gb. news >> everyone told me i was wasting my time. the echr. no one's ever heard of it. no one cares. well now. tom tugendhat running to be tory leader, says he might consider leaving it. but do we actually believe anything anyone says anymore? it's been a big day in westminster. the launch of gb energy. is this going to be a new industrial revolution? is it going to give us incredible cheap energy for decades to come ? cheap energy for decades to come? or could the whole thing be a disastrous white elephant and joining me on talking pints, the only person to have appeared twice on this segment, a man who has just retired after 64 years in journalism, trevor cavanah, is back with his second talking pints but before all that, let's get the news with polly middlehurst . middlehurst. >> nigel. thank you. good evening. well, the top story

tonight is that the police watchdog says investigators will be examining hours of body worn video and cctv footage following an altercation, which resulted in a police officer being suspended from duty after a video showing a person being kicked at manchester airport aired widely online. greater manchester police says three of its officers were were seriously injured when they attended to reports of an assault in the airport. car park, which happened before the events in the widely aired video were circulated. they included a female officer suffering a broken nose, a solicitor representing two of the men involved says their family members of a greater manchester police officer . four men members of a greater manchester police officer. four men in members of a greater manchester police officer . four men in the police officer. four men in the end were arrested on suspicion of assault and affray, and the police watchdog has now launched its official investigation . a its official investigation. a man has been charged with attempted murder after the stabbing of a uniformed army officer in kent. 24 year old anthony esson has been remanded

in custody after appearing in court today. he was arrested near his home in rochester just near his home in rochesterjust 30 minutes after the violent attack . he's also been charged attack. he's also been charged with possession of an offensive weapon in a public place. he'll be back in court next month. it comes after lieutenant colonel mark teetan, who's in his 40s, was stabbed near brompton barracks in gillingham on tuesday evening. he remains in hospital in a serious but stable condition . as you've been condition. as you've been hearing, the former immigration minister, robert jenrick, will stand for the leadership of the conservative party, promising to win back voters who've switched to reform uk. he's the third tory to throw his hat into the ring afterjames tory to throw his hat into the ring after james cleverly and tom tugendhat. mr cleverly says he's best placed to unite the party after the election defeat. but tom tugendhat says the conservatives have lost trust of the public after failing to deliver lower taxes and lower immigration. >> you've seen what's just happenedin >> you've seen what's just happened in the recent election. we lost the trust of the british people because we failed to

deliver and i've got a track record of delivery, whether that's in the army on operations in iraq and afghanistan or whether that's in parliament standing up to those who would threaten us, those authoritarian dictators and that's got me sanctioned by countries like china and russia and iran. >> and of course, i've been delivering in government, you know, as the security minister, making sure that we are safe. and i can't talk about all the areas that i've been working on as security minister, for obvious reasons, but absolutely prioritising the interests and security of the british people is exactly what i've done. >> now, the prime minister says offshore wind will soon power 20 million british homes. as he launched today, the new state owned gb energy company. speaking during a visit to an engineering plant in the north—west of england, sir keir starmer said the firm's partnership with the crown estate would help turbocharge britain's transition to clean energy. >> now there is a massive prize within our reach and make no mistake, the race is on to get there. until now, i feel like

we've been sort of tying up our laces in the changing room. no more . i don't just want to be in more. i don't just want to be in the race for clean energy. i want to us win the race for clean energy. and why not? we have got the potential . we have have got the potential. we have got the ports. we have got the people. the skills. and now we've got a mission driven government. >> sir keir starmer those are the latest gb news headlines. for now i'm polly middlehurst i'm back in an hour. see you then. >> for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . forward slash alerts. >> well, i first started banging on about the echr back in 2020 when i was going out into the channel highlighting the small boats coming over, highlighting

the fact that just going back 15 years, we used to deport people who came here illegally, but we'd stopped doing it. and the increase activism of that court, as i saw it, was at the heart of the problem. and certainly the incorporation of the european convention on human rights into british law back in 1998. but of course, as ever, i was told that i was just sort of weirdly fringe and that nobody would listen . well, they're listening listen. well, they're listening now, and there is quite a full debate. big screaming headlines in the telegraph today. say what tom tugendhat would consider leaving the european court of human rights. now, he sat down earlier on today with jacob rees—mogg. let's see just a little clip of it , people. little clip of it, people. >> one of the issues that has been central to your campaign and the commentary on it is the question of the european convention on human rights. are you willing to withdraw from that convention or lead a conservative party campaigning to withdraw from it? >> i am willing to do it. of course i'm willing to do it. what i want to do is i want to

see the policies that i was talking about since 2013, implemented since 2013, i've been talking about derogating in time of war, something that i know we've discussed, and i wrote a paper. in fact, i wrote two papers about this for policy exchange way back then on the fog of law and clearing the fog of law. and we need to be absolutely clear that the purpose of these institutions is to serve the interests of the british people. you know, when our predecessors on the conservative benches passed these bills and signed these treaties in the 1950s, they were doing it to extend the prosperity and security of the british people. that's exactly why they did it. and that's what the purpose of these treaties is. now, if they continue to deliver that, fantastic. we should support them. if they to cease deliver that, we should either reform or derogate or possibly leave. >> we need to be. we're absolutely clear. that's what was said in an interview. absolutely clear. that's what was said in an interview . what? was said in an interview. what? to me, it's as clear as mud. i have to tell you. so we have two not running. we have jenrick running. we have cleverly running. we have cleverly running. that's three for starters. there could be many , starters. there could be many, many more. but do you actually

