it? you tell me. and the tory it.7 you tell me. and the tory leadership race is hotting up. much debates about which direction the party needs to go in. your thoughts on that and also the topic of leaving the echr is certainly not going away. so should we leave or should we stay? and as many predicted, labour looks set to announce a black hole in the pubuc announce a black hole in the public finances. the perfect excuse, then, to raise taxes , excuse, then, to raise taxes, and a pride festival is under for fire allowing one of their stall holders stand up to racism in case you're wondering, to have a game of toss a milkshake over nigel farage. i mean, come on now. on how. >> on now. >> we are proud to be gb news the people's channel. and as you know, we always love to hear your views. now there's a new way of getting in touch with us at gbnews.com/yoursay by

commenting, you can be part of a live conversation and join our gb news community. you can even talk to me, bev turner or any of the members of the gb news family. simply go to gbnews.com/yoursay . gbnews.com/yoursay. >> yes, i've got all of that and more, not least by the way, have you seen the latest update on this manchester airport situation? lots of press conferences and so on and so forth. but what i want to know is how is the actual police officer that had her nose broken? anyone? any information? get in touch. tell me your thoughts on all of that. but first, the 6:00 news headlines. >> michelle, thank you and good evening to you. it is exactly 6:01. and the top story tonight . 6:01. and the top story tonight. the police watchdog has launched a criminal investigation into an officer who was filmed kicking and stamping on a man's head at manchester airport. the iopc is

looking into whether his use of force was acceptable . three force was acceptable. three armed police were seriously injured as they attended to reports of an assault, which happened before the events seen in the video, which has now been shared widely online. there have also been widespread protests following the incident on tuesday, with demonstrators blocking the city's tram lines and roads . blocking the city's tram lines and roads. people blocking the city's tram lines and roads . people travelling to and roads. people travelling to the paris olympics are experiencing massive delays after vandals targeted the rail networks, co—ordinated arson attacks on high speed lines have also crippled eurostar, with 1 in 4 services cancelled. it's not known who was behind the vandalism or why. the disruption comes just hours ahead of the official start of tonight's paris olympics . here, a rapist paris olympics. here, a rapist who threw a boy off a cliff to try to cover up his crimes has been sentenced today to life in prison. anthony stokes raped and sexually assaulted a girl multiple times between 2019 and 2022, when she confided in a boy

stocks threw him off a cliff. miraculously, he did survive but continues to suffer ongoing health issues. stokes was convicted of a number of crimes , convicted of a number of crimes, including attempted murder and rape, and he'll now spend at least 19 years behind bars. rape, and he'll now spend at least 19 years behind bars . an least 19 years behind bars. an alternative healer has been found guilty of gross negligence manslaughter following the death of a woman at a slapping therapy workshop. hongshi zhao, who has no medical qualifications, preached the benefits of hitting yourself to rid the body of toxins. danielle carr—gomm stopped taking her diabetes medication after going along to one of his seminars in wiltshire, and died in 2016. in other news, drivers are still paying other news, drivers are still paying too much for petrol amid warnings that the industry is failing consumers. the competitions and markets authority issued a report last year that found fuel prices were significantly above historic levels. but a year on, it's seen little progress and says retailers are still failing to pass on a drop in wholesale

pnces pass on a drop in wholesale prices to motorists. it says the government should use new laws to force companies to be more transparent about their pricing, and it comes as the margin of petrol at supermarkets remains roughly double what it was in 2019. the health secretary has called the nhs broken following a report into the regulator that oversees care services across the country. an independent review found significant failings at the care quality commission, the cqc inspects around 90,000 services, including hospitals and gp practices. the regulator says it accepts those findings, but wes streeting told us earlier he's still stunned. >> there are you know, cases of hospitals not being inspected for over a decade, a care provider that hadn't been inspected since 2015, and even the ratings that are published and that we use as the public to make choices about to where receive health or care, some of those are, frankly, bogus

because of the way in which they've been put together based on either partial inspections or piecing together more recent inspections with historic verdicts on those health and care providers . care providers. >> wes streeting, they're speaking to us earlier. well, mel stride has become the fourth conservative mp to enter the race to become the party's next leader. the shadow work and pensions secretary now joins james cleverly, tom tugendhat and robert jenrick in the contest to take over from rishi sunak. he says the tories, though, should avoid veering too far to the right and focus on unity in australia , doctors are unity in australia, doctors are working to reattach a surfer's leg after he was attacked by a shark. kyle mackenzie, who's 23, was surfing near port macquarie on tuesday morning. that's about 250 miles from sydney when he was bitten by a three metre long great white shark. he managed to catch a wave to shore, though, where an off duty police officer

helped him stem the bleeding and in an extraordinary twist, his severed leg later washed ashore and was put on ice by quick thinking locals. doctors are now working to see whether it can be reattached . and finally to the reattached. and finally to the us, where the first tv ad for kamala harris's presidential bid has just hit the screens. take a listen. >> we choose freedom. freedom freedom! i can't move! >> freedom! cut me loose. freedom freedom! where are you? >> well , featuring that >> well, featuring that soundtrack by beyonce, who has given her blessing to the vice president, the ad touches on gun violence, health care and abortion while casting donald trump as a convicted criminal. and it comes as a new poll by the new york times tonight. and siena college puts miss harris level with mr trump, a stark turnaround from the previous poll, which had joe biden trailing by six points. those are the latest headlines from the gb newsroom. for now, i'm

