appointments. is records or book appointments. is it dangerous that the world is so reliant on so few tech companies? spoiler yes. yesterday we saw terrible scenes from leeds where rioters burned a bus and tipped over a police car. we're asking why. what is behind all this? and plus just stop oil they don't go away, do they? just stop oil? protesters have been given a prison sentence, has been won and five years. harsh, fair throw away the key. let me know what you think to that one. and finally, should a tasteless joke at work get you in trouble ? or is there get you in trouble? or is there still such a thing as a workplace banter? that's all to come in the next hour. as i said, a sizzling show. but first, the news headlines with an equally sizzling sophia wenzler. >> dawn. thank you. good evening from the gb newsroom. it's just gone 6:00. your top story this houn gone 6:00. your top story this hour. cyber security firm crowdstrike says a fix has been

deployed, but admits it could be some time before today's global outages are fully back online. more than 3000 flights up many of the world's airports have been grounded since early this morning, with airlines unable to complete check ins. banks, supermarkets most gp clinics and even major tv and radio broadcasters are among the many who've been knocked off line. those travelling by rail are also affected, with transpennine express , thameslink and southern express, thameslink and southern among those who've reported disruption. crowdstrike ceo says it's not related to any security incident or cyberattack, but cabinet office minister pat mcfadden says it shows the vulnerabilities of the digital age this incident shows is just how dependent we are on it systems and when something like this happens, how fast and how widespread the effects are, the reassuring thing in this case is that it's not a hostile act, it's not a security attack.

>> the cause has been identified, and it's really important because we're so reliant on these systems that the fix is put in place as soon as possible . as possible. >> journalist evan gershkovich has been sentenced to 16 years behind bars after a russian court found him guilty of espionage. the wall street journal reporter has already been held in a moscow prison for 16 months on charges of spying , 16 months on charges of spying, prosecutors say the 32 year old was caught gathering secret information for the cia, though no information to back up the allegations has been made public. president biden has accused the kremlin of hostage diplomacy and says he's committed to bringing evan home. in other news, a woman believed to be from sudan has drowned after an overcrowded migrant boat got into trouble in the engush boat got into trouble in the english channel overnight. five people were pulled from the water and a further 86 others rescued by a french patrol vessel at around 1:00. this

morning, they were all taken to calais, a spokesperson for number 10 says the incident underlines the stark reality of how dangerous the crossings are. police made several arrests after violent disorder broke out in a leeds suburb last night, with more expected in the coming days. vehicles were set ablaze and a police car overturned late last night, with residents warned to stay indoors as helicopters and a large police presence responded to the chaos. it's understood the riots were unked it's understood the riots were linked to local children being taken into care in the us. donald trump pledged to bring back the american dream as he took to the stage last night to formally accept the republican nomination for president. speaking at the republican national convention for the first time since he narrowly avoided an assassination attempt, the former president struck a unifying tone, promising to lead for all americans. former wrestler hunk hulk hogan was also there. he

called mr trump a hero. >> are you crooked ? politicians >> are you crooked? politicians need to answer one question, brother . what you need to answer one question, brother. what you gonna do when donald trump and all the trump maniacs run wild on you, brother ? maniacs run wild on you, brother? >> meanwhile, barack obama has reportedly told senior democrats that he's concerned over joe biden's ability to win november's election . the former november's election. the former president is understood to have told colleagues that mr biden's path to victory has greatly diminished. it comes as a report in the new york times suggests president biden has begun to accept that he may have to drop out of the race. health alerts are in place across the country as the summer sun brings welcome relief for some. experts are urging people to take precautions, with warnings in place in many parts of england until 11:00 tomorrow night. today has been the hottest day

of the year so far, with a temperature of 31.9 degrees recorded at saint james's park in central london. but england is far from the hottest part of europe today, with temperatures in madrid and seville expected to peak at around 40 degrees and a new report by a think tank is calling for britain's old and neglected phone boxes to be removed . create street says removed. create street says there's little need for the old phone boxes, with their use having fallen by 99.5% since 2002. it found the majority of the boxes now attract vandalism and are poorly maintained, creating what's being called a box blight across britain's streets. though the report is careful to draw a distinction between the old boxes and the classic red booths, many of which are listed , those are the which are listed, those are the latest gb news headlines. for now, i'm sophia wenzler more in half an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news

alerts by scanning the qr code , alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . slash alerts. >> welcome to dewbs & co with me >> welcome to dewbs& co with me dawn neesom. and we have got a sizzling show lined up for you on the hottest day of the year. hope you're having a good one out there, but staying safe obviously, joining me until seven is my wonderful panel tonight, conservative life peer in the house of lords, daniel moylan, lawyer and trade unionist and broadcaster paul embry. hello. thank you both for joining me, dragging yourselves away from your sunbeds and your cold beers. >> and we were talking about that earlier. daniel's got irish blood and he doesn't he doesn't tan well. >> no, no, i wear a hat. >> oh, you've got your, your straw boater again. >> i've got a panama hat. a panama hat? yes. i mean, he's just got a baseball hat with maga written on it. i mean, it's and we're off. we're a bit low, bit lower order, a bit cheap. yeah. >> i loathe donald trump.

