gb news. >> good evening. i'm tom harwood, bringing you the state of the nation. tonight is the labour party and likely next government. being honest about your taxes after wes streeting admission yesterday of the party manifesto not being the sum total of their tax and spend plans . keir starmers senior plans. keir starmers senior adviser has appeared to endorse adviser has appeared to endorse a further £15 billion in tax hikes . but a further £15 billion in tax hikes. but the a further £15 billion in tax hikes . but the labour party is hikes. but the labour party is fighting back all guns blazing. >> this is the tory manifesto utterly shredded by by jeremy hunt . hunt. >> meanwhile, the reform party today issued not its manifesto but what it calls a contract with the people. but does the policy match the rhetoric .7 and policy match the rhetoric? and the tories have hit out over the

labour party, over what they call a £45 billion black hole in net zero spending? but is either party being honest and upfront about the costs of going green? plus, our kafkaesque planning system might be the biggest obstacle to solving britain's housing crisis. but what role will building beautiful in architecture play? i'll be speaking to a man with a plan to make britain beautiful again. state of the nation starts now . starts now. i'll also be joined by my illustrious panel, the former brexit party turned conservative mep annunziata rees—mogg , and mep annunziata rees—mogg, and the author and broadcaster amy nicole turner. that's all coming up after your very latest headunes up after your very latest headlines with polly middlehurst

i >> -- >> tom 5mm >> tom thank you. good evening to you. well, reform uk launched its election contract with the british people today in south wales, describing it as a serious plan to reshape the way the country is run. the reform leader , nigel farage, said he leader, nigel farage, said he wouldn't call it a manifesto because too many voters have lost confidence in that term . mr lost confidence in that term. mr farage outlined plans to freeze all non essential immigration and take britain out of the european convention on human rights reform. uk would also introduce a new tax for employers who choose to hire workers from overseas, and earnings under £20,000 a year would be tax free. under reform , would be tax free. under reform, with extra funds made available by abolishing the government's net zero targets. mr farage says he wants to restore trust in british politics. >> the great british public who wants some hope, he wants some aspiration . those at the lower aspiration. those at the lower end of the income scale who

can't make ends meet, end of the income scale who can't make ends meet , those who can't make ends meet, those who are trapped on benefits and i mean trapped. they can't get off because you work for more than 16 hours a week. they take your benefits away. and we're aiming at those people. we're aiming at people who would like well paid jobs in the manufacturing sector i >> meanwhile, a press association poll of polls reflecting party ratings over the last seven days and up until today gives labour the lead with 41, ahead of the tories on 21 and reform uk on 15. but prime minister rishi sunak says he's vowing to fight on and intends to win . to win. >> it's still two and a half weeks to go in this election. i'm fighting hard for every vote because i believe we can win and there's a very clear choice at this election. it's having your taxes cut by the conservatives or facing significant tax rises with the labour party. now, we know now the manifestos are all out. everyone's cards are on the table with the conservatives. we will cut your taxes at every stage of your life. and in

contrast with labour, the tax burden is going up to the highest we've seen in our country's history. >> rishi sunak. well, sir keir starmer is promising an end to what he's called chopping and changing in government, which he says discourages investment in britain . he also vowed to drive britain. he also vowed to drive down what he called child poverty , after the institute for poverty, after the institute for fiscal studies warned the number of children affected by the two child benefit cap will rise by a third over the next five years. but sir keir said that cap will remain. >> look, it's a tough choice, i'll be clear about that. but one of the things that we are not going to do as we go into this election is to make announcements about changes that we can't afford, because a lot of damage has been done to the economy. so i'm taking the tough choice to say to people before they vote, these are some of the things we won't be able to do because of the state of the economy. what i don't want to do is do what the tories are doing, which is sort of promise the earth without the funding. and, you know, guess what? after the

event, as we've seen in the last 14 years, nothing gets delivered i >> -- >> and the liberal democrats said fuel duty relief should be expanded to 20 new areas to support motorists living in rural communities. so ed davey backed up claims by the rac that fuel retailers are continuing to charge persistently high prices despite falling wholesale costs. the party's leader says rural motorists have been particularly clobbered by the cost of living, he said, and he's calling for the current scheme to be expanded. seeing retailers compensated for passing on lower pnces compensated for passing on lower prices to drivers. that's the news. for the latest stories, do sign up to gb news alerts. scan the qr code on your screen or go to gbnews.com slash alerts . to gbnews.com slash alerts. >> thank you polly, and welcome back to state of the nation. i'm tom harwood now . repeatedly, the tom harwood now. repeatedly, the leader of reform uk, nigel farage, has said this is the

immigration election. but in reality has this become the taxation election. both main political parties have insisted they will cut your taxes though, as we've discussed repeatedly on this programme in both scenarios the tax burden is going up, not down as a share of gdp, albeit slightly higher in the case of the labour party and in that party's case, they may have been a particular calculation in the repeated mantra we won't raise taxes. quote for working people, we will not raise tax on working people. >> no tax rises for income tax, for national insurance, for vat. we will not raise income tax. we will not raise national insurance. we will not raise vat i >> whilst labour's manifesto affirms the point about no tax rate rises on vat, income or national insurance, wes streeting might have let the cat out of the bag, as when the

