these days. we're still hanging on. i can tell you what. never a dull moment. you've got a close protection officer now, that's been working as part of the prime minister's team. arrested allegations there about placing bets on the date of the general election. goodness gracious me. also, george galloway , he has also, george galloway, he has unveiled his manifesto today. he reckons that if keir starmer becomes prime minister, we will becomes prime minister, we will be at war within six months. do you believe that or not.7 also the snp manifesto launched today. within it they call for the two child cap that affects some benefits to be scrapped should it be or not. and speaking of children, do you think it's right that primary schools are involved in pride month? strong feelings on that one. i can tell you also if you have caught a train recently,

there's a very good chance that your face has been scanned to detect your emotions, record your age and more. the age of ai and big data is well and truly upon us, and people are making a fortune. but are we exercising enough controls here or not? and nearly 1000 people crossed the channelin nearly 1000 people crossed the channel in dinghies yesterday . channel in dinghies yesterday. we all know by now control has been well and truly lost . so been well and truly lost. so simple question has anyone anywhere got a solution? all of that and more. but first the headunes. headlines. >> michelle, thank you and good evening to you. well, some breaking news this hour as you've been hearing a police constable working as part of the prime minister's close protection team has been arrested on suspicion of misconduct in public office. the metropolitan police have said it's related to an investigation

into alleged bets concerning the timing of the general election. this is a developing story, that news just coming to us within the last 15 minutes or so, we'll bnng the last 15 minutes or so, we'll bring you more detail on it as we get it. meanwhile, staying with politics, a new poll is forecasting the worst election defeat for the conservative party in its nearly 200 year history. yougov's latest study projects 425 seats for labour, which 125 more than they won in 2019. that would leave the conservatives with just 108 and the lib dems on 6720 seats going to the snp in this prediction, and five seats for reform uk, they only knees away from the election. the jury in the trial of constance marten and mark gordon has failed to reach verdicts on charges related to the death of their newborn baby. the little girl, victoria, was found dead on an allotment near brighton last year. they were arrested later following a high

profile police manhunt. prosecutors will now determine whether or not to seek a retrial . a former fujitsu boss has denied any responsibility for the horizon scandal because , he the horizon scandal because, he says he was never made aware of problems with the software . problems with the software. richard christo told the inquiry he felt aggrieved after initially believing the horizon system was one of the company's major successes. he was chief executive of the company between 2000 and 2004, and says he always regarded the post office as a satisfied customer. more than 700 subpostmasters were prosecuted by the post office, and handed criminal convictions between 1999 and 2015. after four fujitsu's faulty system made it look like money was missing from their branches . the missing from their branches. the economy now, and for the first time in nearly three years, inflation has fallen to the bank of england's 2% target. that's boosted hopes of an interest

rate cut in the coming months. most analysts were forecasting the drop down from 2.3% in april. the chancellor, jeremy hunt, says it's great news but claims that inflation could rise again if labour wins the election . election. >> a year and a half ago we had higher inflation than nearly any other major economy. today it is lower and that shows the difficult decisions we've taken have paid off. that would not have paid off. that would not have happened under labour. they refused to condemn the public sector pay strikes that would have meant higher inflation for longer. instead we have lower inflation, taxes starting to come down and hopefully now mortgages starting to come down. it will be a terrible shame if we turn the clock back and put up taxes for every family with savings , which is what it now savings, which is what it now emerges. keir starmer plans to do the chancellor, jeremy hunt, there, but labour's shadow chancellor rachel reeves, is warning the cost of living crisis isn't over, she says, and pnces crisis isn't over, she says, and prices are still going up .

prices are still going up. >> price rises have been very severe in the last few years. the cost of the weekly food shop up almost 30% since the last general election . people looking general election. people looking to remortgage this year paying more than £200 a month more on their mortgage because of the concern . mini budget less than concern. mini budget less than two years ago that crashed the economy and sent mortgage rates soaring. so the conservatives might want to say everything is okay. but i know for many people right across our country, they're still struggling . they're still struggling. >> a baby girl has been killed by a pet dog in coventry. that's according to west midlands police. the seven month old was rushed to hospital after she was bitten on her head during the attack, which happened on sunday, but she died shortly afterwards from her injuries . afterwards from her injuries. according to police, the dog was not classified as a dangerous breed but has since been humanely destroyed and now the scottish national party is promising another independence referendum for the country to

fight for an end to austerity and, it says, rejoin the european union. launching their manifesto, the leader, john swinney, says he also wants to see an end to the two child benefit cap. scottish labour criticised the first minister, saying he's woefully out of touch. saying he's woefully out of touch . and elsewhere george touch. and elsewhere george galloway pitched himself as the antidote to both labour and reform uk as he launched his workers party manifesto. he says he wants a referendum on the transition to net zero and promise to scrap ulez. transition to net zero and promise to scrap ulez . prince promise to scrap ulez. prince william joined the queen in a royal procession on day two of royal ascot today . her majesty royal ascot today. her majesty led the way in berkshire with the duke and duchess of edinburgh as well. they're celebrating their 25th wedding anniversary today and they were there in the bright ascot sunshine, along with the rest of the royal family. that's the news for the latest stories do sign up to gb news alerts. scan the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. common herts . okay.