believe tugendhat when he says what he says? let me know what you think. farage @gbnews. com not sure i believe any of them , not sure i believe any of them, frankly. i'm joined in the studio by two men who were liberated by no longer being members of parliament, no longer being accountable to party whips. they can say what they like. so george howarth, former labour minister under blair's government, and sirjake berry, who of course was chairman of the conservative party. let's start with you, jake. we need to be absolutely clear and then it's, well, we can reform or we can derogate or we can leave. it isn't very clear, is it? >> well, i don't accept that. so first of all, if you believe in a sovereign immigration policy, you should believe in what i believe is that we should withdraw from the echr. i know this week you called for a referendum. i don't think we need a referendum. i think this is about political leadership. if it's right for the country, politicians should get on and do it. you cannot have a sovereign immigration policy unless the ultimate court is a sovereign court. what tom tugendhat is

talking about is that he believes that we will withdraw from the echr if everything else fails. my own personal view is you should have gone farther. but but it's a big, big step away from keir starmer, who came out almost in his first day in the job he did on the monday. you know, come hell, come high water, the echr is here to stay. thatis water, the echr is here to stay. that is wrong for britain and you will never get a grip on immigration or many of these other issues about national security without having the bravery to say we should withdraw . withdraw. >> was it much of that bravery in the last 14 years was there? >> well, look, i called years ago for us to leave the echr. i've consistently called for it about the same sort of time as you started calling it. i started calling for it. the conservative party should have doneit. done it. >> the reason i called for a referendum, i was trying to highlight that on issues like this. this parliament is a long way away from, as i see it, the centre ground of public opinion. yeah.i centre ground of public opinion. yeah. i mean, i really, really do. george howarth yes. i mean for keir starmer, you know, he

gave that speech. i mean, he really believes in the european court of human rights and the european convention. that's labour's position. but i just wonder, you know, as you well know, in the red wall and many other parts of the country, they see what's happening in the channel and they think not only is it expensive, but it's unfair, unfair on everybody else , unfair, unfair on everybody else, including, by the way, those that want to legally, yes, to the country, is this something that you think that starmer will be immovable on? >> i suspect so, i mean , his his >> i suspect so, i mean, his his whole background is as a human rights lawyer, before he became , rights lawyer, before he became, involved in, as a public prosecutor. so i doubt that he's likely to step back from that position, because i think it's very much built into his psyche. >> part of who he is almost, isn't it? >> yeah, yeah, having said that, i mean, i think it is interesting that what tom tugendhat said that he left

himself a hell of a lot of wriggle room there. i mean, what i think keir might be open to is discussions about how it may be made to work more effectively than it clearly is at the moment. and he doesn't really need to look out, though, does he ? look out, though, does he? >> he doesn't. but you say he does. but actually the interesting thing is labour may have a massive majority, but actually only 33.8% of the overall vote. so they can't just be cavalier. >> that's not why they don't need to worry about it. the reason they don't need to worry about it is what you need to get out of the echr for is to grip immigration. they clearly not going to do it. they've removed, you know, they've effectively announced an amnesty for up to 90,000 people who under the previous law that we passed, they were unable to claim asylum because they'd come into the country illegally. he's got rid of a rwanda policy, whether you think that was a gimmick or not, it was at least a big disincentive. and they've closed things like the bibby stockholm barge. they're taking away the plan to put people in army camps. all the things that were

disincentivizing people to come to this country. they've got rid of. it's a free for all. you can have an amnesty. we don't. if you let everyone stay. you don't really need to worry about the echr because they're not going to stop you letting everyone stay. >> whether the numbers jake berry can possibly be higher than they were under the last few years of rishi sunak, i don't know. well, 15% of people who've entered our country illegally have entered in the last three weeks, 15%. since when ? when? >> since keir starmer became prime minister. yeah. in fact, he hasn't even been prime minister. we've had three weeks. >> we've had a couple of calm weeks, i must ask. interesting decision, wasn't it? you know, the first division, the two child cap and its knock on impact on benefits . seven labour impact on benefits. seven labour mps oppose the government line. to be fair on a manifesto they've just been elected on. was it a bit over the top to suspend them for six months, or was it the right thing to do? >> i don't think it was, because it was a manifesto commitment and the, you know, the general belief and i think rightly so ,

belief and i think rightly so, is if it's a manifesto commitment and you've stood for election on that manifesto, then you're honour bound , to keep it. you're honour bound, to keep it. yeah having said that, i mean, i'm not going to start kicking people for , you know, exercising people for, you know, exercising their conscience, but i think they were wrong to do so. and keir was right to discipline them for doing what? >> so clearly there's going to be some discipline there. and when you look at the runners and riders, there are three so far for the tory leadership. who's the most honest of the three so far? >> well, i think i'm backing tom just to put my cards on the table. i got to know tom when we campaigned together to oppose bofis campaigned together to oppose boris johnson's crazy increase in national insurance, and he campaigned with me to oppose that against our own government. so all of these people who say, look, i'm a right winger, i'm, you know, i'm a sort of low tax tory. i judge people by what they do. and when tom and i were