tories put it, talking about labour's spending plans. speaking to the bbc yesterday, he admitted the labour manifesto was not the sum total of its plans , going on to say that it's plans, going on to say that it's not the way that election campaigns work. so as well as increasing taxes on the north sea, non—doms and independent schools where else will labour fund its plans? well one morgan mcsweeney, labour's campaign manager and the power behind the throne of sir keir starmer, the man whose fingerprints are all over starmer's leadership, may well have just given us a clue. yesterday he appeared to endorse the idea of a £15 billion tax hike through doubling capital gains tax taxing investment after my reporting highlighted this, he removed the like from the linkedin post and claimed it was a mistake. and who am i to was a mistake. and who am ito question his explanation? it's just that none other than rachel reeves suggested precisely the same policy in a 2018 pamphlet

and repeatedly raised the issue as shadow chancellor back in 2021. so might the labour party be looking at taxes on investment to raise more money to fund further spending? delighted to be joined now by the former labour mp and former mep shaun simon. shaun, thanks for joining me. are people right forjoining me. are people right to be suspicious of the tories right to continually point to all the various taxes the labour party hasn't promised to not raise ? raise? >> i mean, no, the tories are not right to point to the taxes labour hasn't promised to not raise with. the truth is that labour was going into this election promising, some people will say, actually boxing themselves in scarily by promising not to raise a bigger number of big taxes than pretty much ever before, not to raise income , income tax, national income, income tax, national insurance, capital gains , not

insurance, capital gains, not capital and corporation tax . capital and corporation tax. national insurance contributions like that is the all those are the big taxes . and if you if the big taxes. and if you if you're not raising them already they will be struggling to find any tax to raise . and any tax to raise. and governments do need to raise tax and all chancellors at every budget raise taxes. i mean, there are dozens and dozens of taxes, hundreds of tax rates and what they give with one hand, with a big flourish as everybody knows, they always take a least a little bit back with some other taxes, with a lot less of a flourish. with the other hand, all chancellors in every budget always do that . always do that. >> but shaun, aren't you right to say they haven't promised not to say they haven't promised not to raise capital gains tax? it's a tax that most people don't pay but does affect everyone in the economy , because it's about the economy, because it's about the amount of investment we get in the economy. as chancellor of the economy. as chancellor of the exchequer, gordon brown cut this tax that led to sustained high growth in the late 90s and

early 2000. well, it was part of that, cocktail of policy that led to positive growth rates both under the end of the major years and the beginning of the blair years. isn't it strange that the labour party isn't promising to keep that tax where it is? and isn't it strange that the party campaign manager liked that post over the weekend, suggesting it could be doubled ? suggesting it could be doubled? >> so first thing to say about thatis >> so first thing to say about that is very great scoop by you to notice that he liked that post, which i'm not claiming. >> it's great journalism. >> it's great journalism. >> no, no, i say it is. >> it's great journalism. >> no, no, i say it is . i say it >> no, no, i say it is. i say it is 100, clearly he should not have liked that post, but rafe realistically, if they do have a top secret plan c sneakily to raise capital gains tax, which they're not telling people about, then the as you say, the

big guy behind behind the scenes , he's not going to be deliberately liking people's twitter posts, suggesting exactly such a plan. i mean, i think that must have been an accident because it would be so daft if it wasn't an accident. but and yet it fits in with what wes streeting was saying. >> this very weekend when he was asked about the level of health care spending in labour's manifesto, the nuffield trust, i'm sure you'll have seen it was on the front page of the observer on sunday said that labour's plans actually would would have a very tight chokehold on nhs spending. it would be lower increases than dunng would be lower increases than during the coalition austerity years and wes streeting the shadow health secretary, his response to that was to say that it's wrong to assume this manifesto is the grand sum total. his words, the grand sum total. his words, the grand sum total of any future budgets , any total of any future budgets, any future spending reviews, meaning there could be further taxes

raised and revenues spent that isn't in this manifesto. >> well, he he was just saying what i was just saying, kind of all every chancellor at every budget in history raises taxes. that's how government works. so inevitably there will be the early budgets and with exactly the things that they promised to do and not do in their manifesto. and as the parliament unfolds, there will be later budgets in which subsequent chancellors will make, different decisions . chancellors will make, different decisions. is it is it inconceivable that they should raise capital gains tax? i wouldn't say that was inconceivable. have they got, an absolutely nailed on seesahai plan to definitely do it? i would say very, very unlikely, but that they'll govern their governments like all governments. they'll give it with one hand and they'll take a bit back with the other, because every chancellor always does well. >> former labour mp sean simon, really appreciate your thoughts ,

really appreciate your thoughts, your analysis and your time this evening. appreciate it. i'm joined now by theo usherwood, commentator, former political editor of lbc. theo, what do you make of this whole debacle ? it's make of this whole debacle? it's something the tories are pushing very hard. all of the taxes labour hasn't said anything about. yes. >> the reason the tories are pushing it hard is because for some pollsters, this is the number one concern they have about labour is that they're going to put up the taxes now by ruling out an increase in vat, national insurance, corporation tax and corporation tax, vat and income tax . they've basically income tax. they've basically taken out what paul johnson from the ifs have described as low hanging fruit. that's 75% of the tax take. that doesn't leave a huge amount . now there is huge amount. now there is capital gains tax. there was speculation which labour of course were quite quick to rule out that they could apply capital gains tax to primary homes. that's not going to happen.then homes. that's not going to happen. then we come on to council tax banding. jonathan ashworth is now ruled out. rebel adding council tax, but they could still give councils the leeway to increase council tax beyond the 4.99, which of course

