you. sunak has spoken out in response to the vile racist remarks made about him from someone who is apparently a reform campaigner. let's look at what actually has been going on and stop talking twaddle. that was one runs one woman's fespoi'ise. was one runs one woman's response. even i'm getting confused about what the word woman means. it was her response to keir starmer when he was waffling about protecting women's safe spaces. let me ask you, do you think this issue is

now the achilles heel for the labour party.7 and off the back of the trump and biden debate last night, many people are saying that biden should stand down. your thoughts on that? and let me ask you this. do you think we're becoming desensitised as a nation ? when desensitised as a nation? when you hear about awful things happening now, do they stop you in your tracks anymore, or do you take them in your stride? what do you think is to blame for this? the internet or what? you tell me. all of that and more . but first, tonight, 6:00 more. but first, tonight, 6:00 news. >> good evening. it's 6:01. i'm karen walker here in the gb newsroom. the prime minister says the leader of reform uk has questions to answer after a video emerged of a campaigner making racist comments. andrew parker was seen making a series of offensive remarks about the prime minister, rishi sunak.

he's now apologised but insists he was goaded into making them. rishi sunak says it's part of a broader pattern of behaviour. a warning the following clip contains some offensive language. >> when my two daughters have to see and hear reform , people who see and hear reform, people who campaign for nigel farage calling me an f, it hurts and it makes me angry and i think he has some questions to answer. when you see reform candidates and campaigners seemingly using racist and misogynistic language and opinions seemingly without challenge, i think it tells you something about the culture within the reform party. our politics and country is better than that . it's my duty to call than that. it's my duty to call out this corrosive and divisive behaviour. >> well, nigel farage said earlier that the comments have no place in the party and describes the secretly recorded video as a set up. >> someone told us he was an actor, we rang him this morning. the daily telegraph rang him this morning. he denied point

blank that he was an actor. it turns out he is an actor. i found his website . he's found his website. he's a well—spoken actor who does something called rough speaking. well, i was in the office when he arrived last saturday and he was doing rough speaking. it was an act right from the very start. >> you've met him? >> you've met him? >> he. i was working and he came in and came up to me and said hello. and then he went out canvassing where the undercover filming took place. and he was rough speaking. he wasn't being himself from day one. i have to tell you , this whole thing is tell you, this whole thing is a complete and total set up. >> well , in a complete and total set up. >> well, in a statement, a spokesperson for channel 4 said they strongly stand by what they called rigorous and duly impartial journalism, which they say speaks for itself . in other say speaks for itself. in other news, reform uk has increased their lead in the election polls despite a difficult week for the party, with allegations of racism. a poll conducted by whitestone insight has found that labour has maintained top spots, but both reform and the

conservatives are fighting for second place. electoral calculus said if the above results were to be repeated at next week's election, it would result in a labour majority of 244 seats, with the conservatives on 57, the liberal democrats on 72 and reform on 31. lawyers for two people who became sick after eating sandwiches containing e coli have started legal action against tesco and asda . the against tesco and asda. the claims relate to an 11 year old girl who ate a chicken salad sandwich. she's now been on dialysis for three weeks after falling ill separate legal action is also being taken against tesco on behalf of a man who says he regularly purchased sandwiches for his lunch. at least 122 people have been admitted to hospital since the start of the outbreak, which has also led to the recall of wraps and salads sold at several major retailers . staffordshire police retailers. staffordshire police has said they are not looking for anyone else in connection

with the deaths of a woman and a man in hednesford. police opened a murder investigation after the bodies of 24 year old daniel duffield and 22 year old lauren evans were discovered in a property on tuesday afternoon. police say post—mortems have been carried out and the causes of death will be determined at an inquest , a of death will be determined at an inquest, a security guard accused of hatching a plan to kidnap, rape and murder the tv presenter, holly willoughby, has been giving evidence in court. placed under arrest on suspicion of conspiracy to kidnap you do not have to say anything, i ask you. >> listen. talk about doing something like gavin plumb told chelmsford crown court he's heartbroken, disgusted and shocked that his online chats about the alleged plot have come out. >> he says his dark discussions were massively regrettable , but were massively regrettable, but insisted the alleged plans were a fantasy and not real. plumb, from harlow in essex, denies

soliciting murder, incitement to rape and incitement to kidnap. the trial continues . the the trial continues. the metropolitan police says a total of 27 just stop oil supporters have been arrested in a co—ordinated raid, after the group threatened to disrupt summer holidays. four people were arrested on tuesday after being identified at gatwick airport and have since been released on bail. it also comes after six members of the group, some described as being key organisers, were arrested in hackney in east london last night. in royal news now , night. in royal news now, princess anne has returned home after several days in hospital with minor injuries and concussion. the 73 year old is believed to have been struck by a horse while walking on her gatcombe park estate in gloucestershire on sunday evening. her husband, vice admiral sir tim laurence , has admiral sir tim laurence, has thanked the team at southmead hospital in bristol for their care, expertise and kindness . care, expertise and kindness. well, those are the latest gb news headlines. for now i'm cameron walker. more in an hour for the very latest gb news

direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . forward slash alerts. >> thank you very much for that. cameron menos michelle dewberry. this is dewbs& co now. i'm with you till 7:00 tonight alongside me, my panel. i've got the former conservative mp craig mackinlay and the former defence secretary geoff hoon. you're both new faces to this panel tonight. what a treat for everybody. thank you very much. you're very welcome . andrew, i you're very welcome. andrew, i was trying to track you down. ever since i saw that remarkable documentary. i've got to say, you know, with you and christopher hope about your incredible battle with sepsis, i mean, incredible, i found you such an inspiration. well, chris, it was chris's idea. >> really. i mean, he's, been a good friend of mine for some years in parliament, and his idea came to see me in the hospitals. and thomas's multiple times, and we sort of hatched it

together. wouldn't it be a good idea to actually tell my story? so i, you know, i gave it warts and all, every bit that i could tell him. i was happy to relate. and i'm very pleased with the result. >> i think it was amazing. and i know you certainly inspired me. you inspired so many of our viewers and i'm so pleased she was playing hard to get. it's taken me ages to get you on the panel taken me ages to get you on the panel, so i'm really pleased that you're on tonight and you know the drill at home. it's not just about us three, it's about you guys at home as well. what's on your mind tonight? you can get in touch with me all the usual ways. you can email gb views @gbnews. com you can go to the website gbnews.com/yoursay or of course you can tweet or text me, but wherever you're watching or listening tonight, you are very welcome indeed. now i've got to start the show tonight with the story that's been dominating a lot of headunes been dominating a lot of headlines today, channel 4 news, they apparently did an undercover investigation going. they went out canvassing with reform uk. i've got to say that one of the fellows that they came across was pretty unsavoury, to put it mildly. he said. some horrendously vile and

racist things, not least about our prime minister, rishi sunak. now rishi sunak, he has come out today and responded to this. let's have a listen. >> when my two daughters have to see and hear reform, people who campaign for nigel farage calling me an effing it hurts and it makes me angry. and i think he has some questions to answer. when you see reform candidates and campaigners seemingly using racist and misogynistic language and opinions seemingly without challenge, i think it tells you something about the culture within the reform party. our politics and country is better than that . it's my duty to call than that. it's my duty to call out this corrosive and divisive behaviour. >> well, i've got to say , >> well, i've got to say, earlier today, early this morning, nigel farage, he spoke out and addressed this issue as well . listen. well. listen. >> well, there was an activist that said some pretty unpleasant things, very, very prejudiced,

very wrong. mr parker will not be welcomed back. but hey, you know what? he's put a statement out already saying his views he knows are not mine. in rob bates said some silly things for which, by the way, not offensive, but stupid things about the campaign, how it's being run. and george jones expressed frustration about the police having pride flags on their cars. >> but both those people, to be clear, won't be working with your campaign anymore. >> all of us say silly things after a drink. it was very unwelcome. >> also a very tough talking there and swift action as well. but then the story took quite a bizarre turn as well. this afternoon . listen to nigel afternoon. listen to nigel farage then speaking out again today someone told us he was an actor. >> we rang him this morning. the daily telegraph rang him this morning. he denied point blank that he was an actor. it turns out he is an actor. i found his website. he's a well—spoken actor who does something called rough speaking. well, i was in the office when he arrived last saturday and he was doing rough

speaking. it was an act right from the very start. >> you've met him. >> you've met him. >> he. i was working and he came in and came up to me and said hello. and then he went out canvassing where the undercover filming took place. and he was rough speaking . he wasn't being rough speaking. he wasn't being himself from day one. i have to tell you, this whole thing is a complete and total set up . complete and total set up. >> well, obviously people are . >> well, obviously people are. it's really divided people. it's issue. but i've got to say. channel 4 news, they've issued a statement and said, we're standing strong by our rigorous and due impartial journalism, which speaks for itself. we met mr parker for the first time right before you reform uk party headquarters, where he was a reform party canvasser. we did not pay the reform uk canvasser or anyone else in this report. mr parker was not known to channel 4 news and was filmed covertly on via the undercover operation . goodness gracious me, operation. goodness gracious me, are you following all this? everybody look, joining me now, pleased to say, zia yusuf, he's one of the, one of the biggest donors to the reform. campaign.