>> i loathe donald trump. >> right? wait, wait. >> right? wait, wait. >> we haven't started yet. but in any case, it's not this show is not actually about them two or even me. it's about you. so get your views coming in at gbnews.com/yoursay now we're starting off with, i think, a really scary story, a global it outrage swept across the world this morning, from hospitals to airports to banks everywhere has been affected. the problem has now been found by it security firm crowdstrike, and a fix has been deployed . but should so few been deployed. but should so few companies have so much power across the world now , this across the world now, this terrified the life out of me. we've all seen this movie, right? utter chaos. everything goes. planes fall out of the sky. i was actually genuinely worried. it's like, you know, tv stations stop working. not this one. stay tuned. this one. daniel, i mean, why are we so over reliant on technology these days? everything we do, i mean, it is getting dangerous, isn't it? >> we're not over reliant on technology as such. we are over reliant on microsoft. and this should be a turning point when

we actually decide to get to rid the world of bill gates. that's what this should all be about. other operating systems, as i understand it, according to crowds, these people crowd think, the whatever they're called according to these people, this has not affected, os operating systems for macbooks or linux or whatever. this is an attack on on microsoft. and why is microsoft so dominant? and the answer is i'm not talking about your personal computer on your desk, because that'll be fine. i'm talking about businesses with huge servers, huge networks, which is what we're really discussing here. why is it it's because they are so good at persuading every company in the world that only microsoft is going to give them the support they want , going to give them the support they want, and going to give them the support they want , and everyone crowds they want, and everyone crowds around the sort of what they think of as the safe standard. when there are other options available to them that they shun, and they should be using those options and developing further options because there's nothing special about the microsoft. i mean, there was a

dodgy system that was set up in the first place. it used to be called dos dirty operating system when it was first established, because it was botched altogether, and it's full of bugs and it's this is going to carry on happening as long as the world is totally dependent on microsoft. we need to rid the world of bill gates. >> but whose fault is it, paul, that we are so reliant on whether it's microsoft or an other company , so reliant on one other company, so reliant on one company? and the reason this are the crowdstrike system affected so many people because it has so many blue chip companies who are subscribed to it. >> i think this is clearly crowdstrike's fault, isn't it? this and it's insane that we are so reliant on such a small company in this particular case. and how can it's insane that a company of that size can cause global mayhem on the scale that they've done. i mean, was there no stress testing of this update that was rolled out? they just it was it was the irony is no backup system . backup system. >> this this system is designed to stop this thing happening. >> well, these are the people who apparently ride to your

rescue. yes. to prevent you from from getting hacked or to put it right when you've been hacked or when there's been an attempted hack. and actually, how ironic in a terrible way , that this in a terrible way, that this antivirus company has caused such, such global mayhem across the globe. >> the thing that really worries me, gentlemen, is the fact that, you know, okay, this was a glitch. this was a mess up. okay? but you don't need to nuke people these days, right? okay. all you do need to do is get hold of one of these systems and then just turn it off. basically, you've got the whole world. >> i come back to my point. i'm really making a very serious point about this. yes, of course it was. they were the one who made the mistake and mistakes happened that shouldn't have happened. it's amazing that their statement still does not contain a word of apology to the world. no, that's true. incidentally, it's absolutely scandalous. but but nonetheless, they made the mistake. it shouldn't have happened. they shouldn't have happened. they should have been processes that prevented that button from being pressed before they actually went ahead and pressed it, pressed it. but nonetheless, its effect globally only exists because of the pervasive domination the quasi monopoly situation that that microsoft

has established across the corporate computer network system globally. what do we do about it, daniel? well, we need we do lots of things about monopolies. we have lots of powers here in britain. the european union, the united states. we have lots of powers to break up monopolies. and that's we do it with supermarkets if they merge and all sorts of things. so we need the government now to say this can't we can't take this risk again of a mistake like this being spread throughout the corporate world because of total overdependence on one particular operating system. the thing is this, and we need to take action to break it up, because the next mistake might come from a small company. we don't know where the next mistake will come from, but there probably will be another mistake. but it can't spread like a cyber attack. >> but it may as well have been. that's the thing. it may as well have been a cyber attack and lives will be lost because of it. i mean, gp surgeries this afternoon are in are in meltdown. >> 60% of gp surgeries in in england and wales rely on one

system. >> this is this is the thing and daniel was right in terms of monopolies, how have we allowed ourselves to get into a situation where where companies, whether it's microsoft , whether it's microsoft, crowdstrike, whoever's ultimately responsible, have such ? and i know we live in an such? and i know we live in an interconnected world and we're interdependent. and the technological advance and all the rest of it. but how did we get into this situation where these companies, crowdstrike, i think, is a relatively new company, was set up about ten even heard of them before, about set up about ten years ago, i think, and suddenly sort of grew very rapidly. and they've brought a large part of the developed world to a halt. and that i mean, that simply cannot happen. and whatever, whatever happens, there has to be a contingency plan for the future. i think people have got to look at it. governments have got to get together and say whatever it is in terms of regulation or splitting up these big, powerful companies. we've got to make sure that there's a system in place, a back up system in place. so if something goes wrong again like this, then it doesn't have anything like the impact. >> the one thing this will improve, daniel, is that we learn lessons from it and we