sam francis, back with you for another update at 7:00 for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . slash alerts. >> thank you very much for that slapping therapy. i mean, just some people just believe absolutely anything in this society or what would you have fallen for that get in touch your thoughts. i'm michelle dewberry i'm with you till 7:00 tonight alongside with my panel. the director of the popular conservatives, mike littlewood and the trade unionist and author paul embery. good evening to both of you. good to be with you. evening. i can't wait to open dup tavern tonight. i will confess i cannot wait, but wait. we shall do, because there's a lot to get through before we get stuck into that, you know the drill. you know how to get hold of me tonight. you can email gb views @gbnews. com you can go to the website gbnews.com/yoursay

and talk to me and each other there. or of course you can go to twitter and you can tweet or text me. but wherever you are tonight, you're very, very welcome indeed. now, of course, tonight marks the opening ceremony of the paris 2024 olympic games. simple question for you. are you into the olympics? are you excited? what are you most looking forward to ? are you most looking forward to? and how do you think that team gb are actually going to fare? let's cross live to our reporter in paris. sophie reaper. is there good evening to you. i've got to start, sophie, by saying this whole event has been bought in, right in front of a backdrop of what i would say, chaos, chaotic scenes today. tell us more . more. >> well, michel, it's been a very dramatic start here in paris this morning with what's been described as coordinated criminal acts of arson. that's on the french high speed rail network this morning, prosecutors in paris saying that they are now carrying out a

national investigation , with national investigation, with those crimes potentially carrying sentences of 15 to 20 years. now, the sncf, a french rail network, said that this had affected areas the north, the east and the west of paris, that there was attempts as well in there was attempts as well in the southeast, but that attempt was foiled. now hundreds of thousands of people have been affected by this damage caused to the high speed rail network, with the knock on effect, of course, also being faced by people in the uk. now. there was concerns about team gb athletes making it over, but in the last couple of hours we have heard from team gb and they've confirmed that although there were two athletes making their way over today, that they both arrived safely here in paris this morning. so there will be no disruption to team gb's athletes. however, when it comes to fans , they may find a to fans, they may find a different story waiting for them , different story waiting for them, of course. knock on on the eurostar, knock on dan in dover.

i imagine our airports will be facing a flux of passengers attempting to board their flights over to paris, especially those who will be seeing events over this weekend. they really need to make an effort to get over to paris as soon as they possibly can. so not an ideal start here in paris. i'm sure it's not the start that the french olympic committee would have wanted, but they've got to pick themselves up and dust themselves off because it will soon be the start of paris 2024. >> thank you very much for that. one of my viewers has got in touch on the website, philip, he says yes , i like the olympics. says yes, i like the olympics. i like the ladies beach volleyball. i bet you do. i bet you do . your thoughts on the you do. your thoughts on the olympics, mark, i love sports. >> the olympics is not for me. >> the olympics is not for me. >> these people are great athletes , michel, but it's athletes, michel, but it's basically skipping, hopping and jumping. i much prefer sports that have tactics involved in them, like football or cricket or rugby, rather than just sprint races. this is supposed

to be, by the way, one thing i do like about the olympics, michel, it's supposed to be amateur athletics, right ? so why amateur athletics, right? so why is the french government spending ,9 billion on all of this fanfare ? just put these this fanfare? just put these people in a stadium and let's see how far they can throw a javelin, or how quickly they can run around the track should come nearly for free. >> blimey, mark, you're an old libertarian curmudgeon. >> he's all about the money. it's all about the 9 billion. nobody's turning up, paul. this is. they can't sell out the tickets once every four years. they can't sell out the tickets. it's a festival of the best sports. sports people in the world coming together. and i love it. i think it's a great event, and it's really sad what's happened. actually, on a serious note, i know that's true. it's appalling. and the mindset of people who think they can disrupt the olympics like this and ruin millions of people enjoyment. you have to wonder, you know , the mindset of those you know, the mindset of those sorts of people, what goes through their head when they when they do that. and, you know, you can only hope that

those people are quickly traced and brought to justice. but i don't know how you guard against that, i don't know. hang on. it's quite it's quite likely. i don't know, i'm speculating a coordinated activity. well, i think it clearly is. i mean, i think it clearly is. i mean, i think the russians are the first prime suspects. we don't know . prime suspects. we don't know. this isn't just a bunch of teenagers having a laugh. this looks pretty coordinated. whether it's the russians. i mean, i think we need to be careful. it could be. i mean, i don't know, they were responsible for salisbury, but at the same time, we were also told the russians were responsible for trump getting elected. but it looks coordinated. we were told that the russians were responsible for brexit, and it turned out that all of that stuff was completely overblown. so i always take any suggestion that it's the russians. no, no, i agree, but you do think it looks coordinated. oh, i think it's i think it's clearly coordinated because there were three rail lines involved and it all happened overnight. yeah, but how you guard against how you guard against that? i'm not sure . guard against that? i'm not sure. because i don't think you can have 24 hour security on rail lines in the countryside and whatever . so if people are

