gb. news >> it's 9 pm. i'm patrick christys tonight . oh the police christys tonight. oh the police get stuck in at manchester airport. i'll tell you what really happened. and referendum. >> the referendum. >> the referendum. >> why don't we have a referendum? >> is it time for a referendum on immigration plus. >> well, i'm not interested in playing up to this macho virility test. that seems to be what people are talking about. >> starmer faces a labour rebellion and it gets worse for the pm feeling like my experiences were being weaponized against me in this situation during the whipping operation was absolutely shocking. labour accused of using shameful tactics to whip mps . plus the debate that's got

mps. plus the debate that's got everyone talking so far. well, a slightly different kind of the phrase whipping their butt is that animal abuse or animal training and a british army officer stabbed in broad daylight outside his barracks. what happened? also on my panel tonight, it is former tory cabinet minister michelle donelan, deputy tory director of the popular conservatives mark littlewood and author rebecca read. mark apologies. oh, and can you tell me what happens next here, please? so what happens next? get ready britain, here we go. has keir starmer just dropped

has keir starmerjust dropped a massive clanger? next . massive clanger? next. >> at two minutes after nine, i'm polly middlehurst with the latest gb news and our top story. kent police say the stabbing of a british army officer near a barracks in gillingham is not being treated as terrorism related at this stage . however, they are being stage. however, they are being supported by counter—terror specialists. detectives are continuing with their investigations tonight after witnesses reported hearing screams for help just before 6:00 yesterday evening near brompton barracks, locals rushed to help the uniformed officer who'd been stabbed multiple times, just as the attacker, who was wearing a mask , fled the was wearing a mask, fled the scene on a moped. a suspect was arrested on suspicion of attempted murder about 20 minutes later. after being pursued by members of the public, police recovered knives at the scene. the victim, in his 40s, was airlifted to hospital

with serious injuries. he is in a stable condition and a police officer who was filmed kicking the head of a man lying on the ground at manchester airport has been removed from operational duties. been removed from operational dufies.the been removed from operational duties. the male officer is seen holding a taser over the man who's lying face down, before striking him twice greater manchester police said firearms officers had been subject to a violent assault, where they were punched to the ground, but it also acknowledges the concerns of the conduct within the video. two men were arrested on suspicion of assault , assault of suspicion of assault, assault of an emergency worker, affray and obstructing police, while two other men were also arrested. on suspicion of affray and assault of an emergency worker. police confirmed to us three officers had to be taken to hospital for treatment, with one female officer suffering a broken nose . officer suffering a broken nose. in politics today, sir keir starmer accused the previous government of losing control of

britain's borders as he took part in his first pmqs as prime minister. reform uk's rupert lowe quizzed the prime minister on labour's migration plans, claiming that failure to control the borders has damaged britain's communities. the prime minister conceded that small boat crossings in the english channel are a serious issue, but laid blame on the tories. meanwhile, nominations open this evening to succeed rishi sunak as leader of the conservative party. shadow home secretary james cleverly threw his hat in the ring last night, saying he's running to take the party's top job. and he published a video emphasising that as foreign and former home secretary, he said the tories need to re—establish a reputation as the party that helps grow the economy and help people achieve their aspirations. he's the first to announce a leadership bid. any challenges will need to get in before nominations close on monday . monday. >> i think they should go bankrupt. that'd be rather

lovely and very few decent people in the tory party, and i certainly don't want liz truss orjohnson back again. or johnson back again. >> orjohnson back again. >> well, they should be looking to appeal to their core voters and the policies that they present. taxation for one issue, a main issue, a reason why, a reason why i failed to vote for them this time . them this time. >> there are no statesmen anymore. i don't consider, starmer to be a statesman or statesman material . statesman material. >> and lastly, two state bentleys used by his majesty the king are to be converted to run on biofuel over the next year amid a boost in profits from the crown estate. there are also plans to switch the monarchy's entire fleet of official cars to run on electric, while solar panels have been introduced at windsor castle. it comes as the estate's profits hit £i.i estate's profits hit £1.1 billion, all of which goes to the treasury. treasury. it means that the sovereign grant, which funds the monarchy, will

increase from 86 million to 132 million. the funds being used to complete the final stages of renovations to buckingham palace in london. those are your latest gb news headlines. for now. i'm polly middlehurst. i'm back in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . gbnews.com forward slash alerts. >> welcome along. loads to go out tonight , but we start with out tonight, but we start with this keir starmer has unleashed a civil war within the labour party. last night there was a vote on the two child benefit cap and some of his own mps spoke out against labour's position. if the labour party has a moral mission, it must be to eradicate poverty. >> the key driver of rising child poverty is the two child benefit cap , and the single most benefit cap, and the single most effective way of tackling child poverty is immediately lifting

300,000 children out of poverty by scrapping this cruel policy. it is a move backed by everyone from gordon brown. all 11 trade unions affiliated to the labour party , as well as the tuc, which party, as well as the tuc, which represents 6 million workers, as well as the archbishop of canterbury and save the children. >> well , several children. >> well, several labour mps voted against starmer's position and then today he basically sacked them all. there they are. we've got apsana begum, imran hussain, rebecca long—bailey, ian burn, richard burgon, zarah sultana and john mcdonnell, but they're not taking it lying down. sultana teed off again today. >> so your view of keir starmer today, having also kicked you out of the party is what? >> well, i'm not interested in playing up to this macho virility test that seems to be what people are talking about. it's about the material conditions of 330,000 children living in poverty. what >> and apsana begum made some astonishing allegations that the

party whips were making trade offs on the issue with her of domestic violence, and that was shocking and unacceptable . shocking and unacceptable. >> suggesting here. so they they offered you what support in bills that you may have around that particular issue if you voted with them. yes >> okay. so then she went even further with my ex—husband was raised in the context of the conversation that shook me as well. >> in terms of the whipping operation, i'm a survivor of domestic abuse and coercive control. i've just had to run in an election in which my ex—husband was standing against me and feeling like my experiences were being weaponized against me in this situation. during the whipping operation was absolutely shocking. and the fact that supporting me regarding my ex—husband was discussed in this context is completely unacceptable. >> mrs. begum's ex—husband denies any wrongdoing, but now magic grandpa. jeremy corbyn has penned this letter. he's urging all the rebels to come together. they now go and join the fruity five independence magic .

they now go and join the fruity five independence magic. grandpa himself, jeremy corbyn, in that kind of quite nutty wing of the house of commons. but number 10 has hit back , they said. we've has hit back, they said. we've been very clear on our position on the child limit and why we did not commit to removing it. both during the campaign and since. and that is because given the economic situation we've inherited, we are very clear that we're not going to make promises that we can't keep. now, clearly voting against the party's position on the king's speech is a serious matter . so speech is a serious matter. so the problem for starmer is now he's set a precedent. he'll basically sack you if you vote against him. this means other political parties can set him up with more votes going forward. is this just a sign of the chaos to come under labour? let's get our thoughts on my panel tonight. i'm joined by former cabinet minister michelle donelan. i've also got director of the popular conservatives, mark littlewood and author and journalist rebecca reid. mark, i'll start with you on this. do you think that this is a sign of the chaos under labour? if i was the chaos under labour? if i was the tories or the snp or anyone,

i'd be tabling motions. i knew that his backbenchers didn't agree with time and time again now. how. >> now. >> yeah, i mean, keir starmer's approach seems to be that the beatings will continue until morale improves , right? that's morale improves, right? that's essentially what he's saying to his party. this is , however, his party. this is, however, a reflection that he's got a majority of 170. right. so losing 5 or 6 here, 10 or 20, there is not a disaster. however, jeremy corbyn's letter here, i think, is the real threat for keir starmer. if he's got a couple of dozen labour mps who are permanently rebelling against him, he can remove the whip or he can just ignore them. it doesn't matter. he'll still pass everything he wants through parliament. but if they start to become a force and start operating together , it's my view operating together, it's my view that we could actually see in the coming weeks and months the emergence of the equivalent of the reform party on the left. you've got jeremy corbyn, you've got these five gaza independents, you've now got seven who've had the whip withdrawn. george galloway , no withdrawn. george galloway, no longer in parliament but has some sort of party infrastructure . i'm expecting a infrastructure. i'm expecting a

left wing socialist party to emerge , and the labour party emerge, and the labour party have got 34% of the vote at the general election. that is a big threat to him. >> michelle, this is the loveless landslide as it's been called now. and are we now seeing just the first interaction, the first skirmishes of what could be an ongoing labour civil war? >> well, i think the cracks are already showing this quickly and that speaks volumes. so i was a whip in a very difficult time. so during the brexit time of theresa may, which was like banging your head against a brick wall, i can tell you. and that almost felt like an impossible task. but i think labour whips themselves have an even more impossible task now, trying to bring this massive , trying to bring this massive, broad church together who have got this very left contingent. you've got number 10 trying to also go up to the middle ground to get that second term. you've also got some really young and inexperienced mps and at the same time they've got the threat of reform too. so they do need to tackle some of those issues. and they've got a problem with patronage. now they know that in terms of the numbers, the odds are against their people getting jobs because they've got such a

big majority, they've already annoyed a load of them by appointing some of the new intake that had no parliamentary experience. so they've got a problem. i think the cracks have shown, and i think they're going to tear themselves apart during the course of this parliament. >> yeah. well indeed, rebecca, i'll throw it to you on this. i mean, is labour at risk of looking like a kind of collection of fruitcakes, really? you've got the likes of clive lewis there, who's, you know, making a big performance out of, you know, taking the oath to the king. you've got this kind of faction now. and if i was, you know, in a position where, you know, now cabinet ministers were coming on my show every single time, i would ask them , how did you actually feel them, how did you actually feel about the two child benefit cap? because i don't reckon you could fit a rizla paper between david lammy and zarah sultana on this issue. >> but actually, yes, but that's actually fairly ridiculous because there is a very good reason not to change this. so every single person who has a child in this country can claim this. you had to pay tax on it. if you're above a certain a certain income threshold, but you don't need £25 a week per child, first child, 16 or 17 for a second child. if you're on 200 grand, it's an insane thing to do. so all he's done is made a

perfectly sensible ruling, which is that this isn't the sensible option. we do need to look at how we deal with child poverty, but improving the economy is the best way to do that. so he is doing sensible, grown up politics and a small handful of people who didn't like him to start with, who didn't really support him when they were having to campaign in his benefit, have now done what they were always going to do and disapproved of it. >> but what happens, what happens going forward when at some point they're going to have to bring some legislation on illegal immigration to, to the house? they are going to have to and now the snp or the tories could deliberately start tabling things that they know that the people behind keir starmer are going to be are going to. >> why would you do that if you care about this country, but if you care about this country, why would you deliberately try and screw up someone's ability to run it? >> okay, well, maybe you should. >> okay, well, maybe you should. >> what an insane way to behave. it's so childish. >> the opposition to oppose the government. >> no, no, but. but for not not for the sake of it. >> and. well, no. and to expose cracks and disagreements and the like. >> what a bonkers way to try and run a country.