make sure that it doesn't happen again. we have back up systems in place, but does that i mean, there was a cobra meeting this morning, wasn't there? but the prime minister didn't bother attending. >> well, i don't know. well i think there's a mystique about cobra meetings. as if you have a cobra meetings. as if you have a cobra meetings. as if you have a cobra meeting and then something's going to happen, you know, and if the prime minister doesn't turn up nothing about it, nothing is going to happen. i mean, what we want, i don't i don't know whether to have me. i am not assured whether there's not critical point any political party. i am not assured , party. i am not assured, reassured if there's a crisis and i know there's been a meeting in a particular meeting room that doesn't that in itself doesn't cheer me up. i'm interested in actions , and what interested in actions, and what i want to see here is the way to address this is to disperse the danger by making sure that when similar mistakes happen, they have an effect on. yeah, it'll have an effect on. yeah, it'll have an effect on. yeah, it'll have an effect on some part of the corporate world, but not the whole of the corporate world in the way that that this does. so that you disperse the danger a little bit. you put the shock absorbers in. that's better than

absorbers in. that's better than a sort of contingency and backup type of plan, which is often just a duplication of systems which would also be affected. why wouldn't they also be affected ? i know, i know banks, affected? i know, i know banks, i know banks that have whole empty rooms full of servers and backup systems in case their systems go down. i understand that, but why wouldn't they be affected? also, you need to spread the danger by breaking up the monopolies and i want to see some action from the government to do that. >> similarities here with the global financial crisis in 2008, where where the banks were, you know, lending irresponsibly, there wasn't proper regulation in place, there wasn't proper oversight. and at a huge impact globally. and we're still paying the price of that 16 years later. in terms of the impact of austerity and so on. >> the one of the interesting this is this, this is, you know, a similar thing, but not necessarily long term, but certainly in terms of the immediate. one of the interesting things i think to come out of this is how our old school systems, i.e. paying for things in cash, call me old fashioned and actually doing yourjob fashioned and actually doing your job from your place

fashioned and actually doing yourjob from your place of your job from your place of employment. lots of it. experts saying today, like working from home didn't help the situation because it specialists couldn't get to an office and saw everybody's computers out at the same time because everybody is working remotely these days, and it needs a manual fix on every computer by all. that's what i mean. that's a manual fix you can't do if everyone's working from home. so, you know, going back to the old schools ways, daniel was probably a good idea then. >> well, i tried, i tried, i had a cup of coffee at the house of lords today, and i tried to pay for it in cash. i tried to pay for it in cash. i tried to pay for it in cash. i tried to pay for it in cash. because of this crash. yeah. bit worried about getting my debit card out and they didn't have any change. so eventually at the third attempt, it did go through on my debit card. i have to admit. but, but i did keep the receipt for a change because i'm worried, you know, it could come back. you could be on your statement. they could be on your statement. they could multiply it by a thousand times and you wouldn't know it'd be there on the statement. >> you see, footman or a valet to deal with. >> i'm ridiculous. we have no support at all in the house of lords. don't even have a

secretary or anything. it is. you do everything. everything. >> the world's smallest. every to you, baron ryan of kensington. >> everything yourself. you get no support at all. >> i don't know how you manage it. >> this is why an elected house of lords would be a great idea. but very expensive. because we'd all have to have staff then, if we were elected like the mps. >> at least you were in the office. at least you went. and you might have just been having a cup of coffee or a drink. but at least you went in the office and the fact that we're not working in our place of employment anymore was a huge problem today, wasn't it? paul? can we just get back to work now, people? >> i don't think it's that straightforward. i think where it works for people to work from home, where it works for the organisation, the employer and the employee. i don't think it's really for anyone else the law, the government, anyone else to intervene and say, actually, no, we're going to stop that arrangement. i do understand the concerns about working from home in terms of productivity and so on.andi in terms of productivity and so on. and i think probably in the pubuc on. and i think probably in the public sector, you do need oversight because ultimately, you know, they're public servants. but i think by and large, if you've got an organisation, particularly a commercial organisation which

says, look, we as the employer are happy for people to work from home, it works for those people. it's better in terms of work life balance. and so on, then i don't see really that it's anyone else's place to intervene on it. so i wouldn't want to see this used as a sort of general general attack on people, on people working from home. >> it's just like so many places now. just don't take cash. i mean, i'm a west ham fan. i get found out that our club shop now is going cash free. >> i was a football club recently and i went in the bar, and tried to pay with cash and, and tried to pay with cash and, and there were, there were lots and there were, there were lots and lots of people there. it was before a match and it was a championship team. so a top level team and we had a bite to eat as well, with a friend and they said, they said they wouldn't take cash, i would just hand, hand it back at the end. >> just hand the pint back. >> just hand the pint back. >> that's well i'll just say i'm sorry if you if you don't want my cash and i don't want your pint, i'll just give it. i'd already drunk it. >> yeah, but yeah. could have just walked out. >> well, you could just give the empty glass back and say, well, i will my old mate barry moylan.

