reverting. if not, tell me why and if, as the polls suggest, the labour party win a landslide, it's being predicted by some that we're going to see a mass exodus of the wealthy . do a mass exodus of the wealthy. do you agree with that? and what could we do to prevent it? and let's move away from politics, shall we? let me ask you, do you think we need to reduce the dnnk think we need to reduce the drink drive limit in this country? and let's cross upon joe biden? is he losing his marbles or is he a victim of video manipulation? that's what the white house are claiming. what says you ? got all of that what says you? got all of that to come and more . but first, to come and more. but first, let's cross live for the 6:00

news. >> michelle. thank you. well, the top story from the newsroom today is that the prime minister faced questions from farmers on a visit to devon this afternoon. rishi sunak argued that nigel farage wouldn't be able to deliver on any of his party's promises because, he said a vote for reform uk would only help laboun for reform uk would only help labour. he said it would been a privilege to understand the contribution farmers make to society , before then, warning society, before then, warning that 40,000 jobs could be lost as a result of labour's plans is how. >> now. >> the contrast at this election is crystal clear because whilst we're going to do all those things for you, as david said in the labour manifesto, there were just 87 words about farming , no just 87 words about farming, no commitment to food production and food security , no commitment and food security, no commitment at all about the farming budget in the next parliament. forget about increasing it like we're going to do. they won't even say

that they're going to protect it right like that is the choice for you at this election, which is why it's so important that you come out and vote and you talk to your colleagues. >> rishi sunak talking this afternoon. well, more than 41,000 migrants have now crossed the english channel in small boats since rishi sunak promised to end the crisis in january last year. gb news can reveal. that figure was passed today after more than 600 migrants made the crossing earlier on this morning amid improved weather conditions. the prime minister says it's further evidence as to why the rwanda policy is necessary, while the labour leader, sir keir starmer , labour leader, sir keir starmer, highlighted his party's plan to take swift action. >> when i think the idea of processing claims as close to source as possible is a good idea , we also need to smash the idea, we also need to smash the gangs that are running this vile trade because under this tory government, they've lost control of the borders and we will, you know, set up a border security command, a new elite command

with new powers and resources to smash the gangs that are running the vile trade in the first place. because, as you rightly say, a record number have crossed the channel this year already . and nobody but nobody already. and nobody but nobody should be making that journey across the channel >> keir starmer now nigel farage has said this afternoon that he'd abolish the television licence fee which funds the bbc. the reform uk leader was speaking during a town hall style event this afternoon . it style event this afternoon. it comes as the bbc said it would allow reform to take part in an extra question time leaders special , after mr farage's team special, after mr farage's team complained about being left out. and today is the last day to register to vote in the upcoming general election in july . that's general election in july. that's about two weeks from now. a social media campaign is urging first time voters to ensure they're on the electoral roll. after a sharp drop off in turnout among younger people. those not yet registered have until midnight tonight to

complete that process online. the liberal democrats promised today to spend £10 million a year to tackle the practice of sewage dumping by water companies, new quality inspectors would work as part of a newly created clean water authority. sir ed davey says it's crucial that britain's water is cleaned up. >> there's nowhere near enough sewage monitors. we're calling them sewage busters . we want to them sewage busters. we want to provide £10 million in our cost of manifesto. so our new regulator, the clean water authority, has the resources because we do need a tough regulator as we're proposing, with powers coming from other regulators. so we have a much stronger regulator, but they need the resources to do the job. and we've seen on the conservatives cutting back the environment agency, where some of these monitors were , and we of these monitors were, and we want to make sure the resources are there as well as the rules. >> now, a review has found that four police detectives who ran the first investigation into the

murder of stephen lawrence shouldn't face criminal charges. it found there was insufficient evidence and no real prospect of a conviction that means none of the four retired detectives is going to be charged . ed stephen going to be charged. ed stephen lawrence was murdered in 1993, in a racist attack in south london. the original investigation was harshly criticised and failed to bring anyone to justice, and sir ian mckellen is said to be in good spirits after he fell off the stage during a performance in london's west end last night. the 85 year old acting veteran was performing a fight scene in player kings at the noel coward theatre when he lost his footing and tumbled right off the stage . and tumbled right off the stage. the theatre was evacuated, while sir ian was quickly taken to hospital. tomorrow's show has now been cancelled, though he's expected to return in time for thursday's performance . we wish thursday's performance. we wish him well. those are the latest news stories. sign up to gb news alerts. scan the qr code on your

screen or go to gb news. common alerts . alerts. >> thank you very much for that, polly. i'm michelle dewberry. i'm with you till 7:00 tonight alongside me , my panel. i've alongside me, my panel. i've reunited them. the conservative peer lord lord shaun bailey and the trade unionist and broadcaster paul embery. good evening to both of you. i'll let you into a little secret. everybody. they've come, almost dressed identical . one of them's dressed identical. one of them's had to leave their jacket outside so that they don't match too much on the screen tonight. you're very trendy , aren't you? you're very trendy, aren't you? >> shouldn't be telling people they're behind the scenes secrets . secrets. >> the scene's the same colour jacket, but he's one was considerably more expensive than mine. so he's a tory. so obviously it was ironed. >> that was. >> that was. >> i mean, look at him. >> i mean, look at him. >> he's so glad to have it ironed. >> and we decided that he should keep his jacket on and i'll have to i'll have to wear this rag, ragged old shirt. >> i'll let you i'll let you

