at all. is going on.7 nothing at all. excuses any of that behaviour completely inexcusable. but i personally feel a sense that britain is on the edge. there is something simmering beneath the surface. so many people are angry if you ask me. hard conversations need to be had in order to make things get better going forward, not worse. for tonight, let's do a special focusing on broken britain. what's going on.7 what's causing it, and how on earth do we fix it? it.7 >> at 6:01. it? >> at 6:01. good evening. this is the latest from the gb newsroom and we have had the breaking news in the last hour that the man who sent former bbc news presenter huw edwards indecent images of children was a convicted paedophile. the metropolitan police confirmed 25

year old alex williams sent the images in an online chat. the former newsreader today pleaded guilty to three counts of making indecent images of children and admitted to accessing 41 indecent images of children, including one of a child as young as seven years old. in a statement, the bbc said he would have been sacked if he'd been charged while still working for the corporation. the broadcaster addedit the corporation. the broadcaster added it was shocked by what it called his abhorrent behaviour , called his abhorrent behaviour, but admitted it knew of his arrest last november, saying also that they were made aware of a significant risk to huw edwards health. now, police in merseyside are reportedly aware of suggestions of further disorder in southport planned for this evening. it's after more than 50 officers were injured in violent scenes outside a mosque yesterday evening. a group of around 300 people have already been encouraged by false posts on social media, which claimed the

suspect, who carried out a stabbing spree at a children's dance class, was a muslim. four men have so far been arrested in connection with last night's unrest and serena kennedy, the chief constable of merseyside police, said those responsible will face justice. >> it was just outrageous. it was disgusting. i was watching it live from footage coming in. i was absolutely appalled by the level of violence directed at my officers, the very officers that had been in this community for 48 hours, providing support to a traumatised community, utterly disgusting. but those people last night do not represent the communities of southport. the communities of southport. the communities of southport are the people that have turned out here today en masse to make sure this community is restored to normality. but i am absolutely appalled and disgusted and we will identify them well in the news, away from southport, a woman and an eight year old girl have died in what police are calling suspicious circumstances in a house fire in huddersfield,

a ten year old girl is in a critical condition in hospital, we understand after a blaze broke out on leeds road. >> police say they aren't looking for anyone else in connection with the incident, but they are appealing for anyone with any information to come forward now. a homeless man who pushed a stranger onto the tracks at a london tube station has been found guilty of attempted murder. kurdish migrant vie esther ghey, who's 24, shoved tadeus potucek off the platform at oxford circus station in central london. he narrowly missed touching the live rail and was quickly helped back onto the platform by another passenger, the driver of the oncoming train, which you can see if you're watching on television, said that if the man had been on the tracks just a few seconds later, he would have been killed. turning to news now in the middle east, where both the foreign and defence secretaries are on a visit amid fears of growing tensions in the region, it's after the top political leader of hamas was killed. ismail haniyeh died in a

strike on the iranian capital, which the terror group is blaming on israel. although the israeli government has refused to comment. that strike came just hours after israel did claim responsibility for killing a senior hezbollah commander in a senior hezbollah commander in a separate attack on the lebanese capital. conor mcgregor has been banned from the roads for two years for dangerous driving. the world famous fighter was charged with several motoring offences following an incident in west dublin in march 2022. he was also fined and handed a five month suspended sentence and some good to news finish on. team gb have landed two more golds at the paris olympics. both came in a dramatic fashion as well, alex yee snatching victory in the closing stages of the men's triathlon, while the women's quadruple sculls rowers pipped the netherlands right on the finish line to secure their gold. and that sensational comeback puts britain fourth in the paris olympics medal table. well done, team gb. those are

the latest news headlines. i'm back in an hour. see you then for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . forward slash alerts. >> thank you very much for that, polly. my name is michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company until 7:00 tonight alongside me. i've got my panels here. yousef, who's the chairman of reform uk and andy williams, the political commentator. you know the drill as well. it's not just about us. it is about you guys at home as well. you're very welcome tonight . what is on very welcome tonight. what is on your mind tonight? goodness gracious me. look, i'm going to i'm going to make this almost a single topic show. we've seen the horrendous, situation last night when it came to the thuggery, the rioting, very

unacceptable behaviour. we've seen police officers hurt and injured property damage, places of worship, damage. none of it acceptable at all. all of it very unacceptable. quite frankly, but, look, i want to extend the conversation tonight because it feels to me that there is really a sense of unease in society at the moment. it feels like we're at some kind of tipping point. there's a lot of tipping point. there's a lot of anger, out there. many of you will be feeling it, perhaps yourself . and i'm very keen to yourself. and i'm very keen to explore some of what is going on in society at the moment and how on earth, actually, we can all move forward in a much better way. so that is the topic of conversation i want to have with you guys tonight. you can get in touch all the usual ways. you can email gb views @gbnews. com you can go to the website gbnews.com/yoursay. or of course you can tweet or text me, but wherever you're watching or listening tonight, you're very welcome indeed. so let's start off by crossing live over to southport right now to bring ourselves up to speed with what