>> i don't, i don't want it, i don't want it. take it back. >> yeah. no. >> yeah. no. >> and here's the plate, by the way. >> it was, it was quite decent meal. i'd have i'm still willing to pay for it. >> the problem we've got now is the genie is well and truly out of the bottle, isn't it? >> on this one? i mean, it's going to. >> yeah. what i find works. i'll tell you what i really don't like is when you say, could i have a receipt for the credit card? and they say, oh, yeah, if you give us your email address. yeah, yeah. and i said, why on earth would i have to give you my email address for you to give me a receipt, which actually by law, because it's a vat receipt, usually by law you're required to give me anyway, why would i have to give you my email address? >> because you have to these days, everything. why >> why? how dare you? how dare you? >> can you think of a single ask for my personal data in order to give me something i know they do all the time in every shop you go in, but it's a single part of your life. now i lose my rag, then it's well, sorry i lose. >> i do actually, generally very calmly, in a very lordly way, i'm sure. lose my rag at that point. yes, i say, well, i'd

like you to write it on a piece of paper, then. well, good for you. right? give me a written receipt on a piece of paper. >> but but there isn't, i think for i think for elderly people, this is not. >> that's like me. >> that's like me. >> like me and you. but i think for elderly people it is a real problem. the cashless society. >> it's a real problem for the unbanked. there are a lot of people who don't have banking facilities and they're excluded as well. >> but i think elderly people, even if they do have banking facilities, they're not necessarily tech savvy. they're not. >> i can waive that. it's not the tech. they can waive their credit card. it's the elderly people who are the ones out there with with their gold, american with their gold american with their gold american express card. >> for example, when you go to a car parks and you can't pay with cash and you have to download an app cash and you have to download an app and you have to pay on the app' app and you have to pay on the app, and you have to do qr codes and stuff like that, that does involve being, you know, savvy around the internet. and i think for a lot of elderly people, you know, it's difficult. there was a story the other day about a lady who couldn't post on twitter, a lady who couldn't pay her parking ticket, and she was going to her daughter's inquest, which was happening in ten minutes time. and she understandably, someone put it on twitter. she was in a really bad state because she was going

to miss the start of her daughter's inquest, because simply because she couldn't pay by cash, she was she was being asked to download an app and do all of the things that you have to do nowadays. and we do, i think as we sort of go forward with technology, which is not a bad thing in itself. of course, you can't hold back the tide of technology. you've got to embrace it and harness it to your advantage. but you've also got to make sure that you don't leave vulnerable and elderly people. exactly. and we are doing actually, i think there's a tendency for people younger people, 20s, 30s, 40s, very tech savvy. this is the only world that they know to forget that actually, people a couple of generations older simply don't have that experience. exactly >> but we can do mental arithmetic, okay. >> and there are lots of messages coming in on this as well. tony, i'm with you on this one. tony, should this it mess up, encourage people to use cash more. it will for me my bank account is now my mattress. tony, i know where you're coming from. and paul a bit cheeky. paul says there won't be a cobra meeting tonight. storm has gone home. it being a friday night and the weather's nice. obviously. i think he might have been joking a bit about that, but anyway, we have to move on.

coming up, chaos took over leeds last night. shocking scenes, weren't they? with a bus being set alight and people told to stay inside their homes. what do you think caused this? that's our question coming up very soon. don't too

hello. this is dewbs & co with hello. this is dewbs& co with me. dawn neesom tonight. keeping me. dawn neesom tonight. keeping me company until 7:00. is conservative life peer in the house of lords. daniel moylan, who's reading complimentary messages about himself and paul and you, dawn. all right. okay, okay. we're allowed then . and okay. we're allowed then. and trade unions and author paul embery. and we hope you're having a lovely friday afternoon at the friday evening, friday tea time . anyway, it's the lead tea time. anyway, it's the lead story , i'm afraid. horrific story, i'm afraid. horrific scenes overnight when a police car was flipped on its side and a bus set alight after unrest broke out in leeds. as i said on thursday evening, red residents were advised to stay in their

homes, there were horrible scenes. we've seen them before. it's not new. remember the tottenham riots? some not so long ago in london and manchester has seen similar things as well. but what do we think caused so many people to act so violently in leeds in this situation? i'm coming to you first, paul, on this one. i mean, they were horrible scenes and people seem to be actually enjoying what they were doing as well. >> that's the thing. it seemed to be gratuitous and that's what concerns me slightly, that there was a lot of laughter and a lot of giggling and a lot of filming on smartphones and there were eveni on smartphones and there were even i mean, you can see there, there's children involved. and, you know, i saw some footage with women involved as well, and we've had riots in the past. you mentioned some of them, dawn. i mean, going back to the 1980s, for example, places like toxteth was in flames and handsworth in birmingham , which daniel will birmingham, which daniel will will know coming from that neck of the woods and brixton, of course. but the thing that strikes me is back then, even though, you know, rioting was

wrong at least people appeared to have a genuine kind of deeply held political grievance. so for example, toxteth, the whole thing was about unemployment and poverty and deprivation in liverpool, in brixton it was about you know, stop, stop and search by the police and so on, in handsworth, i think it was young black youth who were who were rioting about unemployment and whatever else. but you've got the sense, whether you agree with them or not, you've got the sense that there was a genuine kind of grievance there and that they were reacting to that. i think that this particular riot, very similar to the riot that you mentioned in in 2011 or the riots in 2011, because they spread around the country , spread around the country, ostensibly, if you remember, that was about mark duggan being shot by the police, and he ended up about looting a new pair of trainers, and exactly the gangster from from tottenham and it spread. and it was clear that thousands of people joined these riots who had no opinion on the mark duggan affair at all, but did it entirely gratuitously .

did it entirely gratuitously. and that's that's my concern that it seems to happen these days, because people seem to be enjoying it and there's no real political grievance there. and i think that was the case last night in the harehills green party >> councillor moeen ali was on the scene trying to calm people down. but in an interview he gave, he he blamed the system for neglecting the community in that area . i'm not quite sure that area. i'm not quite sure what he means by the community, but lots of people are reading lots of things into it. so i mean, daniel, is this like on one side, you're saying this is caused by poverty and that particular part of leeds and that community being neglected ? that community being neglected? and on the other hand, you've got people like nigel farage saying that this is what you get when you in when you import migrants and their problems into the uk. what do you make of that? >> well, i think nigel's got this completely wrong, i'm afraid. i think paul's got it wrong as well. i thought his normal, incisive social commentary has failed him here.