decide who is the most stylish. of course, it's about you guys at home as well. get in touch with me tonight all the usual ways. email gbviews@gbnews.uk. com go on the website gbnews.com/yoursay. or you can tweet or x me. and yes, i have seen your comments on my outfit tonight, so i'm just going to ignore them. i can't explain high fashion to each and every one of you. don't have time, i'm afraid because i'll tell you who's waiting for me. the political editor, christopher hope. he is on the tory battle bus tonight. well, he's outside of it. by the looks of it. hello, christopher. what have we missed today on the campaign trail? >> hi, michelle. how are you? >> hi, michelle. how are you? >> oh, we're excellent. we're excited. that's right. we are today. we're really excited. we're really excited to see this bus because i happen to remember you promising my viewers a little. you was going to take us around the back of the bus. i'm sure. i'm sure that was you making those promises. >> well, i'll. >> well, i'll. >> that's just kevin being me tonight, michelle. but i'll. i'll show you in a minute. i'll just go to finish on today in nonh just go to finish on today in north devon. we've been with the prime minister he's been with fishermen talking about plans to

ensure that the uk will hang on to its quotas . if the tories win to its quotas. if the tories win the election, they won't negotiate away the rights of fishing as they, as they say, labour will. labour will deny that, of course, but they want a closer deal with the european union, they've also been warning with farmers that labour would try and tax farming families who leave farms within a family and make them pay inheritance tax. the tories wouldn't do that. they the tories say labour would do that, there's also they've raised concerns about, sir keir starmer. and would he actually try to re—evaluate homes and bringing new council tax bands today on a radio phone in sir keir starmer wouldn't deny he wouldn't do it . and that's wouldn't do it. and that's prompted an assertion from rishi sunak that the prime minister that if you give five more years to the tory party they will not re—evaluate to try and change council tax bands which could lead, he says, to increase council tax for millions of

families, labour sinner they've got new plans to protect pubs and stop people , stop landlords and stop people, stop landlords selling pubs to make them easier for communities to take them oven for communities to take them over. and liberal democrats are announcing £10 million to spend on what they call sewage busters inspectors to tackle some pollution. and just in the past houn pollution. and just in the past hour, michelle, there's been a big poll out, an mrp, a detailed seat by seat poll from ipsos mori. again, labour gets a huge majority 453 seats to the tories 115. what's fascinating is 117 of those are too close to call within a margin of 5, and that means that 56 could be won by the tories, 48 marginally by laboun the tories, 48 marginally by labour. so the view is that there's all to play for in these final two weeks or so of the campaign. but just to highlight their cabinet minister, penny mordaunt, grant shapps gillian keegan and other big names to lose their seats, and also nigel farage to win three for reform uk, including clacton, trusting

stuff and i'll get into that with my panel in just a second. >> i'm going to show us this bus then. >> are you sure on the outside it says clear plan, bold action and secure future. that's the slogan . but this way, paul, slogan. but this way, paul, we'll go round this way. so i'll. i'll let you go at the front day. this way. so this is the way in to rishi sunak battle bus. it was formerly owned and run by oxford united. oxford united football team , they got united football team, they got promoted to the championship, so maybe that might be a good thing for rishi sunak. we don't know, but come on. come inside. >> let's go. >> let's go. >> so you go up this way. this is where the pub. all aboard. okay >> this is the way we can feel the power down the screen. >> can you see it's falling? we can. sorry. this is journalist working hard. we'll ignore these people privacy , hello. and to people privacy, hello. and to the very end, you'll see. you'll see. can i show you? i'll show

you the. there's a microwave here. oh, yeah. microwave. yeah. and there's some fridges down here. some fridges. you're like an air hostess and some water. that was not. and a coffee machine. here you are , and machine. here you are, and there's some nice bling on the ceiling . there's some nice bling on the ceiling. i'll there's some nice bling on the ceiling . i'll show you all. come ceiling. i'll show you all. come this way, please. >> if it all goes wrong , you this way, please. >> if it all goes wrong, you can be an estate agent and a future life. you're doing a very good, detailed tour here. i like it, okay, so you get in trouble. oh, i think he's got stuck on the on the back of a chair. >> oh, backwards . >> oh, backwards. >> oh, backwards. >> there we are. >> there we are. >> back we go. >> back we go. >> can you go backwards? there we are all backwards. >> you see, you don't get this out of the channels. >> we get we get behind the scenes. we where are you taking us now? to the toilets . what's us now? to the toilets. what's going on now? >> this is the acting. >> this is the acting. >> i thought it was taking us to the khazi. >> then i've. >> then i've. >> i've entered. yeah no, no, no, this is the back of the bus. michelle. where where we discussed earlier. oh, yes.