to gb news. common herts. okay. >> thank you very much for that. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm with you till 7:00 tonight alongside me, my panel, i've got the columnist for the mail on sunday, peter hitchens, and the co—founder of novara media, aaron bastani. good evening, gentlemen. you're very welcome tonight , as gentlemen. you're very welcome tonight, as are each and every one of you at home. you know the drill. you can get in touch with me all the usual ways. you can email gb views at gbnews.com. you can go to the website. i've not yet said hello to you, but i shall in a second, i promise. gbnews.com/yoursay or of course you can go to twitter or x and reach me there. look, we've got what, 15 days? i think it is now till the general election. i am definitely counting them down. hurry up please. let's catch up, shall we? with what we've missed today on the campaign trail, let's cross live to this time. the labour battle bus are gb news political correspondent olivia utley bring us up to speed with all the latest olivier . olivier. >> hello. yes, i've just got up

off the labour battle bus in yorkshire. keir starmer is under a lot of pressure today about raising taxes. he has said time and again that he will not be raising the three main taxes for working people i.e. income tax, national insurance or vat. but he has been very careful not to rule out rises to other taxes, andifs rule out rises to other taxes, and it's now widely predicted that labour will raise taxes on capital gains, possibly council tax two and inheritance tax when theyif tax two and inheritance tax when they if and when they come into power. and i say when because two devastating polls for the conservatives have just dropped this evening. that's the savanta poll and the mrp. yougov poll. now, both of them suggest that the tories will be almost wiped out. the savanta poll, which is the splash on the daily telegraph, suggests that the tories could could go down to just 56 seats, with keir starmers labour party on a 382 seat majority . it could, in seat majority. it could, in fact, mean that the lib dems

become the official opposition. the lib dems on that poll are on 50 seats, with the conservatives on just 56. so just a handful of seats would need to change hands sort of margin of error territory for the conservatives to be to go down into third place and the lib dems to leapfrog them. the other huge poll that's come out today is that mrp poll for yougov that puts labour on a 202 seat majority with over 400 seats, 425 seats. that's more than labour won under tony blair in 1997 and would in fact be the second biggest majority in a general election since the second world war. so this is really, really devastating stuff for the conservatives this evening. they were smiling about inflation this morning. they're not smiling any more. >> oh , i can imagine that. they >> oh, i can imagine that. they are not olivia, thank you very much. it looks beautiful where you are and you can absolutely tell it is yorkshire, god's finest county. that's what i've

got to say. i mean, goodness gracious me, there is so much to unpack tonight. where do we even start ? we've got the george start? we've got the george galloway workers party that has been announced their manifesto. i'll come on to some of the things that george galloway said in just a second. but those polls that we've just been mentioning there, it's terrible news for the tories. peter. >> well, i suppose it is if you believe opinion polls are necessarily right. i've been saying from the beginning of this election that people are allowing themselves to be manipulated by the polls into, into holding the opinion that the election is finished before it started. it may be so . i it started. it may be so. i would point out that in on exactly this day, june the 19th, 1970, a conservative government was just settling into downing street, having beaten harold wilson's labour government in an election which everybody said that labour would win. the night before that election, all three major opinion polls gave labour a majority of about 75 and they lost the election. polls can be wrong. i would point out that these days hardly anybody answers the front door. ask

anybody who's done any canvassing during this election. people don't come to the front doon people don't come to the front door, nor do they answer the telephone. i'm archaic. i still use the telephone to ring people up and expect an answer. this is very rare. people don't do it. how are the polls collecting their information? >> that's a very good point. >> that's a very good point. >> the other thing is that the raw work of polls, you know, i've done a lot of work on this dunng i've done a lot of work on this during before the 2010 election, the papers were all saying, oh , the papers were all saying, oh, david cameron was going to walk in and be prime minister. the bbc was poised for his for his ride to, to downing street on the night of the election. he didn't win because it was wrong. but and if you looked at the raw figures, which i did on that occasion, it was plainly wrong. and i just cautioned people , and i just cautioned people, don't be a sheep. if you if you don't, if you if you if you have anidea don't, if you if you if you have an idea of which way you want to vote, don't allow yourself to be corralled into voting by what you think everybody else is doing. if it turns out that everybody else isn't doing it, you're going to look very silly indeed, don't you? >> are you going to hit that from peter hitchens? what do you

think to that? do you agree with what he's saying or not? aaron, your thoughts? >> well, in india, where of course, they've just recently had an election. yeah. you don't have polls during the election campaign and i see the merits of that, because what we should be discussing is the politics and the individuals. is keir starmer prepared to be the prime minister? is ed davey going to be a sufficiently adequate leader of the opposition? et cetera. et cetera, etc. that should be at the centre of the debate during this campaign . but debate during this campaign. but of course, we have this plethora of course, we have this plethora of polls coming out seemingly every day, and they become the conversation instead. i think we could do with having fewer polls. that said, i think the big story here is clearly that a good result for the conservatives, a good result would look like 1997, where, of course, labour ended up with a majority of something like 156. peter can correct me if that's wrong, i can't remember, but something like that. >> i was going to mention 97 though, because it reminds me very strongly of that in two ways. one, the assumption throughout the election that labour were going to win and the