the fact is, this is fundamentally this is the tragedy of boris johnson's failure on levelling up. so we came we came to power in 2019 on an agenda of doing something. this is one of the poorest parts of leeds. it has been it has been for years and years and years. and then we were distracted from doing that by covid. within a you've got brexit done 2019, get an election, a couple of months later, you're hit by covid and that takes out the rest of your term. you're followed by a government which doesn't understand levelling up. and now you've got a government that isn't interested in levelling up. it's actually gone and abolished it. so we've got these people who who have been neglected. this guy is right, have been neglected a long time now. what sparked it? that's also quite interesting as far as i can tell. and really, i'm commenting only on the basis of within the papers. there might be more details to come, and i and i might be shown wrong by by what comes later. but it appears to be the case that social workers or agents acting on behalf of social workers go to a

particular family in to order take children into custody, because presumably for good, i have no comment on whether i don't know about the we don't know anything about the individual case, supposedly, but that's what they went to . there that's what they went to. there was some form of resistance that attracted the attention of the police, at least at that stage. it was all under control, so to speak. but it somehow then got out of hand because other people in the neighbourhood maybe from the same community, maybe from different communities, started reacting and joining in and suddenly it kicks off. and that's the spark that appears to be the spark that sets this off. but do you not find it really interesting just to say one thing about this, as far as i know, have there been any injuries in the course of any of this, and has there been appear to be and has there been aware of has there been any looting? well, what has been what is the comparison that paul is drawing here? because this seems to me to be really quite different in character from that. the mark duggan thing was sparked by what was regarded as, in a sense, if you like, a political incident, which is the whole question of

how the police treat black people and which is fundamentally is a political thing rather than a social thing, if you like this, this seems to me to have been sparked in a very different way. and i think we really need to look and what we don't want, what what really must hurt these people is these they're all represented . these they're all represented. now. the whole of leeds is represented by labour mps, you know, who include hilary benn. you know, son and brother of lord viscount stansgate , lord viscount stansgate, tremendously condescending metropolitan elite people who have absolutely no idea . not one have absolutely no idea. not one of them, i think, anticipated this because they don't know their own area, but the hundreds and they're the ones now telling people what the solutions are. >> thousands of people there last night , >> thousands of people there last night, and this is why i say it was gratuitous, is that, i mean , you're absolutely right i mean, you're absolutely right in terms of the trigger, for it was the alleged removal of the children. but, you know , i children. but, you know, i suspect that the vast majority of people who rioted last night probably didn't even know the family or certainly didn't know the details. of course not. riots draw crowds , riots grow.

riots draw crowds, riots grow. and this is the riots just grow. so this is the point that i'm making that for most people , making that for most people, rioting last night, it was gratuitous and there was not a deep seated political grievance because, as i say, most of them would not have known the facts around the removal of the of the children. and in that respect, i think it probably was like 2011. >> yeah. well just just going out for a night in the park, really enjoying themselves. yeah. >> i mean, come on, paul, the other come on paul. there wasn't a deep seated political grievance there. clearly. there clearly is. no, no, that's i'm quoting you there. sorry. i beg your pardon. what i meant was you're saying there wasn't a deep seated political grievance. clearly in circumstances like that, in places that have been ignored like that, there is. and you'd expect somebody to be articulating it . it seems to be articulating it. it seems to be left to this guy. that's not why. >> but come on, come on. >> i need to do that. >> i need to do that. >> it was just what? >> it was just what? >> gentlemen? not why. i don't think that's why they were writing. >> well, you haven't given an explanation of why they were there. >> i think the young men who went out, who you can see giggling and filming on their

own, filming it on their smartphones. yeah, right. the reason i'm doing this, and the reason i'm doing this, and the reason i've joined this and the reason i've joined this and the reason i'm laughing, is that car, that police car is being upturned just, just quickly is because there's been under—investment in our area and there's too much unemployment. there's not enough opportunities that wasn't going through their minds, as you just mentioned, the police there. >> paul, i just want to mention tracy brabin, mayor of west yorkshire, said such criminal behaviour will not be tolerated. my behaviour will not be tolerated. my issue was it was very clearly tolerated. the police literally ran away from this situation and as a football fan who goes to away matches, you look at a police officer in the wrong way and you are treated appallingly and you are treated appallingly and they didn't. why were the police not involved in this? and they didn't come back. >> they didn't come back until 1 am. the first disturbances occurred at 5 pm. and the police withdrew . police withdrew. >> two tier policing in this country. >> well, the police withdrew. and if you look at some of the if you look at some of this footage, some of it is in broad daylight, this is obviously the things that's happening late afternoon, i would imagine. and then you see other footage which is taken clearly at night time. and what strikes me is, i mean that police cars being attacked