campaigning against working people's taxes, going up as conservatives , none of the rest conservatives, none of the rest of them who were all fine individuals, none of the rest of them were with us. that's why i'm backing tom, because i think he is a low tax proper conservative. as you might almost say, nigel. and, there's nothing wrong with the rest of them. he's just the best. >> is he going to win? >> is he going to win? >> is he going to win? >> i don't know, but early yet i would not i'm not, i'm not, i'm not in parliament anymore. it's up to my colleagues. >> that's why. that's why it's actually better to have you on as an ex—mp. because you can both speak your mind very, very clearly. and you know, we're here as a channel. we want full on political debate and opinion. >> and i think i think he stands quite a good chance because i think he appeals across the party as a proper conservative. let's not forget the last election . we lost 60 seats to election. we lost 60 seats to the liberal democrats. we lost , the liberal democrats. we lost, you know, five, five to the reform party. could have been many more, almost was actually we lost 60 seats. the liberal democrats , if we want to rebuild democrats, if we want to rebuild as a political movement, as

conservatives , we need to have conservatives, we need to have a broad appeal and our appeal needs to not be defined by how we voted on brexit. it needs to be about what we will do for this country. i think he's the best person for that job. >> final point on this segment. back to the labour party for a moment. 1997 tony blair in the sunshine in downing street. things can only get better. i mean, it was a remarkable period, wasn't it, of there was a sense of optimism about who he was, about some of the people around him. we haven't got that this time, have we? >> well, different times, different people. sure you know, keir's pitch, which i think for the time was correct , was steady the time was correct, was steady as you go. let's get everything stabilised. let's get the economy moving again. tony was really a man of his times. it was, there was people were looking forward to change. he was the face of that change. and i was a huge supporter of tony.

and i'm not here to knock him , and i'm not here to knock him, but as i say, it was a different time. and in a way, it was an easier pitch then for him than it is for keir now. >> because the funny thing here is, on the one hand, it's stability, but on the other hand it's change and sort of which is it? >> well, if you want to be linguistic about it, you know, there is you could say that one thing means one thing, and the other thing means another. but, i think the message that he's got is, yep , we're going to got is, yep, we're going to change things, but we're not going to break the bank in doing it. and i think he's serious about that. i think rachel reevesis about that. i think rachel reeves is serious about that. and so i think it's a question of giving people something to look forward to. but at the same time making sure they know it's not going to be it's a disastrous for the country. >> so it's a cautious approach. well we're going to watch it all

with great interest in a moment. we're going to debate yep, great british energy. is this going to be a massive, massive success. almost a new industrial revolution. or is it going to be a great big white elephant disaster? all of that in a moment after

break. well, it was promised all through the election campaign . through the election campaign. and it's coming to pass. yes, gb energy and they're teaming up with the crown estate so they can fast track the building and development of offshore wind turbines on a scale that only bofis turbines on a scale that only boris johnson could possibly have dreamt of. because this was very much his policy. now the pr and spin around it is that by 2030, we'll have enough power for the equivalent of 20 million homes. isn't that marvellous ? homes. isn't that marvellous? and the energy is going to be cheaper. sounds amazing. the

government also confirm that great british energy will put 8.3 billion of public funding over the course of this parliament into projects such as wind, solar , tidal, wave energy wind, solar, tidal, wave energy as well as battery storage, carbon capture and hydrogen development. you know , folks, development. you know, folks, i've been hearing some of this stuff for 25 years. i was told in 2000, in the european parliament, just you wait, nigel. battery storage for electricity. it's all going to be sorted. it hasn't been. i've been told that hydrogen could be the miracle. i hope it is . but the miracle. i hope it is. but at the moment we're absolutely nowhere near it. and i do just wonder whether what we ought to call it is not renewable energy, but intermittent energy, because isn't that at the heart of the problem, that it's intermittent energy? you can't store it effectively, and it's been damned expensive so far. well, joining me down the line to debate whether gb energy is going to be a huge success or a

disaster is doctor paul dorfman, associate fellow, science policy research unit at the university of sussex. paul, you have heard some slight scepticism in my voice. i would love to be proved wrong . wrong. >> okay. 86% of all new power additions worldwide this year has been renewables with nuclear, nowhere , so i think nuclear, nowhere, so i think what we're seeing really is a energy revolution . energy energy revolution. energy revolution. we know that we need to electrify because of climate . to electrify because of climate. so the only way to do it is via essentially renewables. and in terms of renewables, the, the world and his auntie, all of the major international organisations state quite clearly that renewables will do the heavy lifting for net zero. >> well, okay. but let's take a i don't know, let's say mid—february next year, and

