to the hart we were called to the hart street area in southport just before lunchtime today to an incident of reported multiple stabbings. we declared this as a major incident due to the number of casualties and the types of the injuries sustained. a substantial number of ambulances and specialised resources were dispatched to the scene, including our hazardous area response team, our ambulances, a merit doctors . tragically, we merit doctors. tragically, we can confirm that two lives have sadly been cut short. we treated 11 casualties on scene who were conveyed by emergency ambulance and helimed to alder hey hosphal and helimed to alder hey hospital, royal manchester children's hospital, along with aintree university, southport, formby and ormskirk general hospitals . i would like to formby and ormskirk general hospitals. i would like to thank our staff who worked incredibly hard caring for the victims in what was a devastating scene . what was a devastating scene. i'd also like to thank our blue

lights and emergency colleagues from the nhs for nhs for all their support during this incident, and again, we'd like to express our deepest sympathies to the loved ones of those affected. no doubt this incident will have a lasting impact on the whole community, and our thoughts are very much with them at this difficult time. >> vaughan gething chief fire officer for merseyside fire and rescue service and my colleagues, i would like to pass on my thoughts and those of my service to the family , friends service to the family, friends and loved ones of everyone affected by this horrific incident. this is not something that anyone should have to come to terms with in relation to the incident itself . my firefighters incident itself. my firefighters responded following the declaration of a major incident and were on the scene in minutes with crews from southport fire station and a specialist team from aintree responding to assist our colleagues from merseyside police and north west ambulance service who were deaung ambulance service who were dealing with a traumatic and

understandably chaotic scene . understandably chaotic scene. the crews were trauma trained and worked alongside their colleagues to provide trauma care , administer first aid and care, administer first aid and undertake a wide area search for any other persons affected by this incident. my firefighters, many of whom live in this community, will be appalled by this act, but they will be back on the streets of southport tomorrow to provide reassurance , tomorrow to provide reassurance, kindness and support. the tomorrow to provide reassurance, kindness and support . the crews kindness and support. the crews themselves were stood down at 4:18 pm. this afternoon . okay. >> good evening. i'm martin daubney. this is gbn tonight . daubney. this is gbn tonight. that was a press conference there in southport. that was

chief constable serena kennedy opened proceedings. confirming a 17 year old living in banks, originally from cardiff . had originally from cardiff. had been detained for murder and attempted murder. she sadly confirmed , that two children confirmed, that two children have been killed in this incident and 11 other casualties on site . she described the on site. she described the attack as ferocious, a ferocious attack as ferocious, a ferocious attack on children, we believe adults injured were bravely trying to protect those children. she then went on to say as a mum and a nana, i cannot imagine the grief and the trauma they are going through. she went on to try to explore some potential motive, and she said counter—terror police are offering their support. but at present this is not being treated as a terror related incident. we then heard from a paramedic who gave a statement

saying this incident will have a lasting impact on this area, and then a firefighter representative who described described the scene as traumatic , described the scene as traumatic, chaotic, but then added, my team will be back on the streets of southport tomorrow offering wider help to the community, just to repeat it was at a taylor swift yoga event at a premises in the area the children impacted were year 2 to 6. this primary school children aged between, six and 11 and yeah, two died. two children have died. this is on a taking care of kids at what would would have been a very ordinary, kind of summer camp. you know, millions of children go to these parents across the uk, put their kids into these events, of course, to take care of them while they have to work. and today, with tragic consequences

in southport. and let's cross now to the scene. gb news reporter will hollis joins us from the scene in southport . from the scene in southport. will we just heard from chief constable serena kennedy of merseyside police giving us some some details onto the individual detained and the tragic news will hollis that two children confirmed as dead at this tragic mass stabbing today at southport will give us more ms3 fire and rescue were the first. >> yes. well journalists here just on hart street were listening along to that press conference at the same time as you, martin and as as the same time as viewers at home. and people just kind of sank when they heard that two dead, nine others injured and six people in a critical condition. we heard earlier that people had been taken to three hospitals, and some of them were taken to a children's specific hospital ,

children's specific hospital, alder hey. but now we have had it confirmed there by the police as well as the ambulance service that two children have died after this horrific knife attack here in southport. southport, known to as being a famous seaside town on bright sunny days like today, but something much darkerjust days like today, but something much darker just to days like today, but something much darkerjust to go through a little bit of what we just heard there from serena kennedy. she said that children who were inside of a taylor swift dance class were subjected to a ferocious attack that adults who were injured were bravely trying to protect their children. and this is still very much in the early stages of their investigation. and that motivations remain unclear. police have arrested a 17 year old, and they say that they're not looking for anybody else in connection to this. but one of the things that they have made clear is that they don't think that this is terror related, as well as hearing that two

