the series. today we bring you the prime minister. >> well, having an election based on trust and what you'll do in the future, you haven't cut migration. >> well, i've been prime minister for 18 months, chris. >> and let's have a party. forgive me. your party.7 >> he was slightly tetchy when pushed on the tories record on immigration. >> you lose your seat next week? >> you lose your seat next week? >> no, of course i'm. i'm fighting very hard everywhere. >> and as you saw, there is not quite sure he can retain his seat. >> what did you think about that remark about you personally? yeah. look, he should answer what he means by that . what he means by that. >> there he was asking nigel farage to explain himself. well, with me to discuss this, we have voices from each of the three major political parties. we've got a cracking show lined up tonight. but first, here's the . news. >> thank you. camilla, i'm polly middlehurst with the latest gb news and the top story. one person in england has died in the ongoing e.coli ii outbreak,

which is linked to salad. that's according to the uk health security agency. it comes after a recent outbreak which saw 86 people admitted to hospital, to according figures released from last week, a number of food manufacturers have had to recall their pre—made sandwiches, wraps and salads sold in all major supermarkets and retail chains over fears they're linked to possible contamination, and they've narrowed it down to lettuce being linked to these infections . sir lettuce being linked to these infections. sir keir lettuce being linked to these infections . sir keir starmer infections. sir keir starmer says a labour government would work with whoever is in power in france on tackling illegal migrant journeys across the engush migrant journeys across the english channel from france, sir keir starmer and rishi sunak returned to the campaign trail today after clashing last night at nottingham trent university, where they were in debate over illegal immigration and the betting row. in a tv special, the prime minister says the country would be in danger, though under a labour government being led by a leader who he said has no plan to stop the

boats. >> here, starmer changes his mind on almost every major position that he has taken and times that we're living in, you need leadership which has the courage of its convictions . courage of its convictions. that's what i have. you have to ask yourself why is he not telling you his plan for the country? what he wants to do? because he probably doesn't think they're going to like it when you hear it, right? we know, as you saw last night, those of you that were watching the debate, absolutely no answers about how to tackle immigration, right? i've got a plan. we're bringing immigration down. we've got a plan to stop the boats. he would make us the soft touch of europe when it comes to that issue. >> well, sir keir starmer dismissed that, telling us @gbnews that the issue of illegal migration, he said, is much more than just borders. >> record numbers of people are coming here in small boats. he's lost control of our borders , lost control of our borders, literally lost control. not only of the numbers that are coming, but also who's coming. and so this is not just a border issue. it's a national security issue.

the deterrent is smashing the gangs that are running this vile trade so that nobody , but nobody trade so that nobody, but nobody gets into a boat to cross the channel the prime minister is simply interested in a gimmick, the rwanda scheme for people who've already arrived here, a few hundred people. >> sir keir starmer , now the >> sir keir starmer, now the former newcastle united owner, sir john hall, has switched his sirjohn hall, has switched his support to reform uk after previously donating tens of thousands of pounds to the conservative party. he was cheered on at a reform speech near sunderland today, where the party leader, nigel farage, was speaking in front of an audience. mr farage saying it was a privilege to welcome sir john into the reform family and saying he'd made a substantial donation to the party's campaign . he said he feels the tories have let him down. >> the conservative party has let me down. there have been a failure for the last many years for the last 14 years, and they don't speak now, for my english

is my a way of life which i feel is my a way of life which i feel is under threat. and i looked around basically who i could find to support, to speak for me and the reform party. i feel and i feel it's the only ones who are going to speak and about, saving my english culture. >> sirjohn hall, who switched >> sir john hall, who switched his political report to reform uk . those are the latest gb news uk. those are the latest gb news headlines. for now, i'm polly middlehurst. i'm back in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone , sign direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com >> forward slash alerts . >> forward slash alerts. >> forward slash alerts. >> thanks, polly. well, welcome to the third interview in our vote 2024. the leaders interview series. earlier today, our gb news political editor christopher hope, spoke to the prime minister, rishi sunak. >> prime minister, thank you for joining gb news in a pub in nottingham today. great to see you. >> thank you chris, thanks for having me back.

>> good to see you. week six of a six week campaign. you are definitely up for the fight in that debate last night. where's that debate last night. where's that rishi sunak been for the past five weeks or is it always been there? >> it's always been there. and you know what? when you're fighting for what you believe in, it's easy. and that's what i'm doing in this campaign. i think the choice facing the country is incredibly important. i get that people have some frustrations with me, with our party, but this isn't a by—election, right? this is a choice about the future of our country. it's going to have enormous consequences for everyone, their family, their finances. i don't want to see people subject to labour's tax rises, so i'm fighting very hard to say. give me the opportunity to say. give me the opportunity to keep cutting your taxes, building all the progress we made. that's a choice i want people to focus on. that's what you saw last night at the debate. and it worked. >> apparently, according to the pollsters say it did bring back some people who were against you to be more in favour of voting tory. >> so i think look what people saw last night is, is keir starmer just saw last night is, is keir starmerjust does not have starmer just does not have a plan for government on the economy, no answers on immigration, absolutely no answers. >> nine times you asked him on it, he can't tell you what he's

going to do. >> i've got a very clear plan for what i'm going to do with illegal migrants. they don't get to stay in our country. they should be removed. he can't tell you what he's going to do on welfare. yep. the guy thinks that you can't make a penny of savings from the welfare budget. that's just clearly not right. that's just clearly not right. that's why i want to build on the progress we've made. cut people's taxes, and last night, people's taxes, and last night, people could see the choice very clearly. >> we'll come to those areas in a minute. you use the word surrender 17 times. is that a loaded word? is that to appeal to reform uk voters? by the way, the word surrender i don't want people to surrender to labour. >> i don't want them to surrender to their tax rises. i don't want people to surrender our borders to labour, our welfare system to labour, our national security, to labour. right. i'm up for the fight. i want people to join me in that fight. like we should not surrender our country to this, right? we can do better. we can continue labour the enemy. >> then you're surrendering to an enemy, is that right? what do you mean by i think? >> look, i get that people have frustrations. i get that last years has not been easy. i'm not saying we've got everything