that's the back of the bus. and there you have it. so it's kind of wrapped in this kind of blue film. it's wrapped in this blue film. it's wrapped in this blue film , and so this will be ripped film, and so this will be ripped off when the elections finished. but for now, this is the campaign which all the journalists go on and occasionally rishi sunak balls to tell us about his plans for another term as prime minister. but the polls suggest it will be a labour prime minister next time. >> oh interesting stuff. i'll let you climb back on board. i don't want it to take off without you, christopher. thank you very much for that. he did just mention . get on. hold on to just mention. get on. hold on to it, thank you very much . that's it, thank you very much. that's our political editor, christopher hope. he did just mention there. of course , nigel mention there. of course, nigel farage in the clacton constituency. so rules are rules. i do have to mention all the other people are standing . the other people are standing. you've got german, oswald. nepal from the labour party, giles watling from the tory party. matthew bensalem from the lib dems, nigel farage, reform uk , dems, nigel farage, reform uk, natasha osbourne from the green

party, craig jamieson from the climate party, tony mac from the, what is an independent? and tassos, papanastasiou from the heritage party and andrew pemberton , from ukip. so there pemberton, from ukip. so there you go. you see, that's what i like about gb news because, everyone talks about spin rooms, this and battle rooms that and battle buses that . but actually, battle buses that. but actually, who knows what goes on in those places. it's nice, isn't it, to get behind the scenes. look, we've got just a few hours to go until, registrations for, voting close. so 23, 59, to be precise. everyone, how do you think we can galvanise more people to register to vote? >> sean, i think there's three things to say. firstly, we've got to teach that voting is important. >> hang on. if you're wanting to do it by the way, you can get your smartphones out now. open up your smartphones out now. open up your camera and take a picture of the qr code on the screen, and that will take you to the place where you need to be registering. >> sorry sherm, as i was saying,

the first thing is we've got to teach that voting is important. people died for this, right? in 1918, they did the representation of people act and they let almost everybody vote. women over 30 could vote along with everybody else. but people had to fight to even improve from that point. i mean, we had a very low turnout . i think it a very low turnout. i think it was in 2020, 2020, 2001. we had a really low turnout. the last turnout was 68% in 2019. wasn't that bad . let's see. we can beat that bad. let's see. we can beat that bad. let's see. we can beat that now. now 2019 was 60, 70, 63, 67.3. but the point i'm trying to make is if you want people to vote, talk about voting positively . stop talking voting positively. stop talking about a low turnout and let people know people died for this. right, paul? >> it strikes me that you need to give people an incentive to vote, and that means giving them a proper choice. and i think many of them feel that they don't have a proper choice, because i think the main parties, the three main parties, have converged on that narrow strip in the centre so much that many people think , well, what's

many people think, well, what's the point in voting turnout has gone down quite markedly since the 1980s, and that was when there was a real choice between there was a real choice between the main political parties. i think ideally they're as close now as they've been for a long time. the corbyn period? obviously not. i disagree, i think ideologically it's crucial. and if you look at all of them, no, no, no, i'm not. >> look at europe. hold on, hold on, look at europe. >> look at privatised nation. look at the role of the state, whether the state should be an active or passive state. look at nato, look at nuclear weapons. but on all of those big issues in the 80s, the labour party is saying, hold on this. >> these two things. i'm not disagreeing. i'm not disagreeing that there's a convergence, but that there's a convergence, but that convergence is being driven by the by by the people. most people in this country would agree on nato, etc, etc. but here's the here's the thing. that's how democracy works. if people don't like what they have presented to them, do a nigel farage start your own party and get involved. the point is, the point is you can't complain that you have nothing to vote for. you're not voting for these

political parties. you're voting for the existence of our nation. get up and vote, sean. >> the proof that the status quo didn't work is 2016 and the brexit referendum, because in that referendum, millions of people realised that they were not represented at the highest levels of our public life. and all of those people who felt that they were treated with disdain by the political establishment, decided to fire a missile back at the establishment. and that was that was a shock to the system , to my was a shock to the system, to my system. it was no, it was no, it wasn't. it was a shock. >> it was only a shock to people who wanted to stay. >> it was driven, sean, by the fact that actually, most people don't agree, wasn't driven by that consensus, driven by the fact that people wanted to leave europe. >> and again, democracy wanted to leave the eu. let's be accurate. democracy gave them democracy . the democracy gave democracy. the democracy gave them the opportunity to vote and do it. and even if it wasn't just that, what they were disillusioned with was the was the was what they were presented with from europe. the point is, democracy gave them an opportunity to get up and vote

to make a change, which they did in 2016. >> referendum for most people wasn't just about the narrow question of do we want to leave the european union? i agree with millions of people who voted leave in. some of them frankly ignored the question. it was about do i want to hit back at a political elite and a political establishment in this country that for years has treated me and my people and my community with disrespect, has treated us like some sort of embarrassing elderly relative, has invited us to the sunlit uplands of cosmopolitan liberalism where we didn't particularly want to go and regarded us as kind of nativist and bigoted if we didn't go there. and when you saw the cameron , the tory party saw the cameron, the tory party and the labour party under various leaders, all put in that case all, all kind of within that narrow strip of liberal centrism, and millions of people felt completely unrepresented. that was proof at large that people were they don't want that i >> -- >> and let's be clear. let's be

clear. i'm a person who voted to leave. i happen to agree with much of what you've just said, but that's not a reason not to vote. that's a reason to vote. thatis vote. that's a reason to vote. that is a reason to get involved in politics. i got involved in politics because i thought it all came from the chattering classes down here in the south east, and i wanted to fight some of that because i don't come from those classes, and i feel like my lot need as much representation as everybody else. and by a lot, my lot, i mean, people have to work for a living. but the point being, yeah, get up, get involved. yeah, yeah, i am now. but the point is, if you don't vote, you give those people power unchallenged, get out of your house and vote. that's that's, that's that's the system we have. and currently it's the least worst way of running a country. you know, i look, i would like people to vote. >> don't misunderstand me. i've always voted and i would always encourage other people to vote. but as i said at the top, you need to give people an incentive to vote. and i think millions of people just kind of feel if i go into the if i go into the polling booth and i put an x on