children have died. we heard from dave kitchen , who's from from dave kitchen, who's from the north west ambulance service, that this is going to have a lasting impact on the community. whenever there is an event of this sort of a scale, it really cuts to the core of a community. when it's children involved. and as we hear now, some are critical, but two have died. it gets to the heart of the community in a way that very few other news stories do. we're about 300m away from hart street, where this knife attack took place. about what, seven, almost eight hours ago now. earlier today, about 10 to 12, that police were called here and it was a horrific scene of devastation , children being devastation, children being pulled out of the house. now, we know after from the press release that we just the press conference that we just heard that it was certainly children who were attacked with knives and at least two of them have died today, from where we've been watching, you could see that the forensics teams have

been going in and out. we're quite a far way away, so we haven't really been able to see what they were doing specifically. but we know that this is very much in the early stages of the investigation. a person has been arrested, a 17 year old, and they're trying to figure out now what the motivations were for somebody to do such an awful thing and will, keen to point out that the individual, the 17 year old originally from cardiff, so i guess at this point the search the for information will broaden out to that area as well. >> but a huge amount of testimony has been pouring out throughout the day. will hollis from locals in the area, some some heartbreaking testimonies of . one was of some heartbreaking testimonies of. one was of a some heartbreaking testimonies of . one was of a gentleman who of. one was of a gentleman who ran into the street upon hearing the screams, and he took ten children into his home to protect them. another was from a nurse who said that she heard screams and somebody was saying, my girl, my girl, my girl. such

an incredibly traumatic event for the community. have you been speaking to anybody on the ground there .7 will any locals or ground there? will any locals or people just kind of hunkering down? they're staggered, they're stunned. they're just in their homes trying to make sense of this . this. >> you can see from the barriers that have been put up . yes. that have been put up. yes. well, this is a what seems to be quite a nice residential area. >> it's only probably a ten minute walk to the seafront. and a lot of the people here have been coming down. if you were to see what was behind us, there's groups of young people, teenagers on bikes. there's what appears to be a vicarjust on appears to be a vicar just on the side, a local community leader. people have been coming down quite slowly , quite quietly down quite slowly, quite quietly and cautiously, occasionally maybe speaking to a journalist. but they know what's been happening because they've been heanng happening because they've been hearing it in the community. they know what's been happening because they've been hearing it from some of the journalists that are working down here. and isuppose that are working down here. and i suppose the only word that we can give, really, is that

they're shocked, shocked and upset that this has happened in their community. a quiet, upset that this has happened in their community. a quiet , sleepy their community. a quiet, sleepy part of a fairly sleepy part of the country. southport gets a lot of visitors here, but in this part it's fairly quiet, fairly nice neighbourhood, and it's unexpected as well. and that's what seems to be worrying people here. why has this happened? but police are saying that it happened? but police are saying thatitis happened? but police are saying that it is unclear right now, and they're trying to find out what the motivations were at this holiday. >> and we'll again, we heard some testimony from a supermarket worker who they were closing down all the shops on the high street when this incident emerged was happening, and shop owners donating food, donating water to local families in this darkest hour, this unimaginable horror, two children dead, 11 injured, six critical. chief constable serena kennedy there, pointing out that adults who were present, presumably their carers. god bless them, stepped in to try

and save the children while two adults who were being treated at other. >> yes, but described as adults injured , bravely trying to injured, bravely trying to protect their children. >> it's unimaginable, isn't it, that somebody would want to do this. but seeing it and being there while that is happening, a dance class at the start of the summer holidays, something that is so unbelievably normal nobody would bat an eye. but something so unbelievably abnormal happening here today in a place where children should be safe, should be able to enjoy the start of the summer holidays, turned into one of the most horrific things that we probably spoken about in the news for quite some weeks, or quite some months either. and, nine people still in a difficult situation. sorry, nine people that have been injured , six of them in been injured, six of them in a critical condition. two of those children are dead . now, that was children are dead. now, that was just announced a few moments ago at the press conference. we know

because of the type of thing that it was a taylor swift dance session , that most of these session, that most of these children are probably girls, and that makes it, you know , it sets that makes it, you know, it sets a picture up where 300m away from where this happened , from where this happened, there's only so many things that you can see when we're reporting this kind of a thing, even on social media. but the picture in what i imagine is most people's eyes, ears and minds is very clear for what has happened. and it's not a pretty picture. it's not nice at all. >> okay. well hollis there live from southport. thank you very much for joining from southport. thank you very much forjoining us and giving that full update. and i'm joined now by retired scotland yard detective inspector hamish brown. hamish, welcome to the show. sadly it's under such tragic circumstances. can i could i talk to you now, hamish, about what must be the beginnings of an incredibly complicated , incredibly in—depth complicated, incredibly in—depth police operation. mercifully, the individual has been arrested, detained on murder

charge and a suspected murder charge. the details that were given were perfunctory . 17 year given were perfunctory. 17 year old, living in the banks area approximately 15 minutes away from the scene of this tragic mass stabbing. originally from cardiff. what happens next in terms of trying to piece together the motive , the reason together the motive, the reason for such an unconscionable act? what happens next? hamish brown well, martin, first of all, look, i, i've dealt with many tragedies as a police officer and actually since retirement, working with coroners and other people and, there's people like me and, and police officers have got to be dispassionate about this, but it can't. >> i i've got to say this is tragic. this is awful . my heart tragic. this is awful. my heart and everyone's heart goes out to everyone in in southport . but if everyone in in southport. but if i can turn now, that's important