let's say there's a great anticyclone sitting over the nonh anticyclone sitting over the north sea. we've got fog, we've got heavy frost , coldest got heavy frost, coldest conditions of the year, peak demand for electricity, not a single wind turbine turning. and no solar energy either. do we? do we just accept blackouts? >> no. what you're talking about is thing called dunkel flout, which is basically what happens for maybe one week in the year when you one one week in the yeah when you one one week in the year. and clearly there's no such thing as a free lunch. and so therefore you're beginning to start talking about peaking gas in in that situation . and in in in that situation. and in terms of, you know, gb, you know, great british energy and the rest of it, i think we have to remember there will be a state owned, non nationalised non—monopoly. they point 3 billion will come from a tougher taxes on oil and gas. projects and the 20 to 30 gigawatt that you are talking about. the new offshore to power 20 million homes will be in addition to what we've currently got, which is 50 to 60 gigawatt. so you're

talking about 60, 70, 80, 90. you're talking about about 90 gigawatt by 2030. and by that point, if you add on the solar, if you add on the interconnection, if you add on the demand side management, if you add on the storage, if you add on all the other kinds of things, the tidal, the geothermal, all the rest of it, you're really beginning to get there. and it's not just me that's sending it. so what i'm saying is this, and i'm saying it quite clearly, of course, is that all the major energy institutes worldwide stayed quite clearly. and these people who know their business that renewables will do the heavy lifting for the energy transition. >> all right. okay, paul dorfman, thank you very much indeed. dorfman, thank you very much indeed . we'll never say on gb indeed. we'll never say on gb news you don't get all shades of opinion. yeah paul dorfman may well be sold on this. many of the international institutes may well be jake berry. i'm still pretty sceptical. >> well, i'm pleased to have the opportunity to talk about this, because i'm one of those unusual people in politics, a bit like you, nigel. maybe george as well, who's actually had a job

and my job, has been, for over 20 years. i've been doing legal work in relation to green energy and infrastructure. and also my wife runs a business in this sector. and i can tell you it's a hugely exciting market. there's big investment from the private sector . it's very private sector. it's very dynamic. it's very commercial. there are three things that stop this taking off. every single one of them is where the government interacts with the sector planning. you cannot get planning for things . grid planning for things. grid connection is the biggest sole clog on this market taking off. it's where the government's involved and the government is setting prices for things like the interconnect or your wind turbines. so i cannot see as someone who knows this industry and has worked in this industry, given that where the government touches this industry, it all goes wrong, that more government involvement is going to make it better? it won't. it will make it worse. i'm sorry, what the labour party has invented is the equivalent of the austin allegro square steering wheel of british leyland for great british energy. this will not work.

>> i mean, one thing that might work, george, is planning because, you know, they're going to team up with the crown estates to make it much easier to build within the 12 miles off the british coast. but do you see my scepticism about, you know, there ? you know, doctor know, there? you know, doctor dorfman mentioned electricity storage, which is not there yet, are we? >> well, i don't think technically we're there, but people understand to how do it. it's not that it's. oh, well, i think they do. and i don't think it's completely beyond the bounds of possibly what i do accept is that it's not going to happen overnight. there's a long lead in time. you know, you don't build these, turbines. you don't. and by the way, i think part of the mix has to be nuclear power as well. >> one thing, to be fair, ed miliband has said that, and i was very pleased that he said that. >> i must say, but even then, you don't build a nuclear generation system overnight. ten

years. yeah. so, you know, it's a question of, steady progress rather than. well, i think the idea of gb energy is a really exciting idea. it's one i mean, you know, jake has a more sceptical view of it than me. >> i've got some experience of this and let me say battery storage is there. i've been involved with battery storage sites which are now on the grid . sites which are now on the grid. the biggest thing stopping this proceeding is the fact that the national grid is not capable of taking multiple micro microgeneration sites , so if microgeneration sites, so if they really want to unblock this, planning is actually relatively easy. but unless until they change and unblock the national grid, there are sites in the north of england that have now got a connection date for the mid 2030s. they could be built next year. >> well, i mean george, sorry, george's point is none of this will happen overnight and 2030 is an unrealistic target. i mean, clearly i don't know whether it's unrealistic, but it's a very hard target to me. >> but can i just say one thing? i mean, on in terms of the

national grid and heaven forbid that i should say anything good about the previous government, but they actually, had a plan which is being carried out now to extend the national grid and put in some new routes and some new cabling and new pylons. >> i think the truth is, guys, this labour policy, it's bigger and bolder. yes, but it's no different to boris johnson's policy. it's no different to what the conservatives have been saying ever since 2010. >> no, i think the difference is that the labour party wants to pick the winners they want to take, according to their press release. they want to take stakes in businesses and say, this business is going to be the one that succeeds. that's not how the market works. i know a little bit about the market. there are some very good people involved in this, i see. yergin meyer, former chief executive of siemens, has gone in as the chief executive of great british energy. let's see how long it is, before yergin meyer gets bored or thinks this is fantastic, but he is a highly competent individual, so that gives me some find out. >> five years in prison for roger hallam and the just stop oil protesters, the right sentence are too harsh.

