>> good evening. it's 7:00 on friday the 28th of june. and this is a gb news election special with me . tom harwood. special with me. tom harwood. welcome to vote 2024. the people decide . decide. with just six days until polling day, we don't . we have a show day, we don't. we have a show for you tonight. the reform racism row rumbles on. rishi sunak has taken the gloves off, but nigel farage and co claimed that the man channel 4, caught

using racial slurs is an actor who had connections to the channel labour are planning a big rally in london tomorrow with rumours of celebrities in attendance, but are they like neil kinnock in 1992, celebrating a touch too soon? and keir starmer has been explaining himself on bangladeshi tv today after he said illegal migrants from bangladesh should be sent back to, well, bangladesh . and i'll to, well, bangladesh. and i'll be chatting to george eustice, who's stepping down as an mp after 14 years as a former cabinet minister. he had a front row seat for the last 14 years of conservative led government. also tonight i'll be joined in my studio by my panel, former tory mp neil parish, labour activist aisha allah khan and lib dem federal board member callum robertson, plus former brexit party mep belinda de lucy will be . here.

will be. here. >> good evening. it's 7:01. i'm cameron walker here in the gb newsroom. us president joe biden says he intends to win the election in his first public event since his struggle during the first televised debates last night . he's the first televised debates last night. he's just the first televised debates last night . he's just been speaking night. he's just been speaking at a rally in north carolina , at a rally in north carolina, where democrats are hoping to win the state back from republicans this november. he claimed america itself is at stake and accused former us president donald trump of repeatedly lying and said he has the morals of an alley cat after his own shaky performance during the debate last night, president biden directly addressed the limits of his old age. >> i don't work as easy as i used to. i don't speak as smoothly as i used to. i don't debate as well as i used to, but i know what i do know. i know how to tell the truth . yes, how to tell the truth. yes, i know right from wrong . and i know right from wrong. and i know right from wrong. and i know how to do this job. yes, i

know how to do this job. yes, i know how to get things done . and know how to get things done. and i know, like millions of americans know, when you get knocked down, you get back up. >> back in the uk, the prime minister says the leader of reform uk has questions to answer after a video emerged of answer after a video emerged of a campaigner making racist comments. andrew parker was seen making a series of offensive remarks about rishi sunak. he's now apologised but insists he was goaded into making them. rishi sunak says it's part of a broader pattern of behaviour, a warning the following clip contains some offensive language i >> -- >> when 5mm hm >> when my two daughters have to see and hear reform , people who see and hear reform, people who campaign for nigel farage calling me an effing. it hurts and it makes me angry. and i think he has some questions to answer when you see reform candidates and campaigners seemingly using racist and misogynistic language and

opinions seemingly without challenge, i think it tells you something about the culture within the reform party. our politics and country is better than that . it's my duty to call than that. it's my duty to call out this corrosive and divisive behaviour. >> well, nigel farage said earlier that the comments have no place in the party and describes the secretly recorded video as a setup. but responding to mr farage's claims , a channel to mr farage's claims, a channel 4 spokesperson said that they strongly stand by what they called rigorous and duly impartial journalism, which they say speaks for itself and reform uk has increased their lead in the election polls despite a difficult week for the party, with the allegations a poll conducted by whitestone insight has found that labour has maintained top spot, but both reform and conservatives are fighting for second place. the electoral calculus said. if the above result were to be repeated at next week's election , it at next week's election, it would result in a labour majority of 244 seats, with the

conservatives on 57, the lib dems on 72 and reform on 31. now lawyers for two people who became sick after eating sandwiches contaminated with e coli have started legal action against tesco and asda. the claims , related to an 11 year claims, related to an 11 year old girl who ate a chicken salad sandwich. she's now been on dialysis for three weeks after falling ill. separate legal action is also being taken against tesco on behalf of a man who says he regularly purchased sandwiches for his lunch. at least 122 people have been admitted to hospital since the start of the outbreak, which has also led to the recall of wraps and salads sold at several major retailers . and royal news retailers. and royal news princess anne has returned home after several days in hospital with minor injuries and concussion . the 73 year old is concussion. the 73 year old is believed to have been struck by a horse while walking on her gatcombe park estate in gloucestershire on sunday evening. her husband, vice admiral sir tim laurence, has thanked the team at southmead hospital in bristol for their

care, expertise and kindness. well, those are the latest gb news headlines i'm cameron walker, more in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . slash alerts. >> good evening. it's five. it's 7:06 and my name is tom harwood. this is vote 2024. now today rishi sunak has said he was hurt and angry after channel 4 caught and angry after channel 4 caught a reform uk canvasser using a racial slur to describe him. let's remind ourselves now, when my two daughters have to see and hear reform, people who campaign for nigel farage calling me an effing it hurts and it makes me angry. >> and i think he has some questions to answer . questions to answer. >> strong words . nigel farage, >> strong words. nigel farage, however, has claimed that the whole thing is a setup. let's

