dates of the election. i can tell you now. rishi sunak needs this like a hole in the head. he's under pressure to suspend these candidates should he or not. also, tonight, you know by now that there's this willy warranty keir starmer. is he going to increase council tax.7 he says no. do you believe him though? but i also want to open up the debate. now, do you think council tax should be increased? doesit council tax should be increased? does it need reform or not? also parliamentary candidates now apparently are not able to attend hustings due to safety. do we do enough to help these people or not? and last but not least, prisoners. i mean, we know by now that this system is absolutely broken. who is going to be the party to fix it ?

to be the party to fix it? all of that and more. but first, tonight's news headlines . tonight's news headlines. >> michelle, thanks very much indeed.the >> michelle, thanks very much indeed. the top story from the gb newsroom tonight. the conservative candidate, laura saunders, who's facing a probe over allegedly betting on the timing of the uk election, says she'll be cooperating with the gambling commission investigation. laura saunders and her husband tony lee, who is the campaign director for the conservative party are both under scrutiny over the allegations . a solicitor for allegations. a solicitor for mrs. saunders say she's also considering legal action against the bbc and other outlets for infringements of her privacy rights. and that comes after another tory candidate, craig williams, admitted to an error of judgement after placing a bet on when the election would take place. government minister michael gove says the allegations are reprehensible. >> is the case that obviously

any decision by anyone to use inside information to bet on the election date that is wrong, deeply regrettable. but i think the individuals concerned are now being investigated and until that process is concluded , i that process is concluded, i think it's difficult for me to say more. >> michael gove well, sir keir starmer has criticised the conservatives, saying the behaviour would never be tolerated by labour. >> this candidate should be suspended and it's very telling that rishi sunak has not already done that . if it was one of my done that. if it was one of my candidates, they'd be gone and their feet would not have touched the floor. >> keir starmer, now the bank of england, has held its interest rate at 5.25. that is the highest level since 2008. it is a blow as well for borrowers, but it could be good news for those with savings. the bank says it needs more certainty than inflation will stay low. but minutes from the bank of england's meeting do hint at the possibility of a cut in interest rates by the time they meet again in august, and that comes

as new information has been released, which estimates that the average first time buyer now needs to earn more than £60,000 a year to buy a property. property website zoopla says would be buyers trying to get onto the property ladder need an income of nearly £15,000 a year more than they did five years ago. now, as you've been hearing throughout the afternoon here on gb news, a friend of missing british teenager jay slater insists he would have tried to get help if he was in trouble. lucy law has said the 19 year old, from lancashire rang her dunng old, from lancashire rang her during their holiday in tenerife and told her he didn't know where he was , despite jay's where he was, despite jay's mobile phone being on 1% battery. he did manage to send a photograph of his location. his mother has since joined a team of mountain rescuers and local police on the island of tenerife , and the search is now in its third day. back to the election and michael gove says the

conservatives are still capable of pulling off what he's calling a poll defying election victory, despite forecasts of a labour landslide. but new yougov data suggests the conservatives will slump to their lowest number of seats ever, while labour could win a 200 seat majority . it's win a 200 seat majority. it's also predicting significant gains for the lib dems, winning 67 seats six times. their result in 2019. now a further 45 cases of e coli have been reported in england, but health experts are saying the rate of new infections has slowed down. the uk health security agency says the additional cases were recorded between june the 14th and 18th, and bring the total number of confirmed cases to 256. health experts say the figure is, though , still likely figure is, though, still likely to rise as nhs labs continue with their testing. the food standards agency traced the outbreak to salad in pre—packaged sandwiches in several supermarkets, have removed sandwiches with salad

from their shelves as a result . from their shelves as a result. now emissions created by burning fossil fuels should be considered when granting planning permission for new drilling sites. that's according to a new ruling by the supreme court. sarah finch challenged a decision by surrey county council to allow the expansion of an oil well site in 2019. her appeal was challenged by the council, which argued that the law didn't require downstream effects of emissions to be considered, but today's ruling overturns the original decision to grant planning permission. in that case. now, let's bring you the very latest from the euros . the very latest from the euros. we can tell you that the game is still progressing in frankfurt. it's still one one. as i look at the live feed coming to me here and thousands of football fans , and thousands of football fans, of course, gathered in the german city for england's game against denmark. if you're watching on tv, you can see the

fan zone in wembley right now. local concerns for the potential for trouble in frankfurt. but so far the mood calm. despite seeing danish fans walking down the streets in in frankfurt chanting it's never coming home. gareth southgate sticking to that unchanged squad following his team's one nil victory over serbia . harry kane scoring an serbia. harry kane scoring an early goal but denmark equalising shortly afterwards. so supporters in nottingham as well gathering to cheer england on. here they are in the moments before that. oh no. this is live pictures that we're showing you right now of them watching the game as it, starts again for the second half. i can also tell you the prime minister, rishi sunak, has been posting on social media this morning wishing the england squad good luck for that game. we're still wishing them on. that's the news. for the latest stories sign up to gb news alerts, scan the qr code on your screen or go to gb news.