there. but what strikes me is in there. but what strikes me is in the footage , lots of footage the footage, lots of footage i've seen, you don't actually see any police officers. you don't hear any sirens in the background, you don't hear any approaching police cars and the riot police eventually apparently turned up at 1:00. now, i think that that's a real problem , because i think when problem, because i think when you've got a situation like that unfolding in one of our major cities, i think you need specially trained riot police who are able to be deployed at the drop of a hat and can get in there and deal with it quickly, sensibly, but quickly. and the fact that the police weren't on the scene for another few hours, and by all accounts from the testimonies, left local citizens to deal with it themselves. i think i think raises serious questions about the way that it the incident was policed and more widely about police. >> yeah, well we saw similar i mean, i'm sorry we did see similar during the black lives. black lives matter movement where the police again shied away from tackling one area of the community where if it was like, say, football fans or tommy robinson for example,

they're straight in there. do you think there's two tier policing in this country, daniel? >> well, of course they could have had to go on a sloping roof. i mean, it might have been that they hadn't done the risk assessment, and true words spoken in jest. >> well, yeah, but i mean, this is and, you know, it's very difficult policing now , you difficult policing now, you can't ask people to put themselves at risk. >> i think there is that perception actually. >> i don't think necessarily there is that explicit two tier policing. i know a lot of people do, but i think when you see, you see right wing patriotic supporters or i don't have much truck with, by the way, the likes of tommy robinson, i've got no time for him at all. but when you see people like him and his crowd demonstrating on whitehall and the police are in there with their batons pretty quickly, i mean, they're not backwards in coming forwards. and yet, when it comes to , you and yet, when it comes to, you know, the sort of thing that we saw last night, there tends to be a stand off. and i'm not suggesting that there is something going on beneath the surface there, but i think perception wise, some people might look at that and say,

well, why one? and there may be an explanation for it. >> i'd like to know, as a football fan who travels to away games, it does annoy me that i'm treated so appallingly as a as a middle aged woman who's not going to cause any harm. >> i just want to read sheila's message out. sheila. >> west ham though. dawn. come on. >> all right. okay sheila says there's always been poverty, but people don't always riot. why is it that some people do and others don't? it's not about poverty or neglect. it's about some communities wanting their own rules. and nick just quickly said, maybe if the residents of harehills are happy to live in a bombsite, the council should have left it in this condition for a while. but let the residents pay for the cleanup. now. lots of innocent people were involved in that, and i'm sure it was terrifying because there weren't any police around and that's my main issue with it. why weren't the police there protecting the innocent people there? right? okay, now we're running out of time again. we move on, just stop oil protesters. they don't go away. do they? have been given up to five years in prison. is that too harsh? or the right decision, or would you chuck away that key? don't go too

hello. this is dewbs& co with me. dawn neesom. hope you're having a wonderful friday out there, keeping me company until 7:00. is conservative life peer in the house of lords, daniel moylan still reading nice emails about himself and trade unionist and author paul embery . who have and author paul embery. who have you had any nice emails? you haven't bothered looking, have you? now you're rising above it and serves them up for later. i'm not going near mine right now. just stop oil love talking about them, don't you, they have just stopped in its tracks. yayi five activists that brought part of the m25 to a standstill in 2022 have been jailed for five years, but it's five years for a peaceful protest. a bit harsh, or is the sentence completely justified? or do you think maybe we should just chuck away the key? daniel, i'm coming to you on this one. >> well, my starting point with anything like this is to say, when it comes to sentencing, the

best person to decide is not me, but the judge. >> yes, because they have to decide. >> start from the point of view that the judge has actually listened to all the evidence, and he's heard the case, both sides. and he spent the time on it, and he sat there and i haven't. and if this is the conclusion he's reached, this is likely to be a good starting point. it's not likely to be totally irrational. he did read out in court. i believe, a list of the sort of people who were disrupted by this. yeah, the families, the people who couldn't get to work, people who couldn't get to work, people who couldn't get to the hospital, the people who couldn't get, the people who couldn't spoilt deliveries of food and stuff like that. >> well, so there was genuine from genuine harm caused by this. >> yes. now you could have right to peaceful protest. you can peacefully protest by writing a letter to your mp at one end of the spectrum, causing harm to others and genuine loss to others. at the other end of the spectrum is something you shouldn't be allowed to get away with. and remember, these people are fanatics. when i was a kid, you used to have sandwich board men going down the oxford street with boards saying the end of the world is nigh. i mean, they

were nutters. these people are nutters like that. they literally believe this is what the world is now, the judge. and they should not be allowed to cause harm to others in pursuit of their crazed beliefs. >> simple as that. >> simple as that. >> and the judge is crazy. so crazy. >> yeah. it's crazy. i do not think the end of the world is nigh. no, i mean, even if you believe that there is an effect on climate from human activity , on climate from human activity, there is no indication to think that the end of the world is nigh and there isn't something we can manage here. >> and the judge did compare the campaigners to fanatics in particular roger hallam, who is the extinction rebellion rebellion founder, and did one infamously say that he would be more than happy to stop an ambulance with a dying person in it with one of his protests? >> i think dawn, because their tactics have become more and more extreme as time has gone on.then more extreme as time has gone on. then sooner or later, a judge somewhere was going to make an example of them and was going to hand down a really stiff sentence, which a lot of their supporters will say, well,

this is absolutely outrageous, but is anyone seriously surprised by it? i mean, you know, they were going to they were going to close the m25 cause massive disruption, cause an enormous amount of human misery as well. and at some point, i think the law has got to intervene and say, do you know what slaps on the wrist are not working and we're going to have to do something harder. i guessin have to do something harder. i guess in their defence, the only thing i would say is when you compare it against other sentences for people who arguably do things more serious, i mean, on the way in, i read about a lorry driver causing a seven car pile up on the n 25 when he was high on cocaine and left an elderly 60, an elderly dnven left an elderly 60, an elderly driver, 65 year old, i think, or whatever he was with life threatening injuries and has been spared jail. and you think, hold on a second. you can, you know, you can cause a multi—car pile up through being high on cocaine while driving your lorry , cocaine while driving your lorry, and you don't go to jail. and we've all seen, you know, there's a litany of cases where people have committed, in some cases , pretty horrific crimes.