take a listen. >> i saw the footage last night. i thought, no one speaks like that. it was just stream after stream of invective. no one speaks like that. he denied point blank that he was an actor. it turns out he is an actor. it turns out he is an actor . i actor. it turns out he is an actor. i found his website. he's actor. i found his website. he's a well—spoken actor . he was a well—spoken actor. he was rough speaking. he wasn't being himself from day one. i have to tell you, this whole thing is a complete and total setup . complete and total setup. >> so the big question tonight is nigel farage, right? was this a paid for stitch up by channel 4, or is the reform uk leader simply clutching at straws after his party was exposed fair and square? well, i'm delighted to say that . joining me is my panel say that. joining me is my panel in the studio. neil parish, the former conservative mp ayesha ali khan, a labour campaigner, and calum robertson of the liberal democrats, neil, we'll start with you. this is a bit of a strange story to be discussing. it's the first time

i can remember in terms of scandals , that the party is, is scandals, that the party is, is just sort of saying it's all made up. >> yeah. i mean , i think what we >> yeah. i mean, i think what we need to do is sort of get to the bottom of this, don't we? i mean, if these comments were made and they were made by, a reform activist, then they are very bad because, i mean, the last thing you want to do is stir up any racial problems whatsoever. and certainly by doing it when you're canvassing is very wrong. so i think this will be interesting as it unravels. i'm not going to make judgement at the moment on exactly who's right and who's wrong on this one. but what we don't want is racist comments from anybody, basically, and so, you know, and i have, you know, when you go out canvassing and i've done a lot in my time, you do meet people on the doorstep that have very strong views. now, what you don't want to do is courage them down particular routes. and that's why i think we've all got to be quite

careful when we're on the doorstep. >> certainly. right. we'll return to this conversation in just a moment's time. but i'm delighted to say that joining us now is belinda de lucy, the former brexit party mep and reform uk's education and family's spokesperson. belinda, thank you for making the time for us this evening, it does seem a little bit strange that nigel farage and indeed the reform party as a whole is presenting this as a staged set up from channel 4. the channel, of course, is denying this. >> well , look, the volunteer >> well, look, the volunteer leaf litter , what he said was leaf litter, what he said was utterly unacceptable , and i was utterly unacceptable, and i was shocked to hear such outrageous, awful , words shocked to hear such outrageous, awful, words being said. it i mean, i'm glad that progress has been made, that the nation is rightfully shocked that this kind of rhetoric is around and reform uk acted very, very swiftly and made it very clear

that anyone that holds any racist beliefs, you know, are not welcome in the party. and unfortunately with, with, as you say, all parties, when it comes to volunteers, especially you know, when there's not time to, to vet the helpers , you can come to vet the helpers, you can come across extreme fringes and you just have to deal with them swiftly , which is exactly what swiftly, which is exactly what we have done. now as has been said on the panel, it does look like there are other elements that need to be discussed and unravelled, i do think there is a huge smear campaign, a campaign against reform uk at the moment . campaign against reform uk at the moment. it is the campaign against reform uk at the moment . it is the revolt the moment. it is the revolt against the establishment and all the parties that want to keep the status quo . do not like keep the status quo. do not like that. an anti—establishment party, if you like, are on the rise in the polls and after the sort of hit job that was done on nigel farage over his intellectually defensible comments regarding, the eu and

nato, approaching russia's borders, and the horrific way it was completely unjustifiably spunin was completely unjustifiably spun in the press that he was somehow a putin apologist. i knew then that over the next few days, there is going to be a massive smear campaign. now saying that, nigel rishi said that nigel has questions to be answered. well, i'm not sure about that because you know , you about that because you know, you could easily then say, well, rishi has to answer personally for the tory mp who was caught watching porn in his parliament, or kier is personally responsible for all the problems he's had in his party and having to let candidates candidates go, or even the green party it impacts all parties. but we are very clear we are not welcoming anyone with those views. you know, the brexit party was the most diverse party in the eu parliament. tom, you know, we had, second, third, fourth generation immigrants, black, brown, all religions who have more patriotism and love for this country and their little finger than the whole of

westminster together . you know, westminster together. you know, it's nothing about colour. it's about national unity and coming together to be proud of your country to and defend british values. and that's what reform uk stands for. >> and yet what we're seeing today is a curious argument from the reform party pointing to this individual activists past as an actor, saying that he had worked with channel 4 in the past almost implying in a statement released on x formerly twitter, that this was a stitch up twitter, that this was a stitch ”p by twitter, that this was a stitch up by channel 4, i noticed that you're saying that the comments from this individual were absolutely reprehensible. and of course, the reform party has repudiated them. but it's interesting that there that the reform party press office is pushing this line of a set up. >> well, i think it's quite reasonable to be asking questions. i think there has been an unusual attack on reform