has been happening today. sophie reapen has been happening today. sophie reaper, good evening to you . reaper, good evening to you. >> good evening michelle. well, first of all, we were here yesterday. of course, from the morning throughout the day and things were relatively peaceful here. we were, of course, at the scene where that horrific attack took place on monday. we saw scenes of the community coming together. you can see here behind me the hundreds of bunches of flowers, tributes, cuddly toys, balloons that have been laid out, all with messages of sympathy for the families of those three girls. and of course , those three girls. and of course, those three girls. and of course, those who remain still in hospital. there was, of course, that vigil where things also seem to be quite calm. however, then it just seemed that the touchpaper had been lit. we were preparing to leave southport for the evening when we got word that a riot had broken out about half a mile away from the scene , half a mile away from the scene, just up the road, and we now know from merseyside police that 2 to 300 people were in

attendance. there we know that 53 police officers were injured. we got quite close to the front of that. right. we saw things as they were unfolding. myself and my team from gb news, we saw people throwing bricks and other bits of rubble. we saw that police riot van that was lit on fire, all of course, taking place outside the mosque here in southport . now in the last southport. now in the last couple of hours, we've also heard from merseyside police that four arrests were made last night. there was a 31 year old from saint helens, a 31 year old from saint helens, a 31 year old from west derby and a 39 year old from southport. they were all arrested on suspicion of violent disorder and then there's a 32 year old man from manchester who has a probationary address here in southport. he was arrested on suspicion of affray and possession of a bladed article. now we are still waiting, of course, to hear more from merseyside police on exactly what is going on with those arrests, but one would imagine

they are going to be interviewed by detectives about the various things they were arrested on. now, of course , that's in now, of course, that's in complete contrast to the scenes that we've seen both yesterday morning, afternoon and today . morning, afternoon and today. here once again on the scene, we've continued to see people, members of the community coming out and doing what they can to offer support to both those families that are suffering. of course, that heartbreak, but also to the police who, as you mentioned at the start of the programme, it was those officers who were the first on the scene. they responded after that brutal attack. they were doing what they could to save the lives of those children who were just enjoying that dance class. they were the ones who were receiving abuse and having debris hurled at them last night. but but then again, today, the community have come out again, offering whatever support they could . so whatever support they could. so contrasting pictures here in southport as the community continues to reel from that horrific event here on monday .

horrific event here on monday. >> the whole thing is heartbreaking. sophie reaper thank you very much for bringing us up to speed now , as i've told us up to speed now, as i've told you, i do want to focus on the broader picture across britain. i want to be absolutely, categorically clear, i don't think anything justifies the horrific scenes. we've just been seeing and hearing explained. there can be no excuse for grown adults to be essentially destroying , in many cases, their destroying, in many cases, their own neighbourhoods attacking front line officers that literally hours before was trying to save the lives of these children. you can't go around either, damaging, places of religious worship. those places are very precious to many, many people. so i want to be clear that certainly no conversation that i want to have tonight justifies any of the behaviour i've just mentioned, because to me, it is inexcusable. i want to broaden this conversation out . also this conversation out. also joining the panel, i've got andy aslef, as i just mentioned, but i also welcome tonight, shabnam chowdhury, who is a former detector detective superintendent for the

metropolitan police. let me start with you. we've just been mentioning the amount of police, that were harmed last night that they were abused, assaulted , they were abused, assaulted, hospitalised in some cases. just tell me broadly , what do you tell me broadly, what do you think to the scenes that we saw last night? >> oh, pretty much what you said . >> oh, pretty much what you said. absolutely horrific scenes. totally unacceptable. 53 officers injured, eight of those. seriously. four arrests out of that , four of those out of that, four of those officers were from lancashire police , merseyside police police, merseyside police actually isn't a huge force. they've got something like 3700 police officers and that doesn't include police staff. those same officers the day before were actually dealing with that situation. they will run into that situation where they protected the lives of many of those young people. and they probably saved some other lives. so they were dealing with the aftermath of that. and then back the following day, they should have really been out there with the community providing reassurance, gathering evidence, working with the senior detectives, the homicide command

to actually gather further evidence and get witnesses on board for that incident. >> seesahai your thoughts? >> seesahai your thoughts? >> well, obviously these were devastating attacks and my condolences are to the families of the victims. i think it's a horrific thing for that community to have to go through. it's a horrific thing. i think for the country to go through. i think it's arguably the biggest horror since dunblane that has been inflicted. and so it's understandable that emotions are running high. but what i will say is undergirding all of this, which i think is what you're alluding to, is that is this deep problem that we have large swathes of this country that feel like their concerns are not being listened to. they're not only are they not listened to when they espouse perfectly reasonable concerns, but they're sneered at, they're condemned. they're called names. their lives end up getting ruined. and what happens when this sort of thing takes hold? any student of history will tell you that resentment starts to manifest itself in unpleasant, very

