uk to unveil their contract with the people . let's have a look at the people. let's have a look at it. also, do you reckon the labour party are telling the truth when it comes to what taxes they are going to raise? and speaking of the labour party, this great british energy plan , is it actually going to plan, is it actually going to make our bills cheaper or not? and last week was the turn of dawn butler. this week suella braverman what's going on with these tiktok dance rap videos ? these tiktok dance rap videos? is it a cringe fest these tiktok dance rap videos? is it a cringe test or a special weapon to win votes ? you tell me weapon to win votes? you tell me . lots to get stuck into

tonight. but before we start, let's crack over to polly middlehurst for tonight's 6:00 news. >> well, the top story from the gb newsroom tonight. reform uk has launched its election contract in south wales today. described as a serious plan to reshape the way britain is run, the reform leader , nigel farage, the reform leader, nigel farage, said he wouldn't call it a manifesto because too many voters have lost confidence in the term . mr farage outlined the term. mr farage outlined plans to freeze all non—essential immigration and take britain out of the european convention on human rights reform. uk would also introduce a new tax for employers, which choose to hire workers from overseas, and earnings under £20,000 a year, they say, would be tax free, with extra funds made available by abolishing the government's net zero targets. mr farage says he wants to restore trust in british politics. >> the great british public who

wants some hope, he wants some aspiration. those at the lower end of the income scale who can't make ends meet, those who are trapped on benefits and i mean trapped. they can't get off because you work for more than 16 hours a week. they take your benefits away. and we're aiming at those people. we're aiming at people who would like well—paid jobs in the manufacturing sector. >> 41% ahead of the tories on 21. while reform uk trails on 15. prime minister rishi sunak says he'll fight on and he intends to win . intends to win. >> there's still two and a half weeks to go in this election. i'm fighting hard for every vote because i believe we can win and there's a very clear choice at this election. it's having your taxes cut by the conservatives or facing significant tax rises with the labour party. now, we know now the manifestos are all out. everyone's cards are on the table with the conservatives we will cut your taxes at every

stage of your life. and in contrast with labour, the tax burden is going up to the highest. we've seen in our country's history. >> rishi sunak. now, country's history. >> rishi sunak . now, the rac country's history. >> rishi sunak. now, the rac has accused fuel retailers of exploiting the focus on the general election to keep their price margins persistently high. the motoring group says wholesale costs have fallen in recent months and there's no reason for retailers to maintain their current pricing . it comes their current pricing. it comes as the liberal democrats call for a fuel duty relief scheme to be expanded to improve affordability in rural areas. sir keir starmer is promising an end to what he's called chopping and changing in government, which he says discourages investment in britain. he's also vowed to drive down what he's describing as child poverty after the institute for fiscal studies warned the number of children affected by the two children affected by the two child benefit cap will rise by a third over the next five years. but sir keir says the cap will

remain for the time being. >> look, it's a tough choice, i'll be clear about that. but one of the things that we are not going to do as we go into this election is to make announcements about changes that we can't afford, because a lot of damage has been done to the economy. so i'm taking the tough choice to say to people before they vote, these are some of the things we won't be able to do because of the state of the economy. what i don't want to do is do what the tories are doing, which is sort of promise the earth without the funding. and, you know, guess what? after the event , as we've seen in the last event, as we've seen in the last 14 years, nothing gets delivered i >> -- >> sir keir starmer, now the lib dems say fuel duty relief should be expanded to 20 new areas to support motorists in rural communities , as sir ed davey communities, as sir ed davey backed up claims by the rac that fuel retailers are continuing to charge persistently high prices despite falling wholesale costs, the party's leader says rural motorists have been particularly clobbered by the cost of living and is calling for the current

scheme to be expanded, which sees retailers compensated for passing on lower prices to drivers. set ed davey, saying it will be funded by tackling tax avoidance , cost £7 million and avoidance, cost £7 million and in our costings we published when we launched our manifesto, we had many ways we were raising the money. >> one of the big ways is through tackling tax avoidance. we're going to invest £1 billion a year in the tax authorities, so they can raise 7 billion. they reckon they can raise more than that. but that's what we've put in. and this would come out of that money. >> so ed davey now his majesty the king and queen camilla led the king and queen camilla led the monarchy in celebrating the ancient order of the garter. today, as the royal family's summer season begins , the royal summer season begins, the royal couple followed tradition, keeping to the back of the procession, dressed in white plumed hat and dark blue velvet robes. other members of the order, including the prince of wales, princess royal and duke of edinburgh, were also there. the duke of york, who's also a

member of the order, didn't join the service . that's the news. the service. that's the news. for the latest stories, do sign up to gb news alerts, scan the qr code on your screen or go to smash alerts . smash alerts. >> thank you very much for that, polly. my name's michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company until 7:00 tonight alongside me, my panel. i've got the former environment secretary, george eustice, and a new face to the show, former shadow minister for veterans steve mccabe. good evening to you. and welcome to dewbs& co. also welcome to each and every one of you at home. you know, the drill is very much about you guys as well. what's on your mind tonight? you can get in touch all the usual ways. you can email me gb views @gbnews. com you can go on twitter. x whatever you want to call it these days @gbnews there. or of course you can go online to our website gb news. komurspor, brenda has done exactly that and said, hello michelle, please, please do not talk about the calf. well, i'm not going to