uk. i think there have been very much double standards , for much double standards, for example, the labour candidates in clacton, you know, has been accused of racist comments against white people and there hasn't been the future. sorry, the fiery, anger and press headunes the fiery, anger and press headlines and prime minister reacting to that, you know, we're a small we're a new party, and but as nigel has said recently, we're getting over our target. we're taking more flack. this was a volunteer leaf litter , and we've made it very clear, people like that are not welcome in our party, and i think that it's right to explore all the kind of attacks that we're getting when they go straight to the prime minister over, over this, when it hasn't happened with other parties and other parties have had el—sisi of course, other parties have had scandals themselves. >> i can't count the number of scandals that have engulfed the labour party and the conservative party in the last 4

or 5 years. is this not simply a part of politics? if your party wants to be up there with the big parties, and you certainly are polling around the same level , as the conservative party level, as the conservative party is right now , doesn't this sort is right now, doesn't this sort of scrutiny simply come with the territory? is the reform party not sort of asking for special treatment here? >> not really. i think we have had unfair treatment, actually, and we're just responding to that. and i think it's quite right for us to investigate, how this has come about. if, if the person who has said such horrific things, you know, happens to have a past in acting has allegedly worked for channel 4, | has allegedly worked for channel 4, i think it's really important. i think there needs to be transparency, across all parties and across all attacks. but as i said, we are a small party. we're leading the revolt against status quo parties and they do not like it. i don't see any other party that has had a volunteer leaf litter . you know

volunteer leaf litter. you know what they've said. go straight to the pm and the front page of the times, and i can understand why rishi is hurt. i mean, he said awful things, and i'm glad he's not welcome. and i think we've made it very clear we deal with people like that very quickly. isn't that isn't that a sign? a reflection on how serious we are about being a party for everyone? >> okay, well, belinda de lucy, former brexit party mep, of course, and reform uk's education and family spokesperson really appreciate your time on the programme this evening. thanks for joining your time on the programme this evening. thanks forjoining us. well my goodness, let's digest some of that with, my panel still joining me , neil parish. still joining me, neil parish. of course, ayesha ali khan and callum robertson. aisha, what did you make of what belinda had to say? >> well, first of all, i just want to say that this is not the first time we've had comments by reform supporters, by reform candidates that have come to light . and i just think that light. and i just think that this would have been the perfect opportunity for nigel farage to show a bit of leadership and say, this was absolutely wrong. we take full responsibility . we take full responsibility.

we're going to look into this instead. what he has done is pass the blame onto somebody else, i.e. channel 4 news, and basically hoping that kick it into the long grass, don't have to deal with it. not my responsibility. and i think that type of leadership, it's just not there. and if we are going to, you know, view him as a potential, opposition leader in, depending on what happens next thursday, that's not the sort of leader i would want, you know, anybody to be, looking up to. >> and yet belinda was saying that this activist was suspended as soon as this story broke. what more could the party have really done? in that case, i think what i find baffling is that, you know, channel 4 news have been covering elections for so many years, they've gone up and down the country , they've and down the country, they've been interviewing. they've been, you know, they know this is going to be subject to scrutiny and people are going to be questioning and looking into it. and so if you are going to, use

an actor who's got who's had previous links with channel 4 in the past, surely that would have come out at some point. so it's just it just beggars belief that, first of all, channel 4 news would subject themselves to that level of scrutiny and, ridicule afterwards if it was to come out. >> yeah, it's almost like they're staking the entire reputation of the channel on this. it doesn't quite stack up. >> it just doesn't stack up. >> it just doesn't stack up. >> neil, before i bring you on, we're going to, speak to callum robertson, who is a federal board member of the liberal democrats. does belinda de lucy have a point when she says, look, this is just one activist. it's an activist. this isn't a candidate. this isn't a party representative. how much weight should we be putting on this? >> i think the answer to that question lies in the video itself , he said. question lies in the video itself, he said. nigel occasionally calls him. he texts with nigel farage, this isn't some random activist. this is one of nigel's friends. what sort of person hangs out with

friends like that ? but actually, friends like that? but actually, let's go on to a slightly larger point. i stood in clacton in 2019. i recognised him as an act ukip candidate, canvasser. he is not an actor. he is a far right campaigner, being courted by a far right party who are pursuing far right party who are pursuing far right party who are pursuing far right policies. >> so you've met this man before? >> yeah, i've met before. he's a long standing local local yob and thug, to be honest. >> goodness me, that does bring a different perspective to this, doesit a different perspective to this, does it not? >> i mean, what i was also going to say about channel 4 is i did a programme called banged up, where i got locked up in a prison for a week with some interesting characters. but all i wanted to say, really, is, is that i found channel 4 to be very professional, and i really don't think they would go to these sort of lengths to set this up, because surely it would unravel anyway. and so therefore, i think what's being is a lot of smoke and thing is being thrown out by the reform party in order to try and sort of cloud what's going on. i mean, as has been said, it's

quite basically you don't want that language on the doorstep. the prime minister, he may not be a perfect guy, but he certainly shouldn't be, have that type of abuse. and i think that type of abuse. and i think thatis that type of abuse. and i think that is where the problem is. and i think all i mean, nigel farage is a great campaigner. he is very good, i mean, this is like the american don't forget, he's done quite a lot with trump, and this reminds me very much of a trump type situation where if it's not right, then it's fake news. and it's certainly clouded it. >> what to put the reform party's case. what they would be saying is this is simply asking questions. it's a fact that this person is listed on an actor's website, talks about doing , website, talks about doing, different voices, talks about doing secret camera work as well. i mean , at the very least, well. i mean, at the very least, it's a coincidence. >> it may be a coincidence, but i also think he he was an activist for the reform party .