whatever. so if people are determined to, to do this sort of thing and to wreck the enjoyment of everybody else, and it may be gratuitous, it may be teenage gangs who have coordinated it, but it may be gratuitous in that respect. or it might be a state agent, or it might be somebody trying to make a political process. we need to keep calm and carry on. if it is a political protest, why haven't they laid claim to it? sure already. >> keep calm, carry on and just keep watching. dewbs& co we're much more interesting than the opening ceremony anyway, that's what i think, look, there's a very squeaky chair. is that you? that's me. i can hear a very. >> i told you my square was too short too and squeaky. you look taller than me. >> cheeky bob, i was i was trying to be professional and styling that out, but i think i've lasted about two minutes before i might get you some wd 40 or something in the break. are you going to reply it? >> yeah. >> yeah. >> look, i might do look one another story that i want to touch on tonight as well is the whole situation in manchester airport by now you're all familiar with what's happening, the officer there, that's involved, he is now going to be

undergoing criminal investigation. of course, you know that he's been removed from duty, but there's a i cannot i mean, i don't condone anyone, being kicked in the head or anything like that. let me just make that clear. but there's something about this whole incident that's making me quite uncomfortable. and that is in part, the response to it, because we had andy burnham today. i mean, he's doing a press conference on it, and there seems to be this focus on on the community, the community, this and the community that. and we're going to meet with community leaders, and we're doing this and we're doing that. since when was law and order and right and wrong decided by community activists? >> michelle, you've absolutely nailed it. there's a specific incident here that involves one police officer and one civilian, and this should be investigated properly. i was actually saw on gb news last night was the first time i saw the few seconds of footage. i understand if you see all of the footage, it might tell a different story. the greater manchester police should look into this properly. it

looks like they are and work out whether that was a proportionate response. this is not about communities or groups or identities, but it is. it shouldn't be. >> well, it shouldn't be. and this is my it is about it is about the guy on the ground and the police officer. >> and i have no view yet on whether that police officer overreacted, nor should i have one that should be investigated. and there shouldn't be protests on the streets or statements , on the streets or statements, frankly, from andy berman until the greater manchester police have got to the bottom of what occurred. it looks like they're doing their job quickly, thoroughly and sensibly , and thoroughly and sensibly, and that's the way it should be. >> let's listen to a little bit of andy burnham from this afternoon. >> what people here don't want. and i heard this very clearly in the room this morning is politicians without possession of the facts, exploiting the situation for their own political agenda with zero regard for the effect on the ground in communities in greater manchester. >> paul mbappe, your thoughts ?

>> paul mbappe, your thoughts? >> paul mbappe, your thoughts? >> it looks bad, it does look bad. but context is everything. and as mark said, we don't quite know what the context of the incident was and it is important that it's investigated before people jump to conclusions. but i can't think of what context might exist to justify what a police officer did to someone who, at that moment in time, clearly or didn't appear to be posing a threat. and there was a kick to the head and there was a stamp to the head. so i can't think of circumstances. i held something in his hand. i don't know, that would be a circumstance. well but he was clearly prostrate on the prostrate on the floor. something in your hand for sake of argument. i'm speculating and it's possible. but in those circumstances, looking at it as we've all done, i can't really think of a context in which that immediate action was justified . immediate action was justified. but at the same time, i'm not going to condemn the officer on the basis of tv footage. i do agree that i think it's right that an investigation needs to take place. before before he's hung, drawn and quartered, going

back to the other point about community leaders, i mean, that phrase is used all the time, isn't it? who elects these people? who elects community leaders? where do they get their mandate from? self—appointed. they seem to me to be. well, i was just going to say they seem to me to be self—appointed people who somehow have risen to have influence within their particular community and are then almost by default, seen as then almost by default, seen as the go to people. if there's an issue in this community, the police are somehow obliged to go and speak to community leaders. now, i don't think police should feel that obliged, actually, because for me that seems to bypass the democratic process. if you want to speak to local councillors, that's fine. if you want to speak to youth club leaders, for example, who play a particular role, then that's fine. but community leaders are very vague. just because someone says to you , he's our leader and says to you, he's our leader and you know, but there's a thing here about our political leaders, surely. michelle, you teed it up . andy burnham holds teed it up. andy burnham holds a press conference in front of the

television cameras, saying it would be quite wrong for politicians to comment upon this until we know the facts. so why the hell have you convened a press conference? >> but then credits are, i mean, put yourself in the place of andy burnham. he's probably sitting there and he's he's probably worried about mass civil unrest. he's probably worried about his city essentially getting trashed. >> well, you think that press conference is going to solve that? well, i don't know. >> i mean, i was just looking at what george galloway said. he's written, really long messages. he's met with all the family and so on and so forth. but he's saying everyone should display patience and calm. we believe in justice. and he's calling for this protest that's been organised this weekend not to go ahead, but i guess, i mean , ahead, but i guess, i mean, let's not lose sight of the fact. and again, i don't want to pre—empt any outcomes because i think that's wrong. and i don't know how we've ended up in this society where if someone doesn't like an outcome, they're going to take to the streets and they're going to cause problems to intimidate outcomes.