right. i completely understand that. but this is really important. this election, if labour are in power, they'll have a blank check to do whatever they want. that means put up your taxes, reverse all the changes i made to get us to net zero in a sensible way. reverse all the progress we've made on illegal migration. release everyone out on our streets. not on planes. but this is the choice facing people. it's really important. i don't want people to sleepwalk into the 4th of july. they should not sleepwalk into this. people have got to wake up to the danger that a labour government means for our country. i don't want that to happen. that's why i'm fighting so hard. so keir, a bit unprepared for the attacks, the way you were going, going after him a bit, getting in his face. >> why was that? is he. why do you think that was? i mean, this is a question. >> question for him, right. but i'm clear about what i want to do. and this is why i keep saying about him, this is a guy who can't tell you what he wants to do. if he's prime minister, he wants to have the most important job in our country. he can't even tell you what he would do with it. and on any position that he has taken in the last few years, he changes

his mind five seconds later. that's not leadership. i could tell you in the uncertain times that we live in, the things you have to grapple with as prime minister. if you don't have the courage of your convictions, right. if you constantly change your mind, if you're not straight with people about what you want to do, you cannot lead right? and that is the difference between him and me. i'm clear. i get that not everyone is going to agree with me about absolutely everything, but at least you know where i stand. that's what leadership is about. and he just does not display that. and that's what you saw last night. >> we stood by robert blackstock that a member of the public who asked a question saying you are asked a question saying you are a pretty mediocre prime minister. >> well, i think also apparently he gave some comments afterwards to the media saying you couldn't trust a word that keir starmer says and that he was going to vote conservative, i think. but look, i think he's not decided yet when he talks gb news last night, the choice for people is vote conservative. have your taxes cut, have migration dealt with, get to net zero in a sensible way, and crucially, have your pension protected or are the opposite of all of that with the labour party, right? if you vote for anyone else, that's what you're going to get. you're going to get higher taxes. our borders aren't going to be secure. we're not going to invest more in our national defence. and for the first time

in our country's history, pensioners are going to pay tax on their retirement income, on their pension, right. that is a clear choice for people. if you're a pensioner watching this show, you need to understand that if keir starmer is your prime minister, the state pension is going to be subject to income tax for the first time in our country's history, a retirement tax is coming. capital r capital t, i don't think that's right. i don't think that's right. i don't think that's right. i don't think that's fair. that's why we're going to institute the triple lock plus. right. that's my desire to help pensioners. keir starmer last night couldn't say he'd do the same thing. and again the choice is clear for everyone. >> wasn't he going to the heart of a of a problem with you personally though that you seem to be good at spreadsheets and good at kind of calculations , good at kind of calculations, but less good at the politics, the raw politics. >> yeah, this is about the type of country you want to build, right? tax cuts are not about spreadsheets. tax cuts are about the fact that i believe people work really hard and they should get to keep more of their own hard earned money. that's the type of country i believe in. that's the values that i believe. i believe in a country that's aspirational. right? if you work hard and you save so that you can have a better retirement if you want to buy

your own home, i think those are all good things. if you want to set up a business and become self—employed, i think those are all things that the government should be supporting by cutting your taxes on those things so your taxes on those things so you can keep more of your own money. that's why we want to aboush money. that's why we want to abolish national insurance for the self—employed. that's why we want to abolish stamp duty effectively for first time buyers, young couples getting on the housing ladder. that's why we will support families by expanding child benefit . like expanding child benefit. like these are all tax cuts that speak to my values and my values are about supporting people's hard work, supporting their aspiration. >> but britain is largely, largely shrugging at what you're saying. if you look at the polls, the poll last night from the mrp, from electoral calculus found that you might have as few as 660 mps next week. and you'll say they only only poll matters next thursday. don't say it. please don't say it. but you know, you've been you've you've gifted labour supermajority by going early on the election campaign. >> i the only poll that does matter is on the 4th of july. right. and but what i'd say is, look, if those polls that you're talking about right end up happening on polling day, that means handing labour a blank cheque. blank cheque ? you can't

cheque. blank cheque? you can't get it back. but i'd say to everyone watching that those polls aren't destiny, right? people watching can make the difference. >> and you can turn around and 20 poll poll point lead for the laboun >> there's other research shows it's something like 150,000 voters in key places will make the difference. those are the people that will be watching, right? if you're watching this show right now , you can make the show right now, you can make the difference. i get people's frustrations with me, with the party. we haven't got everything right. i know that we haven't made as much progress as we would have liked, but this is an important election about your future. do you do not want labourin future. do you do not want labour in charge with that blank check to do what they want to your family finances? go out there, vote conservatives so we can stop that from happening. >> regretted for a single moment. going early. you could have waited until november. we all thought you were waiting until november. net migration will come down in september. you may have two interest rate cuts, might say growing economy, other factors, and nato summit. you'll look great in washington. 2.5% of gdp. blenheim summit of the eu. all these things you've given away. >> we have all those things, the

economy growing faster than all our major competitors, bank them and then get the inflation back to target right wages rising faster than prices. right. mortgage rates starting to come down. right. we have the foundations and we're already starting to cut people's taxes. so this is the moment for our country to choose its future. and the future that i want people to have is one where their taxes continue to be cut. i don't want them subject to labour's thousands of pounds worth of tax rises that are coming everyone's way. mark my words , your pension, your home, words, your pension, your home, your council tax, your car, you name it, labour are going to tax it. it's in their dna. keir starmer is not being straight with people about that. their taxes are going to go up if he's in power. you talk about the nato summit again clear contrast here, right. if i'm everyone's prime minister i go to that nato summit increasing our defence spending to 2.5% of gdp, because this is the most dangerous time our country has faced in decades. we need to keep people safe. we need to get our allies to invest more. keir starmer is your prime minister. he goes to that nato summit. what's the first thing he's done? cut