activist for the reform party. and so therefore, i think the reform party has to answer. they have to apologise properly. and they don't really want to put out a smoke screen. and i shall be very interesting to see over the next day or two how this unravels, because i suspect there's a lot more to unravel. and i think you have been talking about some very interesting stuff. perhaps you'd like to elaborate a little more? >> i'll leave what i've said aside for a second, but i'm a teacher by trade , and one of the teacher by trade, and one of the things this reminds me of is the slightly naughty child who refuses to take responsibility for their actions, because that's what nigel farage he's a he's basically a child, an adult in a child's body. no other definitely other way around, child and adults body, who basically has walked around for 20 odd years saying thuggish things with a posh accent, being allowed to get away with them because he sounds nice and middle class, and one of the people you meet down the pub. but he is. he's just a thug in a suit and he's a thug in a suit who's being held accountable because his party is now riding high in the polls. good to see. >> but we're going to pause this

for a moment because channel 4 have released a statement. a spokesperson for the channel says, we strongly stand by our rigorous and duly impartial journalism, which speaks for itself. we met mr parker for the first time at the reform uk party headquarters, where he was a reform party canvasser. we did not pay the reform canvasser or anyone else in this report, mr parker was not known to channel 4 news and was filmed covertly via the undercover operation . via the undercover operation. well, goodness me, after all of that, thank you to my panel and to belinda de lucy. of course. coming up next, keir starmer was on bangladeshi television today explaining himself after comments he made about sending illegal migrants from bangladesh back to bangladesh. but was he right to do so? we'll be getting into that right after the

break. good evening. it's 724. my name is tom harwood. and welcome back

to vote 2024 on gb news now. sir keir starmer appeared on bangladeshi tv today following a backlash after he used bangladesh as an example of a safe country to which unsuccessful asylum seekers could be returned. let's have a look at starmer's original comments. and remember he's talking about people with no legal right to remain in the uk on the first few days in government. >> i'll tell you what i'll do. i'll put the staff back in the returns unit . i'll put the staff back in the returns unit. i'll make sure that we've got planes going off, not to rwanda , because that's not to rwanda, because that's more expensive. that's an expensive gimmick. they will go back to the countries where people come from. that's what used to happen. >> whether i mean, it's so hard to do well at the moment. >> at the moment, if people coming from countries like bangladesh are not being removed i >> -- >> well, here he is today explaining himself on bangladeshi tv. >> i'm very concerned about any upseti >> i'm very concerned about any upset i may have caused that certainly wasn't my intention. i didn't mean to offend anyone or

upset anyone , and i'm genuinely upset anyone, and i'm genuinely concerned that i have done so, not least because the relationship between labour and the bangladeshi community is very, very strong now. those relationships are strong and therefore it is a concern to me that words that i used have caused upset and, i do want to address that and to be absolutely clear that that was not my intention. >> keir starmer there, expressing his concern over upset. but did he actually say anything wrong? should a politician feel the need to explain themselves for stating that existing laws should be enforced? well over to my panel, calum, we'll start with you on this one. it does seem strange that he's taken to bangladeshi tv. taken to sort of almost apologising for what he said . apologising for what he said. >> i think it comes down to the

fact he did single out particular community, if he's saying, look, you failed your asylum seeker, application , you asylum seeker, application, you need to therefore be deported to your original country. not he's not advocating for rwanda or any of that daft nonsense, but he's advocating for a safe return of people who failed their asylum claim . i think where actually claim. i think where actually the offence comes in, i think there's a legitimate point to be made here about, well, there's a legitimate point to be made here about, well , why made here about, well, why single out bangladesh? >> well, he was asked to name country. >> well, he could have named, more than one country. why did you single out bangladesh as a particular country? >> well, that's an interesting point, ayesha. what do you make of it? i think look, this is a leader who's taking responsibility. >> it was clearly a slip of the tongue. he made a mistake . >> it was clearly a slip of the tongue. he made a mistake. he realised he's made a mistake and he's gone. on the next day to reach out and speak to the community that he's offended. and that's what good leadership is about. and we've just mentioned nigel farage, a few minutes ago, somebody made a