they're going to cause problems to intimidate outcomes . and i to intimidate outcomes. and i kind of where's the conversation about the woman , the police about the woman, the police officer? because according to the police force, she's had her nose broken. that was only a few days ago on this programme that i was having the conversation about some kind of national emergency had been declared about violence against women and girls. so why is that ? why is girls. so why is that? why is there not more focus on, i presume? >> i haven't looked at the assailants, but i presume whoever broke that woman police officer's nose is going to be charged and face criminal. well, so, i mean, if they caught them, if they've got you've had people arrested and then been for free. >> i think it was and then released on bail, i just there's just so much gbh. >> if you break somebody's nofion >> if you break somebody's notion that's grievous bodily harm. >> yeah, but then where's the updates on this officer. why are there no updates on her condition? all the ones that was injured who apparently went to hospital, the whole thing strikes me as being a little bit odd, but i'm just uncomfortable with this notion that communities are dictating the outcomes of law and order. i mean, we saw it in harehills the other day, didn't we? when those

children, apparently there was enough cause for concern among, you know, the social services and so to on remove children from the family, people to take the streets, start setting fire to buses and fridges and trashing their neighbourhood. and then, lo and behold, guess what happens? the children are placed back with members of the family. now they're either at risk or they're not at risk. and if they are at risk, and i really hope to god that they've not been put into a place where they shouldn't be just because grown men, let's face it, seem to think that they've got some kind of right to set fire to their own street. there is a danger of the police responding to mob rule, and i think there is the fear amongst people that ship sails and this is what i'm saying to you. i think that that ship has sailed. and i think thatis ship has sailed. and i think that is exactly the scenario that is exactly the scenario that we find ourselves in now. and it's been going on forever. i mean, i always hark about batley grammar teacher. i'll always go on about this. you allowed a teacher to be hounded out of their livelihood to go into hiding. you allowed it. you turned a blind eye to them. what happens is you embolden people to think that if they don't like something, guess what they can

take to the streets en masse and they can threaten violence and intimidation in order to sway outcomes? i think it's a very worrying situation that we find ourselves in, look, he's got a lot more to say, but he'll have to hold that thought, because there's a lot i've got to get through tonight. i can tell you now, i want to talk to you about rachel reeves. apparently, she's going to find this massive black hole in public spending. is it time for tax rises? is that what's coming our way? and would you that? see you two.

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry, and i'm with you till 7:00 tonight alongside me. mark littlewood and paul embery remain, he's just been chuntering in the break. he's not happy that break dancing is now an olympic sport. what do you think to that? are you a break dancer? do you reckon that thatis break dancer? do you reckon that that is the kind of thing that should be an olympics or not?

right. let's cut to the chase. and when it comes to tax rises now, there was a lot of speculation, wasn't there, about whether or not taxes were going to be increased, where the labour party actually saying this line about they're not going to raise taxes on working families. and all along there was suspicions. mark that what was suspicions. mark that what was going to happen, she was going to pick up the box and go, didn't realise that was there. bosh, there's your tax rise. is this what we're going to see play this what we're going to see play out? >> but certainly what the labour government is claiming, it's not very plausible because all of the numbers have been in the pubuc the numbers have been in the public domain forever. there's no hidden book behind the number 10 or number 11 sofa, in which they suddenly found a new number. paul johnson from the incredibly neutral middle of the road institute for fiscal studies this morning was saying, sorry, all the numbers are in the public domain. there have been for months. rachel reeves is claiming there is a £20 billion black hole in the public finances. michelle, i've got news for you and for rachel reeves. it is far worse than that. reeves. it is far worse than that . the overall debt position that. the overall debt position of the uk is something like £7

trillion 7000 billion. she's just measuring what is the budget against the obr's forecast this year? this would be a bit like me worrying that i'd lost a pound coin behind the back of the sofa while i was 100 grand overdrawn at the bank. so she's talking about the pound coin she's lost behind the sofa. we are colossally overdrawn. pubuc we are colossally overdrawn. public spending is going to have to fall, and our politicians have got to admit it. and michelle, you ask about the tax rate. so i'm sure there'll be one. but i don't think they can raise any more in tax. we are taxing to the max already. >> but then do you concede then, that the tories have left the economy in a diabolical state? yes. good. that was easy, paul embery, do you reckon we're heading for tax cuts? yeah. tax rises, actually, not tax cuts. >> you should be honest about it. the country needs massive investment. we're an undeveloped country. the nhs is failing. people can't get in to see their gp or their dentist. we've got a housing crisis and it needs

remedying and it needs remedying by governments stepping up to the plate and spending money, but paul, we've done that on the nhs for years now. but it also needs reform. the nhs also needs i mean, we've been throwing money at it for years. the conservatives threw tons of money at it. i appreciate that the nhs also needs reform, but it also it also needs money. and the truth is, mark, as i've said on this show many times, we are a rich country. we are not a poor country. the problem is too much wealth is concentrated in too few hands. when you live in a country where the richest five families have got as much wealth as the poorest 20% of more wealth actually, than the poorest 20% of the population, and the gap between rich and poor continues widening to the point where we have got very appalling wealth and income inequality. now, you would say, i know. well, that's fine. let the rich get as rich as they possibly want to. let's encourage them . low taxes, low

encourage them. low taxes, low regulation, they'll become billionaires. and some of that wealth will eventually trickle down to people. no, it won't trickle down because because, paul trickle down because because, paul, the more and more of them are leaving, well, more millionaires are leaving britain per capita than any other country in the world. the point is, well, many people on your side of policy doesn't need to trickle down your taxes. you do say that they say they believe in the trickle down theory. no, no, i can't think of an economist. the only way he believes in the only way in reality, that you close the gap between rich and poor is by the government intervening and seeking to redistribute wealth. i'm talking about hang on. we've tested this to death. i'm not talking about punitive taxation, but we are not punitive. actually, we are not over taxed in this country compared to international standards. we actually 1% pay 25%. our tax burden mark is lower than a lot of countries, 38% overall. it's still lower. it's slightly higher than normal by historical standards. in britain, the highest is actually lower in our lifetime. lower than many european countries. yeah, but hang on, paul, you've got you've got to parcel this out. the total tax burden could go up. we