>> it's so petty to run the country. >> it's up to the mps on the opposition benches to hold him to account and to point out what might be going wrong. that is their duty. >> what might be going wrong. yes, but deliberately tabling things you don't care about to try and wind somebody up is so pathetic . pathetic. >> if there are divisions in the labour cabinet, it is right to point those out. >> i think there are so many people, patrick. >> what he's really going to come up against, i mean, immigration, god only knows what they're going to do. but it's this there is no money to spend. if there ever was a magic money tree, all of the fruit has been plucked off it. and this child benefit thing, you could decide you're going to spend 3.5 billion on, on on changing policy . but there isn't 3.5 policy. but there isn't 3.5 billion behind the sofa. and i think the trouble is going to run into is going to be endless issues like this, whether it's pubuc issues like this, whether it's public sector pay rises, more money for the nhs child benefit. i think there is no money there. >> the other point is that a lot of these mps that have been there, a while have been very much into protest mode and opposition mode. now, transitioning to governing is a very different kettle of fish and actually not relying on the

magic money tree. not constantly saying that you can just fix that problem, but being actually able to do it is a different thing. >> but that's what they're currently doing. that's what he's doing. but not all the sensible world. that's why those divisions are a small number, a small number of people will. but also, i'm not sure that reform is bad for the tories, and i'm not sure that this version would be bad for labour. it's good to have people from both sides talking to you, but it should be progressive and for a good reason, not just because you deliberately want to make trouble. >> zarah sultana appears to have pointed out keir starmer's position on this two child benefit cap now appears to be at odds with a huge number of charities who are massively left leaning and basically all the units. >> he's not saying he's not going to change it, but again, it's a wait and see. >> it's like they've done on healthcare. it's we'll do a review. it's sort of long grass in all these things. just long grass. yes. because now as opposed long grass as opposed to what happened during the election where you just threw stuff at the wall, went, oh, national service gave everyone a free pony. >> that's not how you do grown up policy. you do things sensibly with time. >> there's another issue coming down the track here, which is about getting people off benefits and into work. and

we're going to talk about this a little bit later on. but there's a similar row that's going to happen here because rishi sunak dunng happen here because rishi sunak during the campaign was very much of the idea that actually more people can work and therefore they should be incentivised into asda, keir starmer starmer took the approach that if we made them all better on the nhs, they'd go into it, i.e. assuming that everyone was being truthful about their illnesses, also getting rid of zero hours contracts. these are things he's got an adviser who's telling him, actually, you need to give a bit of stick to some of these people that's going to play badly behind him. has keir starmer made a rod for his own back when it comes to just removing the whip from these people, will that be a problem for him? >> no, i think he's actually made the right move here, but he can't make a habit of it if his majority falls by 14 every week. this, this, this colossal majority melts away. but it's probably he's identified. i reckon, a dozen or so likely troublemakers. and he's got the whips office have got their names marked. >> what i will say, michelle, is, you know, there's not a huge amount of opposition in the chamber at the moment. it's probably a good thing that some of that's coming from somewhere, even if it is behind the prime minister. >> well, i think look, i think we are the official opposition and we're standing up to this

government. but the fact that it's dividing itself already speaks volumes. i think he has actually made the right call. fair enough. but if he does carry on like this, it will be in a very weak position. the proof will be in the pudding over the next few weeks. whether he can actually hold it together and the next few years. and i think these cracks are just going to deepen. >> do you think the cracks will deepen or. >> no, i don't at all. i think there are lots of places like immigration where he will go for a very pro—european, attitude, which will bring people on, as well as pushing people away, which i think will neutralise itself. all right. >> well, that's another issue that we're going to be talking about later on in this show. it's an action packed show coming up. lee anderson is live in the studio as we talk benefits labour's prison chaos and the latest potential tory defections to reform. don't miss that. plus, doorbell footage captures the moment a british army officer was stabbed in broad daylight outside his barracks. i'll show you the full clip and i'll bring you the very latest on that. but next, british olympic hero charlotte dujardin has lost her shot at gold, a damehood and potentially much, much more as well. for this so far .

much, much more as well. for this so far. her yeah divided people this. has her punishment been too harsh ? do we think an been too harsh? do we think an animal rising spokesman goes head to head with lady colin campbell? and that's

next. welcome back to patrick christys

tonight. coming up. should the long term sick be forced to seek work? reform uk mp lee anderson is live in the studio on that next. but first was olympic dressage star charlotte dujardin's. punishment for whipping a horse too harsh. it's time now for the head to head. well, six time olympic medallist charlotte dujardin's career is in tatters tonight after she was forced to withdraw from paris 2024 and handed a provisional six month ban after a video of her whipping a horse during a lesson four years ago emerged . lesson four years ago emerged. showing . showing. >> she's so cute. it hit me hard.

when you watch this back , when you watch this back, >> so the sport's governing body was sent that video on monday when a dutch lawyer raised a grievance on behalf of his anonymous client . and since anonymous client. and since then, dujardin's career has been in freefall. she's also now expected to lose out on a damehood and has been dumped by numerous sponsors. but is the punishment too harsh? let me know your thoughts. go to gbnews.com forward slash your say. tweet me on gb news while you're there, go and vote in our poll. but first going head to head on this are the former british army officer and animal rising spokesperson alastair stewart, and the royal commentator, lady colin campbell. both of you, thank you very, very much. and lady c, i'll start with you on this . i'll start with you on this. that clip does look quite shocking to a lot of people. where do you stand on whether or not it was right that dujardin's career and essentially life now is in tatters?

>> well , first of all, patrick, >> well, first of all, patrick, good evening and may i say one of my closest friends knows her very well. charlotte dujardin used to ride her ponies when she was seven years old. when charlotte was seven years old, this friend of mine is one of the leading dressage judges in the leading dressage judges in the world. she says that charlotte , even as a little charlotte, even as a little girl, was absolutely wonderful with horses. and if you listen to that clip , she is actually to that clip, she is actually complaining about what she is doing. she was obviously made to doing. she was obviously made to do it for most likely a very good reason, and did not enjoy doing it. and i think it is an absolute disgrace that first of all, we as a country should lose our chance to have somebody possibly bring home a gold medal for us because of what is

basically, evidently the friend of mine said she thinks that the green eyed monster is responsible for this. okay. and but whatever the reason is, the fact of the matter is , when you fact of the matter is, when you are training horses. and she didn't injure the horse. okay, let's be clear. >> i get that, i get that i'll come. i'll come back to you later. i will come back to you, alastair. i'll bring you in now. so, animal rising spokesperson i assume you have a different view on this. do you think it's right now that dujardin has basically lost everything, >> good evening. patrick. >> good evening. patrick. >> thank you very much for having me on. i'm not. i wouldn't say i'm particularly interested in whether or not the punishment for charlotte dujardin is an appropriate one, i think. i think i speak for the majority of the british public when i say i was sickened and shocked to watch this footage where you can you clearly see dujardin whipping this horse, causing them, you know, stress and pain and fear. causing them, you know, stress and pain and fear . and it's just and pain and fear. and it's just not right. and i'm very surprised to hear lady c

defending her and defending this kind of activity. and i must say, i'm pretty confused by it . say, i'm pretty confused by it. >> okay, well, ladies here, i mean, i cut you off before, but from what i'm hearing from you, i don't want to put words in your mouth, but you seem to think this is this is part of training a dressage horse. is it? >> you know, i mean, i'm surprised that anybody is that surprised. first of all, dressage. dressage is a very unnatural thing. horses are supposed to be running free and well, i come from i come from a family that was jamaica's leading racing family for 40 years and very familiar with how horses need to be trained. you know, it's yes , they they do know, it's yes, they they do have to be, they you do have to at times inflict pain. there's a difference between inflicting pain and injury. you don't injure a horse. and nobody who is an equestrian of any description would ever try to

injure a horse. they love their animals. and also it's quite clear if you listen to it, that she is doing something that she is reluctant to, but there are most likely very good reasons why she did it. and i'll tell you what 1 or 2 of them could be, you know, the person who was riding the horse was most likely the owner of the horse . and if the owner of the horse. and if the owner of the horse. and if the horse wasn't going to live up to its purpose, the horse, they would have lost the horse. they most likely wanted to keep the horse. okay. they and often in with in, in situations like that, horses are just not put out to the field to graze. they are sold on to the knacker's yard. they are. yes realities behind this , that, that namby behind this, that, that namby pamby bleeding hearts don't seem to understand . to understand. >> yeah, okay. fair enough. i gather that's that side of it.