to say, that if i can turn now to say, that if i can turn now to deal with your question, what happens now? and indeed it was your colleague just now who spoke about why why did this happen? goodness me. well, someone has been arrested, you said mercifully. yes. i'm pleased about that. and the knife, which i understand is the weapon has, has also been seized as well. well, there's a lot of work for the police to do. they've got to deal with this as a murder investigation . there'll a murder investigation. there'll be witnesses, there'll be forensic evidence, medical evidence and tragically, other evidence and tragically, other evidence , because people have evidence, because people have died. so they will piece that together. they'll be looking at cctv witnesses outside. but i think, crucially, the background a 17 year old. what on earth is going on? and they've eliminated, as i understand it, the a terrorist approach. so

maybe his house will be searched. they'll have powers on the police and criminal evidence act as it's a serious offence to search his house. they will delve into his background. it's already been said. the gentleman's from cardiff , so gentleman's from cardiff, so maybe they've got some information about him anyway. and ultimately they'll have to find out what's he about, you know, and this will be both medical and psychiatric considerations as well. i don't know, we'll just have to wait and see. and i've got to reiterate the tragedy for this lovely community. and i've been to southport , a lovely place. to southport, a lovely place. and no one deserves this at all. it was a yoga class or something like that for young people. hamish can i, can i, can i, can i please, mrjacks, and ask you a specific question on policing? >> because a lot of people are asking, how can it be dismissed

asking, how can it be dismissed as a incident that wasn't a terrorist incident yet at the same time, chief constable serena kennedy just said in that police statement that counter—terror police are offering their support. why are they offering their support if it's not a terrorist incident? would you mind clearing that up for us, please? >> well, quite clearly, they're that the initial investigation will assume it is or have come up with it. is not. but at the same time, they will delve into the accused backgrounds. and is there something there that will throw up some connection, some reason to answer that most crucial question why? and of course it's other resources which the police will desperately want because they have a huge amount of work to put their case together . the put their case together. the accused is 17, so he'll be entitled to what's known as an appropriate adult. he'll be questioned in due course. unquestionably, he will have

legal representation and that there may be other representations they're going to make. i don't know, perhaps hamish , can i also interject, hamish, can i also interject, and can i also please interject and can i also please interject and quickly ask you a key question? >> and that is if this individual is 17, does that mean that we're unlikely to know their identity? will they be protected by the courts for anonymity ? anonymity? >> yes, that's a very good question. and indeed, you're protected by the courts, and it will be open to the trial judge at some stage to say it's in the pubuc at some stage to say it's in the public interest that this individual should be identified . individual should be identified. >> okay. thank you very much for joining us. retired scotland yard detective inspector hamish brown. now the prime minister, sir keir starmer, spoke on the incident moments ago. >> the events today are just truly awful and i know the whole country is deeply shocked at what they've seen and what they've heard . and i know they've heard. and i know i speak for everybody in the whole country in saying our thoughts

and condolences are with the victims, their families, their friends and the wider community. and it's almost impossible to imagine the grief that they're going through and the trauma that they're going through. i do want to thank the emergency services and merseyside police, who've had to respond to the most difficult of circumstances today , people across the country today, people across the country will be horrified that something so unthinkably violent could happen. >> what's your message to them tonight? >> i think my message is really to convey what they would want me to convey, which is their thoughts and condolences to the families in particular. it is impossible to imagine what they are going through right now. the wider community, the friends and of course the victims who've got terrible injuries. so i think everybody would want to send those thoughts and condolences. but i do also think about the

emergency responders because they have responded to an awful incident today, and i want to thank them for the professionalism that they have shown in doing so. >> performer on the tragic incident dark day in southport today. two children left dead in a mass stabbing. now up next we'll discuss rachel reeves economic statement. what does it mean for you? we'll out next. don't away

welcome back to the show. this is gbn tonight with me. martin daubney. now, early today, chancellor rachel reeves painted quite a depressing picture of the uk's economics in the commons. she told how there was a 22 billion black hole this year whilst announcing £5.5 billion of savings this year on top and she cancelled a number of conservative transport policies . boris johnson's new policies. boris johnson's new hospital push whilst cashing in

on the ending of the rwanda scheme, now take a listen to her laying into the tories earlier on today in the commons, i've inherited a projected overspend of £22 billion, a £22 billion hole in the public finances. >> now , not in the future, but >> now, not in the future, but now £22 billion of spending. this year that was covered up by the party opposite . the party opposite. >> well, a somewhat punch drunk shadow chancellor jeremy hunt responded to rachel reeves accusations , saying she was accusations, saying she was laying the groundwork for tax rises. >> he will fall absolutely no one with a shameless attempt to lay the grounds for tax rises. she didn't have the courage to tell us about it. in fact, since january, in line with constitutional convention, she has had privileged access to the treasury permanent secretary. she could find out absolutely anything she needed. today's exercise is not economic. it's

