single parent's worst nightmare. also coming up tonight, rachel reeves, she's been giving a statement you guessed it. i mean, you don't need to be a mind reader to predict what was going to happen. she basically says there's a huge black hole and we're going to have i would i would hazard a well, guess, tax rises. also, if you're used to your winter fuel allowance, bad news for you . also, an event bad news for you. also, an event took place at the weekend in trafalgar square. it was labelled far and wide by the press as being a far right protest. well, i attended and i've got to tell you, that's completely at odds with what i saw. i am sick and tired of average british people being labelled and smeared as far right. we'll cover that tonight . right. we'll cover that tonight. all that and more. but first, the 6:00 news headlines .

the 6:00 news headlines. >> michelle, thank you and good evening to you. well first let's bnng evening to you. well first let's bring you more on that breaking news from southport, where a 17 year old boy has now been arrested in connection with several stabbings in what's understood to be a children's houday understood to be a children's holiday club. at least eight people, including children, were stabbed during what witnesses have described as something out of a horror movie. one witness reported seeing 7 to 10 children with stab wounds outside the building. a large police cordon is now in place . victims have is now in place. victims have been taken to hospital. one of those alder hey children's hospital nearby has declared a major incident. people have been urged not to use it unless it's absolutely necessary . meanwhile, absolutely necessary. meanwhile, merseyside police have said the 17 year old suspect from banks, which is a small village town north—east of southport in the same county of lancashire, and they're also saying it's not being treated as terror related. the home secretary has reacted

to today's events on merseyside and she has expressed her deep concern. >> all of our thoughts will be with the family and loved ones of those who are affected. i have been in contact with the merseyside police and crime commissioner and the merseyside mayor to convey my support to the police and our thanks to the police and emergency services for their swift and courageous response. the response to this awful incident is currently unfolding and the house and the pubuc unfolding and the house and the public will be updated in due course . course. >> well, in other news today, huw edwards, the former bbc presenter, has been charged with three counts of making indecent images of children . that was images of children. that was confirmed by the metropolitan police. the offences are alleged to have taken place between december 2020 and april 2022, and relate to images shared on a whatsapp chat . now, we learned

whatsapp chat. now, we learned today that the chancellor, rachel reeves, will deliver her first budget as chancellor on the 30th of october after inheriting what she described is a £22 billion financial black hole from the conservatives. the chancellor was addressing mps in the commons all afternoon, accusing the conservatives of covering it all up . she set out covering it all up. she set out what she called the urgent and necessary work to reduce pressures on public finances by £5.5 billion this year and over £8 billion next year. the conservative party says she's trying to con the british public so she can raise taxes, but miss reeves has said the scale of the overspend is not sustainable . overspend is not sustainable. >> i'm not talking about the state of public services in the future, like the crisis in our prisons, which they have left for us to fix. i am talking about the money that they were already spending this year and had no ability to pay, for which they hid from the country. they had exhausted the reserve, and they knew that , but nobody else they knew that, but nobody else did. yet they ducked the

difficult decisions. they put party before country and they continued , and they continued to continued, and they continued to make unfunded commitments after unfunded commitment, knowing that the money was not there . that the money was not there. >> well, junior doctors have been offered a pay increase of more than 22% in a bid to end their strikes. rachel reeves confirming today that the bma, the british medical association, is putting that offer now to its members. doctors have walked off the job 11 times since 2022 and have been asking for a 35% pay rise, a high court judge today issued a warrant for the arrest of stephen yaxley—lennon, better known as tommy robinson , after known as tommy robinson, after he left the uk. it's after he breached a court order by showing a film at a protest in central london. he was arrested but released last night before allegedly leaving the country. he was due to attend a hearing today for contempt of court, but his absence led the judge to continue without him . the high

continue without him. the high court has ruled that an emergency ban on puberty blockers imposed by the previous government was lawful. the advocacy group trans actual and advocacy group trans actual and a young claimant challenged the order restricting the prescription of the medication, which suppresses the natural production of sex hormones in puberty. the ban was put in place by the now shadow health secretary, victoria atkins . her secretary, victoria atkins. her successor. wes streeting, acknowledged what he called lots of fear and anxiety around the issue , although he said he does issue, although he said he does support the ban . and we know now support the ban. and we know now six mps are to battle to become the next tory leader after nominations closed this afternoon, the former business secretary, kemi badenoch became the final tory to join the race. she's promised to revive confidence in capitalism and she joins james cleverly, robert jenrick, tom tugendhat , mel jenrick, tom tugendhat, mel stride and priti patel. the winner will be announced on the 2nd of november. that's your latest news stories for now. i'm

polly middlehurst. i'm back in an hour. see you then. >> for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . forward slash alerts. >> thank you very much for that, polly. i am michelle dewberry and i'm with you until 7:00 tonight alongside me. i've got my panel, the gb news senior political commentator nigel nelson and the co—founder of together declaration, alan miller. good evening to both of you. you're very welcome this evening, as are each and every one of you at home. wherever you're joining me tonight, you can get in touch with me all the usual ways. you can email me at gb views @gbnews. com. you can go to the website, which is gbnews.com/yoursay or of course you can go on twitter or x or whatever we're calling it, and

you can reach me there @gbnews now of course, anyone that's tuning in wanting to know the latest on that horrendous , latest on that horrendous, heartbreaking, devastating stabbing, there is going to be a press conference. the police, they're holding a press conference at 630 this evening. i'll be cutting across to that the second it starts. do not worry about that. but for now, i will talk to you about rachel reeves and the economy. of course, many people were predicting, when labour got elected, that actually what they were going to do is almost immediately turn around and say, you know what.7 we've found this massive black hole and i'm really sorry, guys, but you guessed it, taxes are going to have to rise. well, look, rachel reeves speaking today. let's listen to her. >> my arrival at the treasury three weeks ago, it became clear that there were things that i did not know. things that the party opposite covered up, covered up from the opposition, covered up from the opposition, covered up from this house. covered up from the country . the covered up from the country. the government published its plans for day to day spending in the spnng for day to day spending in the spring budget in march. but when