talk about the calf, but i know what you're talking about. and it really has got a lot of people hot under the collar. awful situation. i don't know what that police officer was thinking, but no, i shall not be going into it in any more detail then that, look, it's 17 days to go until the general election. i can cross live to katherine forster to bring us up to speed with the goings on on the campaign trail today. good evening to you. what have we missed? >> yes. good evening michelle. well rishi sunak has been back on the campaign trail, having had a brief break at the g7 and trooping of the colour at the weekend. he's been on a gas rig and he is saying that he says i believe we've we can win now. he's in a pretty small minority, ihave he's in a pretty small minority, i have to say, because, most conservative mps, in fact, i think i can't remember the last time i spoke to somebody in the conservative party who actually did believe that they could win. they see most of them focused

on, desperately trying to keep their seats. i think that's why we haven't seen, most of the cabinet out on the campaign trail much. and some are urging rishi sunak to sort of go for the jugular on labour, be a little bit less nice and point out that sir keir starmer supported jeremy corbyn, that he fought for a second brexit referendum , etc, the lib dems referendum, etc, the lib dems have been out , near the water as have been out, near the water as they seem to always be. they have been talking about, rural motorists and how they feel they get a rough deal and they want to help them. labour have been talking about jobs , 650,000 jobs talking about jobs, 650,000 jobs that they believe they can bring through their £73 billion national wealth fund. this is all about green technology. they see the race to net zero as an opportunity to bring jobs and

prosperity. though the conservatives have got lots of questions for them about potential job losses as a result of labour saying they're not going to be granting new oil and gas licences in the north sea. and then, of course, we had the big reveal today reform there not a manifesto because they say that word is associated with lies, their contract promising things that will be very appealing to a lot of people saying they're going to raise the personal threshold at which you start paying tax from 12.5 to 20,000, saying they're going to 20,000, saying they're going to raise, the amount that you can have from inheritance before you can have from inheritance before you pay can have from inheritance before you pay tax to 2 million saying they would pull out of the european convention of human rights. but massive, massive spending commitments totalling some £141 billion a year that

is, makes liz truss look like a model of financial restraint. >> yeah. let me ask you this briefly before you go. the ifs they've been responding to some of these manifestos . just of these manifestos. just summarise how they have responded to these pledges . responded to these pledges. >> yes they have. they have said the sums in this manifesto do not add up , i the sums in this manifesto do not add up, i can't read my own writing. spending reductions would be significantly less than stated. and the tax cuts would cost more than stated by a margin of tens of billions of pounds a year. so they are having none of it but huge, huge spending commitments, something very different will be appealing to a lot of people. but of course they can make these safe in the knowledge that they're not going to form the next government. nigel farage has freely admitted you know, they'll be lucky to get a handful of seats, but what

they're hoping is to get a foothold in parliament and potentially build their presence. looking ahead to an election in 2029. >> interesting stuff, catherine, thank you very much for that, so, you know, rishi sunak very confident that the tories can win the election. do you share that optimism? >> well, look, nothing's inevitable in any election, but i mean, the truth is, we are the underdog in this election. have been since the start. there's no getting away from the fact that we're trailing labour, you know, by a long way in the polls. so, yeah, we've got an uphill struggle, but there isn't anything inevitable. and i think there's a real problem in this election that the labour party and keir starmer appear to be taking people for granted. they think they've got it in the bag, they think people are going to vote for them anyway and they're doing everything they can to avoid saying what they would do on big issues like tax and spend. >> well, we're going to come on to some of the labour ideas, but do you think they are taking their voters or the win? should i say for granted? steve. >> absolutely no. i think that's the furthest thing from their mind. i mean, labour are

following a very well prepared election plan that they've been working on for some time, but i mean, the manifesto was the culmination of lots of announcement that people have really heard before . so i think really heard before. so i think people know what they're going to get if they get a labour government , you know, and i government, you know, and i wonder, we're going to be looking, by the way, as some of the labour promises, because i want to ask as well, do you think that they're being honest and straight when it comes to the tax situation or not? >> and i want to look at this gb energy, as well. but before i do that, how does it make you feel. because 2019, it was you know the tories were on a high winds like you'd never seen in places that you wouldn't have imagined. when you fast forward now to be in this position, does it hurt ? in this position, does it hurt? >> well, look, i thought a lot of elections for the conservative party, including 2005, which we lost. so i fought elections that we've lost and elections that we've lost and elections that we've won. >> but the position that you used to be in. >> yeah. and the 2019 election was a very special case for a number of reasons. but most