unpleasant and unpredictable ways. and i think, as you alluded to, these are deep seated problems now in this country that we have to address. >> indeed. and we are going to address them tonight, you know, i do actually believe we need to have difficult conversations in our society. too many people shy away from them. i won't be shying away from them. but for now, andy, how do you react to what you saw last night? >> well, i mean, i agree with everyone else. it's a horrendous, unimaginable incident that's happened. anything that involves violence against children is really, really awful. and we can't stress enough how serious and horrific the original incident was. i think violent disorder of any kind is not the answer , and any kind is not the answer, and there can be no excuse and no reason for that. it is not acceptable to go out onto the streets and take matters into your own hands. you have to let due process the law, the police, people who know what they're doing deal with these sorts of incidents. it's not about going

out and being violent or sort of vigilante attacks. i think that's really unacceptable. whatever the reasoning. >> can i ask you from a policing perspective, because it doesn't feel like long ago at all that we saw riots happen in harehills in leeds, different circumstances. but notwithstanding that, i would argue very similar activities undertaken . we saw angry mobs on undertaken. we saw angry mobs on the streets. we saw, you know, walls being ripped up . we saw walls being ripped up. we saw a bus set on fire, fridges, set on fire. we saw incredibly violent scenes. but what i'm playing on my screens right now are some of those violent scenes. but we saw such a different policing approach between harehills and southport in harehills. i'm not being rude to the police officers, i'm just observing. they ran away . they let that they ran away. they let that community, essentially, they let that anger fizzle out. for want of a better word, last night was

very different. we saw batons, shields , police dogs. why are shields, police dogs. why are the different approach? >> well , last the different approach? >> well, last night you saw what happened by. which was sheer thuggery and hooliganism. i don't buy that. you know, people are angry and people are not being heard. and three children died, were murdered as a result of, you know, of what happened in the last couple of days. that does not justify anybody going along and venting their anger out. >> respectfully. you're not answering my question . my answering my question. my question is so the question the answer is the difference is yesterday there was intelligence to suggest that there were likely to be some form of protest. >> so police came along with their some of their what you call level two trained officers. so they would have had the batons, they would have had shields. they would have had the police vans that you saw when you had the incident, the leeds, what actually happened there were police were called to a location because children had been taken away by social services. so local officers actually attended that and very, very quickly. it was a very

spontaneous incident. it escalated and it got really badly out of control. the priority for those particular officers was to take those social services people out of that situation to prevent them from being injured. they didn't have the resources, they didn't have the resources, they didn't have the resources, they didn't have the capability. and they certainly didn't have the tools to deal with a mob later on. other officers did attend , and other officers did attend, and they too ran away, what? actually, they found was the mob was far too great for them. and there are benefits sometimes when you look at, some of the incidents, serious protests that have gone on in the past and serious violence for police officers to actually withdraw from a location, they have to benefit. they have to look at the balance that with protecting themselves, protecting the public. but also there's vulnerabilities of members of the public, because what you don't want is for those to turn on themselves with respect. >> how can the police running away be in service of keeping the public safe? surely the pubuc the public safe? surely the public were left to fend for themselves by the police fleeing. >> the police came along to that situation and they were confronted with far bigger mobs.

by confronted with far bigger mobs. by that time, the mobs were far too big. as i've explained. those kind of organisations have very small number of resources. for example, yesterday they had to call upon lancashire officers to call upon lancashire officers to come down to that particular scene . today they know that scene. today they know that there has been some intelligence to suggest that there may be some violence. >> look at these screens, though, because what we're seeing you're saying about, you know, you had all this additional resource. i am not well versed in all the different, titles that you give police officers, but to us, you know, members of the public, they just look like your frontline police officers, the majority of them, like, look, you've got some specialist ones coming in now, but the majority of these officers are just dressed the way that you would encounter a bobby on the beat. so i'm still not understanding respectfully why, when you had ill equipped look, looks from equipment wise police officers in southport, they stood and fought those rioters, whereas in harehills they ran away from them. because we're sitting here today with two riots, both of them completely unacceptable. let me be clear on that. but

we've got a huge police casualty on the southport one because the police responded in a different way. >> they didn't run away, michelle, they withdrew and they withdrew with good reason because of the fact is the mobs were far too for big them to confront and for them to deal with. look at yesterday is a classic example. 53 officers assaulted eight of those. seriously. okay, so that will give you an indication that had those officers actually stayed within that situation, it would have been far more serious and it would have culminated it could potentially end up with something like a situation where many years ago, we lost the lives of an officer, pc keith blakelock. let's not forget that. >> remember that , look, the >> remember that, look, the reason i'm pushing you on this is because there will be a sense, one of the reasons that there is such a ill feeling in society among many people is so many people will feel that currently in our society, there is a complete and utter two tier policing approach. there feels like, i don't know if you are a minority group that go out and protest, you will be handed cups of tea, you will have the police

kind of pave a way, you will have a retreat and so on. and so forth. if you're a white british working class individual, you will face force. so i want to explore this a little bit more. after the break, i'll come back into.