defence spending. >> well, that's not matching. he wants to get there. he won't say when or how. >> it's not matching our pledge. that means defence spending is going to go down from the plans that we've got in place, which are already happening with more money going to the armed forces. it's going to be at the back of the room. but what does that do? what message does that send to our adversaries, to china, to nonh our adversaries, to china, to north korea, to russia, iran? here's a new prime minister who says, no, no, i don't think it's important to invest more in our country's defence. i am deeply worried about what that means. people should be deeply concerned. >> lord cameron was recorded by maybe by russians or somebody saying that labour will be as keen on backing ukraine as the tories have been. >> well, as we've seen , one >> well, as we've seen, one person and i, labour, have supported what we're doing on ukraine, where we have led, but they won't be able to continue doing it at the levels that i have said that we will because they're not investing more in our defence. >> how's the polling in your own seat? will you lose your seat next week? >> no, of course i'm i'm fighting very hard everywhere. >> mrp say again. >> mrp say again. >> look, i it's a great privilege to be a member of parliament or have been the member of parliament for richmond. and now richmond and

northallerton is the seat is called in north yorkshire. i very much hope i have the opportunity to continue doing that right. and as i was out campaigning just the other day and i'll be back there as well, and i'll be back there as well, and my family are all out there campaigning out there, they are as they always are. my parents are there as they are there every election. so they're all they're all at it . they're all at it. >> chris hope, thoroughly enjoying himself there, interviewing the prime minister interviewing the prime minister in a pub, it seems. well, let's get into the detail of all that with my superstar cross—party panel with my superstar cross—party panel. i've got former liberal democrat mark oaten, i've got the labour peer morris glassman, and i've got the conservative peer and journalist paul goodman. lovely to see you. this evening, gents. let's start with you, paul. i mean, has he been freebasing weetabix fighting talk from the prime minister, many watching that and indeed watching the debate last night might be asking themselves why on earth he didn't start the campaign in this fine fettle , campaign in this fine fettle, because he's speaking more aggressively . he's unrelentingly aggressively. he's unrelentingly attacking labour. he sounds like he's full of vim and vigour. the

only trouble is 6 million people have already voted paul by post tv interviews of this kind. >> actually, rather like our discussion have an element of artificiality, which is that if you talk to any of the tories in private and indeed tory ministers are going into the newspapers and the media saying we're going to lose. but he can't say that in a tv interview. so actually he was there trying to make his case, whereas actually the real case the tories are trying to make at the tories are trying to make at the moment is labour are going to win by a landslide. don't give them a landslide because you don't really want to. but it wasn't a case that he could really make. he had to set out his stall and do his best, although he did attack keir starmer repeatedly. >> maurice so let's just remind ourselves of some of those attack lines , that if you vote attack lines, that if you vote for labour, he's just going to write a blank cheque. don't surrender. you're going to sleepwalk into a labour super majority when taxes are in labour's dna, your pension, your house, your car , they're all house, your car, they're all going to be taxed. oh, and by the way, your pension, maurice. >> oh it's pathetic. i mean, it

really is pathetic. it's really heating. >> are you ruling out tax cuts for labour then? >> no, i'm just saying this is all his whole stuff is reheated. thatcherism. he doesn't. he's a politician incapable of adjusting to the new age. >> he raises a point, doesn't he? because we know what labour won't tax. they won't tax working people whatever that means. but in order to pay for their spending. >> no idea what that means. >> no idea what that means. >> well, does it mean millionaires? because presumably they work ? they work? >> well, some do, and some are rentiers who just make a lot of money out of property and not doing anything. >> but you do understand that people are wondering what labour are going to do to afford their spending pledges. they'll have to tax something. >> one of the gifts of rishi sunakis >> one of the gifts of rishi sunak is that he's left a space where labour really doesn't have to say too much at all because of the incredibly hopeless nature. >> you're shaking your head at that mark of this government, despair. >> no, i despair because if the best that you can do is to not inspire by just saying nothing, thatis inspire by just saying nothing, that is really pathetic. >> frankly, no . >> frankly, no. >> frankly, no. >> there's one thing i want to see. >> inspiration. i'll give tony blair something. back in 97, there was hope, there was

energy. it was a fresh beginning. starmer is so dull and so cautious that it's not inspiring. you're going to win, but there's no great enthusiasm out there for it. >> we're not just going to win, we're going to we're going to win very well because the tories are so bad, but not because of enthusiasm for starmer. >> and that's that's a shame. >> and that's that's a shame. >> something that yeah, there's something that rishi sunak said thatis something that rishi sunak said that is really wrong, which is i'm involved in this. labour is absolutely committed to defence and the defence of ukraine. >> will he equal that 22.5% of gdp pledge? >> then i can say yes. i mean that's already being talked about. >> and what's that going to be paid for. >> well, in the same way the tories are going to pay for it. that's that's there. >> but you've accused them of putting taxes up or at least they would if they win government again. so at some point . and the institute for point. and the institute for fiscal studies has pointed this out, maurice , and this applies out, maurice, and this applies to all of the parties, these manifestos are flimsy because they're not fully costed , they're not fully costed, because, as i say, we know what labour won't tax , but we don't labour won't tax, but we don't know what they will. so are you

able to rule out taxes on your pension, your home and your car? >> i don't think any serious politician come out because because of events . this is not because of events. this is not the i mean, that's part of the problem. what i would say is labouris problem. what i would say is labour is astonishingly fiscally conservative. that's one of the things that means that they can't win on that statement. >> i see it's a strange old election because on the one hand, the institute of fiscal studies obviously it's got a point. there are these huge election issues, demographic change, ageing, population, mass migration. but if the parties deal with them in a straightforward way, which would mean being far more open about spending cuts and tax rises, we, the commentariat journalists like you would be all over them and that's been the paradox or the central situation of this election. it's being fought out on a very narrow ground, and voters know intuitively there are tax rises coming and spending cuts. i mean , whoever wins. >> mark, you made that point