importantly, it was the get brexit done election, people saw that there was a real question about whether parliament itself would function, whether parliament itself would respect the democratic will of the people . and they knew that people. and they knew that whatever the rights and wrongs of brexit and whatever they thought about that you needed to get this done in order to respect that democratic decision. and that is why people right across the country, including in areas that had traditionally been considered safe labour areas , voted safe labour areas, voted conservative in a really big way, and they did so to get brexit done. >> yeah. what do you think? >> yeah. what do you think? >> because i know that many of you did vote conservative in the last election. some of you, by the way, for the first time you lent them your vote. how do you feel like it's turning out? because often people will get in touch and say , michelle, why is touch and say, michelle, why is everyone always bashing the conservatives and i got to say, that's absolutely not intentionally done. i'm, you know, really keen always to find people that want to big up, each of their parties. so if you know of their parties. so if you know of anyone that i'm missing talking to, get in touch and let me know, do you share the optimism of rishi sunak? but of

course, one man that was stealing a lot of the thunder today. of course, was nigel farage. he was speaking. he was in wales actually, he was speaking not about his manifesto but about his contract with the people. listen, hephaestos one after another can keep making, keep making the same promises and no one believes. >> now, frankly, a word that they say. which is why today specific is not a manifesto launch. specific is not a manifesto launch . because if i say to you, launch. because if i say to you, manifesto , your immediate word manifesto, your immediate word association is lie. and that is, i think, wholly unsurprising thing. we're about trying to restore some trust in politics. you might dislike what we say. you might dislike what we say. you might dislike what we say. you might not want to vote for what we say, but at least we do say what we mean . say what we mean. >> i mean, it's quite remarkable. of course, you'll be familiar with the yougov poll that came out a few days ago

that came out a few days ago that actually placed nigel farage's party above the tories. do you see them as a threat reform? oh, obviously. >> yeah. they're undermining the conservative vote in many key marginal seats. and you know, the thing about nigel farage, do you know how egotistical that sounds when you say, like they're undermining the tory vote? >> it's almost like you feel somehow that that vote is either labour's or the tories. so who are these kind of i wouldn't say that at all, michel, because i stood for ukip in 1999. >> i've stood for minority parties and actually i've got huge respect for them. but under a first past the post system, which is what we have now, and i know people like nigel farage would like to change that. but the parties themselves, the conservative party, the labour party are coalitions . the party are coalitions. the conservative party is a coalition of different strands of conservative thought, including some people who might be tempted to vote nigel farage this time , but others besides this time, but others besides that. the same is true in the labour party. you've got the corbynites, you've got the moderates, the blairites, you've got a whole range of people. co—operative party, the political parties, the main parties are coalitions and in any election they have to try to

keep that coalition together. and that is why the conservative party in this election does need to try to appeal to those reform voters to say if you vote for reform, you're just going to get more labour voters. >> but do you actually think you can appeal to them? well, you can appeal to them? well, you can appeal to them, but do you think the appeal will be successful? >> well, i think the challenge that the conservatives in my party have this time is because there's so much coverage of the headune there's so much coverage of the headline polls, and we're seen to be so far behind a lot of people might think, well, there's probably going to be a labour government anyway. so i'm just going to vote for reform. and i think that's quite dangerous because it does mean there's a difference between, you know, opposition, but in a strong opposition where you can challenge the government and a labour government that might have a majority north of 100, in which case labour mps themselves become disempowered and the regime and the advisers around keir starmer can pretty much do what they like. and there's a there's a risk to that. parliament has that accountability role. but if a leader of one party and one political party has too big a majority , it can get away with

majority, it can get away with what it wants. >> and so do you see reform uk as essentially giving you what some people have been calling a supermajority ? vie are you supermajority? vie are you rubbing your hands with glee , rubbing your hands with glee, i'm a bit sceptical that there's going to be any supermajority . going to be any supermajority. i'm dubious about that. i think it is absolutely true that nigel farage, he's a brilliant showman . i mean, you got to give him credit, but he has set out to totally, smash the conservative party. i don't think there's any argument that that's his objective . and it is conceivable objective. and it is conceivable that he will create the same kind of conditions that the sdp did way back in the early 80s, and you'll create a mood in the country where there will be a penod country where there will be a period of labour dominance that is perfectly possible. i wouldn't rule out . but he wouldn't rule out. but he himself, you know, he's a showman. whatever he did , if he showman. whatever he did, if he sold washing powder, he would still be a star. the guy is not really a politician. he's someone who enjoys flirting with politics at the expense of

others. >> do you think that really, because you know he is, he's regarded by many as one of the most effective? whether you like him or not, you know that. but many people would say he's probably one of the most effective politicians of this lifetime. >> no, i think he's a very effective performer and i'm acknowledging that it's a brilliant act , acknowledging that it's a brilliant act, and i totally accept that. but, you know, i mean, look at that mismatch we had today. every sort of disgruntled sense of disgruntlement or dissatisfaction when it's packed together. oh, we're not expecting to win. we're just wanting to be the opposition. but in 100 days, we'll take you out of the, european court of human rights. the mine will say anything that he knows will press a button. he does it brilliantly. and i credit him for it. but, you know, this is the guy who was promising his a brave new world after brexit. and look what we've ended up with. >> yeah, but then. but then. sorry >> well i don't i don't agree with that. i've known, nigel farage in various ways for about