political. yes >> well, let's get our teeth into there. let's get started. i'm joined by exchequer secretary to the treasury and labour mp james murray. also with me is mark littlewood, director of the popular conservatives, and doctor jeevan sandon conservatives, and doctor jeevan sandor, labour mp for loughborough and economist. why don't we start with you, james murray? so, james james, mr hunt was having none of it. he said that rachel reeves will fall. absolutely no one by blaming us for tax rises. these £20 billion black hole hasn't magically appeared. this isn't economic. this is political. he also added working families will never forgive her for this. what's your take? >> i think working families will never forgive the conservatives for what they did to the economy, and we've got into office. we knew that we were going to inherit an incredibly difficult set of fiscal circumstances. but then when the chancellor took office, she asked the treasury to do an audh asked the treasury to do an audit of exactly what our inheritance was. and it's now shown there is a £22 billion

black hole this year in year. you know, this is not money further down the line that needs to be needs to be found. this is money that was being spent. this year by the government. you know, it's absolutely outrageous that the government let this happen without telling anyone. you know, they covered it up by not being straight with the obr, not being straight with the obr, not being straight with the obr, not being straight with the british public talking about this in the election campaign. and we're now in a situation where we are in office and we will fix it. and that's the process. the chancellor began today saying, look, it's a mess. let's be straight with the british people. it's a real mess. there are going to be some difficult decisions, but we will fix it. >> i was quite surprised james murray by the fact she seemed to channel her inner george osborne. >> we had quite a tranche of austerity measures, scrapping hospitals, plans to build hospitals, plans to build hospitals who'd have thought the labour party scrapping hospital plans, hs2, roads, lots of cutbacks and yet the magic money tree seemed to spring into life . tree seemed to spring into life. there will be a 22% pay cut for junior doctors. there will be a 5.5% pay cut, likely for public sector workers. it seems it's a

terrible time. unless you're a pubuc terrible time. unless you're a public sector worker. >> well, it's a terrible time for people right across the country, given the economic inheritance that we've had from the previous government. but what the chancellor set out today is her first step in the process to bringing economic stability back to the british economy. we know that if you don't have economic stability, you can't get the economy growing . and economic growth is growing. and economic growth is the way that we will make people across britain better off and get our public services back on a sustainable footing. so making sure we rein in the public finances after this mess, we've inherited, getting economic stability back at the heart of government is absolutely crucial to what we want to do. >> a lot of people are saying this is the prawn cocktail before a buffet of tax rises coming in the autumn statement a day before halloween, october the 30th. astonished today about the 30th. astonished today about the winter fuel allowance being pulled away from pensioners. that's the sort of maggie thatcher milk snatcher approach. >> well, i want to be really honest with you and say that that decision about the winter fuel payment was a really difficult one. you know, it's not one that any of us wanted to

take. it's not one the chancellor was expecting to take coming into office. but having sound finances, being fiscally responsible, having economic stability is not an optional extra for us. it's at the heart of what we want to do in government, and that's why we're having to take difficult decisions. and as i said, you know, this is not going to be the last difficult decision we're going to have to take to get the public finances back under control. great. well, let's bring in my panel. >> now, why don't we start with you, mark littlewood? i heard you, mark littlewood? i heard you sort of scoffing away in the background there. do you think the public will buy this idea that the country is in a terrible mess and it's all because of the conservatives and the labour party didn't see this coming, and it was a huge cover up coming, and it was a huge cover ”p by coming, and it was a huge cover up by the tories. >> look, it's a really interesting question, martin. and i also want to be fair to the new government, because i wish them well, even though i'm a member of the conservative party. but this is utterly preposterous. rachel reeves is arguing that a pound has been lost down the back of the sofa when the country is £7 trillion in debt. if you add up our national debt and all our national debt and all our national liabilities, this is a trivial rounding issue ,

trivial rounding issue, actually, 20 billion or so. i mean, if she genuinely thinks the conservatives have lied about it, she should name the people who have done. but it's cents on the dollar. there is a colossal overspend by the public sector . there has been for 25 sector. there has been for 25 years. there has not been a balanced budget since 2001. the state is spending well beyond the means of taxpayers, and there needs to be a massive consolidation in public spending. you can argue where it should be. which are we going to cut? is it going to be the triple lock pension? is it going to be the nhs? is it going to be defence spending? but politicians of all stripes need to be honest. that public spending has got out of control and 20 billion is a rounding error on this. we are going to have to cut by 100 billion or so a year to even balance the budget. >> okay, let's bring in stephen sandor for your take on this. tough times, tough decisions need to be made, but a lot of