about which kind of echoed what nigel farage said about starmer, that he was blair without the flair . do you that he was blair without the flair. do you agree with that, maurice? i mean, he's not quite got the blair effect. it's not like there are people in the streets going, i can't wait for a starmer government. is it government? by default? >> and that's what i mean. i agree, i agree with, with paul that, it's extraordinary the extent to which the conservatives have lost their political direction. and part of it is also, you know, taxes and this, this is, this is, you know, how are we going to build an industrial strategy, i think how are we going to start making things again? and i think that's related to the defence spending. mark. mark. >> and then we'll have to there is huge dissatisfaction with politics. >> and that's one of the reasons reform will do so well. and part of the blame lies at the labour party for not infusing people. >> why aren't the lib dems? >> why aren't the lib dems? >> well, i think we're doing rather well. i think we're going to do very well indeed. i wish we'd be more honest about taxation to be honest. yeah. >> i mean, what i'm saying is

you're not the beneficiary of the reform insurgency, though, thank goodness, because we wouldn't want those votes, frankly. yes. you're a great party. >> you're great at some of the reform people that thought, i have to read out the candidates for richmond and northallerton, because the prime minister mentioned that he was standing as a candidate there. >> rishi sunak is there for the conservatives. would you believe jason barnett is there as the independent count binface? he's there for the count binface party. daniel callaghan is there for the liberal democrats. angie campion is there as an independent. louise dickens is there for the workers party of britain . kevin foster is there britain. kevin foster is there for the greens. rio goldhammer is there for the yorkshire party. niko omilana is there as an independent. brian richmond is another independent. sir archibald stanton is there for the monster raving loony party and lee taylor is there for reform . and let's not forget tom reform. and let's not forget tom wilson, who's standing for laboun wilson, who's standing for labour. well, thank you very much to my panel. i'll speak to you all again shortly because i know you've got to say. up next, it's going to be the second part of

welcome back to vote 2024. the leaders with me . camilla leaders with me. camilla tominey. just before the break, we heard the first part of our interview with the prime minister. rishi sunak. let's now take a listen to part two. >> cutting row was cut through. i've got to ask you about it. how does it feel to you when your friend craig. craig williams admitted putting a bet on i was, i was incredibly angry. >> i was incredibly angry. he's a friend of yours, right? an ally of yours i was to when i learned about all of this. i was furious, like everyone. everyone would be furious. furious, like everyone. everyone would be furious . you know, the would be furious. you know, the idea that people would do something like that is just the antithesis of what public service is all about, right? that's why i was so angry . and that's why i was so angry. and that's why we initiated our own internal inquiries alongside the independent gambling commission investigation that is happening. and that's why i've taken action. and when we, you know, reached a point where we had the information, we acted, and i've

suspended the two parliamentary candidates, and i've also been crystal clear. if someone has broken the rules, not only should they face the full force of the law and the consequences of the law and the consequences of that, i will make sure that they are booted out of the conservative party and there's no no further candidates affected. >> there's rumours of 15, as many as 15. look, as far as you know, i'm not aware of that. >> and as i said, when we are made aware of things, we will initiate our own internal inquiries. i don't obviously have details of the gambling commission's inquiries. they don't report to me there rightly i >> -- >> but you're doing an internal inquiry in the party. >> that's the right and proper thing to do, right? >> so your internal investigations have found no other cases so far. >> i'm not i'm not aware of any. when we are made aware, we will conduct as we have done and i've acted, i've dealt with it. we've got the information, we've suspended the candidates. and i'm crystal clear that that's my approach to these things, to do things properly and rigorously. but where where there's reason to believe that something is inappropriate, i will take action as i've done. we've suspended these candidates and everyone who's broken the law should face the full consequences. >> zero neatly summarise for some people, maybe in labour says so that you've forgotten

the privilege of being in office, that people take it for granted. they're taking punts on information they hear internally. allegedly. yeah, well, look , i mean, let me tell well, look, i mean, let me tell you why i'm in this, right? >> my grandparents were very fortunate to be able to come to this country with all very much. two generations later, i'm sitting here with you , as i have sitting here with you, as i have done many times, with the enormous privilege of being this country's prime minister and also before the election, a member of parliament in north yorkshire . and it's hard to yorkshire. and it's hard to express for me like just what a debt of gratitude i owe to our country and how i feel about it. and that's why i love our country so deeply. what it's done for my family. i don't think my story would be possible in any other country, and that's why i'm in this, because of what this country has done for me and i feel an enormous sense of gratitude and duty to do everything i can in this job, to make as many people's lives better as i can. and that is why i'm fighting so hard in this election. and yes, as you said, look, it's tough and all the rest of it, but i believe that this election is so important for people's futures. i don't

want them to allow their frustrations with some of the things in the past. let them and the present and the present and let them sleep, walk into something that is going to be so damaging for their family's financial security. it's time to ban. that is the choice. >> is it time to ban politicians from betting on politics like footballers can't bet on footballers can't bet on football when people are cheating at gambling, it is illegal. >> we have laws against that. the gambling commission investigate people who they suspect of doing that, and they should do that. and people who cheat at gambling should face the full consequences of the law. >> let's looking at policies briefly on two quick policies on tax . do you worry, though, that tax. do you worry, though, that part of the problems with maybe on tax is things you said in 2019 you haven't delivered back in 2019, you were elected on a pledge not only to freeze taxes, but to cut them to now you've cut national insurance, but you've frozen those thresholds . you've frozen those thresholds. so doctors and nurses pay more in tax. so you say one thing and you do something else, and that's why you maybe got a problem with connecting with people. >> no. look, i think everyone recognises we had a pandemic. yeah. right. and then we had a war in ukraine, everyone's energy bills. it was right that