general trivial minded nature of the campaign, almost nothing of any seriousness was discussed dunng any seriousness was discussed during the 97 campaign at all. it was it was all superficial froth , but it was probably the froth, but it was probably the most significant election since 1945. and we have again an election of enormous importance, in which a party of immensely powerful dogmatic ideology, led by an strongly ideological prime minister, is about to come to office. if the polls are right and there is almost no discussion of the nature of the government, which which he will introduce at all. just trivia. and it's fascinating . i have to and it's fascinating. i have to say, nick ferrari deserves a huge medal for yesterday, asking keir starmer the question which everybody who interviewed him should have asked him before. what do you mean by working people now? this is a huge development here. we actually have at last keir starmer beginning to show that, in fact, he's planning to whack the middle classes with an enormous amount of tax. but he's only begun to say so now. and it's

not it's not catching on. >> can i just tell people what happenedin >> can i just tell people what happened in that interview in case people didn't see it? so keir starmer was essentially asked, because obviously he's saying that he's not going to raise taxes on working people. and he was asked, well, what do you define as working people? long story short , he basically long story short, he basically said, people that work for a living. yeah, fine. whatever but then he went on to say, people that essentially can't write a check out if something goes wrong. so essentially people that have no savings whatsoever that have no savings whatsoever thatis that have no savings whatsoever that is my understanding of what he's going for, the people with savings. >> and this because that's where there's an awful lot of money which the government can plunder . and that's what he will do. and i think we've been told this now, you'd think, wouldn't you, that the middle classes of england warned so clearly that an incoming government was going to plunder their savings? was they actually perhaps it's not such a good idea to vote labour or to vote for the reform party, which means voting labour. that we might not do that, but no. have you been watching this extraordinary series on television in the fall about the woman who who was who? her husband tried to murder her in a

parachute jump ? i have not, no. parachute jump? i have not, no. it's fascinating to watch. my mother in law loves me. the key thing about it is that the victim of this extraordinary crime eventually ended up giving very feeble evidence against the man who tried to kill her, because she couldn't bring herself to believe that her own husband had been trying to kill her. it's amazing what people are able to suppress in their minds if they want to, and people are suppressing in their minds at the moment because of this desire to punish the tories. the truth about this election, which is that we face an enormously radical labour government, which everybody who helps to get it in, who has any savings, will regret. like anything , for years and years to anything, for years and years to come. and once you've got it, i promise you you won't be able to get rid of it. when they move in, they come to stay. >> but surely people wouldn't be or shouldn't be surprised by that. i don't really see why this is a revelation that people are saying that labour is going to tax success or tax aspiration , because essentially that is what the labour party is known for. >> certainly in my mind there's a few ways of looking at it, isn't there? i suppose one

counterargument is we're already taxed to the hilt, and we get very little for it if we're going to be taxed even more and we get something in return. okay, so be it. but what do you think? >> well, i think do you think they're suddenly going to get better at spending it once they've got more of it? >> well i suppose labour can say we've got a benchmark. in 2010 crime was lower, the nhs was better, etc. so they can say that, they can say that, peter, they can say that quite reasonably, only the gullible say that quite reasonably and the electorate often thinks in those terms, don't they? for better or worse, they think of the last labour government, and l, the last labour government, and i, i, i think that's quite a reasonable one on things like, for instance, capital gains tax, i think only three, three people in every hundred have paid that since 2010. what worries people more is things like potential increases to inheritance tax, moving that around, the idea of capital gains being imposed on a first property, which of course would mean everybody having to pay would mean everybody having to pay for that . that worries pay for that. that worries people. but so far labour are saying we won't do that. i do think they'll increase capital gains tax, which doesn't impact

that many people . and i do think that many people. and i do think if they get a big majority, although they've said they won't, i think they'll reorganise council tax. they will because it's just something that they want to do and you need a massive majority to get away with it. >> they will weaponize council tax. it's a fantastic tool in their hands if they want to, to go after the people who they don't think will ever vote for them again. >> but let me pick you up on something you just said, because at the start of this programme, you were saying to everyone, oh, just ignore the polls. basically, don't be a sheep, just vote the way that you're saying it, your heart desires basically. and then in the next breath, two minutes ago, you then said, you know, a vote for reform is a vote for the labour party. so people will hear that and they'll be shouting at their screen going, no, actually, a vote for reform is a vote for reform. >> well, no, that's because they don't understand the british electoral system. well, i mean, it's like in that case they should really consider whether they're fit to vote. it's like getting into a car without knowing how to drive. if you vote for reform in a two party system in this election, you will be voting labour. that is the effect of that is the effect

which your vote will have. it's perfectly simple and straightforward and it's beyond doubt. so if you want a labour government vote reform, if you don't want a labour government, don't want a labour government, don't do that. the only the only way to stop a labour government is to vote against it. in any constituency where you are, where you work out, it's not very difficult. which is the party most likely to beat laboun party most likely to beat labour. and then you vote for them. you don't have to vote for anybody, but it's just extraordinary how how so many people have deluded themselves in like, victims of crime into the belief that they have nothing to fear. there's an enormous amount of fear. keir starmer is the most powerfully ideological person to be within range of downing street in practically in my lifetime. >> what fear? sajudis pol. >> what fear? sajudis pol. >> i'm curious , why isn't peter >> i'm curious, why isn't peter on the reform train? because many of the i don't like them, think. >> i think they're mistaken, but do you like the conservative party though? >> no, i don't, i think many of the critiques that you have of the critiques that you have of the conservative party people that vote reform would agree with it would be no gain to me to have to, to, to support a party to have to, to, to support a party led by a man who believes