a bit of paper, let's be blunt, it's going to be two cheeks of the same backside. whoever, whoever gets in. now, i don't actually believe that myself. i think there is a there is a difference between the two parties, but not a radical difference in the way that they used to be. it just means it is a good thing. it just, it just when there's millions of people who don't feel represented, it just means two things. >> it just means one that most of us agree mostly on most things. we're heading in a general direction. and two, this is a safe country. it is many countries where if you didn't vote, you could die. something could happen radically in the country. this country has been run well for hundreds of years. and unless we unless we acknowledge that people will feel that voting is irrelevant, i think the country is being run well now. >> i think we are fast and developing. >> i tell you what, i believe that i tell you why. i believe that i tell you why. i believe that if you compare britain to almost any country in the world, any country in the world, we are doing very well and have and historically have done well as well. so the idea that we're some backwater, that we're led by some backwater, that we're led by donkeys, that the country destroyed simply isn't true. and if you do think we're

progressing or we're in decline, i think i think our our progression has slowed slightly, but hold on, i think we're in a sharp decline. >> i think most people feel so has the rest of the world and certainly the western world, the western world is its progression has slowed and we are part of that. >> we are a very big part of that, well, there you go. we've got to 6:20. and paul's not shout we tax the rich yet there's still time. there's still time after the break. because i'll come on to that. i want to ask you whether or not we're going to see, a mass exodus of the wealthy. if the labour party gets in, i am going to be encouraging you all, though, as the programme progresses, to register votes. if you've watched this programme before, you'll know that i am someone who has not, turned out inverted in the past. you know what? let's come together and let's change that, i will be bringing up that qr code as we progress, because you've got to you've got until 23, 59 to do it. but after the break, the rich, are they going to leave

not? hello there. i'm michelle dewberry. i'm with you till 7:00 tonight. alongside the conservative peer lord shaun bailey and the trade unionist and broadcaster paul embery. i'm and broadcaster paul embery. i'm a bit disorientated because he's normally in for a free pint on a friday, so it's a bit disorientating for me to have you in the, earlier on in the week. when i went to the break, i was saying, do you think that we're going to have a mass exodus of the wealthy? he shunted in my ear and said he hoped, sir, i'll come on to that topic in just a few minutes, phoebe says it's just tuning in from spain tonight. thank you. we appreciate that. lots of you appreciating the battle bus, mark says he loved the fridge shots . so did mark says he loved the fridge shots. so did i. you mark says he loved the fridge shots . so did i. you know, shots. so did i. you know, i think it's good to go behind the scenes and see what is going on, lots of people telling people to get out and vote. whoever you vote for, just get out and turn out to vote. if you're just tuned in, the deadline tonight is 23, 59, so pretty much just almost midnight tonight, i

confess you will know this if you're a regular viewer. i didn't for vote a very long time indeed.i didn't for vote a very long time indeed. i can't really explain why . i just think it didn't. it why. i just think it didn't. it didn't really feel like it would make a difference. but you know what? this time around, i'm going to do it. everybody. and i implore you to do it alongside me. you can register to vote by scanning the qr, qr code on the screen and it'll send you to the website that you need to sign up to do so , and by the way, i've to do so, and by the way, i've got to say it's one of my viewers. you've just, you're a bit of a naughty boy, phil, because you've just emailed a picture. you've just told me you volunteered, to hand out leaflets with a picture of where you were leafleting, and i've just googled the class name that you sent to me, and i got some rather unpleasant things come up on my google screen . i think you on my google screen. i think you were actually in canal class, but you'd edited out the c. thank you very much for that, so let's get into the next topic then, shall we? because apparently, if the polls are to be believed and we get a labour party majority, then some people are predicting that we're going

to see a mass exodus of the wealthy vie apparently, the number of millionaires leaving britain would double. of course, this stems from things like the vat on private schools and then the changes to the non—dom status. let's look at keir starmer speaking out. >> there are some tax rises. sid so we want to get rid of the non—dom status properly. that's where the super rich don't pay their tax in this country. we want to get rid of the private eqtu want to get rid of the private equity loophole, which again is used by those that are pretty wealthy to avoid paying the income side of tax. and we want a better windfall tax on oil and gas companies. but beyond that, sid, we are none of our plans require a tax rise because our focus is on growth . focus is on growth. >> so i said earlier on, it's about 6:26 now. and he still hasn't said about taxing the wealthy. i bet you've been itching to get that off your chest, haven't you? so do you reckon we're going to see an exodus of the so—called elite under the labour party? >> no. they always threaten to 90, >> no. they always threaten to go, but they never do, do they.