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you until 7:00 tonight alongside me, shabnam chowdhury , alongside me, shabnam chowdhury, zia yousef and andy williams. let's just carry on this conversation, i'm just putting to you. you are a former, i was going to say top boss in the met police, i'm putting to you this sentiment that many people have that there is a two tier policing approach. i've explained to you that, people see, different opinion responses on the two riots and so on and so forth. what's your reaction to that? yeah, interesting. >> i think that part of this has really sort of ignited as a

result of the, pro—palestinian protests that we've seen for the last 8 to 9 months where many members of the public feel that insufficient numbers of those protesters are actually being arrested, or that they've been described as hate marches, especially particularly by, previously suella braverman , previously suella braverman, which doesn't help at all. and then what happens is that you get protests like this and people are arrested, and it results in a lot of violence. those protests resulted in ever since then, something like 500 arrests. that doesn't include the city of london and the other forces. but what police work on the basis of is, first of all, information and intelligence. if there's a likelihood that there's a likelihood that there's going to be serious violence and obviously they can consider putting a stop to those protests, or they can put restrictions in place in terms of static or so on, i don't personally see it as two tier policing. i think every situation has to be dealt with

on a nurse who's here. >> policing, in your view, the are your thoughts? >> well, look, firstly i sympathise with the argument that our police force is woefully under—resourced. you know, as the party of law and order reform would one of our pledges is we will recruit and train tens of thousands of police officers with significant extra budget. we will, including a rapid response riot police team. we will ensure the police know that we have their backs so that they can go in and do their jobs and enforce the law without fear nor favour. look, in terms of two tier policing, what is clear is that there is a perception, frankly, of quite a popular perception, that there is two tier policing in this country that in itself is a very, very significant problem. and so, look, if we look at the approach that was taken in harehills, where not only did those awful things you just mentioned, michel, happen , but a mentioned, michel, happen, but a police car, you know, it's this awful image which perhaps encapsulates the state the country is in now of a police car being upturned by about 3030

men. i have no idea yet how many arrests have actually been made. but the last communication i saw from that police force was that, quote, a handful of arrests have been made. i know our mps have been made. i know our mps have been asking questions of the home secretary and got no response. and there's deep concern that photo in itself. there's 30, 40 people committing crimes against our police officers. and by the way, the horrible thing about that having happened just a couple of weeks ago, if that is that it sets a precedent. once you essentially say that our police officers, you know, our brave policemen and women are not off limits, you can do that. i mean, you then juxtapose that with the fact that in this country, 95% of crimes result in no conviction. of those, a tiny, precious few are incarcerated. we have lacking of space in our prisons. thanks in no small part to 14 years of conservative government. these are all really, really big issues. i agree we have to solve those problems, but fundamentally we have to have a government that tells the police that they have their back. we need a well resourced police force, and we need them to apply the law

evenly and i just want to bring andy in, actually. >> and whilst i'm doing this, i'll actually play some scenes. some of you might have seen these scenes now about in southend because whilst we're talking about southport in southend, it was absolute carnage. if you if you're listening on the radio, i'll describe the scenes that will be playing for you in a second. just a load of, people charging around in broad daylight with machetes. >> i mean, i mean, it's horrendous, but i'd say three things. firstly, i think we have a general. there's a general crisis of confidence in many of our institutions at the moment, and the police are high on that list. and i understand why i'm a bit more optimistic than usere, because i think and it's early days. >> but i think, andy, you're looking at these screens and you feel optimistic. >> i mean, with caveats . >> i mean, with caveats. absolutely. i mean, we've had a really awful few days in many parts of the country with really, really serious incidents. these are i don't believe these are connected incidents. i think they're isolated. and i think we have a new government that is going to

be much more thoughtful, strategic and is going to resource the police and other institutions better and more thoughtfully. and i think that's thoughtfully. and i think that's thoughtful or strategic thing that yvette cooper has done since taking office. well, we're three weeks in or four weeks in. >> so it's a riot a week. and we've had a riot a week since. >> but can i, can i? sorry i just wanted to say i did want to pick you up on one thing, which is i'm, i'm, i'm concerned about some of the language you're using where you're saying or you're suggesting that some of these incidents are the result of people's concerns not being listened to. yeah. none of this . listened to. yeah. none of this. none of this is an acceptable response to people saying that. no, no, i know you didn't say that, but you did say people's concerns aren't being listened to. yeah, that's true. well, that makes that doesn't mean that makes that doesn't mean that may be the case, but this but this. yeah, let's be clear. >> i don't want anyone misrepresenting zero or anyone else thinks not a single person on this panel thinks that you should be able to trash your