in the decriminalisation of marijuana. >> nigel farage is not a conservative, is rishi sunak. no, but but he doesn't he doesn't actually come out and said publicly he thinks marijuana should be should be legalised. and i what we're being asked here is not is not which one to have nigel farage could not nigel farage talks about what is it 2029? he knows perfectly well that he's got absolutely no chance of getting anywhere near office, and probably very little chance of becoming a member of parliament in this election, because he understands the electoral system better than most people. he it's not you can't say, right, well, i won't have rishi sunak, i'll have nigel farage, you'll have you'll have if you don't have rishi sunak , you'll have keir rishi sunak, you'll have keir starmer. and that is what you will have . and there isn't, will have. and there isn't, there isn't any way out of it. and you might believe that in five years time, after five years of keir starmer, the country will suddenly come to its senses and say, right, we'll vote for nigel farage instead. but by that time, 16 year olds will be voting. and also, by my guess, almost certainly eu citizens living in britain will be voting. so your chances of

getting a majority for reform in 2029 are pretty slender. these people are not going to give up. >> well, there you go. what do you think to it? do you even know the way you are going to vote when you hear things like that? does it change your mind or not? after the break, i'll stick with politics because george galloway, he launched his manifesto today and basically said that if keir starmer is elected essentially within six months, we, the uk will be at war. your thoughts?

hello, everybody. i'm michelle dewberry. this is dewbs & co dewberry. this is dewbs& co we're with you till seven. i've got peter hitchens and aaron bastani remaining alongside me. something that peter was just saying before the break has really got you guys in contact with me , peter was basically with me, peter was basically saying, if you vote reform,

essentially you're voting laboun do essentially you're voting labour. do you agree with that? because i can tell you now, the audience is really split, some of them. no offence, peter, saying you don't know what you're talking about. other people saying he absolutely does know what he's talking about. give him a medal. but what do you think? first of all, aaron? >> oh well, i disagree. i think people should vote for the party that they like. peter's point is that they like. peter's point is that we have first past the post and sadly it's not optimised for that kind of, way of doing things. but if i was on the right, what way of doing things, voting with your heart, you can't do that. sadly, with first past the post because it's a two party system. what i would say though is if i was on the right. i don't agree with him, but i see where he's coming from. if i was on the right, i would say that the right in this country, the conservative quote unquote movement, needs a fundamental recomposition. it can only do that from opposition and actually we're being driven in a really strange direction. we're all over the place, we're incoherent, we don't make sense, and we need a period opposition to work things out and actually reforms here to shake that up, to challenge some of our assumptions. i think actually the green party on the left does

something quite similar. and i think in a way that's that's useful in politics and public life. i think it allows the system to be renewed and, and make sense for ordinary people out there. so i somewhat disagree with peter. rare occasion i know what is this penod occasion i know what is this period of opposition of which you speak actually turned into permanent opposition , from which permanent opposition, from which you can never escape. you can never escape. >> you can never escape. >> this is going to be if these polls are correct, and if lots and lots of tory voters vote for nigel farage. this is going to be such a colossal defeat for the conservatives if the polls were right, and that is very likely that ed davey will be the official leader of the opposition , the first liberal opposition, the first liberal leader of the opposition since 1906. they won't even be the second party from that position of defeat . how do you think of defeat. how do you think they're going to come back? even if nigel farage can i respond to that? but he's come. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> i would say to you, peter, look at clacton, which farage is polling ahead there. we don't know what's going to happen. of course polls are polls let you say, but it looks like he could win in 2019, clacton voted 72% for the conservatives. they could be about to lose it. it was the fifth safest tory seat.

i think voters now in this country, with each election, become less and less loyal by default to a political party, and they care more about the individuals, the policies, the general vibe . so i would say, general vibe. so i would say, actually, yes, labour might have actually, yes, labour might have a majority of 200 after this election on july the 4th, but they shouldn't take that for granted because voters now are, to use a word, promiscuous. and that vote would be quite soft. so i don't think that means they govern forever. actually, i disagree with you. there >> they're not they're not just going to leave it at that. as i said, it's in the manifesto votes at 16. it isn't in the manifesto, but it will, i think almost certainly happen votes for eu citizens living in this country and the constitutional reforms which they plan will make it even if somebody else gets in, it will make it almost impossible for them to undo all the things that starmer has done in the previous five years. at the constitutional changes which are completely unexamined. in gordon brown's plan, would would pretty much rip the guts out of, out of, out of parliamentary sovereignty and transfer so much power elsewhere that unscrambling keir starmer was

nasty. omelette would be beyond the power of almost any government in future. it's irreversible. this government, if you get it, you shouldn't fool around thinking, oh well, we can give them five years and then come back . they're not then come back. they're not going to be like that, just because people have been mentioning, clacton here, i do need to point out that, of course, there are other candidates standing. are you ready? sit down. everyone they are as follows. varne. anna sewell. nepal from the labour party. giles watling from the tory party. matthew bensalem from the lib dems. nigel farage from the lib dems. nigel farage from reform uk , natasha osborne from reform uk, natasha osborne from reform uk, natasha osborne from the green party. craig jamieson from the climate party. tony mac, who is an independent. tassos, papanastasiou from the heritage party and andrew pemberton from ukip. janet says peter, you are wrong. if we want change then we will vote reform. don't patronise the electorate, she says . i understand the she says. i understand the election system, as do many, but if you carry on voting for the establishment, you will never, ever get any change, roger says, can you get change?