you will remember, if you're a regular viewer as well . he also regular viewer as well. he also joined me on the panel a couple of days ago . i've got to say, of days ago. i've got to say, people have really kind of, jumped upon this today, is there? they're saying that, reform uk are the party that are essentially, attracting the racists, that they have a lot of racists, that they have a lot of racists within them and so on and so forth. what's been your reaction to this situation today ? >> well, 7— >> well, look, ? >> well, look, firstly, it's unsurprising that the quite coordinated attacks from the political and media establishment, continue to get louder and more ferocious . i louder and more ferocious. i mean, channel 4 described this as themselves as and i quote an operation, it does look extremely, suspicious. i'm not close enough, to comment on all of the details, but this is a guy who, first of all, denied this morning to the daily telegraph that he was an actor. he does appear quite clearly , he does appear quite clearly, that he is an actor. i think one of the most important things to remember here is that reform are

now a serious force from british politics. they were polling at 4% back in october 2022, and other express poll today shows them 21, three percentage points ahead of the conservative party. what that tells you is that reform are homing in on the target of actually delivering real reform, real change in government for this stale and corrupt political class . so it's corrupt political class. so it's unsurprising that these sorts of attacks are going to get louder. but what do they tell us? they tell us that actually, reform are a serious threat to that corrupt political class. >> but, i mean, when you saw then rishi sunak today because then rishi sunak today because then he was speaking quite powerfully. i've just played a clip of it. i'm sure you've seen it. anyway, where he's saying how hurtful it is that, not least his daughters have to hear people in the public arena referring to him like that . i referring to him like that. i mean, you know, in this day and age, people shouldn't be communicating in that way. it's racist, it's vile, and it's just got no place in political discourse. i mean, you know, how

does that hearing that from a man that's got a massive reform thing stuck to his chest make you feel? >> well, look, i deeply sympathise with those sentiments from the prime minister. i mean, i'm obviously, somebody original subcontinental , descent. i have subcontinental, descent. i have experienced racism in my life. it's deeply, deeply unpleasant. and obviously , regardless of and obviously, regardless of whether what this man's origin was, you know, this this character that we see in the film who clearly has problems, they're they're abhorrent remarks. but what i will say is that if you send undercover reporters, determined to find witches into unvetted activists of any political party, witches will be found. and the notion that you should take the views of a one person or a tiny, tiny minority of a large group . minority of a large group. again, this is a party that commands the support now of a fifth of the country. this is millions and millions of people. so using those remarks in order

to smear such a large section of the country, i think is totally inappropriate. it's a bogus way of looking at things. it's exactly the same kind of dishonest argument that says, you know, anyone who is worried about climate change supports gluing themselves to roads , or gluing themselves to roads, or to, spraying our priceless monuments , taking a small, a monuments, taking a small, a tiny fraction of a group's comments that are obviously totally unacceptable and abhorrent. again, assuming this is real, which i would not assume by any means, it looks deeply suspicious and smearing an entire group is wrong. and i'd really encourage people to debate reform on its issues. you know the reason why these attacks are generally just name calling, you know, putin apologist or racist or whatever it is, is because clearly the political establishment, the established parties cannot actually debate reform on policy because reform's policies are the ones that make sense and are the ones that make sense and are the ones that are going to solve this country's problems. >> so as far as you're concerned, no wavering. it's still the party for you . still the party for you. >> of course. >> of course. >> see you . aslef. thank you

>> see you. aslef. thank you very much for your time. what do you make to this, craig? >> well, i mean, just to summarise what we've heard this afternoon, the story seems to be changing on an hourly basis, nigel saying that this guy was an actor and it was a big set up, paid for by channel 4 and channel 4, obviously refuting that. now that seems to be at the heart of this. okay, i don't know what the truth is. i'm not even going to guess what the truth is. but i will tell you what i know about the past. i was a founder of ukip back in 1992. nigel came along some months later and, you know, i'm a chartered chartered tax adviser, a professional standing come 2005, i'm afraid just once too often we'd had some weird people come along to ukip, and i was worried about my own professional reputation, and that really went over the edge with me and why i left and went back to the conservatives. was there a couple of the meps were in prison for fraud, and i thought, you know what? enough's enough. this was meant to be a clean start in british politics. now you know, i will speak as i find and i know nigel for a long time. he is not a racist man. so

this is this comes up every election when nigel puts his head up, that, you know, is there racism and the undercurrent of reform. but the truth is, you often get people and some of their candidates have been found out to be a little bit strange, who have tried everywhere else. and they then go to the new party, the new kids on the block, and we're seeing it again with the reform party. we see it every time. it is pretty sad because, you know, fundamentally, nigel is not a bad bloke. actually, i've known him for a very long time, but it does smear them. it's an easy smear to the for the establishment to make, but i have to say, what i've seen in the past, there have been some odd people come and go within the brexit party reform and previously ukip. but, you know, i don't know the truth on this one. it's a very good it's a very good sting if channel 4 are behind it. but i would i hope they haven't stooped that low. >> yeah. and obviously channel 4 just reiterate of course have denied any wrongdoing, what do you think to jeff. >> well, i suspect a lot of people would think that many reform members actually hold the

views that were expressed so publicly. they might not express them in quite the public way that they were set out. but i think that an awful lot of reform people that i've come across do have those kinds of opinions. and part of the problem undoubtedly , is that problem undoubtedly, is that when nigel farage sets out his extraordinarily simplistic solutions to the complex problems facing british society, they are picked up by some people on the doorstep. so i saw an interview the other day by the conservative mp for skegness and boston , who, was debating and boston, who, was debating with a reform candidate what would happen if all immigration was banned, which is the simplistic solution that reform are proposing. and he pointed out, no, they're not proposing that. >> they're not proposing that all immigration is banned. the reform uk's policy is net migration. so net zero migration. so net zero migration. so net zero migration. so not that you would have zero, but that it would essentially if you've got