25 years, and i don't dislike him, but my frustration with nigel farage, well, my frustration with nigel farage throughout has been in all the time. i've known him. he's had a terrible tendency to allow his vanhy terrible tendency to allow his vanity and his self—indulgence to undermine the very causes he believes in. so you can go back 25 years when some of us were campaigning to keep the country out of the euro, to keep the pound. tony blair desperately wanted to get us in there. nigel farage was a liability in that because he kept mixing it up and muddling the issue with the wider eu issue. you can go to 2016 when we had the referendum campaign, rather than recognise that you needed a cross party campaign, vote leave to lead it and crucially, you needed strong labour voices in it. nigel farage set out to try to become the designated campaign built around his own personality , and around his own personality, and dominic cummings spent a lot of time trying to contain and manage the ego of nigel farage so that we could win that referendum and then on the night of the referendum, i remember him coming out conceding defeat, you know, even though we didn't have the results. and then

changing his mind to two hours later when it was obvious we'd won. so he has a tendency to undermine the very things that he believes in. and he's doing it now because as the only impact of his involvement in this election is to mean fewer conservative mps are weaker opposition, a stronger labour government? >> well, he would argue that actually the conservative party have failed in their mission, have failed in their mission, have failed in their mission, have failed in their objectives . have failed in their objectives. they definitely everything that they're not supposed to be, he would argue that they're higher taxes, immigration has got out of control despite the ridiculous promises over and over again about reducing it's tens of thousands and so on and so forth. so he would argue if he was here, i'm sure he would say that actually he's more connected and in tune with the people of britain , or certainly people of britain, or certainly a chunk of them. and therefore he feels that no one is delivering, and representing those people. >> and that's why that is part of his argument. but also he says that he wants proportional representation. but if we had proportional representation in this country, yes, you wouldn't have coalitions within parties. the conservative party and labour would break up into 2 or 3 factions, and you would then

have coalitions between parties . have coalitions between parties. and so even if nigel farage, in a future world where there was pr, had a chunk of mps, he would have to make massive numbers of compromises to enter government. and that would mean in jettisoning the very things that he said he would do today, what do you make to it, i know that many of you will have been following that contract. what did you think to it? chris says finally, some common sense stuff. not sure how achievable it is, he says, but at least somebody out there has recognised the problems that we face and is bold enough to even want to suggest tackling them. your thoughts on all of that? i want to look at the labour side of the fence as well, because do you trust their position when it comes to the tax situation in their manifesto or not? let's carry on the conversation in two.

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight.

alongside me. my panel remain. look, lots of you getting in touch about nigel farage. you're saying, what is this? and nigel farage bashing, competition. can you see? and this is the interesting thing, because many people now on both sides of the fence, are trying to, i would say, almost undermine, nigel because of course, it's in their interest to try and stop people voting for them. but that, again, is split because many people are saying, actually, you're getting in touch with me. some of you saying it's a fast track for labour, other people saying that the tories absolutely deserve it. margaret says without boris, nigel is the best that we have . we had a big best that we have. we had a big conversation about that on thursday, about whether or not actually the tories had completely caused themselves problems by ousting boris in the way that they did. i know that many of you think that that was absolutely the case, claire says . all the other parties are essentially running scared of farage, andrew says, can we just say , look at what the tories say, look at what the tories have done to this country, he says they don't deserve to

survive as a major political party. does that bother you? those kind of views? have you heard that before ? yeah. heard that before? yeah. >> now, of course it does. and look, as i said, we go into this in a very difficult set of circumstances, you've had the covid pandemic in particular, where countries around the world had to borrow huge amounts of money to get through that. and we're seeing some of the consequences of that. and around the world, it doesn't matter whether these are parties or governments or the left or the right, you know, a lot of them have taken a big hit for those decisions that had to be taken dunng decisions that had to be taken during covid, well, i mean, don't even get me started on this because as my regular viewers will know, i have very strong opinions about whether or not we should have followed that , that path. but anyway, ian says michelle, can you tell everybody, that they are that they are basically trying to portray that you either go tory or you go labour. otherwise your vote is futile. he says this is essentially team uni party. please can you remind your panellist that we're not stupid? please? there you go, ian. consider your message. pass on, right. let's talk then, shall we? about the labour party,

because there's been a lot of kind of toing and froing about whether or not the sum total, of their spending plans and taxation plans is actually in that manifesto. wes streeting . that manifesto. wes streeting. he has been speaking out about this. listen only our manifesto is fully costed, fully funded, with promises we can keep and the country can afford. >> secondly, where i disagree with the nuffield, but where i disagree with the nuffield trust and is the assumption they're making that this manifesto is the grand sum total of any future budgets and any future spending reviews. that's just wrong. that's not the way election campaigns work , steve. election campaigns work, steve. >> what do you think? so the criticism here will be actually, they're not telling the truth. they're hiding, tax increases. they're hiding, tax increases. they're probably going to create this emergency budget in the autumn time where they say, look, the picture is not what we thought it was, and now we're going to have to do all of these things and bang, there goes your tax rises. what do you think to that? >> well, i think that's the scare i would expect. it's the

scare i would expect. it's the scare that's levelled against labour at every general election i can think of. so it's no great surprise. and if you're in the desperate state of the georgia squad around, it's obvious that that's what you're trying to do. i think labour have been pretty clear in what they've ruled out. they've tried very hard to explain how they're going to fund what they're going to do. it's a modest programme. they've admitted that and i think just yesterday wasn't, after all, the latest fuss. they've tried about council tax. jonathan ashworth , council tax. jonathan ashworth, ruled that out. so i mean, you know, like from a party that's given us the highest tax rate since the second world war that's used council taxes, a way to disguise its own revenue . to disguise its own revenue. reason i think it's a cheap shot. and i don't think people buy it. and i think the truth is, people know they're going to get a modest programme under a labour government because the other lot have wrecked the country's finances , and it's country's finances, and it's going to take a while to put things right.