and we shouldn't give in to what is effectively blackmail. they. i've said it on the show before. it's not acceptable for rich people. in my view, to hold the country to ransom either. they believe in the democratic vote and they accept the government of the day and the policies that it introduces, or they don't. they're free to go, of course, but we should not indulge them , but we should not indulge them, and we should not be blackmailed by them. and governments will always attack trade unionists and say, oh, they're asking for 8, 9% on their wages. we can't give in to them . they're holding give in to them. they're holding the country to ransom. and you know , the tory press will be up know, the tory press will be up in arms and saying, this is terrible. these militants, you know, holding, holding a gun to our heads. why does that never work the same way? why is that attitude not the same ? well, attitude not the same? well, it's not when it's the rich money, when it's the rich who are saying, do you know what? if the government doesn't do what i want in terms of low tax rates and low regulation and low environmental standards and all the rest of it, we're going to up sticks and we're going to go

and we're going to we're going to take our plant and our machinery and our operations to an economy where we can make more money and where the government does what we want them to do. paul, ultimately, it's a threat to democracy when corporations i'm sorry, transnational sean's have got this much power. hold on. it undermines the ballot and we indulge them. >> hold on, hold on. >> hold on, hold on. >> you're not comparing like with like that's people's private money. no no people's private money. no no people's private money. >> and it's still a lot more productive and important work ipsis versus money that normal people are going to have to take out, going to have to raise through taxes. >> slightly different, but look, ihappen >> slightly different, but look, i happen to agree that people should pay proper taxes. so the non—dom thing, i don't think it's that big a deal. right. because it's a balance. and if britain's a good place to live, raise your family, run a business, they should and will pay- business, they should and will pay. i really do think that. and it's and the government just has to figure out what the level is. and there's an opportunity cost there. and i personally think, you know non—dom should pay a bit whatever. keep going. and when they don't like it, a couple leave and most will stay. so it's not that big a deal.

what's the real big deal is things like inheritance tax because that hits your ordinary british based, british born, unable to leave taxpayer. and that's who we should be caring about. and that's who labour a real danger to now. things like inheritance tax in this country are hideously high, one of the highest in any ocd country, which is out of order because you've already paid tax on it and this thing about, private schools, if it doesn't work out, you're going to have more children in the, in the, in, in state schools without the money to follow them because those people have just left and we won't raise extra taxes that, that stan was talking about. >> the bottom line, i've sympathy with you on that. you'll be surprised to hear me say, i am very surprised that the bottom, the bottom line is, as long as britain is a good place to raise your family and raise your business, we can charge taxes. >> we can do that. but we mustn't do it to the detriment of our of our economy. and i worry that keir starmer has so many people he has to now stand up. he's going to come for your money, not non—doms they can leave you, can't i think i had a bit of time on my hands today.

>> so i did a i did bit of time on my hands today. >>so|dida|dida bit of time on my hands today. >> so i did a i did a little bit of maths. i did go for a lie down afterwards, i will confess, but i was looking at some figures. right. so if you look at the year 22 to 23, the public spending per person in the uk was £12,549. right. so there or thereabouts £13,000 per person. and then i was working out what tax people pay on which different incomes. right so if you earn £30,000 a year, you're going to be paying about £5,000 there or thereabouts in income tax and national insurance. right. if you earn £125,000. so four times the earnings , you're four times the earnings, you're going to pay ten times the tax. you'll pay nearly £50,000 in tax. and i was looking the top 1% of earners pay 30% of all income tax. the top 10% of earners pay 60% of all income tax. so you've got a very small pool of people here subsidising a lot of the well, actually in the top 1. i think you've got

something like 300,000 people. so you really, really need to be quite careful. bearing in mind what i'm saying to you is if you've got a you probably spend of £12,000, it'll probably be a bit more now, someone on 30 grand is paying 5000. you need a lot of those high earners to be subsidising that public spending. >> there is. and i've said it before, michelle, there's hideous wealth and income inequality in this country. five the five richest families have more wealth than the poorest 20% of the population . now, i don't of the population. now, i don't accept that there isn't money. the problem is, as is the case in many capitalist societies, too often the money is concentrated and the power by association, association is concentrated. no different in a socialist. and actually when you look at our tax rates , our tax look at our tax rates, our tax rates in europe, their marginal tax rates are invariably higher than ours. and we keep banging on in this country about the tax burden. i don't believe in punitive levels of taxation. don't don't misunderstand. >> you have to achieve what you talk about. >> the we talk about the tax

burden actually historically by our standards it's a bit higher than normal. but compared to a lot of european countries, it's not. and if you look at some of those european countries and in terms of the investment in pubuc terms of the investment in public services and the, you know, the quality of those pubuc know, the quality of those public services and the cohesion of the society, some of them are frankly more developed than ours. if you want decent public services but passionate society, you've got to have a fair and progressive tax system. so the wider the gap between rich and poon wider the gap between rich and poor, the greater the inequalities in terms of people's income and people's wealth, the economic inequalities and actually the social inequalities as well, because what you end up with is an underclass of people, while the richest, you know, get ever ficher. the richest, you know, get ever richer . and, you know, the richer. and, you know, the trickle down theory it's called, isn't it? if we allow the rich to get richer, the people at the bottom will also get richer. actually there's a limit proven not to work. >> so let's let's be clear. in the in the state of this country, trickle down did work. there's a limit to it. i just be clear. there's absolutely limit.