and, alistair, i just wonder if there's an element to this which maybe you might latch on. which is if this if this whole thing is if this if this whole thing is a bit unnatural, i.e. making a horse do dressage. i suppose as far as animal raisi are concerned that that suggests that really we shouldn't be doing this thing at all. >> that's exactly right, patrick. if you know, looking at this footage and condemning it makes me a bleeding heart and namby pamby liberal, then i'm proud to be one. i'm afraid to say this. this is called a head to head debate. i think i agree with lady c and a lot of the things she said. dressage is unnatural. this is not what horses have naturally evolved to do. and you do have to inflict pain that that is how dressage works. but beyond that, that is how horse riding as an industry, as a system works. i mean, going even beyond that. that is how industries for food and clothing and labour, entertainment, experimentation, this is how all of these industries work. they're all exploitative and they all inflict pain and suffering, and it's not good enough. we can do better, >> okay. i mean, i suppose i'll just stick with you because i'll give lady c the final word on this, but yeah. is there an

argument to say that actually we're just a little bit soft? you know, people like us maybe, who are a bit detached from what life is like, you know, are stables or at a farm or in the wild, dare i say , where? nature wild, dare i say, where? nature is quite brutal. i mean, how do we know that that horse was actually really suffering? i mean, i would not like to be repeatedly, you know, struck like that. obviously not. but, you know, this is this is an animal. we're talking about a big animal. and this is a training process. i mean, is it actually that bad? it was four years ago. this lady is, you know, a serial winner, a high level. you would have thought that if she was genuinely really cruel to animals or evil, there's something like this might have come out at some point in her career before aleister. >> well, patrick, i mean, when you when you said you wouldn't like to be whipped like that, i agree with you. and that is the bafis agree with you. and that is the basis of animal rights. it's just treating animals as a sentient beings worthy of moral consideration that they are, in fact, are. horses deserve not to be used as a means to an end. they don't deserve to be, to be, you know, bred into existence,

bought and sold, broken in, trained , whipped. like this. trained, whipped. like this. they don't deserve to be hurt. simple as that. >> okay. i mean, i think and i think that is a massive point of difference because alistair and you're perfectly entitled to this view. obviously but, you know, essentially doesn't think that these sports should exist or the really i don't want to put words in your mouth, alistair, but really, the animals like that should be kept in captivity and all of that stuff. whereas lady c, you you just think that this lady should, should keep her job and should, should keep herjob and that she's, what, the victim of some kind of woke animal rights campaign. >> first of all, anybody who knows about horses knows that they have very thick skins. you know, they they're not human beings. they don't have very thin skins. that's the first thing. the second thing is they wouldn't exist. people don't seem to understand farm animals. race horses are dressage horses. they wouldn't exist if the sport didn't exist . they're not. didn't exist. they're not. they're being bred for a purpose . they're being bred for a purpose. without the purpose, they wouldn't exist . are we seriously wouldn't exist. are we seriously

suggesting that we should be so loving towards animals that they should never exist? and also, you know, to say that dressage is exploitative the way you say, say, children in india being exploited in the clothing industry is just preposterous. i'm sorry. it's a leap too far. it's a horse. and she didn't injure the horse. she she clearly didn't enjoy what she was doing. and the alternative could have been that she and the owner were trying to save the horse from the knacker's yard. let's have a sense of proportion here. you know , nowadays here. you know, nowadays everybody is very to happy condemn out of context. let's have things in context. all right. and why should her career be destroyed? it's ridiculous . be destroyed? it's ridiculous. >> all right, look, both of you, thank you very, very much.

definitely got both sides of that. so that is a former british army officer and animal rising spokesperson there, alastair stewart and royal commentator, lady colin campbell. thank you. so in a statement, charlotte dujardin said a video has emerged from four years ago which shows me making an error of judgement dunng making an error of judgement during a coaching session. understandably, the international federation for equestrian sports is investigating and i have made the decision to withdraw from all competition, including the paris olympics, while this process takes place. what happened was completely out of character and does not reflect how i train my horses or coach my pupils. however, there is no excuse. i'm deeply ashamed and should have set a better example in that moment. i'm sincerely sorry for my actions and devastated that i've let everyone down, including team gb fans and sponsors. quite a major culprit there, it must be said. so who do you agree with that video, and did charlotte dujardin's olympic dream? do you think the punishment was too harsh ? kenneth on x has been in harsh? kenneth on x has been in touch. there is a dutch sex offender who raped a young girl competing at the olympics, but dujardin gets banned for whipping a horse . madness. that whipping a horse. madness. that is a very good point, i must say,

kenneth, that that is that is a fact. there is a dutch sex offender who raped a young girl competing at the olympics , competing at the olympics, whereas a woman who whipped a horse is not. so there we go. louise says. not harsh enough as the punishment. and patrick, great name on x as the punishment didn't go far enough. being cruel to an animal for her own gain is disgraceful. right 36% of you think the punishment is too harsh. 64% of you say it is too harsh. 64% of you say it is not. so you're definitely on the side of the horse there. coming up, keir starmer has a new catchphrase. everybody >> have a more severe crisis than we thought. as we go through the books. >> get used to that . he's going >> get used to that. he's going to keep saying it, but our labour paving the way for an enormous tax raid on pensioners and the middle class. top political commentator theo usherwood, is live shortly . usherwood, is live shortly. plus, this no nonsense policing has divided opinion . online. oh has divided opinion. online. oh but do we want a police force or

a police service? we'll debate that at ten next though. lee anderson is live in the studio. we talk benefits. we're talking labour's prison chaos and more potential tory defections don't go anywhere

welcome back to patrick christys. tonight. only on gb news. and i'm joined now by reform uk mp lee anderson. and let's get straight into it , lee,

let's get straight into it, lee, because the former labour health secretary alan milburn, has issued the government with a report that says the long term sick should be forced to seek work. now. he found that seven out of ten of the economically inactive want to work, but few have any help or requirement to do so. so here he is actually speaking to gb news yesterday. >> if we're going to be able to fuel growth in the british economy, then we've got to get more of those people back into work because otherwise you rely on more and more immigration. and as we know, that has become more and more politically toxic as an issue. >> all right , lee, so what do >> all right, lee, so what do you make of that then? do you think the labour backbenchers will get behind the idea that we've got to give people who are off long term sick a bit of a kick up the backside? >> well, probably not patrick, but just imagine if i'd have said that a few months back. people have been the left would have been leaping on me, but it makes a fair point. there is, a small percentage in this country, a tiny percentage of a work shy sort of culture that will play the old bad back game, i think now they use, mental

illnesses and all sorts of stuff to, to get out of putting a shift in. there is a hard core element that will just refuse to go to work . they're dependent on go to work. they're dependent on benefits and it's high time we got these people off. but on the flip side, there are genuine people who's been labelled as long term sick or disabled or whatever that felt uncomfortable to return to the workplace. we need to support these people and get them back in the workplace, get them back in the workplace, get them back in the workplace, get them producing, get them paying get them producing, get them paying taxes, and you know, grow our economy. that's just common sense. nice. >> you make a fair point, though, because during the election campaign, rishi sunak was saying that, you know, there are loads of people out there who can work and they need to be given a nudge to get back into work because they're deliberately not. keir starmer's approach was actually, i believe that they're all unwell, and if we sort the nhs out, they'll all go back to work. so that doesn't really chime with what that former labour. >> no it doesn't i mean starmer is talking rubbish and you go to the poorer countries around the world, patrick, where there's no, benefit system in place regardless of your disability or illness, those people go to work because if they don't work, they

have to eat. so that proves my point that people in this country who have got a disability, who may have an illness, if they're supported correctly, they can go to work, you know, back, you know, back after the war, many, many years ago, i think something like 95% of disabled people actually had a job. and the reason they had a job is because they were supported in the workplace. >> okay. interesting stuff. let's just whiz it on now and talk about prisons actually, because last week, justice secretary shabana mahmood announced plans to release thousands of prisoners early by reducing the minimum sentence term spent in prison from 50% to 40%. well, it turns out the pubuc 40%. well, it turns out the public aren't happy with it. a new yougov poll has found that a whopping 71% of people oppose this policy , while only 1 in 6 this policy, while only 1 in 6 support it. because also as well by the way, despite telling us they wouldn't, they're going to release violent criminals. so you know, lock your doors. but lee, where do reform stand on this? because reforms policy in the election was more stop and search, very popular policy, more stop and search, but more stop and search would mean more people in prison and we do not have room for them. so what

would reform do about this? >> well, first of all, patrick, i think we've got about 10,000 foreign nationals in our prisons at the moment. i would be shipping them out, at the moment. i would be shipping them out , first thing shipping them out, first thing tomorrow morning. that'll be a little bit of space up. and we need to, you know, we see people in this country and this might seem controversial, but you know what? you know, look at our brave boys in the armed forces in submarines and, you know, jobs like that, that's defending the realm they hotbed. a lot of the realm they hotbed. a lot of the time. i'd have some of these prisoners on 12 hour shifts out in the fields picking fruit and vegetables, and then, you know, they could have they could have other criminals in the prison system. they could be sharing beds 12 hours each, get them working, get them working days, get them working nights , get them working nights, contribute towards so double up. >> so basically put put let's say instead of two to a cell, four to a cell. but i have two of them working night shifts and two of them working day shifts. >> i mean, so there'd be some people out there thinking, oh, this is crazy. it's not crazy. normal, decent, hard working people do this. go to places like boston. they're hotbed.

>> you know, you've got you've got ten to a mattress in boston in some of the housing accommodation there. >> okay. well, rocket science, this is an interesting it's an interesting take. i must say. i mean, i wonder if that will make it on to the next reform party manifesto, we'll have to see. >> it'll be on twitter later. >> it'll be on twitter later. >> it'll be on twitter later. >> it'll be. it probably will. yeah, but. but gb news is reported now that four tory mps are on a watch list to defect to reform. who are they? lee. >> it was reporting this. >> it was reporting this. >> oh, this has been out there. it's been reportedly. >> well, look, i mean, it's no secret that the conservative party are in a little bit of trouble at the moment. and i would suspect, patrick, that some of my colleagues, with hindsight, would probably wish that they'd join the reform party a few months back. they would have kept the seats in the red wall. i think there was only me out of the two 2019 intake that actually kept the seat in the red wall, and, and i was a reform candidate this time. i wouldn't be surprised. come the autumn when they've decided who their leader is going to be, or at least who's been shortlisted, that, some people might come

oven over. >> oven >> do you think if and we're going to talk about this later. so the nominations to become the next tory party leader opened at 7 pm. tonight. later on, i've got, one of priti patel's top allies, greg smith mp on. so i'll be talking to him a bit about that in more detail. but do you think if the tories choose a leader who's a bit wet, that actually you're anticipating that more people from the tories will listen if the tory party choose a wet? >> i want to have that extension built outside of my house, because i'll be in parliament for another ten, 15 years. i suspect they will do that , the suspect they will do that, the conservative party, as it stands at the moment. bear in mind, patrick, a lot of the good guys have gone, you know, a lot of these are, of course, solid conservatives. they've lost their seats. it's probably, you know, 80% wets in the conservative party at the moment. they're not in touch with the real real world. they'll probably pick a wet and that's a green light for the reform party because then there's no difference. we've seen in pmqs today it was so boring. the conservative backbenchers and the frontbench