i arrived at the treasury on the very first day, i was alerted by officials that this was not how much the previous government expected to spend this year. the total pressures on these budgets across a range of areas was an additional £35 billion. >> i don't like to be all mystic meg and think that i've got an and some kind of weird ability to see into the future, but i mean, loads of people, including my good self, predicted that this was exactly what was going to happen. jeremy hunt, he's not having any of this, is he.7 what's having any of this, is he? what's he been saying in response? >> what he said i was in the commons while this was going on, watching what was happening, and i've never seem so angry that, he's normally got a perma smile and he was actually going red in the face during rachel reeves speech. he describes what she's saying as a cock and bull story. he says that the that she knew perfectly well how much money was out there or how little money was out there, and simply that what she was saying was not

true. now, since then, the office for budget responsibility has said that there are things there they didn't know about. so this is actually a revelation from rachel reeves, the institute for fiscal studies, which gave plenty of warnings beforehand that there was a black hole in the economy. they're saying there's money there that they weren't aware of . there that they weren't aware of. so if you were trying to balance it up, it looks as if rachel reeves has found a black hole, not a pot of money, a black hole that did exist and they didn't know about beforehand . know about beforehand. >> your thoughts, alan? >> your thoughts, alan? >> well, i'm not sure what anybody thought would have happened. we have a situation where quantitative easing has been prolific since 2008, and then we've just gone through a penod then we've just gone through a period where the whole of the economy was shut down and a monetary for printing was given out. so we had not productive capacity lockdowns , which we capacity lockdowns, which we should say the current incumbent government cheered on. they were cheerleading cheerleaders of and champions and wanted them to go for longer, faster, harder. now,

like tony blair blamed black wednesday and like margaret thatcher would look back to the days of the winter of discontent. there's always an element in which you're going to want to distance yourself and blame the previous government. but i do think it's really astonishing that no one wants to address the real black hole , address the real black hole, which is the cost of lockdowns that have incurred with us and quantitative easing alongside that. and yes, the last government utterly responsible for that. but this one, two, you know, and this whole kind of notion, i mean, when you say, yeah, the found this black hole, but not a big pot of money, i cannot help but notice that we do seem remarkably skilled at finding pots of money when it suits us. >> so sir keir starmer, for example, he will say that he will commit. i think it was 3 billion to ukraine for as long as it takes. we just found another £84 million to send to places like africa. we just found huge sums of money to give the doctors a pay rise, which is almost three times current, levels of inflation. how is that fair ?

fair? >> well, i mean, all those are different pots of money, so the money that you're talking about, the 84, 4 million that's going out to , to help other countries, out to, to help other countries, the idea is to try and try and see if we can do something to stop. migration at source. it's a very small amount of money comes out of the overseas aid budget when it comes down to ukraine, that comes out of a contingency budget. we always keep a bit in reserve for things like wars and emergencies. so that's what the ukraine money is. the douglass thing is a slightly different ball game. i mean, the question really was, one of the things that was hidden was the amount of money that the government gave the nhs because of the doctors being on strike. that was 1.7 billion. so by settling the doctors dispute, you actually you save money in the future, but yet it's going to cost. i mean, you're talking about probably, if you take all the public services together,

that's a 9,000,000,000 billion cost. but i mean, rachel reeves did have that previously built into her original proposals. >> do you agree? is that fair, then, that we should be able to fund all of these different things while simultaneously, simultaneously saying that times are really hard? >> well, i think what we need to have growth and productivity, something that's been very sluggish in britain for the last three decades. we have a situation where the labour government is saying they do want to invest in infrastructure, they don't want levelling up. they've actually scrapped the 14 new hospitals that boris had said that they're going to do with the government and other infrastructure projects, but they're promising new ones, but they're promising what it looks like. more planning people, more civil servants and bureaucrats. and i'm very concerned that we have technocrats that are tinkering around with things without a big plan that is engaged. the public really won hearts and minds to say, this is what our ten and 20 year vision is. and in order to get wealth creation for everyone and productivity, these are the ways that we're going to do it. and instead we have more

technocratic tinkering and blaming going on technocratic tinkering. >> well, the planning thing is going to be i think it's going to be the biggest challenge of the labour government. i mean, what they're talking about is not is not a low more technocrats. what they're talking about is getting rid of an awful lot of planning restrictions so they can get building again, the idea is that you'll be able to get a 300,000 homes a year . you'll be able to get a 300,000 homes a year. we'll be able to build wind farms, which we haven't been able to do before, or a lot of local people are going to object to going to object to that. >> yeah, well, the thing is that it isn't going to get rid of the problems with planning in many ways. we do need to rip up a lot of the planning, red tape and bureaucratic things that are in the way, but allocating more people that are in the planning arena to assess and evaluate, rather than getting on with significant infrastructure projects . and, you know, you can projects. and, you know, you can do wind farms, you can you can do wind farms, you can you can do wind farms, you can you can do wind farming. but the infrastructure we know that nuclear is one of the key things that needs to be done and invested in. there's also an

argument for tidal to i think this alongside having an obsession with net zero, which is only going to limit and suffocate and restrict us and is counterproductive for wealth creation and is going to impoverish us and runs the risk of blackouts means that we've got a schizophrenic approach towards both wealth creation and towards both wealth creation and towards our energy needs. >> but the idea, the idea of great british energy, which is meant to deliver, you know , the meant to deliver, you know, the sustain, the sustainable power for the future , the idea of that for the future, the idea of that is for jobs. for the future, the idea of that is forjobs. it is for the future, the idea of that is for jobs. it is for wealth creation because you're talking there about 650,000 new jobs. now, i appreciate some people lose their jobs along the way, but at least new ones are coming along and the big thing there is, and this is a jeremy hunt figure, not a labour figure, £1 trillion worth of extra business for britain, provided we start building this technology and then flogging it around the world. so there is actually a growth element that comes out of net zero. >> well, i've got to tell you, as well, so many of my viewers