communities, hurt police officers, damage religious places of work, of worship. every single one of us. >> and i condemn all those things in the strongest possible terms. >> i can condemn all those things absolutely. and then you can simultaneously believe that there are underlying causes that are making people angry, furious , are making people angry, furious, raging, and i just want to stand up for you there because i just want to make clear, zia was not saying that because there's concerns that behaviour is okay, and i'm not suggesting that zia was drawing a direct causal link. >> but i think we need to be clear that you need to really, really , definitely separate really, definitely separate those things out. but we are because we have done and i started the whole show on this premise that not a single person, not a single right minded person anyway, would ever think that anyway, would ever think that any of the scenes that we've seen in harehills, in southport, no sane minded individual would think that they were okay. >> and if you do think they're okay, if you're watching this program and you sitting there thinking, well, actually i think it's okay to damage places of worship or batter police officers, then respectfully, you

might just going to watch want to watch a different programme because that's not something that we advocate. what we are saying is we're drawing a line and separating and saying, separate to that, there are absolutely concerns in society that are not being heard from people. there is a frustration and unless we have honest and truthful conversations about this , none of society will start this, none of society will start moving forward in a better place. we're going to have constant unease, constant dissatisfaction, constant anger. and i guess that's what i'm trying to do on this programme tonight. some surprise that you don't think that there's any concerns out there that don't get listened to. no i'm not saying that. >> i'm not saying that's the case. what i'm saying is i think what you said. no, no, no, no. >> well, to be fair, i actually did come in and mention that i didn't feel that it was justified. i sensed what zia was implying was that people are angry and maybe i got that wrong. and therefore, you know, the voices are not being heard. and this was a culmination of what's their voice is not being heard. but i think one really

important point is every single one of the political parties, and i am not getting involved in the politics of it. they all come back with the same rhetoric. we're going to increase your policing. we're going to give you, you know, you're going to have our back. we're going to do better policing at the moment, the most recent party have just increased police pay. that's a really good start. you can't get police officers to join. you can't get police officers to stay. they're leaving. it's like a revolving door at the moment . trust and door at the moment. trust and confidence, as you said, and is a fact, is rock bottom across uk policing because people don't trust the police and in order to get trust in the police, you're going to have to build better training, better vetting. there's a whole host of issues behind that. so before you start recruiting hundreds of police officers, which you're not going to be able to get, you need to start looking at the reforming policing and look at what the institutional issues are within policing. >> and let me ask you about policing , do you think because policing, do you think because i don't envy police officers, particularly the frontline ones, i think they have a terrible job

and they do put themselves in harm's way every day of their lives, and i respect them for doing so. but if i remove it from the frontline officers because i don't want to put this onto them, but i want to make it more about management and priorities and strategies, do you think policing, on the whole, as its priorities right in this country? >> i think they get too many priorities to deal with and the whole situation gets diluted. i think it needs better and stronger leadership for sure. within policing, you've got frontline. >> should i tell you why i ask? because there is a perception. a lot of my viewers are watching this and they'll be writing in and they'll be saying they feel there's a sentiment, there's a sense that so much of police time now is spent on, policing, like just things that wouldn't be a priority. your your attending, protests and taking knees, not you, but please collectively, painting police cars to look like some kind of clown , apparatus missing in clown, apparatus missing in

filling in diversity forms, policing has to reflect the communities that it serves. >> that means having people of all different, diverse backgrounds within policing . i backgrounds within policing. i absolutely support community policing, and that means having neighbourhood officers that go in and work with local communities, whether it's with religious, establishments or whether it's with the education system, schools officers and so on. these are all part and parcel important to policing. what you need is far more front line officers who are out there able to do the job, able to be able to do the job, able to be able to do the job, able to be able to investigate given the tools and the skills to be able tools and the skills to be able to police better. you can't even get police officers to arrest shoplifters at the moment. and that's a real problem at the moment. >> part of the reason for that. so i actually agree with a lot of the things that you just said. i just think i have said. ijust think i have a slightly different diagnosis. the fundamental problem is a lot of the police officers and i speak to a lot of them too, is that they feel like if they go in to make an arrest on certain

minority groups, they that could get filmed. it goes viral online. they get sold up the river by their bosses and by the political class in this country. and when we talk about saying, you know, we have their backs, what it means is actually having their backs. so again, when we talk about double standards, yvette cooper, who described the violence yesterday as thuggish and also absolutely right, by the way , that's the correct the way, that's the correct assessment and the right language. where was that language. where was that language at harehills? where was when a police car was flipped upside down? and i promise you, everyone who attacked the police yesterday would have seen that violence. and seen how it was de facto, i would argue, condoned by our home secretary. where was her? where was her outrage when a female police officer had her face smashed in at manchester airport? not a word from yvette cooper to condemn that. that this is this is despicable in my view. and we need to have a home secretary in this country who actually has our police officers back. otherwise, all those problems you just described will not change. >> well, listen, you are never, ever going to get away from social media, from people