>> i think it was the right sentence. >> interesting. the right sentence? absolutely correct. well, one thing i know for certain is our viewers think it was the right sentence because ordinary folk going about their lives, running their businesses, going to funerals, going to hospitals should not be disrupted in that way. we've seen, of course, some quite prominent public figures coming out in support of the hallam gang. but a little bit like a legal immigration. we need some disincentives. in a moment, we'll talk washington , d.c, we'll talk washington, dc, we'll talk washington, dc, we'll talk washington, dc, we'll talk the visit of the israeli prime minister, benjamin netanyahu, and the scale of protests that took place outside the capitol building. has israel pretty much run out

well big, big disruption in washington, dc. yesterday and a big boycott. a lot of people did not a lot of elected members did not a lot of elected members did

not turn up to hear benjamin netanyahu. he was very praiseworthy of trump . but i praiseworthy of trump. but i just get the feeling everywhere that israel is running out of friends. i'm joined by a friend of the program down the line, jonathan sacerdoti , journalist jonathan sacerdoti, journalist and broadcaster. and jonathan, you get my point that israel is running out of friends. >> evening, nigel. >> evening, nigel. >> i think some people might look at what happened in dc as israel running out of friends, but others will have seen the israeli prime minister there giving that speech to rapturous applause, >> yes. there were some people who chose to stay away, and there were indeed some people outside who chose to protest. but what he chose to highlight there, and i think it was resoundingly applauded by those who were in the room, was the strength of the relationship between israel and the us, both from when, october the 7th first happened and joe biden gave that very appreciated and impressive speech back then. all the more impressive for how lousy some of his speeches have been since then. and then benjamin netanyahu reciprocated and

turned up and gave quite a powerful speech yesterday in the states. so i think that there's often a shift the difference a gulf between how some people want you to think the situation is and how the situation actually is. america is still supporting israel's actions. it hasn't stopped israel in carrying out that war, but it has got in the way of it, slowed it down, slowed down some weapons deliveries. and indeed, netanyahu did mention that in his speech, albeit in a rather diplomatic way. but he channelled winston churchill, saying, churchill said, give us the tools , we'll finish the job. the tools, we'll finish the job. he said. israel says give them the tools faster. they'll finish the tools faster. they'll finish the job faster. and that's the emphasis now is how many people are asking them to hurry up and finish the war. so he's saying, give us more weapons and we will. >> i don't particularly see kamala harris as being a big friend of israel. or am i wrong? >> i'm sorry about that. that's dreadful, i don't think kamala harris is particularly known for it to be a friend of israel. no quite, the. i don't see her varying necessarily drastically from biden in what she might do

in terms of relations with israel , because i in terms of relations with israel, because i think that israel, because i think that israel is still a bipartisan issue in america. obviously, the republicans are far more supportive , especially of the supportive, especially of the possibility of netanyahu carrying on in the war, carrying on.and carrying on in the war, carrying on. and there will be many in israel who are hoping for a trump presidency. if this is still dragging on at that point. but kamala harris is due to meet netanyahu right now. he just met biden in the oval office, and that was perhaps the briefest pre—meeting appearance i've ever seen in the oval office. both of them barely said anything. >> we will see what comes of it. thank you jonathan, as ever, george, this has become a huge issue for the labour party votes being lost in inner cities, in big northern cities and towns. what path will starmer be on with this? >> i think keir has been absolutely clear from the beginning that there is a problem. you can't just say, you know, israel's got no right to

do everything. it's a sovereign state. it's got a right to defend itself . and he's right to defend itself. and he's right to say that i think going back to netanyahu and his visit to the united states and his general status with the rest of the world, i think he he has got as you alluded to at the beginning, a serious problem . and he's got a serious problem. and he's got to be able to find a way to keep world opinion on his side and at the same time deal with the genuine problem he's got, for example, with iran and the influence that has in gaza . influence that has in gaza. >> no, no. absolutely. and, jake, you know, it's a very difficult position . i sometimes difficult position. i sometimes think that october the 7th has been forgotten. yeah. >> well, i mean, look, there is a reason why people, why israel is at war. it is simply because of october the 7th. there was a sustained ceasefire before that. israel is a democracy. it is a island, an island of democracy surrounded by dictatorships. many of whom deny its right to

exist. i think it's correct that both britain and the united states continue to support israel and the democracy, while at the same time , anyone with a at the same time, anyone with a brain should want for an immediate ceasefire in gaza. people do not want to see innocent civilians and children's killed. so we have to say , look, bring this war to an say, look, bring this war to an end as quickly as possible, but there have to be help to finish there have to be help to finish the job and remove the terrorist terrorism threat within their own borders, or equally innocent women and children being used as human shields. >> by terrorists, i mean, this is not an easy subject, is it? >> i mean, it's not i mean, it's not just hamas, although, you know, i accept what they did was unspeakable. yes. and doesn't they don't deserve to be in control of gaza or anywhere else. but it's not just them. they've got a problem with hezbollah based in lebanon . hezbollah based in lebanon. there's a problem with the houthi in yemen. and the common denominator between all three of them is iran. iran. >> yeah, yeah. who we've been so nice to over the last few years.