are getting in touch right now . are getting in touch right now. furious. you're furious. i can feel it through the screen about winter fuel allowance. >> i'm not surprised , really. >> i'm not surprised, really. >> i'm not surprised, really. >> many people are saying that they feel cheated, that they feel, apparently, that they were promised that that was going to be protected. is that true? with the promise they weren't promised it? >> was it was going to be protected. i was a bit surprised about that. that came as the big shock of the afternoon when rachel reeves was delivering her speech, so just bring everyone up to speed with that measure in case they're not familiar with what we're talking about. what is going to happen now is that so far, pensioners were getting between 100 and £300 a year in winter, fuel allowance to help them pay for bill for extra heating, and it wasn't means tested and it wasn't means tested. so everyone got that . tested. so everyone got that. that has now been scrapped. the idea is it'll save nearly £2 billion, but it's been scrapped . billion, but it's been scrapped. what it does mean is the poorest pensioners will carry on getting it. so if you're on pension credit , on it. so if you're on pension credit, on certain it. so if you're on pension credit , on certain benefits, you credit, on certain benefits, you will carry on getting that

money. the important thing is to hear him now i can hear people now saying, tell me if i'm wrong . now saying, tell me if i'm wrong. >> they'll say, hang on a second, i've paid into this government's pot and the government's pot and the government doesn't have a pot anyway. it's our money. it's our taxpayers money. so anyway , so taxpayers money. so anyway, so these people, a lot of pensioners will say, i've worked my entire life, i've made all my contributions, i've put into the system, and now i'm a pensioner. i should be receiving out of the system. they will argue, why should i, as someone that's worked, maybe got a private pension or whatever, not be entitled to that support when someone else who perhaps hasn't worked or perhaps hasn't contributed will be entitled to it? >> well , it? >> well, pensions are are something that people did contribute to. whether you've got a workplace pension or a state pension that's a bit different. >> this i'm on about the winter fuel. >> this is a handout. this wasn't something anyone contributed to. >> so this was they will feel purely a they will feel why are working pensioners or people that did work their whole lives. and then because we're all told. but why should rich pensioners have it. >> i mean i know a pensioner for

instance, who says it's his claret fund. he doesn't spend it on heating or anything like that. he spends it on wine. now the taxpayer shouldn't be subsidising that. >> we're constantly told, and too many people don't heed the advice, actually. but we're constantly told work hard, do well for yourself , and so constantly told work hard, do well for yourself, and so on and so forth. when people seem to do well for themselves in this country, they seem to be penalised . on the other side of penalised. on the other side of the fence. when you've got people that have never worked a day in their life, quite frankly, the amount of handouts that they receive is eye—watering and quite frustrating to other people. >> well, i mean that i'm not suggesting this won't come with some pain, and i think that that pension, there will be pensions, especially at the marginal level, who aren't on tax credits or benefits but still don't have have a very high income. i'm sure they're going to be very upset about it, especially you, especially as there's going to be an increase in £200 in the energy cap at the end of the year. yeah >> well, let me know your thoughts. there's a lot i want to talk to you about. you'll be, of course, familiar with the horrendous situation that has

unfolded in relation to the stabbing today. i can tell you now there's going to be a police conference at 630 this evening. after the break, we will be returning to that issue. so do not go anywhere. i also want to talk to you about the event in trafalgar square at the weekend as well. so—called far right, according to many in the media. see in two.

hello everybody. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company until 7:00 tonight alongside with my panel. just been having a very interesting debate there because i was basically saying, i'm fed up with bernard or people receiving absolutely everything when working. people seem to be getting less and less and less, quite strong reactions from a panel quite strong reactions from a panel. i perhaps addressed that in more detail, but for now i've got the senior political commentator nigel nelson, and the co—founder of the together declaration, alan miller. now i must switch to what i would

regard as the biggest story of the day. anybody? who is a parent, you don't even need to be a parent, actually, to be moved by this story. the horrendous situation about the stabbings over in southport. horrendous situation about the stabbings over in southport . let stabbings over in southport. let me cross live to our reporter, will hollis, who is live on the scene. there's a press conference coming up as well. i will tell you all at 630. you will tell you all at 630. you will not miss a second of that. i will be cutting straight to that the moment it happens. but for now, will. hello. bring us up to speed with what we know so far. >> yes, michelle will. most people will know southport for being a famous seaside town where people come to make good memories and enjoy the bright and beautiful weather. but today, here on hart street, it's a much darker thing that southport is becoming known for here. about 300m away from where i'm standing, where there's a barrier and the country's media there was the scene of a really tragic and horrific incident.

what was first called as a stabbing at about midday lunch time. police coming down here to southport quickly became multiple stabbings, and it wasn't long before we started to hear that it was children who were involved. now we know from the reports that have been coming out as the day has progressed that eight people were taken to hospitals and of the three hospitals that they were taken to, one of them was alder hey, which treats specifically children. and shortly after we heard that the hospital declared a major incident. and they're urging parents who do have sick children to only bring them to the hospital if it is an emergency . that's the scale of emergency. that's the scale of what we're talking about here. now. not too long ago, we heard from merseyside police that a 17 year old from the banks area was arrested, and in a statement they said that, merseyside police arrested a 17 year old

male and that they are not looking for anybody else. now he remains in custody and is going to be questioned about the incident and as enquiries are ongoing, they're trying to establish the motive for this tragic incident . one thing that tragic incident. one thing that they are making clear, though, police here in merseyside is that they do not think that this is terror related. it's not being treated as if this is a terror incident. now, we know that this was a knife attack. where was it a knife attack? well, from what we've been hearing, it was a start of the summer holidays dance class where children were gathering together, primary school aged children. so reasonably between the ages of four and 11. and that's really where this incident was centred. we've seen videos on social media and heard from eyewitnesses. the scale of the devastation, children being pulled out of buildings with all sorts of terrible things having happened to them. we are waiting on more information though, from