we supported the country through that. nhs furlough helped with energy bills and it's entirely reasonable. and i was straight about it at the time. we would have to start paying that back because that's the sensible thing to do. it might be difficult for people to hear, but that's type of leader. i am. i want to be straight with people about the things that are right for our country, but we are now cutting people's taxes. and actually, if you look at the taxes that someone in work is paying taxes that someone in work is paying today, it is lower. with all the changes we've made, they're paying less tax than they're paying less tax than they would have done in 2019. right. so it is lower. so that is just the reality. when you put all those things together, they're paying hundreds of pounds less tax than they would. right. because of the cuts that we're now making to national insurance in particular, worth £900 for everyone in work this yeah £900 for everyone in work this year. big issue for gb news viewers is immigration. >> back in 2019, you said you would fix the immigration system. there'll be fewer lower skilled migrants, and overall numbers will come down. they haven't, have they? and there's you're having an election based on trust and what you'll do in the future. you haven't cut migration. >> well, i've been prime minister for 18 months, chris, and let's have a party. forgive me your party, but i've been prime minister for immigration

was too high. i'm not going to pretend otherwise of course it was too high. been very clear about that. i've been your prime minister everyone's prime minister everyone's prime minister for 18 months. in that time, we've taken significant action. net migration was down last year. the first full year i was in office. and this year, thanks to the reforms that i've put in place, the number of visas we've issued is down by 30. that has never happened . so, 30. that has never happened. so, for example, we raised the salary that you have to earn to come to here work to 38.5 grand, tightened up our other visas 30% down. and do you know what it's forecast to come down by its forecast to come down by its forecast net migration to halve in the next 12 months. half right because of the measures that i have taken, we are getting migration down and we will go further. if i'm re—elected, we will have a legal cap voted on in parliament every yeah cap voted on in parliament every year. what is a guarantee? well, that's for parliamentarians. >> 10,000 even realistic anymore given all the trust that people have on this, the first thing is to deliver what is forecast, which is to halve it. >> and just like i said, i would halve inflation. we over delivered on that. first we're going to halve net migration and then we're going to reduce it

every year thanks to a legal cap on migration. now again, the choice for everyone is me or keir starmer. i'm the person that's got the number of visas issued down 30. this year. i'm the person where the forecasts show net migration is going to halve. i'm the person that will give you a legal cap on migration, voted on in parliament every year to guarantee that it keeps falling. keir starmer is someone who, when he stood for the labour leadership, wrote a letter. right? he in that letter he promised to defend free movement of people. he he said we should close the detention centres for illegal migrants, which closed them down. he boasted about getting migrants more welfare. right. and that's why you simply can't trust him on this issue. do not surrender our borders to the illegal numbers. >> 50,000 on your watch. illegal, illegal arrivals? >> not actually. if you look at the last 12 months, they're down on the 12 months before that. >> before year before is how you cut it. but 50,000 is a lot. >> but they are down and we have made progress. but the job is not done in order to get the job done, you need a deterrent. you need to make it crystal clear to people if they come here illegally, they won't be able to stay. they'll be removed. now,

you've seen in the last week that look, talk to the illegal migrants in calais themselves. what are they all saying? they all saying, look, i'm not going to come right now. i'm waiting for this rwanda scheme to be scrapped. if the other law get in. right. as i said, they are queuing up in calais waiting for a labour government. and as i said the other night, if the if labour win, the people smugglers and the criminal gangs are going to need a bigger boat, do not surrender our borders to keir starmer and the labour party. i asked him multiple times, he can't tell you what he's going to do with illegal migrants. i can, they are on planes and they're out of looking at reform uk. >> you have surrendered some of your supporters to reform uk. why is nigel farage seen as the answer to so many of your problems in the party? by some on the right? >> well, what nigel farage said about putin was completely wrong plays into putin's hands. putin is someone who has deployed nerve agents on the streets of britain just the other day, doing deals with north korea. right. and that kind of appeasement is so damaging to our security and the security of our security and the security of our allies. and it only

emboldens putin further. >> but you but you said that you're a broad church and he could join your party to us last october. is that the case? >> still? i said what he said on on putin is completely you wouldn't allow me now as a member, would you? he's he's standing against the conservatives at this election. but what i'd say to everyone, right. i'd say to everyone who's conservative oriented, right. if you want your taxes cut, if you want migration dealt with, if you want a sensible approach to net zero, if you want your pension protected. i'm going to deliver that for you. if you vote for anybody else, you are just going to put you might not look, you might not like this. right. and i get that you might think that's unfair. but if you vote for anyone else, you are just going to put keir starmer in number 10. you're going to get the precise opposite of what you want because your taxes are going up. we're going to become the soft touch of europe when it comes to migration. it's going to reverse all my changes to net zero. and your pension is not going to get protected, it's going to get protected, it's going to get taxed. and we're going to get taxed. and we're going to get taxed. and we're going to invest less in our national defence. so if you don't vote conservative like thatis don't vote conservative like that is what you are going to get. >> when you came back from the d—day commemorations, he says

that you weren't patriotic. you don't care about our history, our culture. what did you think about that remark about you personally? yeah. >> look, he should answer what he means by that. >> but i'm indian heritage. he was talking about was it, well, again for him to answer what he meant? >> but i am deeply proud to be british. i'm so proud and thankful for everything that this country has done for me and my family. as we've been talking about. and that's why i do this job, right. i do this job because of what this country has done for me and my family, and i want to make a difference to people's lives. i love this country, right? and no one should ever question that. >> and just finally, your message to for gb news viewers, they're watching this, this interview here. they're worried about immigration. they're containing the economy around. i mean, can you can't labour do that as well? can't aren't labour offering a more convincing case now than they have done in recent recent elections? >> well, the first thing i'd say is that the labour run welsh parliament have banned gb news. right. so that tells you what they think about gb news and gb news viewers. right. i've come and done gb news, people's forum several talk directly to your viewers because i respect them and i want to make sure that they know i'm addressing their

concerns and i'll just say this right. i get that people are frustrated with my party, with me. it's been a difficult few years with covid, the war in ukraine. we haven't got everything right. we haven't made as much progress as we would have liked in some areas. but this is not a by—election. your vote can make a difference. this is a choice about our country's future and the impact it will have on your family finances. do not give labour a blank cheque to do what they want. do not surrender to them. if you do not vote conservative, your taxes are going up. we will become the soft touch of europe when it comes to migration. the net zero reforms that i put in place will be reversed. we will invest less in your in our defence, your pension will be taxed. that's what's going to happenif taxed. that's what's going to happen if you don't vote conservative. right so vote for conservatives. that's why i can keep cutting your taxes, invest more in our defence, strengthen our borders, protect your pension and get us a net zero in a sensible way. >> thank you forjoining us