gentlemen, we'll debate that topic another day. thank you very much indeed for coming in after the break. i'll be joined by 64 years. yes 64 years. trevor kavanagh has been a journalist, but that's it. he's hanging up his pen forever. he was on talking points back in november 2021. he's the only man we've ever all woman. we've ever ianed we've ever all woman. we've ever invited back a second time. trevor kavanagh, in just

nobody ever comes back on talking points. they're not the rules. but we're going to make an exception for trevor kavanagh, who comes back. you will ask with us. back in 2021. trevor, welcome. very good health. back on the talking pints and. 64 years in journalism . journalism. >> yes. it's shocking isn't it? >> yes. it's shocking isn't it? >> i mean, one of the strangest things about retiring is that i'm suddenly confronted with the fact that i'm 81 and i don't

feel 81, or i didn't until joe biden resigned. >> and suddenly i realised that actually, it's quite a long time in journalism. it's been fantastic. >> i read some of your your last column, by the way. i always, always, always make sure i get a hard copy of the sun newspaper on monday mornings for your weekly column , which i i'm sure weekly column, which i i'm sure jacob does the same. you know , jacob does the same. you know, even jacob photographed buying the sun, you see. so i mean, and it was and even though we'd exchange messages the next monday, i turned and you weren't there. and have you had lots of emails from people saying they feel let down? >> well , i'm feel let down? >> well, i'm absolutely staggered, actually, nigel, by the number of very, very kind messages from readers i didn't know i had. yeah. and who spoke in very personal terms about the number of years, indeed decades that they've been following both me and the paper and it was a really a bit like reading my own obituary . but it was a very obituary. but it was a very gratifying experience because, you know, sometimes you think

you're just a tree falling in a forest and suddenly you discover that people are actually listening or watching. >> well, i remember a few years ago, one of the great claims of the sun, i think yourself and back to kelvin's days, and perhaps after that was that the sun was the most read newspaper in british boardrooms. >> yes. in fact, when you remember the black wednesday or white wednesday very well. >> yeah , >> yeah, >> yeah, >> i was told by a someone on the trading floor that there were no ft's around because they didn't trust the ft on issues like the european union, and all you could see was copies of the sun. interesting. yeah, 64 years ago. >> journalism. you did it here. you did it in australia. no internet, no mobile phones . i internet, no mobile phones. i mean, it's such a different world. it's unbelievable. >> it is . and indeed not just no >> it is. and indeed not just no mobile phones, sometimes no phone boxes, sometimes they were superglued. you'd be running down the street with a story you had to file by a certain time, and you'd go to a phone box or a

bank of phone boxes, and they will be superglued. and you couldn't put your tnp in to get a phone call out. and so there was some quite a and also sometimes your opposition colleagues had sabotaged the phone. so, you know, the advent of the mobile phone totally transformed life. and the and the laptop, the tandy, as it was in those days, the ability to file from places like beijing or or from moscow, where they would block the phones until they were ready to let you go through. well, with a tandy, you could do it instantly, and the whole thing would be gone down in the in the copytakers hands instantly. fantastic >> now, you spent many of those years in the lobby. explain to our audience what the lobby is. it's got this wonderful sort of sense of mystery about it. how doesit sense of mystery about it. how does it work? >> well, the lobby represents all the newspapers and all the broadcasters in the country. and now the online wire and new services that have popped up since i stopped there. so it's a very large body. once, once upon a time , it was just the daily

a time, it was just the daily newspapers, a select group of about ten. >> it was a club then, wasn't it? >> it was more or less in— >> it was more or less a it? >> it was more or less a club and we had our own dining room, and we had our own dining room, and we had our own system, and we had our own rule book about how you could approach politicians if they were talking to another journalist. you weren't allowed to go near them, and you were never allowed to chase them or run across the lobby. but what what it was, was a card giving you access to ministers, to mps on the hoof. and it was a privilege to actually be in the house of commons, seeing people on equal terms as a newspaper reporter. and it was a very, very rich scene. >> what you've seen so much from your writing, it's clear that your writing, it's clear that you really you admire the courage of margaret thatcher enormously. >> yes. i'm afraid i am a thatcherite. i can now say this because i'm retired . i think because i'm retired. i think that margaret thatcher was a phenomenon, unfortunately, not to be repeated in the foreseeable future, but she changed britain. i came back from australia in 1978 during

the winter of discontent and the last months of the callaghan government, and i then witnessed the evolution of thatcherism, which started not very, somewhat unevenly, and then got into its stride with the falklands war. and suddenly people were saying, this is unusual, this is a phenomenon. she became dubbed the iron lady. and people we used to travel with her on the vc10 part of the royal flight. huge privilege being and other prime ministers too. but it was thatcher who really got people's juices flowing in the sense that she would visit the european, the soviet union, and she would be literally a huge crowd. i mean, she was the taylor swift of her era. yeah. and that's why they they hero worship is amazing . amazing. >> blair had hero worship in this country , including from this country, including from your newspaper. >> it did, i was on licence. i was the maverick licensed critic of blairism and the tony blair's