currently requires to do that would require a referendum. >> many people would say that it's actually quite bizarre that the council tax system we have right now is based on the value of a property in 1991. it disadvantages homes in the north and advantages homes in london. >> yes, absolutely. and so but what and what sean simon is saying there is correct that they do appear. and this was a point that ed balls, the former, chancellor, is making, shadow chancellor, is making, shadow chancellor was making was that actually they're boxing themselves in and they're creating this straitjacket and labour need to find a way out of that. >> it's interesting because some of this stuff isn't in the manifesto. no, it's just been said subsequently. and of course, what politicians say in a campaign that isn't in the holy manifesto binding book, perhaps they'll have wiggle room. >> it's difficult to go back on, but but what seems to have happened since the manifesto launch is they seem to be salami, salami slicing out opfions salami, salami slicing out options that they could do and creating. and the straitjacket is becoming that ed balls talked aboutis is becoming that ed balls talked about is becoming tighter and tighter and tighter. now keir starmer is pinning this all on economic growth. when he was asked about the 20 billion black hole in terms of the spending

cuts that are coming to unprotected departments within the next couple of years, how labouris the next couple of years, how labour is going to pay for them, he's saying, well, it will find the we'll find the money through economic growth. but that isn't something that's necessarily within his control . it something that's necessarily within his control. it might be something that he desperately wants. it might be something you want. i want everybody wants to see a more prosperous country. right. but in terms of what labour can actually do to support that, well, at the moment we've only really got two measures that they've announced in terms of reforming, planning laws, because of course the tories sat on that. they didn't do anything because their own backbenchers building 300,000 homes a year. and then there was an interesting article about bringing in dynamic alignment for certain industries post brexit in regards to brexit that got shut down as a result of brexit, huge amounts of paperwork . rachel reeves talked paperwork. rachel reeves talked about the chemicals industry, automotive following eu rules. but but it's not just eu rules now, it's eu rules in the future as well. you just sign up to the eu rules. >> a rule taker. >> a rule taker. >> yes. and you just accept the rules and then that takes away the paperwork. the eu don't need to fret about it and you just you just plough on with that.

and the hope is that that could lead to some economic growth as well. of course it's a gamble, a huge gamble, a gamble and limits the amount of sort of regulatory freedom that you have here in the uk. >> should we just take a look what jonathan ashworth was doing earlier today? it was quite extraordinary. let's have a watch. >> this is the tory manifesto utterly shredded by by jeremy hunt. >> well, that was the tory manifesto being shredded. i've got a copy of the front page of it here, but jonathan ashworth says that this should all be shredded, mainly because jeremy hunt seems to have spent some money twice. >> yes. and it was a sort of ed davey type press conference. laboun davey type press conference. labour, just trying to get in. and they're calling these emergency press conferences now as this war back and forth continues to try and muddy the waters. and this is this comes this story labour think they've got onto here comes from a leaflet that basically jeremy hunt was posting through as he's fighting this, as he's fighting for his constituency , which this for his constituency, which this is a newsletter to constituents last week, which said, and i'm

quoting here that the tax cuts in his party's manifesto would be funded by savings from enormous back to work programme , enormous back to work programme, which i announced in the autumn statement last year. now mr ashworth is claiming that this is a quote unquote bombshell revelation because he's saying that such cash raised from the proposed benefits cuts had already actually been accounted for as announced in november. >> well, i want to take mr ashworth's logic and apply it to some of these other manifestos , some of these other manifestos, because, of course, wes streeting said on sunday that the manifesto , the labour the manifesto, the labour manifesto, the front page of which is here, is not the grand sum total of what will be taxed and what will be spent in a labour government. so i suppose it's perfectly legitimate to do an ashworth to the labour party manifesto. but then we come to reform uk. they launched their manifesto today . manifesto today. >> this was wild. >> this was wild. >> this was wild. >> this had a huge amount of spending cuts, taking every estate below £2 million out of inheritance tax, raising the tax threshold to £20,000. do you think it's credible or do you

think it's credible or do you think it's credible or do you think it's one for the shredder? >> probably for the shredder, probably for the shredder. >> there we go. goodness me. i suppose they've got the luxury of campaigning to be an opposition. the green party >> there's a there's a huge, yes . that's got some fairly big figures in there that haven't necessarily been accounted for. i think you probably put that one in the shredder. yeah, i think it's got the largest amount of spending increases of any of the manifestos. >> and then we come to the lib dems. we can't forget about the lib dems. i'm amazed this hasn't been through some sort of assault course. >> for impartiality sake, i think you probably put i think, i think ofcom would be would be on our backs if we didn't do that. >> so there we go. what was a bunch of grand manifestos i think now stands in the shredder. thank you, jonathan ashworth, for the inspiration and thank you for usherwood for talking us through all of that. well coming up next, reform uk of course, launched their manifesto, will be piecing it back together and trying work out if isindeed is indeed a credible

break. welcome back to state of the nafion welcome back to state of the nation at 821. my name is tom harwood. now, today, the reform party issued what? nigel farage is calling their contract with the voters. >> what we're for? we're for control. borders we're for promoting genuine economic growth. we're for helping the little guy. we're about trying to restore some trust in politics. you might dislike what we say. you might not want to vote for what we say, but at least we do say what we mean . least we do say what we mean. and we want to have an absolutely radical rethink of the way in which our public services are run. and yes, that does include the national health service as well. >> some pretty bold ideas from the party. now. in second place, if you're to believe one yougov poll now freezing non—essential immigration, taking small boats back to france and increasing the tax free income allowance to