carmelites . carmelites. >> thank you very much for that , >> thank you very much for that, polly. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm with you till 7:00 tonight alongside me, my panel. i've got the former conservative mp paul scully and the former labour mp luciana berger. good evening to both of you and thank you to each and every one of you for joining us tonight. football what football is more entertaining here if you ask me, you know the drill, though. it's not just about us. it is about you guys at home as well. what on earth is on your mind tonight? you can get in touch all the usual ways. you can email gbviews@gbnews.com. you can go to the website gb news. com slash your say. or of course you can tweet or x me wherever you're watching or listening tonight. you are very very welcome indeed . now let's cut to welcome indeed. now let's cut to the chase because things are not going well over in the tory camp. now. we've got not one, not two, but three people now are under investigation for placing bets on when on earth the election would be called.

you've got two parliamentary candidates and of course the close protection officer. this is not good. it's not good at all. i would say it's actually quite grubby, really. one of my viewers has just got in touch, philip. and you're saying this is the fault of the betting firms? you're suggesting that actually these companies shouldn't be allowed to take bets at all on the dates of the election. really? not sure i agree with you on that, paul, you know , i don't mean to be you know, i don't mean to be rude, but it does feel a little bit like from the moment this election was called and the pounng election was called and the pouring rain and all the rest of it, things just seem to be going from bad to worse to the conservative. i mean, am i being unkind or do you feel like that as a conservative? >> no i do, you're not being unkind. look, let me get the rider out of the way. that there is an investigation going on. so we'll see the detail, because this is sort of sort of speculation at the moment. but clearly there's a, there's, you know, there's wrongdoing really looks like it. and it's appalling, you're right. it feels like we're shooting ourselves in the foot and we're not millipedes. we've only got two feet. and so, you know,

there's only so much capacity. we've got this when you've got the effectively what's a punishment election when you've got people that are wanting to punish the conservatives and so they're going to be looking under the microscope. absolutely everything that we do. and then we're making it easy for them to punish us even further on that basis, because there's no way you should be using inside information, not just because of the morality of it, but frankly, you know, in the middle of an election, it just looks absolutely awful. it's just campaign rule number one, don't do something stupid that you wouldn't want to see on the front of the daily mail or another broadsheet, or i've got to say, i mean, i also regard it as incredibly thick behaviour. >> i mean, obviously, i don't condone, cheating or, you know , condone, cheating or, you know, insider trading or whatever people want to call these things. i don't condone them. i'm not saying anyone should do it, but if you are going to do it, but if you are going to do it, you wouldn't use your own kind of name and all the rest of it to do that, because one of these people, it immediately flagged up an alert to the company. and i just think, i mean, if you're just giving up, not you, but i've just given up and just gone, do you know what?

whatever. we might as well just do anything now. so i think the frustrating thing, i used to be a councillor back in the day when we joined the expenses scandal, these kind of things. >> and i've seen what stuff that's going up in westminster when i was a local politician and before that when i was a local volunteer, just knocking on doors, trying to help out. and you sit there and you ring your hands and what happens is that people very easily when they're in westminster, either in party headquarters or number 10 or in parliament, get in a bubble and you forget about why you're there to serve the public and actually do the right thing. you just get wrapped up in your own thing thinking you're invincible. it was similar with partygate and these other kind of things. it looks awful because it is awful. >> luciano, what do you make to it? >> well, i mean, it is. in— >> well, i mean, it is. i thought i would have thought and used the word grubby before we had this conversation today. it's it makes your skin crawl. and, you know, this is a time of elections. it's about choosing the people that are going to represent you. we have something in this country called the nolan principles for the standards of pubuc principles for the standards of public life, and two of those are about honesty and integrity. and this calls into question

people that want to put themselves to stand for parliament, either for the first time or again, people who themselves are representatives at the highest level of the conservative party. and it just it just calls into question the whole issue of trust. this is yet another trust issue. paul mentioned the issues of partying and partygate during covid, you know, giving ppe contract to your mates to the tune of multi—millions of pounds. your mates to the tune of multi—millions of pounds . and multi—millions of pounds. and this is yet another thing where it's like someone trying to make a quick buck out of the election, you know, just try and, you know, make, make some money out of it, when actually this is like kind of playing with the country. and i think you know, it's an affront to the british public. >> i'd say. i think the ppe thing is slightly different. as much at the time we were in a real rush, every, every country was in a right rush to, to get out. i remember before they had the sort of fast lanes, the guy that sorted out the olympics procurement actually came in to try and tidy up what was happening, and it seemed like we were selling the same production lines from china about five times over, because no one really knew what was going on, rather than i wouldn't

necessarily put that in the same boat, but it is just across the political board. what it does. it puts people off politicians, not just the conservatives at the moment it's the conservative party, but it just puts people off politicians and getting involved in politics in the first place. >> it's a disservice to us all. it's a disservice to the country. >> well, in the news headlines a second ago, you were just head keir starmer. he was speaking out and essentially saying that those candidates should basically be suspended. and he's obviously calling out rishi sunak for not doing that. what do you think to that? >> well, as i say, i just don't have that. the information to hand. there is an investigation going on. all right. so let's what you can't do, you can't take you can't take them off the ballot paper. they're all gone. >> so let's fast forward then and assume that they are guilty of this, should they be disowned by the tories then? well, yeah, i think that's i think that's fair. >> because if you, you know, if it's been shown that they had information and they used it for their own advantage, then that's not appropriate. >> and the first thing to say, it's illegal. if they are found to have committed what is a crime, you know, that's what it is. and let's call it out for