cases, pretty horrific crimes. you know , crimes against the you know, crimes against the person, against property , which person, against property, which have caused an awful lot of misery. but, you know, get a slap on the wrist or get a suspended sentence and don't i think the sentence. so on that i don't have a huge amount of sympathy for, for these extinction rebellion and the just stop oil people, when they get these sort of sentences. however, i do think there needs to be some kind of equivalence for people who carry out as bad or arguably worse crimes. and there's often what do we think quickly, gentlemen, of the very celebrities getting involved. >> we had our, chef hugh fearnley—whittingstall, chris packham and even the un getting involved in this one, saying no , involved in this one, saying no, we've got to get we've got to overturn these sentences. they're way too harsh. what do you reckon to that? >> well, it's just clickbait, platforms isn't it? i mean, they want to get their names in front of the public because we keep forgetting how to pronounce hugh fearnley—whittingstall. you know , fearnley—whittingstall. you know, so the more, the more often he's on the telly for something. the better, you know it is. and let's be honest, they'll be

streaking at football matches sooi'i. 500“. >> soon. >> to draw attention, celebrities will trot out what they consider to be higher status opinions because they think it gives them social kudos amongst a bit of virtue signalling, do you reckon? they think it makes them look a lot more enlightened than the rest of us? the masses are a rabble. they're not particularly educated. they live in backward, benighted places in the uk, and these people are far more civilised and liberal and enlightened. >> but it doesn't make their recipes any better. >> no. >> no. >> harsh, right? okay we'll move on on that one, shall we? thank you. >> tell your chef that god almighty used to tell the butler to tell . to tell. >> tell the butler to tell the chef. right. okay. right. coming up.and chef. right. okay. right. coming up. and now a banter at work. ironically, a female office worker has been awarded thousands of pounds in compensation after her boss made a string of sexist jokes and comments. but is it a case of a bad crime or just a bad sense of bad crime orjust a bad sense of humour? don't go too far. loads more coming up on that

>> dividing line okay. >> dividing line okay. >> welcome back. this is dewbs& co with me. dawn neesom on a friday night. hope you have a wonderful time out there. keeping me company until 7:00. is conservative life peer in the house of lords, daniel moylan. lord daniel moylan just told me he doesn't like me not using the word lord. >> oh, come on, i think he was joking though. >> and trade unionist and author paul embery. now, the reason i'm having a bit of banter with the boysis having a bit of banter with the boys is because we're talking about office banter. workplace banter, now a female office worker had been awarded thousands of pounds in compensation after a boss made a string of misogynistic jokes and comments. however, the payout has now been overturned. now, we're not going to talk too much about this case because there was more to this case than just banter, but i've used it as a p99 banter, but i've used it as a peg to try and find out what that dividing line is between office banter and offending somebody. i mean, in this case,

this is a joke i do all the time. by the way. it's like, you know, when you drop something on the floor at work and someone says, why are you down there, love? now i do it all the time. i do it to men as well, is that a kind of joke? daniel's looking at me in that funny way. >> would you like to explain what the joke is? no, no, no, lord, lord morton's before the watershed. oh so is that kind of thing offensive? >> be careful. is it offensive? do you think that sort of. >> all right, here's my portentous thoughts on this. >> i think it's the line is between banter and insult shifts according to what you're actually talking about. so if you're making comments, especially male, to female comments that might have a sexual innuendo, then the line is in one place and you have to be very, very sensitive. if you're making comments about the fact that somebody voted brexit or they vote for the conservative party, you have to mention the line. the line is in a totally different place, isn't it, because you can get away with murder. you can say almost anything in most middle class work environments . you about

work environments. you about people who voted for brexit or people who voted for brexit or people who vote tory or whatever it is, because, you know, they're they're on the condemned side of the line. so you can go as far as you like with banter. you can have people on the television, on comedy shows. i know this is a bit old example, but making comments about battery acid and being allowed to get away with, that's banter, you know? pity it wasn't battery acid , that's banter. that's acid, that's banter. that's okay. that's perfectly all right . okay. that's perfectly all right. well, but if you were to make that make that comment in a different environment about somebody's race, for example , somebody's race, for example, then that would be totally, totally verboten. so what's really interesting is why we draw these lines in different places and why why is this, this dnven places and why why is this, this driver, these distinctions? i think , infuriate a lot of think, infuriate a lot of ordinary people because they feel that they're arbitrary distinctions and they don't reflect their sense of value. >> and context is everything . >> and context is everything. exactly that. >> and there has to be room for context and the relationship you have with the relationship that you have with to you, with the person. >> you know, we might work