but the size i tell you, our economy has grown because a number of rich people and companies we have in it, and we've spent progressively more on public services. hold on. if we if we haven't spent enough, if we haven't spent enough, there's a whole other argument. but you have to grow the size of the pie before you can spend that pie. that's just a fact. and when you talk about other countries doing better than us in europe with how they do taxes and stuff, are you comparing like with like we have a different population makeup, for instance. we have a very elderly population, so we have costs to other people. don't you know, we have many more people come from, from abroad and live and stay here than comparable nations in different countries in europe. so it's not a direct comparison. if i go back, i go back to something that michel said is important to understand that those very high earners do shoulder some of the burden, maybe they could shoulder more, but it's not right to speak about them as greedy rich people when they shoulder. >> i've just said that the top 1% of earners are paying 30% of the income tax. i mean, how much more when you start getting into decent sums of money, you get no

personal allowance , so you don't personal allowance, so you don't get a penny tax free, the amount that you can put into your pension with tax allowances and all the rest of it, that massively reduces you've got a 45% tax rate. again, you've got a period . i think it's between a period. i think it's between about 125 or whatever it is, between 100 125 or whatever. you have an effective tax rate of about 60% for a portion of that money. i mean, how much more should people be shouldering? and don't forget of course there's high earners. what they take out of the state will be minimal compared to other people. they will privately educate their children. they will use private health. so they're not really drawing down from the states. >> let me be clear. i'm somewhere between you and paul. i do think those high earners can, can, can sustain a little bit more. but you can't just fleece them because then they 90, fleece them because then they go, tell me how how much more just just just just a smidgen. >> just a smidgen. tell me just a smidgen. >> just let me tell you where i personally i tell you where you do it, right? you do on things like vat rich people buy lots of stuff so they pay vat. poor people buy less stuff, pay less vat. you don't put vat on people

on things that people need baby food. choose those kind of things. travel but ferrari's some vat please and you get the money back. >> financial services for some reason has a vat exemption which i find impossible. >> but what you're forgetting is the amount of tax those services pay the amount of tax those services pay and the amount of high level salaries they pay who then pay tax. so you have to be careful about punishing. >> still no industries, still no justification really. i think for financial services saying it should be vat exempt because more often than not those services are used by the richer people , the wealthier sectors of people, the wealthier sectors of society, you know, but that's a way of getting money out of them. and i just don't see why , them. and i just don't see why, especially i mean, we go back to the debate about private schools if you're charging vat on lots of other things, including private schools , for example, it private schools, for example, it seems to me to be entirely reasonable to say that financial services should fall into but ukip as well, and would bring in an awful i just i just money. >> i just challenge you slightly. those financial services is one of the linchpins of our economy, and it is in a world competitive environment .

world competitive environment. you hobble that your nhs suffers, your police suffers. so you need to be very careful about the changes you make there. >> actually, i think the fact that we've invested so much faith in financial services and ignored and neglected the real economy over so many years, our manufacturing sector, our industrial base , because we are industrial base, because we are more concerned about the demands of financial services . there's of financial services. there's been a large part of the problems we've suffered, not the not the solution. we could do more in real business. >> i do accept that. >> i do accept that. >> what do you think to it at home? because you will have very divided opinions. what i would like to see is bearing in mind how much of the wealthy, the tax, the wealthy are paying, i would like the conversation of how actually how do we get more wealthy people in this country to be contributing, even more tax, your thoughts on all of that? let's talk drink driving after the break. is it time to revise our limits down or see you in two.

>> nygren. hi there. >> nygren. hi there. >> i'm michelle dewberry keeping you company until 7:00 tonight. shaun bailey and paul mbappe remain alongside me. dave says with paul's dark attitude about our country, it's no wonder that we are going down hill. tony says, can you tell paul that being wealthy doesn't make you a bad person and it is not a crime, he says. however, being jealous is one of the most unattractive traits of human behaviour. they go, tony, i told him, i can tell you now though, there'll be lots of other people that actually completely agree with paul and think that actually the wealthy should be paying actually the wealthy should be paying even more. so, feel free to get in touch and let me know all of your thoughts. but i want to talk to you about drink driving. did you know that the limit is one of the highest, in this country across the rest of europe? now, the bma have called for our drink drive limit to be reduced to the equivalent of a small glass of wine or beer. i've got to confess, i do get confused about what the drink drive limit is. so if i'm going

to have a wine, are you allowed to? is it a medium one? can you have a large one? so then i think it's always better to kind of be on the safe side. really and just probably not have anything. i think there's a lot of confusion about the limits. is it better to just scrap it and just say, you can't drink anything at all? >> i have to confess, i don't drink, so i haven't got a dog in this fight. but i'd have to say if there's a level of confusion. of course, is a limit. the same for you and another woman or another man. it's not the same because your body reacts differently. it's probably just safer to scrap it. most people i know, if they're going to drink, they simply will not drive. so for them, it's not even a choice. they think, i'm going to have a drink, i'll leave the car at home or i'll get my partner to drive, so it's not a big deal to drive, so it's not a big deal. i probably haven't thought about this. if our level of road accidents is high, then they should just scrap it all together. no drinking and driving together. it would be simpler to administer. >> so the limit at the moment is 80, milligram of alcohol per 100 mils of blood and they want it reduced to, 50mg of alcohol per