you know, this is not just like someone having like a little flutter on the side if you have inside information and you use it to place a bet to win, and you do win, that is illegal. and it's very clear in our law. but but what i would say is, hang on, because i thought it was i thought it was even broader than that, because i thought it wasn't. >> if you win, then you think it's if you bet, if you bet, if you cheat, irrespective, you might get it wrong. you're right. yeah, you might get it wrong. and even if you get it wrong, then you're still in breach of the rules, because it's the fact that you've leveraged that information to place that bet irrespective of the outcome. >> absolutely. i think i think there's one there's one thing that's also particularly concerning. so yes, once someone is on the ballot paper, you can't remove them like the deadune can't remove them like the deadline has passed. but you can and arguably should do if you if you've got a strong inclination that they are, that they have indulged in this behaviour and they have placed those bets and they have placed those bets and they should no longer be standing as conservative candidates. and the thing that's kind of most troubling to me is that we saw very, very rapid action taken against the prime minister's close protection officer. and yet this information we understand, you know, is something that has been made available to downing street for a number of days. it feels

like it's just been sat on and actually swift action should be taken and there's nothing to prevent the party from saying, well, yes, we can't take you off the ballot paper, but we can disown you. and i think that's what we haven't seen been guilty of stuff. well, well, i mean, it's listen, of course guilty, you know, innocent until proven guilty. absolutely. >> but we're sort of getting into speculation. that's that's part of i understand exactly what you're saying. and we do need robust action when, you know, when we can have that. but i think we're sort of in the difference. >> the difference is i just again, come back to this point, we saw very swift action taken and very swift condemnation of the close protection officer. we have not seen that same charge levelled at the people. >> i'm not sure what the difference is in terms of the information that they know about him or her. i don't know, but. >> well, it does. you know, there has been a letter that's been sent today by the campaign lead on the labour side , calling lead on the labour side, calling on rishi sunak to apply the same principles to the candidates , principles to the candidates, either the mp who's standing again or the candidate in bristol who is standing for the first time. >> another day. it's another day

. we're not talking about taxation. we're not talking about the cost of living. we're not talking about the economy. we're not talking about the things that actually matter to people on a day to day basis. i agree with you. and there are there are candidates, conservative candidates, you know, obviously as well that they're up and down this country that are trying to do the right thing by their local constituencies. and i know having been in that position myself, how frustrating that is . myself, how frustrating that is. you know, i'm out helping, you know , some candidates and they, know, some candidates and they, you know, i won't mention their names because the ofcom rules, but they but, you know, it is a frustration when they can't do their own job because they're being held to account on about, about other people. >> but, but i think that the, the leadership of the conservative party could have done so much more to shut this down much quicker. but rather than saying, well, we can't talk about it because it's under investigation, again, i make the comparison with what's done with the close protection officer and just say the leadership. >> i mean, i think the leadership is part of the problem. you see that it's not just from this issue. >> this is about the i think the labour party got a bit a bit of a cheek, actually, because what ever happened to that fella,

nick brown, who is under investigation for stuff that has been so tightly , controlled that been so tightly, controlled that information, no one really knows what's going on there. so i actually think that before keir starmer is the under police investigation, who knows. >> no. >> no. >> did we who knows. and this is the point that i'm making. this guy was a very senior and very well known member of the labour party. it'sjust well known member of the labour party. it's just gone. so there's like a wall of silence. so if i was keir starmer before i started chuntering about everyone else, doing this and that and the other, when it comes to investigations, i'd have a little bit of a look in the mirror and i'd ask myself, what's going on with nick brown? and don't the public actually deserve to know information about that? what do you make to all of that? look after the break, i want to talk to you about a big issue council tax. what do you think to this? there's rumours that perhaps keir starmer is going to try and change this, increase it, perhaps do you think it is time for a reform of that system then or not? you tell

hello there. welcome to dewbs & hello there. welcome to dewbs& co with me, michelle dewberry. keeping you company until 7:00 tonight. alongside me, the former conservative mp paul scully and the former labour mp luciana berger. good evening. welcome back everybody. there's a lot of people getting in touch and i think it's a real shame, you know, just pointing out that you're saying that you think that standard is within politics has just declined . and i it has just declined. and i it really makes me sad because we talk all the time about how do we encourage people to turn out and vote. and surely you've got to start with having a system that people value and believe in and can put their faith in. and if we don't have that, it's not a lot, really, is it, david says, here we go again. trial by media. these people are investigated. they are not found guilty yet. essentially leave them alone. paul says, why are you surprised that somebody involved in politics would act

involved in politics would act in a way that is potentially grubby? cor blimey, paul, you're a harsh man. look, there's been a harsh man. look, there's been a lot of rumour about council tax and what's going to happen to this. so let's just look at what keir starmer has been talking about. >> it will not be an increase in council tax. >> look nick, what i'm not going to do is sit to here and a bit weeks before the election and write the budgets for the next five years. what i can say, what i can say is that none of our plans require a tax rise. >> you're declining to take the opportunity to say that tax will rise, will not attack, council tax will not increase. so i can put it to you that it will increase. you can say, i don't know, nick. >> look it would it would be foolish to write five years worth of budgets before going through to 2020. you do you do realise respectfully every time you say, we're not going to raise vat, we're not going to raise vat, we're not going to raise it. >> and everybody says, what about council tax? and you say, well, i honestly can't, you know what people are thinking. you're a bright bloke. council tax will go up. >> yeah. well let me clearly know. clearly it will. no nick that isn't it won't upload. no nick it. none of our plans