>> you'll get change, but it won't be the sort of change you want. you wait till you see what a starmer government's like. then you'll know what change is. but it's not going to be the sort you're asking for, roger says, all reform uk voters are deluded , glenn says, giver of deluded, glenn says, giver of a hitchens. i understand the first past the post system. it is absolutely rigged to the establishment parties. but he is going to vote reform because he says essentially they are the only centre right party. >> if he if he thinks it's figged >> if he if he thinks it's rigged and he thinks it's then, then why does he think it makes sense? if he thinks it's rigged against him, why does he think it makes sense to vote in the way it's rigged? >> because maybe people just want to look in the mirror. at the end of the day, however, they vote and maybe just want to look in the mirror and go, do you know what? i voted for? the person or the party that i connect with the most? the outcome will be the outcome. but in all good conscience, i did what i felt right. >> we'll never be heard of again. and voting is a practical act with a measurable outcome.

it is not an emotional spasm, nor is it a sacrament. it is something you do intending to get a result. do you vote? if you. if you want a result, then do you vote me? yeah, i'm voting for years now. i live in a safe labour seat, but there's no point in my voting and i'm very practical about voting. if i if i thought there was any point in my voting, i would vote. but there isn't any. and this is the other thing, this is exactly what i'm saying. if there is a point in your voting, you should vote to achieve the result you want. if you want a labour government vote reform but if enough don't want a labour government, then voting reform is just a stupid thing. >> but if enough people out where you i don't know where you live. none of my business. but if enough people in your area turned out and actually said no, we don't want whoever the candidate is, we're going to come out and we're going to vote for whoever it was, then you could get changed. >> but this is in the categories. if we had some eggs, we could have some ham and eggs. if we had some ham, it isn't going to happen. i know this it is. i won't name it because then you have to read up. yeah. >> no, don't name it. i'll be here all day. >> there's a constituency in which there is a very large

labour majority, and there has been for many years, and also a very effective labour organisation. right >> there you go. are you any the wiser as to who to vote for? >> yes or don't vote labour and don't vote. don't >> have you got his message? i think he's not vote reform. >> it's not a subtle point that he's making the point being subtle at this stage, the country is on the brink of disaster. >> i can tell you, though. i can tell you that many people are getting in touch with me and saying that actually, whatever the outcome is, they want to basically vote for how they feel, is right in their conscience. gets. yeah, i do, of course, lemmings get a very bad press. >> you know, they lemmings don't actually hurl themselves over cliffs. well, but it seems as if people sometimes do . people sometimes do. >> what do you think to what he's saying? tell me. i'll tell you who else has been speaking out today, though. george galloway, of course he , unveiled galloway, of course he, unveiled the manifesto for the workers party of britain . one of the party of britain. one of the things that he had to say really caught my eye. listen i'm going to make a prediction to you, andrew. >> if keir starmer becomes the prime minister within six months, britain will be at war. i don't mean a proxy war. i

don't mean special forces dressed up as arabs or russians. ukrainians i mean an actual war with british forces deployed within six months of keir starmer becoming prime minister. and then it's game on. >> what do you think to that? aaron bastani well, it's interesting as the as as he gets older, george's beard seems to get darker . i love that that's get darker. i love that that's your main take. >> apart from that, no . in all >> apart from that, no. in all seriousness, he is an astute and canny observer on foreign affairs. you don't have to agree with him. he's been proven right many times over the last 20 years. not always, but very often. and i, i don't think that's a particularly outlandish point. i think it's very plausible that britain finds itself in a conflict very soon. british made weapons have been used not just against russian forces, but inside russia. and that was a massive step. and i actually think that's partly why

perhaps we're having an election, because rishi sunak thought as an unelected prime minister i don't want to be the person responsible for taking this country into a major war. so, look, i'm not saying it's likely or inevitable, but i think it's very, very possible. and that's why that's why people should vote. because who leads the since will war matters? >> peter, do you agree with his prediction? >> i don't agree with his prediction, but i am filled with foreboding. i think that there is great danger from the way in which we're behaving in ukraine, that that that we could be drawn into actual war. i don't say within six months i wouldn't like to give a figure and it may not happen at all, but we are playing an extremely dangerous game for purposes which i have to say, escape me. but i have long ago learned that on the ukraine it's a huge disadvantage to know anything about the subject , and to know anything about the subject, and i do know to know anything about the subject , and i do know a to know anything about the subject, and i do know a lot about the subject, so i've learned to keep quiet about it because people just shout at you, but i we are making a grave mistake. and the fact that george galloway says we're in danger shouldn't be taken by people as meaning that we

aren't. >> but then he says, i mean, what he specifically said was, if you have keir starmer as your prime minister, then this is the outcome . if you had someone else outcome. if you had someone else as your prime minister, do you think that would be avoided or not? >> i don't know, i don't, i'm not exactly. i'd like to know the context of why he said it in that particular fashion. i'm not sure there's enough difference between keir starmer and rishi sunak on the ukraine to justify saying that. i say, but i think that it is. it is perfectly reasonable to say to the british pubuc reasonable to say to the british public that the current policy of the british government in ukraine is a dangerous one and has unpredictable consequences. and they should be aware of it. but i saying there will be war in six months if keir starmer as prime minister, is obviously one of those things you can't conceivably prove and therefore probably shouldn't say. but of course, george, leading a party which is certainly not going to win a general election, and a man who's already on the fringes of politics can pretty much say what he likes, can't he? >> well , one what he likes, can't he? >> well, one of my what he likes, can't he? >> well , one of my viewers, eva, >> well, one of my viewers, eva, she says galloway, is right, and also wrong. she says what she