£20,000 are just a few of those policies that were confirmed in this contract, not a manifesto, a contract , not today. but is a contract, not today. but is reform uk in the luxurious position of, as nigel farage has himself admitted , aiming for himself admitted, aiming for opposition and therefore affording to be less rigorous and perhaps more idealistic with its bucket of promises. well, joining me now is william atkinson, assistant editor of conservativehome, and my panel, former brexit party turned conservative mep annunziata rees—mogg , and the author and rees—mogg, and the author and broadcaster amy nicholl turner. william, we're going to start with you, a lot of conservatives listening to that manifesto launch today would have heard a lot of things they liked. >> well, quite. but that's because it was a santa list of policies designed to tickle their bellies and show them a bit of leg. i mean, nigel farage has openly admitted that reform will do well to get about one mp. they are not going to form anything more than the opposition, even if his most sort of wild fantasies, sir, reform didn't have to bother to

give a serious manifesto, even if he doesn't like particularly like that word. this was essentially, as i say, a shopping list of policies and shouldn't be taken seriously. >> couldn't exactly the same criticism be applied to the conservative manifesto? the labour party is saying that the same money is being spent twice. they're saying that in the conservative manifesto there's policy being dreamt up. the first two weeks of this campaign was basically a policy a day. well yes, tom, but i think it's an open secret that manifestos themselves are pretty pointless documents that survive very little contact with the actual realities of governing. >> are there a good guide as to what a party actually wants to do in government? and i believe 1 or 2 voters actually go away and read them. but, you know, as the last five years have proved, you can have a particular policy agenda that you sell to the voters and are elected on. but events, dear boy, events, then intervene. >> hang on. isn't isn't one of the lessons of the last five years of conservative government that if you if you go back on manifesto commitments , you'll be manifesto commitments, you'll be punished for it. you'll be punished for it. you'll be punished for it in the polls, as we're seeing with tax and with migration. quite. >> but at the same time, you

know, there were challenges presented by not only covid, but also the war in ukraine, which provided questions that meant that manifesto commitments had to be broken with, you know, the national debt. sorry, paying back the interest on the national debt . now, of course, national debt. now, of course, as much as the department for education, that was not a circumstance any of us foresaw. on december 12th, 2019. as i say, manifestos are a very good thing to have because they at least give voters something to vote on. but they are. they are normally hideously unrealistic documents . and nigel farage's documents. and nigel farage's new one is just a sterling example of the general genre. >> well, let's broaden this discussion out. amy annunziata . discussion out. amy annunziata. amy, let's start with you. your general impression of today. >> you know what? i think william made some really good points there. and what i take away from it is that reform is, it's going to be popular. but in the same way, mcdonald's is very popular, seems delicious at the time, but in the long run, it's very, very bad for you. it's that same type of feeling. however, i think that this is interesting because this is all of nigel farage's doing. it stems from brexit, doesn't it

really ? because the brexit really? because the brexit fundamentally changed the conservative party. and then when they couldn't keep the promises that brexit made and they made promises in the 2019 manifesto, which you know, took the took votes from labour, it gave them that landslide. but the promise that a brexit was a vote on do you want to change the status quo? and people said yes and then it didn't change. so now we're seeing the rise of reform. but i think nigel farage tried to sell us some tripe before and it didn't work out. let's not fall for it again. >> i suppose nigel farage would say he's not been in government for the last five years, but annunziata, what do you make of him? >> i think it's a wish list as william says. i think a lot of it is unrealistic. as amy says, but i think they have begun to tone down in their level of rhetoric, and that it's gone from we will stop the boats , we from we will stop the boats, we will stop immigration. we will have below net zero immigration allowed to we'll stop

non—essential immigration. well, that's a very big difference that's a very big difference that how do you define essential? how many people do we need? how many millions might that be that these are quite big changes. but also there's a lot of very left wing as well as right wing. it is a pure tick boxing exercise as far as i can see. what might go down. >> well, i wonder if some of this moderation william might be vie nigel farage thinking about what happens after this election. all sorts of rumours, all sorts of non—denial denials about some sort of merger , well, about some sort of merger, well, look, the model that nigel farage is currently touting is that of the canadian reform party and the canadian conservatives after the 1993 canadian election, where, as we've all learned in the last two weeks, the canadian conservative party was all but wiped out, look, it took, 2 or 3 elections, of both parties losing to canada's centre left party. and before any merger happens and it also meant that, their conservative party was

reduced to only two seats and reform gained about 50. even on the worst , sort of reform gained about 50. even on the worst, sort of summaries of what could happen after this election. the conservative party is still going to have at least 70 more mps than reform will have if a party with about 200 years of history sold itself, or even more actually, if you go all the way back to the exclusion crisis, but nevertheless, if you if a party with that much history sold itself so cheaply just because nigel farage gives it one fright at an election, i think the conservative party which obviously i have an interest in continuing because i work at conservative, hang on the conservative party has done this before. >> it merged with the liberal unionists, it became the conservative and unionist party . conservative and unionist party. we can't do another merger 100 years later. >> yeah, but the liberal unionists had far more mps than one. you know, nigel farage is very good at attracting media attention to himself, but he's not fundamentally that serious a politician. but he's you know, he's been in politics for nine seats, aren't they? >> reform and i think they're showing the direction of travel of the political right. surely in this country we're seeing, i think again, i hate to keep bringing up brexit. you're not you're not going to agree with