offered nothing in resistance to the labour party. >> what's interesting you said i mean later on we're going to be having a chat about nigel calling for an immigration referendum. he's already said he want a referendum on the echr. you look at it and, you know, people can agree or disagree with that, but it's an opposition. it's an opposite view. we've not really seen a huge amount of opposition yet. i suppose the tories will say they're finding their feet or whatever. but just finally, nigel farage, his first day in parliament, he said that he would rely on you, right, you and you alone to show him the ropes. but yesterday he said, i walked through the voting lobby earlier this evening, number 78. they said no, i'm told i should have tapped my pass on a reader to talk about new boy at school. where were you, lee? you didn't. you didn't tell. you didn't tell nigel how he had to vote in parliament, >> nigel's a good friend and a great colleague, but he needs to pay great colleague, but he needs to pay more attention there were. there was five of us went through the voting lobby. he'll be watching nigel, four of us top the cards, the thing is, with nigel, it gets distracted because everybody wants to talk to him. whether it's, conservative mps, whether it's staffers, security men every five minutes or every five

seconds when you're with him on the estate, people stopping in for a selfie, the talk is getting distracted. so it's an easy mistake. >> what's he like behind the scenes with nigel? i know we have to be quick with this, but are there a lot of parliamentary staffers from like the labour and the tory party that are , and the tory party that are, like constantly trying to. yeah, like constantly trying to. yeah, like it's a bit of a it's like it's like a hollywood movie star walking through the estate . walking through the estate. >> everybody wants to have a selfie with him. so it's a little bit distracting. so sometimes i'll have to take him around the give him. they agree with him though. >> or do you think he's just because he's a bit of a celeb? because i'm trying to piece together whether or not there's actually quite a bit of support from amongst younger parliamentary staffers and other parties. >> yeah, especially with young people. gen z, i mean, go on tiktok is following is amazing. and there was young people in ashfield voted for me, not for me. they said they voted for me because they liked nigel on tiktok. >> well, there you go. you'll have to get him back to ashfield at some point soon. all right, lee, look, thank you very much as ever. look, coming up, this no nonsense policing has seriously divided opinion . oh so seriously divided opinion. oh so we're going to debate whether we

want a police service or a police force soon. but next, sir keir starmer again claims public finances are worse than he thought. all right. that's his new catchphrase are labour overplaying the crisis? so they can tax you and pensioners a lot more money? political commentator theo usherwood has got expert analysis on this, and it's

next. okay. this is patrick christys tonight on gb news. welcome back. now coming up, do we need to have an immigration referendum? nigel farage thinks so. but first it was this that was a toolmaker. >> he worked in a factory all of his life. >> and now sir keir starmer has got a new catchphrase here he was at pmqs earlier today. >> we have a more severe crisis than we thought. >> as we go through the books of the last 14 years, we must review. >> we must review. yeah, you're going to hear a lot of that.

you're going to hear a lot of that. the crisis, the crisis is worse than we thought. but could starmer's handy new catchphrase pave the way for loads of tax rises? reports today suggest labouris rises? reports today suggest labour is planning a tax raid bonanza. experts are warning that chancellor rachel reeves could target capital gains and inheritance tax at the next budget. but there's more. i'm joined now by former lbc political editor theo usherwood. theo thank you very, very much. now talk me through, please. and our viewers, some of these tax raids, especially, i think when it comes to pensions and pensioners, this is a big deal potentially if it goes through the budget, if rachel reeves bnngs the budget, if rachel reeves brings it forward at the budget, because it could amount to £50 billion in tax rates on pensions. >> and i explain how it works briefly. so at the moment, if you are a if you earn, say let's say £130,000 a year. so it's going to affect those where anybody over 50 grand. but if you earn £130,000 a year, you can say , actually i don't want can say, actually i don't want to be into the top rate of tax at £0.45 in the pound. i don't want to be subject to the marginal rate of tax, which of course kicks in over 100 grand

because you lose your personal allowance. so what i'm going to do is i'm going to take £40,000. i'm just going to put that straight into my pension. and that's tax free at the moment. and that's a huge benefit. and it encourages people to save. right. it encourages you to do the right thing. the responsible thing and save for your retirement. now what's being proposed? the idea that i think is going to be proposed at the budget is to introduce a flat rate of tax on your pension at 30%. so what happens is that anything above 30% is going to get taxed. so that anybody who earns 50 grand or more and then puts that money into a pension, and we're talking people with ordinary jobs here. many of your viewers @gbnews head teachers , viewers @gbnews head teachers, senior nurses, people who have their own businesses but don't make an absolute killing every yean make an absolute killing every year, but they earn good. okay money, right. they're going to be subject that if they want to actually try and do the responsible thing and save , responsible thing and save, they're now going to that that money that they're putting into their pensions is going to be subject to tax. if it comes in at 30%. the way keir starmer is

going to trial, rachel reeves is going to trial, rachel reeves is going to trial, rachel reeves is going to try and get round it. is that actually if your basic rate taxpayer and of course that threshold is at 20%, you're actually going to see a benefit of an additional 10% allowance, which effectively is going to be a free gift from the government. but of course, you could legitimately say that if you are, you know, because of fiscal drag, suddenly find yourself earning 50 grand or more. you are a working person . and the are a working person. and the promise during the general election campaign from keir starmer was that he was not going to introduce new taxes on working people. and that's that's the point of debate. >> but there's, there's, there's the working people thing. absolutely. but there is also the idea, i think, isn't there of pensions and pensioners . so of pensions and pensioners. so you're getting taxed in the first place. yes. and then you're getting taxed again. oh, it's a double whammy. >> yeah . absolutely. so when >> yeah. absolutely. so when you, when you put that money into your pension and then of course you withdraw that money from your pension, you are taxed on that. if it goes at the rate of income tax. right. so you're going to hit you're going to suddenly hit a double whammy. they're going to tax you twice

on the same money that you've earned. so i mean it's quite big isn't it. it's huge. and it would amount to yeah it amounts to 50. you know if they if they do it in that way it could, you know, go up to £50 billion. and, but to your point that you were playing that excerpt there from keir starmer, in the house of commons was, you know, the mess is, is, is beyond anything that we imagined we've got we've got to clear up the public finances. we don't have a huge amount of to money play with, and that's what's going to be used to justify stepping in with a huge tax rate. and that's and that's not counting, of course, what they could be doing around, capital gains tax. they're not going to introduce it of course on primary homes. but they could put it put up the rates and they could also look potentially on council tax as well, because of course at the moment there's a 4.99%. anything above that needs a referendum. but they could give councils the wherewithal to put up taxes on that as well. well, you mentioned you mentioned referenda and there is another story in town . another story in town. >> nigel farage used his maiden speech in parliament yesterday to ask for a referendum on leaving the echr. he's not going to get one, obviously, but the prime minister, keir starmer,

has already poured cold water on the idea. not only has he vowed to keep the uk in the echr, he's also about to cosy up even more to the eu, so he'll meet with european commission president ursula von der leyen in a few weeks time in a bid to reset relations. what can we expect here? there >> so there's going to be a focus on trade. we've talked previously about dynamic alignment, so making it in effect that we sign up in the in britain to what we call all of the eu rules and regulations in perpetuity. so if the eu changes the rules, then we're going to follow that. we're not going to have a debate about it. we're just going to follow those rules. and that would mean that when you when it comes to just in time manufacturing, for instance, particularly things like car manufacturing or chemicals, it would be on an industry by industry basis. and we will sign up to that. and that's one of the areas they're looking at. and then what i think you'll see happen, patrick, is that other industries will start putting up their hands and saying, actually, you know, if it saves us in the paperwork, we'll have that as well. but let's not forget. and charles michel, who, of course, is a very senior,

bureaucrat in brussels, has said very clearly that actually there's going to be a cost to, you know, if we if we want something, the eu is going to ask for something in return. and one of the things they're looking at potentially is free movement for anybody 18 to 30 to come to the uk and work or to britain to work freely, we'll have to watch this space. >> i'm sorry, we've got a bit squeezed there, theo, but but it just means we've got more to go out next week, doesn't it? that was former lbc political editor theo usherwood. thank you very, very much. up next, after a police officer was filmed kicking and stamping on a suspect's head at manchester airport. do you want a police force or a police service? it's a big debate. this. it's raging onune a big debate. this. it's raging online and we're going to do it right here in the studio next. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news >> hello again and welcome along to the latest forecast from the met office for gb news. gloomy skies overnight and into the start of thursday. for many of us outbreaks of rain. but it will turn brighter later on now.

we started wednesday with a ridge of high pressure. didn't last long. weather fronts are now moving in from the west and they are thickening up the cloud in many parts of the uk and bringing extensive low cloud to western parts and southern parts of the country. with hill fog , of the country. with hill fog, coastal mist and areas of rain and drizzle. nevertheless, with the largely cloudy skies overnight, it is going to remain mild in some places. rather muqqy mild in some places. rather muggy 15 or 16 celsius first thing, but if you're in the south and southwest, expect a gloomy start to thursday. a lot of low cloud covering the hills, bringing some mist and fog to coastal parts as well, and some more persistent and heavier bursts of rain into south cornwall and south devon through the morning . wales cloudy and the morning. wales cloudy and damp, the worst of the drizzle and low cloud over hills. likewise for northwest england, but for scotland and northern ireland something a little brighter. first thing, certainly for eastern scotland. some sunny spells coming through largely dry here, showers pushing into

western scotland and through the morning we're going to see things cheer up. across the northern two thirds of the uk, the cloud will lift. there will be some cloud breaks, although there will still be some showers arriving across western scotland , arriving across western scotland, northern ireland into northern england mostly dry for wales by the afternoon, as well as the midlands, but for the south and southeast outbreaks of rain, heavy at times and as a result significantly cooler compared with wednesday. that rains out of the way by friday morning, and then for most, it's a much brighter start to the day. sunny spells but further showers are likely in places especially, although not exclusively, across scotland, northern ireland, west wales and western england . wales and western england. saturday more widespread and heavier downpours for a time interspersed by sunny spells. sunshine on sunday looks like things are heating up . things are heating up. >> boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb

>> it's 10 pm. on patrick christys tonight . all . it's the christys tonight. all. it's the clip everyone's talking about . clip everyone's talking about. armed police get stuck right in at manchester airport . do we at manchester airport. do we think it was right or wrong? and referendum? >> referendum? >> referendum? >> the referendum. >> the referendum. >> why don't we have a referendum? >> should britain have a referendum now on illegal and legal immigration? >> plus, what's it really like being a gp? >> i'm doctor osman and i switched from hospital to community practice recently. here are five things that surprised me. >> i'll tell you what surprised me. doctor. gps are going to war on patients. they're threatening all kinds of things that could damage your health unless they get more pay and a british army officer stamped in broad daylight outside his barracks. what really went on. >> and we don't just need to

change the sicknote. we need to change the sicknote. we need to change the sicknote culture. >> the nominations for tory leadership candidates are officially open now. priti patel's ally greg smith mp is live in this very studio. and on my panel tonight is former cabinet minister michelle donelan director of the popular conservatives, mark littlewood and author rebecca reid. oh, yes. and i need you to tell me what happens next here. please the say the boat's there. there we go. get ready. britain. here we go. get ready. britain. here we go. do you want a police force or a police service? next . police service? next. >> just after 10:00. the latest from the gb newsroom. and kent police are saying the stabbing of a british army officer near

his barracks in gillingham is not being treated as terrorism related terrorism related. however, they are being supported by counter—terror specialists. detectives are continuing their investigations after witnesses reported hearing screams for help just before 6:00 yesterday evening near brompton barracks , locals rushed brompton barracks, locals rushed to help the uniformed officer , to help the uniformed officer, who'd been stabbed multiple times just as the attacker , who times just as the attacker, who was wearing a mask, fled the scene on a moped . a suspect was scene on a moped. a suspect was arrested on suspicion of attempted murder about 20 minutes later after being pursued by members of the public, police recovered knives at the scene. the victim, aged in his 40s, was airlifted to hospital with serious injuries. he's in a stable condition. meanwhile, a police officer who was filmed kicking the head of a man lying on the ground at manchester airport has been removed from operational duties. the male officer is seen holding a taser over the man who's lying face down before striking him

twice. greater manchester police has said firearms officers had been subject to a violent assault, where they were punched to the ground, but it acknowledges the concerns of the conduct within the video. two men were arrested on suspicion of assault, assault of an emergency worker , affray and emergency worker, affray and obstructing the police, while two other men were also arrested on suspicion of affray and assault of an emergency worker. police have confirmed to us. three officers, though, were taken to hospital for treatment. one female officer suffered a broken nose . in the house of broken nose. in the house of commons today , sir keir starmer commons today, sir keir starmer accused the previous government of losing control of britain's borders as he took part in his first pmqs as prime minister. reform uk's rupert lowe quizzed the prime minister on labour's migration plans, claiming that failure to control the borders had damaged britain's communities. the prime minister conceded that small boat crossings in the channel are a serious issue, but he laid the blame on the tories and

nominations open this evening to succeed rishi sunak as leader of the conservative party. shadow home secretary james cleverly announced last night that he's running to take the party's top job. in a video emphasising his credentials, the former foreign and home secretary said the tories need to re—establish its reputation as a party that helps to grow the economy and achieve people's aspirations. he's the first to announce a leadership bid and any challenges need to get in quickly before nominations close on monday. >> oh, i think they should go bankrupt. that would be rather lovely and very few decent people in the tory party. and i certainly don't want liz truss orjohnson back again. or johnson back again. >> orjohnson back again. >> well, they should be looking to appeal to their core voters and the policies that they present. taxation for one issue, a main issue, a reason why, a reason why i failed to vote for them this time. >> there are no statesmen anymore. i don't consider,

starmer to be a statesman or statesman material . statesman material. >> there are two state bentleys used by his majesty the king are to be converted to run on biofuel over the next year, amid a boost in profits from the crown estate. there are also plans to switch the monarchy's entire fleet of official cars to run on electric. while solar panels have been introduced at windsor castle, it comes as the estate's profits hit £1.1 billion, all of which goes to the treasury. it means the sovereign grant, which funds the monarchy, will increase from 86 million to 132 million next yean million to 132 million next year. those funds being used to complete the final stages of renovations to buckingham palace . renovations to buckingham palace. those are the latest gb news headunes those are the latest gb news headlines for now , i'm polly headlines for now, i'm polly middlehurst. i'm back in an houn middlehurst. i'm back in an hour. see you then for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts .

slash alerts. >> we have to ask ourselves whether we want a police force or a police service today. this clip of armed police dealing with a violent incident at manchester airport has massively divided opinion. warning now , divided opinion. warning now, some viewers may find this video distressing . or move up, move up , distressing. or move up, move up, move up, move up move . move up, move up move. >> move up, move up move. >> stop kicking people you know . >> stop kicking people you know. stop you don't. you don't. camera y sycamore gap . oh bupa . camera y sycamore gap. oh bupa. shut up i stop this i move up! shut up! stop this! move up! whoa! move, move move up, move up whoa! move, move move up, move up ! up! >> booba! booba! booba stop !

aukus >> look up ! >> look up! >> look up! >> boy! boy should have moved back. >> okay, so here's the context. a statement from greater manchester police says this. assistant chief constable wasim chaudhry has issued this statement. we know that a film of an incident at manchester airport that is circulating widely shows an event that is truly shocking and that people are rightly extremely concerned about the use of such force in an arrest is an unusual occurrence, and one that we understand creates alarm in advance of what is shown in the footage available. we were called to reports of an assault at terminal two, manchester airport, at 8:25 pm. on tuesday, the 23rd of july. the alleged suspect was seen on cctv at a ticket machine in the car park, and officers attended the location to arrest him. during our response, three officers were assaulted, one female officer suffered a broken nose

and the other officers were forced to the ground and suffered injuries which required hospital treatment . a male hospital treatment. a male officer has been removed from operational duties and we are making a voluntary referral of our policing response to the independent office for police conduct. two men have been arrested on suspicion of assault, assault of an emergency worker, affray and obstructing police. two other men have also been arrested on suspicion of affray and assault of an emergency worker. now we will have to wait for the full investigation but given the context of this being in an airport, a member of our armed forces being stabbed earlier in the day, by the way, as well , the day, by the way, as well, and a female officer's nose allegedly being broken and the potential risk of an officer losing his weapon, having that weapon taken off him and used against him or others . some against him or others. some might think that action is justified. others, of course, will not. but should we compare that to the type of policing we

saw during the leeds riots last week, where they just ran away? >> well, this is going. amy, chelsea say reform look, look, look, the police are just looking. >> glass. look at them running . >> glass. look at them running. >> glass. look at them running. >> now, if we saw that in leeds and that that is considered to be a police service. and if what we saw in manchester is what we would consider to be a police force, i do suspect that many people might generally prefer the approach of a police force. but let's get the thoughts of my panel this evening. i've got former cabinet minister michelle donelan, director of the popular conservatives mark littlewood, and we've also got author and journalist bakari mark. i'll start with you on this. do you think that we should have a police force more than a police service ? service? >> yes. the purpose of the police is as necessary and proportionately to use force or the threat of force to bring

criminals to heel. now, i mean, i don't want to go into the details of the clip that we've seen. i don't know all the circumstances around it. and there aren't you shouldn't ever see a police officer sort of dishing out a beating for reasons of vengeance or, you know , because they've lost their know, because they've lost their mind. but we do need force . use mind. but we do need force. use sometimes lethal force, by the way. i mean, what i would not want to see are top police officers doing is replicating the us secret service, where the former president was nearly murdered. and the explanation was, oh, well, you know, health and safety, governor, we can't go and safety, governor, we can't 9° up and safety, governor, we can't go up onto the roof. it's sloping a bit. even if it wasn't sloping, it's a bit hot up there . sloping, it's a bit hot up there. now, sometimes you need to take an instantaneous decision under pressure. the us secret service has failed to do that. if you were to look back to the gibraltar killings of three ira terrorists in the 1980s, went all the way through court and everything, but they had to take an instant decision. and i would hate our police officers to think, oh, i better not do anything in case i get into trouble. that's not to justify

disproportionate force , but the disproportionate force, but the police have to be about force being a resort that they can utilise. yeah. >> if the police feel as though they're in a situation where they're in a situation where they are being attacked and they are, you know, in a situation where it's particularly volatile and things like that , i think and things like that, i think that the public would expect them to take whatever action it takes to nullify that threat. >> well, the key primary function of the police is public safety, isn't it? so they're going to have to use any tool that they've got available to ensure that. at that said, i don't condone police brutality, but it's very hard to comment on this clip because it's obviously a high stakes environment. it's an airport. these could be suspected terrorists. they could be armed. they could be, you know, worse, they could have explosives. anything of that nature. we know that three police officers are now getting medical attention. so it's serious. they've obviously tried a lot before it's escalated, but police brutality at the end of the day can lead to a police state. so we do have to have limits. but if we do compare it to what happened last week in

leeds, where the police were facing lots of criticism for not acting in a responsive manner, not getting a grip of the situation. i think the two of them compared show you that actually you need balance, you need proportionality and you need proportionality and you need a police force that's working effectively for the general public. >> well, obviously , rebecca, the >> well, obviously, rebecca, the overarching question is do we want a police force or a police service? i do seem to remember you actually, do you just want to defund the police, don't you? >> i do want to defund the police. but whenever i say that, it gets very, very hot tempered very, very quickly because that doesn't mean no police of any, any matter. it means no police in the way that we currently have it. now. i think the main problem with the police in this country is that the average wage they get paid is about £14 an houn they get paid is about £14 an hour. there's very, very little training on the job and there's also very little further development. they're a massively overrepresented , overrepresented overrepresented, overrepresented amount of domestic abusers in the police . and also it's a very the police. and also it's a very high stress job with very little support, particularly for emotional health. so you often end up with people who are coming from an armed forces background or other backgrounds where they've been really, really traumatised, being given a lot of responsibility for very

little money, with very little support and then expecting them to be able to make really difficult snap snap decisions. you cannot be surprised that those people often end up making the wrong decision. >> okay. all right. i do wonder, though , mark, if we're in a though, mark, if we're in a situation at the moment where people feel as though the police are a bit of a joke or people feel as though they can attack police officers and they're actually we should fear it . and actually we should fear it. and whilst, again, you know, we don't want to go because there will be an investigation, a proper investigation into everything happened at manchester airport . what i will manchester airport. what i will say is though, when you see policing on the continent, to me, you don't. you don't mess around with police on holiday. you just don't mess around with them. and i think in this country you see people who really do mess around with the police. >> yeah, i think we've seen that an awful lot. and police officers backing off when they shouldn't have done. i can think of a lot of footage of protests in in london where you'd actually think, you know, on on first blush, looking at the videos that the police should have intervened more so i don't support. i'm not even sure rebecca supports defunding the