require a tax rate to go up . require a tax rate to go up. >> i mean, you can make your own mind up on that. but let me ask you why. if labour party have no plans to raise council tax, why wouldn't keir starmer just turn around and say, look, we've set out the plans as they currently stand. we have no current plans at all to raise council tax or to alter council tax. why not rule it out? well i think he did. >> i mean really. yeah. and it's not just what he said. i've also listened very closely to what other members of the shadow cabinet have said, including rachel reeves, who's the shadow chancellor who if she's if labouris chancellor who if she's if labour is successful in two weeks time, will be the chancellor and will be in charge of money. and she was pretty robust when asked about it yesterday. she's pretty clear. the answer is no . the answer is no. >> then five times he didn't turn around and go, no, we're not going to do it. >> we didn't hear what the first question was that the specific question was that the specific question that he was asked that he was responding to, and obviously, again, in in preparation for our conversation today, i was listening and looking very closely at not just what keir starmer has said, but

also those people that are going to be in charge around him in a potential labour cabinet. and they've been very, very clear and they've said, you know, look at the costings, look at what's in our manifesto, not just the pages. and i would urge any of youn pages. and i would urge any of your, any of your viewers to have a look and to read the labour manifesto, but go to the grey section as well. the grey section at the end is very the costings is very, very clear where the money is going to come from, where it's to be generated from, where it's to be generated from that. >> now, when you're saying to people go read the manifesto, i'm just saying i'm just i'm just saying, but, you know, they've talked the labour has rightly talked about the lock, the manifestos. this is the problem. >> no, no no no no no no no no >> n0, [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 ho >> no, no no no no no no no no no. you can't judge one party on the actions of another party. they are not the same. they're not the same. and keir has, i think, been very, very clear in all of the debates and discussions that he's had about in particularly in the context of the conversation we've just had, is that we need to return some form of decency in our politics. and when we make when politicians or when parties make pledges and commitments that those are honoured, why are we in the situation that we're in now? and i see it on the doorstep. i've also been campaigning across the country, knocked on many doors and heard

the levels of dissatisfaction and the levels of distrust in the public. the party is very, very concerned, as it rightly should be, that at this election the promises that it makes to be fully funded, fully costed , and fully funded, fully costed, and that it's making pledges that it knows that it can keep. >> yeah, i you've not convinced me. i absolutely, categorically don't believe that they will stick to everything in this manifesto and that what's in the manifesto and that what's in the manifesto is a sum total. you at home might have a different view. maybe you do categorically believe that it's a sum total of what is in that grey paper. let me just bring you in, paul. what do you make to this? >> i think it's got to be much clearer about it, because the thing is, with it is he's obviously going to keep himself some wiggle room about taxes. he's ruled out some specific tax increases , but with council tax increases, but with council tax changes, it's not just a budget and you change it around. this is something that was settled in 1991. everything is just based on the valuations that were done by people driving past with the clipboard. in 1991, assuming what was in those houses. and so if you're going to re—evaluate council tax, it's a massive job.

so it's something that you should be able to actually say, you know what, this is big. this is going to affect people. we need to think about it long and hard before we even go there. so let's just rule it out for the next five years. be really clear. >> is that not a fairer position to have? >> well, i mean, there's a few things though. firstly, i would say that it's a really important practical point for anyone watching that there is an opportunity for people to contest their banding. i've certainly done it twice and been successful. so people should be should be made aware that that opportunity exists. and there are some challenges about how areas have evolved and developed over time. but again, i think it speaks to this question of being direct and being clear. and again, i've listened very closely to what's been said, and in particular was listening to the interviews yesterday with rachel reeves and who's going to be in charge of the money. and she was very, very, very clear when she was asked about council tax that this is not something that they're going to pursue. >> i think part of the problem with keir is, you know, as pm is that you often get this wriggle room that he allows himself to be because he's been so cautious. we always talk about him holding the ming vase, not wanting to drop it because he's just going to win by default in

two weeks time, and so he doesn't want to do anything silly. so it's just actually, you can be bold when you just, you can be bold when you just, you know, ruling something like that that's not going to drop the ming vase by saying you know what, i'm not going to re—evaluate council tax. >> let's look at another thing, keir starmer was saying, i think it was in the same interview, actually, about working people. we keep hearing this phrase all the time. have a listen to this. >> we have the growth . well, a >> we have the growth. well, a working person, simon cowell, well , a working person, simon cowell, well, a working person is someone who works. they're living . i've got that. and, uses living. i've got that. and, uses our public services. the person ihave our public services. the person i have in mind when, when i, the person i have in my mind. nick, when i say working people is people who earn their living right. rely on our services, and don't really have the ability to write a check when they get into trouble . trouble. >> obviously, keir starmer's come under a lot of criticism for that because people have interpreted what he said there. luciano was basically saying, if you've got some savings, then we can't rule out what tax rises

for you because it's just mentioned, you know, there'll be no tax rises for the working person, but if a working person is not someone that's got a little bit of for money a rainy day in the bank, then they're not off limits, though when it comes to tax rises. >> i didn't interpret it in that way at all. i think there's a you know, first of all, there's the overwhelming majority of people in this country are living from paycheque to paycheque . that is the reality paycheque. that is the reality that they face, particularly in the cost of living crisis and massive increases in housing costs, be that from a mortgage. you know, we've seen interest rates stuck today or people that are paying ever out of reach rents. so the reality for most people is, is that that is not their circumstance. it is. and i think he was talking about people that kind of find themselves like suddenly you've got to like find like thousands of pounds for, it's certainly my interpretation . you know, when interpretation. you know, when you, when you've got to have like an urgent, like housing repair or something, most people in this country just don't have those reserves. so they've had to dip into those reserves or those savings because of the very dire economic circumstances they find themselves in, because