600,000 leaving, then you'd have six and 100,000 coming in. and therefore you're netting at zero. >> i understand that, but the reality is that in order to achieve that zero, you're going to have to stop people coming in and the conservative mp pointed out that if that were to happen , out that if that were to happen, the local hospital would have to close and that is the case across the country that this country depends on a flow of people coming in previously from the european union into our hospitals. doctors nurses, now very often from the far east, people doing valuable work in our communities. >> but that is if you've got an economy or a health service or whatever, that's dependent on immigration, then that is a failure of policy. >> i don't think that's the case, actually, because the reality is, as you've we have just pointed to a failure of training within the uk for quite some time. >> i think we have to say that that's true. >> we could certainly train more doctors, which is actually labour party policy. we actually restrict the number of people

who can qualify as doctors. we do. there are many more people who would like to go to medical school and emerge with a qualification. frankly the country has to find more money to do that. but the reality is, as you've mentioned already , as you've mentioned already, people come and people go and one of the things i learned working for an italian company is that often people come here, stay for a short time to improve their qualifications, to improve their qualifications, to improve their experience and go back home taking the skills that they learn here. back to their own country. so there is that constant to and fro of people, which i think is really important in a modern western economy. >> yeah, i do just fine as well. the level of kind of, i don't want to say scrutiny necessarily , but when something goes wrong within the reform uk's kind of stable, if you like. let's not forget, this is a party that's emerged from nowhere. i had a, general election called, you know, all of us very unexpectedly, who have tried to kind of cobble together something, you know, they're not like labour or the tories who

have got databases and deep kind of, lists of vetted volunteers, trusted volunteers that they don't have databases where they have nothing. they're literally starting from the ground up. so when you're desperately trying to find people to help spread your message, you're going to find people, that are saying things that are wrong, that are doing things that are wrong. and it's actually about the response to it that you can judge a party by. and as i've just shown nigel farage, his response, this morning was very swift, very kind of direct. he was having absolutely none of it. i've got to say, one candidate who is a laboun to say, one candidate who is a labour, a candidate, you know, i've seen him tweet things like his favourite drink is white men's tears , he sits there and men's tears, he sits there and says that he's running for black and brown people. if a if a reform uk candidate turned round and said, my favourite drink is black man's tears and i'm running for the white people in the country. can you imagine that, ladies and gents, there would be absolute outrage. look, this, issue has really divided opinion, so i'll throw it over to you for the final say at

home. what do you make to it all this whole bizarreness as well, about this guy andrew parker. i mean, when you start digging into it , it really mean, when you start digging into it, it really is very odd. the voice that he uses on his so—called show reel asking for work versus the voice that he seems to be deploying on this so—called undercover, filming two very, very different things. and of course, he does less rough speaking and secret filming as two of his specialities all very , very odd, specialities all very, very odd, if you ask me again, i'll end on the note. that channel 4, rejects any wrongdoing at all. what do you think to it all? get in touch and tell me.

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry. this is dewbs & co with dewberry. this is dewbs& co with you till 7:00 tonight. alongside me. i've got the former tory mp craig mackinlay and the former

defence secretary, geoff hoon. good evening. welcome back , good evening. welcome back, everybody. now, you might have noficed everybody. now, you might have noticed that there was an interesting debate taking place at the early hours today. i'm speaking, of course, about joe biden and donald trump. well, joe biden, he is doing a rally as we speak, and i'll be cutting live to that in a second. i have to say, though, there was a huge debate rumbled on off the back of the debate between trump and biden, which is all about whether or not biden. i'm going to cut to the chase here is fit for office. there were so many clips circulating that showed very peculiar behaviour, to put it mildly. let's have a little look eligible for what i've been able to do with the with the covid. >> excuse me , with, dealing with >> excuse me, with, dealing with everything we have to do with, look , if we finally beat look, if we finally beat medicare. >> thank you, president biden . >> thank you, president biden. >> thank you, president biden. >> well, look, joe biden, as i

said, he's speaking live right now. let's take a look, learn how we learned. >> he's still proud about the pain and cruelties inflicted on america's women. we learned he still believes that politicians, not doctors and women, should make decisions about the woman's health. we learn that if he's elected again and the maga republicans pass a national ban on abortion, he will sign it. donald trump says he thinks over overturning roe v wade was a beautiful thing. i think it was a nightmare. no, i really mean it. a nightmare. and i made it clear again last night that if you elect me and kamala, you give us a democratic congress, we will make roe v wade the law of the land again .

