655955 assess the here tonight to assess the election fallout. ben leo is back as well. he's been doing his bit for climate change and completing the line up in our first ever show under a labour government. the brilliant broadcaster and commentator emma webb. now, folks, you know the drill. each host outlines their arguments about a chosen topic. then we all pile in and it goes downhill faster than a tory cabinet members career prospects. and of course we want to know your views as well. please do send them in. post your comments by visiting gbnews.com forward slash yoursay and don't forget to get your questions in for ask the five. no topic is off limits, but before we start tearing each other apart, it's his saturday night news with tatiana sanchez . night news with tatiana sanchez. >> darren, thank you and good evening. the top story, sir keir starmer says rishi sunak's plans to send migrants to rwanda is

now dead and buried. speaking after the first meeting of his new cabinet, the prime minister ruled out the controversial scheme, which had failed to deport a single migrant. he also said labour's election victory has given them a clear mandate to govern in all four corners of the united kingdom . the united kingdom. >> look, the rwanda scheme was dead and buried before it started. it's never been a deterrent. look at the numbers that have come over in the first six and a bit months of this yeah six and a bit months of this year. they are record numbers . year. they are record numbers. thatis year. they are record numbers. that is the problem that we are inheriting. it has never acted as a deterrent. almost the opposite , because everybody has opposite, because everybody has worked out, particularly the gangs that run this, that the chance of ever going to rwanda was so slim, less than 1. >> the leader of reform uk, nigel farage, has reacted by claiming labour will struggle to deal with the issue of illegal immigration. >> what he said he would do it. at least he's kept a promise, i

suppose. look, rwanda was never going to work. what keir starmer is proposing , which is, you is proposing, which is, you know, tackle the gangs well , know, tackle the gangs well, frankly, you know, the last government were doing that for the last few years. it's not going to work at the minute. it's wild and windy, but we do have some pretty strong first hand accounts that as soon as we get a calm spell, they'll be crossing the english channel in their thousands. and let's face it, keir starmer does not have a plan to deal with it . plan to deal with it. >> former chancellor jeremy hunt >> former chancellorjeremy hunt has ruled himself out of standing for the tory leadership . standing for the tory leadership. when asked, he told gb news that the time has passed. he managed to hold on to his seat godalming and ash and has previously tried twice to become conservative leader. meanwhile, suella braverman has failed to rule herself out, simply saying that there were no announcements . there were no announcements. some breaking news in the last few minutes. the final seat in the general election has now been declared, with the liberal democrat party winning inverness, skye and west ross

shire. more on that as we get it to other news now police in tenerife say jay slater's family can bring in their own search and rescue teams to look for the missing teenager. and rescue teams to look for the missing teenager . the 19 year missing teenager. the 19 year old went missing on the 17th of june, after setting off on a walk back to his accommodation in tenerife, a journey which would have taken him around 11 hours. police called off the official search last week, but slater's mother says they will stay on the island to look for him in the united states, president biden is refusing to take a cognitive test to determine if he's in mental decline. in an exclusive interview with abc news anchor george stephanopoulos, he also dismissed calls for some democrats to step aside and let a younger candidate take on the republican donald trump . biden republican donald trump. biden has been attempting to defuse the political crisis over his shaky debate performance. he claims he simply had a bad night. >> he had the specific cognitive tests. and have you had a

neurologist, a specialist do an examination? >> no, no one said i had to. no one said. they said, i'm good. >> would you be willing to undergo an independent medical evaluation that included neurological and cognitive cognitive tests and release the results to the american people? >> look, i have a cognitive test every single day. every day i have that test. everything i do . have that test. everything i do. >> and it was a goalless first half for england as they take on switzerland in the euros football tournament. the three lions had some good chances in the first half, though, mainly through arsenal's bukayo saka's right channel. gareth southgate's men looking for a spot in the semi—finals. switzerland haven't beaten england in the past 13 attempts since 1981. the second half is now underway and the princess of wales has paid tribute to andy murray, saying he should be so very proud after he missed out on a final match at wimbledon. the former world number one, murray's wimbledon career is now

over after emma raducanu pulled out of their mixed doubles clash with stiffness in her wrist. the 37 year old scot made his final appearance at the all england club on thursday when he lost alongside older brother jamie in the men's doubles. he'll head off on holiday now with his family before preparing for the final event of his tennis career at the olympics in paris. final event of his tennis career at the olympics in paris . and at the olympics in paris. and those are the latest gb news headlines. for now, i'm tatiana sanchez. more in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code , alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com. >> forward slash alerts . >> forward slash alerts. >> forward slash alerts. >> thank you tatiana. it's saturday night folks, and you're with the saturday five. i'm darren grimes and i promise that you're in for more arguments and more argy bargy than you get at

a reform party press conference. we're going to crack on with tonight's first debate. and, well, to mark the dawn of this new era, for the first time in the history of the saturday vie, benjamin butterworth is going to lead us off. benjamin what might you like to discuss this evening? i wonder? well, good evening, comrades. we are now under a labour government. >> i'm sure it's not escaped anybody's notice that keir starmer has not just become prime minister, but he has seen the biggest shift in parliamentary history and actually he has the biggest majority in parliamentary history because although tony blair got a few more mps, there were more mps in parliament at the time . that is how big the time. that is how big starmer's victory was. there are no tories in wales. scotland is a labour heartland again. for the first time ever, cornwall has four labour mps there, more than the tories that had the whole place just a few weeks ago . whole place just a few weeks ago. we have a situation where there isn't a single tory in inner london, and i think this shows

the one thing that the people were calling for weeks, they said starmer was boring, that he was unexciting , that it was a was unexciting, that it was a bonng was unexciting, that it was a boring election. well, now the circus has left the town and i for one, could not be more grateful. now, ben, leo, you love a clown show? >> yes. i sit one next to one every week. it seems you must. >> you must think that, you know, at least we've got someone serious in charge. >> you know what? let me be honest. and, frank, let's lay our cards on the table. i am actually, positive, optimistic, and actually quite hopeful that we have someone like keir starmer in charge. he said he wants to govern for everybody, even if they don't vote. didn't vote for labour. his performance at the crown prosecution service was admirable . he was a public was admirable. he was a public leader who we should have been looking up to. and yeah, i'm very, very thankful we now have a labour government. >> are you joking? >> are you joking? >> yes, absolutely. keir starmer is a man who took the knee for black lives matter, the corrupt scam of an organisation that

promotes racial division. he's he's a man. let me finish. he's a man who finally decided the definition of a woman after taking advice from the bad smell that doesn't go away. tony blair, this is a man who flip flops and u—turns and doesn't know what day of the week it is. even if he's got a calendar smack bang in his face. well, you might think he doesn't know the definition of a woman, but he clearly knows the definition of a victory. yeah, sorry. let me let me just add to that a hollow victory which has been described as ocean wide and pond deep. >> and benjamin, you mentioned there that the circus has gone. i think the circus is just starting. and actually this government are going to bring a whole new meaning to the bearded lady act because their self id policy really does take us into new places. >> labour doesn't have a self id policy. yes it does, it does not. but look, i mean it it is. i'm obviously gleeful and relieved. i was 13 years old the last time a labour government was elected, and i stayed up

secretly all night to watch tony blair be returned to his rightful place in 10 downing street. and then my grandmother found me the next morning and was utterly bemused that i was so obsessed with with politics, let alone with the labour party. >> but so we have tony blair to blame for something else then a lot of a lot of a lot of my joys. >> the only time i ever skipped school was to watch gordon brown deliver a deliver a budget. that's how obsessed i was. but i'll be the tories are in their worst result ever, and they are already tearing themselves apart before the election result came in. now, let me say this. i genuinely think the reason that keir starmer has this majority is because, not because of a sort of ideological move in the country that hasn't happened. it's because he's serious and tries to look competent. do you realise that that's what the tories have lost and they've lost it for a long time? >> look, i think i'm furious about what's happened over the past couple of days with the election result that we saw. >> why your party, the lib dems, got more than 70 seats. >> that's very funny joke . but >> that's very funny joke. but if i was a lib dem, i'd be a lot

happier than i am now. currently ben. so maybe you can just forget about that stupidity for a second. i'm furious about rishi sunak's time in office. i'm furious about boris johnson's time in office. i'm furious about liz truss's time in office. the conservative party has completely destroyed its reputation over the last five years, and particularly over the last 2 or 3 years. you know, we have we oversaw the highest levels of net migration even highest levels of net migration ever. we have increased taxes to the highest point in, in, in, over seven in over 70 years. we've completely trashed, trashed our reputation of economic and fiscal responsibility with liz truss's awful mini—budget, which ben will. >> won't you leave liz out of this? >> still won't get it. >> still won't get it. >> she's she's not. >> she's she's not. >> and the one, the one shining light of the election the other day was that liz truss herself lost her seat, but surely isn't one of the reasons why the conservatives have lost so badly is because of their kind of liberal progressivism. >> they're not proper conservatives, and the country

doesn't chime with that. >> no, no, no, actually, i really if that's why you think the conservatives lost the election, i think it's one of diagnosing the wrong problem. the reason the reason why why the conservatives lost the election is because we lost our record on competence. we were fighting each other all the time. people making silly arguments like that and having arguments like that and having arguments over rwanda. and we just want me out. >> someone is taking this election defeat to heart, able to govern in an effective and proper way and focus on what the people wanted. >> and we ultimately did not deliver the people wanted. >> well, the people wanted was a conservative government. >> let me let me tell you now, if liz truss hadn't had gone so fast out the gates and, you know, scuppered her own success, the tories, your party would still be in power with liz truss under that conservative value. no. but because, because of, because of one nation wets like you. >> oh, shut up with the one nafion >> oh, shut up with the one nation wet nonsense. if we have an argument between the left and the right is meant to be about laboun the right is meant to be about labour, not a post—mortem. >> no, hang on it. >> no, hang on it. >> it does irritate me this