merseyside police as well as the local ambulance service, north west ambulance, as well as merseyside fire and rescue service. and in just a few moments time, maybe five minutes, we will be crossing over to that press conference where we can probably learn quite a little bit more about what's happened here today. >> well, thank you very much for that , ladies >> well, thank you very much for that, ladies and gents at home as well as just mentioned , that as well as just mentioned, that press conference by the police will be starting imminently. 630 is the time that we have been given. we're watching that room as we speak, and i promise you, we will be going straight to, in fact, you know what? let's let you look at that room as well. and what i'm going to do is i'm going to talk over, i think, as a parent, and i just mentioned earlier, you don't even need to be a parent. this story stopped me in my tracks. the thought that anybody, can hurt children, tiny, innocent, vulnerable children in this way is absolutely devastating. so this is the room that you can see now. we are awaiting that press

conference from merseyside police. i will stop talking the second someone takes the microphone, you will not miss a second. but for now, alan miller, your thoughts? >> well, it's absolutely terrible and tragic and disgusting , i it would be useful disgusting, i it would be useful for to us understand the actual specifics of the information, we have seen terrible attacks with knives and other things. we've seen terror attacks just recently. only a week ago, we saw that an army officer was bludgeoned and stabbed outside the barracks. it didn't get that much attention . and sometimes much attention. and sometimes people talk about mental health, but there's also political reasons or nihilistic reasons. there's terror reasons why people have done it. we've seen it with the terror attacks at london bridge and manchester arena and across britain, nihilist attacks on our way of life. disgusting, and, you know, rigby and others, i'm very concerned by it. i think it's

absolutely horrific. but it is important to understand the actual details of what's happened from the police. >> yeah, well, i wonder how much detail we will get in. just a couple of minutes time. nigel nelson. >> yeah, i mean, the knife crime has become an epidemic. i mean, it's gone up 27,000 incidents in 2015, and we're now we've now hit 49,000. the only thing i think a thing that i suppose some succour we can take from this is they're not guns in the united states . that because of united states. that because of because of lax gun control, when somebody goes on the rampage , an somebody goes on the rampage, an awful lot more people, awful lot of people get killed less, fewer people get get killed by knives. but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do more about them. like what? well, what we start with, with is the last government was trying to ban zombie knives. they tried 16 times and failed. the next government has promised to actually do that . so it's not actually do that. so it's not just just banning the sale of those knives. it's a matter of getting it, getting the people

who sell them especially well online. this is how it happens. getting those people and prosecuting them. the other thing you need to do is take over from the charitable sector, where charities try and mentor young people who might get involved in knife crime, to try and keep them out of knife crime. there is a project coming up called young futures . the up called young futures. the idea of that is mentoring. it's actually catching people even when they've been stabbed in a and e with youth workers and seeing if there's some way you can then channel them out of that life of a criminality which could end that life. >> i've got to say. and to some people they might, feel that my view is unacceptable. but i want more stop and search on the streets of britain, don't get me wrong, i want it to be done in a respectful way. i'm not. i'm very uncomfortable , actually, very uncomfortable, actually, when i've seen people just get, like, kind of dressed down in front of everyone. i don't really like it. i don't know how we could do it. i don't know,

maybe have, like, a pop up, you know, what do you call it? like a p0p up know, what do you call it? like a pop up thing screen or something? i don't know, so try and do it with as much dignity as possible. but i would like to see more stop and searches these people. i've seen so many people, when you know, you follow these stories of knife attacks and all the rest of it, you see the size of these knives. we're not talking about a potato peeler. we're talking about machetes. >> but these are these are the zombie knives we're talking about. >> but you can't even. how can people can't even walk properly? i imagine with those things tucked in their pants, i want more stop and search. and the minute you say this, people, campaigners and activists immediately start crying, talking about it disproportionately affecting people and so on and so forth. i don't want anyone to be unfairly targeted, but more than that, my desire is i want less people getting hacked and stabbed and slashed. i'm with you. >> i'm with you on stop and search. >> so would you have more of it? >> so would you have more of it? >> yes. i'm quite happy with stop and search. but what you also need is more police officers to do it. now we've got another 13,000 hopefully coming on board. yvette cooper has

promised them, but we haven't got them yet. but you need. you need the number of officers there to be able to do it. >> where are you on? stop and search. >> yeah, i think we need more stop and search. but i think the police are in a very difficult position because on the one hand, you've got the hendon training college and chief inspectors telling them there's all these things they can't do. they mustn't. they have to have equality, diversity and inclusion. they mustn't be racist or anything else. target people and no one wants them to be racist. but at the same time, there are issues that need to be addressed at an enormous knife problem in scotland. it got resolved in many ways because of the ways they dealt with it. it's an all round package . it's an all round package. there's a reason why young children and young adults have got a lot of knives, and it's to do with what's going on with gangs and drugs, and that needs to be addressed in that context. also to do with mentors, also to do with family breakdown, also to do with not enough youth clubs and other activities, also to do with money and opportunities and apprenticeships and standards and adult authority. and that's why we need a robust approach,

not one where we're constantly patronising younger people, where we're sort of elevating things that are problematic and not maintaining our virtues. and values. and that's really essential as well. and i think that all of those things together contribute to these issues . issues. >> it is going back to being tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime. so it is both those things trying to deal with, trying to stop people getting involved in knife crime in the first place, stamping down hard on those who who do commit crime crimes with knives, and then this extra bit, which is how you actually do the stop and search because, i mean, i think we, the three of us seem to agree stop and search works. the question is how you target people now , clearly there are people now, clearly there are certain people who carry knives and certain people who don't. the police kind of know which ones they are. so i'm not too worried about getting the proportionality right. it doesn't have to be racist or anything like that. it just means that the police must use their eyes, ears and intelligent. >> but then a lot of people,