>> thank you for joining us today on gb news. thank you. >> thanks very much for having me. >> there we have it. well, let's get back into the detail with my superstar crossparty panel. paul goodman, the tory peer, the labour peer maurice glasman and the former liberal democrat mark oaten. shapps. we're going to get into the nitty gritty, actually in part three of the show where we'll talk about immigration, what he said about farage and other issues. but what intrigued me as you were watching, that is you all discussing his tone and the way he's speaking. mark, you said you thought it was blairite. >> i mean, it was more than tone. it was tony. if i shut my eyes and i actually listened to some of the phrases look, right, i'm going to be crystal clear. and then even the way the hands were moving, it actually did feel quite engaging. also, the look is different. not in a tight sleeves rolled up, a more casual but feisty but casual. and i definitely saw hints of that kind of relaxed, engaging look. i'm one of the people kind of approach, and that's a little bit different from him. >> maurice, is he more engaging than keir starmer, who people think is a bit bland and boring?

>> no, it's just i think there's a coach somewhere who takes pubuc a coach somewhere who takes public school boys and turns them into estuary english speakers. so look, you know what? i'm saying is it's all completely pathetic and poor rishi is just useless. >> he speaks. >> he speaks. >> of course he has changed the way he speaks . yeah, his accent way he speaks. yeah, his accent is completely different here. >> he's brought up in southampton. he went to winchester. >> but yeah, winchester . >> but yeah, winchester. >> but yeah, winchester. >> he's changed his accent much as he. no. >> if you. if you pick up on this estuary thing like the way he was at the end of the tory leadership contest with liz truss where he'd warmed up, he'd done a lot of events. >> he got faster and more fluent. i think this is what happensin fluent. i think this is what happens in general election campaigns. he's now done so many interviews. he's gone through the pain barrier and has relaxed a bit. i think the tragedy for him is that probably and you know, senior tories are saying this themselves. it's come too late . labour are set to win and late. labour are set to win and he's now in the business of trying to reduce labour's majority next week . majority next week. >> what do you think there, morris? >> no, i think i think that that

look there's much more fundamental problems facing the conservative party than rishi being a bit sleepy in the first three weeks of the election. didn't say there weren't, you know, so they they were elected to deliver a different economic model. they haven't done it. they were elected on levelling up. they they haven't been able to challenge a really failed form of capitalism. this is the fundamental issue . and, you fundamental issue. and, you know, i'm just saying that he's just speaking exactly . i just speaking exactly. i wouldn't just say it's tony blair. i would say it's george osborne too. they kind of make this strange accent shift, as if they were brought up in a classic illustration of what the election campaign has been, has been like . been like. >> rishi sunak is trying to talk about what labour will do or would do. morris and labour want to talk about the last 4 or 5 years and no wonder, given the problems, well, the only thing i think there will be some regret, some regret because they've seen how wooden starmer is. >> and actually in this interview, i thought the prime minister was more animated, he was more interesting, much more interesting than starmer. so i think there may be some regret. two regrets. first of all, if

we'd had another few months and we'd had another few months and we'd had another few months and we'd had more of this, it might have been different. and the second is why didn't he start the campaign in this mode? why why is everybody being so cautious, let loose. and that's why farage has been popular. because the public say, look, here's a guy who speaks his mind. yes. and that's what these mainstream politicians need to do more of. >> well, on that note, hasn't robert blackstock, who is a retired engineer based in nottinghamshire , become the nottinghamshire, become the brenda of this election campaign? in summing up the mood of the nation, and he asked both leaders at the bbc debate last night whether they were the best that britain could do. he seemed very underwhelmed . he seems to very underwhelmed. he seems to be stuck. hang on. just just to finish the point, he seems to be stuck with this sort of sophie's choice of he's fed up with the tories, even though he said he was a lifelong conservative voter. and he wants to punish them for reneging on their manifesto pledges. but he looks at starmer and he sees absolutely nothing that convinces him he wants to vote for him because he's worried about his pension and he's worried about fuel duty, and he's worried about immigration,

inheritance tax and what it might do. he then looks at farage and just finds reform and some of his rhetoric just too unsavoury. and therefore you've got an electorate out there that isn't banging the drum, really, for anyone. >> and it's going to be very low turnout to it. >> isn't. but this is the oddity of the electorate. if you don't say anything much, if you're very cautious , if you incur the very cautious, if you incur the criticisms of the ifs for not spelling out what you do, you're treated by the voters with contempt . but if you make contempt. but if you make a serious attempt to tackle the problem, like great disastrous example theresa may's social care policy in 2017 has you are finished losing your mind, lose your house. >> what a brilliant election strategy she had. >> i think there's something else going on here. and it was. it's a reflection on the fact that the quality of politicians, i think, has gone down the big beasts that we used to have, you know, you could name all the cabinet. i can't name the cabinet. i can't name the cabinet. i can't name the cabinet. i can't name who these individuals. i certainly can't name the shadow cabinet. whereas

back in the day you had the heseltine's, you had the blairs, the thatcher's, the you had these big beasts that individuals could relate to. they knew them. and there was more respect for politicians . more respect for politicians. >> we're not looking to. the last general election was , boris last general election was, boris johnson versus jeremy corbyn. yes right. this was both the parties are going through post—traumatic stress disorder about having them as leaders. now, these were people who spoke. they said what they thought, that, you know, and we said , oh my god. and now, said, oh my god. and now, obviously the conservative party reverted to middle order thatcherism, middle management. i mean, rishi rishi sunak is not a guy who should be even a politician. he's a kind of corporate stats guy about, you know, comms. and he and he does the spreadsheets like chaps. >> we need to leave it there because we need to go to part three. our political editor is going to be joining us live in the studio as well, to tell us what really thought of his with the prime minister. don't go anywhere because