pale blue toryism, which was a fake anyway. and we really sort of fell out right from the beginning of the moment. he opened the floodgates to a mass immigration, and i remarked to him once had he had he had he clocked the fact that the face of britain was changing . and he of britain was changing. and he looked at me as if i'd just crawled from out from under a rock. this is racism. this is fascism. and that's the way they deau fascism. and that's the way they dealt with that particular point. >> yeah. i mean, you've been very consistent on this. you've beenin very consistent on this. you've been in trouble over this a couple of times. what you've written, we won't dwell over that. we don't need to. i've campaigned very hard on this for a very similar period of time. the great british public are beginning to understand this, aren't they? >> i think the great british pubuc >> i think the great british public have woken up to this much sooner than now, is only that the evidence is beginning to spill over into their lives, that it's beginning to make them angry, that they are in this position where multiculturalism has blatantly failed. and it's obviously happening before our

eyes on the television news as we speak, almost every day. almost every day. >> yeah, no, it's depressing . >> yeah, no, it's depressing. one huge figure in your life and in a way, in all of our lives, is an australian born man called 92 or is he 93 now? 93? yeah. rupert, you're just a youngster, you see, i know rupert murdoch. i mean, there's so many strong opinions about rupert murdoch, but he did play a crucial role in keeping the pound, didn't he? oh, he did , oh, he did, >> in fact, i think i can safely say that it was rupert murdoch that saved the pound because he told tony blair that, unless he held a referendum before joining the european currency, we would go against him. we would campaign against him as a newspaper. and at that time, we had such a big circulation that he had to take notice and eventually promised that he would have a referendum. and for them, from then on, the issue was sold. and how involved in those negotiations were you, trevor? oh, not directly, i have to tell you. no, but i think that , the thing about i was

that, the thing about i was political editor for 23 years, and you cannot hold that sort of position on a paper like the sun , position on a paper like the sun, unless you are pretty much in accord with the views of the proprietor or the editor of the day, kelvin mackenzie. and various others who took that role, and rupert murdoch himself . role, and rupert murdoch himself. and murdoch is a phenomenal newspaper man who one day will get the full credit for what he did for the newspaper industry, which was to create at 1.50 thousand jobs under his proprietorship across the world and 50,000 jobs. and as he said , and 50,000 jobs. and as he said, some at any particular clock , some at any particular clock, someone, somewhere, some journalist is having lunch at my expense. and it was my privilege to be that journalist. >> interesting. but last time you were on back in 21, we talked about inflation. you predicted that the government had it all completely wrong. the bank of england had it completely wrong. inflation would hit double digits and it did so. given your record for predictions, starmer , how long? predictions, starmer, how long? how long does he stay popular ?

how long does he stay popular? is there a honeymoon or is it going to fall to pieces quite quickly? >> i suspect the honeymoon is already beginning to unravel. i think that what we've seen straight away on the issues we've been discussing on immigration, that he's effectively declared an amnesty for the 100,000, even though he's talking about 70,000. eventually it will be just about all of them. it will be fast tracked to visa status and therefore residence, and they will never leave the country again, and on the other hand, i think that the boats will still come and we will also, on top of that, have to accept 100,000 a year from the european union as part of the quid pro quo for this new reset relationship between britain and europe . between britain and europe. >> well, the centre right needs to face up to that, doesn't it? and i'm trying to do my bit to get it all reshaped. some people like it, some people don't. but the conservatives have made an awful mess of it, >> to be fair, nigel, i think you're now the leader of the opposition. and i mean , what opposition. and i mean, what voice do they have? at least until november, when they finally get around to.

>> even then, it's difficult to see them being united. >> well, this is the biggest problem. the selection process for the seats that were won by the tories, the diminished number of seats they do hold , number of seats they do hold, many of them are held by people who have pro—european views. they are remainers, if not avowedly. then in their hearts they're not fervently keen on they're not fervently keen on the idea of making brexit work as it should. >> so trevor kavanagh , you've >> so trevor kavanagh, you've had a bit of a heart issue. a couple of operations. you'd be looking very fit. what's the golf handicap, >> it's one, but it's only between half a dozen of us. >> it's a fantasy. and what's the plan? i mean, it's gonna be very difficult to retire, isn't it? come on, be honest. >> no, actually, it's actually, i'm thoroughly enjoying it. >> i don't believe you. >> i don't believe you. >> well, i'm going to still do the odd column or not. a column gives it a sense of regularity. it'll be as and when, as and when i'm asked. i will do so, and i will appear on talk tv and

gb news as and when . so in that gb news as and when. so in that sense, i won't be disappearing. but i will be taking a much more relaxed attitude towards work. >> and lots and lots of golf. >> and lots and lots of golf. >> lots of golf, lots of travel. yeah, off back to australia in a few months time and so yes, i think that i've, i've got some time to fill and i'm going to fill it. >> no good for you. and looking back on all of it it's very tough question to answer. but what are the what are the sort of 2 or 3 things that stand out as being the highlights of your career? >> well, i think the biggest thing to me is the way that i've got i've gained access to people in at cabinet rank , at cabinet in at cabinet rank, at cabinet secretary level on equal terms . secretary level on equal terms. and the travel that goes with that particular privilege. and i've been everywhere either with, with one prime minister or another. i've been to beijing, i've been to, i've been in the forbidden city, the great hall of the people, tiananmen square.

i've been to the white house, i've been to the white house, i've interviewed president george bush in the oval office, and i've been inside the kremlin and i've been inside the kremlin and talked once briefly to putin. yeah. and that's just just the tip of the iceberg. i mean, the top of the icing on the cake. yeah. >> well, it's been a fantastic career. and i want to pay tribute to you because i think that i think what you've done is amazing and you've brought a great level of integrity. and, jacob, i want you to come in on this. he's always so calm, isn't he? >> he's brilliant, but he's also extremely modest because actually , as even as a cabinet actually, as even as a cabinet minister, you've got a call from trevor. >> you're really pleased to get it. it meant that you were having something interesting to say, or you'd be an awful boo boo , one or the other. and boo, one or the other. and therefore always. i loved heanng therefore always. i loved hearing from trevor as a politician. it was, in a way, a status symbol. >> i often wonder why trevor didn't do more question times when it was the dominant programme on bbc. i remember you once on question time and it was it was the blair government. it

was to do with european integration. i remember you saying quite calmly, when are you going to stop lying? and i thought, yeah, i like this. this is really, really good. you didn't do a lot of question times, did you, >> i did one of the things i don't like doing is travelling all over the country to a question time audience somewhere in the far north, and it's just laziness, frankly. and then we sort of fell out. the bbc and i fell out. they've never spoken to me again. >> it's very easy to fall out with trevor kavanagh. thank you. and good luck with it all. thank you know, well done. well done. you jacob. i see you've had a big sit down with tom tugendhat. i have, i've had a really interesting conversation with tom. >> obviously we talk about the echr and his views on that , his echr and his views on that, his views on net zero. how he thinks he can unite the party and whether you take away the whip from some people who don't know what a man is and what a woman is, or assume there are a few on the tory benches. >> i was told i was a nutter for talking about the echr four years ago. nobody would ever be interested in that. now it's a really important. but it was

funny. i saw a bit of the interview where he said, you know, we have to be absolutely clear. and then he wasn't very clear, was he? >> politicians should never say, i want to be absolutely clear. i think people should win a prize. when politicians say that harold wilson started off, i think, saying, let me be completely frank. at which point you knew harold wilson was going to say something that wasn't absolutely wasn't, you know, jacob, what else have you got tonight? >> oh, what are we going to be talking about? >> we're going to be talking about gb energy, and we're going to be talking about the huge prison actually. and james cleverly's constituency, another contender, raf wethersfield. >> fabulous. i'm done for the day. i'm back with you on tuesday evening. next week. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news . weather on gb news. >> good evening. this is your latest gb news weather forecast coming to you from the met office. there's likely to be something a bit drier and warmer early next week, but before then, plenty of showers and actually through the end of today there is still some more

persistent rain affecting some parts of the south—east due to a waving frontal system that's already brought quite a bit of rain. that rain in the far south—east should clear through as we go through the next few hours though, and so for many it is going to be a largely dry night, just a scattering of showers continuing across western parts of scotland in particular also parts of northern ireland and northwest england. many places though having some clear skies and it may be a touch fresher than last night towards the northwest, still quite warm and muggy towards the southeast, and as we go through tomorrow morning, then a bright start for many , then a bright start for many, maybe the odd pocket of mist and fog around, but i think on the whole it's largely dry. a few showers already pushing into parts of western england and wales, but further east a drier story, a few showers also for western parts of northern ireland, but it's down the western side of scotland , where western side of scotland, where the showers are going to be most frequent, and there could already be some heavy ones as we go through the morning. eastern parts of scotland clinging on to some fine sunny weather through a large chunk of the morning. but as we head towards the

afternoon, those showers are going to become a bit more widespread . some of them could widespread. some of them could be on the heavy side, and there could be the odd rumble of thunder mixed in, albeit they don't look as intense as the showers that we saw yesterday. plenty of showers for northern ireland, parts of western england and wales may see a few showers staying dry towards the east, and a decent amount of sunshine. and with that feeling pretty warm again, temperatures in the mid 20s for some. looking ahead to saturday, and after a mostly fine start for many of us, we are going to see the showers developing yet again. slight differences in where we're most likely to see the showers. probably northern england. north wales could see the heaviest showers on saturday and they could be quite slow moving because the winds will be dropping out a little bit. but sunday into monday looks drier and warmer by by a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb. >> news

>> well .

>> well. >> well. >> hello. good evening. it's me, jacob rees—mogg on state of the nafion jacob rees—mogg on state of the nation . tonight, the tory nation. tonight, the tory leadership race is underway and tonight i will be bringing you a full length interview with shadow security minister tom tugendhat. i asked him everything from the echr to withdraw from that convention or lead a conservative party campaigning to withdraw from it. >> i am willing to do it. >> i am willing to do it. >> to what to do about nigel farage and reform . farage and reform. >> nigel has made his position clear, but i'm asking your position. >> would you want him in? >> would you want him in? >> look, i think nigel has made his position clear. i to the future of the tory party we've got to rebuild, frankly , this is got to rebuild, frankly, this is where what we've got to do is we've got to own the mistakes that we made . that we made. >> that's all coming up shortly. plus, we will be discussing labour's new energy plans that will cost you more than £8 billion. we'll also be speaking

to a local resident of weatherfield.