particularly, i would say, like you've got activists that would work on behalf of the black community, and they would say that young black boys are disproportionately targeted and they would push back and say that that's wrong and that they would reject additional stop and search because of that. >> well, what the police say is that young black boys disproportionately carry more knives. so that's where that we've had. we've had that problem all the way through, that the police have an idea about the especially if they are neighbourhood officers who know their areas, they will know the kind of people who will be carrying a knife . carrying a knife. >> and by the way, anyone that's just tuning in, i just want to mention, obviously, the horrendous, heartbreaking, devastating scenes that we've heard about unfolding, in southport there, the stabbings, what you're seeing on your screen right now that is live there, we're waiting for merseyside police. they are going to be giving a press conference any second now, so i'm just having a more broader conversation about the

situation, about knife crime and how on earth we stop this. now we're talking about youth clubs and this and that and the other. and by the way, i'm not speculating about anyone involved in this southport, situation because we don't know the details yet. hopefully we'll get some more details in a minute. i'm broadening this conversation out. what about parents? where are the parents in all this? because if your child is possesses a machete or swords , how are you not like, swords, how are you not like, how do you not? what's your role as a parent? i'm looking at you. i'm not suggesting your kids are doing that, but no, but i mean, they're grown up now, so i don't think they're carrying anything like that, >> nor did they when they were younger. yes, of course, the parents have a role. but the trouble is, the kids we're talking about probably don't have decent parents. so they are running pretty wild in the first place. i think that as alan mentioned, getting involved in drug gangs where a lot of this is actually going on. so the parents really probably aren't the answer to this one, because a good parent won't let their child have one of these zombie

knives or a machete or something like that, a bad parent won't care. >> the other thing is the amount of money that's involved in all of money that's involved in all of this is that suddenly you can get a lot of money. you get people that are being groomed. these children are being groomed by adult criminals and old style gangsters, not to like, create this mystical past, but they wouldn't use children in that context. this is grooming. we need to call it what it is. it's exploiting children because they get less, impact on them. they can do things under the age of 16, under the age of 14, to down the ages of eight. so a 15 year old was just killed in hackney last week. boys, primarily boys, were all involved in this. but the issue of the so—called war on drugs needs to be addressed as well. there's a reason why in the black market economy, so much money can be made. it's used to exploit people to traffic, people with the arms trade, with terrorism and with drugs. and if we don't get to gnps drugs. and if we don't get to grips with this and deal with it, and that could well mean decriminalising it, it could

mean legalising it. it could mean legalising it. it could mean realising what drugs so you get drugs. yes. so you get. >> so you're telling me you want to legalise heroin. >> so if you look at like with prohibition and alcohol and you look at why the mob became so big in america and killings were there, and al capone, it was as a consequence of trying to prohibit something that was always going to be done in a similar context. where has the war on drugs got us? look at the border with mexico and america. look at the amount of deaths and the war states, the narco states. let's have a grown up assessment of it. let's say that there can be treatment centres. let's have a moral approach to encouraging with families and others not to do that. let's give people reasons to be engagedin give people reasons to be engaged in work and be proud of things . but engaged in work and be proud of things. but let's also recognise that humans have always experimented. there's all types of drugs, by the way, and that you can raise treasury money from it. you can actually make sure that you don't have these gangs dealing with it. you can have, like we saw with hiv and syringes one minute. it was a terrible thing that couldn't be

discussed. and another minute you have a harm reduction approach. i'm saying let's do a cost benefit analysis. let's talk about our values . let's do talk about our values. let's do it democratically with everyone and have a rather than repeating the same platitudes when people are getting killed and saying, what do we do? what do we do? i happen to have worked with some people who used to be involved in those sorts of things. when my role in nightlife and others that have come out and have set up initiatives for ex—offenders , up initiatives for ex—offenders, for young people to do, getting them involved in music, in sport and other things that have been involved in that kind of thing. you have to have a very hard faced , honest, pragmatic faced, honest, pragmatic attitude and something to inspire people with and recognise why these things are going on. >> well, i'm with you on this one that i think that you think heroin should be legalised as well. i think it should be looked at. i think i think what alan was saying is absolutely right that , the police say it right that, the police say it themselves, that they, they cannot control it as a criminal justice problem. the only way we can deal with it as a public health problem, what i would say

then is there's a lot we don't know about it. so i'd like to see a royal commission set up. we haven't had one since 1999, but a proper independent royal commission to look at. what about the advantages and disadvantages of decriminalising or legalising drugs. and if you legalise them, you tax them. >> goodness me. you see, i've had the grave misfortune, of knowing people that were heroin users. me too. i know people that have very sadly died because of heroin use. i think it is an awful, because of heroin use. i think it is an awful , awful, soul it is an awful, awful, soul destroying life destroying, family destroying drug. the fact that it was criminal, did it make any difference at all to them getting hold of it? >> certainly. i think if it was legal then it would make it much easier to access. >> and i would worry that you're going to see an expansion of use. well, you might kind of drugs. >> well you might, but you might not. i mean, let's remember that

there's all sorts of drugs, ecstasy, cocaine, weed, many of those things are all things that are habitually used or in lifestyle choices. there's an argument that when it's legal and controlled by the state and donein and controlled by the state and done in the ways other things like alcohol and coffee and tobacco are done, that you can regulate things. there's also an argument that, like with knives and like with guns, as it happens, even though they're not legal in britain, the people that you don't want to have them often are the ones that have got them, that those things are going to happen, but they're going to happen, but they're going to happen, but they're going to also encourage other crime. they're going to encourage theft and burglary, but you're going to criminalise a range of people. and it also what happens is that we now have a lot of people in prison for non—violent drug taking. they're in prison. we have a real problem with the prisons and the amount of people in there that would also have a massive impact on that. and at the same time, you'd want to make a moral case and you'd want to argue for in the same way, you know, the points about family, the points about values, the points about having something to believe in, in society, civic values . it's in society, civic values. it's not one thing on its own. it's a