thinks is coming is a civil war. cor blimey . this is all cor blimey. this is all uplifting, isn't it? everybody? it tends to happen when george galloway drifts into the room. >> this is not this is the. it tends to go a bit dark. >> mike. one of my viewers says, can i just say to this point, i've only had one person knock on my door canvassing for votes. he says it's a labour rep. he says, i find that a little bit sad when i was running for election, i always i didn't really like knocking on people's doors. i did it, don't get me wrong. but i didn't like it because when people knock on my doom because when people knock on my doonl because when people knock on my door, i see it as a bit of a breach of my privacy. that's bit extreme, but i find it a bit of a i don't know what the right word is. it's a little bit like like, leave me. i don't answer my door, i don't answer my door if i don't know who it is, i don't answer my phone if i don't recognise the number. maybe i'm just a bit antisocial, but i just a bit antisocial, but i just find it a little bit of an invasion of my private space door knocking. >> people have completely changed their attitude towards this over the past 50 years. it used to be perfectly

particularly, in, in when i used to do canvassing for a party i won't name in case it means you have to read out lots of. yeah, but when i used to do it, you went around the side rather than the front door. but it was not. it was. people answered the door and now they don't. and so i was talking to a to a parliamentary candidate in another constituency i won't name the other day, he said nobody answers the door anymore. they just don't do it. so it's gone and round where i live. in fact, i've seen, i think , four posters i've seen, i think, four posters for the labour party and they've all been on extremely expensive houses. that's it, tim said. >> in his view , not labour party >> in his view, not labour party normally take over a buoyant economy, then crash it. this time they are taking over what he calls a bit of a crashed already economy. he says it could be interesting , already economy. he says it could be interesting, daniel says i've been saving up for a house. i've worked seven days a week for over two years, save up my savings pot, so labour can sling their hooky. says if they want to try and get his their

hands on his savings. i've want to try and get his their hands on his savings . i've got hands on his savings. i've got an interesting question. i might come back to it after the break, but he, one of my viewers says, can you just ask peter, it's david, peter says, can you ask peter? in his opinion, how do we ever get change as an electorate then, if we don't change our vote away from establishment parties, i'll let them listen to me. >> that's what you have to do. if you listen, you listen to me. in 2010, you could have done it . in 2010, you could have done it. it was perfectly safe to ditch the conservative party in 2010. all you had was, was, was the remains of gordon brown. you didn't have this menace that we have from starmer . could have have from starmer. could have doneit have from starmer. could have done it then, but you wouldn't listen. >> well, will you be listening to peter, or have you got a strong opinion in a different direction? get in touch. don't be shy. all the usual ways. lots to talk about after the break, you know, this benefit cap for two children. is it time to remove that cap or not? also, pride in primary schools. really? do you agree with that or

not? hello there. i'm michel jubran. i'm with you till 7:00 tonight alongside the columnist for the mail on sunday, peter hitchens, and the co—founder of novara media, aaron bastani. lots of you are not holding back with what you think about peter hitchens after the way he's been talking about how people should or perhaps should not vote anyway . look, you know, the snp, anyway. look, you know, the snp, i don't think he cares. i think he's fine. i care like anything, the snp, of course, launched their manifesto today and within it they were one of the latest parties to basically be calling for the two child benefit cap to be lifted . let's cut straight to be lifted. let's cut straight to the chase on this one. aaron bastani what do you think to that? >> i think it should be removed and quite remarkably , actually, and quite remarkably, actually, in the debate last week, nigel farage agrees . we are the only farage agrees. we are the only country in the oecd who cap benefit, and that's basically countries in the west who cap benefits with regards to children at two children, most countries don't cap it for any

number of children. i think there's spain, a couple of other countries, two child benefits not capped. is it benefits in relation to children . relation to children. >> so child benefit you can have my mum. >> to be clear this is principally around universal credit. yeah. there are several countries which cap it at 3 or 4 children, including spain. nobody else does it at two children. and i think it's a very , very, very bad idea. very, very, very bad idea. you've got about a million kids growing up in poverty as a result of this. in terms of you don't have to even agree with it as a policy or the role of the state or anything like that, pound for pound, in terms of how many kids it takes out of poverty for about £25 billion a yeanl poverty for about £25 billion a year, i think it makes total sense. and the thing is, somebody might say, well, we can't afford to scrap it. i would say we can't afford to have a million kids in poverty because the costs of that to society and the taxpayer over the long term are astronomical. so it makes perfect sense. and we have this very large coalition now , opposing that coalition now, opposing that cap, including nigel farage and the snp . i can't imagine they the snp. i can't imagine they agree on very much, but it doesn't include , crucially, the doesn't include, crucially, the likely next government, which is

laboun >> peter, what do you think? >> peter, what do you think? >> well, i think it's extraordinary how mean british governments are to families with children. i compared with with governments on the continent, the there just really are extremely mean. and i and in some ways i'm baffled by it as to why you should be so hostile to why you should be so hostile to family life where they are in so many other ways as well. i can't see any reason to, to, to cap it at, to, at all. and it seems to me to be completely unjustified . unjustified. >> well, let me just bring in a different perspective here, because one of the reasons that it was capped in the first place is obviously affects children that were born. i think it's after 2017, and again, just to be clear, it's not child benefit we're talking about. it's the other benefits, like your universal credit , the child universal credit, the child component of that. and i think it's working tax credit. the child component of that as well. so it's those two things basically that we're talking about. one of the reasons, if not the primary reason that it was brought in was because it was brought in was because it was said that actually, if you're working, you're not, entitled to any benefits at all. you perhaps will struggle when you have more children. the

essence there, the idea behind it was actually if you then do rely on the welfare state, why shouldn't you be subject to the same struggle as the working family? >> well, i think a majority of people who this affects actually, it's well, a majority of households, this affects at least one of the parents is in work . so it's not necessarily or work. so it's not necessarily or evenin work. so it's not necessarily or even in fact, for the majority of cases, people who aren't working. this is people who are working, and they have fallen on hard times. you know, you could have 3 or 4 kids. you could be a very prosperous, well to do family. somebody dies , you break family. somebody dies, you break up, something happens, and all of a sudden you're penalised and you're living in absolute penury. i appreciate that's not the majority of cases, but it's many, many, many thousands. >> let me put a flip side to this, because there will be some people watching going, well, hang on a second then. if someone does decide that they don't want to work and then they want to breed like rabbits, why should the taxpayer pick up the bill? >> people don't breed like rabbits in this country. >> we have a birth rate of 1.5 per woman. in this country, our

birth rate is collapsing. it's collapsing. people aren't breeding like rabbits. i mean, i mean, i think in ten years time politicians will be saying, please breed like rabbits. >> but, you know, in many countries they are in russia. they constantly struggling to get people to have more children. it is amazing how for many years how anti the family and how anti children british governments have been. i just makes no sense to me at all. >> well there's two votes essentially for getting rid of that cap on this panel. what do you say to that at home and what does this or would this affect you. your thoughts on all of that? look after the break. absolute just appalling scenes if you ask me. crossing the channel if you ask me. crossing the channel, we had over 800 people yesterday. anyone anywhere got the solutions to this. tell me

hello, everybody. michelle dewberry . with you till seven.

dewberry. with you till seven. the columnist at mail on sunday, peter hitchens and the co—founder of novara media, aaron bastani, remain alongside me. very serious matter when it comes to crossing the channel. we all know what's going on there, get this. so everybody , there, get this. so everybody, yesterday, 882 people made that crossing as anyone got the answer to this. do you believe aaron bastani, i struggle to think so in terms of its stopping. not really. i mean, obviously reform have come out with a pretty, strident position with a pretty, strident position with regards to their manifesto, this week. but no, i don't think so. i mean , i think my views on so. i mean, i think my views on this are pretty well documented that you can't have a foreign policy, and it's not an immediate solution, but you can't have a foreign policy which purposely tries to dismantle countries overseas. and then get upset when those people come over here. by way of one example, iran , i'm sure. i one example, iran, i'm sure. i don't know for sure, but with regards to this specifically, but i'm sure many of those 880

people coming over yesterday, many would have been from iran. we have a policy of economic sanctions on iran designed to destroy that country's economy. so i find it rather strange that we would then say, oh my goodness, they're leaving a country we're trying to economically detonate. how dare they? so i think if you want to. >> so then you must accept that their economic migrants. >> then many will be. yes, of course, from iran, many will be. >> and of course you've got countries, many will be vietnam for example, i would leave or vietnam, for example. was one of the top countries where people were coming over from . so that were coming over from. so that argument doesn't really ring true, what's the algeria ? was it true, what's the algeria? was it algeria? no, albania until recently. until we got that. returns agreement. so some yes. true for some of those countries. but certainly not for all. what do you make to old peter hitchens? well, i agree with aaron about this. >> it's ridiculous for us to to, make so many wars of choice in, particularly in the middle east and above all, the disastrous david cameron libya war, which opened up the mediterranean crossings. it's ridiculous for us to do this kind of thing and

then and then be surprised when it increases the level of illegal migration here. and we should stop doing these adventures immediately and realised the connection. it still leaves you with the problem of people coming across the channel. i don't think the thing can be solved . i think it thing can be solved. i think it can be very much ameliorated. i think the i, i have to revise what i've said about about the rwanda scheme because of what's happenedin rwanda scheme because of what's happened in ireland, where it's quite plain that it is beginning to have a deterrent effect. and also, as the prime minister has now pointed out several times, a number of continental countries have begun to consider similar schemes. so i think we should stop necessarily mocking that as ineffectual . it might do some ineffectual. it might do some good. ultimately, it depends on the french i would do. i would pay the french i would do. i would pay the french almost anything and badger them limitlessly to get them to stop the people leaving. that is the nearest you'll get to a solution is to get the french state, which, if the french state decides to mobilise , is extremely mobilise, is extremely effective, but we get them to do it. and i would very much concentrate on that. plus rwanda, you could get it down,

but it doesn't solve the other problem of legal migration, what do you think to labour ripping up essentially that rwanda plan on day one? >> well, it's very brave in a way, because actually that policy is quite popular with people , it was popular anyway. people, it was popular anyway. i certainly don't support it. i suppose the counterargument by labouris suppose the counterargument by labour is you've spent hundreds of millions, nobody's gone there. and it's not made any difference. it's a bit of a white elephant. but at the time to have now gone voluntarily, haven't they? the second one went it was very popular when it was announced. i remember the polling around it. >> but like what he said, like what peter just said >> but like what he said, like what peterjust said , it has what peter just said, it has been having an effect because people have been going to ireland anecdotally. >> i think that's that's it's an extremely powerful piece of anecdotally. but then, you know, what strong anecdote's, you know for sure. >> but we're also talking about yesterday, 882 people crossing the english channel. so it can't be. >> but that goes with the weather. doesn't it? if the wind, if the wind blows in certain directions and it's and the sea is reasonably calm, you will get the numbers going, going up. if it's the other thing, they'll go down. but the fundamental control point is them getting into the sea on the