>> but i thought even the ifs was saying that your sums didn't add up. the labour party somse didn't add up. >> well, i haven't seen that. i'll take your word for it. >> yeah, i thought that they were coming out and saying stuff like that. what do you make to it, george? >> well, i my view on the labour side is they've, they've kind of brought this on themselves because they've been describing their plans as fully costed and this is a fully costed plan. and what we've seen wes streeting concede is that actually it's not what they've actually said is there are certain big tax rates that they don't intend to move, but on all the other types of tax rates, and they will have all sorts of creative wealth taxes and so on, they're keeping the door open to be able to make those tax. >> jeremy hunt admit yesterday he'd already spent the 70 billion that you've put aside for tax cuts. well we've set out our own plans. >> yeah, i know, i think the truth is both parties, you know, on a on a budget, they will need the opportunity to be able to do an autumn statement or an emergency budget to set out exactly what they're doing in our case. so we have set out how we will fund those plans in the in the years ahead, labour,

they've set out how they will fund what's in the manifesto, but there's huge ambiguity and vagueness in the manifesto about what they would do. >> so then, if you're just a member of public at home and both sides are saying that essentially they're the ones not telling the truth, i mean , where telling the truth, i mean, where does a normal, average person go from there? >> well, i think it is really difficult. i mean, we are in a situation at the moment where it is very hard for people to believe anyone. you know, we had the stuff about nigel a bit earlier. he had his people saying that the obr had financed, checked his proposals this morning. that's rubbish. that's just another lie. it's very difficult. we are living in an age where people can't trust politicians and they can't believe them. and that, i think, is extremely damaging for democracy. it would be in everyone's interest to pull back from these spurious stories about tax, which are just damaging everyone. >> so where do you think this lack of trust has come from then

? >> well, 7- >> well, i ? >> well, i think it's 7 >> well, i think it's a mixture of the behaviour of political parties over a period of time , parties over a period of time, andifs parties over a period of time, and it's also a feature of social media, where anything can be said and is given the same equivalence as already checked facts. >> i mean , so i'm just sitting >> i mean, so i'm just sitting there and i know my audience will be sitting there because many of them won't know how to vote, or if even actually to vote, or if even actually to vote at all. there'll be many people saying, actually, do you know what? i'm just not going to bother you. perhaps be saying it in colourful language, a little bit more spicy than i've just said. where do they go? >> well, i personally don't think this is a new challenge. you could look at any election in the last 40 or 50 years, and you'd see people saying the same. you can go to the 1997 election. people said similar things. i think the real problem we have in modern politics and by modern i mean the last half century or so is the manifestos are actually quite vague and they are necessarily vague because we actually ask way too much of political parties to be able to put together a fully fledged and fully costed

programme, when really they're voluntary organisations . lie—ins voluntary organisations. lie—ins run by a handful of 20 something researchers who have to put these manifestos together. well, these manifestos together. well, the machinery of government, with tens of thousands of policy experts sit on their hands waiting for the manifestos to be published so they can put it in little neat, you know, red lever arch files for new ministers to say , how are you going to do say, how are you going to do your manifesto? we've got to somehow, at some point, get better at an enabling manifestos to be more detailed and more candid. that set out a programme for government, and then voters will be able to look at a manifesto and decide. but at the moment, what they see is arguments and people trading insults on debate programmes. american style debate programmes, which really, i think have undermined political discourse in this country. do you? yeah, i think there are a retrograde step, but this started long before the manifestos. >> i mean, the minute the government started using civil servants to try and pick holes in their opponents programmes , in their opponents programmes, you know, that started then and

you've got to take some of the blame for that, i'm afraid. >> what do you say back to that? well i think we have the same with with tony blair. >> i was in opposition and we you had armies of civil servants when we were fighting, joining the euro. we worked out at one point there were about 4000 civil servants employed void to basically campaign for the euro in directly. >> the difference was that was an argument about the existing government's policy. i'm talking about what should be a free and fair election, where one side is actually making sure it isn't free, and fair by misusing government money and government authorities. >> well, i don't think there's anything different, what they've done, you know, in terms of costing certain proposals, you know, the party themselves run these sort of costings. everything gets criticised anyway in terms of an election. but there's nothing that i mean, apart from anything else. the civil service studiously avoid getting involved in elections.