people do believe that this is heading towards tax rises. what the labour party always seems to do to tax us out of this 22 billion black hole, is that the inevitable outcome? well, first we'll pick up. >> i'll say that mark said that £20 billion of rounding area. we are a serious government that is seriously governing in these times, £20 billion is not a rounding error. it's a huge amount of money, and every single pound that we spend, we will account for everything we're going to do. we're going to say how we are going to fund it. that does include, for example, hiring more doctors and nurses to get down, waiting lists. it has a future decision about tax rates, will set them out, future budgets. but today we are being straight with the british people, as we always will be, and we are a responsible government and we count every single penny. >> can i ask you really don't i mean, i mean, come on, you are controlling a £1 trillion budget. you do not account for every pound in that. if you do, you're mad. you round to the nearest million or so . if you nearest million or so. if you are accounting for every pound, you've got too many bureaucrats working on a spreadsheet. you need to be honest, as the

government about your broad brush approaches about public expenditure. and if you are accounting for every pound, you are wasting money. this is a £1 trillion enterprise. the british government, if you are counting every last fivepence , you are every last fivepence, you are wasting taxpayers money. >> and what about that point about the means tested winter fuel payment? that's going to get a lot of people's, you know, you know, shackles up, so to speak. you know, shackles up, so to speak . if that's going to be speak. if that's going to be means tested, then we hear all the time that means testing payments is a huge bureaucratic enterprise and that will have errors. we saw that during payments of universal credit dunng payments of universal credit during lockdown, all sorts of fraud errors and lots of extra people need to be paid through that. it will cost so much money to actually get these savings back, won't it? >> it's a hugely difficult decision. rachel has to make the entire budget add up, and she's had to make this incredibly difficult decision. i trust rachel, i trust the team. they got us to a point where actually where trust in the economy. we're trusting the public finances. she's taking this

difficult decision and has to make sure that our programme adds up across the piece, because as well as doing this, as well as restoring our public services, we do also have to ensure that we do invest in growth. we have set out our planning reforms to get infrastructure being built in this country. we have set out how we're going to make energy cheaper with clean energy. we have done things that will help the british economy. as it grows, we will all get better off as well as, of course, our better public services. but today, today we have found there is £20 billion that have not been accounted for. and it's not just us. the obr have written a letter as well. the ifs. you see an economist after economist not from the labour side, by the way organisation i would see would actually be quite either neutral in the small c conservative saying something has gone very badly wrong. what the last government did. >> okay. thank you gentlemen, we have to leave it there. thanks to my panel. and that's labour mp james murray. also of course, mark littlewood and doctor gavin sanden mark littlewood and doctor gavin sander. we're coming back to you later in the show. thank you very much. now, in a moment talk about labour

welcome back. i'm martin daubney this is gbn tonight. well, labour appears to have pulled off something the tories couldn't. a deal could be struck with junior doctors as rachel reeves told the house of commons she has struck a deal with them. she said it would be a 22% pay rise to junior doctors. the british medical association has recommended the offer to its members. of course, it has . and members. of course, it has. and who can blame them now? someone who can blame them now? someone who was at the coalface just hours ago is annie williamson, a junior doctor and herself research fellow at the institute for public policy research. annie welcome to the studio. a lot of people will be saying 22%, inflation's 2%. this is inflation busting. it's a massive pay rise. but £2.7 trillion in national debt and rising. this costs £1 billion a yean rising. this costs £1 billion a year, £5 billion over the term of the labour government. why on earth do junior doctors deserve it? >> well, martin junior doctors

have been overworked and underpaid for many years now and in the uk, good health in our population is the bedrock for getting the uk economy growing again. back to its best. so we need an nhs that's able to deliver elective care for our parents. operations a&e service. when our children need it, and that means we need doctors in our hospitals paid fairly motivated to be there rather than leaving for australia, which many of my colleagues have been doing throughout the year that i've been working. so i think we need to invest in our health service. this is a crucial first step to do so. >> what about the notion that a lot of people are saying, wow, you know, hey presto, as if by magic. this has been resolved five minutes into a labour term. is there a political element to this with the junior doctors and the unions simply unprepared to negotiate with the conservatives? and as soon as labour gets in wallop, it's a done deal. >> i think there were really genuine frustrations felt by junior doctors over recent

years. exhaustion off the back of covid and previously, but also the sense that pay wasn't keeping up with cost of living. ihave keeping up with cost of living. i have colleagues who couldn't pay i have colleagues who couldn't pay rent and pay their student loans off, and this is the first pay loans off, and this is the first pay deal that listens to those concerns. seriously, that embeds a pay concerns. seriously, that embeds a pay rise that considers that. but also that talks about other concerns. so rotational training around the country that took where people live out of their control, sending people off to plymouth with a few weeks notice. i think that this deal puts staff wellbeing first and therefore puts our patients wellbeing first as well. >> so annie, putting your economists hat on now, we had rachel reeves in the commons earlier on today saying we've got this super massive black hole, £22 billion a year. how does adding 5 billion to that black hole by paying junior doctors help ? doctors help? >> well, investing in our health is an investment in our potential to grow again . we need potential to grow again. we need to provide the knee operations