of the land again. he continued to lie . he said, he continued to lie. he said, i quadrupled taxes . where the hell quadrupled taxes. where the hell has he been ? which is a simple has he been? which is a simple lie. i didn't raise the tax on anyone in america. if they made less than $400,000 a year, and i wounded my second term, either we learned the trump , who had we learned the trump, who had the largest deficit of any president in four years because of a $2 trillion tax cut to the super wealthy. we learned that trump wants to give another giant tax cut for the very wealthy and the biggest corporations. this time, $5 trillion. not a joke. $5 trillion. not a joke. $5 trillion to pay for it . trillion. not a joke. $5 trillion to pay for it. he's going to cut medicare and social security. he'll cut healthcare. >> well, i've got to say i mean, he looks a lot brighter. certainly sounds a lot brighter than he did early hours, of this

morning. now, look, this is quite a serious matter. and many people will say, you know, we're in the uk . why are you focusing in the uk. why are you focusing on us matters and all the rest of it? well, you know, you're former defence secretary and you will know probably more than many of us. it is crucial in terms of who is the american prime minister. we're going to have a very close relationship with them. we can't help ourselves often, other than follow america when you know whatever they seem to want to do. i mean , do you think joe do. i mean, do you think joe biden is fit for office? >> well , there's no doubt that >> well, there's no doubt that when the us people elect their president, they're not only electing a president for the united states, they're electing the leader of the free world. and that means a lot to the united kingdom, the us's closest ally . and frankly, the real ally. and frankly, the real reason why people are so concerned about last night's debate is that it might lead to a second term for a president who, frankly, was disgraced and who, frankly, was disgraced and who caused enormous difficulty inside nato , inside a number of

inside nato, inside a number of international organisations. >> you know, about trump now, i'm on about donald trump, and i would say the most people who are familiar with international relations would be extraordinarily concerned about donald trump returning for a second term, given that his first term almost ended in disaster for the international community. i thought it was quite a peaceful time when he was in office in terms of, conflict that seemed to have the us at the centre. >> but the reality is that we expect the united states spends by far the most amount of money on defence, deploys its troops around the world, is a force for good. and the reality is , if good. and the reality is, if that force for good is neutered because the president of the united states does not believe in engaging for example, in ukraine, trying to defend a country from the aggression of russia, we are all in trouble. >> but i thought one of his primary, one of donald trump's primary, one of donald trump's primary pieces of feedback in terms of nato was that he wanted

other countries to pay their way. he would say, why do we have to shoulder the burden for countries that are not prioritising their own defence spending, which is perfectly fair , isn't it? fair, isn't it? >> it is perfectly fair. and on that i totally agreed with him. countries do need to spend more money on defence, but what he also said was that the united states would not defend those countries that failed to spend appropriate amounts of money, which is a fundamental breach of what holds nato together. >> but many people will be shouting at the screens and going. they agree with that. if these countries do not ring fence enough of their own funds to protect their own people , why to protect their own people, why should any other country pick up the tab for a country that doesn't want to pick up its own tab? many people will agree with that because at the heart of nato is a an article that says that an attack on one nato member is an attack on all nato members . members. >> it is. and therefore, it's crucially important that the us president above all else, should

not undermine that understanding. but then other people will say, the people that are undermining that is not president trump, who says that he won't pick up other people's tabs. >> again, i come back and repeating myself. it is the countries that are not committing to the 2% spend that they're supposed to be doing that nasa also requests i agree with some of what jeffrey said there, one of which is we are interested in american politics because it's very interesting to us and it matters to us. i mean, we have far more coverage of a us election, and we do an australian election, for instance, because even though constitutionally we're very friendly and very close to australia, we don't really have great interest in the result. it doesn't really matter to us, but it does in the us. now, i do agree a little bit with what donald trump has hinted that countries should be paying more. i think that's absolutely right. if you're a us taxpayer, you'd be saying, well, why am i paying for a nato that's not prepared to pay for itself? and if a war breaks out somewhere in the planet, it's not going to be on domestic soil of the us. it's going to be somewhere in europe which is under the nato

umbrella. i mean, i took a bit of what donald trump said with a bit of a pinch of salt. i don't think he is suggesting that, you know, if the tanks, russian ones , i assume, come into europe, he wouldn't be prepared to use the nato umbrella against, you know, the country that's not quite paying the country that's not quite paying 2.5, but would help the one that is. so i think his sentiment was right. but let's get back to biden here. biden. trump, who's going to be the winner? i don't it's not for me to give an opinion on that, but i'm worried about biden and the condition that he seems to be in. he seems to be a lot perkier and brighter today. i haven't heard him slur any words, but last night was a worry and it was echoing what i think many of us have been thinking for some time that is this guy. he's had a long career, very, you know, he's distinguished career in politics in the us. isn't it time he actually thought for himself that perhaps time has come , but maybe that will be come, but maybe that will be taken away from him by the democrat party, or perhaps the electors themselves, which at the end of the day, it's not for