could charge people more for buying a pint of beer or buying something in a shop. your argument was about making the tax burden on the rich higher. the rich, not the general base of tax. it's be a start, well, the top 1% of income earners pay about a quarter of income tax. the top 10% pay more than half more than that , the top 1% pay more than that, the top 1% pay 30% of all incomes. and the top 10% pay more than half. >> they pay 60%. yeah, well, what thanks do they get? >> these people should have blue plaques on walls. play me the world's smallest violin mark. these shouldn't be because they're leaving britain because of this treatment. well well. so they're holding the country to ransom, aren't they? they're just leaving. yeah. well, exactly. they're holding the country. that's why. no ransom. they're saying unless the government does what we want as rich people with the ability to be able to exert influence through our power, through our wealth on democratically elected governments, unless that governments, unless that government do what we want, we're going to. no, they're not saying that, paul. they're just quietly walking out. i've said on this show, i've said on this show many times when people at the other end of the scale do

that. mark, when a trade unionist in the public sector goes on strike and says, actually, because of the cost of living, i need more wages. and if you don't give them to me, i'm going to take strike action. they're always condemned as holding the country to ransom. but the people at the top who have got an enormous amount of wealth whenever they threaten to disrupt the company, hang on. no, let me finish and to disrupt to and disrupt and to disrupt the economy. you say we have to indulge these people. they're leaving the country. i'm not saying we have to give these people what they want. they're the most important people. fortunately we don't. if every rich person, mark fell under a bus tomorrow, society in britain would still function because the people teaching the kids in the schools, the people sweeping the roads, the people driving the buses, the people walking the streets. yeah, but hang on. police officers walking the beat will still be doing their productive. every public sector worker fell under a bus. tomorrow society becomes . tomorrow society becomes. neither of those are going to happen. there's not that many buses that people can fall unden buses that people can fall under. i'm explaining the difference between the value of people in society. we agree that we would like more millionaires and billionaires in britain, not fewer. no, i don't want i don't

want more billionaires. you don't want more billionaires or billionaires. you don't want elon musk to come over and open factories. i don't want a you don't want millionaires to stay here. by the way, when the millionaires when the millionaires when the millionaires leave, they're not holding anybody to ransom. i'm not. they're just leaving. i'm not. they're just leaving. i'm not. they're just leaving. i'm not. the trade unions go on strike. they want more of my money. no millionaire has ever left this country and demanded more of my money. so. but you presumably. then, mark, you don't use public services. you don't use public services. you don't use public services. you don't use the roads. you never use. you don't use the roads. you've never used your gp surgery. you expect people should be able to leave the country voluntarily. i'm not saying people shouldn't be able to leave the country, but my point is this is going to affect your tax burden. let them go. if the your tax your tax receipts are going to fall. if the rich were actually if the rich are to prepared say to democratically elected governments, unless you do what we want, then we will up sticks and leave , then you've sticks and leave, then you've got two choices as a government. you say actually , we need to you say actually, we need to indulge these people because we want their taxes. or you say, actually, we cannot be held to

ransom in that way. we want to. we want to create a fairer society. we want to rebalance the economy in favour of working people. we want to see redistribution of wealth and if that means that some of these people are going to have to go, then we'll go. there's no ransom. we survived before they came along. we will survive. we will survive. but if we could attract more millionaires and billionaires to these shores, then everything they want, but not everything they want to make it a track. i want more billionaires to come to britain and then we can tax them. not punitively, but reasonably . then punitively, but reasonably. then we'll have more in the public accounts and then we can actually do better and it will all trickle down to trickle down. it's literally confiscation. that's what tax is. if you're earning a million pounds a year, we will tax you near as dammit half of it. it's not trickle down. it goes straight to your socialist government. these thatcherite arguments , these kind of reagan arguments, these kind of reagan tax reaganomics, that it's all about the supply side. it's all about the supply side. it's all about it's about tax revenue. it's all it's all about encouraging businesses. and it's all it's all about giving rich

people effectively what they want, rolling back what they want, rolling back what they want, rolling back the frontiers of the state or letting people get rich. people don't want to hand over half of their income. it doesn't work. it didn't work in the uk. in the end. so it didn't work in america. so what are you saying to the top 1% of earners who, as michelle points out, contribute 30% of income tax receipts? so you can say thank you. well, in absolute terms, of course i'm not suggesting thanks would be nice. i'm not suggesting that that's a trifling amount. but in terms of their thank you. thank you for your great contribution to society, in terms of thank you for all the doctors and nurses and teachers you pay for. thank you for all the welfare you pay of their in terms of their overall wealth. actually, it's not a huge amount that they're paying not a huge amount that they're paying out of their a third and they are still as, as bad as they are still as, as bad as they are still not billionaires. the top 1% of earners fine. but as billionaires what would be nice or millionaires? they are still millionaires. they are people earning, say 200 grand a yeah people earning, say 200 grand a year. and i think there is plenty of scope when you look at the wealth that is within the country and the fact that it's concentrated in too few hands, i

