this government has gone to immigration as their growth

lever. i