together, dawn, and we know what our boundaries are. and i know i can get away with something with you and likewise, which you may not feel that with another person. so i think in that respect, context is everything. but i think where it is clearly, well, it's clearly over the top or where it's clearly unwelcome. and the person on the receiving end has made clear that it's unwelcome, then i think probably it shouldn't occur. and where there's a pattern of it as well. i think i think you probably do need to to, challenge it. and i certainly i wouldn't want my wife and daughter, for example. i wouldn't want them to go into a workplace every day where there was a degree of banter, if it was, let's say, sexually explicit, where as women that was making them feel uncomfortable. >> what is what is sexually explicit, though, i mean, is saying to someone you work with, oh, you really lovely in that dress. it's some of one's sort of like wearing no summer clothes. >> no, i would have no, no, i've got no issue with that at all. okay. i've got no issue with that, with that at all. but you

know, in terms of sexually, if someone said, oh, you've got nice legs, is that different? i think if you're if you're commenting on the person's physical appearance in that kind of focused way, then you are in dangen of focused way, then you are in danger, potentially of crossing the line. but i come back to the point, context is everything. if that, and you have to wait. sometimes i think when you're working with somebody for that relationship to develop and for you to understand, you build that rapport, you understand where the boundaries are, you understand where you can go and where you can't go. so that, for example, in terms of, you know, the thing that you said earlier in the intro, you can say, i won't be in the in the intro to the piece. i wouldn't dream of it. but the we'll wait till we're off camera, obviously, or the thing about the legs, i would, i would be very, i would be very concerned about someone who felt that that was fine. on someone's first day, for example, you had no relationship with that person, but you thought, yeah, i'm going to speak about that woman's legs, or i'm going to make that sort of sexual innuendo. and the context isn't there because you don't know the individual. i think that that woman, let's say, in that situation, has got

every right to say, i'm sorry, that's crossed the line. those are my boundaries. please don't do that. >> do you have any do you have do you have any boundaries, daniel? i mean, would you get upset if. well, what was one thing someone could say to you that would really upset you? >> i'd be thrilled if anyone noficed >> i'd be thrilled if anyone noticed me. so i went i went to the state opening of parliament this week, and i set off in morning dress on the tube in the morning dress on the tube in the morning because you couldn't drive or anything. it was all closed off. so there was i on the tube, on the circle line, and i sat next to this young lad. i didn't even notice her. and as she got off the station before me, she said, i just want to say, you look amazing. oh, and i said, thank you. and i loved it. so i would like more people on the tube when they see me to tell me i look amazing. that'd be great. that would cheer me up. >> no way. >> no way. >> yeah, and they didn't say why you're down there, love. >> it doesn't happen enough. >> it doesn't happen enough. >> no, we are good. we are going to explain that one when we're off air, but i just have a little announcement to make, tonight is the last time that we have holly and cal, our lovely producers, with us. so a toast to them. thank you very much. but don't go too far, because next up is lee anderson. in the

meantime, have a lovely friday evening and enjoy your weekend. cheers cheers, gentlemen. thank you very much. cheers to holly . you very much. cheers to holly. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . solar sponsors of weather on. gb. news >> good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather update brought to you from the met office. humid and cloudy through saturday, but as we head into sunday it's looking mostly dry, but considerably fresher than today. that's because weather fronts are moving in from the north and west and behind that we've got much cooler air arriving through saturday. before then, though, a humid night to come for much of england and wales, as well as some eastern areas of scotland. two quite a lot of cloud building in from the west, but across eastern areas it should stay clear and dry through much of the night. and temperatures here not falling much below 17 or 18 degrees further north and west, though slightly fresher. we've already got that fresher

air arriving into the far north and west by tomorrow morning. so after a spell of rain overnight across the western isles, it will slowly start to brighten up through the day. the rain not arriving to eastern areas of scotland until later on in the day , but a wet start to the day day, but a wet start to the day across northern ireland. temperatures only around 15 degrees here. first thing north east england a dry start to the day . much of eastern east england a dry start to the day. much of eastern and east england a dry start to the day . much of eastern and central day. much of eastern and central areas of england will see some sunshine first thing, but that sunshine first thing, but that sunshine will turn hazier as the day goes on. and that's because this weather front will continue its journey eastwards through the day. now it does bring a risk of some very heavy downpours, particularly across western areas. through the day. it's unlikely to arrive into the east until at least saturday evening, so you should stay dry across eastern areas through much of saturday, but it's still going to feel quite humid out there, and temperatures across east anglia in particular could still reach the high 20s. by contrast, across western areas we're down into the high teens, so a very different feel by the end of the day on saturday, and

that feel will continue into sunday once the rain clears slowly away from the east. actually, there's going to be quite a lot of brightness around on sunday. it should stay dry for most of us, and temperatures will be much more comfortable, much closer to average. however looking ahead to the start of next week, there's the return of some more unsettled weather with temperatures below average by. >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers sponsors of up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb

>> welcome to lee anderson's real world. i'm back in the pub

tonight. got some brilliant guests. they've got one of my favourite guests, matthew stadlen. he's back on the show. also got, bill rammell. he's a former labour mp and minister. it got broadcaster and writer emma webb , olympic legend derek emma webb, olympic legend derek redmond and dating expert kezia noble. but first we're going to the . news. the. news. >> good evening. i'm sophia wenzler from the gb newsroom at 7:00. your top story this hour. cyber security firm crowdstrike has says a fix has been deployed, but admits it could be some time before today's global outages are fully back online. more than 3000 flights at many of the world's airports have been grounded since early this morning , with airlines unable to morning, with airlines unable to complete check ins . banks, complete check ins. banks, supermarkets most gp clinics and even major tv and radio broadcasters are among the many who've been knocked off line.

those