police. she just i do you support. >> that's what that means. that's what that means. >> well, i mean, you complained they weren't paid enough , so you they weren't paid enough, so you probably want to pay them more, which is i want to pay fewer of them more. >> and i would also want them to have different specialities. well, that's changing in lots of european countries. they have to devolve police to different problems open for reform. >> i do think we do need to fund a police force, though it would be clear. >> do we not also the defunding? >> do we not also the defunding? >> do we not also need to have michelle coming to you? a healthy fear of the police? >> i think we need respect for the police. so you need to respect the office and you need to recognise that they will take actions if you break or try to break the law. if you think they're a soft touch, it's fair game to any type of criminal. but i think they push their luck, aren't they? >> i, i think that sense of respect for the police has really changed. like i do remember as a child being told if you get lost, go and find a police person. and i would never tell my child that, given what i know about the enormous issues they have within the police with abuse, post several things that have come to light. i would

never suggest that my teenage daughter, not that she's a teenager now, would seek out a police person. i would say actively avoid them. i would say find a woman with a child. >> i think that's sort of tarnishing the entire police force with one brush. so that was a tragic, horrendous case that the whole nation thought was absolutely despicable. but to say that all police officers or generally are of that mindset or generally are of that mindset or approach, you know, my child is very young, but if he was in trouble when he was older, i would definitely say, go and find a well, he's a boy, so he'd probably be all right. >> that isn't what we're looking for. something a bit akin to what we expect of a teacher in a school. so you want to be kind of respected. although respect gone down. yeah, but you probably don't want to be terrified of your teacher, but you want to be. you want you respect them and you want to know that if you step out of line, you're going to face. but how are you? >> how are you that how criminal? >> it's the right approach. but how are you supposed to get that when people are 22 with no training and on very, very, very bad wages rather better? >> we need to structure it differently and fund it better. >> yeah. look, we'll have to wait and see what happens there again. you know, i will

emphasise the context of the clip that's divided everybody. you're at an airport. there's a bit of previous going on there allegedly, you know, it's a very, very intense atmosphere. the officer's got a gun, which clearly there is some kind of fear that if somebody else gets hold of that weapon, you know, we'll have to see. >> yeah, but he's tied on the floor as well. just represent that other side of it. there is a perfectly reasonable argument that that's not acceptable, that lots of people are also saying, because that is a tied person on the floor at that point, no threat. >> well, you're factually incorrect about that. but obviously that doesn't seem to matter. he is on the floor. it's not tied up though. was he bear arms by his back? okay. all right. coming up. i'll give you a first look at all tomorrow's newspaper front pages. hot off the press, and we'll be asking, is nigel farage right to call a referendum on immigration? but next nominations have just opened for the next tory leader. so who are the mps backing? one of them joins me. next is greg smith. he's live the studio. stay

welcome back to patrick christys. tonight now, in a moment, i'll give you a very first look at tomorrow's newspaper front pages. but i'm joined now by conservative mp greg smith to discuss all things tory leadership. it's actually a very big day for the tory leadership, because in the last few hours, nominations have opened. let's remind ourselves, shall we, of the front runners we've got former home secretary suella braverman, shadow secretary of state for work and pensions , mel stride shadow pensions, mel stride shadow minister for security tom tugendhat, former home secretary priti patel, former immigration

minister robert jenrick and shadow home secretary james cleverly . he's announced that he cleverly. he's announced that he is running as james cleverly has announced already that he will. former trade secretary and minister for women kemi badenoch, as well . they're all badenoch, as well. they're all expected to give it a go apparently. meanwhile, in a new yougov poll, almost half of the tory membership has said they would back a merger with reform uk. but a majority of the 2024 conservative voters believe nigel farage would do a very or fairly bad job as tory leader. so pick the bones out of that one. everybody anyway, greg, who are you backing? who should run? is it going to be pretty? >> oh, look, i'm backing priti patel. that's well known. that's out there. i think she is the candidate that can do the best job at actually bringing us together and uniting. there is no sugarcoating the fact that we've just had the most enormous kicking in the country. there's only 121 of us left in the house of commons. i'm lucky enough to be one of those, and the first thing we've got to do is we've actually got to pull ourselves together. the number of people who said to me on the doorsteps,

look, you like you're fighting like ferrets in a sack? yeah, we're fed up with the division. we're fed up of everyone fighting each other. >> the first thing we've got to do is unite. >> and i think pretty has that ability to bring the whole party together again, to be that uniting figure, experience in opposition . in the past, when opposition. in the past, when she was working with william hague after the 1997 crushing defeat , serious experience in defeat, serious experience in the big offices of state, not least as home secretary and someone who over the last few years has really kept her head down and got on with spreading the conservative message a legitimate conservative who can bnng legitimate conservative who can bring the whole party together. >> one of the big issues, though, facing whoever the next tory leader is, is that they will obviously hope to become prime minister. and if they do become prime minister, then they'll have to work with the civil service again. priti patel apparently didn't get on that well with them, did she? >> look, there was there was the one incident back when she was home secretary and actually i think the country was behind her. she's she's a tough boss who was accused of bullying, wasn't she? she's a tough boss. she wants to get stuff done. she

has the nation's interests absolutely at heart. she had a serious job for the nation's policing, for introducing a points based immigration system, for doing the enormous responsibility of work around counter—terror and things like that that come with being home secretary. and she wanted a good job done. and i don't think anyone's going to criticise her for being a tough boss and wanting results. and delivery. >> let's have a look at a couple of people that she's up against potentially. so i believe that when the front pages land with us here on this show, in a few minutes time, we're going to see tom tugendhat, in a in amongst it, saying that he's going to run to be the tory leader and he's prepared to leave the echr will that not be an important, you know, dividing line for people here? look, it's a debate. >> i'm not going to criticise any of my colleagues that are running for the conservative party leadership. actually, i want this to be a positive debate about who can pull us together, who can have the best platform going forwards on policy that will re excite the nafion policy that will re excite the nation about the conservative party at the next general election, as well as actually sorting out some of the nuts and

bolts of our party, the campaigning machine, the way we select candidates, maybe the way that we do look at the party chairmanship going forward as a whole party that properly engages and enthuses our members in the country. and that's what we've really got to be focused on. but yes, of course, policy issues will matter. of course, things like the echr alive in people's minds at the moment, but this is actually a more fundamental question for the whole membership of the conservative party mps included. we've lost the right to be heard , we've lost the right to be heard, and we've got to win that right to be heard back before we can get into debates over the echr or whatever it might be. >> okay. all right. so when it comes to priti as well, you know, we've seen today that labour are now calling it irregular immigration, not illegal immigration or even changing the language on stuff like that. so, so priti patel would have to try to, to to, sort that out wouldn't she. well, is that going to be a key part of her? >> look, we've always we've

always known. right that labour are soft on immigration. you know, it doesn't take a genius to work that out and to suddenly start getting this change of narratives instead of to illegal irregular or whatever they're going to change it to next, is just what we expect from labour. and part of our job as and part of ourjob as a responsible, professional opposition right now is to call that out and to actually ensure the nation's priorities are being met by this new government. we've got little chance of labour delivering on immigration, be it illegal immigration, be it illegal immigration or capping legal migration numbers. but priti patel is the tough cookie that can actually get that done. >> is there a risk now that they all just pick lumps out of each other? so what we end up seeing at the tory party conference instead of a beauty pageant, is everyone a circle circular firing squad of conservatives all pointing at each other, going, well, when you were a home secretary, you did this or you know you didn't do that or you know you didn't do that or you didn't do. there is a real risk there, isn't there? i mean, is there is you need to get this wrapped up asap. don't you? >> i think we do. >> i think we do. >> but actually we've got to have that period of reflection.

we've got to have that internal monologue that accepts what's just happened to us at the ballot box just a few weeks ago, and we've got to accept that before we can actually move on to choosing a leader and to re—earning the right to be heard again, do you not think there's again, do you not think there's a chance that if the tories go for a wet, that that's just game over? >> and you look at the other thing here, you know, a majority of 2024 tory voters believe that nigel farage, well, they say would do a very or fairly bad job as tory leader. but if you also look at some of the other stats that are it's bizarre this a lot of tory voters actually want him to be the next tory party leader. well, he is he is he is more popular, you know, would he consider a merger with nigel? she's ruled it out. but i know that she was previously quite close with nigel. no, the merger with reform is off the table as far as we're concerned, because reform just took millions of votes off the conservative party and have directly caused through their campaign. >> you know, all credit to them for winning 4 million votes, but directly caused the size of the

labour majority that we now see in the house of commons. we can't go down a path of suddenly merging. >> what we've got to do for tory voters, apparently do do want a merger. i mean tory members. sorry, i mean, it might be quite a useful tactic for the members to tell them that you would be open to a merger. >> so we've got to have a debate with the membership. we've got not knock chunks out of each other, as you suggested, but actually have a proper debate about the future of the conservative party. i want a leader who is a full on legitimate, low tax , small legitimate, low tax, small state, freedom loving, strong national, defence conservative. i think priti patel is that figure. and then we've got to set out a policy platform as conservatives that can excite the nation to vote for us whenever that next election comes, just quickly. >> and finally, greg, so the nominations, i think, close on monday. yeah. when are we expecting priti patel to be be on that ballot? do we think we've got the nomination papers? >> we were only issued with them today and i have every

confidence they'll be in by the deadline. on monday. >> lovely stuff greg, thank you very much. great to have you on the show. thank you very, very much. that is conservative mp there, greg smith coming up. do you want a referendum on immigration. that's what nigel farage is proposing. my panel returns to debate that also on the way doorbell footage. this doorbell footage captures the moment a british army officer was stabbed in broad daylight outside a barracks. i'll show you the full clip and i'll give you the full clip and i'll give you the full clip and i'll give you the latest on that. but next. yes, i've got the very first of tomorrow's newspaper front pages and find out what gps are up how. now. spoiler it's not making you better. stay

welcome back to patrick christys tonight. and i have got the very first of tomorrow's newspaper front pages. now, let's do it . front pages. now, let's do it. so we start with the metro horror crash arrest police hold driver over six deaths. tragedy

yeah. this is, of course, a really horrific car crash that basically wiped out an entire family. unfortunately. let's go to the i. corbyn trying to form rebel alliance to fight starmer. we touched on this a bit earlier. he's really having multiple meetings now with four other independents and presumably these labour rebels as well. so there we go. let's go to the daily mail. is this the end for our copper coins? the treasury orders? no new coins for the first time ever, and it expects to mint no extra one pea and two peas in the coming years. well well, it's interesting really, isn't it? we had that massive tech outage and it kind of highlighted the importance of occasionally maybe carrying a bit of cash on you, just in case the card machine goes down. but apparently we're not going to get much more of it. let's go to the guardian, revealed rich western countries lead global gas and oil expansion right and protesters netanyahu addresses congress in america and it has kicked right off in america. it's fair to say. but we're going to focus in a bit on this. what's on the front of the telegraph, two—gun hart. i'm ready to leave the

echr. so the nominations for the conservative leadership race opened today. tom hogan, who cannot even straight out the traps. and he's saying that he's going to run and that he is willing to leave the echr. and it brings me perfectly on to my wonderful panel and onto this particular story that we're going to be covering with them as well, because it merges well, because nigel farage has called for a referendum on membership of the echr yesterday. he's actually got one step further today, now demanding a referendum on immigration in general. he said that the majority of mps are out of step with public, with the public when it comes to illegal migration and that the issue should be put to the people. michel, look, i will start with you on this. so, do you think that we should have a referendum on illegal migration or legal migration? no. >> absolutely not. i think it allows the government to get off scot free. and i think nigel's actually being too soft on the labour party on this one, because by devolving it to a referendum, first of all, it's going to take a huge amount of

time, a year to two years, when this is the top issue. that was you know, shared by voter after voter, doorstep after doorstep. it's not just important to our economy, it's an issue of national security too. we haven't got that time to just wait around and keep accepting people in the meantime. and this is a government that's elected to actually fix this problem. they should be getting on with the job, not just farming it off to a referendum. >> okay, i will just stick with you because the other aspect of this is tom moore sukh and heart throwing his hat into the ring massively. now we just had confirmation moments ago that priti patel is definitely going to do that as well. james cleverly is who's your money on? >> so my money is on kemi. i think that she is the candidate thatis think that she is the candidate that is what she's been involved and had many roles at the top level. she's still got the fresh face and the appeal and she can unite and bring the party together, but is also forceful and that's something that we needif and that's something that we need if we're going to tackle reform, if we're going to tackle the many challenges that we've had as a party over the few years. so i think she is the candidate to watch. >> all right. okay, good stuff,

mark, this idea of having a referendum on immigration, some people would say, well, we do we do vote for that every few years. yeah. >> look, i'm not quite sure what farage means by the referendum on immigration. i mean, that is a practical policy that should be in a party's manifesto that they then attempt to execute. i am more sympathetic about the echr referendum. that is a constitutional matter about whether we are signatories or not. and i can imagine a referendum becoming necessary if the conservatives don't change tack here pretty fast. interesting that greg smith , interesting that greg smith, who's obviously a supporter of priti patel, seemed open to it . priti patel, seemed open to it. tom tugendhat, usually associated with the one nation side of the conservative party. i haven't read the fine print, seems open to it. i think robert jenrick will probably be in favour of pulling out of echr. so if you were to have the conservative party, the official opposition, in favour of withdrawal and the labour government in favour of staying in, then it seems to me you don't need a referendum. the

next general election will sort it out. we had a referendum. i was just asking michel before we came on air. she was on the remain side. i was on the leave side. we had a referendum because the topic of eu membership actually divided within parties as well. and the conservative party was especially divided on it. but i think this could be that the tories come out for leaving echr labour want us to stay in. it could be a big dividing line for the next few years. >> well, quite possibly. and rebecca, i'll just say so. so apparently, according to this, mr tugendhat's position on the echr has changed since 2022, when he dismissed calls to leave the convention. however, he apparently has become increasingly concerned about it overreaching into our lives, he says. and actually, this could be a key dividing point because keir starmer's house building plans. supposedly there was an article today about how people are now saying that could contravene our human rights to have housing developments in our areas. if he ever decides that he might actually dare to want to deport anyone, then he might find himself coming up against the echr in that as well. there might actually be a situation where leaders of this country realise that if they want to do

anything , they might have to try anything, they might have to try and get around the echr. >> i think it's so telling that tom tugendhat, one of those names that's floated around for years and years and years and he's never really done anything that people can really pin on, and then suddenly, weirdly, since 2022, he's had a huge epiphany and now he really cares about this. that is just boring. seeing which way the wind is blowing. similarly, nigel farage like, honestly, just go and do yourjob, go and serve your constituents. go and sit in your office and listen to people and do your actual job. this is but but he is this. we need a referendum. he just lives for a campaign. and i genuinely look at that and i'm like, what is hurting inside you? that you need something to be screaming about all the time. you have got the thing you finally wanted eight times it took you to be an mp, be an mp, stop going to america. stop shouting up, wanting things, party, get on with your job. >> some policy suggestions. >> some policy suggestions. >> it's not a policy suggestion, it's. it's how to make himself the main character again. it is attention seeking. he doesn't actually care about any of the stuff. he is just shouting about it. >> well , look, it. >> well, look, i'm it.— >> well, look, i'm no it. >> well, look, i'm no fan it. >> well , look, i'm no fan of farage. >> you wiped out, you know, many

seats, including my own. but at the end of the day, he's talking about the top issue that that people care about, which were also working on. >> but the idea that you want to suddenly, like brexit was so bad for this country, morale and the way that we talk to each other and the way that politics was handled got so toxic, as if we need that again. >> we just had rebecca, that the opposition party shouldn't really say anything and should just wish for the labour party. >> i think there's a real they can and should sit quietly in their office responding to constituencies. well, i do think two opposition parties, two opposed.i two opposition parties, two opposed. i do think put forward ideas and hold the government to account. >> that's how it works. this is a it's not that at all. >> it's that i, i think that this is this should be about pubuc this is this should be about public service and getting on and doing your job and serving and doing yourjob and serving the people who nominated you, rather than childish point scoring, which is what got your lot kicked out. >> well, fine, i just i'm not convinced, though. i'm not convinced, though. i'm not convinced, though, that when it comes to certain things like like when we're going to be clearing the prison spaces and we're going to be releasing quite a few potentially foreign violent offenders because there are about 12,000 foreign offenders in our prisons, we

might want to try to deport some of those. we might find difficulties there. we might want to try to sort out what's going on in the channel that might require us to be a bit nimble legally, with what we're doing, etc. i think that i think that leaving the echr is going to be a big thing going forward, where are you on it? >> so i think that since the election , everything has election, everything has changed. so in our manifesto we said do it as a last resort, so try everything else first, including miranda etc. one by one, the labour government is removing all those other things, so it is the only resort left . so it is the only resort left. so i actually think you would leave because now leave because all the other options have been removed. and the reality is that this is not a government with a plan to actually tackle immigration. >> well, i mean, it does. you can find it on their website. it's very clearly written out now, not illegal immigration. >> so it's not even illegal immigration anymore. and they've also cancelled bibby stockholm this week because they say magically , somehow the backlog magically, somehow the backlog is going to be gone by january. >> the boat that had listeria in the water, you thought that was so great, we should pay for it again. >> so by saying that somehow the backlog is going to be gone by january, that to me implies all

they're going to do is say everybody can stay to get rid of the backlog. >> i mean, the key issue is this do you actually think we can solve the immigration problem? just by sort of sharper, better execution of policy, a beefed up border force? that seems to be what? >> that's not all they're doing. >> that's not all they're doing. >> that's not all they're doing. >> that's not all they're proposing. they're going to work with europe. they're going to have digital fingerprinting. they're going to have so many other i understand that anybody who disagrees with you is guilty of childish point scoring. >> that's not that's reasonable, really. unlike you, reasonable for people to suggest that if we don't change the legal and constitutional framework, then it's going to be very difficult to have effective immigration policy. you're entitled to disagree with that. but that, i think, is going to be a big dividing line in party politics. i just don't think you need a referendum to decide that, because that is going to delay things. >> again, we won't tackle the issue. >> all right, guys, look, i, i'm unfortunately because i was quite enjoying all of that actually i'm going to have to draw a line under it. but this is a very serious topic, a british soldier is in a serious but stable condition after he fell victim to a horrific attack near an army barracks in kent.

witnesses reported hearing a huge scream just before 6:00 yesterday evening in gillingham. locals rushed to help the soldier and they saw the attacker stab him repeatedly and then flee on a moped. a suspect was arrested on suspicion of attempted murder. about 20 minutes later, the police are yet to rule out terrorism as a possible motive, and i just want to stress that the police are yet to rule out terrorism as a possible motive. but they do say that the suspect may have mental health problems. gb news has obtained doorbell camera footage that doesn't show the attack, but you can quite clearly hear the terrified screams now. again, a warning to our viewers. you might find listening and viewing this distressing . yeah, that's a heck of a lot

more to come from that story, don't you? we will endeavour to bnng don't you? we will endeavour to bring you the very latest on that as and when we get it coming up, equestrian legend charlotte dujardin was filmed whipping her horse 24 times. she's now been axed from team gb. but is the punishment too harsh? we're going to be talking about that when we crown tonight's greatest britain and union jack, but next this is a big one. this gp's are threatening to see fewer patients under plans to protest over pay. aren't they now just showing a complete disdain for the british public? have they gone to war with you? let me know your views. i'll be back as well. with that and more of tomorrow's front pages. very, shortly. stay

hello. welcome back. it's time for the rest of your front pages for the rest of your front pages for tomorrow. let's do it . so, for tomorrow. let's do it. so, the times army officer fights for life after knife attack outside barracks. we touched on that a few moments ago. labour plans. thousands of offshore

wind turbines. so apparently ed miliband is going to announce a deal with the crown estate at time for state to quote, to own and build things again, which would be terrifying to hear those words coming out of ed miliband's mouth. but there we go. this is the start of great british energy, everybody. labour's publicly owned energy company. and they're going to form a partnership with the crown estate, which owns swathes of britain's seabed . so all of britain's seabed. so all right, we'll probably be talking about that quite a lot more on tomorrow's show i imagine. but let's go to the daily express senior army officer stabbed outside barracks. yet we've again we've spoken about that the mirror have also gone with that. so man 24, held over attack soldiering uniform is repeatedly knifed in a broad daylight stabbing frenzy . it's daylight stabbing frenzy. it's and then big letters here. appalling. now police have arrested a knife suspect. you know there's some confusion over whether or not they have ruled out potential terrorism, whether or not they're ruled in mental health issues. and we also , i health issues. and we also, i think, don't we await to find out a little bit more detail