combination of all these things that need to be presented. >> yeah. no, i agree with that. yeah. >> just to in case anyone is tuning in for the first time, i just want to let you know that what you're seeing on our screen, that is the live scene. they're now in southport. we're waiting for merseyside police to give a live statement. they're updating us about the horrific, horrendous situation that we saw unfold. it makes even just the mere thought of it. it's bringing me out in chills. it's absolutely horrific. just to remind you about what we already know so far . the police were know so far. the police were called to a major incident in southport, which is just kind of north of liverpool. in case you're not familiar with that. just before midday today, multiple patients have been treated. and what we do know, and this is the thing i mean, it just sickens me beyond words. everybody, what we do know, is that the event that these people were partaking in was apparently a taylor swift themed yoga class

for children in school years 2 to 6. so just to give you context there, that will be children aged between six and 11 years old. i mean, we know that the arrested, a 17 year old, on this, issue, many people getting in touch saying, oh, here we go, this person is 17. and as a result, they're saying that they feel that no information will be made available because this person is essentially legally a child and not an adult. is that reasonable to assume? >> yes it is. yes. i mean , what >> yes it is. yes. i mean, what the i think what the police will tell us about is, is how the incident unfolded, but they probably won't tell us anything about the perpetrator, >> well, i'm telling you, we're keeping this shot open on the screen so that, you know, the second, this progresses, we will be returning to it. i'm just broadening that conversation out now because knife crime does seem to be, it seems to be affecting so many different corners and places within the uk , corners and places within the uk, looking at what on earth do you actually do to tackle it,

talking about things like decriminalising drugs, would that remove some of this kind of gang culture and people wandering around the streets with knives ? just to be clear, with knives? just to be clear, i'm not suggesting that that is what's happened in this instance. we don't know. we're waiting for that information. so i'm not, speculating about that. tom, on the website says, michelle, you're clearly very upset about this incident. i am heartbroken about this incident as any parent or sane minded person would be, if you cannot send your child to a taylor swift themed class for them to enjoy six years old, 11 years old, then what on earth is our society coming to and broken hearted about it? tom i'm absolutely furious about it as well . it absolutely furious about it as well. it makes me fearful as a parent and it just makes me step back and ask the question. the broader question about what on earth is this society becoming? we're talking and we're expanding the conversation, as it's quite right to do in the absence of facts. at this moment

in time, we're expanding that conversation about the war on drugs and so on and so forth. and i'm sorry, but i am going to also raise another aspect. and to be clear, i'm not suggesting that this was the motive here. but what about all of this immigration illegal immigration into this country? we are seemingly importing a lot of people that don't have the same values as many of us. we often import people that don't value women , for example, in the same women, for example, in the same way that many other people do. and that is often a factor that's never really, truly discussed. what do you think to that, nigel? and to just be clear, i am not speculating that thatis clear, i am not speculating that that is anything to do with this situation. i'm just having a broader conversation. nigel, your thoughts? >> yeah. sorry, michelle, i think that's rubbish. what's rubbish? the idea that migration is , is part of this problem. is, is part of this problem. this problem is a home grown one and has to be dealt with. home grown? yeah some of the 1 or 2 people who were coming across will be criminals, but there isn't any evidence that there is mass criminality by people who are entering the country on a

dinghy. >> do you reckon we collect enough information to even know that, >> well , it is a that, >> well, it is a question of the processing of them, which of course the government then got to a situation under the illegal migration act where they couldn't leave the country and they couldn't stay. so they were stuck in a limbo. so i don't know, as they couldn't be processed at that point. i don't know how much information was being gathered, but certainly to process them through the asylum system should have been you should be able to get the information that you need like that. i'm really astonished that you would say that. >> my concern about that is rubbish, because i don't feel like it's rubbish. i feel like it's a genuine, legitimate concern. you have no evidence and i feel that one of evidence. >> michelle, do you i feel look at the state of what's happening in ireland now. >> at the moment you've got protests all over the places, you've got people setting fire, which i don't condone, in case anyone's suggesting that i do or don't condone it. people are setting fire to facilities that have been earmarked for migrants. why are they doing that? because when you look at

some of the crimes, horrendous crimes that's been committed in ireland, when you actually look at the origins of the people that have done it, unfortunately they are people that you can tie back to entering the country as migrants. when i say about children getting stabbed, i feel about and i am angry about this. i feel back and i think back to that horrendous, knife attack in annecy where we saw babies strapped in pushchairs knifed. who did that? who i don't know, well, i do, it was someone that can be traced back as entering into that country originally as a migrant. i'm furious about it. i'm furious about the fact that i'm furious about the fact that i feel that there's no conversation permitted, about this subject. it immediately gets shut down. >> alan, what do you think? well, i think we need to have a big conversation about integration and about values. and i have always been of the view that in general, migration make things better, not worse . make things better, not worse. however, what we need is integration, where people recognise that there are values that we subscribe to here, and that we subscribe to here, and that means we promote those

values to begin with and we've abdicated them. our leaders , our abdicated them. our leaders, our universities, our schools, many of the public sector, they've replaced them with things like esg and edi and the very notion of integrating becomes presented as being bigoted. and so what we've begun to see is real pockets of areas which are not being integrated . and we have to being integrated. and we have to say things like rotherham and rochdale and other areas where we've seen horrendous crimes of not just grooming, of rapes and attacks on young girls, white working class girls, generally and by, you know, grooming gangs and by, you know, grooming gangs and that we're doing that and that those who've got knives and other things. so we do have a situation where there's an issue with values. i think it's really tncky with values. i think it's really tricky to start extrapolating from one incident. some of those other things, because they're issues that we have to have a discussion about. and the question about how many people should come to the country should come to the country should be a question about our borders. and about our home