whole right. >> yeah. all right. >> yeah. all right. >> we've got to come together. >> we've got to come together. >> benjamin. >> benjamin. >> it's just nice to see a toy that's still got a seat. darren. the northeast. last time you said that, it meant a lot that they'd voted tory. i heard you speaking about this this afternoon with dawn neesom. they've obviously gone labour overwhelmingly. why do you think thatis? >> well, the second very in places like gateshead, in sunderland, in durham, north durham, especially the reform second place was a really healthy second place. so that really nipping away at the heels of the labour party , not just of the labour party, not just the conservatives. and i think that's the undiagnosed, part of that's the undiagnosed, part of that election and the results there that were had i think labour have also got to fear reform not just the conservative party. >> i mean, even the fact that, you know, the reform reform vote share was so high, higher than the lib dems who got more seats. i think it shows that actually what the people want is a conservative government but they don't have any viable options. they voted for reform reform have got some seats, but they don't have the chance of actually having a proper

conservative government. >> okay. >> okay. >> which has no higher than ukip was in 2015. >> right. we'll have to leave that one there. up next though. well, who is up next? >> i believe it's me, darren. oh so yeah, in the aftermath of the labour election victory, i was cunous labour election victory, i was curious to see the response of all, well, the mainstream media, the left leaning media, the twitterati, the chatterati, all the media classes and actually the media classes and actually the fawning over sir keir starmer . the cabinet starmer. the cabinet appointments left me stunned, if not quite embarrassed for them. so i think we've got some clips ready. this is the bbc's andrew marr , talking about. well, take marr, talking about. well, take a look. i'm talking about sensible government. just hours into sir keir starmer's tenure. have a look, >> you look at the chaos going on in the continent, particularly in france. you look at the chaos likely ahead in the united states and suddenly, for once, for the first time in many of our lives, actually, britain looks like a little haven of peace and stability, and that in itself is going to draw money

into this country. >> come on, andrew, i respect you a lot, but that's not analysis. about ten hours into a new government, you can't describe it as a piece of a haven of peace and stability. it's an absolute joke. this was the reaction on election night when sky news announced their exit poll. listen to the response. >> whoa whoa oh my god. >> whoa whoa oh my god. >> 000. >> 000. >> yeah. i'm. you can see absolute filth . absolute filth. >> you could have been. you could have been guys mistaken if you were listening on radio. at least thinking you would tune to in something a bit more, covered your kids ears a bit more x—rated and just a couple more things. these kind of tweets online. this is, left leaning campaigner marina purkiss, who said that on the appointment of a cabinet minister yesterday, she almost or did cry tears of joy- she almost or did cry tears of joy. what does it say there? can you see that , darren?

you see that, darren? >> i can't, my eyes aren't that good, >> it brings a tear to the eye. ed miliband, the cabinet minister for net zero and energy security. she said this brings a tear to my eye. and one more from ian dunt. >> she talks about decency , >> she talks about decency, restoring decency. >> one more from, clearly left leaning journalist ian dunt , who leaning journalist ian dunt, who posted something similar. have we got that ? maybe not. no. we got that? maybe not. no. okay, well look, the general consensus is, is that this government's been in less than 24 hours. well, just over that now. and already the media can't hide their excitement. it's pathetic. it's embarrassing. and for people like marina purkiss, carol vorderman, they're not here to defend themselves, of course. but i just wonder if they're going to keep up the same level of scrutiny and hysterics. let's be frank, that they did the tories over the past couple of years. >> yeah, it says they're the grown ups are back in charge. i mean, if benjamin butterworth's happy, i don't think that can be remotely true. it looks like a sort of i think it looks like the supply teacher coffee room, not the cabinet room.

>> well, maybe you find the most state educated cabinet looking like that, but i think it's something we should be proud of. >> i don't know how you dare. mr >> i don't know how you dare. mr >> what do you mean by state educated looking people? >> no. it's the most state educated cabinet they've ever had. >> who cares where they're from? >> who cares where they're from? >> 27. >> 27. >> but why does anyone care about the form, what the skin colour is, who they want to sleep with, where they went to school, who cares? but are they capable of the job or not? >> well, i care that it looks like the country and i think they'll do a betterjob like the country and i think they'll do a better job than people were. half the cabinet almost went to eton at one stage, which was absurd. now when it comes to the media reaction, look, the fact that it's well, that was not positive. you know, andrew marr saying it, britain looks like a haven of peace is a perfectly reasonable analysis. not saying that that britain has fundamentally changed. come on. we look like a stable democracy when some of the other countries are. >> you must be joking. periods of a cabinet full of people like david lammy, who called donald trump when he was us president a nazi sympathiser, a racist and whatever else angela rayner, who liked to call the opposition scum, the education minister who

said that biological men with penises could still be in women's toilets. >> i think it's a real insight into the elite delusion that that, that that is where immediately where, oh, we're now living. we're already living. >> misunderstand the comment that andrew was making. actually, what he was saying was not really compared to other western liberal democracies, where there's a lot of upheaval, whether or not that is in france, whether that is in the netherlands, whether that's in germany, whether that's in italy, whether that's in the us. and we'll come on to this when we talk about proportional representation later, because of the large majority that keir starmer, the prime minister, has got, the uk, is more politically stable. as a matter of fact , stable. as a matter of fact, than other western liberal democracies at the moment. and that's the point. well, hang on, because i think actually the honeymoon period is going to be over pretty damn quickly. >> and i think that'll be over gaza. that's going to rattle on. i think there's going to be a lot of dissenting voices there. i think there are going to be arguments had about immigration and any moves to tackle immigration, because they'll be seen as unkind and all these other watchwords of the moment.

i think actually, this stability that you speak of will be will be very short lived indeed. >> one thing sir keir starmer does have, he's going to be gifted some very favourable economic gifts. so inflation is coming down. the bank of england are going to be reducing interest rates probably next month. in turn, that will reduce mortgage payments for millions of people. the cost of living is coming down. none of his doing, of course, this is all the work of course, this is all the work of the tories, but he'll take the win. >> political advantage that they have is that it's going to be easier for them to reform the nhs, because they don't have the political baggage they do. conservatives really do that as soon as i agree with them, as soon as i agree with them, as soon as i agree with them, as soon as they have to meet reality, whether it's dealing with, immigration and trying to do that without leaving the echr, they're going to face all sorts of practical problems when they actually have to govern. they've been in office for one day. all right. >> can i just point out immigration is also going to fall quite considerably because things like ukraine and hong kong, which was a big chunk of the numbers, have, you know, not having anything like the numbers of people who've tightened the rules last year. >> that wasn't actually a factor. but, ben, can you just

so last week, viewers may well be remember that we predicted what the election result may well be. it was i'll be benjamin and myself. i wasn't here, ben leo wasn't here. he was abroad emitting co2 and the formula, this box that reveals what we predicted. so we'll see how. who was the most correct? i can't remember what the. here we go. right. get. get on with it. >> i feel like i'll try and try and do it ceremoniously. so here we go. so benjamin, you said on your prediction last week that the general election result would be labour 4 to 5. won tory 30, lib dem 45. reform three, and forget the rest. green two. that's pretty much nailed on, isn't it? >> yeah. >> yeah. >> very good. i know you all think that i sit here without a clue about what's going on in the world, but i got the maths wrong on mine. >> you were miles wrong on the liberals. >> darren grimes said labour 420. what did labour get for 411? okay, not bad. >> 12 for 12 tories 80 lib dems. >> 12 for 12 tories 80 lib dems. >> it says 550 but i think you

meant 55. yes >> i was very generous to ed davey , davey, >> and reform 12, which is so pretty close. again nice. i hope you two both put a bet on prize for this. >> which of you gets closer? >> which of you gets closer? >> i actually can't remember what we said. the price. whose is this? >> alby's? alby said lib dem 500. n0, >> alby's? alby said lib dem 500. no, i'm joking. you said labour 400. >> he did get the maths wrong. conservative >> conservative 200. very optimistic. alby, lib dems 50 and reform three. well i'll be locked. >> well, it looks like for the second time this week, i win . second time this week, i win. >> i was close, i was close, well done, well done. >> come and ring up benjamin butler. >> all right. >> all right. >> my friends, i hope you at home did it better than we did. but still to come tonight. what does the rise of sectarianism in politics mean for the new government? and will ask if rishi sunak has left a lasting legacy. but next reform uk one. well, a 14% of the vote at the election, but only four seats do

we need reform of our electoral you're with the saturday five live on gb

welcome back to the saturday five. as always. thank you very much for your messages , about the show. your messages, about the show. mike says still haven't figured out which is more boring. starmer or english football. well that's a good one. still

nil. nil. but of course, between england and switzerland, by the way, alex says wow , how biased way, alex says wow, how biased is this panel ? what a way, alex says wow, how biased is this panel? what a soul. lot of soul loses god i agree. well, ernie says if 34% of the vote is an historic win, what would 52% of the vote be? yeah, given the brexit vote. indeed. indeed indeed. now though , it's time indeed. now though, it's time for our next debate. i'm going to abuse the position of the chair to lead off this next segment. now labour without even cracking 50% of the popular vote. it now holds a soviet style majority in the house of commons. president putin, he's looking on with envy the grab 34% of the vote, yet secured nearly three quarters of the seats. the lib dems got 12% of the vote and 11% of the seats. but reform uk, with over 4 million votes and 14% of the vote share, secured a measly 1% of the seats. we're told that our first past the post system bnngs our first past the post system brings stability. well, i tell you what, this isn't stability.