>> well, that's not what rishi said in the tv debate the other night. he said labour are gonna cost you £2,000. i've had it checked by my civil servants . checked by my civil servants. >> yeah, but if that wasn't true because i was watching that tv debate and i'm sure many of you were at home as well. rishi sunak kept coming out about this £2,000 smacking and smacking keir starmer. if it wasn't true, surely keir starmer straight straight away , straight off the straight away, straight off the bat, as soon as rishi said you know you're going to be, you know, costing the family £2,000 a year. why didn't starmer say that's not true straight from the back? >> i think his problem was he couldn't get a word in edgeways. if you want to be. i've never seen anything so public school bullying in my life. >> you think what was bullying? >> you think what was bullying? >> i thought soon i went onto that debate to say one thing. he was going to talk over everybody . he was going to repeat it oven he . he was going to repeat it over. he clearly been skilled to do that. that's why it was such a lousy debate. >> come off it. you're telling me because i watch this and i know that many people at home did, most people said it was lousy, but he went over and over

and over saying about this £2,000. >> keir starmer had multiple opportunities , multiple opportunities, multiple opportunities, multiple opportunities to say that's not true . he didn't. it was only true. he didn't. it was only like, i think it was a break or something. and then he came back on with a completely different perspective. it was almost like someone had got hold of him in the back room or whatever it is that they do, and given him a shake. and then he came out and started pushing back against the two grand. so everyone at home is sitting there going, if it's not true, why didn't you say it wasn't? and you're saying it's because he was bullied? i mean, come on. well, i was seeing that i did actually witness on the programme he attempted to actually respond and he was cut off. >> i by the moderator who said, oh, we're coming to that later. so i did see that part of it. you know, i can't, i can't speculate on what that's all got to do with it, because you said it was because i thought it was the arrogance of public school bullying sooner. i thought he had a right to command the programme and to talk over everybody. and that's what he demonstrated exactly the same as

when he was in the debates with liz truss. he treated her as if she didn't have the same rights because she was a woman. >> really? well, that's what i 56w. >> saw. >> you're asking, is that fair? >> you're asking, is that fair? >> no, i don't think that's fair at all. but it comes to my point about these tv debates. there are sort of american thing. i just don't think they really work in our in our system. i remember having to prepare david cameron , you know, to go into a cameron, you know, to go into a leadership one against david davis and others . and, you know, davis and others. and, you know, it's really less about your program and what you plan to do. it ends up being how does it look? and, you know, we all remember, you know, nick clegg got a huge bounce in the polls because he looked cool at the podium and had his hand in his pocket. and this was seen to be a fresh new thing. and it it was nothing of the sort. but for a brief while, the lib dems enjoyed their time in the sun, courtesy of really just the way things looked in a temporary way on telly. >> what do you guys at home think to these debates? do you think to these debates? do you think that they are essentially a value add a step forward in

the election campaigns or a step backwards? do they change your opinions in any way, shape or form? and as for politicians looking cool, i can tell you you don't look cool. towards the end of the programme, i'll be showing you some of the latest clips from some aspiring mps. again, they're absolutely absurd , but i'm sure you might have a different opinion after the break. i want to talk to you about this gb, energy green energy plan from labour. is it going to our bills cheaper not? see you in

hi there. this is dewbs& co with me. michelle dewberry till 7:00 tonight. george eustice and steve mccabe keep me company. we've just been asking you about those tv , tv debates and whether those tv, tv debates and whether or not it's your kind of thing, whether or not there have been a step forward or not. sue says, all of these debates seems to be all of these debates seems to be a massive bore. she says she can't listen to any of them, and they would never influence her voting decision . well, never say voting decision. well, never say neven voting decision. well, never say never, you know, because, i

don't know. there's always an opportunity that someone puts their foot in it and perhaps wishes that they did not keep your thoughts coming in. but of course, labour has vowed to create 650,000 new jobs and to help make britain better off. let's listen to keir starmer explain . explain. >> a great british energy is going to be an energy company that will drive our work on renewables, so whether that's floating offshore wind, wind turbines , nuclear, hydrogen, turbines, nuclear, hydrogen, there's a race now for pretty well every green job, that's going and we would be good at that. we've got the skills for that, we've got the sort of workforce who would be good at it, but we just need to drive it through now, at pace to get the change that i think will bring lower bills , that will bring lower bills, that will bring energy security, but also the next generation of jobs for the future. >> and i'm supposed to be listening intently to what keir starmer says. but whenever i see these kind of announcements , these kind of announcements, when you've got this gathered workforce in a semi—circle behind them with a high viz's

on, i prefer looking at their faces. i wonder what goes through their mind when their boss goes right, you politician in and you're standing behind them anyway. look, i'm sorry rishi sunak , he's been rishi sunak, he's been responding to some of that. >> listen was out with our fantastic secretary of state, clare, today at a gas rig in the nonh clare, today at a gas rig in the north sea, seeing the importance of the north sea to our energy security, to cutting people's bills again , what would labour bills again, what would labour do? they would ban north sea energy , damaging our economy, energy, damaging our economy, damaging our energy security. russia ing to net zero, and a wage that saddles families with thousands of pounds of costs. >> a former environment minister, sir jb energy. does it minister, sirjb energy. does it get a tick in the box from you? will it make will it tick the box? the primary box everyone wants which is cheaper bills? >> no, it won't make any difference. it'll just be another quango. and i think this is one of the worrying things that i see in labour at the moment. i think today there was another one about having a new unit on homelessness. the crucial thing is what policies you put in place. and if you look at energy, yes, we've got the right incentive schemes to