filming, from taking images of what police officers do. you get to see short clips of certain incidents of a far bigger picture, but my point on that would be if you're a police officer and you're scared because you think you're going to be referred to as racist, either you are going to deal with something unethically and inappropriately. if your professional, if you're ethical, if you deal with a situation and you treat people with dignity and respect, the same way that you would like your own mother and your own sister and your own aunfie and your own sister and your own auntie treated, then you're not going to have a problem. but when you've got officers and you do get some that are gung ho, that go out there, that are bolshy, that are disrespectful to members of the public, you're going to get it filmed. and with the greatest respect. >> and you know this clearly better than i do because you've served in our police force. while that sounds great on the front of a clinton card, when you are a firearms officer at manchester airport, by the way, a place that is for prime terrorist attack, and you are set upon by violent assailants, right? unfortunately, the world

is not as clear as that. there are. >> let's just be very, very clear on that situation. those two thugs that beat up the officers that broke the officer's nose need to see the need to be brought to justice without a question, without a question , i absolutely support question, i absolutely support that. i feel sick when i. >> have they been charged? have they been charged with a crime? >> that's it's in police. it's being investigated. you've got to look at the whole bigger picture, the whole matter. we've got to investigate a quick question. and that police officer that kicked that young man that was prone in the floor, on the floor, who actually had, been, tasered already, needs to been, tasered already, needs to be also dealt with. can i just ask you a held to account about charging scene as you brought up the charging? >> what's taking so long, in your professional opinion, to charge, the person that's been arrested in southport in southport? yeah. we're going back to the right. >> yeah. well he's they've had an extension on his on his arrest. they're allowed to keep him for more than 24 hours. they've asked for a further extension to detain him, to speak to him . when you look at

speak to him. when you look at a situation you think it's clear cut. it's not. the fact is, an individual has gone into a location. they've got to provide sufficient evidence that will hold court in a court of law with 12 jurors to be able to say, we've got sufficient evidence here that are going to bnng evidence here that are going to bring him to justice, that are going to have him convicted. this only happened on monday. we're now on to wednesday. >> interesting insights. look, andy was just mentioning the fact that he doesn't actually feel that there are concerns that people have in society that are completely ignored. i strongly disagree with that. i can think of one off the top of my head. many people will say, hang on a second, michelle. we've all got about things like immigration. everyone ignores those concerns, not me. we'll

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company until 7:00 tonight alongside brazier yousef, the chairman of reform uk and andy

williams, the political commentator. david, he's been in touch saying michelle, so many people, we feel like we are ignored and we are treated with contempt. gary says , michelle, contempt. gary says, michelle, things will only get better when politicians actually listen to our concerns. the sense that people have concerns that have been ignored. it's coming through quite a lot from all of you guys at home. i want to get to the root of what is causing so much anger and frustration in the streets of britain before the streets of britain before the break, you were just saying, andy, that you didn't feel that people do have concerns that are not listened to. i find that fascinating because i'll tell you now, one of the primary concerns that people have, and many people have that are not listened to, is people want controlled immigration in this country. they want these boats to be turned back. nobody's listening at all. >> so i didn't say that. i said, i don't think the scenes we've seen over the last few days in southport, in southend and elsewhere in leeds are the result of concerns not being

listened to. i think those scenes are an instinctive response to really awful, incidents . absolutely. there are incidents. absolutely. there are people who have all sorts of concerns that aren't being listened to . and these and i listened to. and these and i think the problem is these concerns are complex. they're very, very difficult to resolve . very, very difficult to resolve. and frankly, they're going to take, in some cases, a generation to resolve. and do i think people let me give you an example, because if you have the audacity in this country to say that you want borders to be controlled, you will immediately be called far right. no, i don't think that's true as well. >> actually, i don't think that's true. >> i think there's no i really don't think i ever stood and called for controlled borders and for them to stop the boats. no, because that's not my. >> but then you probably have never experienced being called racist. hang on far right with the seconds of you doing so. >> that's not my personal view, right? but stepping away from my personal view, there is probably a majority of people in this country who are in favour of lower immigration controlled

borders. i think the problem is a problem of trust because we had a government for 14 years that consistently said, we're going to bring immigration down, net migration down into the hundreds, into the tens of thousands. sorry, below 100,000. and they failed. they didn't just fail, they failed spectacularly, which is why zia is, running or is leading a party that did very, very well at the general election and picked up 14% of the vote because people didn't trust the conservative party on migration anymore . so do i think that's anymore. so do i think that's not a concern? i mean, it'd be ludicrous to say it wasn't a concern. it is a huge concern. my question is, how do you actually resolve that? and the answer is it's complicated with the greatest of respect. >> it's actually not that complicated. it is. we need to secure our borders. we need our secure our borders. we need our secure our borders. we need to bring. come on to that a second. we need to bring, legal migration down. we essentially need to freeze non—essential migration for a period of time so that we can assimilate those who are here and build enough infrastructure to deal with the people of britain , who deserve