it's an electoral dictatorship where the uni party, which are two cheeks of the same ugly old behind, are protected . the behind, are protected. the conservative and the reform bought together actually secured a higher share of the vote than labour alone. yet their seat share doesn't reflect this. so i say first past the post is breeding voter apathy, disillusionment and disempowerment. it really, really is time for reform now. ben leo, i don't know your position on proportional representation. do you agree with me that this election was totally stacked against the public? >> yeah, i agree with you. there's a uni party, you've got the conservatives, you've got laboun the conservatives, you've got labour. every decade or so they'll change, change colours. but really it's the same team behind the scenes. just a different manager. and the fact that reform and even ukip back in the day can get 4 or 5 million votes and a paltry number of seats in parliament, is nothing short of a scam. so reform in name , reform in reform in name, reform in nature. hopefully people, you

know, the lib dems, the greens perhaps will get on board with reform over the next five years and really push again for another vote, because i know we had 1 in 2011, which was at the time rejected. all right, here we go. >> i'm throwing myself into the lion's den because everybody else disagrees. emma, i'll start with you. >> i don't normally disagree with each other, do we? darren. no, i understand the arguments for it because time and time again we do see, you know, you get a large vote share and it doesn't translate into seats. and it seems obviously unfair that the lib dems should get so many seats with less votes than the reform party. and the disparity being so huge between five seats and over 60 seats. but at the same time, i think my for me, the issue with with pr is that firstly, when you look at the way that it functions in other countries like the netherlands, you don't always end up with the most democratic situation because you end up with all sorts of coalitions, and sometimes it's the smaller parties going into coalition for the against the party that more people voted for, and also the other aspect of this is that it's , it has a constitutional it's, it has a constitutional bafisin

it's, it has a constitutional basis in our, in our country's history. and so i think having the representation of a particular area is very important to, to making sure that the vote is actually tethered to the people rather than just being sort of like on a list where whoever gets for example, when i lived in london, right, i lived in battersea and i had written to my mp a couple of times when i was under unfairly chased by the electoral commission, which you will remember and no reply whatsoever . remember and no reply whatsoever. >> how is that a connection to my constituency? is that link not broken? a lot of viewers at home might not know who their mp. >> the point is that it would make it worse. so actually there are some bad constituency mps. i've experienced bad constituency mps who don't really care very much for the people that they're supposed to represent, and you get this more and more in parliament, where people mps will want to represent a certain issue like gaza for example, rather than focusing on their local area. but that's a problem with first past the post working properly, not a problem with first past the post as such, and i think proportional representation,

particularly if it's done badly, has the potential to make the situation even worse and to make it less representative , not more. >> rb i hear the argument about what other european countries look like . israel would be look like. israel would be another one where proportional representation creates divisions within parties that are trying to form these coalitions, etc, etc. but many would argue, well, hang on a minute. we had that in 2010. we actually arguably had it in 2017 as well. britons are already voting like we have proportional representation. >> i'm not sure what makes you think britons are voting because like we already have proportional representation. look what i actually thought the coalition government in 2010 to 2015 was probably one of the most effective governments of the last ten years, to be honest. certainly on cutting taxes and reforming your education and jo white. but, but but it was these are just facts. it was more right wing than the conservative government after the coalition. so but the point on political stability is an important one, because these coalition governments that come

into power in countries that have more proportional systems, like germany, like italy, like spain, it takes months for them to form a government. so we could have had an election whenever it was on the fourth of on the 4th of july. it could have taken months in order for the coalition partners to come together and form a government. all of this political instability, the constituency link point that emma makes is a very important one. and actually what we get with first past the post are one party strong , post are one party strong, stable governments compared to coalition governments with lots of instability, which aren't necessarily reflective. well, again, 2010 and 2015. >> but benjamin, i wonder a lot of the viewers may well be of the view. well, i want the men and women that i voted for in the room saying to the government, this is the direction i think you should go in holding their feet to the fire within these coalition setups. would that not be more democratic than the current setup, where we've got 34% of the vote and all those seats, three quarters of the seats. so

this might sound peculiar at first, but i think the labour result shows you the power of first past the post, because although you can simply look at the percentage and say, well, is that fair? >> and it is actually the same, roughly, just slightly better, i think, than what jeremy corbyn got a couple of years ago. the difference is that back with jeremy corbyn, and arguably with the way nigel farage does politics, you have these ideologues that pile up votes in inner cities in the case of the labour party, and the same people that think in the same way. the reason that labour got 410 seats this time, not 202 seats, is because keir starmer's votes were stretched across the country. he had to reach into middle england, he had to reach a lot of white working class people who'd left the labour party in recent elections, and that was because of first past the post. if we had pr, then jeremy corbyn, certainly in 2017, 18, you know, could have got much closer if not take power. and i don't think that's good because it doesn't doesn't this forces a political party to

reflect the breadth of the country. i'd also say emma's absolutely right about the constituency link. truly, i hate to say it, but you know, andrew rosindell, who's just been returned as the conservative mp for romford, you know, there is an example of someone that would only want to represent that area. >> he's actually who i had in mind as one of the best constituency that could possibly be exactly. >> and i found one out of 650. >> and i found one out of 650. >> but there are actually there are plenty like that. you know, most a lot of politicians aren't grand careers, and i think we're better off for that system. >> okey doke. i'll leave it to the viewers to decide. what do you think? do let us know. but still to come tonight, rishi's reign is over. how will it be remembered? let me know what you think on that next of all, though, pro—palestine mps have become the sixth largest party in parliament. how much of an issue is this set to become? they're of course, independent mps. with the saturday five live on

welcome back to the saturday five as even back to the saturday five as ever. thank you very much for your messages about tonight's topics. dawn says the media responses to labour win confirms all our allegations. we know bias whenever we see it and hear it. we are not fools and are sick of mainstream media teachers. excuse me , i think teachers. excuse me, i think that's aimed at benjamin butterworth, but jenny says hilarious. finally, a labour government, which is stocked with sensible people rather than toffs and you lot moan about the media and call for changes to the voting system. and then there was a very good email. i just clocked from, marianne, who says you effectively get a coalition already with first past the post liberals doing back door deals with the labour party. what is the difference ? party. what is the difference? so, right now it's time, though , so, right now it's time, though, for our next debate. who is going next? >> me. oh, little old me. >> me. oh, little old me. >> well, some of you may remember that back in march,

george galloway, when he won his seat in rochdale, said that the next general election would be about muslims. and i think many people seem to have forgotten that. but the statistics from the polls actually very interesting. labour's vote is down an average of 23 points in areas where muslims make up over 20% of the population and we've seen throughout the campaign with jess phillips, for example , with jess phillips, for example, that her campaign was dogged by intimidation from pro—palestine campaigners. and we'll throw to a clip of that shortly . but a clip of that shortly. but first, just to go through some of the seats that have gone to the independent pro—palestine pro gaza, campaigners, we've now got mps in perry barr , leicester got mps in perry barr, leicester south blackburn, the new constituency of dewsbury and batley. no surprise there. perhaps because that's if you remember where the teacher is still in hiding. after showing a

cartoon of muhammad in a school lesson, and this is really significant because this is the first time that we've seen independents like this running on the same ticket, effectively becoming a party joined together by a particular cause. so let's just throw to that clip of jess phillips talking about what it was like campaigning in her area. >> it was an absolutely horrible campaign, the most aggressive, most intimidatory , not just of most intimidatory, not just of me, but of the people in my constituency, people being intimidated, people being told that god, will judge them if they vote a certain way, which is an electoral offence, and, yeah, it's been pretty awful. some of my activists had their tyres slashed on election day. >> now, jess phillips only just managed to scrape by in that vote. and wes streeting as well, in ilford north, only just scraped by with a number of labour mps having huge chunks taken out of their majorities by

these independent pro gaza campaigners. another mp in birmingham, shabana mahmood, labour mp, faced the same kind of intimidation in her campaign and described it as an assault on democracy when masked men disrupted one of their community meetings. so, albie, do you think that this is going to be a much more of a problem for the labour party than it would be for the conservatives? >> i think the problem for the conservative party is, is a different one. the problem for the conservative party is the reform party. and what we have seen at this general election is a return to multi—party politics. it's not just labour versus tory in this new administration that we have in the houses of parliament. it's these pro gaza independents who i really disagree with the way that they are going about promoting that cause, though it's an important cause that people feel very strongly about. you've got the greens that have now got four mps, you've got the liberal democrats that have now got 72 mps. as of today, you've got 72 mps. as of today, you've got reform with five mps, the snp and plaid cymru kind of a

little bit more irrelevant now. but the point is we've got this return to multi—party politics and that is going to mean that there are some people in parliament that actually we don't like very much, but we can't more than that. we can't we can't say, we can't say one thing on one side. it's great that we've got five reform mps andifs that we've got five reform mps and it's terrible that we have pro gaza independence. >> it's dangerous sectarianism, isn't it? >> it's not that there are people i don't like. right. i've had 14 years of people i don't like being in parliament. these people are fascists. they just don't look like the ones that we're told to be afraid of all the time. they are fanatics. they are dangerous. they are against the spirit of democracy because they use intimidation and whipping up their own community. and i condemn that intimidation. >> but they were voted in by democratic means, and people would make the same argument. argument about reforming you. >> sorry. can i just say ms3 you could democratically elect tommy robinson if he wished to run. right. and i would still say that was dangerous and terrifying. these people are dangerous and terrifying , and i

dangerous and terrifying, and i want to know where the funding and organisation is coming from. but benjamin, they should look at whether iran is behind. >> darren. if this was another group of people, they would be, you know, treated as benjamin was saying that people would be calling them fascists, wouldn't they not? >> i would like jess to actually. and by the way, i think it's an absolutely abhorrent. and as much as i disagree with jess politics, i think that this is unacceptable. the shouting and intimidation that was. >> so why doesn't she call it out then? she has not she has not identified these people. >> well, hang on, why hasn't? why doesn't she identify the threat to democracy? and i think she needs to actually call it out, because this is what is happening throughout our country in population, in muslim populations around the country. and i think actually she's got to be able to call it out. >> and, you know, they've made their bed so they've got a line. >> and do you know what people like jess phillips i feel yeah i multiculturalism arguing for multiculturalism arguing for multiculturalism not judging other people's values. >> and so on. and then when,

when, when these people see protesters, these people are to blame. >> people like jess phillips, who can't even call out the kind of people who are abusing her, people like jonathan ashworth, who lost his seat . sorry, sorry. who lost his seat. sorry, sorry. no. yes. jonathan ashworth , he no. yes. jonathan ashworth, he denied there was even a problem with sectarianism or multiculturalism. and you. this is very different to benjamin culturalism you. >> there are many millions of people. you sit there week after week advocating open borders. >> and then and then a minute later you say, oh, hang on a minute, what's going on here? we've got some pretty unsavoury types in the country. open borders. yes you do. >> there are the vast majority of people in this country, of which there are many, many millions who are of a ethnic minority or recently from another country are not like these people. benjamin. there are swathes, swathes of this country, cities and towns now who are full of these people. don't don't try and blame jess phillips, a woman who has just took on what sounds like a horrific fight against these people, and one i agree was really gutsy in her acceptance. >> she's not she's not gutsy enough to call it out, isn't it? >> worrying, though, that her majority is being cut to down 700 votes, like they've taken a

massive chunk out of her majority, did she not? >> she said in her response to the guy shouting at her at her election count. she said, you might want to shout down a woman. and i wanted to say, well, jess, why is it they want to shout down a woman what is their problem with women? >> you do think it's a little hypocritical, isn't it? because they they are not the people who stood up for muslim women when muslim women are being oppressed. >> i quickly say one thing. most of the people they defeated were muslims, right? they they evicted the first muslim elected in this country who was a pro a ceasefire. it's not good enough to say this is palestine. khalid mahmood, that mp that was thrown out. he said, this isn't about palestine. this is a fig leaf for extremism. within that community. >> all right. we'll leave that there still to come tonight. we'll hear from a supermodel who was cancelled and former tory mp steve baker will be here to tell us what next is for the conservative party. but next it's all over for rishi sunak as prime minister. has he managed to leave behind any sort of legacy? with the saturday five

break. welcome back to the saturday five. your emails and messages are coming in about pr. john says switzerland is more stable than the united kingdom. and it has pr germany has a few problems forming a government. yet i think there are examples that we can replicate or even come up with something a little bit different. who knows? now though, it's time for our next debate. who is up next? >> only one left and that's me . >> only one left and that's me. rishi, rishi, rishi, what a disappointment you turned out to be. you had it all when you were the chancellor. you had good looks. you were giving everyone money. with furlough. you had this cool, calm and competent demeanour about you that everyone was quite excited about . everyone was quite excited about. the country sighed a sigh of relief when you took over from liz truss in october 2022, and then you threw it all away. you called a general election six

months earlier than you had to and lost it monumentally. you made stupid decisions like trying, trying and failing to ban smoking. you cancelled the northern leg of hs2 two and totally abandoned the notion of levelling up. and that led to your historic defeat this year. what will your legacy be? i'm just not sure. but you've actually been so bad in office. i'm now convinced that you were a diversity hire. >> whoa, whoa whoa. >> whoa, whoa whoa. >> do you agree? >> do you agree? >> i didn't expect that . >> i didn't expect that. >> i didn't expect that. >> expecting that, i though. >> expecting that, i though. >> well, you sound like, keir starmer opening his speech yesterday saying, you know, he was the first british asian pm and what a, you know, a great testament it was to his, you know, his ambition to get through that. >> but look are you saying the opposite. >> you make a, you make a you said there that the country breathed a sigh of relief when rishi sunak was, you know, ushered in in a coup to become prime minister. no they didn't. i don't know what country you were in, but the members, the real world, the members didn't for vote rishi sunak.

>> i didn't say the members. i said the country. and actually, we're not just talking about the conservative party here. and liz truss. >> for now, even the tory party members didn't want rishi sunak very positive favorability with the general public. >> if you look at all polling in october 2022, look at it. it's a fact. maybe you didn't like him, but it's true. but the problem was he then threw it all away afterwards. so do you agree that rishi was so bad in office that maybe he was a diversity hire? >> no. i think you're being ridiculous. i think the tories threw it away. it wasn't rishi sunak rishi sunak actually , i sunak rishi sunak actually, i think was fairly, fairly competent and capable in the last sort of six months or so, he was picking up the messy pieces of what lay before him. the tories threw it away when they got rid of boris johnson. all those new mps, boris helped get elected. they stabbed him in the back. >> he was the same thing all over again. he's just a continuity candidate. exactly. with diversity, they just wanted somebody who was exactly like everything that came before. not a conservative. >> you say that rishi sunak was good looking and handing out money. i think you confuse wanting a sugar daddy for wanting a sugar daddy for

wanting a sugar daddy for wanting a prime minister and by this point, i think the country was firmly, you know, waking up with the fag ash breath and the hangover and just wanted rid of the lot of them. i did not know what you were going to say there. >> i know this segment is really taking a turn. >> i think the question of what is his legacy is a great one, because i genuinely don't think he has a legacy. you know, we thought theresa may hadn't achieved much, but i think sunak has done even less. the only legacy he really has is the worst tory result ever, and i suggest he's not really responsible. >> smoking ban, which labour are going to pick up again. so everybody who breathes a sigh of relief that they're going to be allowed to, that's quite frustrating for me, is that his election campaign was so bad. >> everyone has actually forgotten that he got small boat crossings down by a third. everyone has actually forgotten that he did actually cut taxes, that he did actually cut taxes, that he did actually cut taxes, that he has made immigration rules more strict that he did so. but albi the ireland issue. >> so how was he? a diversity hire then? because you're saying he was actually good? >> no, i'm saying he was so bad. the election campaign was so bad, we forgot about any of the positive things that he did.

>> but are we? the conservatives were finished long before rishi sunak even came into office. and again, i don't want to i don't want to keep going on on the same point of you. but it was tories like you who who ignited this whole bonfire with boris johnson. it didn't matter who followed after boris. the whole thing was a betrayal, a betrayal of that 2019 vote. a betrayal of the red wall voters of brexit. the plans to get brexit done. >> prime minister, was it that we saw immigration go up to record highs? >> well, he betrayed us i agree, i agree with that. boris johnson, boris johnson. >> darren, do you think sunak's legacy will be reform and the reform ification of the tory party? because that door is now wide open. >> i don't think that i think actually you can blame it on every prime minister that we've had and we've had a few are, as in the reform ification of, of the country. i actually think that the conservative party itself has opened up this door because in 2019, who here would have ever guessed that nigel farage would be in parliament? right? that, to me, would have

seemed totally alien at that time. we thought boris was invincible. we were saying he'd be in power for ten years, sort of maggie esque, and what did he do? well, he. i'm afraid we were utterly left wanting and begging, even . and the begging, even. and the conservative party is going to take need to take a lot of soul searching and a lot of time to actually build up that trust . actually build up that trust. >> again, it's not even that deep or complicated. you don't need to be a political mastermind to understand what happened.the mastermind to understand what happened. the public, the country loved boris johnson. he was stabbed in the back, and then tories who thought they knew best the tory wets, the one nation, tories who were not conservatives at all. and there's no fibre in their being, which is conservative. and you just what you're talking about, you don't you literally don't know what you're talking about. your party has just been obliterated at an election cabinet minister to stab boris on the back in the in the back on the back in the in the back on television. >> rishi sunak suella braverman. she did it on robert peston. so get your facts right before you say it's tory wet. that brought down boris johnson. the whole tory party overreacted by ousting your party. the wet and

the dries together. >> you sound a bit like the corbynites who were like corbyn wasn't left enough. >> okay, right. >> okay, right. >> well, leave that. their sense is that loads more to come tonight on the show tonight , tonight on the show tonight, including big interviews with cancelled supermodel jason morgan and former tory mp steve baker on what the future holds for the tories now. plus, in, ask the five bunch of five, even noel gallagher has kicked off. find out more after the break. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news hello! welcome to your gb news weather update from the met office as we go into sunday it's a case of showers once again. sunny spells and still feeling on the cool side for the time of year. we've got this area of low pressure moving out towards the east and driving north westerly winds, so bringing that fresher feel for

sunday. but it's turning dry across parts of england to through this evening with some late evening sunshine clear spells elsewhere but a few showers mainly coming into western parts of england and into wales and north western england as well. but still temperatures around 10 or 11 degrees, but under the clear skies across scotland could dip down into the mid single figures. so to start sunday morning then we've got plenty of showers coming in towards the southwest of england into wales. these could be heavy at times as well. driest further towards the east with some bright sunshine here but some heavy showers , here but some heavy showers, possibly thundery across north western england as well . sunny western england as well. sunny spells, scattered showers across northern ireland but drier but fresher to start on sunday morning across parts of scotland, with some outbreaks of rain across orkney and shetland as we go through sunday morning and into the afternoon. those showers will continue to push their way eastwards, turning heavy at times and becoming more widespread as we go through. the

day could turn thundery at times across southern parts of scotland, northern england and central england as well. but we have got lighter winds out there compared to today, so that will help lift the temperatures just slightly, perhaps feeling a bit warmer 19 or 18 degrees, but a little bit warmer in scotland to a fresh start to monday morning. plenty of dry weather. first thing we'll start to see some showers breaking out across northern parts of england and scotland, but another area of low pressure towards the south, bringing cloudier skies and outbreaks of rain. and that sets the scene really through monday , the scene really through monday, tuesday and wednesday, with outbreaks of rain . temperatures outbreaks of rain. temperatures generally around average. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb

>> it's saturday night and this is the saturday five. you'll be delighted to know. or maybe not. that no one was harmed during the commercial breaks. i'm darren grimes, along with albie amankona emma webb , ben leo and amankona emma webb, ben leo and benjamin butterworth. we've got plenty more to come tonight, including big interviews with the us supermodel who was cancelled over his right wing views, and steve baker, former tory mp, on what the future holds for the beaten conservatives. plus what's

likely to be a heated debate between albion, ben in our saturday scrap, locking horns over the merits of england manager gareth southgate. it's 7 pm. and this is the saturday five. and in bunch of five who will win the battle of the downing street? cat and has emma raducanu let us all down by pulling out of her wimbledon doubles match alongside andy murray. we of course know who won the downing street battle. then we'll be answering your questions in ask the five. please do send them through to gb news.com for accuracy. but first, it's your saturday night news with tatiana sanchez .

news with tatiana sanchez. >> darren. thank you. let's start with england. and they face the prospect of penalties tonight after a one. all draw has taken them to extra time with switzerland at the euros. after a goalless first half, switzerland got onto the scoresheet first, but not for long as arsenal's bukayo saka levelled on 80 minutes. gareth southgate's men looking for a spot in the semi—finals now two 15 minute halves, will now determine who progresses or, of course, penalties . sir keir course, penalties. sir keir starmer says rishi sunak's plans to send migrants to rwanda is now dead and buried. speaking after the first meeting of his new cabinet, the prime minister ruled out the controversial scheme, which had failed to deport a single migrant. he also said labour's election victory has given them a clear mandate to govern in all four corners of the united kingdom. >> look, the rwanda scheme was dead and buried before it started. it's never been a deterrent , look at the numbers deterrent, look at the numbers that have come over in the first

six and a bit months of this yeah six and a bit months of this year. they are record numbers . year. they are record numbers. thatis year. they are record numbers. that is the problem that we are inheriting. it has never acted as a deterrent. almost the opposite , because everybody has opposite, because everybody has worked out, particularly the gangs that run this, that the chance of ever going to rwanda was so slim, less than 1. >> the leader of reform uk, nigel farage, has reacted by claiming labour will struggle to deal with the issue of illegal immigration. >> what he said he would do it. at least he's kept a promise, i suppose. look, rwanda was never going to work. what keir starmer is proposing , which is, you is proposing, which is, you know, tackle the gangs well , know, tackle the gangs well, frankly, you know, the last government were doing that for the last few years. it's not going to work at the minute. it's wild and windy, but we do have some pretty strong first hand accounts that as soon as we get a calm spell, they'll be crossing the english channel in their thousands. and let's face it, keir starmer does not have a plan to deal with it.

>> former chancellor jeremy hunt >> former chancellorjeremy hunt has ruled himself out of standing for the tory leadership. when asked, he told gb news that the time has passed. he managed to hold on to his seat godalming and ash and has previously tried twice to become conservative leader. meanwhile, suella braverman has failed to rule herself out, simply saying there were no announcements and the princess of wales has paid tribute to andy murray, saying he should be so very proud after he missed out on a final match at wimbledon. the former world number one, murray's wimbledon career is now over after emma raducanu pulled out of their mixed doubles clash with stiffness in her wrist. the 37 year old scot made his final appearance at the all england club on thursday, when he lost alongside older brother jamie in the men's doubles . he'll head the men's doubles. he'll head off on a family holiday now before preparing for the final event of his tennis career at the olympics in paris. event of his tennis career at the olympics in paris . and those the olympics in paris. and those are the latest gb news headlines. for now, i'm tatiana

sanchez. more in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . slash alerts. >> thanks, tatiana. it's saturday night, folks, and you're with the saturday five. i'm darren grimes, and i can promise that you're in for another very lively hour. we're going to crack on with tonight's first big interview. we've got two tonight. a real treat in an industry dominated by women. jason morgan was once one of the few men who genuinely deserved the title. supermodel he's fronted campaigns for everyone from ralph lauren to emporio armani underwear, and was a regular on cover of magazines such as gq regular on cover of magazines such as go and cosmopolitan . but such as go and cosmopolitan. but his life changed dramatically,

folks, when he posted a photograph of himself with then fox news host tucker carlson. now, this photograph was taken at donald j. trump's florida resort, mar a lago. now to tell us what happened next, i'm delighted to welcome jason morgan himself. good evening. jason, you're really here to make all of us feel thoroughly inadequate. but i wonder, jason , inadequate. but i wonder, jason, could you tell us the story of how this snap being released, what it actually did to the trajectory? i guess that your career was actually on. >> yeah. well, this is back in 2020, right before covid in march . and, i had met trump and march. and, i had met trump and i had been a trump voter, but i kind of didn't share it on my instagram . so when i, met him, instagram. so when i, met him, l, instagram. so when i, met him, i, i posted it on my instagram and i lost like 20,000 followers right away . and work work

right away. and work work started to dry up quite a bit in america, but then it just snowballed from there because then covid happens. >> do you wish you hadn't? do you wish you hadn't like come out, as it were? do you wish you had actually kept your politics quiet? because, you know, that's the depressing state of affairs that we're in. >> you know . no, i don't, >> you know. no, i don't, because, i met so many good people by just being honest on social media before i kicked off, and it led me on on the right path . and my path is much right path. and my path is much different right now. and of course , i'm, i, i'm not making course, i'm, i, i'm not making as much money, but there's more important things than money. >> jason, what's next for you? you know, you are one of the iconic male supermodels. i think it's only david gandy who has been on been on as many magazine covers as you. so what's next? >> i don't know about that. there's a lot there's lots of

guys that did a lot more than me, but i'm actually still working. i work, i'm in poland right now working. and, i just worked in norway, so there's, there's certain markets that that still use me. it's just the us . it's been that still use me. it's just the us. it's been kind of tough. >> and what do you think has happenedin >> and what do you think has happened in america to, to the united states for that to become the case? >> you know, the cancel culture vultures are really, really quite powerful in the us of a today they are , i feel like it's today they are, i feel like it's a number of things. >> it's not it's not just me being cancelled. i think, they're not using white models. really anymore. covid changed a lot of things with the industry and it the us is really, it's kind of weird right now with the with the market. they're not using beauty at all. there's just a, it seems to be a war against beauty and any kind of

way. and, so i can't really say me being a trump supporter and me being a trump supporter and me being a trump supporter and me being against covid and blm or whatever is the reason why i'm working. i'm sure it has a reason i'm not working. i'm sure there's a lot to do with it, but i don't think it's everything. but there's a lot of, i guess. >> jason, sorry to interject. it's ben leo i guess it's a culmination of the umbrella of what some would call i don't really like the word, but woke . really like the word, but woke. so whether you were quote unquote cancelled for coming out for supporting trump or because you're a white man because you're a white man because you're good looking, it all falls under the same thing, doesn't it? it's this, this engineering towards some manufactured social justice. >> yeah, exactly. that's exactly what it is. and i think, you know, people are waking up, you know, people are waking up, you know, you can say you're going to vote for trump in the next election and you're not going to get the same gasp that you would before. but, you know, i my

instagram was deleted , and instagram was deleted, and that's a big part of my business. so who deleted it for that to happen? >> i'm sorry. >> i'm sorry. >> who deleted it ? >> who deleted it? >> who deleted it? >> instagram instagram instagram deleted it. yeah. >> and do you think that's purely because of your politics? >> 100. yeah it's it started with the with trump. i started getting shadow banned and then, i started speaking out against blm. and then then covid came , i blm. and then then covid came, i started getting strikes for calling it the china virus because i knew it was it was came from a lab in china. and then , the lockdowns, i was then, the lockdowns, i was against the lockdowns, i was against the lockdowns, i was against the lockdowns, i was against the vaccines from the very start. and i probably i lost my account in october of, a year and a half ago. all right. so and that's, that's a huge part of my business. i had a quarter of a million followers and now i can't get back.

>> they would argue, of course , >> they would argue, of course, that the you know, the china virus theory isn't proven, but also meta. i contacted meta, by the way, myself. i contacted them, they haven't replied. if they do reply, we will update viewers on that. but it does seem quite extraordinary. does it not? >> jason, did you did you knowingly walk into this? did you expect the implications of speaking out to be quite this extensive? did you sort of reason that it was worth paying the price ? the price? >> yeah , i knew i knew there >> yeah, i knew i knew there would be pushback for sure , but would be pushback for sure, but things were getting so outrageous and, so far from the truth, i felt like any anybody who had any kind of voice or platform needed to speak out and, i really i couldn't look myself in the mirror if i didn't speak because everyone in my industry was posting their black squares and like, go joe, biden

and trump sucks. he's a racist . and trump sucks. he's a racist. and i'm like, this is this is just crazy. you know, like , just crazy. you know, like, there can't be. and at that time nobody was speaking out, you know, like, yeah, there wasn't. you could count on one hand how many celebrities or even i mean, i'm, i'm nobody. i'm nobody knows who i am. >> that's not true. that's not true. you had hundreds of thousands of followers on these social media platforms. but, jason, we're going to have to leave it there. but i would say, you know, what a sad state of affairs. you've been proven right on some of these things. it would seem. and despite that, you know , that's it, i'm afraid. you know, that's it, i'm afraid. but jason morgan, thank you very much for giving us an insight into that. now folks, still ahead, we're going , well, i'm ahead, we're going, well, i'm going to actually get the panels in. benjamin, you were desperate to say something. >> well, i know he's gone now, so i can't ask it. no. >> well, no, we got very brief panel remarks. >> anyway, i think it's very sad that we're no longer able to disagree agreeably. i think we always disagree agreeably on

this panel every week that we do the show. and i think it's sad that in the real world that is getting less and less. >> i'd like to know what your question would have been. >> well, no, i mean, he's gone. so it's pointless. but obviously, you know, don't be so i know, i know what it's like as a beautiful white man to lose works. i >> what was the question? was it sensible? >> well, he's not here so. >> well, he's not here so. >> well, he is still on the line. he's gone . he has gone. line. he's gone. he has gone. you were asking for his number, i think. >> have we got any pictures of jason in his prime? yeah. >> no, he's . >> no, he's. >> no, he's. >> no, he's. >> no we haven't. >> no we haven't. >> i hope he managed to find a community on the other side though, because i think when people got cancelled right at the very beginning, it was probably worse than maybe if you get cancelled now, there are more people on the other side. >> but you know what? it took people like jason at the time to put their head above the parapet and say, you know, i don't agree with this. there's something wrong with black lives matter. there's something wrong with with this, or i don't agree with the lockdowns. it took very brave and courageous people.

only now, four years later, are people happy enough to, you know, say, oh yeah, no, i don't agree with that. but it took people like jason, the very brave few to do that. so props to cancelled over a picture. >> it was a photograph on instagram. he hadn't even said anything. it was just a picture and someone was in the background. that is persona non grata. >> insisting that he's still getting work in europe. but anyway, still ahead folks in bunch of five. has glastonbury gone, woke and can larry the cat survive his biggest challenge yet? but next it's all over for the tories as the party of government for the time being, of course. but what does the future hold? the former member of parliament, steve baker, will be here in the studio to give us verdict. you're with the

a very warm welcome back to the saturday five. now, as you well know , the conservative party has know, the conservative party has finished as the party of government for now. but here to discuss. this is the former

conservative minister and member of parliament for high wycombe. wasn't it? for 14 years, steve baken wasn't it? for 14 years, steve baker. good evening. good evening darren. >> thanks for having me on, >> thanks for having me on, >> no, thank you for coming in. now steve, i'm wondering, do you feel like the conservative party has let people down because that's what we hear from gb news viewers. so very often that they feel personally, quite betrayed. would you use that language? >> i try to avoid the word betrayed. i think that would be going too far. but plainly they feel let down in wickham. about half my voters didn't turn out. i had 26,000 votes at the last election, and only 11,000 people voted conservative. now, i lost part of my constituency, but even allowing for that, 10 to 12,000 people just stayed at home. and, you know, it wasn't reform's fault. reform did quite well, but those voters stayed at home and that's a big deal. and i don't think they stayed at home because of me. maybe they did, but i don't think so because i've turned out before. i think they stayed at home because of d—day, because of, bets placed and so on. and, you know, people expect high

standards in public life. and those things really let some people down. and, you know, there will be other factors. but i think staying at home was a sign that we just weren't offering them what they wanted. it is notable they didn't turn out and vote for reform either. yes. >> well, and i'll be i mean, do you think actually being a staunch conservative party supporter yourself, mps like steve losing his seat? i mean , steve losing his seat? i mean, did you predict that did you think this was going to happen ? think this was going to happen? >> well, look, i mean, i was most upset of any mp to lose their seat. it was it was my friend steve baker, i was devastated to hear that he'd lost his seat because i think he's probably one of the best tory mps that we had in parliament. and i hope he stays in public life. i do think there were actually a lot of a lot of conservative voters that stayed at home. some went to go vote for reform, some went to vote for reform, some went to vote for labour and the liberal democrats. we don't tend to talk about that so much. but steve, i'd like to know from you, looking towards the future of the conservative party, who do you think the next leader should be? you famously backed suella braverman in the last leadership

contest. will you be backing her again , again, >> well, no, but it's not actually my responsibility now, thankfully, because i'm not an mp, >> but presumably still a member. >> but presumably still a member. >> of course i am, yes. no, i shall remain a member of course i will. i shall remain a member of course iwill. i do shall remain a member of course i will. i do think that the conservative party is the best hope we have of good government. although this is a difficult moment to really reflect on that. but. yeah, i well, we'll wait and see. i'll be like anyone else, like any other member. i will be voting on the last two. but why don't you put some combinations to me and see what i say? >> kemi badenoch or robert jenrick? >> kemi versus robert . that's >> kemi versus robert. that's tricky. oh, that's a really, that's a cruel one. you probably kemi. >> tom tugendhat, priti patel, tom and i think we've named all the remaining tory mps. >> we have, but i just want to press on the suella a bit because we did a poll online and actually with gb news viewers, suella braverman is the most popular potential future tory leader. >> do you think her record in government and how recalled as a member of parliament and being a

politician, lends her to doing that role quite well or badly? >> well, it's a bit of a tricky question for me because i was very close to suella and we were friends. i don't want to be leaning into, you know, laying into her hard, but we parted ways over some of the language she used, which was too strident, as you know , i strident, as you know, i represent a very diverse community, and i think it's important when sensitive problems come up that we call out bad behaviour, but it's vital that we do it in a way which condemns individuals for their personal misconduct. so to say, rather than seeming to suggest that an entire community is guilty. we wouldn't accept that for the jewish community. we wouldn't accept it for black people. we shouldn't accept it when it's done in relation to muslims. so i'm afraid we parted company over the stridency of our language and, you know, i don't wish to get drawn too far down that i don't. i think she just some of her, the, some of the language is just ill advised and not appropriate for dealing with very sensitive. what about her record as home secretary? it's a bit unfortunate that we had such high immigration while

suella was home secretary. no doubt that was because some of herideas doubt that was because some of her ideas were resisted by number 10. but in the end, you know, if you're a home secretary, part of the skill is getting your policy through collective agreement. but, you know, as i say, i'm not now a member of parliament, actually, thank god, i'm glad it's over. and behind me, so are you genuinely. >> you mean that? >> you mean that? >> oh, i really do, darren. it's great to be free of it . yeah. great to be free of it. yeah. >> oh, yeah. >> oh, yeah. >> what is it that you you disliked about it? >> well, it's not that i disliked it. it'sjust it's >> well, it's not that i disliked it. it's just it's a very grave burden to represent 71, 75,000 people. you know, people are usually actively disinterested. and when they're not, they're very, very angry , not, they're very, very angry, typically, or they're in grave need. and it's a just a major burden. and, i'm happy i would have been to happy continue, you know, carrying that duty forwards. i was looking forward to it. but my goodness, to be steve, can i ask i forget which candidate, but one of one of the former tory mps said that it was so bad that half the mps couldn't even be in the same tea

room as their colleagues. >> was it that fractious? by the remaining years, the recent years? and also you just sort of leant into it . what's it like on leant into it. what's it like on your mental health to be in a situation that pressured and that divided? >> well, i talked about my mental health once before. i don't want to be a guy who talks a lot about his mental health, but i did talk about it with the times and that's well recorded. but that was really to do with the particular circumstances i faced. you know, i did what i did on brexit and i did what i did on brexit and i did what i did on brexit and i did what i did on covid to defend people's liberties. and it's a hell of a thing to have a broadcast list of 130 mps, and they're looking to you to tell them which way to vote in a rebellion that you've only just decided you're having, because the government tabled something late or whatever. and that's that's actually a responsibility that prime ministers don't have because they've got support, they've got time. so, you know, that was a problem. but this issue of mps not getting on with each other, i've not really exposed to, i've always made sure that i've personally cultivated relationships across the whole conservative party, possibly with one exception, but, you know, so i try to get on, but

it's vital to have positive relations. who was that? yeah. well, obviously. nadine. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> well, talking of nadine. steve, you in boris johnson's final days were a supporter of the then prime minister. you then you turned and said his time was up and you were part of the rebellion to oust him. do you know? well, do you regret that, >> no. so i wasn't part of any rebellion to ousting. i did stand up and say time was up, because i really did think it was. i mean, but but do you regret that now getting rid of bofis regret that now getting rid of boris johnson is seeing seeing the calamity that followed? i do not i did not remove boris johnson.i not i did not remove boris johnson. i didn't campaign against him. i said i thought he should go and i think that was right. and that was a reflection of my electors views. >> but do you not think going pubuc >> but do you not think going public and saying that at the time's up, he needs to go? i mean, that is equal to saying, you know, voting. i think i had a bigger effect on him and on the public debate than i expected i would have for a single intervention. >> and i suppose that's a

compliment. but he fell in the end because his handling of the pincher affair was unacceptable to his own ministers. and i was not one of them. those ministers resigned in a great avalanche out of his government, and whether people want him back for his charisma or not, you just can't be prime minister. if you're handling of crises, doesn't meet with the confidence of your ministers. so knowing what's happened over the past 48 hours, if you could go back to boris's time again, would you still call for him to go knowing a labour government would be coming? >> i four years later, think that boris, it was right that bofis that boris, it was right that boris went overall. >> but you can't keep somebody on just because they're charismatic. they've actually got to be good at governing. >> well, he's an election winner. >> yeah, but that's not enough. i'm sorry. this is a really important point. what kind of country do we want to be? do we want to be a kind of a country where the prime minister has the capacity to deliver, like rishi does? the ideology that steve rishi. >> rishi delivered? sorry, sorry to interject, but what rishi didn't deliver, he just lost you a massive election. >> so if you look at. well. so it looks, it depends which issue you look at. so for example northern ireland where i was

operating, i didn't negotiate the windsor framework. i don't like the hard compromises in it, but it has to be said that rishi sunak delivered on that. he absolutely gripped all the detail, built a team around himself and between us i did the apology that reset the relationship, that set the ground so that he could then sees the detail and deliver. and he did do it and he did it brilliantly. but what we need is both well, three things the charisma of boris johnson, the ideology of liz truss and the capacity to deal with detail that rishi sunak has. >> does nigel farage have that? no. >> nigel farage, i'm afraid i ought to be able to get on with him. but the problem with nigel and i remember going to a conference where i spoke after him. the problem with nigel is it's the curse of easy answers. he was suggesting at that conference that basically everything would be easy if only the conservatives would try. and it's such a seductive argument, but it's nonsense. all the problems we face are difficult if they weren't difficult, we'd solve them, that we'd solve them because we like getting elected. >> so what then, do you think? forget the conservative party for a moment. what do you think is the future of conservatism in

britain? if you don't, if you don't think it's the future is with farage and reform, but also we've seen obviously the conservative party haven't done haven't had their best showing. so what is the future of conservatives? >> well, the future of conservatism really requires us to take stock of the situation we're in, decide what objectives we're in, decide what objectives we're trying to reach, and then work out a plan to get there. it's really very straightforward. the situation we're in is whatever problems we've got. they weren't caused by government being limited , by by government being limited, by taxes being low by budgets being balanced or by debt being too low or even by money being too tight with high interest rates, because we haven't had those things. >> who's the actor there? is that a new party or is that a coalition? >> i'm sorry. this is a really important point. right. so if the problem is that we've had big government, high spending, lots of debt, qe big government, high spending, lots of debt, oe and cheap credit, that's that is not conservative economic policy. and the problem is we've i've said this in all the interviews i've done for 50 years. the western world's been living systematically beyond its means and using cheap credit and now qe to cover the gap. and you can't do that without

manufacturing mass injustice. this is why people can't afford houses. young people, particularly if you pump lots of cheap credit into houses. don't be surprised if the price soars, particularly when planning law constrains the supply of land. and so these these are disastrous policies. but in the end they arise because the state spends too much. so the future of conservatism actually is to face the real world as it is , face the real world as it is, which is that you can't spend more than you're earning in the long run. and your viewers know that, right? >> yeah. well, i mean, yes, but i think there will be a lot of you as steve that actually quite liked the language of suella braverman. >> for example, they support they quite like this idea of a more robust conservatism. just very briefly, what is it that you've got against that? >> oh, i haven't got anything against a robust conservatism . i against a robust conservatism. i don't think i've ever. >> they might argue that the, the, the way in which you communicate that is very much in the language of suella braverman. >> well, i think they're wrong. i'm sorry. i mean, i'm now not looking to get elected by people, but accusing people of going on hate marches isn't the

right thing to do, for example. so some of the people out there marching in relation to gaza clearly are hate filled, and clearly are hate filled, and clearly their behaviour should be condemned. but when i talk to some of the people in my constituency who are pillars of our community, just moral people, just people who believe in justice and morality and absolutely motivated by compassion for children, innocent children dying horribly, hospitals being bombed, people going without food, water and health care. those people do not deserve to be called hate marchers and it causes outrage when they are now. we don't have to all agree with one another to treat one another with civility. how we made the point about disagreeing well, and that's the problem, because if we have a leader of this country who uses divisive language as nigel farage has donein language as nigel farage has done in relation to muslims, as i'm afraid suella has done, that will only so really dangerous divisions. >> okay, we'll wrap that up there. thank you very much, steve baker. >> well thank you steve in. >> well thank you steve in. >> now coming up folks in the bunch of five has glastonbury gone woke and who will win the

battle of the downing street cats. it's all going on. plus has emma raducanu single handedly ruined wimbledon for everyone you're with the saturday five on gb news

welcome back to the saturday five. as always. thank you very much for your messages about tonight's topics. robert says the conservatives should have stayed with liz truss. she did have a true conservative budget, but knives came out and that was that for her, and my autocue has just done a runner, which is very , irritating. very, irritating. >> should i do the nigel farage raisi you can't speak for 30s off the top of your head and do you really love that country? >> yes. well, i can't predict what robert was saying. >> the knives came out for liz

truss. he says that we were wrong to get rid of her. sps says steve baker is wrong. the tory party have betrayed the trust we put in them. the biggest problem with the conservative party is they have absolutely no loyalty, either to their leader or to the electorate who put them in office. interesting remark. now though, it's time for this. i think somebody must have scored because i've just nearly jumped out of my body , out of my body, >> now it feels like we're at the football match. does actually it does. right what? >> alfie, what have you got for us? >> yes, in my bunch of five, i'm talking about one of our very own here at gb. news viewers might have been wondering where the wonderful katherine forster was yesterday. we would normally expect to see her outside number 10 reporting on these great political events, but actually she posted a thread on twitter describing an amazing story about her two eldest sons who should have arrived home

yesterday after a nine week week adventure across south east asia. but they didn't. they weren't on a flight. they'd actually gone to hike up a volcano. these are her two boys that you can see on the screen now . and they actually went now. and they actually went missing. they couldn't be get hurt . they couldn't be heard hurt. they couldn't be heard from for about 30 hours. and then eventually they were found very weak. but healthy. and now they've been found and they are safe . and thank god for that. safe. and thank god for that. were they lost, they were lost up this mountain, this volcano in south east asia. and they were found that they'd gone hiking , that they'd gone hiking hiking, that they'd gone hiking on. actually, the two boys said that they they managed to survive because of skills that they'd learned from watching bear grylls on the television and scouts. and so actually those skills from that, you can learn doing those sorts of things are really important. why is it because in life and death situations, it feels like it can save your life. >> it feels like everyone's going abroad and getting lost on walks or, you know, probably everybody's used to being in their houses. >> they've not nobody's used to travelling anymore. >> i think the world's gone mad.

>> i think the world's gone mad. >> and i think katherine said, who was of course, one of our political correspondents, she said that mama's had a few words that you do not go up mountains without a guide. and there's a lesson for us all. >> well, yes. >> well, yes. >> she must have been worried sick. >> absolutely right. >> absolutely right. >> they did dup or something. >> they did dup or something. >> indeed. >> indeed. >> emma webb, what have you got for us? >> well, so, larry, who everybody knows, everyone knows larry in number 10, the chief mouser, is known for getting into all sorts of, of arguments and fights with other cats, famously with palmerston, the, foreign office's mouser, and we've seen on social media today attacking, a pigeon quite violently. so he's got a record of being a bit of a bruiser, which comes in handy when you're the chief mouser, but not if you are jojo, keir starmers cat. that's about to move into downing street. they're getting a dog. and importantly, also, his daughter has a pet mouse . his daughter has a pet mouse. and we'll see how i'm going to say a bit harsh to say we'll see how long the mouse lasts. the mouse is called bear. and so

hopefully, bear is good at hiding because larry is famously good at hunting down little rodents. just like bear. >> with all the snakes now in downing street, it's turning into something of a zoo, isn't it? >> well, must be full of rats, because it's quite an old building, right? >> i would point out that wasn't me trying to be funny. i don't really morbid, but larry the cat mustn't have long left. he looks a bit old, isn't it? >> oh, he's 17 right. so. oh, wow. >> wow. >> but he's still very agile. he attacked me once. i've got a i've had first hand experience of just how effective that happened when larry the cat dies. >> well, well, they get a new no longer alive. no, i understand he is the first. >> i mean, mouser, will he be lying in state or something? >> look at downing street. go and see mr abby. >> oh, let's start a campaign icon. let's start a campaign. i hope there's an operation. something. something that they've got for whenever larry's mad, it's terrible . mad, it's terrible. >> right. >> right. >> i'm good to go next. now, glastonbury. remember? glastonbury. remember? glastonbury noel gallagher has got it. well, he had a bee in

his bonnet about glastonbury. now, this is despite. of course, he's from oasis. but this is despite the fact he says glastonbury is one of the uk's most iconic festivals, and he's quoted as actually saying that this is phenomenal. it does really good for britain's soft power superpower, but he's got a bone to pick with glastonbury and he says it's getting a bit walk now. that place and a bit kind of preachy and a bit virtue signalling. i don't like it in music. little idiots waving flags around and making political statements and bands taking to the stage and saying , taking to the stage and saying, hey guys, isn't war terrible? yeah, let's all boo warf hey guys, isn't war terrible? yeah, let's all boo war f the tories man and all that. and he says, it's like , look, play your says, it's like, look, play your tunes and get off. and i thought that was pretty fair enough because i was watching glastonbury and i thought, i just want to see dua lipa play a song.i just want to see dua lipa play a song. i don't want to see a walk oven song. i don't want to see a walk

over, flounce over to a palestinian flag to try and make some kind of point. >> although, i mean, when you go glastonbury started as a cnd festival, didn't it? it's always been political. it just got more political over time. >> no one was saying no in his time. that it wasn't like that. that wasn't that long ago. in our lifetimes, i don't think that's true. >> i think it's not that glastonbury has become left wing. it's kind of the nature, the vibe of its history. i think what's changed is that noel gallagher is now about 50 years old and is no longer in that anti—establishment spirit that he would have been when he was in oasis , or just the youth have in oasis, or just the youth have gone a bit mad. >> do you think? i don't think any of us are madder than a gallagher would more people in the world not watch it, though, if it was depoliticised? >> i mean, a lot of people watch it as it is. it's, i think, the most well attended festival in the united kingdom, maybe one of the united kingdom, maybe one of the most well attended festivals in the world, certainly the most. >> the biggest. >> the biggest. >> exactly. >> exactly. >> the thing is, world influentially. >> if you pay so much for a ticket and you go to a concert, you kind of want to just see them play their music. you don't want to hear their political opinions. that's not what you're

there for. but at least with glastonbury, i think you kind of know what you're getting yourself in for, don't you? >> well, i don't know nothing radical a jewish person turning up, for example, and well, quite. >> they paint painted over the stars of david. >> yeah. nothing. nothing. >> yeah. nothing. nothing. >> you voted tory and you're seeing these dinghies being floated across. >> no one voted tory dance. that's fine. well they did in 2019, but of course, the irony of that is that they've got the barriers around the outside. >> it's one of the most protected places you could be. and they're worried that people might climb in and make them feel a bit unsafe. >> they make donald trump, isn't it ironic all the people in glastonbury, you know, calling for open borders, refugees welcome. >> and yet they're, you know, excluding all the people outside who don't have tickets. >> nothing that argument even mean. ben, what did you not hear what i said? but i mean, what i just what does it mean? >> all right, ben, it means that all the lefties in glastonbury waving palestinian flags, launching the mini lifeboat, saying that somehow the policy of stopping the boats is wrong. >> news england have won. >> news england have won. >> yeah, i think we heard it. we heard that england have won. this show has been very hard to do today because there's a very

excited bunch of production staff behind me. >> ben, leah, what have you got for us, >> i there were another sports story, actually. so this evening was meant to be andy murray, our tennis hero's last game at wimbledon. he was meant to be playing in the mixed doubles with fellow brit emma raducanu, the world number two, so of course, andy, he's won two wimbledon titles. i think he's, one of the greatest british sports sporting heroes ever. i think he's got guts. he's got integrity. he's very talented, of course, but what did, emma raducanu do today ? hours before raducanu do today? hours before they were due to take centre court, andy's last game, where he could say thank you to the wimbledon crowd and goodbye. no doubt a very, very tearful occasion. emma said. sorry, i've got a bit of a stiff wrist. i'm going to sit this one out, leaving not enough time for andy to get a replacement partner. so yeah, thanks , emma, sticking yeah, thanks, emma, sticking one, sticking one to andy. i don't care about andy's career. i'm just going to concentrate on my own singles. >> what if she really did have a hurt wrist, though? and let's just point out, emma raducanu has not dropped a single set in wimbledon. >> she's matching her run that

saw her win the us open. now you spend your whole life trying to win these big tournaments. wimbledon as a brit, is the one she's most want to going to want to do. if you've got a minor injury, are you really going to risk this brilliant run? >> so why leave it? >> so why leave it? >> can't expect to permanently injure herself. >> why leave it to the last minute to be in to be in a doubles, which is basically, you know, for fun in this context, they only decided to do it while at the start of the tournament, but you just wouldn't risk your dream of winning wimbledon for that. >> the points expected to do it? >> the points expected to do it? >> no, but the point being, don't leave it to the last minute. >> well, that's how injuries work because you didn't have time to he didn't have time to get a replacement. >> and if she really didn't want to play just take take centre court, go to the game, don't play court, go to the game, don't play just, you know, just throw, throw the game and give andy the deserving goodbye. >> he stopped doing tennis. i mean, doesn't she hurt her wrist every time she picks up a tennis racket. made a lot of money. i mean, she's the most successful british woman. >> i feel like all i hear about with emma raducanu is, oh, she's got a wrist injury.

>> she can't play. so just why don't you do something else? she's young enough to have another career. andy >> andy, do the us open that she won. she won the clear. >> you're saying you're saying she should get another career. she's the most successful woman we've had in in leave offs in decades, if not ever. >> she won her every time she played. >> she won a she won a grand slam with a very lucky draw. and since then has been injured and all crashing out in the first round of tournaments or grand slams. judy murray, andy and jamie's mum this evening on twitter was responding to a tweet of the news that emma had pulled out with the words simply yes, astonishing. full stop. so clearly the murray camp not happy with raducanu? well, look, i've got someone else that makes about as little sense as you do at times. >> joe biden, the us president, has finally sat down to try and explain that disastrous debate, that he had against donald trump. the other week, a poll found that 74% of people thought that he was too old to be president in the wake of it. well, today he has said that, quote unquote, only god almighty will stop him running again in

2024. i feel like god almighty might be trying to send him a message in recent weeks. if that's the case, should we all pray for that to happen? >> then maybe god almighty will actually stop him from running because he needs to. >> i thought that was the implication of that was that he was saying i would only if i die will i not go for it. >> i mean, i think that is basically, well, i don't, i don't want i no, no, that's, that's how i read it. >> i just thought there might be some sort of divine intervention and he would change his mind. not not that he would die. i just want i want there to be some sort of intervention, whether divine or familial, for someone to tell him, joe, you've had a good run, you've been the president. you're an 81 year old man. you live the rest of your life in peace. >> what kind of sign from god is he looking for? and he's making him senile. i he says, i do cognitive tests every single day. well, yes, you're failing them, joe. stand down. >> i don't know what the result was. >> i can't remember, emma, do you think. do you think joe biden has a responsibility to. >> i think it's really sad, actually. i it's strange because

in the debate that you we saw recently against donald trump, there were moments where he actually looked sincerely sorry for him and sincerely concerned and seemed to be. yeah, trump seemed to be going easy on him a bit because he was so unbelievably incoherent that you do think if you're a family member, especially if someone like joe biden , who's had like like joe biden, who's had like such a long career, you don't want your husband to be remembered for being completely senile , and getting lost in senile, and getting lost in shepherded back by the italian prime. >> i've got no sympathy for him. i'm sorry. >> unfortunately, i'm not saying i've got sympathy for mish, think. >> i'm not saying i've got sympathy. i'm just saying that jill biden, as his wife, really should be stepping well, the bidens are a weird, weird, very strange, bizarre family. >> i think she's pushing him away. >> i actually agree with you, darren. i think he is being selfish because any democrat, anyone that doesn't want trump is having their hopes put at risk because he wants to keep the job when he doesn't appear to be up to it, and the opinion polls would suggest that's true. >> right, folks? still, to come

tonight it's the saturday scrap. yep. we haven't forgotten it. england have just gone through to euro 2024 semi—finals. so does that mean that gareth southgate is one of our top managers? i think i've just changed my mind. albie amankona and ben leo will go head to head the saturday scrap. with the saturday five live on

welcome back to the saturday five. as always. thank you very much for your messages about tonight's topics. alan says how out of touch is steve baker? i'm glad he's gone. alan. if all the tory mps are like him, the party is doomed forever. only suella listens. only suella has got it right. until the tories start listening and concluding their members, they will remain unelectable. well, there's a view i'll be. >> it is a view. >> what does she do? when she was in office? nothing.

>> now, though, it's time for this. that's right. it's time for tonight's main event. england have just gone through to the euro 2024 semi—finals after beating switzerland on penalties in quite dramatic fashion. so is gareth southgate the manager a hero of the nation, or could we do even better without him? albie amankona is a hard core gareth southgate fan, but ben leo thinks that gareth from the office would do a betterjob. seconds out, it's round one. lead us off. i'll be. >> first of all, can i just say congratulations to the england football team for their historic win over in germany against switzerland. >> they won in penalties, which is something that england doesn't normally fare quite well. and i remember the last euros where england in fact lost in penalties to italy. but that back when that was on in 2021, you are going to hear from this ungrateful gentleman over here that gareth southgate is a bad

manager somehow. well let's just have a look at some of the metrics. there's only one england manager who outperforms gareth southgate when it comes to metrics, and that is sir alf ramsey only sir alf ramsey outperforms gareth southgate when it comes to the metrics. >> okay done. >> okay done. >> more competitive games. competitive games, friendly games. what are we talking we're talking we're talking all games okay. games. first response to thatis okay. games. first response to that is they play more games. now back in the day 40, 50, 60 years ago they'd play international games. were far and few between. today they play they interrupt the premier league season to play international games. so that's why gareth southgate has a more a bigger win and draw ratio. >> when you just look at the first 100 games, he actually has the second best statistics. he has 60 wins, 204 goals, 23 draws and only 16 defeats, whereas ramsey had 63 wins, 23 draws, 14 defeats and wins. winterbottom had 59 wins, 23 draws and 18

defeats. the metrics don't lie. ben leo no, i agree, is the best manager we have had for quite indeed. >> the metrics don't lie, albie, which is why when you look in the england trophy cabinet, what have we won? finish the debate. it's over. >> it's not over. it's finished. >> it's not over. it's finished. >> you don't like gareth southgate. >> it's because you don't like his politics. >> the numbers don't lie. >> the numbers don't lie. >> you just don't like him because he supports albie. footballer. >> albie, you've just been destroyed. >> vicious racism. >> vicious racism. >> the facts beat your feelings. england blew the world cup semi—finals against croatia. >> they just made it to the semi—finals of the euros this yean >> which? which other mark steyn fine. your lifetime has achieved that they've not won anything yet. >> they should have won. if you ask any sports person, ask gareth southgate himself. they should have won the euro 2020 final against italy. they went one nil up after a very, very easy route to the final. let me tell you who they who they played in that route to the final by the way, all the big hitters, four nil against ukraine, one nil against the czech republic, one nil against the mighty scotland, croatia,

then denmark in the semis and finally italy in the final. they went one nil up and southgate with the mentality he's got, he parked the bus, he panicked. he instilled the fear in his players and we bottled the final ask anyone just got us to the semi—finals of the euros. all right. wow. what by by winning by grateful by winning on pens. against against switzerland to use. >> right. >> right. >> we haven't got we've only got a couple of minutes left on the show. so what i would say is i think gareth southgate is too nice. i think that's his problem. he's too nice a person. i want someone who's menacing, who's going to be able to like, yeah, maybe abby can manage england. i want someone that's going to be like, no, you're not being in the team, not have these friendships that actually preclude you. >> can i just say actually being ruthless? abby is such a big gareth southgate fan that he wasn't even watching the game when he could have today. i appreciate parts of it was, was dunng appreciate parts of it was, was during our show. look at this picture here. so any any adoring southgate fan would be watching the three lions take on switzerland in the quarter finals? abby couldn't care less. ben. >> leo, look, i will be

completely honest. i become a football fan once england make it to the semi—finals. i'm a total glory hunter and now i can get excited about football because we're in the semis. thank you gareth. >> ben, if your measure is that you're only good if you've got something in the trophy cabinet, then it would be 58. >> it's true. that's what sport is. who plays sport here? be honest, none of you play sport. >> i played lots of tennis, but look, my point is that it's 58 years since we won anything and he's got us closer, so that doesn't matter. >> you're the first loser. the first loser is pathetic. >> oh, i don't i don't care. >> and also beyond the slightly. >> and also beyond the slightly. >> don't play. >> don't play. >> oh, come on, it's england. >> oh, come on, it's england. >> can i be honest? we're not very good at football. >> no no no that's right. hang on. league in the world i need i need to answer that. that's where you're wrong. >> i'm afraid we can't get to commercial break. ben lee or the show is over. let's get to some quick email. anthony says england got through by the skin of their teeth. southgate should resign. samantha says one has to question jill's motives for keeping joe in place. he's obviously no longer fit for the position of president. thank you very much to our guests tonight, the wonderful emma webb. next

up, it's leo kearse with the saturday night showdown. cheers very much for watching. we'll see you next week. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news >> hello. welcome to your gb news weather update from the met office. as we go into sunday. it's a case of showers once again, sunny spells and still feeling on the cool side for the time of year. we've got this area of low pressure moving out towards the east and driving north westerly winds, so bringing that fresher feel for sunday. but it's turning dry across parts of england to through this evening, with some late evening sunshine, clear spells elsewhere but a few showers mainly coming into western parts of england and into wales and northwestern england. as well, but still temperatures around 10 or 11 degrees, but under the clear skies across scotland could dip down into the mid single figures. so to start sunday morning then we've got plenty of showers coming in towards the southwest of england into wales.

these could be heavy at times as well . driest further towards the well. driest further towards the east with some bright sunshine here but some heavy showers, possibly thundery across north western england as well. sunny spells, scattered showers across northern ireland but drier but fresher to start on sunday morning across parts of scotland, with some outbreaks of rain across orkney and shetland as we go through sunday morning and into the afternoon, those showers will continue to push their way eastwards , turning their way eastwards, turning heavy at times and becoming more widespread as we go through. the day. could turn thundery at times across southern parts of scotland, northern england and central england as well. but we have got lighter winds out there compared to today, so that will help lift the temperatures just slightly, perhaps feeling a bit warmer 19 or 18 degrees, but a little bit warmer in scotland to a fresh start to monday morning. plenty of dry weather. first thing we'll start to see some showers breaking out across northern parts of england and scotland, but another area of low pressure towards the south,

bringing cloudier skies and outbreaks of rain. and that sets the scene really through monday, tuesday and wednesday with outbreaks of rain. temperatures generally around average. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb

>> good evening. the top stories and some news into us. in the last hour or so. anneliese dodds has been replaced as labour party chairwoman by ellie reeves . party chairwoman by ellie reeves. that coming to us in the last houn that coming to us in the last hour. meanwhile, sir keir starmer says rishi sunak's plans to send migrants to rwanda is now dead and buried. speaking after the first meeting of his new cabinet, the prime minister ruled out the controversial scheme, which had failed to deport a single migrant. he also said labour's election victory has given them a clear mandate to govern in all four corners of the united kingdom . the united kingdom. >> look, the rwanda scheme was dead and buried before it started. it's never been a deterrent , look at the numbers deterrent, look at the numbers that have come over in the first six and a bit months of this yean six and a bit months of this year. they are record numbers. thatis year. they are record numbers. that is the problem that we are inheriting. it has never acted as a deterrent , inheriting. it has never acted as a deterrent, almost the opposite, because everybody has worked out, particularly the gangs that run this, that the chance of ever going to rwanda

was so slim, less than 1. >>