they're having to spend thousands of pounds on their energy bills, or just that £5,000 more. we're all spending since the last election on our food bills that we didn't have to pay before. that is the reality for people in this country, and that's the people he's talking about. >> am i wrong in thinking that you can even be eligible for some benefits in this country? if you've got up to £16,000 savings in the bank? have i made that figure up ? i don't think i that figure up? i don't think i have. that sounds about right. someone can fact check me on that if you want, but i am sure that if you want, but i am sure that i was reading the other day that i was reading the other day that you can have up to £16,000 in your bank and still be eligible for support from the welfare state. i mean, what do you think to that? and of course, if i'm wrong, get in touch and tell me. i'm sure you won't hesitate. but how did you interpret that working people thing? >> i think again, he's getting stuck on basic definitions. you know what? what is a woman? what's a working. you know what's a working person? all these kind of things that are relatively basic stuff. if you're setting out a vision for the country, you need to know what you're talking about in terms of who you're aiming your policy levers at. we had , you policy levers at. we had, you know, talking about giving tax

breaks to working people . we've breaks to working people. we've cut a lot of working people's national insurance by up to £900 tax break for these people . and tax break for these people. and yet, you know keir's moaning about that because it doesn't it doesn't affect pensions pensions. so actually you can't have it both ways. >> hold on. because you've taken yes you've cut someone's national insurance on the one hand whilst on the other hand freezing their tax threshold levels. so you've been pulled into fiscal drag . as people will into fiscal drag. as people will know. it's called the higher higher earners. >> the higher earners are people are being dragged into the higher tax bracket that shouldn't be. and i totally agree. >> that's nonsensical. and that's one of the issues that people have with the conservatives. you're supposed to be the party of the aspirational people or the strivers that want to work hard. you're supposed to be the party that lets you keep loads of your money and then when you're banging drums going, oh, we've taken off whatever it is, two pi or whatever it was, i can't remember now off national insurance, but simultaneously yanked you up into a different tax bracket. it is laughable. >> no, i think for those people it's still £900 is not to be sniffed at in terms of a but paul cut for their national insurance. i would like to see

tax thresholds , be increased. tax thresholds, be increased. it's something that i was lobbying the chancellor about for the last couple of budgets. it has become very expensive to undo because it's because it's lasted so long throughout covid, having shoved £408 billion out of the door when we wanted the money back, having supported jobs, livelihoods, businesses , jobs, livelihoods, businesses, etc. we have had that. we do have that challenge, but i would like to see that reversed and unravelled. i think there's two things to say. >> the first thing is, is that we've got the highest levels of taxation in this country in 70 years, and it's going to go up again. and well, and that's why labour's very clearly set out this lock around this triple lock to making sure that there isn't any rises in other national insurance or income tax or vat. i think the public deserves to hear that at a time when they've seen these tax levels increase and they haven't seen a return for it, you know, if we'd have had the same levels of growth in this country since 2010, we'd be £150 billion better off as a country. and i think that's particularly challenging. why you've then got a, you know, a government that's

spending the money and bringing it in, but not actually generating it. >> but that's happened across the europe as well. and of course, and indeed across the world. i think it's really only america out of the big the big economies that's actually growing. >> well, you at home, you will have a view as to whether or not you actually feel better off, irrespective of what levers have been pulled or not. do you feel better off or not? get in touch with me. let me know your thoughts. after the break. i want to ask you why are mps getting to the point now where they don't even attend hustings because of safety concerns, other parties doing enough to protect them

hi there. michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight alongside me, the former conservative mp paul scully and the former labour mp luciana berger. good evening and welcome back. i will just start this part by just sharing with you some very sad news that we've just heard about the actor donald sutherland. of course, you'll be familiar with

him. his career has spanned more than seven decades. well, he is very sadly died at the age of 88. many credits , to reference 88. many credits, to reference the dirty dozen in 1967, the, the dirty dozen in 1967, the, the war comedy mash in 1970, and of course, you'll probably know more recently from the hunger games films as well. very sad news, paul, isn't it? >> no, it is , it is. >> no, it is, it is. >> he's a guy that i always had a very striking voice and a very deep, striking voice and started playing baddies as he got older. the last scene in the invasion of the body snatchers was something that i do remember very, very clearly. very shocking. >> well , shocking. >> well, obviously his son, kiefer sutherland, he, has issued a statement on social media as well, announcing the passing of his father. he says, within this statement, he loved what he did, and he did what he loved. no one can ever ask for more. never a true word spoken there anyway. look, thoughts with all of his family, let's

move on. i want to talk to you about the hustings and whether or not mps are being kept as safe as they should be, or candidates being kept as safe as they should be during these periods, because , we've had one periods, because, we've had one conservative candidate. he had to leave the hustings, a couple of days ago because in the audience apparently were two people, that were on bail for harassing him .you've also had harassing him. you've also had the situation, in the labour party where you've had rosie duffield. she said that she isn't comfortable attending hustings. you had a labour, i think it was a lord, a labour peen he think it was a lord, a labour peer. he basically called her frit or lazy. i think it was. and he got into a lot of trouble for that. i'm talking about lord cashman. do you think the parties are doing enough to take care of their candidates? well i think it's a job largely for the police and the parliamentary authorities. >> there's something called plates, which operates from within parliament and whether people are candidates or, whether they're standing for re—election. i do think we need to be doing more, just generally