think there's plenty of scope for saying, actually, we could raise. do you think we should offer them a bit of thanks for their huge contribution to the pubuc their huge contribution to the public exchequer? why would why would we thank a millionaire or a billionaire, not a millionaire or billionaire for paying his or her taxes? what would you thank? a cleaner on the minimum wage? yes, i do right. i always thank a cleaner once they've cleaned the office. yeah, that's fine, but that's fine. i'm willing to thank a billionaire, but in terms of in terms of bangs for your bucks, if you're earning big money here, not only are you probably helping the economy through what you're doing, you are contributing enormously to the welfare state, the nhs, the education system . education system. >> shapps into this, i want to bnng >> shapps into this, i want to bring some stats about the average public spend across the uk. per head is 12,500 pounds, right? so for each and every one of us, that's the average public spending someone on on a salary of, let's just say about roughly about £37,000, they pay about seven or so thousand pounds. so they're not washing their face, they're not washing their face, they're not washing their face, they're not paying, they're not putting into the system what they're receiving. someone that earns about 150 grand spends

about £60,000 on tax. so they're paying about £60,000 on tax. so they're paying for about five people. so your worker on £150 is paying their way of five individuals. and you've got to be realistic about this poll. that person is probably going to privately educate their children. they're probably going to have private health when you start earning more money. so let's just say you're on about, i don't know, 350. i'm just picking figures out my figure. you get not a penny personal allowance. so you don't you're not allowed to earn a penny tax free. you lose child benefit. you get no tax, no child benefit. you get no free childcare. your pension amount. when it comes to tax benefits becomes so negligible it's laughable. i don't want how much more do you think that those people i don't should have to pay-7 pay? >> i'm not pay-7 >> i'm not arguing that we should confiscate the entire wealth of those people. i'm simply saying that when you look at the wealth and income divide in this country, and you look at where wealth is concentrated, and you actually look at the fact that we are still a rich

country, but it's in the wealth is in too few hands. my argument is in too few hands. my argument is that there's more scope for taking some more from the very rich within society. can i just say this as well? >> 150 grand there or there about paying the way of about five people? how much more do you expect them to not pick up the tab for? >> but it's not just about individuals. it's about things like the banks that have made record profits over the last couple of years out of the interest rate rises, record unexpected profits. there's clearly, i think , an clearly, i think, an indisputable case for a windfall tax on the banks for their unexpected excess profits , as unexpected excess profits, as well as a wealth tax nonsense. there's a there's a case for equalising capital gains tax. there's a case for getting there's already a tax on profits. paul. what to income tax rates i mean give me a break and perhaps even more perfectly sensible i need to i need to go to break. >> i'm over a minute over my time. but anyone right. >> in fact, exemption on financial services come back to you about this lunacy that people say about equalising capital gains and income tax. >> i can't control myself. we'll do it in to see you in two.

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry , and i'm with you until dewberry, and i'm with you until 7:00 tonight. mark littlewood has just been sharing with me what he's going to see at the cinema tonight. we'll keep it a secret. look, let's just return to paul embery. he's going on about equalising capital gains and income tax. go on. paul, what are you saying? before the break? >> i was just saying that i think it's a reasonable proposal, which i think the government are possibly entertaining. and now keir starmer has never struck me as an economic radical in any sense, nor rachel reeves. so if theyif sense, nor rachel reeves. so if they if they are entertaining it, then you can probably accept that it's a fairly moderate, reasonable idea. >> no, i don't accept that. >> no, i don't accept that. >> i think it's absurd to say that when you've got assets, you dispose of those assets and you know the capital gains tax

should be equalised to income tax. this is just crazy. it's not radical. it's just of course it's because you're overly libertarian. no but you believe in tax. you might as well say that cigarettes should be taxed the same as alcohol should be taxed the same as food should be taxed the same as food should be taxed the same as food should be taxed the same as fuel should be taxed the same as fuel should be taxed the same as fuel should be taxed the same as inheritance. these are different things. you don't need to apply the same tax rate to all human activity. these are different things . the these are different things. the tobacco tax and alcohol tax are not the same and there is no case to equalise them. there's no reason it would not be radical to equalise them. it would be stupid. there's no reason. there's no reason why you should not equalise capital gains tax because they are different things. is there any reason why you shouldn't equalise tobacco and alcohol tax different in terms of , you know, different in terms of, you know, getting money from an asset or in terms of income tax, it's not unrwa. so would you equalise tobacco and alcohol tax and fuel duty because they're two different things to say. oh by definition. therefore petrol, alcohol and tobacco should all

be taxed at the same rate. no i'm not necessarily making. all right. so differences i'm not saying because capital gains tax is equalised to income tax. therefore there's a case for every single product. but what capital gains and income are different things in the same way? the truth is alcohol and tobacco probably don't believe in the principle of taxation at all. of course they do. okay, so what do you what do you do? you believe in a flat rate tax? 10% or something that everybody at the top plays exactly the same as the road sweeper? or do you do you believe in a progressive taxation system? i believe in a proportional with. i believe in a proportional taxation system. do you believe in a progressive? i also think you should probably tax things that are bad rather than good. do you believe in a progressive taxation where people who are richer pay a greater proportion of tax? partly, but that's only because ihave partly, but that's only because i have an income threshold at the bottom. i reckon i reckon if you earn ten times as much as me, you should pay about ten times as much in income tax. now i'm not talking, not 100 times, i'm not talking, not 100 times, i'm not talking about absolute terms. i'm talking about in terms. i'm talking about in terms of the percentage, the percentage. so for example, i just told you, do you believe do you believe there should be a