100 mils of blood. but i mean, this is why i think it's quite confusing because it's kind of you've got wines that are different strengths, you've got beers that are different strengths. and like what you're saying, then everything affects people differently. and then i always think as well, if you've not eaten and then you have a bit of wine on an empty stomach, that seems to go a little bit differently. so what do you reckon? get rid of it all, scrap it. >> i think the best thing is just not to drink. if you're going to be, if you know you're going to be, if you know you're going to be driving, that seems to be the most sensible thing. >> but what should we do with the law? because the bma, the bma, they're going to lobby, i would support the reduction. >> i think it's a no brainer. we haven't we haven't reduced the limit. i think i'm correct in saying since 1967 and actually most if not all european countries have a lower limit than us, and i was checking the figures, i think last year or perhaps a year before there were 220 deaths on the road caused by dnnk 220 deaths on the road caused by drink drivers. now that suggests to me that it's still an issue , to me that it's still an issue, and i think, i mean, i'm a firefighter . i've been, in my firefighter. i've been, in my career, i've been to road

traffic collisions where people have been injured as a result of dnnk have been injured as a result of drink drivers. i've seen the effect that that can have, and when you see it, you understand the importance of it because it does impair people's, people's reflexes, people's concentration . and i really don't think there's, there's any excuse in this day and age for people, people having a drink, even getting what they think might be near to the limit. and can i ask a question? >> you see, as a firefighter, have you been to any any road accidents that have officially been designated by the use of drugs? so marijuana , cocaine or drugs? so marijuana, cocaine or whatever, is that a thing? does that happen? yeah absolutely. >> because, you know, if people if people have got particular drugs in their system and they're tested afterwards , then, they're tested afterwards, then, you know, people can be can be convicted for driving under the influence of drugs as much as they can be convicted of driving under the influence of drink, so, so yeah, i mean , it seems to so, so yeah, i mean, it seems to me, as i say, it seems to me a

no brainer that with that number of deaths per year. >> well, yeah, 200 a year die demonstration driving on families . families. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> and 1600 people seriously injured a year, apparently related to drink driving. but people at home, paul, they're really divided because steve says here we go. yet another attack on motorists, banging on now about reducing the alcohol limit, that's what he's saying. he was saying it's just perhaps if you're just on or just below the legal limit, he thinks it's fine, but david says absolutely. the drink drive limit should be complete . zero, john says he's complete. zero, john says he's in scotland, and apparently they've changed it there and they've changed it there and they've seen no difference s since they've dropped it. that's what he says , he's also said what he says, he's also said that actually the problem is that actually the problem is that the police don't seem to respond quickly enough when anyone does report, drink driving. someone who works with me today told me a story about. she went to a wedding recently, and when they were letting the guests leave, they were breathalyser ing the guests. i

mean, what do you think to that? >> is that a little for their own good, though, isn't it? so i think the stronger is that a little bit of who's doing that? who's that vicar. >> oh, the hotel staff. i mean, i wasn't at this wedding. it's a story that she told me. it's family. >> you look, look, look. >> you look, look, look. >> the strongest argument, actually, michel, is yours. it's hard to decide if you're over or near or around the limit. don't take the chance. yeah so? so don't take the chance. so that's probably the strongest reason to do it. >> there you go. what do you think to that? i can tell you there's a lot of people saying just get the limit to absolutely zero after the break. i want to talk to you about joe biden. is he losing his marbles or are we the public, being manipulated by people editing videos to present that image? your thoughts?

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. alongside me, paul, embry and shaun bailey remain. phoebe says

you've just been talking about taxing the rich. please, can you ask someone on your panel who are the rich? very quickly, because i want to talk about very quickly people like michelle dewberry. >> shut up. phoebe >> shut up. phoebe >> like, you know, the top 1, i think that those earnings are about £180,000 when i last looked, it might be slightly more in this day and age, but actually, so many people actually, so many people actually , the rich is just actually, the rich is just someone that earns a little bit more than them. you tell me what you regard as the rich. i'm going to give him a kick, look. let's talk joe biden. do you think he's losing his marbles? because apparently we're just being manipulated by people editing video. let's look at some of the most recent footage then, shall we? i mean, look, you will have seen some of these clips. i'll describe it if you're listening on the radio, you've got some kind of performance. everyone's jigging around and joe biden , without around and joe biden, without being too cruel, looks very confused . used, and i think i'm confused. used, and i think i'm putting that quite gently there, look, you've got this one at the

d—day, service, and he seems to be looking for a chair to sit on. that's despite the fact that everyone is standing on the stage and there is not a chair. you've got this one where you've got joe biden and then you've got joe biden and then you've got obama. he looks a little bit like you lost kind of granddad, really. and then obama takes him by the hand and leads him off the stage . in a second, i'm the stage. in a second, i'm going to show you a clip of what the press secretary actually says in response to a couple of those clips , but here you go those clips, but here you go again. you've got biden. i mean, i don't really know where he's looking. it seems to be the complete different direction to every body else, and he's just kind of wandering off. what do you think's going on here, paul? >> i think some of the clips have been manipulated, actually, when you see them in their full context, they're not quite as they have been presented by biden's opponents. but look at the same time, he is infirm and he is frail and he is doddery. let's be blunt about it. and i

think he does have memory issues and so, so all of those things can be true. his opponents can be, you know, quite machiavellian about what they're doing. and are. but at the same time, i don't think he's fit to sustain another five years of the presidency. that's sad, but i think it's a physical reality for him. >> well, the press secretary for the white house she has been speaking out. let's look, obama's office put out a statement and he said this did not happen in the sense of what people were saying, saying they were seeing right or reported, that they were seeing. let's not forget, president president biden have a relationship. they are friends. they're like family to each other. and i think that's what you saw . that's what you saw. >> i don't doubt that, like friends and family. but that's kind of the point. it's getting to the stage, isn't he? where he is like the older kind of member of the family, and you're having to shepherd him along? there's nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with ageing. but then there is a question about