across the board to protect everyone. that's putting themselves forward and not just themselves, but their families, too. and we heard, in court yesterday, the story of the experience of the family of keir starmer and how they had experienced protests that had taken place outside his house and how that had impacted on his children as well. so i think for many different reasons, we should be doing more. you know, it wasn't it wasn't, it wasn't three years ago that we lost, sir david amess, an mp, and we've just commemorated the eighth anniversary of the death of jo cox . we have lost two mps of jo cox. we have lost two mps in this country. this isn't just like a, something, you in this country. this isn't just like a, something , you know, like a, something, you know, candidates not wanting to put themselves forward. there have been the most awful repercussions and people paying with their lives. so i do think we need to take it seriously. it's horrific that it comes to this, but that's the reality that unfortunately, we face. and i think the responsibility lies first and foremost with the police . police. >> yeah, i've got to say as well, nobody should be going to any politician's home. she just

mentioned keir starmer is one everyone will remember as well when people went into i think it was greenpeace, was it they went into rishi sunak's garden. do you remember that? was it greenpeace? i'm pretty sure i'm right there. they unfolded that big, that big banner. i can't remember what they were protesting about. it was appalling. what do you think? oh, no. i agree with luciana. >> i think it's very difficult for the parties to , to do much for the parties to, to do much more than they're doing. i do think they've got to be really careful as they're selecting candidates to remind candidates. you've got to be really robust in this. and it's not just the trust that we were talking about earlier on the show. it is about the febrile nature of, of politics at the moment, with, with social media. the police do a very good job in terms of what they do for sitting mps. i haven't obviously been in that position. what they've done with candidates and it's so people that are hosting hustings, whether it's churches or other organisations, they can't do it quite the same way they did it before. they've got to reflect the changes as well themselves and look for the police for a bit of advice . bit of advice. >> i do find this rosie duffield

situation slightly different. some of the other things that we've explained, because i feel personally that she has been massively let down by the likes of keir starmer. she has a very particular view , which in my particular view, which in my sense, in my opinion, is a very, not normal opinion. she believes in biological sex and she's very vocal about that. she believes in protecting single—sex spaces for women. i think those are very admirable things to be wanting, but actually i feel that she's not being supported in those opinions by her leader, keir starmer. >> well, i mean, i challenge i challenge that only because looking at the action that has been taken during this past week alone, so you mentioned the comments that were made by lord cashman . they were totally out cashman. they were totally out of order. and it's absolutely right that the party under keira's leadership took action, and he's gone for ages . but but and he's gone for ages. but but you talked about specifically what happened. and i'm actually i think it's important for your viewers to know what happened in

response to that, he took to twitter, made some beyond inappropriate comments. twitter, made some beyond inappropriate comments . yes, but inappropriate comments. yes, but particularly when we're talking in the context of mp safety and the labour party took action, he has been suspended . has been suspended. >> he has had because there's a general election campaign and they're trying to score. >> brown no no no no no no no no >> brown [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 >> brown 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 ho >> brown 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 ho >> brown 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 ho >> brown [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 ho >> brown [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 ho >> brown [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 ho >> brown [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 ho >> brown [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 [10 ho >> brown 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 110 ho i'ioi no no no no no no no no no i don't accept that at all. i don't accept that at all. i don't accept that at all. and particularly, particularly when this came for the labour party, this came for the labour party, this is an issue for all of the country. but we're having this conversation in the week where we have commemorated the eighth anniversary of the death of jo cox. this is something that kind of really, you know, really, really speaks to the core of people who have you have campaigned within the labour party or a member of the labour party. i remember exactly where i was as an mp, as a labour mp at the time, when we when we heard that story evolving. it will never leave me. it will never leave me. so i don't accept that. it's just because it's an election that the party took action. the party was right took action. the party was right to take action. it was swift action and it was done immediately and rightly so. and particularly even more so, because, you know, the timing in which it presents itself, not

the election, but because on sunday we remembered jo cox, who died and who was murdered eight years ago. >> that was in the middle of the referendum. yes campaign as well. but you're absolutely right in terms of the fact it doesn't matter what the party is, what the gender, it's actually although female mps do get it way, way, way worse, much more worse abuse than than male mps do. but it's just those two deaths, those two senseless deaths, those two senseless deaths of friends of ours, could have been any one of us in parliament. it's not that. it was those two as wonderful human beings as they were. it could have been us doing our job. absolutely. >> and maybe, like, you know, again, you write you. i say you rightly, unfortunately, because i've heard it from so many former male colleagues that it is women that disproportionately are affected . you know, i saw, are affected. you know, i saw, i saw i saw six people convicted dunng saw i saw six people convicted during my time as a member of for parliament the harassment and intimidation and death threats that they had directed towards me, four of whom served a prison sentence. and i count myself very lucky that nothing more serious happened because, you know, just for the people

that were, were identified and we were able to hold them to account, there was countless others who were anonymous and were not held to account. this is this is this is the environment in which we exist. >> hodges book file that she keeps of all her abuse. when i was passing the online safety bill, obviously this was a really at the heart of what we were trying to do for adults. so obviously it became a largely a child protection bill. but obviously while we were protecting free speech, we wanted to make sure we could tackle some of those. >> you could get rid of so much onune >> you could get rid of so much online abuse in an instant. if you stopped social media companies allowing anonymous accounts. yeah, i, i really believe that. i really believe that. >> funnily enough, i had some of the big, online companies chief execs saying to me, actually, the evidence was sort of mixed on that. so it's often the abuse is coming from people who are named, ironically , sometimes named, ironically, sometimes it's the keyboard warrior thing. they're not hiding necessarily behind an anonymous title. they're just sitting there thinking it's almost like road rage . you're sitting there rage. you're sitting there thinking, not realising there's another person at the end of

this. >> everybody needs to be better because at the end of the day, we do live in a democracy and we are allowed to have different political opinions. we're allowed to support different political parties. that is part of being in a free society. and personally, i want it to remain in that way. we've certainly got different opinions in terms of our views about how keir starmer is treated. rosie duffield i stand by my view that i think it's been appalling, and i think they've let that lady down. you guys at home will have very strong opinions on that. get in touch and let me know your thoughts after the break. pfisons thoughts after the break. prisons it's a mess right now. releasing people when i would argue we absolutely shouldn't be because we've got no capacity . because we've got no capacity. how do we fix this then? which is the party to get it all sorted once and for all? you tell me

hello, everyone. i'm michelle dewberry with your tool seven. the former conservative mp paul scully and the former labour mp

luciana berger remain alongside me. let's talk prison , shall we? me. let's talk prison, shall we? because apparently in the uk, they are 98% full and they're going to be in a so—called crisis mode by july. we've had lots of conversations, haven't we, about people potentially being released early and so on and so forth. you're supposed to be the party of law and order. you've completely made a hash of all this. >> i think it's something that we've not tackled. over a period of time. because actually, if you're going to build prisons , you're going to build prisons, you're going to build prisons, you can't just do that overnight , and so we have to come up with another solution for the next five years, because actually, you know, we can start the process of building prisons, but crikey, we can't even build enough homes because people don't want people next to them, never mind prisoners. next to them. so, you know, think about nimbyism is going to kick off in terms of planning around around you. but this is what i'm saying . strategy. so this is what i'm saying. because what is what is what is actually doing what it is actually doing is it's meaning that people are having to reopen old custody suites to have prisoners in police

stations rather than actually in prisons. so it is affecting overall, services, police services as well as the justice service. now, what we need to do, i think, is twofold. what happened over the last ten years is we had a bit of a debate within the party, the fact that when rory stewart was actually talking about when he was prisons minister, how you actually allow people to, to rehabilitate, rehabilitate themselves and shorter sentences for the lower, lower offences than people, the right kicked back against that. and it means that just got kicked into the long grass. it never got solved. and now we're pushing against capacity and now it's becoming a reactive thing rather than a responsive thing. >> and this isn't a new story. this is i mean, i've followed prisons, particularly around prisons, particularly around prison health, for a number of years. and we've and we've had this we've known that this has been an issue. it's why the government identified that we needed 20,000 more places in our in our prisons. needed 20,000 more places in our in our prisons . we've had in our prisons. we've had previous conservative manifestos say that we're going to have these extra prison places. the money's been allocated for these

extra prison places. and yet we see all this chaos because none of these places have been built. it's a massive, massive issue. and it might be that, you know, people don't like prisons on their doorsteps and issues around planning. i think it's right that the labour party have said that they're going to determine prisons as of national importance. so the control would be in the hands of ministers, not in terms not in the hands of local planning authorities. i think that would make a massive difference to start doing something from day one. the other biggest issue is around reoffending, and we know that 80% of offending happens is when people are reoffending. nothing has been done to address this very, very serious issue. people that keep committing crimes and, you know, essentially on this revolving door again , i feel revolving door again, i feel like we've been talking about this since, you know, like we're blue in the face for since i first came into parliament in 2010, when we saw a reduction of 20,000 police officers in this country, our whole criminal justice system is a complete disarray of re—offending. >> if you keep people for comparatively smaller crimes.

and i'm not being, you know, we shouldn't be soft. i mean, shoplifting is a really good example of someone that actually because they don't investigate and worry about shoplifters that are , shoplifting less than £200, are, shoplifting less than £200, well, that's an economic choice. i'll just go and shoplift £150 then. that's not right. we shouldn't allow that to happen. but nonetheless, if we're putting people in prison for longer, longer periods of time, then they're actually starting to learn their crimes. they're getting better at it. so the reoffending rates that you're talking about, you're absolutely right, won't come down if you're just shoving people in. >> can i just cut to the chase? do you concede then, that the tories have failed on again, one of the one of their core tenets, which is supposed to be, you know, tough on law and order and everything. do you concede that they've failed on that or that you've failed on that? >> what i'm saying is that we haven't built the prices in time over a period of time. and now bearin over a period of time. and now bear in mind, so you do concede what i'm saying. you've got to start somewhere. it's the same with when we're trying to build. but you didn't when we're trying to build nuclear power stations, for example, we're trying to do this under the coalition

government. we were being pulled from from pillar to coalition for ten years. i know, but that's where that's how long it takes to build new prisons. you can do things on prison places. you can do things in prison places and actually start to run. >> but the labour party has identified the labour party is identified the labour party is identified at a very quick way in which we can make a difference and get those prisons built very quickly. it's about determining prisons as as buildings of national importance. >> we'll still have to build those and years to build. >> that's what i'm saying. so what are we going to do now? what are we going to do in the here and now, to actually to actually tackle this, this is, this is the but this is like we've been talking about the, the crisis and it has been a crisis . crisis. >> you know, i left parliament in 2019. it was a crisis in 2019. we're like four years down the line. and still like we're at the point in which we understand that cobra might be meeting to discuss it, because it's such a serious issue when they're already letting people out. do you know what it is? it's an affront to victims in this country. people who have gone through that whole legal process, who have had to go to court for the crimes committed against them, and yet they're now seeing people let out early, or we're seeing this whole stasis where people can't even

be convicted because we don't have the spaces in our courts that we've just been saying about keir starmer not being straight about the council tax and tax rises. >> i don't know why you you're not being straight because i'm asking you, have you failed? the tories have failed on their law and order kind of key plank of who they're supposed to be. and then you're telling me , oh, then you're telling me, oh, well, if you go back to the coalition and do you concede that you've failed? >> and i said, there's more. i said, there's more we can do because actually, when we had the prisons minister about, 2017, something like that, when rory stewart was prison minister, he was trying to change how you sentence people. but actually the right of the party was saying, no, actually, you've got to bang everybody up. the, the he was seen as being really soft on crime. and actually what he was doing was trying to tackle reoffending rates in the same way that luciano was suggesting. and so because we couldn't have that existential argument and get what we wanted to do right, we haven't ended up doing it. then you get covid, then you get other pressures, external pressures on that. but we've not been we've not been able to achieve that. does it mean that we're not the party of law and order? no. absolutely not. we

are still the party of law order. >> because if you look at what we look at, you listening to that we've done over a long period. >> but if you look over a long penod >> but if you look over a long period of time, we have all these pressures on at the moment. but we still want to do what we do as a fundamental conservative party, put more policemen on the street, making sure that we can have more robust men, but we police people, we now have in parts of london, my part of london, where i was an mp, i've got a record amount of police there at the moment. and so we've, we've started to recruit more policemen. but it's the other end of it that we're struggling with is let people down, because the core things that you're supposed to be is conservatives, which is tough on law and order, you know, low on taxes, all the rest of it. >> you've turned all of that inside out and delivered the complete opposite. i don't have time to get on to my next question, which was, for the life of me, i can't fathom why we seem to have so many foreign criminals in our prison population because surely if we're out of out of space and we're out of out of space and we're at capacity , why wouldn't we're at capacity, why wouldn't we're at capacity, why wouldn't we be fast tracking, deporting people back to their home countries? look, we've run out

of time because that is a whole new subject in itself. but for now, thank you very much for your company. thank you for yours too. and thank you to each and every one of you at home that chose to watch dewbs& co tonight. i have no idea what the score is, i did, i miss a good match. i don't know, who cares? it's been way more fun here. apparently it's won all. how bonng apparently it's won all. how boring is that? don't go anywhere, though, because camilla tom and ellie is up next. and i'll see you tomorrow night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar , sponsors of weather on . solar, sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> good evening . welcome to your >> good evening. welcome to your latest weather update from the met office on gb news. most places will have a fine start tomorrow. plenty of sunshine , tomorrow. plenty of sunshine, but a change on the way in the west as things start to cloud over with outbreaks of rain courtesy of a couple of weather systems and a couple of areas of low pressure pushing away the high pressure that's brought

most of us a fine day today. still very pleasant out there this evening. the main exception to that being western scotland . to that being western scotland. as the rain is trickling in here, some of that rain could turn a bit heavy as we go through the night, but for most it's a dry night. clear skies will allow a little bit of mist and fog to form and turn quite chilly over parts of eastern england, down to single figures for parts of east anglia and the south east, certainly in the countryside. so a coolish start here, but any mist and fog will soon disappear and then generally it's going to be another fine day across the midlands, east anglia and the south east. plenty of sunshine soon starting to lift the temperatures , but a cloudier day temperatures, but a cloudier day for wales and southwest england. quite a cloudy start for northern ireland, with some outbreaks of rain here and a bit of a damp start in western scotland as well. much of northern england, much of eastern scotland. dry and fine, but a lot of cloud and some outbreaks of rain and drizzle over the northern isles too . over the northern isles too. it's further west, though, where we've got this weather front moving in, bringing more in the way of persistent rain that will cloud things over across all of northern ireland by lunchtime, and patchy rain edging in here

through the afternoon. further rain to come at times across western scotland. a few showers developing across wales and southwest england to still some brightness possible here, but definitely the brightest, sunniest weather over central and eastern parts and the warmest weather as well. 2324 whereas in the west it will feel a bit cooler than today because of the cloud and the rain leaving some showers around dunng leaving some showers around during saturday over parts of eastern england. another weather front coming into the northwest but between again, many places set fair on saturday. a brighter day for wales and as we go through the weekend into the early part of next week in particular, it is going to get quite a bit warmer. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather

gb news. way. >> good evening and welcome to

vote 2024 the people's decide with me. camilla tominey coming up on tonight's show, we're going to be discussing england's . well, i would say a draws a draw, but fairly disappointing performance against denmark with big sam allardyce. we're also going to be speaking about the tory election betting scandal . tory election betting scandal. could things get any worse for rishi sunak? and i'll be taking on a just stop oil protester after that attack on planes at stansted . stansted. we'll also be joined by government minister covid kevin hollinrake and shadow paymaster general jonathan ashworth , as general jonathan ashworth, as polls predict a tory wipe—out at the general election in just two weeks time. do get in touch with your thoughts on tonight's topics by visiting gbnews.com/yoursay but first, here's the news with polly middlehurst .