encourage offshore wind and it's been a massive success story over the last decade. we've now , over the last decade. we've now, you know, 40% of our energy now comes from offshore wind . and comes from offshore wind. and there are other projects as well. on geothermal energy. we are putting the right investment there to do it. you don't need a quango to tell you what to do. you've already got armies of officials in whitehall, you know, in the department for energy who are thinking about these things and all really they're going to do in labour is, is take those civil servants, put them in a new office somewhere at great expense, get them some marketing agent and have a new logo done and call it a new quango. and i think it's disappointing because in the first five years of this, this government basically ignored it was, david cameron and george osborne spent a huge amount of time dismantling some of the pointless quangos that tony blair had set up. and here we are again with keir starmer, basically on a on a quango fest is it a quango fest? >> no, i don't think anything could be further from the truth, really. look, i'm genuinely pretty enthusiastic about gb

energy. i think it could be the jewel in labour's crown, and i don't think george has got the right idea here at all. there is a model for this from a previous labour government. when they set up the british national oil corporation, which was designed, not a quango. it was run by people who had expertise in the industry, but it was british owned and it was designed to create jobs and create a sovereign wealth fund. and if mrs. thatcher hadn't privatised it at the very point where it earned 500 million, it would have gone on to lower bills and make us rival norway in terms of a sovereign wealth fund. what we're describing now is something with the same potential. but for green energy, andifs potential. but for green energy, and it's ridiculous that you can have wind turbines and not a single component is built in this country . single component is built in this country. not a single job benefits from it. that's exactly what any government should do. but it's going to take this government to do it. >> so you would, force

manufacturing to be uk based? >> well, i wouldn't force anything, but the aim should be to make damn sure that, the manufacture sharing benefits are accrued in this country. of course , with the associated, course, with the associated, cost hike, because it's much it's much more expensive, isn't it, to create, to save manufactured products in the uk versus, say, i don't know, china 7 versus, say, i don't know, china ? there's a i'm not sure we'd be wanting to buy any, any energy components from china at the moment. they've tried that, that causes a few problems. we're certainly not going to try that. but i don't quite follow that argument because the big problem at the moment is actually sourcing many components from abroad . it actually adds to the abroad. it actually adds to the cost. it doesn't reduce them. >> is that fair? >> is that fair? >> is that fair? >> i think look, i think if you want a manufacturing strategy, well, i'd be in favour of that. i'd be i'd be supportive of saying we should be domestically manufacturing more things , and i manufacturing more things, and i would be much more wary about allowing, you know, foreign capital to buy, you know,

british champion manufacturers. i would support that. but that's not what this is about. this is gb energy. it's all about trying to join things up and it will become another quango that tries to chivvy private enterprise to do what it's already doing. and actually what you really want is the right incentives so that private enterprise will enter into the market and deliver. and it has done that on offshore wind. we need it to do the same on things like geothermal energy. >> two do you think we're consulting people enough as to whether or not they are on board the net zero boss? because it does feel to a lot of people, like it's just kind of forced upon people. do you think there should have been a referendum on this a little while back, before people had all these targets committed to? >> well, i mean, you could have a referendum on anything, but we know what happens when you have referendums and people have a free for all. so i would be a fan of that. what happens when i think actually there is hang on, what do you mean when you said, you know what happens when people have a referendum? >> what do you mean? >> what do you mean? >> i was referring to the brexit referendum and the nonsense that was talked and the results that accrued. >> so. >> so.

>> well that's not. yeah. but people would say, well, hold on a second. they voted the way they voted according to what they voted according to what they were promised. >> it'sjust they were promised. >> it's just that what they were promised didn't turn out to be true. >> well, they voted for sovereignty, didn't they? >> they voted yes. >> they voted yes. >> well, give me an example of the sovereignty we've gained. >> well, it was true because we are now a self—governing, independent country. again. >> we can make our own laws, can't control our own borders. >> well, we can decide the policies to do that. we can decide our own trade policies. i have my own differences with the government sometimes on trade policies, but at least we could decide it. we can decide our own immigration policy. we can decide our own agriculture. >> you know, he's actually doing a very good job of that, george. well, i think we are. >> and it won't be perfect in the first iteration. but the crucial thing is we are a self—governing country again. we weren't well, we were in the eu. we had to implement laws, decided elsewhere. >> actually, what i was going to say was in terms of the net zero thing, i think there is a sense in people's heads that it's far too hair short. it's all about what you've got to give up and i think that is what irritates people about it. well there you

go. >> what do you make to all of that? and are you on board this net zero bus or not? well, carry this conversation after break. but i also want to look

hi there. michelle dewberry with you till 7:00. georgius is. and steve mccabe remain alongside me, let's . last week we spoke me, let's. last week we spoke about dawn butler. do you remember that rap video? this week? it's the turn of suella braverman. look i have a question for everybody who wants to go to the four seasons. >> orlando. >> orlando. >> just awful. i just think that's so embarrassing. it's just. i mean, maybe you're watching that thinking. do you know what? i wasn't going to vote before, but now that i've seen that tiktok video, she is