french side. and if the french can be persuaded to seriously interdict that, then we will get a long way. we haven't, i think, fully got got there yet . and of fully got got there yet. and of course france is in its own chaos at the moment. but i think that if you want anything remotely resembling a solution , remotely resembling a solution, that's where it lies. >> i mean, what i would say is just quickly, israel is talking about potential war with lebanon. you know, the french can quadruple spending on monitoring their coastline, etc. but if there's a war between israel and iran, for instance, you know , we will have many more you know, we will have many more people coming here. it's as simple as that. so foreign policy really needs to be the cornerstone. if you care about this issue, it needs to be the cornerstone of that. you can't have in your near abroad. millions of people constantly being displaced and expect them to not come here because they will. >> let me ask you, i'm almost out of time for the show. let me ask you very quick question. do you think it is time to basically call a national emergency now when it comes to protecting borders, engage the military in trying to protect the border in the channel or

not? >> no, i think all such measures give give excessive power to the state. and once they begin, they're very hard to dismantle. i think it would just be a slogan in the end. i think you have to look at carefully designed, intelligent measures to make things better rather than seek endlessly a magic bullet which doesn't exist . bullet which doesn't exist. >> do you think we need to call a national emergency and involve the military in this? >> no. i think we need to drop sanctions on iran. i think we need to have a different approach with regards to the governments of iraq, iran, afghanistan. and i think that's the place where you start. this starts and ends, i think, with foreign policy. so we need to start getting into bed with the taliban, for example, getting into bed with them. just have a pragmatic look. if you don't want , you know, tens of want, you know, tens of thousands of iranians coming to this country over the channel and many of those will be coming because of economic reasons. if you don't want that to happen, then of course, we need to end sanctions on iran . if you think sanctions on iran. if you think the sanctions matter more, then that's fine. but then one consequence will be people will be leaving because they they

don't want to live and die in a country which is in permanent economic collapse. >> these sanctions tend to punish the pro—western people in these countries as well. >> i've got to say, i completely disagree with the pair of you. i think that they should have been an emergency declared a very long time ago. i absolutely think that the military should have been involved in defending that border . if people stormed that border. if people stormed border control at one of the airports, you wouldn't be all standing around pontificating about what foreign policy had caused that. >> if in a state of emergency was declared, we like france, there'd be squaddies wandering around in shopping malls. that's all you'd get. >> well, it hasn't stopped the boat crossing . it's always a boat crossing. it's always a good job. i'm not prime minister. that's all for now. thank you gents , thank you. at thank you gents, thank you. at home, camilla is up next. don't go anywhere. i'll see you tomorrow night . tomorrow night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar , sponsors of weather on . solar, sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> hi there and welcome to the latest forecast from the met office for gb news. fine. for most of us during the next 24 hours, clear overnight and then

warm sunshine to come for many on thursday. in fact, sunny skies for the majority on thursday. although overnight there will be some thicker cloud arriving into the north and northwest of scotland that will tend to sink south ever so slowly , with a fizzling band of slowly, with a fizzling band of light and patchy rain, the breeze picking up that cloud and rain reaching northern ireland dunng rain reaching northern ireland during the early hours. england and wales meanwhile, clearing skies and with light winds, temperatures falling into the single figures. in fact, in some spots 4 or 5 celsius by dawn. so a bit of a chill in the air once again, but it won't last long. there's going to be plenty of sunshine for england and wales. same can't be said for much of scotland and northern ireland. northern scotland sees the best of the sunshine first thing, but for much of central and southern scotland we'll see thicker cloud and some light outbreaks of rain and some light outbreaks of rain and drizzle. at times. northern ireland much of the rain will be towards the north and west, brighter skies towards the south and east. meanwhile england and wales sunny skies. although there will be a veil of high

cloud cirrus in the sky that will turn the sun a little hazy at times through the morning. temperatures rising quickly, then through the day. less cloud around compared with wednesday, although there will be some fair weather cloud building across wales into the midlands couldn't rule out the odd light shower from this and later in the day some heavy showers over the continent could just brush the far south—east but where we've got the sunshine, temperatures up to 23 or 24 celsius, so a warm and fine day for the vast majority. friday begins with cloud once again pushing into western and northern scotland , western and northern scotland, northern ireland and some outbreaks of rain move in more persistent wet weather towards the end of the day. elsewhere staying warm and sunny once more. but for saturday we're going to see a band of showers move across before warm sunshine returns. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt

gb news. >> good evening, and welcome to vote 2024. the people decide with me. camilla tominey coming up on tonight's show. we're going to be discussing the bombshell poll, which spells tory ageddon for rishi sunak. >> we're also going to be speaking to the muslim entrepreneur who's decided to back reform rather than the tories . and we'll be speaking tories. and we'll be speaking about another bombshell this time. it's a book about the beckhams . beckhams. >> we'll also be joined by a leading tiktok star who'll be talking to us about child obesity. do get in touch with your thoughts on tonight's topics by visiting gbnews.com forward slash your say. but first, here's the news with polly middlehurst