mistake. let's not do this again and let's hold our hands up, take responsibility and move on. hang on. >> is it is it that wrong to say that people who've come to this country illegally, who have had any asylum application refused, should then return to the country from which they came? it happens to be that quite a few people from bangladesh have come to the uk illegally . is it wrong to the uk illegally. is it wrong to the uk illegally. is it wrong to say that they should be returned to bangladesh? >> i think if somebody gave me the option of sending failed asylum seekers to rwanda or their country, of origin, i would definitely go with the country of origin because what on earth was this? is this rwanda policy all about? it's just not going to work. it hasn't worked so far. it's not going to work. so i agree that if this if the process has been followed through and the asylum cases have failed, then absolutely. but we have to make the process fair. >> is this is this a bit of a case of grovelling? >> yeah, i think the problem is that sir keir starmer has got a

problem in as much that he, he can't really send them back to very many countries. and so therefore, you know, he started going through the countries and then he, he alighted on bangladesh. you've also got to remember too, that you mentioned afghanistan. he couldn't have also got to remember as well. we've got yes, we've got illegal people coming in from bangladesh. we've also got a lot of legal migration from bangladesh as well. and our health service and all of our food industry and very much other things probably wouldn't run without a lot of immigrant labourer to help that do it. you see. so i think you've got to be very careful. and i think he i think he blurted it out. i think it was a mistake really i do, because i think he he should have named several countries. i think he was struggling to be blunt with you to find a country and out came bangladesh. don't forget, he's also had problems, you know, over gaza and all of these issues in it sort of enrages all of that. if you see what i mean. and that's why that's why, you know, if i could be so bold, he's he's on bangladeshi television today

because of the problems he has in certain seats in this country, and, you know, believe it or not, i have some sympathy for him, but i have no sympathy for him, but i have no sympathy for him, but i have no sympathy for him over his policy on migration, because i don't think it will work because it isn't a policy. >> isn't this the point, callum? it's all very well and good. sending people from bangladesh back to bangladesh. we have diplomatic relations with bangladesh. there are lots of countries with which that would be a lot harder to sort of do. the starmer legalistic, just take it through the courts and everything will be fine. that would be a very difficult case in the case of a country like afghanistan. >> absolutely. and actually one of the things that really annoyed me about keir starmer's approach is that he said he would basically sit down and do a deal with the taliban to return failed asylum seekers. and i'm sat there thinking, what the same taliban who barred women from going to school is that the same taliban that are killing people for being gay , i

killing people for being gay, i mean, you'd struggle to find an asylum seeker from afghanistan who doesn't qualify. >> isn't this why you need a safe third country where you can deport people who can't return to their country of origin? >> if we are honestly going to sit here and discuss rwanda as a safe country, a country that in the last 20 years had a genocide, an actual genocide , genocide, an actual genocide, the current president of rwanda is a man who stopped that genocide. and the social divisions that existed within that country then exist very much exist now . much exist now. >> well, let's turn this to asia now, because this is the labour party under the microscope, and we will see this more and more. it's likely that in six days time, keir starmer will be the prime minister. >> absolutely. and this is something that we all need to take responsibility for as a nation. people coming here, the reasons they're coming here, not everybody is coming to the uk to seek asylum and, to take homes and jobs and claim benefits. people genuinely want to come to this country and they genuinely

want to work and pay their taxes and make a positive contribution to , to our, our country. to, to our, our country. >> there's an issue here, a fundamental issue that will be the next government's problem . the next government's problem. people who've come to this country who have no right to stay in this country, where are they removed to? if they can't go back to their country of origin? >> well, this is the thing we really need to look at. obviously, we've looked at this rwanda, scenario and it's just not going to work. first of all, because like cameron pointed out, it's not a safe country. it hasn't been thought through, the what the government has done is thrown lots and lots of money at this and just kind of fingers crossed everything's crossed. let's get start this this ball rolling. and it just hasn't worked because it's just not going. it'sjust worked because it's just not going. it's just not a viable option. now, going back to labour party, consider other countries. >> if i could interrupt. there isn't i don't think keir starmer should be honest with the british people. and say i haven't got a policy on asylum seekers because he doesn't, because in the end they will be allowed into the country, they

will be processed and i suspect there will be an amnesty in the long run. but i mean, it's not in the party manifesto, but if you've got a big majority, which you've got a big majority, which you probably will, we need to look at it next thursday. that is exactly where we're going. and of course, from his point of view, he then turns tory voters off the tories towards reform. it's all actually works very well for the left of politics at the moment to do precisely that, because that's what's going on. >> i could tell you, because i'm not part of the inner circle, and i have no idea what i can say is that a lot of the people who have made asylum claims to come to this country, they've been refugees fleeing war in syria. they've been fleeing war in afghanistan a couple of years ago, when the taliban took over, we had an influx of people coming and seeking asylum here. actually, a lot more should have been done to support the people that many worked with. >> they are genuine refugees, but also in many cases, we do see economic migration as well. we're going to pause this conversation here. and a big thank you to my panel next up, we're going to be talking to the