the one for me. i do have to just say in that constituency where she's standing, which is fareham and waterlooville , fareham and waterlooville, you've got suella braverman, who is the conservative candidate? you've got kevin chippendale, higgin from reform uk, you've got edward dean, rejoin eu, gemma fernvale from labour, bella hewett, the liberal democrats, robert holliday , from democrats, robert holliday, from hampshire independence and bas murray from the green party. do you like these kind of videos? well i can understand that. >> there will be some candidates who feel they need to get a presence on something like tiktok, because why? well, because it's where the younger demographic tends to be. and so these days, facebook tends to be one for, you know, an older demographic. so i understand why they do it, but i don't think they do it, but i don't think they should. and, you know, when i was press secretary to david cameron, i strongly advised him not to go on twitter. in those days. that was an early embryonic one. some choose to go on, some didn't. he didn't go on it for a while, and then he did eventually go on it. and i just think these formats don't really work for politicians. i think on

twitter it's now become a sort of cesspit of hatred and ignorance and, it's just so poisonous. i think it's really. and i know they didn't even call it twitter anymore, but it's just not, not a good a good one. and tiktok, i just think it it doesn't enable you to project a serious image, which is what politicians ultimately need to do. steve. >> well, i think all the other candidates you listed should have to do one as well. and we should get simon cole to adjudicate them. >> would you ever do anything like that? well i unfortunately was persuaded once to take part in a terrible singing competition. >> and have you ever heard me sing? you would realise what a terrible mistake it was. so much as i like to mock this, i have to confess i've fallen foul as well. >> i just think it's so low rent and it makes me feel sorry for us as a country actually, that this is the kind of level that apparently serious politicians and this is nothing against the individuals involved, by the way. but i think when you've got serious politicians and this is the way that they actually think that they can canvass and get support. i just found it quite

sad. indictment on our political system and the people within it, quite frankly, philip says, michelle, i don't think anyone ever went into politics for the good of the public. like, oh, you're a harsh man, ill, says michelle. we've got clowns for politicians now, and it's sherm's britain. goodness me, you're a harsh person. anyone that you like, that's an mp or was an mp or not, alyssa says i'm a young person and i see the vision , but i was not convinced vision, but i was not convinced by those kind of videos. they are cringe , she says, there you are cringe, she says, there you go. look, that's all i've got time for tonight. thank you very much for your company. steve and george don't go anywhere , george don't go anywhere, though, because up next is camilla. but that's all from me tonight. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar , sponsors of weather on . solar, sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> hello. good evening. welcome to your latest gp news weather update from the met office. it will be another bright start to tuesday, however, it's going to

cloud over through the day and there's a risk of some pretty heavy showers once again, low pressure, still quite close to northern areas, so that's bringing that shower risk, particularly across the north and east through today. but that shower risk will move over to the northwest through tomorrow. so a few showers still to come for eastern scotland through tonight as well. it will remain fairly cloudy and drizzly across northern areas of scotland, but elsewhere for the rest of the uk. it will be a clear and dry night, with the risk of some mist and fog developing by tomorrow morning and temperatures around 11 or 12 degrees for most towns and cities. so bright start to the day on tuesday, potentially a bit of mist and fog around, but it's the far north of scotland that's going to see the cloudiest of skies, and with that northerly wind it's going to be feeling not a lot like summer at all. 11 or 12 degrees at best, nine degrees for some of us, and some quite persistent drizzly rain. now temperatures rise as we head further south, with more in the way of sunshine to start the day. as i said, there is a chance of some mist and fog and notice this massive rain over the near continent

that will start to approach from the south and east through tuesday and through tuesday lunchtime. and we could see some heavy rain across parts of kent and sussex and then towards essex, parts of suffolk as well, later on in the day. so here it will turn potentially quite wet. we could also see some very heavy showers across western areas of scotland, as well as northwestern england, but elsewhere a dry and fairly bright day but a little bit cooler than today. tomorrow now another bright start to come on wednesday and wednesday is looking like a much brighter day, but by and large as well. however we do have a weather front approaching from the north and west that will bring thicker cloud to parts of scotland, northern ireland as well. later on in the day. but for most of us it stays dry and bright as we head through wednesday, thursday and likely into friday as well, with temperatures rising towards 24 degrees, looks like things are heating up . are heating up. >> boxt boilers sponsors of weather

gb news. >> good evening, and welcome to vote 2024. the people decide with me. camilla tominey coming up on tonight's show. we will, of course, be discussing reform's manifesto. sorry. no contract to the people and discussing everything that nigel farage has said today, with reforms chairman richard tice will also be speaking about rachel reeves, the woman who wants to be the next chancellor, discussing how labour would bnng discussing how labour would bring us closer in alignment with the eu. wasn't that what we voted against during the brexit campaign and indeed england versus serbia? it's a win for gareth southgate. while getting all the reaction from germany .

all the reaction from germany. don't forget,