that allow someone to go back to worth work or the heart surgery appointment that someone needs to stay healthy. so at the moment, with millions of people economically inactive in the uk, that's terrible for the people that's terrible for the people that we love first and foremost, but also is bad for our economy. for once, actually putting the nhs at the heart of investment, of planning here in the future, i think is a way to actually tackle that sort of long term sickness. that's currently holding the uk back. >> but do you think there's an argument to say that the nhs is constantly getting billions and billions of pounds? it's, it's the biggest, recipient of every pound that we pay in tax by a country mile. we seem to throw more and more money at it. nothing seems to improve in terms of outcome . why does this terms of outcome. why does this pay terms of outcome. why does this pay rise? you keep saying very sensible stuff about if we if we're all healthier, we can work more. but throwing money at the problem doesn't seem to have solved it. isn't there a

different solution? how about looking at privatising the nhs now? wes streeting talks about that pre—election, as well as giving you guys a pay rise today. would that cause you to maybe consider going on a strike if there were to be this notion of let's modernise, let's do something that people like nigel farage have said for a long time and look at this partnership between private and the nhs , between private and the nhs, introduced first by tony blair. >> well, martin, i think one aspect of what you're saying there that a pay deal is only part of fixing the nhs is right. we need to think about how we build the service back to its best. the way i would do that and what we've advocated for at ipp and what we've advocated for at |pp is and what we've advocated for at ipp is firstly starting with prevention , building a healthier prevention, building a healthier population. that means people being able to see their gps again, but also thinking about supporting healthy lifestyles, spaces for sport, more affordable healthy food. but then also it means within the nhs, listening to staff before we get to the point of a strike. so right now staff have had to strike to have negotiations over

pay going strike to have negotiations over pay going forward. we need to embed staff voice in those negotiations and listen in advance to doctors, but also to nurses, to others. that's more affordable for everyone, it's more sustainable and it means the system can deliver without looking at a two tier privatised system. that would be more unfair for the patients that i see every day. >> what would you say to the point, annie, that, you've had a you've had a result today, a complete result, 22% pay rise. and now you mentioned your colleagues there, nurses, paramedics, all sorts of other workers, gps, they'll be think they'll be licking their lips. the prospects of the fact that this labour party seems to be on a pay this labour party seems to be on a pay rise. giveaway. >> well, i think that's where we need to think about longer term solutions to listening to staff in the nhs . so today is a first in the nhs. so today is a first step and it's an important one to resolve the doctors dispute. but going forward we do need to listen to the frustrations of nurses, of paramedics, of physios and that means building

structures where rather than currently you have a pay review body that just picks a number, staff has have a choice to accept it or to go on strike. strike becomes the only resort, not the last resort. instead, we need a real system that listens. so that means proactively embedding staff in those negotiations, reforming the pay review process, and more widely working conditions to make the nhs work better for my colleagues and for the patients that we care about very quickly. >> do you think it's morally acceptable for doctors or nurses at all to ever go on strike? your job at all to ever go on strike? yourjob is meant to be saving lives, not endangering them by going on strike. >> i think in certain cases, striking for the health of the nhs and its ability to deliver for patients in the future is a commitment to our values, to serve the public themselves. thank you both. >> thanks very much for joining us. annie williamson, superb stuff. thank you very much. now britain has fallen out of the top ten manufacturing nations for the first time on record. that's according to analysis by lobby group make uk. we're now the 12th biggest manufacturer and the organisation has called it a wake up call for prime

minister sir keir starmer, who is aiming to secure investment in future technologies, including of course, electric cars, batteries and wind turbines. we're joined now by kate hills, founder of make it british. kate, welcome to the show. no surprises here. for decades and decades, we've outsourced our manufacturing. we've given to in cheap foreign laboun we've given to in cheap foreign labour. we haven't protected british industry. we haven't protected british jobs. we've been addicted to cheap imported laboun been addicted to cheap imported labour. quelle surprise, we don't make anything anymore. how don't make anything anymore. how do we fix it ? do we fix it? >> oh, god. where do we start? well, a decent industrial strategy, i think would be the main starting point. we've not had one for years. manufacturing has been totally neglected by a whole succession of governments. it's been pushed aside in favour of a service industry, and it's decimated communities, businesses and communities and it really it should be the backbone of the uk economy, it's halved since the 1990s. we've

seen this huge decline in manufacturing. it's not been the same in other european, you know, countries like germany, italy , france, they're all ahead italy, france, they're all ahead of us now. they're all germany, always was. but, you know, we're falling back and they're not. and, you know, we just need to we need to sort it out because we need to sort it out because we can't be focusing on just a service industry going forward. a lot of the service industry jobs will get replaced by ai, but manufacturing, you know, people that work in manufacturing , it's a decent manufacturing, it's a decent it's a decent salary. it's a decent job. we've somehow the what's it the face of manufacturing has, you know , it. manufacturing has, you know, it. you get teachers and schools saying don't go and work in a factory, get a proper job, go factory, get a properjob, go and work in a shop. and we've all seen that, that hasn't worked. and we need a fresh start and we need to encourage more people to go and work in manufacturing again. and we need this industrial strategy desperately . desperately. >> well, kate hill is one of the obsessions. seems to be we heard it there. the jobs will be making electric cars, making