welcome back to vote 2024. the leaders with me. camilla tominey before the break, we heard part two of gb news interview with the prime minister rishi sunak. chris hope, our political ednonis chris hope, our political editor, is in the studio. joins my superstar panel of paul goodman, maurice glasman and mark oaten . goodness me. how am mark oaten. goodness me. how am i going to keep you chaps in check ? let's start with you, check? let's start with you, choppen check? let's start with you, chopper. really good interview. well done. i thought it was very . it was quite passionate. more passionate than i've seen him . passionate than i've seen him. he looked very convinced of his own arguments. he seemed to have had a little bit of sort of to and fro with you quite well. he was a bit technical in the immigration bit, but generally he seemed quite at ease. has that been the case throughout this campaign? >> no, it has not. and in fact, as recently as monday i was in scotland for the launch of the conservative scottish manifesto, and he was very he's very low key. i mean, he gave a speech i

didn't took no questions in the room to all the activists, went to a side room, answered a six questions from the travelling journalists . five of them, journalists. five of them, including mine, was about betting, normally a leader would change the subject very quickly. he just answers them repeatedly. and it was really grim. and i thought, gosh, he's he's think he's lost already. and then something happened between monday and wednesday last night with the bbc debate, when he came out punching and he carried that in in this morning i said to him, have you had your weetabix, prime minister? >> yeah, i've just said that earlier because i thought, no, i've got the answer for you, by the way. >> no he hasn't. he had his muesli and his berries and he had a fry up breakfast. >> what's the thing with the weetabix. well, maybe, maybe he's on to viagra. i'm not sure. >> i'm not sure we can possibly comment on that. >> he had a fear of full english breakfast. did he? yes. >> that's very farage. if you don't mind me. >> very unrwa sunak, i think. >> very unrwa sunak, i think. >> right. so let's revisit the immigration chat, because i felt that was the point at which he did bristle a little bit. let's have a look at what he said about immigration because you challenged him. he said, well, the tories haven't done enough

to bring the numbers down. and this is what he said. >> you haven't cut migration. >> you haven't cut migration. >> well, i've been prime minister for 18 months, chris, and let's have a party. forgive me your party, but i've been prime minister for immigration was too high. i'm not going to pretend otherwise. of course it was too high. i've been very clear about that. i've been your prime minister. everyone's prime minister for 18 months. in that time, we've taken significant action. net migration was down last year, the first full year i was in office. and this year, thanks to the reforms that i've put in place, the number of visas we've issued is down by 30. >> paul isn't the main reason the tories are losing this and losing this so badly is their failure to deal with migration. >> i think the main reason is covid, the ukraine war and the bons covid, the ukraine war and the boris johnson liz truss mess. but immigration certainly is a part of it. and rishi sunak can't get people to think about what keir starmer is going to do about migration, which doesn't appear to be very much because you've had this oddity of three successive tory leaders who were migration liberals boris johnson, liz truss and rishi sunak himself. most unlike the bulk of the parliamentary party

and most unlike the members. and that's why we are where we are now, with no one much thinking about what keir starmer is going to do when he's there next week. >> maurice. keir starmer is a migration liberal, isn't he? didn't he once describe any immigration policy as racist? >> you know , politicians go on a >> you know, politicians go on a journey. was once a fanatical supporter of, remain. but you know jeremy corbyn. well, i wouldn't say that he was. well, he propped him up, you know, he was a politician and a party who just, you know, kept his head down. yeah, you know, i wouldn't, i wouldn't go sorry , i wouldn't, i wouldn't go sorry, i wouldn't, i wouldn't go sorry, i wouldn't, i wouldn't go. >> i mean, he celebrated the corbyn manifesto . corbyn manifesto. >> but what was interesting to me today is he said that immigration was a national security issue. now, i think that opens up interesting space. i mean, i could labour send the royal navy into the english channel. i mean, if it's a national security, they could thatis national security, they could that is pure farage phil morrish glassman. >> that's what nigel farage says. he makes that very point. >> well, you know, if it is a national security issue, then you have to think about military solutions. >> i think there's a there's

another issue at play on immigration, whatever your views on it. and i think we all have differing views around the table here. it's about competence and whether you can actually deliver things you say you're going to do and whether or not people think you've got a competent solution and i don't think the pubuc solution and i don't think the public actually recognise rwanda as a serious option. so they may have strong views on migration. but the problem the conservatives have got is this ridiculous idea of putting people on aeroplanes. nobody has gone there except for home secretary after home secretary, and the public can see through that. >> really quick word on that, chris, because actually even people that are really concerned about immigration don't like the rwanda scheme . they don't think rwanda scheme. they don't think it's going to work. >> no, because it's been sabotaged by lawyers and the rest. i was trying to read out like keir starmer tried to read out the point was they thought the 2019 election on bringing down migration and it's gone up three fold. >> that's the problem. all right. >> you've got something to say. >> you've got something to say. >> you've got something to say. >> you have got something to say. is that the entire conservative political economy is cheap. labour delivery economy bring in cheap labour because they don't do anything

about vocation. they, you know, so that's what i mean. paul when i say that there's a fundamental problem that the conservatives can't align markets well with really quickly because i want to talk about nigel farage. >> you're not getting an answer from labour either. and on the matter of rwanda , flawed though matter of rwanda, flawed though the rwanda scheme may be, no one has come up with a workable alternative. the labour solutions, insofar as they're original, aren't good. the good bits of it the government's doing already. >> all right. >> all right. >> security to be reminded of what rishi sunak said about let's just be reminded of what we should sunak said about nigel farage and the prospect of working with him to reunite the right . right. >> but you but you said that you're a broad church and he could join your party to us last october. is that the case still? >> oh, i said, what he said on on putin is completely. >> you wouldn't allow him in now as a member, would you? >> he's he's standing against the conservatives at this election. >> i mean, it's interesting. he instantly mentioned putin because he knows that that's a vulnerability , right? i mean, vulnerability, right? i mean, somebody pointed that out while we're watching. was that you,