this, amy, but i think william might not either. >> but i think the reason the conservatives find themselves in this position is that they haven't delivered on being the conservative party. they've got written on the tin and if they returned to the actual, theories , values, principles that conservative voters and members stand for, then we wouldn't be in this position. and it might be selling yourself out cheaply because nigel farage might have one, if he's lucky, might have nine if it's extraordinary. i think that's beyond any poll i've actually yet seen. but mps to 70 at the tories probable worst . but the tories have worst. but the tories have a duty to listen to the voters and thatis duty to listen to the voters and that is what the party must do to recognise it has lost its way, and it must realign with the right . the right. >> the final word to you on this issue does it matter if reform has 5 or 6 mps? if they have 5

or 6 million votes behind them? well, i think that obviously the number of votes will matter, and i think the question of electoral reform will reappear after this election. >> but coming back on michael's point, the conservatives might lose one seat to reform after this election. they're going to lose hundreds to labour and the liberal democrats. we had a conservative leader during this parliament who posed as a genuine conservative, despite the fact she'd been a former member of the liberal democrats . member of the liberal democrats. and she was the worst prime minister we've ever had, and the worst leader, the conservative party has ever had. we're losing far more voters to labour and the liberal democrats than on conservative home that more conservative home that more conservative voters want the tories to move to the right than want them, than feel that they have moved too far. >> goodness me, i'm afraid we've run to the end of this segment, but a huge thanks to both my panel and to william atkinson of conservativehome really appreciate it. now, the labour party, they're saying they're going to clamp down on north sea gas and oil in this drive to meet net zero by 2050. is it economic suicide or a necessary step to avert a ? we'll find out

right after

break. welcome back to state of the nafion welcome back to state of the nation at 8.33. my name is tom harwood. now energy secretary claire coutinho has claimed that keir starmer's net zero pledge to end any new north sea oil and gas licences will, quote, take britain back to the dark ages. the labour leader has vowed to instead invest in cheap, clean, home—grown energy that we can control in his bid to further decrease britain's contribution towards climate change. however, the energy secretary has warned that this will create a £45 billion tax black hole that would destroy jobs and raise bills. these claims come as labour's jonathan ashworth was today unable to answer questions on just how much lower household bills would become under a labour government, despite

insisting that bills will still be cut if starmer was to be elected . well, with me is my elected. well, with me is my panel elected. well, with me is my panel. former brexit party turned conservative mep annunziata rees—mogg and the author and broadcaster amy nicholl turner, but first let's go to patrick christys, to see the very latest on what's going to come up next. >> yes, absolutely. well, in a little bit earlier than expected, this evening, but i just wanted to let you know about a big gb news exclusive that we've got coming your way at 9 pm. so thank you very much for that opportunity. tom it's massive, actually. the channel migrant crisis has been looming large over britain for a hack of a long time. and a lot of people are wondering about what will happen after this election. well we came into possession of some information from french authorities, which appears to indicate that things are actually about to imminently get actually about to imminently get a heck of a lot worse. so we're revealing the full detail of this at 9 pm, but it's worth beanng this at 9 pm, but it's worth bearing in mind, isn't it? when people like reforms, say, well,

this is the immigration election. will turning the boats back actually really work ? i back actually really work? i mean, is that legal? they say it is. a lot of people would beg to differ on that. the labour party, well , their latest party, well, their latest approach to this appears to be appears to be to allow around 90,000 people who have currently been scheduled to be deported to rwanda to actually claim asylum in this country. rwanda to actually claim asylum in this country . you look at the in this country. you look at the conservatives. i think many people might argue that the trust aspect of that has gone after years and years of not just the channel migrant crisis, but on top of that, of course, record levels of legal immigration. so at 9:00 tonight, we'll be revealing some quite astonishing information that might actually realise that the next government has a heck of a lot of work on their hands. a couple of other things that i've got coming your way as well this evening, though. kwasi kwarteng, the former chancellor he's going to be live in this studio that's at 10 pm. now. there's a lot of question marks here over the conservative party's campaign. i was getting a lot of tweets over

the weekend, not really just over the weekend for quite a long time, actually posing the question to me, patrick, do you really think that the conservatives actually want to win this election? i thought, well, you were kind of quivering on the edge of a conspiracy theory there, aren't we really if we're saying no, of course they don't want to win the election. they don't really thought about it. and i wonder, where is jeremy hunt? you know, he's the chancellor, rachel reeves. labour are putting her front and centre. well, he's nowhere to be found. does he actually back rishi sunak's economic pledges? labour said there's a £71 billion gap in those finances. the other aspect of this is there are a lot of things that i wonder whether or not most people would attack sir keir starmer on whether it's this story that broke over the weekend about him being on some kind of chat slovakian communist spy kind of chat slovakian communist spy list, or whether it's other certain aspects of his own policy pledges as well. why isn't rishi sunak actually attacking him on that? do you think that he actually wants to win? then following that, i have got geoff hoon now. geoff hoon, i think most people will know, but i'll give him a little introduction anyway. former defence secretary, former for