batteries, making wind turbines net zero. kate hills . how much net zero. kate hills. how much of a battleship chain has that been? because we're outsourcing the manufacturing to countries like china of so many things, they don't give a damn about their carbon footprint. they're making stuff on the cheap. we're outsourcing our carbon footprint. and now it seems the labour party, the only new jobs they want are in electric vehicles. people don't seem to want to buy them. what kind of british manufacturing do you think we actually need? what kind of industry is kate hills do we need to be pumping the dosh into? >> well, i would to love see our government actually doing their own procurement in the uk and things like uniform, you know , things like uniform, you know, things. the mod we used to make tons of uniform for our own military not only a decade ago, and now we don't make anything here. so we haven't even got a government who's source locally like, unlike in the states where they've got the berry agreement, where they source all of their local procurement, all of it locally. so if you have uniform

that you put on a soldier in the us, it's been made in the us, in the uk, we're quite happy for other countries to make our military uniforms. so, you know, we want the government to put its money where its mouth is and actually source locally as well. and actually it's a false economy to be buying these products overseas. i saw it dunng products overseas. i saw it during covid when i tried to get the government to source ppe locally, and i saw how their own procurement teams for saving a few pence and through going in, preferring to pay middlemen or women , we all know who they are, women, we all know who they are, to source our ppe for us. we went to china rather than creating jobs in the uk to make our own ppe and other products like that for us. >> grace of kate hills, founder of make it british. british uniforms for british servicemen. that's a policy i will salute. thanks for having you on the show . absolute pleasure. now show. absolute pleasure. now coming up, the runners and riders have been revealed for the tory leadership race. we'll discuss what the senior member of parliament

next. welcome back. now, the nominations for the conservative party leadership contest closed this afternoon with the six candidates confirmed to be priti patel, james cleverly, kemi badenoch, mel stride robert jenrick and tom tugendhat well ahead of the result in november. the candidates records in government, of course, will be scrutinised, with some having much higher profiles than others. former work and pensions secretary mel stride surprised some by throwing his hat in the in the ring with big names like priti patel. but it's still all to fight for. well, i will join now. by mark garnier, conservative mp for wyre forest and the shadow energy, security and the shadow energy, security and net zero minister, who is backing mel stride. welcome to the show . pleasure to have you, the show. pleasure to have you, mark. tell us why you're backing captain stride. >> well, so mel is, so, as you

said, his he's a dark horse coming in his, i was looking at the odds a little bit earlier before coming on, and he is the, he's the long shot at 28 to 1 with ladbrokes. i believe. but the thing about mel is he's. as i say, he's a dark horse, but he's somebody i've known for a long time. and he has a huge number of talents. if you look at the list of all the runners and riders that are coming out, there are a number of different things that we would like to see from all of them. but actually the one person who has the widest spread of skills is mel stride. so he's immensely well—liked across the party. he's very, very, you know, kind of popular with, with all with all the mps, he's very good at media, if you remember, he was the voice who kept coming on dunng the voice who kept coming on during the election campaign on what we laughingly referred to as operation certain death, doing the morning media rounds. but he was out there doing all that media, and he did it very, very well. but i think much more importantly than that, he's very, very good in government and he's got a very strong track record. he was he achieved a huge amount of work and pensions secretary, where he managed to say, we have to move on to the

other runners and riders. >> you say you like a long shot, 28 to 1. that really is a long shot. back in the real world, mel stride probably hasn't got much of a hope of winning. with that in mind, who do you think is the actual correct choice? there's been lots of talk about the direction of the party, lots of talk about uniting the party. is that even possible? when the party seems to be two parties, you yourself or a backer of net zero? a lot of the people on this list don't even back that. kemi badenoch you talk about bookies, she is the bookies favourite. she's called the tories incoherent, increasingly liberal. that might, ring with some of yourself and tolerating nasty identity politics isn't the truth, mark. the conservative party lost its way. it simply failed to be conservative. in the end . conservative. in the end. >> well, it depends on how you define conservative. i mean, i think you know, conservatism is a broad, broad brush. and, you know, at the end of the day, you know, at the end of the day, you know, i kind of stand at the sort of the one nation end of the party, although, you know, i think we're going to try to avoid having any labels on us

because at the end of the day, the one big label that counts is conservatism. but at the end of the day, conservatives believe in in opportunity for individuals in the people's ability to own their own homes, for example, and people's ability to make money and to have a successful life. and if they fall off life's ladder, we'll be there to pick them up, dust them down, train them up and get them back on the ladder again. and i think all of those candidates, kind of represent all of that. i think there's no question in my mind that, all of them, to 1 degrees or another, come up with those, those standards. i mean, i think, you know, kemi is a very, very credible candidate. you mentioned her specifically at the last. >> we only have we only have a quick minute left. i need to ask you a key question. do you think mel stride is the kind of candidate that could neutralise the 4 million votes lost to nigel farage's reform party, >> i think if we try to define this upcoming election as just about, reform, we're going to miss the point you've got to bearin miss the point you've got to bear in mind, you know, the last election, we lost 7.13 million votes. they a lot of them went to reform 4 million potentially went to reform. but an awful lot of people just didn't turn up. and bear in mind that we may