office, and not having civil servants that are competing against elected officials that have been told to do that by the majority of the public, which we've got an issue with. and we need to have an honest debate where you don't just censor people or shut them down for saying what some people say is the unsayable. we need to address these things. we need to ask questions why? it was the case that in rochdale last week, stones were thrown at police stations and at the same time claims were being made which did not get the same attention as other claims that were said were being made. and i'm just concerned that there is a two tier approach to things . but tier approach to things. but again, i think we need to hear exactly what's gone on in this incident. but this broader conversation is really important, >> so anyone that's just tuning in, you'll be familiar with the horrendous stabbing in southport, that press conference was due at 630. that is the room that you can see on your screen. we're live there at the moment that press conference begins. i'll be immediately crossing to it. worry not. you will not miss a second of that. but let me just, just expand this

conversation. even further, because another thing that i was very keen to talk about, this evening was an event which took place on saturday in the capital at trafalgar square here in london, it was an event that was immediately described. and it's i've got, i had all of these examples ready to play you, but i think it's crucial and more important that i stay on this room waiting for this press conference. so i'll spare you that. so you'll have to trust me on this. but immediately this event was described as far right, a far right protest by so many different media outlets. now, alan, you were there. i was also there. i went along because i don't want to take my information. second hand. i want to experience things for myself and what i saw was a collection, and what i saw was a collection, and i actually found it very powerful, actually, men, women, ieven powerful, actually, men, women, i even saw some children, different ages , different different ages, different faiths. i mean, i saw the ukraine flag being waved. i saw israeli flag , being waved. i saw israeli flag, being waved. i saw lots of union flags being waved

and so on and so forth. i saw different people of different skin colours and different kind of backgrounds and so on and so forth. i saw average people and it really angers me and frustrates me and also concerns me when the media keeps hiring and smearing these ordinary british people. as far right you were also there. what was your thoughts on it? >> yes, michelle, i was there and i went there to interview people and to talk to them and see with my own eyes like and, and actually it was like a festival in many ways. and firstly, it's really tedious that the much of the legacy media and some politicians, unfortunately , just immediately unfortunately, just immediately do a knee jerk reaction to say far right to everyone. when we've done protests against ulez ordinary people that are concerned with what's going on with an imposition , people are with an imposition, people are called racist and far right. >> you can't do that at a question time or something. >> indeed, far right and also vaccine deniers. and you get these smears and slurs. so rather than have a discussion about the virtue of your argument or not and shed light

on it, and if it's really clear, then you should be confident to do it , and you then you should be confident to do it, and you should respect one another enough to do it. now not that many countries do. you go where people say, when you fly your own flag that you're a racist, or you're far right? and many people in britain have become very uncomfortable that somehow being patriotic or saying that there's values and virtues that they can believe in, that we can share as common values, that that's not allowed. and somehow you have to be embarrassed about everything in history that everything to do with the legacy of being british is terrible. white, working class people are all scum or gammon or nazis. ironically, our grandparents all fought those nazis in britain. there's a really contemptuous , disdainful really contemptuous, disdainful view. i spoke to a lot of people in the public. they're like yourself. i mean, i saw there were i did i did a post about, amazing grace with a gospel band there. there were all sorts of people there. but what was really interesting to me is how well behaved and polite and calm everyone was , in contrast to, i

everyone was, in contrast to, i must say, other demonstrations i've been to and visited and talked to, one of which i was actually targeted, obviously, as being the wrong kind of person, locked down in a pub and then had a dispersal order, nearly got arrested just because they decided they wanted to do that, some of these marches where you've got hamas flags and isis flags and i'm by the way, in, i think everyone's got the right to protest and to fly most flags. but if you are going to fly a terrorist flag, surely that raises a question. if it's a proscribed organisation in britain, and if you're certainly going to start burning things and firing rockets and throwing things at the police and doing violence and vandalism, surely that needs to be addressed in a certain way. what i saw was people singing, encouraging one another and not talking negativities, but generally talking about a common outlook of uniting people in the kingdom. so i just think that more journalists should come down, do a bit of what i did, come and talk to people. i went with an open mind. as it happens, i wanted to see what i

would get. we should get journalists who want to do that thorough investigation, not just kind of have a crib sheet where they just say things knee jerk, take people seriously because british people, you keep telling them all, they're all racists, they're all far, right. in the end, they've begun to realise this is just a kind of knee jerk reaction that some people in a very small, metropolitan elite say about just generally ordinary, everyday people. and it's just not okay. >> nigel nelson well, you have the advantage of me. i wasn't there, i was behind this table while the march was going on, you graphed out. go on, but but as far as i could see from the news reports, it was actually covered in a perfectly fair, reasonable way , i think. reasonable way, i think. michelle, your your objection is to actually label it far right. >> my objection. i am sick and tired, of these pathetic to me now they just become nonsensical. this label of saying someone you're far right, you're racist. it's become absolutely nonsensical because

it is chucked around like confetti . it's therefore confetti. it's therefore completely diluted the meaning of any terms. and i feel that what's happening is your everyday man and woman on the street, their concerns are not being listened to. they get undermined, they get smeared. and i think it's actually creating a rise in anger in society. i think it's quite dangerous, actually. >> when you have a demonstration led by tommy robinson, i would i would suggest that tommy robinson and certainly the organisation he previously led, the english defence league , they the english defence league, they are far right groups. they are a far right group. >> but didn't he i mean he left it i mean he left it was too extreme. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> so i mean what do you think to that. >> because because if you were trying to define the two things i would define far right as a, as supporting the kind of behaviours and methods used by a fascist dictatorship in the same way that far left would be