me as an ex—conservative mp, to tell us electors what to do. they'll come to that conclusion themselves. but from what we've seen, i'm a little worried and i just i mean, i don't like being cruel about people, especially not when it comes to health matters . matters. >> but there is something about what we're seeing here, and it really makes me feel uncomfortable because i think we're almost watching the cognitive decline, or certainly that's how it feels. we're watching the cognitive decline of a person in front of our very eyes, whether it's someone standing on a stage and going sit down when there are no stages, chairs, when it's someone getting shepherded off or someone just kind of glazing over and glancing, you know, mumbling their words. i mean, we all humans, you do mumble your words sometimes, especially when you're on a stage or live tv or whatever that does happen. but i mean, this is not that. it's beyond that. do you have concerns about his capacity? >> well, i have concerns about both candidates in that sense. i've got a lot of family in the united states, and they've been telling me for some time that younger people are really turned off. the fact that both

candidates are at an advanced age and are not likely to vote as a result. and that's a problem for the democratic party more than it is for the republican party, because the democrats do rely on young people registering to vote and turning out to vote. and if they don't vote for a candidate because they don't feel that he represents them, then that is a problem for the democrats. >> but do you feel, though i'm pushing you a bit because you know, many people, when they're watching him, it's not you know, it's not kind of like, oh, do we need younger people? it's about him specifically as an individual. do you think he should be? biden should be on that ballot paper. >> well, i agree with craig. it's not for us to sit here, but you must have an opinion. well, it's not for to us decide here in the uk whether the president of the united states should run for a second term or not. >> but you must have an opinion. i'm not saying that biden's listening to you right now, and he's going to base his decision about whether to step down on what you say that would be. that would be foolish of me. but you

must have an opinion, especially given the roles that you have held when you look at the footage that we all see, does that make you sit there and say, this guy, you know, i would say some people would say he's losing his marbles. >> well, what i want to see is i want to see a democratic president elected. >> why are you not answering the question? >> because i don't think it's appropriate at this point for me to comment on what has happened in a debate, when we have yet to see the outcome of what will flow from this. and there's a great deal of discussion going on in the united states at the moment about what are the consequences. >> but my question isn't about the specifics of the debate last night. this has been a whole long build up. people have had this sentiment, and it appears to be getting worse. i'm asking you, based on the performance, you, based on the performance, you would have seen it all. you know, you will have seen what everyone else has seen. given your experience, i'll ask you for a final time and then i'll give up. but do you do you not think, are you not looking at this saying this man should be off the ballot? he's not fit? >> no, i'm not saying that. what i am saying is that someone needs to look at this very

carefully. and i suspect the two people that will have most to think about it are mr and mrs. biden. and i suspect jill biden will be the person who will have a big say in what happens next. >> indeed. you know, i get the desire for power. i mean, there's many people that are very power hungry. but if that was my husband, i'm telling you, i would be doing the kind thing and saying, enough now let's go do speaking tours or whatever it is that people get up to after office there. what's your thoughts on it? you'll have strong opinions, i'm absolutely sure of that. let's talk. about keir starmer. he was taken to task by a lady on a radio show today. i'm telling you, it was fascinating. let's

break. hello, everyone. i'm michelle dewberry till 7:00 tonight. my panel remain exactly as they were two minutes ago. i've got craig mckinley and geoff hoon. look, i want to cut straight to the chase. we've looked at

reform and stuff. that's impacting them today. i also want to look at labour, though. take a look at this. keir starmer was challenged during a radio show today. listen we will protect i have protected in the past and worked with those protecting women's spaces. >> i will do that in the future. they will be protected. i'm particularly concerned about violence against women and girls and the biological and the need for biological, for spaces for biological women to be safe, they're the same in sport, the same in hospitals. but jane can you say now, can you say now that you will will not allow men biological men, under any guise to come into women's safe spaces? we will, of course, protect . protect. >> can you say that? because we shouldn't have to be kind to these very few men. you need to think about 51% of the population who are sick of the absolute twaddle that comes out of your mouth when we ask these questions. >> jane twaddle, she says.