people of britain, who deserve to deserve to be able to get a gp appointment to deserve to not die. hundreds of british people die. hundreds of british people die every week in accident and emergency, completely avoidable due to our lack of infrastructure and because of the population explosion. and listen, i will sit here and totally agree with you that 14 years of tory rule has led us into this mire and we're hurtling towards an abyss. but when you talk about credibility and trust, if we look at how many illegal migrants have crossed the channel by boat since keir starmer took power, we are on course for more illegal migrants to make that journey under a labour government than the last conservative government. >> can we deal with two separate things here? so firstly, i think if you look at legal migration, thatis if you look at legal migration, that is a much, much, much higher number than illegal migration. so i think i'm right in saying about 50,000 people a year come to the uk on small boats, cross the channel. last yearit boats, cross the channel. last year it was about 700, 650,000 people through legal migration. that was the result of and i know we're agreeing here, that was the result of boris

johnson's brexit deal. that was actually very liberal on legal migration. so that's one question on illegal migration. thatis question on illegal migration. that is a very, very, very difficult challenge to solve. i don't think you can lay that at the door of keir starmer four weeks into a labour government. why not now? because because they've not had any time to implement any significant reform time. >> you just have to take those boats back to france, which they have done actually on one occasion with success. and then stop doing it remarkably, i think what it's about is it's a more long term relationship building question with european interest class powers to claim that these are complex problems to solve. they are so that they can continue to inflict on the british people, a population explosion, misery caused when people need to get gp appointments or, you know, young people. a third of our young adults still live at home with their parents. you talk about legal migration numbers, not just last year. so over the last three years, 1.8 million net new people arrived in the country.

we built 600,000 odd houses. by the way, that was going. that was as good as we've done in about 50 years. so we're building one third as many new homes as we need to just satiate the demand from the net new arrivals. these are not complicated problems to solve. >> i mean, again, i think we're in agreement in a lot of places. we need to be building more houses. we need to be building more infrastructure. >> yes. but we also need to, you know, just focusing on the supply side and completely ignonng supply side and completely ignoring the demand explosion is like trying to put out a forest fire with a water pistol. >> i've got to say, there'll be many people shouting at the screen right now. i can hear you. are you going, michelle? it's not just about building more of this and expanding more of that. it's about stopping the population increase at the rate of knots that it's currently happening. do you think some

hi there , michelle dewberry a&e hi there, michelle dewberry a&e williams and zia yousef till 7:00. one of my viewers, julie. she said , we're talking about

she said, we're talking about immigration, but what she's saying here is what about the multiculturalism? what about the way that societies and communities are changing that's making many people uncomfortable ? making many people uncomfortable? >> what do you say to that? i totally understand those concerns. i share those concerns. i share those concerns. you know, reform and everybody involved in reform and the people, the 4 million people who voted reform care deeply about british values. and, you know, when our leader, nigel farage asks questions of our authorities, he essentially gets shouted down saying how dare you question nigel farage was called tommy robinson and all sorts of names, all sorts of ad hominem attacks because they can't those people are unwilling and unable to engage on the substance of the issues. going back to the point about culture, look, whatever religion you have, whichever god you pray to, even if you pray to no god, we have to focus on the things that we share. and if you come to this country, you need to assimilate. you need to embrace british values. >> people are not. it's all well and good. exactly. that's what you should do. but they're not. i agree that's the issue that a

lot of people have. in fact, not only are they're not assimilating, they actively despise western values and want to cause harm to us as much as possible. as a result . possible. as a result. >> absolutely. and again, part of that is the extraordinary numbers that have come in at the same in a very short period of time. again, i use the example of my parents who came here in the 1980s when net migration was around 30 to 50,000 per year. as nigel says . nigel farage says, nigel says. nigel farage says, we had one of arguably the most successful immigration regime in the whole of europe. what's happened now, you know that 30 to 50,000 number is compared to the 650,000 who arrived last yeah the 650,000 who arrived last year. when you have such large numbers of people arriving in a short period of time, often living in small clusters, they do not assimilate and therefore they they do not share the british values that we hold dean >> and i think the important i mean, there are many things, you said, zia, that i don't disagree with. i think the important thing to say is that multiculturalism is not incompatible with british values. right? british values can be taken on by anybody from

anywhere in the world. i think we'd all agree with that. >> but then that's not multicultural. with respect. we're talking about definitions, british values are our culture. >> but i understand what you're saying. but you can have your own particular culture, but subscribe to and accept british values. they don't necessarily need to be in competition. it's not it's not an either or. >> would you accept that lots of people are coming here and they don't subscribe to british values? and this is the rub for many people. >> i'm sure that's the case with some people. i'm sure that, i mean, it would be. it wouldn't make sense to say that there was nobody in britain who didn't subscribe to british values. i don't believe that there is an issue on the scale in the way that some people would describe it. has your community where you live changed? well, look , hands live changed? well, look, hands up. i'm a i'm a privileged person who lives in london. it's the most multicultural city in the most multicultural city in the world. everyone kind of gets along. i live in a very multicultural part of london, so