about who they may have arrested when it comes to this attack. that could be quite an interesting development. but, yes, before all of that, i would just like to also talk about a story that i think affects us all, because it does affects all our health and it affects our gp appointments. i personally thought this was an absolutely shocking story when i read it. gp's are threatening to cut the number of appointments they offer each day under plans to protest over pay . so you heard protest over pay. so you heard that right? should the vote go through this national quotes collective action will be introduced from next week. now it could see appointments cut by a third, but supposedly, according to some reports as well, things like refusing to refer you to a specialist. i mean , it's bizarre. i mean, mean, it's bizarre. i mean, mark, i'm going to i'm going to throw it to you first on this. for me, the idea that a gp who is, i think, pretty well paid , is, i think, pretty well paid, could refuse to see you or refer you to support, i think is borderline criminal. >> yeah, i'm pretty shocked by this and i think that gps and those who work in the national

health service can't have their cake and eat it here. broadly speaking, when we're looking at the nhs or any other sector of the nhs or any other sector of the economy, i think pay should be attached to your productivity, that, you know, that's a rough rule of thumb. you can't perfectly measure everybody's productivity . but everybody's productivity. but pubuc everybody's productivity. but public sector productivity has fallen in recent years. they are producing less per hour than they used to. yet their pay demands are way above inflation. how can that be so? and my starting point in dealing with the doctors, the nurses, everybody else would to be say, look, if you can show that productivity is going up , that's productivity is going up, that's great, your pay will go up. but if you want to cut your number of appointments, your pay will go down. >> i just feel like this. this will kill people. >> well, look, i don't agree with the striking or withdrawing care, and i think it is the wrong decision. but you can understand why they're doing it understand why they're doing it under a labour government because they're pushing at an open door. they know that labour is in bed with the unions. they're probably going to give in on these. well, they're not doing this under your government. so we didn't we stood clear and firm on this topic because we've got to give.

>> but they were doing rises, but they were doing it to you guys to not a gp or gp's weren't doing this, but you had you had doctor strikes through the whole thing. >> we did not see gp's refusing to refer people to. but you did have, we didn't see them cutting down the amount of appointments per day. but i think the broader issue is that we need nhs reform , issue is that we need nhs reform, that we've got an nhs system that we've got an nhs system that was set up for post—war britain. we now have a bigger population, we have more expensive pharmaceuticals, we have technology, we have , per have technology, we have, per head usage is higher, expectations are higher . we expectations are higher. we can't just carry on burying our headin can't just carry on burying our head in the sands. we need to inject a lot more technology and ai into our nhs to actually support our doctors. all right. >> i got rebecca. look, you know, everyone's entitled to their view on it. i'll just be really honest with you. i think people might be more willing to support the gps if they already felt like they were getting a good service from the nhs. unfortunately, i know quite a lot of people who have died on the nhs or are now dying as a result of poor care on the nhs. and i just wonder with this, if you , if you get an appointment

you, if you get an appointment and a gp decides not to attend it and they happen to be on a salary of around £100,000 a yean salary of around £100,000 a year, it's a lot of them aren't, which a lot of them are, but a lot of them also aren't fine. >> and also this is but is that is that okay? >> you know, is that not the job to save lives? >> but the argument here, the predominant thing they're worried about is funding for practices. so it's not just that they're looking for more money in their actual paycheque is that they want more funding for their practices. so they want to be able to have more staff there, maybe employ some nicer receptionists, and also have more the equipment that you need and to keep things safe and clean in the eye and you say sorry. yeah. striking is really i mean, in my experience, whenever i've been in hospital, whenever i've been in hospital, when there have been strikes, if you are very elderly or you have a very small child, they will always prioritise that. so it's actually people like us who would be with early signs of cancer. >> cancen >> that's for sure. >> that's for sure. >> and i and no, nobody thinks this is nice and fun, but striking is an important tool for negotiation and if the only way, the only way to go on strike as a doctor is to do less work or do no work, they could refuse to work at all. and

they're not going to do that. reducing it is the softest way to strike possible. >> and again, i think very much to michelle's point, this sort of stuff doesn't happen in the rest of western europe. the nhs appears to be permanently in crisis nearly always. there's some industrial dispute going on. a german friend of mine said he was looking back at the last time there was a winter crisis in the german healthcare system, the last time a winter crisis and the german healthcare system was reported was 1945. and you can probably imagine why the german healthcare system was in crisis in 1945. we've clearly got something structurally wrong. the rest of the world would think this is insane, and i with michelle, i think we've got to be very i don't think anybody is changing the system, but no one disagrees with you. >> no one is saying the nhs doesn't need reform. everyone agrees the nhs needs reform. that's a basic point. >> saying you agree with it and actually doing it are two different things. >> i think there's a moral point right at the heart of this, which is which is whether or not fundamentally it's for okay people who are medical professionals to withdraw care for people. but we will be talking about this in more detail tomorrow, actually, because it is a big topic, now,

though , this is a dramatic though, this is a dramatic moment, a dramatic get ready. it's dramatic. okay. a giant humpback whale caused chaos off the coast of new hampshire in america . oh it's gone. yeah, america. oh it's gone. yeah, there he is . humpback whale . you there he is. humpback whale. you know, plonks himself. right on the back of that fishing boat. so the two fishermen aboard the vessel had a lucky escape with 16 year old colin yeager and his brother wyatt pulling the man to safety . so. but yeah. so the way safety. so. but yeah. so the way they they go out the boat, the boats capsize. and the lads you see in the video there, they've all got to get in and pull them to safety. all in all, everyone had a whale of a time. to safety. all in all, everyone had a whale of a time . a bit of had a whale of a time. a bit of me died then. all right, it's time to reveal today's greatest president, union jack. at all. right. greatest britain >> mark honouree for me. ryan reynolds, right. known to some as the owner of wrexham football club. but more important than that, he plays the character of deadpool in the new marvel

movie. that franchise has been on the bones of its backside for a while, but all of the leftie critics hate this new film and all of the fans love it. it's going to be brilliant, and i think ryan reynolds single handedly saved the greatest cinema franchise in our lifetime. >> i saw a one star review of this earlier today from dare i say it said leftie critics. and i just to be honest, say it said leftie critics. and ijust to be honest, i say it said leftie critics. and i just to be honest, i just assume maybe it's an awful film, but for all your fans are saying it's great. >> it's going to make a billion, possibly $2 billion. i'm seeing it on friday. i reckon ryan reynolds has saved this franchise. the last few marvel films have been poor. this in my view, is what cultural heritage should really be about. saving marvel movies. >> well, okay. all right, michelle, here's your greatest briton. >> so mine is sharon davis. so she's actually from my neck of the woods. and she's faced a lot of abuse online, like intense levels for speaking out against trans athletes, being able to compete trans women competing with biological women and today

we saw lisa nandy, the new secretary of for state culture, media and sport, or a job i did myself, who's basically given the green light for all sporting authorities and bodies to allow trans women to compete against and compete with biological women . now, i think that sharon women. now, i think that sharon is a hero for actually standing up again and saying, this isn't fair. this isn't a government on our side or standing up for equality, and yes, it once more . equality, and yes, it once more. >> okay. all right. rebecca, who's your greatest briton, please? >> mine is jess phillips mp, who said this week that it could take up to 20 years to directly address the violence against women and girls epidemic in this country. but she's really stepping up to it, and she's certainly not throwing any platitudes. she's willing to actually do the work. okay. >> lovely stuff. okay, three great choices. and today's winner is sharon davies, though of the greatest britain. right now, we're gonna have to be rapid with this very quick question to get in. >> just stop oil activists been banged up for a year. her mother thinks she's a hero. she's going to miss her brother's wedding. her brother's presumably called tarquin or sebastian. >> she got four years, not a year. yean >> right. okay. go on. >> right. okay. go on. >> so, mr coburn, who is sadiq

khan's new high carbon environment chief? as a councillor, he has racked up 40,000 air miles whilst telling his council constituents that they should be conscious of how they should be conscious of how they travel and eco hypocrites, and would say, yeah, and he's going to get £148,000 for this role. er plus loads of air miles. >> right. okay. >> right. okay. >> mine is charlotte dujardin who was hitting her horse. posh people have a weird thing that hitting horses is fine. it's not chic and it's not fine. yeah >> no fair. all right. okay. good choices again. meet coburn is today's winner of the union jack award. so michelle's doubled up on her debut on this show. so well done. thank you everybody i've got to go now. but i'll see you tomorrow at nine. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news >> hello again and welcome along to the latest forecast from the met office for gb news. gloomy skies overnight and into the start of thursday for many of us outbreaks of rain, but it will turn brighter later on now. we

started wednesday with a ridge of high pressure. didn't last long. weather fronts are now moving in from the west and they are thickening up the cloud in many parts of the uk and bringing extensive low cloud to western parts and southern parts of the country. with hill fog , of the country. with hill fog, coastal mist and areas of rain and drizzle. nevertheless, with the largely cloudy skies overnight, it is going to remain mild in some places. rather muqqy mild in some places. rather muggy 15 or 16 celsius first thing, but if you're in the south and southwest, expect a gloomy start to thursday. a lot of low cloud covering the hills, bringing some mist and fog to coastal parts as well, and some more persistent and heavier bursts of rain into south cornwall and south devon through the morning . wales cloudy and the morning. wales cloudy and damp, the worst of the drizzle and low cloud over hills. likewise for northwest england, but for scotland and northern ireland something a little brighter. first thing, certainly for eastern scotland. some sunny spells coming through largely dry here, showers pushing into

western scotland and through the morning we're going to see things cheer up. across the northern two thirds of the uk, the cloud will lift. there will be some cloud breaks, although there will still be some showers arriving across western scotland , arriving across western scotland, northern ireland into northern england. mostly dry for wales by the afternoon, as well as the midlands, but for the south and southeast outbreaks of rain, heavy at times and as a result significantly cooler compared with wednesday. that rains out of the way by friday morning, and then for most, it's a much

>> you're with gb news. it's 11:00. in a moment. headliners. but first, let's bring you the latest news headlines. and tom tugendhat has confirmed he's entering the race to become the next tory leader , insisting he next tory leader, insisting he could win the next general election . he's announced that he election. he's announced that he would be prepared to leave the european convention on human rights if it was necessary to restore control over the uk's borders, he said he's not just running to become leader of the tories, but running to become the next prime minister shadow home secretary james cleverly announced last night he's also running to take the party's top job. others are expected to join the race. nominations close on monday. a man has been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving following a car accident which left six people dead, including two children. shane roller and his partner shannon morgan , and

partner shannon morgan, and their daughters, aged