former cabinet minister george eustice, to discuss him stepping down from political life and indeed the last 14 years of conservative led government. the goings on at the heart of british politics don't go

good evening. my name is tom harwood. it's 736, and this is gb news vote 2024. now, george eustice was elected to parliament in 2010. served under five prime ministers and held high office as environment secretary under boris johnson. a brexit supporter and a former cabinet minister. he's now stepped down and is not seeking re—election . well, george, re—election. well, george, you've had a front row seat for the last 14 years. what has it been like? because it perhaps has been some of the most turbulent political times in modern history? >> yeah, absolutely. i when i first went into politics, one of

my jobs was press secretary to david cameron. when he was in opposition. and then, you know, a big story that the media used to get upset about was, you know, whether his driver had taken his suit in while he was riding his bike or whether he'd run a red light. and my word, you know, things. i think it wasn't just the division that we had over the brexit referendum when we were trying to take this really big decision to become a self—governing country again. you then had covid and you had ukraine straight after it, and it's just been an incredibly turbulent international global context. so we went from a penod context. so we went from a period of relative calm, although, you know, of course we had those wars in iraq, afghanistan and so on. but a penod afghanistan and so on. but a period of relative calm, i think, at the end of the cold war, and it really feels like there's been a lot of turbulence these last few years. >> do you think that part of the reason why these last 14 years have felt perhaps so politically different, difficult has been that for the vast majority of it, there has been either no majority in the house of commons or a very, very slim majority in

the house of commons. it's only been the last four years that there's been a large conservative majority, of course, theresa may led a minority government. there was a coalition for five years, and david cameron won a marginal majority of only a handful of seats . yes. seats. yes. >> i mean, i think if you if you look at, you know, the really big episode that's caused a lot of problems in its aftermath, it was really covid, you know, you can't borrow that amount of money and pay people to be furloughed and sit at home and expect there to be no consequence. and of course, that was done when we had a big majority, but the government was facing an extraordinary , facing an extraordinary, unprecedented global pandemic, and it felt that it had to act in that way. so in some ways, a lot of the turbulence came when we actually did have a majority, and we were able to do things. but certainly in my period, the single worst period was those theresa may years , particularly theresa may years, particularly when we had no majority at all. and it was hand to mouth as you were trying to take this really big decision. and parliament

actually really failed to step up to the plate. you know, it should have tried to find consensus and to have respected the result, you know, but in the event it was just bitterly divided and you had a major chunk of, you know, the labour party, the lib dems and some conservatives, i'm afraid, who were really trying to resist that democratic result. and it was, you know, for a while it was, you know, for a while it was it was a question mark about whether our democracy could, you know, actually survive it and whether it now you made a big decision midway through your parliamentary career as a up and coming mp, going places. >> you decided to go against the wishes of number 10, go against the wishes of your friend david cameron and back leave in the referendum rather than remain. how hard was that as a decision? >> well, it was quite hard because i'd been david cameron's press secretary and i'd worked very closely with his team. and in fact, in november, before the referendum, he had asked me whether i would help lead a kind of conservatives for yes campaign. and and i had had a

very awkward conversation with ed llewellyn, his chief of staff at the time, to say, look, i'm afraid i can't do this. i'm going to be on the other side. and that was it was quite difficult, but it was the right thing to do because my great frustration is, you know, david cameron never really believed that much in the european union. he, he believed it would be too difficult to get out. but if we'd not been a member already, he probably wouldn't have joined. and it's a it's a tragedy in a way that, he ended up driven out trying to defend something that he didn't particularly believe in. and i just wish that he had spent a bit longer. if he'd done another another year of negotiations to try to get a better deal, you know, the party might have united behind , you know, some united behind, you know, some kind of renegotiation. but in the end , the renegotiation, the end, the renegotiation, renegotiation he did was just, you know, quite ornamental and didn't really amount to very much. >> now, there's a, there's a view that sort of has, has dominated perhaps the wider country of how david cameron sort of , called country of how david cameron sort of, called this country of how david cameron sort of , called this referendum, sort of, called this referendum, lost it and then ran away to

hide in a shed somewhere. but, i mean, you were there in the corridors of power around that time . was that actually a david time. was that actually a david cameron sort of hands up, run away moment, or was there political pressure to oust him? >> i think there would have been people who said he should go, but i think it was a mistake for him to go because i think actually, as i said, he it's not as though he particularly believed in the european union. he wasn't like a michael heseltine or a ken clarke. you know, quite the opposite. he saw the whole, errm, debacle. he was, he was a eurosceptic at heart, and i think he would have done a betterjob of doing the done a better job of doing the renegotiation than theresa may did. he could have made michael gove chief negotiator, so you would have had a proper brexiteer leading the process, and i just think he would have done a betterjob. i think it's a shame that he went. i think if his adviser, his original adviser steve hilton, had been around and still on the scene, steve probably would have sat him down. and, you know, metaphorically slapped him around the face and said, look, you've got to do this, you don't resign over this. but by that