supporting methods and behaviours of a communist dictatorship , the way that tommy dictatorship, the way that tommy robinson behaves and the way the engush robinson behaves and the way the english defence league behaves, does have those fascist undertones. they behave towards . undertones. they behave towards. they say they're anti—islamist , they say they're anti—islamist, but then they demonise all muslims. and that was very much the kind of view there. >> and i've got to say, i saw it's a, it's a i mean, in one sense it's not a shame because this situation is very, very important and i'm going to stick with it. but i had lots of imagery to show you the kind of people in attendance. i was actually personally stood behind actually personally stood behind a muslim couple for a good ten minutes. the lady was wearing a hijab. they got no grief whatsoever there. i saw all kinds of different. >> you're talking about ordinary people being there . people being there. >> that i am definitely talking about ordinary people being there. and i'm definitely talking about ordinary people as sick and tired of being smeared in this way. and i got to tell all the media that did it like that, i think you're

disgraceful. quite frankly. get your backsides away from your little bubbles, get out there and actually talk to people you might find. you know what? they're pretty damn decent after all. look, i'm michelle dewberry there is a press conference any second now. we won't be going anywhere. we will stick with it. but i will see you tomorrow. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news >> good evening. coming to you from the met office. here is your latest gb news, weather forecast. whilst tomorrow is looking largely sunny and hotter than today, for many of us, we do have a bit of cloud and some rain still across parts of the northwest due to a weak decaying front that is gradually making its way south eastwards. that rain, then, is going to push its way a little bit further across parts of scotland, and perhaps northern ireland, before easing and clearing away overnight. and so for many it is going to turn largely dry. there will be some clear skies around, but also a few pockets of mist and fog here

and there in the southeast. i'm expecting it to be a bit warmer than last night, but towards the northwest it should be a touch fresher, perhaps a little bit more comfortable. if we take a closer look at what we can expect first thing tomorrow morning, then down the eastern side of scotland, a bright sunny start here. further west, though, a bit cloudier and there could still be some lingering showery outbreaks of rain around, though these will largely clear away as we go through the morning. also, a few spots of rain, perhaps for the far west of northern ireland, and a bit more cloud over far north of england. >> but during the incident, a 17 year old male from banks in lancashire, who is originally from cardiff, has been arrested on suspicion of murder and attempted murder and he's been taken to a police station where he will be interviewed by detectives. my officers were called to reports of a stabbing at 1147 this morning and at address in southport. when they arrived, they were shocked to

find that multiple people, many of whom were children, had been subjected to a ferocious attack and had suffered serious injuries . it and had suffered serious injuries. it is and had suffered serious injuries . it is understood that injuries. it is understood that the children were attending a taylor swift event at a dance school. when the offender, armed with a knife, walked into the premises and started to attack inside the children. we believe that the adults who were injured were bravely trying to protect the children who were being attacked . as a mum and a nana, attacked. as a mum and a nana, i can't begin to imagine the pain and suffering that the families of the victims are going through at this moment in time, and i wish to send my heartfelt condolences to them . our condolences to them. our specialist family liaison officers are providing support to the families of the deceased children and the children who were injured at this moment in time, and we will be working with our partners , including with our partners, including sefton council, to provide that wider trauma support to those

who've been affected by this incident. the investigation is incident. the investigation is in its early stages and the motivation for the incident remains unclear. however, counter—terrorism police north—west have offered their support to merseyside police as the full circumstances of what has happened are being established. at this moment in time, the investigation is not being treated as terrorist related. i would appeal to anyone who has witnessed anything or who has information that could help us. the investigation to contact us on crime stoppers 800 treble five, treble one. and anyone who has been affected by this incident can contact victim care merseyside service for help and support . our hope of locally support. our hope of locally trained staff are here to provide free and emotional support and practical, tailored advice to you. you can contact the victim care hub, merseyside .

the victim care hub, merseyside. on 0808081753080. thank you . on 0808081753080. thank you. >> my name is dave kitchin and on behalf of north east ambulance service, we'd like to offer our sincere condolences to those families who tragically lost loved ones today and to the wider community. our thoughts are with you . i can confirm that are with you. i can confirm that we were called to the hart street area in southport just before lunchtime today to an incident of reported multiple stabbings. we declared this as a major incident due to the number of casualties and the types of the injuries sustained. a substantial number of ambulances and specialised resources were dispatched to the scene, including our hazardous area response team, our ambulances, a merit doctors . tragically, we merit doctors. tragically, we can confirm that two lives have sadly been cut short. we treated 11 casualties on scene who were conveyed by emergency ambulance and helimed to alder hey

hosphal and helimed to alder hey hospital, royal manchester children's hospital, along with aintree university, southport, formby and ormskirk general hospitals . i would like to formby and ormskirk general hospitals. i would like to thank our staff who worked incredibly hard caring for the victims in what was a devastating scene . what was a devastating scene. i'd also like to thank our blue lights and emergency colleagues from the nhs for nhs for all their support during this incident, and again, we'd like to express our deepest sympathies to the loved ones of those affected. no doubt this incident will have a lasting impact on the whole community, and our thoughts are very much with them at this difficult time. >> vaughan gething chief fire officer for merseyside fire and rescue service and my colleagues, i would like to pass on my thoughts and those of my service to the family , friends service to the family, friends and loved ones of everyone affected by this horrific incident. this is not something that anyone should have to come to terms with in relation to the

incident itself . my firefighters incident itself. my firefighters responded following the declaration of a major incident and were on the scene in minutes with crews from southport fire station and a specialist team from aintree responding to assist our colleagues from merseyside police and north west ambulance service who were deaung ambulance service who were dealing with a traumatic and understandably chaotic scene . understandably chaotic scene. the crews were trauma trained and worked alongside their colleagues to provide trauma care , administer first aid and care, administer first aid and undertake a wide area search for any other persons affected by this incident. my firefighters, many of whom live in this community, will be appalled by this act, but they will be back on the streets of southport tomorrow to provide reassurance , tomorrow to provide reassurance, kindness and support. the tomorrow to provide reassurance, kindness and support . the crews kindness and support. the crews themselves were stood down at 4:18 pm. this afternoon .