top higher rate of tax for people with higher. no, i prefer a flat rate, but i but i would give you a baseline of so there you go. so the cat's out of the bag. you think that the road sweeper should pay exactly the same flat rate of tax as the millionaires? no it's not. when you say flat rate is proportional. sitting in his sitting in his yacht and benefiting from its proportional. if i earn ten times as much as you, i should pay times as much as you, i should pay ten times as much income tax. you've got a million times as much income tax. you think the road sweeper should pay less income tax? you're talking the bloke on his yacht. you're talking in absolute terms. the 10% of a road sweeper's income. yeah.i 10% of a road sweeper's income. yeah. i don't think you can just take more and more and more from the rich is far more than 10%. not in absolute terms, of course, but in terms of the effect on that individual is far more. but as michel has already pointed out, we are multi—millionaires. michelle has already pointed out we've got a government that spends 12,500 pounds per person to mitigate that. they should pay exactly the same. no, no, i think they should pay a fraction of what millionaires pay. >> let me return to this point that i want to pull you up on, because i think it's absurd what

you're saying. you're suggesting that people pay the same amount of tax on capital assets and those gains as what they do on income. you are completely overlooking two fundamental reasons why i think this is absurd. number one, people are buying assets on purse taxed money, so they vent their cash. they've paid their tax and then off they go and invest it. so they've already been taxed on that cash point. 1.2 there's an element of risk attached. so when you go to work you know if you're on let's say you earn 1140 odd an hour, you know, if you go do two hours, you're going to get twice your amount of hourly wage. it's in your bank. there's no risk attached whatsoever when you invest and speculate on assets, they can go up and they can go down. and what you're doing is taking a chance. and as an as an economy, as a sensible economy, we need people to take risks . we need people to take risks. we need people to take risks. we need people to take risks. we need people to make investments, and we need people to believe and desire the growth of assets, businesses and so on and so forth. when you start then trying to equalise these tax , trying to equalise these tax, you disincentivize the mindset

to take risks and create investments that are absurd, that there's a nought percent tax on gambling, by the way, 0%. >> exactly. the argument that you've made there in terms of tax acting as a disincentive could be made, could be made in principle against the very idea of taxation at all. how are you going to incentivise you could say you could say, actually we should have no taxation in the country. it should be the law. >> don't give me silly arguments because that's a strawman strawman. >> i'm simply saying i'm simply making the point, michel, that the argument that you made there in terms of disincentivizing people is an argument against having taxation at all. no, it's not, and it's what you're saying. so you accept, you accept taxation, but you're also making an argument against capital gains tax as a principle. so you're not just you're not just against no, i am not. okay. so you're in favour of capital gains tax. i am in favour. >> you're just opposed to it being the same as income tax. i am in favour of. if you make gains, then you pay an element of tax. i am wholly against that persons making a risk. >> and so you think gambling

winnings should be taxed like income tax? correct? it depends. if a millionaire wins a race at the grand national, they should be taxed 45% on their winnings. it depends how much they win. but you should be like income tax. you're saying equalise it 45% goes to the government. if someone i've got to say because i'm over my time again, i need to open dewberry tavern because trust me, everyone, i need a dnnk trust me, everyone, i need a drink tonight. >> i've got to say this. all of you people, paul, all of you guys that obsess and you fantasise about all of these rich people paying more money. you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself what kind of country you want to live in. because when you de—incentivize investment, paul, i've just told you that someone on £150,000 is subsidising approximately six people when it comes to public spending. i mean, if you think that's fair, anneliese give your head a wobble. and i'm telling you, ladies and gents, trust me on this. if you want to de—incentivize people taking risk investing things and trying to create growth in this economy, i warn you now, be very careful what you wish for and time will tell as to whether or not i'm right or whether it's

paul that is right. we'll see you in two. thank goodness my bar will be open

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry alongside me, mark littlewood and paul embery. look, it's that time of the night. thank goodness it's come round, dewsbury tavern is open, so cheers to each and every one of you at home. and to my panellists here. happy weekend everybody. >> you've paid your tax on that pi'osecco. >> prosecco. >> well i can tell you now, who's this? louise has been in touch saying, michelle, you're sitting there with millions in the bank. you're nothing but a mouthpiece. i can assure you , mouthpiece. i can assure you, louise. well, look anyway, right. my bank balance, i can assure you, is irrelevant. i believe in fairness . i believe believe in fairness. i believe in people just not being ridiculously deluded when it comes to tax. because everyone

pushing for all of this extra tax and extra tax, you will be sitting there crying when it goes the opposite way and you've got nothing left to tax, and you'll all be wondering what went wrong. many people getting in touch about you. paul embery, alvin says that paul is very good when it comes to topics like trans and brexit, but is an absolute commie nutter when it comes to the economy, that's a little bit harsh, isn't it? lots of people enjoying. chris says he's enjoying the robust argument this evening. you're all very welcome tonight. look, there's a pride festival that's come under some kind of backlash. i can tell you now, because one of the stalls, it had a toss, a milkshake at nigel farage game. look at this. i've got it on the screen. let's cut to the chase. is this okay? i mean, people obviously think it's hilarious and taking part in it. >> your thoughts? yeah, it is. okay, look, i quite like nigel farage and it's obviously a bunch of lefties having a go at him. but i say fair enough. what i hate in society is that we all get traumatised and victimised

about what looks like a fairground game. what i would say, however, as long as there's a right wing festival in which we can, i don't know, kick an effigy of diane abbott or you know, throw some coconuts at a picture of jeremy corbyn. as long as the lefties won't get agonised about that , then come agonised about that, then come one, come all. bear in mind on the 5th of november, every year, we burn an effigy of guy fawkes, a catholic revolutionary. well, it still burns an effigy of guy fawkes . you need to get out. fawkes. you need to get out. more happens out in the sticks. michelle yeah? you've got too many millions in your bank account in central london. that's what happens in the sticks. >> people to light sodomy over there. >> it doesn't seem to me this was extreme violence. it's a coconut . and i really hope that coconut. and i really hope that farage supporters don't sort of 9°, farage supporters don't sort of go, oh my god, it's all terrible. but similarly it should be okay to use effigies of left wing politicians and do the same. >> so no double standards. what do you say, paul? >> yeah, i tend to agree. actually, i can't get terribly worked up about the thing that's happening at the pride festival . happening at the pride festival. but, you know, i can't imagine

that the same people would be happy if it were another politician. you know, diane abbott or angela rayner or something like that. i would imagine jess phillips, i would imagine jess phillips, i would imagine she wouldn't be happy. phillips. yeah, we probably wouldn't hear the last of it, and there does seem to be, i think, a certain hypocrisy when it comes to certain politicians. if you see nigel farage accosted on the street, or jacob rees—mogg, there are too many people on my side of politics who are willing to turn a blind eye to that and say, well, they've asked for it. you know, it's the equivalent of the she was wearing a miniskirt argument. you know, they've asked for it because, you know, they're provocative politicians. whereas if it was to happen to somebody else, the sort of people that we've mentioned, there would be an outcry over it. so similarly, paul, i'm a bit worried that nigel farage, i mean, he's given a sensible statement, but i'm a bit worried that folk on the right are going to take umbrage at this. just water off a duck's back. that's what it should be. there is a danger that people do say, yeah,

everybody's a victim and it's absolutely wrong. and they play that game. they get into play in that game. they get into play in that game, they should stand aboveit that game, they should stand above it and say, actually, we're not worked up about this, but don't don't be hypocrites when it happens to somebody on your side. completely. right. >> richard's been in touch saying you're all talking about raising taxes, but taxing people more is not the answer. it's cutting government spending . cutting government spending. yeah, well, there you go. look, there's lots more. we could say tonight. that would be now. i shall leave it there. he's got to get a cinema. he's watching marvel. right. have a good weekend, everyone. we'll be back on monday nights. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . solar sponsors of weather on. gb. news >> good evening. welcome to your latest weather update from the met office here on gb. news. signs of some hotter weather early next week but still tomorrow morning a fresh start with some sunshine and there will be more heavy showers developing through the day in places. but the showers we've seen today they're tending to

fade away. so for most it's going to be a dry evening. a dry night with lengthy clear spells. we'll keep some showers going near the south—west of scotland, and it could turn a bit heavier that rain as we head towards dawn time. as we head towards dawn, temperatures will dip to down single figures in some rural spots. towns and cities 10 to 12. so a little bit fresher than recent mornings, but generally a fine and sunny start . generally a fine and sunny start. a drier day tomorrow compared to today. across scotland. still a few showers in the far north—west, but i suspect quite a bit of sunshine across central and northern scotland. a wet start though in this zone the far south of scotland , northwest far south of scotland, northwest england some heavy bursts of rain, particularly across the lakes. early doors not great on parts of the m6 here. a few scattered showers for wales, but most of england and wales also starting dry, fine and sunny. there will be a few showers for northern ireland, but again here. likely to be a drier day tomorrow compared to today, so not as many showers around. we will see more showers developing through the day over wales, northern england parts of the midlands could catch a rumble of

thunder . midlands could catch a rumble of thunder. flash of lightning to not too many showers for east anglia in the southeast. most places here dry and as i mentioned, a drier day for much of scotland. slightly warmer to edinburgh up to 21. in the sunshine across the southeast 24, maybe 25, but probably feeling cooler across northern england and wales with more cloud and more showers . but the cloud and more showers. but the showers disappear overnight and sunday looks like a cracking day. can't completely rule out a shower over the northern isles, where there'll be a bit more of a breeze. but generally light winds, plenty of blue sky, a fine summer's day on sunday and it's going to get a bit warmer and signs of things also hotting up a little bit, particularly across the south into the early part of next week . part of next week. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers, sponsors of weather on gb

>> welcome to lee anderson's real world. tonight i'm joined by stella kiddoo, who's a former labour adviser. also got theo usherwood , who's a former lbc usherwood, who's a former lbc political editor, the green goddess. she's back on the programme for the second time. we've also got phillip blonde. he's a former adviser to david cameron and top celebrity chef jameson stokes. but first, let's go to the . news. go to the. news. >> very good evening to you. it is just coming up to 7:01 and first, the top story. it's sport and the opening ceremony at the paris olympics is now underway,

featuring around 10,000 athletes.