>> jane twaddle, she says. >> that was jane from london, and i think that was radio five this morning. this issue about men being in women's spaces. i mean, i feel like it's becoming a bit of an achilles heel for the labour party. what do you think to it? >> well, it was the most remarkable piece of radio. i listened to it this morning and it almost proved what you might get with a labour government if, heaven forbid, it happens next week. it's going to be more woke, more of this type of stuff thatis woke, more of this type of stuff that is an irrelevance to most people in this country. that is an irrelevance to most people in this country . and that people in this country. and that woman, obviously very concerned about what labour party policy on on reforming grc and self—identification, all the rest of it might mean for women only places now, geoff will remember when he was an mp and he used to have mp surgery. now this came home to me about 5 or 6 years ago. this was all a bit over there not being talked about. it was remarkable that this is being talked about all over the place on a daily basis. but what is, let's be very honest, a fairly minority sport.

now, this woman came to see me and she was very concerned that her daughter was going to hospital for an intimate examination . and what was examination. and what was presented to her was a nurse that had not gone too far between the transition between male to female and this nurse was presented by the nhs trust as the nurse that was going to conduct this intimate examination on her daughter and this woman, not a conservative voter by any means, was appalled. and it was then that this came home to me. what on earth is going on here that we're allowing people to i mean, that's why i was very opposed to what scotland was trying to achieve. and thank heavens that the government put a block on that ridiculous bit of legislation for people of 16 to self—identify at a drop of a hat with new certification into a different sex, potentially overnight, or three times in a day, if you should so wish. and this really does raise serious issues about, you know, are we really that naive to think that those so minded to commit some

pretty atrocious things will not use this as a guise to get where they want to get to do certain things to females. so, you know , things to females. so, you know, there is no such thing, in my view, as gender recognition overnight into a new guise. to me, it has to be far more deeper than that. and at the moment i think we've got the balance about right. but i think, you know , that to me shows the know, that to me shows the wokery of what labour party will be all about. jeff what i don't understand about this highly complex, sensitive, difficult issue is why it is a party political issue. >> the equality act of 2010, passed by a labour government, protects women only spaces. it's absolutely written into the law and i want to read something from a government document from 2018 before. >> so why are we talking about it? it's obviously not. >> i just want to read this out to you, craig. it says trans and non—binary people are members of our society and should be treated with respect. that is a

conservative government document. absolutely. we all agree with that. published in 2018. and therefore, why are we having this as a party political debate? this is not party politics. this should be about getting the right protection for women and their self spaces, which is the case in since 2010, written into the law. yes, as well as understanding the sensitivity of people who through no fault of their own, are not clear about their own sex. >> well, we can talk about equalities acts and things like that. and one of the challenges will be that people will push back and say, yes, that women's spaces are protected. the rest of it. the challenge then becomes, if you allow a man to identify as a woman, then that circled woman is now permitted into said woman's spaces and this is the issue. many women like me, by the way, just to be transparent to this, i do not want a man in my female only changing room or whatever just changing room or whateverjust because he happens to have a dress on and seems to think he

was born in the wrong body, or is perhaps just some perv that gets his kicks and thinks that. and actually, now i can leverage this label to get in there. >> and that's why the act makes quite clear that those who are providing those kinds of services changing rooms, toilets and so on are perfectly within their rights to protect women in those circumstances, as they should women, meaning biological women. well, i'm interested in what you mean by biological because do you mean by that women at birth, or do you mean people who've gone through a sex change? >> all right, look, let me just be absolutely clear what biological is a tricky word in this context. it's not tricky to me anyway. it's. >> no, no, i can i can explain i can explain to you why i think there's a difference. >> well, you can tell the audience after the break, i want to give you space to explain. but do you agree that you can self—identify overnight? >> that's the issue. >> think. here. listen, because this

hello there. i am michelle dewberry. this is dewbs& co away with you. it's awesome. we're having a rip roaring time here. mainly because we're waiting for the bar to open. any regular viewers will know on a friday. it's my favourite part of the week. i can't lie. jul tavern is open. but guess what? someone's inadvertently moved the glasses tonight. i'm not having any of that. i've sent someone off to go and find some more, so i will open my tavern in a few minutes. look alongside me, my panel remains. i've got the former tory mp craig mackinlay and the former defence secretary, geoff hoon. now, before the break we was getting into the question that i was posing is, is the women question an achilles heel? basically for the labour party? i played you a cracking, interview with keir starmer and a lady called jen, look, let's go back to this issue. then. you were saying to me that this is a bit of a minority issue and all the rest of it and so on, and so forth. just remind viewers where we were before the break.

>> well, essentially, we were having a discussion about what is meant by biological sex. now, if that means sex at birth, then i think there is a problem for those people who are born into the wrong sex and who have an operation right? once they've had an operation, it seems to me they are then reassigned into a different sex. and i think that is acceptable. >> and so you was asking me because i was saying about safe spaces for females based on biological women. and your question to me was, what is a biological woman? how do i define a biological woman? well, i got to say, ladies and gents, sometimes i pinch myself because i can't believe in 2024 we need to have a conversation about what is a biological woman, a biological female. so to me, it's crystal clear. a female is an adult human. i mean, come on, it's an adult human female . that it's an adult human female. that is what a woman is biologically. it means that we've got all of the female reproductive systems. it means that someone if everything is working properly, you can get pregnant, your chromosomes are female and so on