paul? >> it was he went he went straight in. >> he was asked about farage and sort of light went off in sort of in sunak st giles' putin. that's the light. >> he told us last october. we're a broad church. when i said to him, can farage join your party? and he didn't say no, then he merely said he's standing against me. a é realty? ,,, t5 ré'éilytih'té'resting >> it's a really interesting change of gear. now you've actually got an election on and farage has come in and is standing candidates against the conservatives. the putin thing, it is a weakness for farage people will think just a bit your ordinary sort of right wing, disillusioned tory type voters think it doesn't sort of smell quite right to me. it's not even so much farage's line on ukraine. it's his instinctive reaction to putin. he's a strong leader and right back. and then, you know , that is a character you know, that is a character test would have been an appeaser in the 30s. >> you just know it. >> you just know it. >> you just know it. >> you don't know that you just know at all. in the second world war. i mean, you've got to bring the second world has been ended every day . every day. >> commemoration has been he may be dismissing farage now, but in ten days time, it's going to be

absolutely fascinating . if we absolutely fascinating. if we get cross over this point at which reform outpoll the conservatives, they already have in a couple of polls. but in the big poll now, bizarrely, they're going to get no seats reform because of the electoral system, and the conservatives will get the seats. but wait a minute. there will be probably no seats, because these seats that the lib dems are going to get is always they're going to get around 70 seats, what, 70 for the lib dems. >> but watch this space party because of the electoral system, it's unfair. >> i agree with nigel farage. >> i agree with nigel farage. >> what are we going to wake up on july the 5th and we've got the potential for? >> you have davey to be the opposition leader. >> you've got the potential for reform park, you've got potential for reform to poll. >> maybe 17, 18% and get no seats and that is undemocratic. >> with nigel farage to campaign for proportional representation. >> i've already i already said it's the one issue i agree with him on, but, but ed davey and daisy cooper have ruled out working with him. >> so are you people who can enter into coalition? pardon the pun. mark or not? >> well, clearly we have in the past. and look how that worked

out. yes, indeed. >> tuition. labour. >> tuition. labour. >> labour is now backing first past the post in spades. just to let you know. >> oh let you know. >> on we. on let you know. >> on we. oh yes, we do. you love it maurice, i do, i love the constitution i love this, it keepsit the constitution i love this, it keeps it linked with place. all right. final thought. >> we've got less than a minute. we've got to be really quick predictions, please, for next thursday. paul, quickly . thursday. paul, quickly. >> it's not going to be good for the conservatives i'm afraid. so. it's the question is how big will the labour majority be if the conservatives end up with a seat number that's in three figures rather than two? >> that'll be a good result, won't it? >> i don't know, because the mps vary are varying so wildly. it's very hard to say. chopper. >> i think that the appeal for the one 50,000 might turn it around for dozens of seats for the tory party. >> all right, silent conservatives are going to come out on july the 4th. maurice >> horrific decimation of the conservative party unprecedented post—war vote share than corbyn won in 2017 will beat that mark very quickly. >> i'm canvassing a lot. the unknown is the reform vote. it's really hard to call what will happen with that. the great unknown. >> well we oh it's 4520. i've

got a bit more time than i thought we had. right. all right. final thought from you then. chopper. the man of the moment for this interview. can he pull this back around? could a miracle happen? >> come on, tell the truth. >> come on, tell the truth. >> it's too late. i don't know where this rishi sunak was in week one. it's week six and he's pulled out the bag. i don't know where he was. i think also, i think the attack line now is good. all right. what would he do? what would you do to stop it? >> i got to stop it. >> i got to stop it. >> more weetabix for the prime minister. is our conclusion on this panel tonight. coming up next, we've got michael portillo who's going to be hosting state of the nation from 8 pm. so stay tuned for that because he's always got something insightful to say. i'm going to be back on sunday for my show, where i've got an exclusive interview with kemi badenoch. you'll want to watch it 930. see you then. have a great evening all right. thanks >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news >> hi there, it's time for the latest update from the met office for gb news. cool

atlantic winds return across the uk this weekend. that means blustery showers, especially for northern parts, but some drier and brighter interludes too, especially across southern parts. low pressure and unseasonably deep. low is now crossing northern scotland. around the south of that low, we've got these strong winds bringing unpleasant conditions really across scotland, northern ireland, northern england, spells of rain or showers continuing through the night, the strongest winds pushing through northern and northeast scotland. meanwhile, further south, it's mostly dry, apart from 1 or 2 showers for wales in the south—west patchy cloud, but a cooler night for many of us, so 11 to 13 celsius by dawn. now we start the day with those winds and the outbreaks of rain continuing across northwest scotland , northwest islands scotland, northwest islands seeing prolonged and at times heavy rain and the rain then sweeping into orkney and shetland. later some shelter from the rain across eastern and southern scotland, but a few showers here, brightening up across northern ireland compared with the last 24 hours. a few

sunny spells but also 1 or 2 showers. a few showers there for wales. northern england, perhaps the southwest, but the further south—east you are, the drier will be, the brighter it will be. there'll be quite a lot of cloud to be honest, across the uk during the day, but some brightness will develop, especially towards the southwest by the afternoon. further north any rain tends to break up into showers, but there will be some heavy downpours for the highlands. grampians, the northwest of scotland and that strong wind continues, making it feel on the cool side in the south, where we've got some sunshine and lighter winds 23 celsius. so not too unpleasant. we start saturday with a lot of fine weather. best of the sunshine. the south—east, as well as parts of southern scotland, northern ireland. this finger of cloud pushes into northern and western england as well as wales to bring some light rain by the afternoon. but for many, this weekend is looking mostly settled , if a lot looking mostly settled, if a lot cooler compared with the weather of recent days . of recent days. >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers sponsors of up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb