make entertaining viewing. yvette cooper came out swinging today, talking of, well, more task forces and we'll tell you how many people came across already on small boats today. what chance do they have to fix this mess? plus, the former barrister and new pm must surely understand law and order, so maybe we should have faith in his plans to release thousands of prisoners. does that fill you with hope for safer streets? plus, eton school for boys is leading the way in protecting their pupils from the perils of smartphones by banning them. good for them , i say. now, good for them, i say. now, should an all state school children be afforded the same protections ? this first monday protections? this first monday of the new regime, lots to discuss in the next hour. but first, the latest news headlines with polly . with polly. >> bev. thanks very much indeed.

and good evening to you. well, the top story from the gb newsroom tonight is that downing street has admitted the summer will be challenging for the new labour government as the first boatful of migrants since the general election crossed the engush general election crossed the english channel this morning. the group of 64 illegal migrants was intercepted by a border force vessel and taken to a migrant processing centre in dover harbour , and this dover harbour, and this afternoon another boat was also on its way, crossing from france. it brings the total number of migrants who've crossed so far this year to more than 13,500. that's up 12% on the same time last year. than 13,500. that's up 12% on the same time last year . and the same time last year. and those latest small boat arrivals come as the former prime minister, sir tony blair, is urging the new labour government to bring in digital id cards. he says to control immigration. but the home secretary says it's not part of labour's policy. instead, yvette cooper insisted setting up a new border security command would bring an end to

people smuggling across the channel >> we're setting up a major new approach to law enforcement against the criminal gangs who are undermining our border security and putting lives at risk. this will be a major new border security command that will bring together the work of the national crime agency, the work of the border force, the work of the border force, the work that happens along the channel work that happens along the channel, but also the way that these networks stretch right across europe to go after the gangs that are profiting from this dangerous trade in people and undermining our borders. >> yvette cooper well, that comes after sir keir starmer announced the rwanda scheme is in his words, dead and buried, claiming he's not prepared to continue with what he called gimmick politics. while the conservative mp and former government minister kevin hollinrake told gb news this morning he thinks that is a huge mistake. >> one thing about the verandah legislation is, for the first time, illegal migrants coming

over the channel went into detention rather than into hotels. what labour government will do by scrapping that legislation, the release all those people from detention and they'll now go into hotels or council flats. that's absolutely wrong. we warned it at the time the labour party strategy on this in terms of smashing the gangsis this in terms of smashing the gangs is completely flawed. it won't work. of course. you smash the gangs, but that's not the only solution. you need . only solution. you need. >> kevin hollinrake speaking there. well, the prime minister has been meeting leaders in northern ireland today, vowing to end what he called instability in the region. sir keir starmer's also insisted his government can get a better deal with the european union than bofis with the european union than boris johnson ever managed to achieve. he then travelled to on wales later in the day, where he met with the welsh first minister on the last leg of his uk tour, to what he called reset the relationship between westminster and the devolved nations. >> it's very important to me to reset relations with scotland,

northern ireland and wales because i want to make sure that we collaborate. there's mutual respect and trust as we deliver for scotland, for northern ireland and for wales. here in wales, it's particularly important because what i said before the election is that a labour government would be a game changer, because you would have a uk government working with the welsh government delivering for wales, rather than the conflict that i think we've seen too much of over the last 14 years. >> meanwhile, the new chancellor has been setting out her agenda today, announcing there's no time to waste in boosting the uk's economic growth. she said in fact, she'd make it her national mission. it was her first major speech, and rachel reeves promised major changes to speed up infrastructure projects and unlock private investment. she also argued that 14 years of conservative rule had cost the country £140 billion in growth. >> well, the number one mission

of this incoming labour government is to grow the economy and to grow the economy . economy and to grow the economy. we need to get britain building the status quo of always saying no to new development, just isn't going to stand anymore. because if we continue like this, we will see living standards continue to decline , standards continue to decline, fewer and fewer people being able to get on the housing ladder and we won't be generating the money that we need for our public services. we sought a mandate at the election to grow the economy, and we're determined to do just that . determined to do just that. >> rachel reeves the new chancellor now, international news and russia has denied deliberately targeting a children's hospital in ukraine's caphal children's hospital in ukraine's capital. instead claiming the damage was caused by kyivs own air defence systems. more than 30 people were reported to have been killed in the airstrike, and over 120 were injured after missiles hit multiple cities across ukraine. president zelenskyy said the world should see what russia is doing. moscow says it did target ukrainian

military infrastructure and aviation bases , but denied aviation bases, but denied targeting civilian infrastructure . and in the infrastructure. and in the united states, joe biden is vowing to stay in the race for the white house. he's claiming losing is not an option against donald trump. in a message to democrats in congress today, the president said voters alone pick presidents, not pundits, donors or the press. he's also told the american media he's confident the average voter still wants him in power. that comes amid calls from some democrats for joe biden to step down and let a younger candidate take on his role. after a poor performance in a television debate last week. however, he claims he simply had a bad night. those are your latest gb news headunes are your latest gb news headlines for now, i'm polly middlehurst. i'm back in an hour with more. see you then. >> for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts .

forward slash alerts. >> very good evening . welcome to >> very good evening. welcome to dewbs& co with me bev turner. we are finally out of the blocks and into a new era of government. our left wing commentators can no longerjust shout from the sidelines. so good luck ella whelan. now that the boot is on the other foot this evening, which means it's your turn. alex dean to call out keir's chaos. it really feels today like things are changing. thank you both for kicking off this new dawn. i want to hear from you as well. i want your fresh takes on this new regime in power. get your views in gbnews.com forward. slash your say or email gb views @gbnews .uk. so the weekend papers were full of hints about labour's priorities, but today they hit the ground running shiny new chancellor rachel reeves began with some strong promises, vowing to fix the foundations of britain's economy and make every

part of the uk better off. >> where previous governments have been unwilling to take the difficult decisions to deliver growth or have waited too long to act, i will not hesitate. growth was the labour party's mission in opposition. it is now our national mission . there is our national mission. there is no time to waste . no time to waste. >> this was her first major speech, and reeves laid out a number of planning reforms, pledging to get britain building again, aiming for 11. 5 million new homes. >> we will reform the national planning policy framework , planning policy framework, consulting on a new growth focused approach to the planning system before the end of the month, including restoring mandatory housing targets. >> she then announced that labour will create a new taskforce to help tackle the housing crisis . housing crisis. >> we will create a new task force to accelerate stalled housing sites in our country ,

housing sites in our country, beginning with liverpool's central docks , worcester central docks, worcester parkway, northstowe and langley . parkway, northstowe and langley. sutton coldfield, representing more than 14,000 homes, sounds goodin more than 14,000 homes, sounds good in principle. >> ella whelan how will she get houses built when the tories have just resolutely failed to get them through those local barriers? when people say yes, it'd be lovely to have some houses for my children to afford, but i don't want them in my backyard, thank you very much. >> yeah, just not here. well, the problem that the country faces is that the biggest need for housing is in the south, and the biggest nimby attitudes are in the south, you know, all the sort of the remaining sort of typical conservative anti housebuilding supporters in the south and, you know, lib dem support. so labour, if it wants to do something significant , support. so labour, if it wants to do something significant, has to do something significant, has to tick off a lot of people or at least has to, you know, maybe putting it more positively has to win the ideological for case

why the nation not just individuals, needs more houses. what what it does to the economy, how it will benefit everyone, and she has made some sounds to that effect. i mean, in her speech there, she did say we might have to suffer some political pain as a result of short term political pain as a result of getting something done. but then actually, if you listen to the questions from the press in that interview, i think it was someone from channel 4 asked her, well, we've just spoke to a stereotypical nimby and they are not going to be okay with this and raise the environmental issues factor. what do you say to them and reeves then? you know , took reeves then? you know, took a step back and said, well, well, of course we will listen to local organisations. you can't have it both ways. you're going to have to get on the wrong side of someone, either the nimbys, you're either a nimby or a nimby. yeah and i mean, if they're going to have any sort of credibility, they have to be not just yimby , but yeah, not just yimby, but yeah, brutally yimby she did. >> she did say in this speech several times, we've got tough

decisions to make. there will be tough choices. there will be difficult decisions. but will she be strong enough to make them? alex, i admire the ambition and funnily, you get people who we're both yimbys. >> i mean, i very much agree in more on more development, but actually labour suddenly got a clutch of rather leafy edge of town seats where they've got mps sometimes for the first time, sometimes for the first time, sometimes for the first time in a long time, who are not going to want development and they're going to want to hang on to their seats. so it's not just labour confronting tory, lib dem councils, it's going to be labour confronting its own backbench because some of their new mps are going to be thinking, well, i didn't just get elected for one term, i want to be here for the long term and to be here for the long term and to do that, i'm going to have to be a nimby as well. so if she's going to succeed here, she's going to succeed here, she's going to succeed here, she's going to have to tackle some really significant interests, not least in her own party. >> but that's awful, isn't it? if you think that that an mp is putting their career above the needs of the local community, call me naive, but i don't want mps to be thinking like that.

they've only just got in for goodness sake. >> they might argue that they were trying to reflect the views of their constituents. after all, it's their current constituents saying no more, please, >> well, but also there is a there is a sort of a way around this, which is that most of the sort of nimby ish behaviour happens around the kind of green belt elements of places and people who don't want more development in an already relatively developed area. and throughout the election campaign. angela rayner i remember made some sort of headunes remember made some sort of headlines by saying that she wanted more milton keynes style towns, so that actually, rather than just, i mean , i'm all for than just, i mean, i'm all for bolting on more houses anywhere. i think we should just build, build, build. but the idea of taking completely undeveloped areas and have town planning and town projects, whole new towns, which is incredibly ambitious, new infrastructures, it wouldn't just mean new houses, it mean new schools, new traffic systems, all the rest of it. thatis systems, all the rest of it. that is the kind of ambition that we need. and that's, you know, that's the kind of thing that could really kick start something exciting in housebuilding. so do we conclude then that the reason that we

haven't that well, that we haven't that well, that we haven't had enough homes in this country that the targets just weren't met? >> boris johnson, when he became pm in 2019, he committed to 300,000 new homes a year by the mid 2020s and in 21 to 22 2223, the figure was fewer than 235,000 homes a year. and then add on to that a net migration of 750,000 people. >> sure, it's an unfashionable answer , but that 300,000 target answer, but that 300,000 target has been with us literally for decades, and government misses it year after year after year. >> and both governments as well, labour and tory. >> it was true under the coalition true under the tories. and i'm afraid it'll very likely be true under starmer as well. and the next trouble is the government the next year says, well, okay, we missed our target 300,000 new homes. we now need to build 300,000 new homes. and you think, hang on, there's a problem with the maths. if you missed it last year, surely the target this year is going to be higher. >> anybody have any idea where that figure has come from? 300,000. it feels a bit random.

it feels like something they came up with on the back of a fag packet one day. >> well, it's also it is incredibly unambitious. i mean, even the 1.5 million over five years as a figure 1.5 million sounds very impressive. but it isn't when you stretch it out over the five years. and when you consider the you know, it's not just people who are homeless at the moment, it's the fact that you have such a massive section of society in very expensive rental in the rental sector. and if you're going to do all these things that i think both the labour party and the conservatives talked about throughout this election campaign, which was a sense of community building and people having a place in society and roots. you have to you have to know that you're going to stay somewhere longer than a year and a half, which means probably owning a home. but i just want to say about this, it'd be wrong to say about this, it'd be wrong to see this. the solution to the housing crisis. just just about planning or just about targets, because there's also the sort of the factor that the, the environmental issue, which is that at the moment, building especially social housing, comes with a list of requirements of whether it's the heat pump thing or that you have to have a

certain kind of windows , and no certain kind of windows, and no one would be stupid enough to say we don't want modern houses that are efficient. but the costs start to stack up to meet the sort of policy initiatives. and in actual fact, i think what we have to do is just free up, industry to get bricks in the ground and do it properly and do it to spec, but not get tied up in all the sort of green loopholes. >> this is the time for new government to be bold though. that heat pump thing, which i mean, the idea we should be going around telling people that they're perfectly good boiler. it needs to be stripped out and they need to have a heat pump, which won't work when it's too cold or won't work when it's too hot. it's deeply un—conservative thing as far as i was concerned, but it's very much associated with the last government. if labour ditched it now, no one would hold it against them. if they stand by it for a year now it's their cross to bear, right? so this is the time for labour to be really ambitious on housebuilding. my worry is that they're not going far enough. she named basically the 2 or 3 places that most people who care

about this area know about the very lowest of low hanging fruit. once you get past that initial 14,000, which obviously gets you nowhere near 300 k, you're going to start running out of names pretty quickly. >> so what she was talking about, there were these stalled housing sites. she said liverpool docks, worcester, northstowe and langley, sutton coldfield. but as you say, alex, it's only 14,000 new homes. but if you do live in one of those areas tonight, do get in touch and tell me whether you're popping and tell me whether you're popping the champagne this evening, going, brilliant. we're finally going to have those flats in liverpool docks that we've been waiting for. or whether you just think, well, we need more than that, let's say i'm not sure it's ambitious enough. i don't like this word mandatory, normal, normally, particularly under this administration, the word mandatory makes me come out in a bit of a cold sweat. but i think when it comes to housebuilding, i quite like the idea that they're saying to these local authorities, you're just going to have to build them . yeah, to have to build them. yeah, well , i to have to build them. yeah, well, i mean, they haven't fully committed to that. >> the proof will be in the pudding because either you have a statutory requirement and that's it. and you and you suck up the disquiet or you do go back to what rachel reeves said in the press conference, or you

go softly, softly and say, well, actually, we still want to have some allowances for local, you know, councils and organisations. you just can't have it both ways. you either have it both ways. you either have to kick the boot in or say, this isn't a project we can fulfil before we go to the break. >> alex, i want to express my commiserations to you as some of our viewers do at home, saying, i presume this means that alex didn't win his seat then correct . didn't win his seat then correct. what happened? >> i did not. well, i'm in good company, aren't i? in having. >> you're not alone. >> you're not alone. >> what happened? if you missed it, was we got our ass handed to us, >> sorry if the children are watching. >> i, was vying for a seat called finchley and golders green. it's a lovely part of london, which is, by the way, very much doing its bit for housebuilding. brent cross town, not far, not far from here in the scheme of things, 7000 new homes delivered by conservatives and labour alike. it can be done on brownfield if you're determined enough. and i lost to a very good candidate called sarah sackman, who's now the labour member of parliament, who i think will go on to be a good mp and, dare i say, likely minister. >> so first time you stood, would you do it again? >> i would, i enjoyed the

campaign and, not everybody does. and i really like the people that i was campaigning with. i would do it again. a couple of interesting things that are beyond those remarks. the first is the gap between my loss, my vote and sarah salmon's vote is bigger than the vote that reform got in my seat. so a lot of people are out there saying, you know, reform cost me my seat. that's not the case with me. and the second is, as i say, i lost to somebody who i think is going to be a good mp, and that does make it feel a bit better. yeah >> oh well, their losses are gain. alex, thank you very much. all right. coming up. will labour stop the boats. the first small boat has already crossed the channel to dover under labour today. will the new plans be enough? we'll tell you what they are in just a minute. don't go anywhere.

welcome back to dewbs & co with welcome back to dewbs& co with me . bev turner until 7:00. i'm me. bev turner until 7:00. i'm delighted to say that keeping me company. journalist and author. ella whelan and conservative

commentator alex dean. now get your popcorn out. because starmer versus the boat crossings has already kicked off. 64 wannabe uk residents arrived today to be welcomed by the border force vessel hurricane. here is our exclusive view from dover with the world's best home security editor mark white. >> well, we heard an awful lot of talk in the dying days of the conservative government. the latter stages of the general election campaign, about the number of small boat migrants on the other side of the channel just waiting, biding their time for what the conservatives said would be a starmer government offering them the green light to come across in their thousands. today, of course, we saw the first of those channel migrants arrive, just a small number initially, but in truth, this is about the weather. it's always about the weather. it's always about the weather. any time we've got bad weather, as we have had for the last seven days, then you don't get any

small boats coming across the channel overnight. we had an improvement in the weather conditions, which allowed this initial cohort just a small number of migrants to begin with to come across . to come across. >> of course, labour have scrapped the rwanda scheme. we only gave the african nation £40 million. but fear not, new home secretary yvette cooper has it all in hand. >> we're setting up a major new approach to law enforcement against the criminal gangs who are undermining our border security and putting lives at risk. this will be a major new border security command that will bring together the work of the national crime agency, the work of the border force, the work of the border force, the work that happens along the channel. but also the way that these networks stretch right across europe to go after the gangs that are profiting from this dangerous trade in people and undermining our borders. >> i wish her well, but that sounds rather like a load of different people just talking to each other. mp nigel farage had this to say. >> i don't think we'll solve any

of this. and the some evidence that the trafficking gangs have been telling people over the last month , just wait until last month, just wait until labour win and then you're guaranteed that, you know, to stay. you're guaranteed you won't go to rwanda. so if we get some calm weather over the next few weeks, the numbers coming will be enormous. >> so, alex, no rwanda deterrent, no plans to reduce our attractive hospitality benefits package. what more have labour got? >> well, it'd be fair to them . >> well, it'd be fair to them. first of all, the past government didn't stop the boats ehhen government didn't stop the boats either. and so, you know , we either. and so, you know, we ought to show, i think, a bit of humility as conservatives rather than just bouncing straight into criticising the new lot. but i mean, i must say it was plain from the disarmingly honest responses of people smugglers that the rwanda scheme was a deterrent to their customers and their customers are, let's remind ourselves, each and every one of them, paying people, smugglers and their criminal

gangs significant amounts of to money cross over and many safe countries. and then a remarkably busy body of water putting themselves and their families in dangen themselves and their families in danger. so it seems to me that it's not a very good start from labour to effectively incentivise them by scrapping the scheme. but the bigger picture to me is this the new government, i think, is going to learn very quickly that the left wing activists who criticised the rwanda scheme when they succeeded in tearing that down, they don't just say, okay, job done, we're finished now, off we go to, i don't know, academia or something. what they'll say is what's next? what are we going to target next. whatever labour puts up is going to be targeted. i think they would have been better off sticking with the rwanda scheme politically. they'd attached they'd attacked it so much that it was likely never going to be able to do that. but just realistically they'd have been better off trying to get that running rather than setting up their own one, which will be attacked in exactly the same way. >> ella, what's the deterrent if rwanda has gone? >> well, we know i mean, i was not a fan of the rwanda scheme. >> i just thought that it one it

wasn't ever going to work. and ideologically, i didn't get on board with the idea of exporting our immigration problem like this. but it's i don't know, maybe i'm missing something. it doesn't seem to me to be rocket science. how to deal with, the issue of small boats and even more broadly, the issue of unwieldy asylum seeker system, which is that all you have to do is have a proper functioning deportation system, a proper functioning set of buildings, not some kind of, i don't know, a clunky old barge or a place like yarl's wood that was, you know, horrendous conditions have, have a proper system with proper functioning paperwork and a humane kind of conditions which deals either as, as sort of liberally or as harshly as you want it to. i think the problem that yvette cooper sort of has outlined there is that i just think it's dishonest. putting the focus on the criminal gangs element of this, because unless you're saying as a government that you're going to go into other nations and get

involved in law enforcement elsewhere, which they're not, no one has any interest in doing, you can't do that much about the criminal gangs if you're not willing to go into the sea and have an altercation, you can't do that much about criminal gangs. so you have to come out and say, and bite the bullet and say, this is our position. we will if deport x number of people and we will do and we will do it immediately or we will do it immediately or we will do it in this, you know, stretch of time, the criminal gangs thing, what can we do about it if people are going to risk their lives on, on boats? but what we can do is say, once you get here, this is the process. and i think it's it just comes down to as much of what government dysfunction comes to, down a kind of boring, simple issue of just the system not working. and governments not being willing, willing to do the hard work, but also say this is our these are our red lines. >> the delay point is completely fair, right? no matter how bogus a claim might be, how long it takes to process it, that's our fault. it's not the fault of the person coming. so that one i

concede. but on the coming here point, it seems to me we've got to be able to say, if you're coming from france, you're not a legitimate asylum seeker or refugee. and people will say, well, international law says that you are, which i say international law is being made a farce by this process. and by the way, when the poles said they would not treat anyone coming over the border from belorussia, from belarus as a legitimate asylum seeker or refugee, no one said they were racists. they said they realised the situation they were in when the situation they were in when the finns said no one coming over the border from russia will be treated as if they've got a claim, automatically responded and then people didn't think that that was racist. and the other 15 european countries have said they're going to offshore their processing. well, no one says they're racist either. i don't know why we are uniquely racist in this circumstance by trying to say, as the australians did, if you come here by this method, we're going to treat you in this way and send you to this place. >> go on. ella >> go on. ella >> well, it's just that, i mean, alex raising the international law thing is important because obviously it doesn't matter from my point of view. it doesn't matter whether you're quite liberal on immigration as i am or maybe more strict as alex's or maybe more strict as alex's

or conservatives tend to be. i think what we have to agree is that a nation has control over its own borders, and this whole sort of being hamstrung by international law just doesn't work. if i want to argue for a more liberal immigration system, i'm only going to legitimately argue it if we are. if i bring the british people with me, and we all agree that this is a we've had the argument and we agree and it's implemented, i think, you know , the tragedy of think, you know, the tragedy of the conservatives under rishi sunak was that the whole i know, the sort of the, echr issue can sometimes be a bit of a red herring, but the signal that sent to voters was, i'm just not going to deal with this. i'm going to deal with this. i'm going to deal with this. i'm going to leave it to be an an unresolved issue. we know that the, the, the most, the biggest block to any kind of immigration control is this sort of pantomime war between what you might term lefty activists, lawyers and, you know, the functioning of government and that it doesn't get resolved until someone says we are the ones that are in control and you would hope that's the elected government. sure. >> but to be clear, the bigger issue in this country is lawful

migration. it's not people coming over on the boats or however else coming unlawfully. it's that what we allow in legitimately and that's it's far, far larger. >> yeah. and that's when if we sort of i'm frustrated that we're hung up on the important . we're hung up on the important. but in the grand scheme of the whole immigration debate, smaller issue of small boats, when actually the bigger conversation is what kind of immigration system do we want to have?i immigration system do we want to have? i think the point system at the moment has this sort of ludicrous appearance of saying, we're going to have only people who have phds come over, and it's going to be very elite. and in actual fact, what we need or what we get them to do is work that doesn't require a phd. so it's a total sort of mismatch. >> i would also so i agree with a good chunk of that, not least that we if we as a country believe that we need people to do fruit picking, then we should be able to bring people in to do fruit picking for a set period of time in the true meaning of the word, to discriminate between individuals and say, we need these people and not those people. but i do think too, that, again, very unfashionable people who are waiting for their

claims to be processed on a refugee or asylum process, i'd let them work , i'd let them work let them work, i'd let them work and pay tax, and we get some of the benefit from that, rather than leaving them cooped up altogether in a hotel, which is altogether in a hotel, which is a recipe for disaster. >> but that is but that is more of an incentive to come here, isn't it? i'm really conflicted on that one, alex, because i'm like you, i'm like, well, people want to be here. let's just put them to work. like, just give them to work. like, just give them something to do. but i wouldn't send them out for letting them stay here. but i think from a legal point of view, the changes that would have to be made, because once you are employed in this country, then you do automatically get more rights, but you remain conditional. >> the germans used to have a process of migrant workers. i mean, they blew through their situation because of angela merkel, who said there's no limit to the number of people who can come. turned out there was it was 1.5 million. but my point is, the germans used to have a seasonal worker and an overseas worker, which gave, you know, more rights, gave you no right to stay, but gave you the ability to come and work and have and have employment and pay tax. and it seems to me that's

reasonable. >> what how much of a thorn in keir starmer side is nigel farage going to be now that he's in parliament? >> well, i just i think we'd be mistaken. anyone would be mistaken. anyone would be mistaken to see, a labour party's new government as just the soft liberal touch to immigration. i think we have to remember that in despite all their bleating about the rwanda plan, we one we don't have the detail of what labour really ideologically thinks about immigration. they have they've purposely not given us that, and two, they have never been particularly different to the conservatives. there has been this move from both parties inwards to the sort of mushy centre, which is very depressing from my point of view. but there is it's he's not going to suddenly throw open the borders. i think actually we might see something very similar, but just to more kind of boring technocratic approach of the yvette cooper strand rather than the sort of banging the table suella braverman style. but this is i don't think we're suddenly going to get a very liberal approach to immigration. >> i'll answer your question. i think that farage is right now

much more of a thorn in the side of the conservative party's senior figures . i avoid the term senior figures. i avoid the term leadership because currently we don't really have one. but, you know, labour has just got elected with a hell of a mandate and a hell of a majority farage, as far as they're concerned, will be noises off. and in fact, the more he kind of sounds off and makes life harder for the tory party the happier they'll be. it's clearly, in my view, much more of a challenge for tories who lost dozens and dozens of seats by the margin of the reform vote. to think about what farage is saying, do you try and cosy up? do you try and alienate? we just look at france as an example. first round, second round is treating the right as something you want to get onside with, or alienate the right thing to do from the centre. it's going to be extremely difficult for the conservative party's leadership right now. i would say that farage is net positive for starmer. do you? i do, and even though i mean, as you say, even though i mean, as you say, even though he's only got five mps, he has such a high media profile. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> but he's a fairly fairly and squarely at the tory party. you know, the labour party in the end will always be, you know,

the opposition for farage, the enemies, the tory party which he's trying to kill off. >> but keir starmer does know the labour party are well aware of the impact that reform made in this election. and they will know that two out of three voters did not vote for the labour party, and they are going to have to somehow appease that contingent of people who are waiting for action on immigration. >> well, the labour party is making a point of not going anywhere near the discussion about their actual popular vote and the fact that, you know, it was comparable to post—iraq blair, you know, a vote share. it wasn't. obviously they won a stunning parliamentary majority. but in terms of actual votes in the ballot box, it wasn't nearly as successful as i think they hoped or they imagined. and that means that they i don't think they care very much. they're not going there. and so farage. well, but farage farage poses the kind of populist, threat. he whatever you think about reform,

they have captured that kind of desire for change among people, actually, from a lot of left and right, young and old. that was the interesting thing about the way that vote played out. and so if they don't. keir starmer is an arch technocrat. he's just never going to be interested in winning the average every woman and every man's vote in that kind of a way that i think actually reform and farage are going some way towards. so it's kind of like it's i think i agree with alex, it's not really he doesn't care. it's not really a thing for him. >> it's not really a threat to be saying at home. we're talking about housing before of course, about housing before of course, a lot of you drawing attention to the fact that matt says the biggest need for housing is coming from immigration. and we can already see that the labour bill, at best, will do nothing to resolve that. jason says we don't want more houses. it's ridiculous . don't want more houses. it's ridiculous. our don't want more houses. it's ridiculous . our villages don't want more houses. it's ridiculous. our villages are being destroyed, cut migrants. we won't need all these houses. the nhs is broken. how will they cope? it is a joke and sue says my worry is the mass building of new houses is going to be done poorly. so many new houses are now of poor quality and they all

look like lego land with a lack of imagination about design. keep your messages coming gbnews.com forward slash your say. but another issue which is related to the number of people here. labour's solution to overcrowded prisons. well that is going to be to release inmates early. i'll tell you how many after the break is it. it's either genius or dangerous. tell me what you think. we'll discuss it in just a minute.

welcome back to dewbs & co with welcome back to dewbs& co with me . bev until seven. my panel me. bev until seven. my panel here. journalist and author ella whelan and conservative commentator alex dean . right. we commentator alex dean. right. we are all aware of britain's overcrowded prisons, but is freeing inmates. the overcrowded prisons, but is freeing inmates . the answer? freeing inmates. the answer? well, prime minister sir keir starmer is poised to authorise emergency measures set to let

out around 40,000 prisoners automatically releasing prisoners halfway through their sentence is also on the cards. well, alex, i can't work out if this is brave or madness. do you? >>i you? >> i think it's brave. and the reason i think it's brave is that if you do this kind of thing right at the beginning, then people understand it's because of what you've inherited. and if you try and stagger and stumble on and wind up doing it in six months or a yean up doing it in six months or a year, then it's your problem. and the reason i think it's the right thing to do is the government, the last government, the conservative government, was looking at doing pretty much exactly the same thing. now that's politics. labour at the time said it was completely unacceptable, completely wrong. in fact, i think it was a smaller bleed off of prisoners that they were looking at the conservative government was looking at having a couple of months off at the end of sentences, not this kind of move, but the labour party slammed it and said it was completely wrong. you know . but, completely wrong. you know. but, you know, look, that's politics i get it. that's politics. yeah. it was very likely this isn't a

party political issue. it's a systemic one. it was true with the last government. it's going to be true with this government. we need to build more prisons. and we also need to build more wings on current prisons. but the bigger problem for me isn't about what happens to people once they get arrested. and sentenced. the bigger problem is that people don't think they're going to get caught in the first place. so we keep ramping up sentences to try and make people disincentivized from committing crimes , but actually they don't crimes, but actually they don't think they're going to ever get caught and have that apply to them in the first place. and as long as that's the case, you can have at the one one at the same time, more offences happening because you're not detecting enough of them and people aren't being put off doing them. and longer and longer sentences and more people in prison. ella. >> well, i'm conflicted on the issue of appointing non—elected ministers like james timpson. i sort of feel a bit uncomfortable about the idea of giving quite a lot of political power to people who haven't had any votes cast for them, however. >> so, just to be clear, james timpson is of the timpson shoe making empire. timpson is of the timpson shoe making empire . yes, he was made making empire. yes, he was made a lord. well, he's now a lord so

that he can work on this now. why him ? because timpson has a why him? because timpson has a long history of employing ex—offenders successfully. >> yeah. and i, i really like him. i think that actually his approach to, rehabilitation and prison reform is less to do with the sort of wishy washy everybody's a victim. we should be really nice to them and more a very practical political sort of the way to get bring people out of adversity and bring them up in the world is to give them solidity, give them a job, create the foundations and the context for building a proper life and i think that's great. the problem with this release of potentially 40,000 inmates is that i think you need to do it under the you need to make the argument that the reason why these people should be released is because, for example, you shouldn't be thrown in jail for, i don't know, not paying your tv licence. exactly. >> you shouldn't like that. >> you shouldn't like that. >> there are, you know, a massive swathe of the and actually timpson says this in an interview. he says actually, about a third of the prison population shouldn't have ever been there in the first place.

and i agree with that. yeah, but you have to make that argument rather than just saying we're just going to release the pressure valve on prisoners by releasing a few people, because obviously, you know, the idea that you would have violent offenders, for example, something being released in some kind of loophole is nerve racking. and the fact that prison at the moment has no rehabilitative services, they've all been either through kind of funding measures stripped to the bone, or also just because it doesn't work, because there's not enough guards able to put on the kind of educational classes, because they're all dealing with riots. so you have to win the argument ideologically rather than just saying this is a practical measure in england and wales at the moment, there are only 700 places available in male prisons. >> now that's higher than it's been. that sounds. i mean, that does sound like quite a lot, but the prisons service say they want they like to have about 1500 places free at any given point . point. >> it's a smaller buffer than they would like, not just because you don't know who's going to be put on remand, you

don't know who's going to have bail revoked. and that that prison population can change very quickly. you don't want people backed up into police stations, which are a ill equipped for, detention beyond the most immediate term, and b need to keep their facilities for new people coming off the street and so forth . and i just street and so forth. and i just pick up on the point that ellie was making about, timpson being appointed, who i agree, may on these facts know a great deal and be a good appointment. it's fascinating. under the last government, admittedly, it was a senior role. of course, david cameron was made a lord and put into a senior ministerial position . and many people are on position. and many people are on the left said, you're saying you haven't got any good enough mps. you have to go out and find someone else. well, so far we've had vallance, patrick vallance, james timpson made me cry. richard hermer and jacqui smith all off the bat and the labour party has got more mps than even eve r. >> even >> it's a very good point. yeah. >> it's a very good point. yeah. >> and when i agree with i mean i do, i do think it's a problem. i do, i do think it's a problem. i was one of those people that not just because of the sort of

lord cameron business, but because the outrageousness of having a failed prime minister come in and essentially, by the way, just go off on his own in terms of foreign policy and make some massive changes in relation to israel and palestine. but but yeah, i think this is a problem. and it's a sign of starmer's technocratic approach. i know i'm sort of like sounding like a broken record here, but this is what he does. he says, we'll get the experts in the room and they'll handle it. >> just just to be clear, ellie, you don't think this labour party are left wing enough for you, do you? >> i don't think they're left wing at all, but but the terms left and right have been hollowed out of all meaning. i mean, it's not just because he's purged all the corbyn sort of ites from his party, and he's got people like my mp diane abbott, sort of cap in hand, scraping for her position within the party. it's because there's, you know, and it's not just because he's cosplaying as blair ehhen because he's cosplaying as blair either. it's because the idea of what it means to be left wing to me is to champion working class interests and post i'm expressing here. sorry, everyone at home post—brexit, when you've got the sort of populist spirit crushed, for years of sort of

disenfranchisement, basically the idea of having any kind of working class consciousness or organisation is all but dissipated. >> it's fascinating that paradigm for me as well, has gone that left right. we've got ella here who sees herself as super left. you've got you who would probably see yourself as super right. >> and there are things she's not saying far so that we don't get insulted. >> you're not that. but there are so much that you both agree on. >> sure, i'm not sure . so >> sure, i'm not sure. so i agree on the democratic point that you were making about choosing from your cohort of mps. of course, it's not quite the most mps labour's had ever. blair, i think, had slightly more, but the point for me is interestingly different that when you watch the rwanda debate in the upper house, it was obvious that labour didn't have enough peers and they didn't have enough peers who were working and able to stay up and go all night at debates and so forth. so you had this very interesting paradox where labour is committed to reform of our democracy. they want to reform the upper house and change it fundamentally. but in the immediate term, to get that

agenda through, they need they're going to have to make up a whole bunch of new peers. so i know i'm undermining my own point about pointing out all the peers they've made up already. but it seems to me he's not. this is the tip of the iceberg. it's not just for new peers. the keir starmer remember going to make up like 100. >> remember that they want i mean, this is the crucial difference they want to get. they allegedly say they might want to at some point in the future get rid of the house of lords. they won't. i want to aboush lords. they won't. i want to abolish it outright, but they they but replace it with a second chamber full of experts. so does the democracy issue doesn't change. >> it's going to be a mix of technocrats who are people who've sucked up the government already and retreads people who've already been. no offence to jacqui smith, been good or bad ministers who've been in the house already dropped out. you think about people who are ministers in the blair era. they're mostly rusted on james purnell. these people are just going to come bouncing back into that. the house of lords, well, that's democracy for you. i suppose. >> right. thank you both, quick break. talking of working class children, eton are going to ban their boys from using smartphones, replacing them with nokia bricks. so should schools

ban smart phones? we're going to be debating that in just

all right. good evening. it's 10 to 7. this is dewbs& co with me. bev turner standing in for michelle this evening. so still in the studio. ella whelan and alex dodi now eton private school. public school . even school. public school. even that's produced more prime ministers, i think, than any other school is banning smartphones. it's issuing students with an old nokia brick handset. they say it's going to improve children's mental health, get rid of it all. and i think this is just brilliant. i'm disappointed, alex, that it's taken a top private school to go first. i wish more state schools could have this sort of backbone to protect kids. yeah. >> nobody. no, nobody needs a smartphone at school. i'm sure someone's going to say to me, there's some insulin app or something that i'm missing, and there's a very vital medical

point . but outside of that, point. but outside of that, a very small need. having a dumb phone, a phone that, you know, we used to have 20 years ago that could withstand being run over by a truck, that's fine for your safety. nobody actually needs a smartphone. and you should be concentrating and focusing on school. but i agree with you. this is the kind of leadership i would hope the state can give. i went to a state can give. i went to a state school myself, but i did find myself in a very strange situation in the election of me as a state school educated person, saying to my privately educated opponent how wrong, i thought. labour's policy on adding vat to independent school fees was because most independent schools in this country are not eton. a number of them are religious schools and community schools where people scrimp , save and have people scrimp, save and have bursaries from their communities so they can be educated in a particular way, or religious or otherwise. that is to say, to the conversation that we were having with early, earlier laboun having with early, earlier labour, the class war hasn't gone from the labour party. this is an attempt at class wan they've just got the wrong target. >> it is. i agree with you. i think that the 20% vat on private schools is cruel. it's vindictive, it's designed to divide. but on this issue, ella,

we can talk a little bit about both. even though we're up against the clock a little bit. i think that eton is doing a good thing here by demonstrating that you can be strict with access to phones for kids. >> yeah. to me it seems common sense that it's a bit like you can't suck sweets in the classroom and you can't smoke in the playground. i mean, just phones are banned. it's obviously very eton to issue every child with a nokia phone, which they're probably quite expensive these days because they're so retro. but i mean, to me, it's a common sense school sort of rule. but what i don't get on board with is the sort of i think we have a bit of a moral panic going on about phones, which is the idea that a child having this evil thing in their pocket, access to social media, will indefinitely corrupt them. and i think actually we need to get a little bit better, being a bit more nuanced about it and saying adults have authority to tell you to come in and turn off your phone, but they're not the worst thing in the world. >> do you know what is the worst thing in the world is that we've run out of time already. it went

way too quickly. we would have been able to get stuck into that. sorry guys. alex and ella, thank you so much. i'll be back on britain's newsroom tomorrow morning at 930. join me then. up next is martin daubney. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar. sponsors of weather on . solar. sponsors of weather on. gb. news >> hello. good evening. here's your latest gb news. weather coming to you from the met office. the weather's going to make it feel not much like july. as we go through the next 24 hours with some heavy, persistent rain pushing up from the south in association with a weather system that's already made its way across some southern parts so far today. the heaviest rain through this evening and overnight is going to be across parts of southwest england and south wales could see totals of 60 to 70mm over higher ground. some travel disruption and some flooding possible even elsewhere across much of england and wales. it is going to turn pretty wet overnight, but with that temperatures not dropping a huge amount, a different story further north across scotland, northern ireland, where we get any clear skies, temperatures

will dip into mid single figures. taking a look closer at first thing tomorrow morning and by 6 or 7:00 in the morning, far southern parts of england. here the heavy, persistent rain will have cleared, but it's staying cloudy with some damp weather around . more persistent rain around. more persistent rain lingering across the central slice of the uk, and this rain will be starting to push its way into parts of northern ireland and perhaps the far south of scotland. but elsewhere across scotland, it's actually looking like a fairly decent morning. perhaps the best of the sunshine will be towards the west, a little bit cloudier towards the south and east through the rest of the day. we are going to see this band of rain continuing to edge further northwards, so spilling in across more parts of scotland, northern ireland and lingering across the far north of england. elsewhere further south, staying fairly cloudy and some outbreaks of rain around . some outbreaks of rain around. but there should be some brighter breaks and in any sunshine. not feeling too bad. temperatures peaking around 21 or 22 celsius. generally, though, they are below average for the time of year. more very wet to weather come across far

northern parts as we go through wednesday. a bit drier further south, maybe some sunny breaks at times, but also some showery outbreaks too. and there will be some more showers to come as we 90 some more showers to come as we go through thursday and friday. that being said, there is a drying trend so optimistically hoping for some drier weather by the weekend . the weekend. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers

>> all right. good evening to you. and welcome to gpn. tonight with me. martin daubney. it's the first full week of the new labour government for keir starmer is already causing controversy with plans for a closer relationship with the eu and a solution to overcrowded prisons. by releasing lags early. he thought politics was bad. here just look at the scenes across the channel in france, where left and right have clashed on the streets following the latest election result. we'll go live to paris ,

result. we'll go live to paris, all of the latest, and we'll have an exclusive chat from the man himself, nigel farage. we spoke to him earlier about what he does next and the future of the conservative party . the conservative party. and we'll also be joined by england legend and a hero of mine, peter shilton, to talk about wednesday's euro semi—final with netherlands. get in touch with your thoughts on tonight's topics by visiting gbnews.com/yoursay. but first, here's the news with polly middlehurst . middlehurst. >> martin, thank you and good evening to you. well, the top story from the gb newsroom tonight is that downing street has admitted this summer will be challenging for the new labour government as the first boatful of migrants since the general election crossed the english channel. this morning, a group of around 64 illegal migrants

was intercepted by a