and so forth. with all will in the world. yes, you can have surgery, jess . jeff. so yes, you surgery, jess. jeff. so yes, you can turn your bits inside out and you can attach silicone bags to your chest and all the rest of it that does not alter your biological reality with all will in the world. if you suddenly decide that you're not jeff, you're suddenly jen . you have you're suddenly jen. you have whatever tinkering it is with your exterior. you're not suddenly going to be able to get pregnant, are you? >> no. but then lots of women can't get pregnant. sadly so i don't. >> but that's because of a health issue. very sadly, for those people, that's because something is not working in their biology, in their biology. it's a health issue. a doctor would investigate that. if you went to a doctor and said, you're having difficulty getting pregnant, he's not going to investigate. it is he? >> but i think you're flying in the face of science. frankly, the face of science. frankly, the reality is that in the modern world, first of all, some people, sadly, are born intersex. it is not clear what's hang on, because i've got to say, ladies and gentlemen, i get to this point when i'm when i'm

told that i believe in biological reality and i'm flying in the face of science, i've got to have a drink like, cheers. >> jubilee tavern is open. cheers to you. and cheers to you. cheers. continue, please. a cheers to you at home. >> so in those circumstances, an operation can be undertaken that does change a man into a woman. >> this is a very. does change a man into a woman. >> this is a very . you're >> this is a very. you're talking about a very niche segment of people who are born intersex. i mean, this is not what the majority of people here are talking about. this is about men predominantly, who for whatever reason, seem to think that that they are a woman, a woman. you say this is a minority issue. it's not impacting many voters. i agree with you that a lot of people kind of say, who cares about this issue? but there are a great number of women, predominantly column inches about. >> yes, but that's because it's so important to us as women . so important to us as women. >> it's so important that biological realities are understood, and it really will shape the way a lot of people vote. it really will. no, i mean, my view is, i suppose, boringly traditional. >> really. yes. i mean, you've got excess chromosomes and x, y

chromosomes. you've got a cervix or you haven't. i mean, that is the basic biological, you know , the basic biological, you know, definition. but i will give jeff a little bit of benefit here. i mean, if somebody has gone through the whole procedure at great length, i think they mean it. i think they mean it. but the whole concept of gender reassignment certificates overnight absolute nonsense. but labour seemed very confused by all this. and i think, as i've said, this is a flavour of things. >> i am pretty confident you can't get a certificate overnight. indeed, i checked scotland were 4900 certificates. have ever been issued. >> well look, it was only the other day. it feels that david lammy was trying to tell people you could essentially, you could create these cervixes. i mean, honestly, it's time for us to go to the pub. ladies and gents, thank you very much, guys. thank you. to you at home. don't go anywhere. there are lots coming up and i'll see you on monday night . night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb

news >> time for your latest weather update from the met office here on gb news. good evening to you tomorrow a bit of a three way split with our weather. bright and breezy across scotland with and breezy across scotland with a few showers, mostly fine and sunny across east anglia and the south east, but in between this weather system is creeping towards us. not a particularly potent one, but it will bring cloud and some outbreaks of rain that's starting to move across the republic of ireland at the moment and spreading towards wales and southern parts of northern ireland by dawn. still a few showers across the far north and west of scotland. still quite breezy here as well, but elsewhere the winds pretty light with some clearer skies. temperatures will dip down to single figures but actually turning quite cloudy. but that will keep the cloudy temperatures up across wales and northwest england through the early hours. the cloud will increase a little bit across southwest england too, so a grey start here for some. maybe the odd shower, but for much of east anglia in the southeast, fine and sunny and for a good part of

scotland and northern ireland, certainly the north of northern ireland, a fine start to saturday, some decent spells of sunshine, still quite breezy across the far north and still plenty of showers packing in across caithness, sutherland , across caithness, sutherland, the western isles and the northern isles. they'll keep going for much of the day but a good chunk of scotland will be dry this cloud and rain, though likely to stick around, not much rain, i suspect, getting to the east of the pennines, but still predominantly cloudy here. dull and damp on some of those coasts across northwest england, north and west wales throughout, but brighter skies further south and with a bit of sunshine 25 degrees is possible across the south—east, scotland and northern ireland in the high teens , but with a bit of teens, but with a bit of sunshine, it shouldn't feel too bad because the winds will be lighter tomorrow compared to today. mostly fairly light winds on sunday as well. some rain will head back towards shetland. could start quite grey in the south with 1 or 2 showers here. quite a bit of cloud on sunday, but i'm still optimistic that many places will see some sunny spells and we've lost the heat from earlier in the week.

temperatures at or a touch below average . average. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news

>> good evening. it's 7:00 on friday the 28th of june. and this is a gb news election special with me . tom harwood. special with me. tom harwood. welcome to vote 2024. the people decide . decide. with just six days until polling day, we don't . we have a show day, we don't. we have a show for you tonight. the reform racism row rumbles on. rishi sunak has taken the gloves off, but nigel farage and co claimed that the man channel 4, caught

using racial