whether or not that's the most suitable person for that office. >> i think there's three things to answer video is are not being doctored. he has been at events, people at events have reported that we see his wife regularly come to his rescue. there does seem to be something wrong. the only reason this is important is because this is a man who has the well—being of 320 million americans, and arguably 7 billion people, you know, sort of at his fingertips and his ability to recall to, to, to, to parlay with people is very important . he parlay with people is very important. he could say something and crash a market, say something and cause international incident. so i do think he's how firm he is or in firm he is, is a very important thing. and if people are making false accusations against him, his supporters and the white house could easily refute that with the actual evidence. and unless they do that , this unless they do that, this doesn't feel like this feels like the white house making an excuse. >> excuse. >> and surely it's for you would think it's for his family and friends, his loved ones, his political allies , to say to him, political allies, to say to him, look, joe, your time is probably up because, i mean, it's

arguably the most demanding job in the world anyway. yeah, even for a young, fit man, and i think it would have been quite a good time after one term for him to have bowed out fairly gracefully, instead of going through the next five years, possibly. which i think then is just you're just going to then see a stream of what we've just watched and it's going to undermine his presidency. >> there's two ways to look at it. so he's he's he's political friends around him, could be thinking if he stays , this is thinking if he stays, this is going to be a problem for us. we're going to be they might be speaking to him in the background, but then there might be another group of friends who are saying him being in ferm effectively leaves us in charge, and we like it that way. so it'd be interesting to see how the democrats deal with him. >> i think that's a very insightful point. i think that could well be their thinking. >> i think it's just very uncomfortable to watch. it just makes me feel quite uncomfortable. graeme says. please what confused logic stopping these drink driving? limited basically means that changing the limits of zero would make no difference on

those people that are already breaking the law. i just want to get that qr code up again. the cut off is just before midnight tonight. come on guys , let's tonight. come on guys, let's come together and register to vote. i'm going to do it this yeah vote. i'm going to do it this year. i confess i have not in the past , but year. i confess i have not in the past, but you know year. i confess i have not in the past , but you know what? we the past, but you know what? we can't really complain about stuff if we don't get involved, can we, so i'm going to be doing that , i can we, so i'm going to be doing that, i recommend that all of you make sure that you are registered to vote as well. however you vote, it's up to you, isn't it? quite frankly, lots of you have enjoyed the conversation tonight, ella. she says that you're rich if you have £2,000 a week after bills disposable income. very precise, i like that. thanks, gents. thank you. at home, don't go anywhere. camilla is up next. nanites >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar , the sponsors of weather solar, the sponsors of weather on gb news. >> good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather update. it's staying fairly dry and fine as we head into wednesday. sunny spells for many of us. another dry day on the cards. however,

across the far northwest there are weather fronts approaching, but for many of us, we've got high pressure dominating across the uk and that's bringing all that dry and fine weather through this evening. though there's a risk of some heavy showers still continuing for some northern areas of england. but elsewhere a dry and clear night to come for many of us, we will see the clearest skies across the far northwest of scotland, northern ireland two, where temperatures could dip down into the low single figures. but for most of us to start the day, we'll be at around 10 or 11 degrees, a little bit fresher tomorrow morning than this morning, but still plenty of sunshine around . still plenty of sunshine around. let's take a closer look at how things look first thing tomorrow. and actually where it's been quite cloudy across the far north of scotland lately. it's going to be a much brighter start tomorrow, despite the chillier feel, and that sunshine will be spread quite widely across the uk into northern ireland, northern areas of england, north wales. there'll be some cloud around here and there, but generally wednesday is going to be a fairly fine day and actually onshore breeze across the far

southeast could bring a slightly fresher feel here. but for most of us, plenty of sunshine to come through tomorrow. sunny spells into the afternoon cloud will bubble up a little bit. that may allow the odd shower to break out here and there. perhaps across the southwest, but i think you'll be pretty unlucky to get caught out in a shower. however, a different story for the far northwest of scotland , into the western isles scotland, into the western isles and the highlands, where a weather front is approaching now in the sunshine. highs of around 23 degrees to come in the southeast, but widely into the high teens. for many of us, thursday is looking like another dry and bright day for the bulk of the uk temperatures climbing towards 24, possibly 25 degrees on thursday. but weather fronts never too far away from the far northwest, which means it will be a little bit cloudier with a risk of rain here. but actually the further south and east you are, the more likely you are to see more in the way of sunshine and temperatures climbing by by. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers sponsors of weather

gb news. >> good evening and welcome to vote 2024. the people decide with me. camilla tominey coming up on tonight's show, we're going to be covering nigel farage. his criticism of a vetting company it says hasn't done his job on reform candidates because it's in bed with the tories. we're also going to be discussing whether bofis going to be discussing whether boris johnson should return to the campaign trail, a help or a hindrance to rishi sunak. and we've got an exclusive gb news documentary about left wing extremism . extremism. we'll also debate whether the dnnk we'll also debate whether the drink drive limit is right. do you think it should come down? don't forget to get in touch by

visiting gbnews.com/yoursay. first, though