point, he didn't really have anyone to give him that advice. and i think he felt quite wounded, probably by by the fact that a lot of friends had felt compelled to go on the other side and campaign to leave. >> that's a really, really interesting point. of course, david cameron was just the first in what is now become a line of five prime ministers over 14 years. it's not a good look now. >> it's very difficult for the conservatives in this election. let's be blunt, because, you know, we're going in trailing 20 points. but part of the reason for that is we've tried to change horses far too many times. i think you can in government, you can maybe do it once and potentially twice if you've got a lot of turbulence. and it was certainly the right, you know, the right decision to put boris johnson in ahead of the 2019 election. but i think overall our system's really designed so that governments, should have a consistency of a prime minister throughout. and political parties should sort out who they want to be their leader and test them from a position of opposition. and then an opposition leader grows in strength through that job,

through that task, through all the challenges thrown their way and eventually become ready to be prime minister. and i think it's very, very difficult when, as we've been doing in the last few years, you you put in people to be leader when you know, they've never really experienced opposition. and haven't really had to fight their way up to that to that point. you know, it's just not an easy thing to do. >> do you think the tories would be further ahead now than they are if boris johnson was still prime minister? >> well, it's a very difficult what if i mean, my personal view is that david cameron shouldn't have resigned in the first place. obviously. i think then we had those dreadful theresa may years and she wasn't really, you know, up to doing the role, to be blunt, with, with, boris johnson.i to be blunt, with, with, boris johnson. i remained loyal to him to the end. i wasn't particularly in boris johnson's gang.in particularly in boris johnson's gang. in fact, i supported michael gove to be leader, but when he asked me to join his cabinet, i was absolutely loyal to him to the very end. and i do think it was a mistake to remove him. yes, it was difficult, that that whole sort of partygate issue was, was very, very challenging when we've been telling people you couldn't go to funerals and weddings and so

on, to have those sorts of incidents was tough , but i still incidents was tough, but i still think it probably would have been better to have stuck with bofis been better to have stuck with boris and tried to turn the corner. >> goodness me. well, george eustice, thank you so much for joining me and we'll be looking forward to your company on thursday night for our election coverage here on gb news now, coming up, the labour party are planning a big supporters event in london tomorrow, a big rally with celebrity guests and endorsements rumoured. but are they celebrating all too soon? neil kinnock , held what looked neil kinnock, held what looked like a victory parade with 10,000 supporters back in 1992 before losing the election ? could we be in for a

good evening. my name is tom harwood. it's 748. and welcome back to gb news vote 2024. now, the labour party has said it's planning a big fun party event

tomorrow, with a pop star rumoured to be coming along. this sounds really rather like a victory celebration to me. is keir starmer set to make the same hubristic mistake as neil kinnock in 1992, who held an extravagant in party rally that then went on to lose? let's see a clip of his introduction. >> comrades . oh well. all right . >> comrades. oh well. all right. >> comrades. oh well. all right. >> well, all right . great. all >> well, all right. great. all right. well, all right. >> we better get some talking down here. serious talking. >> goodness me . well, i'm >> goodness me. well, i'm delighted to be rejoined by my panel delighted to be rejoined by my panel. and aisha, the sheffield rally, as it was known, has gone down in infamy as a as far too hubristic before an election. is the labour party at risk of

repeating that problem tomorrow? >> i think, what i've noticed, at least on social media, is there's lots and lots of posts saying, you know, you won't change. we won't change, do not forget to vote. and i think nothing will change unless people go out and vote on, next thursday . and it would be quite thursday. and it would be quite interesting to see the margins because we've had, you know, all these figures being thrown at us. we've had another sort of poll coming out, you know, laboun poll coming out, you know, labour, 240 seats ahead and, you know , etc, etc. but none of this know, etc, etc. but none of this is possible if people, don't go out and vote and the danger is a lot of people probably , probably lot of people probably, probably think, well, there's no point in us voting because we're going to win anyway, so let's just not bother. and i think for me that is a worry because we have had seats literally the thinnest of margins , the thinnest. okay. and margins, the thinnest. okay. and my plea would be to to, anybody watching, any labour supporter watching, any labour supporter watching, please don't be complacent and please use your

vote even if you think we're going to win it. vote even if you think we're going to win it . just go out and going to win it. just go out and make sure that happens. >> and yet, neil, i suppose a rally, an event, something that could enthuse the troops, perhaps that will help people go out to vote. >> it might do. i mean, i imagine keir starmer won't quite do what neil kinnock did . all do what neil kinnock did. all right. i think that could be, you know , seen as slightly you know, seen as slightly foolish to say the least. but i think , yes, you need to rally think, yes, you need to rally the troops. i mean, of course i would argue very much that, make sure you don't give labour this huge majority because otherwise super majority, no opposition to the government in parliament. and i spent 14 years in parliament. neil, there might be there might be an opposition in there might be an opposition in the shape of a different opposition leader, sir ed davey . opposition leader, sir ed davey. >> it's a statistical likely. i think sam friedman was saying somewhere between 20 and 25. the other day. but actually, i think this belies a really important point. this feels like labour are plotting this victory party already. the tory party and this

is no disrespect to rishi sunak, who's bless him, had a tough campaign, they are on the ropes. labour are due to win, it looks like next week, with around 40 to 45% of the vote. that's not a majority of the country we should actually be thinking about. well, how do you have an effective opposition to government? well, actually, it's time to start thinking about voting reform. >> and yet and yet there was a referendum on voting. >> and you had you you had your vote on the that was the part of the deal for the coalition back in 2000. >> you know, you had your and you lost it asked the liberal democrats are in favour of second referendum. right. >> okay. but i don't i don't think you'd i don't think you'd win it. that's the trouble. and in some ways, you know, proportional representation on paperis proportional representation on paper is fairer. but of course, in practice the tail wags the dog. and so it's always got a coalition because i spent ten years in the european parliament where you saw a lot of those european governments under all sorts of interesting electoral

systems, and in the end, you just put 1 or 2 small parties in there that have an inordinate amount of power over the big party. so whether we're going to lose badly or whether we're not, i would still actually prefer to see first you spent neil, you spent five constituency mps as well. very difficult under proportional representation, to have that same constituency basis. and you do need to be constituency based. i could argue with you all day over representation, but actually i think we talk about sort of like actually different, different people having an opinion, which is sort of the essence of a democracy. >> i guess. but let's leave that aside for a second. you spent five years in coalition with us, and it was the best government of recent memory , it got a lot of recent memory, it got a lot of recent memory, it got a lot of positive stuff done. same sex marriage, pupil premium free school meals for 5 to 7 year olds. a record to be, i'm sure neil will agree, be very, very proud. >> can i just say that the labour party will need to think about voting reform doing that way?

>> because from your point of view, it didn't do you a lot of good when it came to the country. >> a lot of good. i think that election and that's why if you if it happened to be a hung parliament, which is not likely to be, you would never enter into another formal coalition, you would enter into some sort of supply and confidence vote, because it was such a nasty experience for you, was the one who would be on the negotiation committee. being on the federal board don't have time to delve into the negotiations. >> i'm afraid we have run to has been a lot of fun, but we've run to the end of the program. up next is the one and only mr mark dolan. mark what's up? >> well, a very busy show. >> well, a very busy show. >> nigel farage embroiled in a racism row with channel 4. even the prime minister is involved. i'll be giving my verdict. plus, is it game over forjoe biden? lots to get through. >> well, lots to get through. but thank you to my panel and indeed, look forward to mark dolan. that's up next. but not before your weather forecast . before your weather forecast. >> that warm feeling inside from

boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news afternoon. >> welcome along to your latest weather update from the met office here on gb news a fresher feel out there, certainly compared to earlier in the week. many of us having a fine end to the working week. it's just not particularly warm and it's still quite gusty across northern scotland. plenty of showers packing in here, 1 or 2 showers across southern scotland and northern england through the evening and overnight, but most places will be dry. some lengthy clear spells in the east, but it will cloud over further west dunng will cloud over further west during the early hours, staying quite warm under that cloud but with some clearer skies, will easily see temperatures dropping down into single figures. still quite breezy in northern scotland on saturday. a few showers here, but much of scotland dry and fine with some good spells of sunshine and plenty of sunshine across the south as well. a fine day to come for east anglia and the south east, but in these more central parts through wales, northern england, much more cloud and there will be some rain and drizzle too, particularly to the west of

northern england and across the northern england and across the north and the west of wales. some brighter skies across the north of northern ireland. sunny spells for most of scotland, but there will be more showers packing in across the far north. not as windy here as today, but still a noticeable and fairly chilly breeze . the cloud should chilly breeze. the cloud should tend to drift away from northern ireland through the day, so belfast brightening up through the morning along with parts of southern scotland but much of northwest england, north and west wales likely to stay fairly drab. some rain and drizzle, especially over coasts and hills and cooler here as a result. but some warmth across the south—east 24, maybe 25 celsius. only high teens further north but still feeling pleasant in the sunshine . by the time we get the sunshine. by the time we get to sunday, the cloud and the rain and drizzle will have supped rain and drizzle will have slipped further south, so a grey start across the southeast, but it should brighten up here. 1 or 2 showers here and there. some rain in shetland, but for many sunday's dry. quite a lot of cloud, but i think we'll still see some sunny spells coming through. but still on the cool

side for most, with temperatures generally only in the high teens. bye for now . teens. bye for now. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

>> from the world headquarters of gb news. this is friday night live with mark dolan. the weekend starts here, so bring your own drinks. the admission is free on tonight's show. could the reform race round derail nigel farage's party days before the election? did joe biden make donald trump look like the new abraham lincoln last night, as another middle aged star faces the axe? what ever happened to old people on tv and is glastonbury a festival of hypocrisy ?