it's not. it's not. i think about where i grew up now and in particular, some of the streets that i would frequent, if you go to those streets now, it is unrecognisable from when it was when i was spending my youth there . there. >> if you can find a shop in there , that is, i don't know, there, that is, i don't know, you've got, a polish butcher, a halal butcher , a goodness only halal butcher, a goodness only knows what. but michelle, with with all due respect, my question back to you. >> there would be. what's the problem with that? >> well, it's different. >> well, it's different. >> it is different. but what's wrong with different? what's wrong with different? what's wrong with different? what's wrong with different? >> this is what i'm saying to you. no one asked the communities. do you? do you sign up for your communities changing unrecognisably people were not consulted in that. in fact, actually, when people were put to the ballot, when it comes to, you know, elections and so on and so forth, what people actually voted for was parties that promised that immigration was going to reduce . and by was going to reduce. and by definition, if your immigration

is reducing, your communities are not going to be changing at the rate of pace that they currently are. well, then many people would have an issue with that. >> i mean, i think there's a that comes back to a question of trust, which is that people were told for years and years that immigration was going to go down, net migration was going to go down as the tens of thousands. that didn't happen. and that's that's incompetence as well as potentially a lack of willingness to do it in the first place. >> i think to it all at home, i worry for our society, actually, if anyone is thinking about taking to the streets a completely, feel a lot of your anger and frustration, i can feel it again coming through, on the inbox tonight. all i would implore anyone is, smashing things up, setting to fire things, damaging police officers, damaging, places of worship . that's not how you get worship. that's not how you get your point ahead. but i do believe as we're trying to get to the root of that, there are fundamental problems in this society. i'm sure we'll continue to discuss them another day , but

to discuss them another day, but for now, thank you both. and thank you to each and every one of you at home. i'll see you tomorrow night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar, sponsors of weather on gb news >> hello. good evening . welcome >> hello. good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather update brought to you from the met office. increasingly humid overnight with a threat of thunderstorms, but it will remain largely dry across northern areas. plenty of sunshine to come this evening and through tomorrow . here. high and through tomorrow. here. high pressure still dominating, but it is drifting away to the east and low pressure will arrive from the south as well as from the west throughout the rest of this week. now across the southeast this evening, there's a risk of some heavy downpours, but overnight that that risk becomes more widespread, pushing into parts of wales northern and central areas of england , as central areas of england, as well as sticking around in the south—east as well. and it's going to be a humid night for many areas , drier and slightly many areas, drier and slightly fresher across eastern areas of scotland. however, now into

tomorrow morning there's a chance of some very heavy downpours. there's a warning in force for much of thursday for a large proportion of england and wales that could affect anywhere east of wales, really across much of england. and that risk bnngs much of england. and that risk brings a potential for some travel disruption, heavy downpours, frequent lightning and potentially some quite large hail as well. so do keep up to date with the forecast throughout the day on thursday, across parts of scotland, though, particularly eastern scotland, it should be a dry start , but sunshine will be start, but sunshine will be fairly limited. it should be a bright start across western areas of england and wales, though , and plenty of sunshine though, and plenty of sunshine to come across western areas. but once the sun does break out across central and eastern areas of england, there's a further risk of some heavy downpours . risk of some heavy downpours. further travel disruption is expected through thursday. not everywhere will see these thunderstorms, but where you do see them, they could bring some fairly major impacts. it's going to be another humid day. temperatures in the mid to high 20s once again on friday. it looks fairly dry to start the day. there's a risk of some further downpours across eastern areas into the afternoon, but

looking further west, there is a change on the way. a weather front wrapped around an area of low pressure will bring fresher, wetter and windier weather as we head into the weekend, so showery weather, particularly across north western areas, a little bit drier and brighter across the south and east, looks like things are heating up boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb

>> riots in southport last night. many police officers injured all of this following the horrendous murder of those three young girls and in particular a massive pile on sponsored by the bbc on me for danng sponsored by the bbc on me for daring to ask who the attacker was and whether he was someone the authorities were interested in. will debate all of that

tonight, and i shall say, is it fair and reasonable to ask questions or should we simply shut up and go home? also last night in southend , a machete night in southend, a machete attack people on the streets fighting with machetes. is this part of the societal decline that i was talking about in the general election? and finally, the chancellor, rachel reeves, comes clean. she will put taxes up on the 30th of october in the budget. all of that and much more in just a moment. first, let's get the . news. let's get the. news. >> good evening. the top story from the gb newsroom tonight is that police say they're aware of plans for further unrest for southport tonight in reaction to false claims swirling on social media that a muslim had killed three local girls, disorder broke out yesterday evening outside a mosque following speculation about the 17 year

old suspect, who's now