minister europe, on top of a couple of other high ranking roles as well. now he's going to be answering some hard hitting questions on where labour really are, not least on great british energy. now, we were told that this would bring our bills down and it will create jobs. and yet today it's emerged that they can't tell us how much your bills will be down by and whether or not any of the jobs they said they're going to create will actually be new. do you not think that's quite a concern? the other aspect of this is if we're being asked to pay this is if we're being asked to pay billions, and it is billions of pounds worth of taxpayers for money a new green energy plan is any of that going to be new, or are they actually just going to try to buy existing wind farms, solar farms, etc. from the private sector that i think many people would think that that makes it absolutely pointless. it's a hard hitting show today, that big exclusive right at the top at 9 pm, so make sure that you tune in for that. kwasi kwarteng at ten, geoff hoon at 10:20. and of course, we're also going to be talking about that remarkable incident involving surrey police and a rogue cow. i

have got an eyewitness to that event on with some astonishing detail that, frankly, the police do not want you to know about. okay the police do not want you to know about what this chap is going to tell us. but before all of that, throughout the election campaign , we are going to be campaign, we are going to be heanng campaign, we are going to be hearing from people right across the united kingdom about what really matters to them. is it issues such as nhs waiting list? is it the impact of immigration? is it the impact of immigration? is it the cost of living crisis? is it the cost of living crisis? is it the cost of living crisis? is it crime? policing well, our reporters have been out and about to meet some voters from all four nations, and we're going to be hearing from them regularly before polling day. and actually a little bit earlier on as well. one of our reporters , sophie reaper, was reporters, sophie reaper, was out and about meeting some locals , and i think that we locals, and i think that we might be able to hear from sophie reaper about now. i think so shall we should we see what the people of greater manchester

had to say? >> hi, i'm natalie and i live in south manchester, so the most important issue for me in the upcoming general election is that the next government sort out and get stability in housing and property and the economy. our work as a landlord and i have done for 25 years, and it's just a mess at the minute. so as a voter in south manchester, i have floated between the lib dems and labour and those few choices in south manchester, the conservatives never get in in this area. don't stand a chance on a national level. the conservatives, for me as a landlord and a property owner, have been unbelievably disappointing . i think they've disappointing. i think they've been disappointing for landlords and tenants, to be honest. they have not got their act together. what they've promised hasn't materialised . they've chopped materialised. they've chopped and changed their mind. they haven't followed through on their promises , they've made it their promises, they've made it confusing for everybody, so they've been useless actually, on every front. the problem is, as landlords who are traditionally been supported by the conservative party, when labour gets in, you think, oh god, because they talk about rent controls, they talk about the fact that they don't like

landlords . landlords have got landlords. landlords have got a really bad rap, so it makes me really bad rap, so it makes me really nervous. so it's quite confusing and i just who do you vote for as somebody that owns property? i really like, don't know who to vote for because i don't know who will be the worst and that's not to say i don't know who they'd be the best, because i think either of them will be good. >> okay. welcome back. so. yes look, to state the blindingly obvious i was not expecting to be on at this time, but we will go back to our westminster studio very, very shortly . so studio very, very shortly. so stay tuned for more tom harwood. in the meantime, though, we do have an additional dose. and this, by the way, is no bad thing of carole maloney, the express columnist, and somebody who you'll be seeing a lot more of on my panel later on this evening. and, carole, i want you to have a quick chat with you, really, about whether or not rishi sunak should be attacking keir starmer personally. more, apparently, some of his cabinet ministers have said to him, look, we are we are right in the proverbial here. you don't seem to have the bottle to go after keir starmer on a personal level.

>> and i think that's such a shame because starmer is famous for that. remember when boris, you know, was, you know, when bofis you know, was, you know, when boris was under fire, starmer was always going after him personally calling him a liar, you know, going right to the heart of boris character. it's exactly what sunak should be doing. but he runs away from that. and i think, you know, i think sunak is a very decent man, but i think he's a terrible leader and i think he just he just doesn't have that killer instinct. can you imagine if nigel was was in charge at the moment nigel pharaohs he he'd be going for him big time. moment nigel pharaohs he he'd be going for him big time . and i going for him big time. and i think this is just not the way sunakis think this is just not the way sunak is made, which is more's the pity he should be. he should be tough because there are attack lines, you know? >> so labour apparently wants to make it easier for people over the age of 18. so we're not talking about kids here, but over the age of 18, to legally change gender. so that could mean you could you could see the post is no more men and women's changing rooms. bosch. is that not the female vote? must be about 50% of the british electorate. i imagine a lot of those would vote against a party that wanted more blokes in

women's changing rooms. >> he could, you know, he could attack him on that. he could attack him on that. he could attack him on that. he could attack him on, the 16 he could on the 16 year olds because essentially it's vote rigging. patrick. and what labour are trying to do is make sure they're in for the next ten years, not just the next five. and so there are there are he could he he could, he could list all the times that starmer has rowed back on policies and just list them, say this is what you said in 2019, this is what you said. and that could go on for ten minutes on its own. and i think also he he should be going on the attack and for the rest of us, not just attacking starmer but saying stuff we want to hear. imagine how it would change the election if he suddenly said, tomorrow, right, we're going to leave the echr we know what's going to happen with immigration under labour. we know what's coming. so i'm going to leave the echr. other things like inheritance tax ban it, all the things that people want and that would make them turn to the tories at the moment because it's electoral oblivion. well, i was thinking over the weekend and there have been a lot of people, whether it's on gbnews.com/yoursay or whether

it's on twitter or just people like me, out and about. >> actually you do now ask me with a degree of regularity, do you think that the conservatives actually want to win this election? and, you know, before that i thought, look, it's not delve into the realms of conspiracy theory and all of that stuff. and i do think at their core, obviously the tories do want to win the election. i think you look at the way the campaign has gone and you think, what is their big sell? what is he really selling? is he selling a positive vision for the conservative party of britain going forward? i'm not sure it's more about damage limitation. >> no, i think he is selling policy. i think he's selling far more policies than labour is. labour's strategy is let's not say we're going to do anything specific because we're going to get, you know, we're going to get, you know, we're going to get hung on it in six months time. let's not do that now. he's put lots of policies forward, but there's no killer instinct in starmer. you don't see he says one thing and no one believes him anymore. and that i think is part of the problem. he's he was never the man for the job. the tories must be rueing the day. i'm sick of heanng rueing the day. i'm sick of hearing the tories saying vote for reform and it's a vote for

starmer. it's their fault. it's starmer. it's theirfault. it's sunak's fault. it's their fault. >> i saw a clip over the weekend that was just from a like a normal bloke on twitter, actually. but he's a conservative as opposed to the rest of us. well, no, but it's not. not what you'd say is a pundit, not a journalist, you know. yeah. and i thought it was hilarious, but it was so true. you know, it was over a clip of nigel farage giving it large on, on twitter, you know, and he said he's a conservative voter and literally all they needed to do to stop this was to reduce immigration. and i think in the cold light of day, when we're five years down the line or however many years down the line, the conservatives will look back at the 14 years they had and think all they needed to do to stop nigel farage was to make good on some promises about our borders. >> think about it. the 2019 election, labour lost it on immigration. they lost it because they knew what corbyn's policies were going to be. they knew that that corbyn would take us back into brexit and that would be increased immigration and migration. and that's so. so labour lost it in 2019. but that's kind of what is what amazes me about the fact that labouris amazes me about the fact that labour is so far ahead in the

polls, they know what starmer is going to do. they know how many people are, you know the rest of europe is going to the right and they're building walls and stopping people, whereas we're going to say, come in. >> well, that ties in perfectly with this exclusive that we're going to be discussing at 9 pm, actually, because as the rest of europe shifts to the right, we are seeing some dramatic stuff and we're about to see some very dramatic stuff taking place in calais. okay. and that is going to be a big problem for us. i'll reveal all of the details of this in probably about ten minutes. time for you. trust me, i'm not just saying this. it is well worth a watch and a listen because actually it's incredibly stark about what is about to happenin stark about what is about to happen in the next few weeks and that will be post—election. and then we have to see whatever policy may or may not be in charge at that time, whether or not you think that they are equipped to deal with what is about to come our way. but look. thank you very much. khalife bonus carol here, which is absolutely fantastic stuff. after the break, i was speaking to heale of the about reforms and manifesto, so

okay. welcome back. now, look, i'll just address the elephant in the room. yes i am on air a little bit early, just to reassure everybody. there was a brief moment of chaos there. unfortunately, a fire alarm has gone off in the building that contains our westminster studios . everyone is fine. everyone is absolutely fine. but that is why i had to rush on air a little bit earlier, and i'm not sure we'll be hearing from tom harwood again, but crucially, not because of any fire related incident. anyway, welcome back reform uk manifesto came out today. there's quite a lot of interesting stuff in it. all right. so i'm going to whizz you through a couple of bits and bobs. immigration freeze non—essential immigration, pick up illegal migrants out of boats and take them back to france, leave the echr zero illegal migrants will be settled in the uk and there's quite a bit there. also on students, they're looking at floating the idea of students doing two year, not three year degrees to help save the taxpayer money. and presumably a lot of students, a lot of effort as well, which is good, on tax they want to scrap

vat on energy bills, cut residential stamp duty. and there's a heck of a lot to go out here and here to, to pick through some of the numbers is james hale of the spectator. james, great to see you at this particular time of day , so what particular time of day, so what do you make of this reform party manifesto then? is it any good or loads of holes in it and it doesn't add up ? doesn't add up? >> well, you know, the guardian are calling it liz truss on steroids, so maybe that's something good about it, i mean, it's a big, bold manifesto. there's a certain irony here, of course, patrick, which is that today it was being launched in south wales as a way of highlighting labour's record in power. but actually, of course, all these policy ideas are very much aimed at tory voters and in particular, the 2019 brexit voting coalition that boris johnson stitched together . so johnson stitched together. so i think there's a lot of stuff here that's going to appeal to them, particularly in sort of them, particularly in sort of the red wall areas. and i think that right now this is getting more people excited than a lot of the tory manifesto policies are. yeah. >> now i am actually going to be talking to you, hopefully, james, in a bit more detail on my own show a little bit later on. but when it comes to the

polls, the latest one i saw actually had reform in the tories neck and neck on 18 points each. the one that came out i think was on thursday. now, it might have been wednesday had had reformed just one point up. so it's steady right. the reform support appears to be quite steady. do you think that this manifesto will see any kind of movement there? >> i suspect it will only add to that, really. i mean, the key thing, of course, is momentum. and that's something that, you know, nigel has been saying about the whole campaign. i've been to a lot of his, you know, appearances at the very start. he was being a lot more cagey about what they could do. and now, obviously in the last few days, he's been talking about, you know, replacing the tories as the opposition, in the next term in the next parliament. so i think that this is really about kind of adding to, you know, the point in the direction of travel. you know, at the press conference today, he was saying, you know, look, we're not going to be the party of government after the election. i think this is much more about kind of bridging the next five years to 2029. and you see this already. you're saying this election is done. this is much more about, you know, rather than the next sort of three weeks. it's about the next three years, the six next years about getting to 2029. so i think that that's what this is all about,

really. and about sort of pointing the direction for the right. i'll just i'll just tease ahead to another aspect of this as well, which is that apparently anyone who's on some form of jobseeker's allowance will have, i think, four months to accept a job. >> that was my understanding of what they said in their manifesto there or their contract with the nation. for a lot of people, that's a major issue for them getting especially 18 to 32 year olds off their backsides and into work. and i think that could play work. and i think that could play well. >> i also think that, you know, it's something that the tories have tried to do, but in a far less radical form, you know, they've had a lot of sort of welfare reforms, you know, the long term out of work on benefits. and i think this is really a sort of short, sharp shock treatment, which is actually going to pull out very well. i thought. i think, of course it's going to be unlikely to go ahead, because i think you can see sort of legal issues with actually when the blob will try to stop it properly, but yeah, look, this is the kind of thing that i think will poll very well, you know, i imagine sort of 70, 80% of the public will love it. and, you know, it's something that's a serious issue in the next parliament, whoever wins. >> absolutely. well, james, thank you very much. please don't go too far because we'll be talking to you again shortly. that's james heale there of the spectator. well, i have had the opportunity to tease what i've got on my show in a greater way

than i've ever had before. so i will do it again. we've got a big exclusive for you on the channel. migrant crisis. that's at 9 pm. i've got kwasi kwarteng, former chancellor, steaming into it at 10 pm, followed, of course, by geoff hoon, former defence secretary, amongst other things. a really big name in that blair government, wasn't he? we'll be talking to him about whether or not keir starmer can be trusted , not keir starmer can be trusted, as there's a heck of a lot to go up. we're having a big debate as well as to whether or not the police were right to ram that cow in surrey. i've got an eyewitness to the cow police attack and he has got some astonishing detail that the police do not want you to know about divided opinion, that particular incident. and would you sing ten german bombers in the air to the media? need to stop pearl clutching and accept it's just football fans having fun. stay tuned. >> for a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> hello. good evening. welcome to your latest gp news weather update from the met office. it will be another bright start to

tuesday, however, it's going to cloud over through the day and there's a risk of some pretty heavy showers once again, low pressure, still quite close to northern areas, so that's bringing that shower risk, particularly across the north and east through today. but that shower risk will move over to the northwest through tomorrow . the northwest through tomorrow. so a few showers still to come for eastern scotland through tonight as well . it will remain tonight as well. it will remain fairly cloudy and drizzly across northern areas of scotland, but elsewhere for the rest of the uk. it will be a clear and dry night, with the risk of some mist and fog developing by tomorrow morning and temperatures around 11 or 12 degrees for most towns and cities. so bright start to the day on tuesday, potentially a bit of mist and fog around, but it's the far north of scotland that's going to see the cloudiest of skies, and with that northerly wind it's going to be feeling not a lot like summer at all. 11 or 12 degrees at best, nine degrees for some of us. and some quite persistent drizzly rain. now temperatures rise as we head further south, with more in the way of sunshine to start the day. as i said, there is a chance of some mist

and fog and notice this massive rain over the near continent that will start to approach from the south and east through tuesday and through tuesday lunchtime. and we could see some heavy rain across parts of kent and sussex and then towards essex, parts of suffolk as well, later on in the day. so here it will turn potentially quite wet. we could also see some very heavy showers across western areas of scotland, as well as northwestern england, but elsewhere a dry and fairly bright day but a little bit cooler than today. tomorrow now another bright start to come on wednesday and wednesday is looking like a much brighter day, but by and large as well. however we do have a weather front approaching from the north and west that will bring thicker cloud to parts of scotland, northern ireland as well. later on in the day. but for most of us it stays dry and bright as we head through wednesday, thursday and likely into friday as well, with temperatures rising towards 24 degrees, looks like things are heating up . are heating up. >> boxt boilers sponsors of weather

gb news. >> it's 9 pm. i'm patrick christys tonight. yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah . a gb news yeah yeah yeah. a gb news exclusive on the channel. migrant crisis. expect things to get very, very bad . more detail get very, very bad. more detail coming up shortly. >> also, we know what we're for . >> also, we know what we're for. we're for control borders. we're for promoting genuine economic growth with for helping the little guy. we're about trying to restore some trust in politics. >> does reforms manifesto actually add up though? >> plus starmer is the only other person who can conceivably walk into downing street . walk into downing street. >> former chancellor kwasi kwarteng is live with me in this studio at 10 pm, with some revelations about the tory

party's election campaign. also,