have lost five seats. reform we lost 60 seats to the liberal democrats. now the liberal democrats. now the liberal democrat vote went down. but but to find everything by reform alone is a wrong is a wrong answer. >> okay, well , therein lies the >> okay, well, therein lies the rub. mark gonyea, how do you appeal to those millions of liberal democrats, and how do you appeal to those millions of reform party voters? back to my original point, mark gone. many people might believe the conservative party is actually two parties and one. and maybe that's the heart of the nation problem. thanks for joining that's the heart of the nation problem. thanks forjoining us. now coming up is the state of the nation, of course, with jacob rees—mogg , who hoves into jacob rees—mogg, who hoves into view magically next to me. can i quickly ask you about your no doubt you're gonna feature on your show that rachel reeves statement earlier on putting the boot into your party's legacy? do you think she can be trusted? do you think she can be trusted? do you think it's fair that she'll get away with continue blaming the tories for this black hole? >> she won't get away with it. because what she said today is extraordinarily dishonest. she herself was aware of the figures. she said herself that she knew what the figures were because of the abr, various

other people said there may be 20 billion that needs to be found during the election campaign. this is not news and to pretend it is and to blame the tories is simply dishonest. it's also a rounding error in terms of economic growth. the economic growth is a little bit higher. the government has extra money to spend. if it's a little bit lower, it has less. the forecast are not accurate to £20 billion. so what she's saying is fake news and do you think people will be slightly confused by the fact she was channelling george osborne at one point? >> austerity mk2 scrapping hospitals, roads, hs2 and then in the next breath there was a bumper giveaway to 22% to junior doctors and 5.5% perhaps on the way for teachers and nurses. >> well, it's fascinating that they are paying the fee to their mates, aren't they? so the doctors union, hard left wing union goes on strike, tries to disrupt a conservative government and they get paid off by their socialist friends. this is the labour party in action

for you. >> it's a taste of things to come. what about the winter fuel allowance? that will raise a lot of eyebrows. that's the kind of mean spirited thing you never expect from the labour party, isn't it? >> well, of course you expect mean spirited things from the labour party. that's par for the course. but to take it away without having said so in the election campaign is again, it's dishonesty. that's what's so wrong with british politics, is you can't trust politicians and people are fed up with that. labour got a small share of the vote it needed to show it could be trusted, and it's now showing that it's so crooked it can't sleep straight. >> well, jeremy hunt said she will fall absolutely no one by blaming us for tax rises that remains to be seen. as i just said. up next, jacob rees—mogg on the state of the nation. thank you for joining on the state of the nation. thank you forjoining me. i've thank you for joining me. i've been martin daubney. nigel farage is back tomorrow. i'm back 3 to 6 pm. tomorrow. please join me first. here's your weather with alex bercow. thank you. have a great evening. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on . gb. news

weather on. gb. news >> good evening. coming to you from the met office. here is your latest gb news. weather forecast. whilst tomorrow is looking largely sunny and hotter than today, for many of us, we do have a bit of cloud and some rain still across parts of the northwest due to a weak decaying front that is gradually making its way southeastwards . that its way southeastwards. that rain then, is going to push its way a little bit further across parts of scotland and perhaps northern ireland, before easing and clearing away overnight. and so for many, it is going to turn largely dry. there will be some clear skies around, but also a few pockets of mist and fog here and there in the southeast. i'm expecting it to be a bit warmer than last night, but towards the northwest it should be a touch fresher, perhaps a little bit more comfortable. if we take a closer look at what we can expect first thing tomorrow morning, then down the eastern side of scotland, a bright sunny start here. further west, though a bit cloudier and there could still be some lingering showery outbreaks of rain around , though outbreaks of rain around, though these will largely clear away as we go through the morning. also,

a few spots of rain, perhaps for the far west of northern ireland, and a bit more cloud over far north of england. but for many central southern parts of england and wales it is going to be a bright, sunny start and because of the sunshine, any fog and mist patches will quickly clear away. lots of sunshine then, for many of us as we go through tomorrow, even across scotland and northern ireland, it is going to be brighter and sunnier than today. and like i said, those showery outbreaks of rain will clear through as well. with the sunshine, it's going to feel pretty hot, particularly in the southeast. temperatures getting to highs of around 32 celsius, which will make it the hottest day of the year so far. a little bit fresher towards the northwest. looking ahead to wednesday and it's another fine day for many of us. we still have some very hot, humid air across us, especially in the southeast , across us, especially in the southeast, and that does mean there is the risk of some thunderstorms pushing up from the south as we go through wednesday night and into thursday. so do watch out for some intense thunderstorms on thursday, particularly in the south and then some wetter, fresher weather on friday.

>> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news