. the enough is enough stabbings. the enough is enough demonstration, they say , must demonstration, they say, must end at 830 this evening. well, also in the news today, the bbc has admitted they knew about the arrest of the former newsreader huw edwards, five months before he resigned in april. but the corporation says it would only have sacked him if he'd been charged while being a member of staff earlier on the metropolitan police confirmed that the man who sent the former presenter indecent images of children was a convicted paedophile. mr edwards had 41, of the most serious type of photographs in his whatsapp messages chat, including one of a child as young as seven years old, angela rayner is playing down suggestions of a backlash against the government's house building drive as she launches a new towns taskforce. the deputy prime minister says restoring mandatory housing targets for local authorities is a key part of the government's plan to ease

a shortage of housing. but there are also plans to drop the previous government's requirement for those new homes to be beautiful, with labour arguing that is a subjective judgement. now a homeless man who pushed a stranger onto the tracks at a london tube station was found guilty today of attempted murder. kurdish migrant boa sorche, who's 24, shoved tadeus potucek off the platform at oxford circus in central london. he narrowly missed touching the live rail and was quickly helped back onto the platform by another passengerjust before the platform by another passenger just before the train arrived in the station. the driver of that oncoming train saying if he'd been on the tracks just a few seconds more, he would have been killed. turning now to news in the middle east, where both foreign and defence secretaries are on a visit, as benjamin netanyahu vowed tonight to continue in his war against hamas. the israeli prime minister praised his military for its strike on the

lebanese capital, beirut, which killed a senior hezbollah commander. meanwhile, iran's promised harsh punishment for the assassination of a hamas leader on its soil. ismail haniya died in a strike on the iranian capital, which the terror group is blaming on israel. though the israeli government has refused to comment. some better news to end this bulletin on, though, for you, a roundup of today's olympic action sees team gb landing two more golds at the paris games and both coming in quite a dramatic fashion as well . quite a dramatic fashion as well. alex yee snatching victory in the very closing stages of the men's triathlon. congratulations to him! while the women's quadruple sculls rowers pipped the netherlands right at the post to secure their gold, and their sensational comeback puts britain fourth in the medal table. those are the latest headunes table. those are the latest headlines from gb news. for now, i'm polly middlehurst. i'm back in an hour. see you then for the very latest gb news direct to

your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . slash alerts. >> good evening. as i was on air last night and we were debating just how we should respond to the just truly horrific attack and murder of those three young girls up in southport. i raised a couple of questions. i said, why is it these days, whenever something happens, we're told almost immediately it's a non terror attack. and i was very struck the week before in kent that the lieutenant colonel in full uniform is stabbed and nearly killed in the street. it's a non terror attack. i also asked in the wake of the murder that we saw there was declared to be terrorism in hartlepool some time last year. that it seems whenever these things happen, there is a reluctance to

tell us the full truth and indeedin tell us the full truth and indeed in the kent case, the police in kent were telling all the broadcasters the need to play the broadcasters the need to play down the incident. so i asked why what had happened in southport was a non terror incident. i also asked whether, amidst a sea of speculation , the amidst a sea of speculation, the 17 year old involved had been under the watch of our authorities. well, i was asking some gentle questions that i thought were fair and reasonable at the same time. the internet was awash with all sorts of theories, all of which proved to be unfounded. but that's what led to the riots last night . led to the riots last night. that's what led to people being outside that mosque in southport. you know, sometimes just tell the public the truth and you might actually stop riots from happening. well, that doesn't matter because it's me. so i listen to the bbc this

morning radio four's today programme to be greeted by brendan cox. now brendan cox used to work for save the children . he's held up to be children. he's held up to be this paragon of virtue. although the circumstances after claims of all sorts of sexual misconduct under which he left , misconduct under which he left, wouldn't necessarily suggest to me that he was a paragon of virtue. but of course, his wife jo had the misfortune to be murdered in what was undoubtedly a terrorist murderer, so he's held up to be somebody who can speak on these things. he was brendan cox on what happened in southport last night on bbc's radio four, but the willingness of supposedly mainstream politicians, somebody like nigel farage, to put out that kind of, insinuation that that line of, you know, is, is the truth being withheld from us.7 >> not do we not know some of the answers to this, which we certainly don't. but is the

truth being withheld from us.7 is this person being monitored? some people say they are. it's right out of the trump playbook. and in my view, it makes nigel farage nothing better than a tommy robinson in a suit. it is beyond the pale, to use a moment like this to spread your narrative and to spread your hatred. and we saw the results on southport streets last night . on southport streets last night. >> so there we are. there was brendan cox , the high priest of brendan cox, the high priest of virtue, alongside him there was a representative of hope, not hate. yes, you would have thought to listen to these people that i was arm in glove with tommy robinson, which i never have been and never, ever will be. you would also think i'd been insightful, encouraging people to head to southport, none of which were true. and interestingly, a lot of labour mps attacked me , and i suspect mps attacked me, and i suspect that's because the labour party know there is a very deep sense of unease out there in this country as to what is going on, andifs country as to what is going on, and it's not just what happened

in southport, it's what happened later on that evening in southend , which i will come to. southend, which i will come to. it's the marches, it's the mob violence. it's the situation in leeds where the police literally withdraw and allow a riot to continue , and it's also in many, continue, and it's also in many, many cases, a feeling of double standards of policing. but i also spoke today to a northern ireland member of parliament, somebody of a certain age who'd lived through the troubles, and he said, well, whenever there was an outrage in northern ireland, the first question anybody asked was who was the perpetrator? and had we been let down by the security services? i think what i asked was perfectly fair and reasonable. i think if my questions have been answered, that mosque would not have been attacked last night. let me ask you , is it fair and reasonable you, is it fair and reasonable to ask questions in circumstances like this? give me your thoughts . farage @gbnews

your thoughts. farage @gbnews .com . well, joining me down the .com. well, joining me down the line, somebody else who joined in the pylon is former conservative member of parliament for bournemouth tobias ellwood. tobias you and i don't always agree on things . we don't always agree on things. we normally have a degree of mutual respect . do you understand why? respect. do you understand why? i think had people known the truth, had they known that this was not somebody as was being said online, who crossed the engush said online, who crossed the english channel in a dinghy in october 2023, we might not have had riots on that scale in southport last night. >> well, firstly, thank you for inviting me on your show and let me just perhaps sell out my set, out my stall and i'll be grateful to hear your thoughts. i mean , we've spoken many times i mean, we've spoken many times as on air and indeed off air as well. there's much that we're augned well. there's much that we're aligned on as you suggest, not least uk defence and security, where we've disagreed, we've done so with respect. you know, without the conversation heading south, as though often political discourse descends these days,

and where there's a difference of opinion, it's in that spirit of opinion, it's in that spirit of keeping the bar high, we, you know, i hope we can have a frank conversation about this. better understand each other's views. that i join you today on this. i think. i hope you would agree that we need to begin by, recognising the loss of life here. that's where our first thoughts should be with the three that have been killed and the others that have been injured. but as you said in your introduction, there's now a wider community suffering. and not just struggling and coming to terms with this horrible attack, but the subsequent orchestrated, sickening, violent riots. that's taken place, leaving police officers injured, some of them very, very seriously indeed. and it is those false claims , the those false claims, the disinformation, which you quite rightly point out on the internet, whipping up that frenzy of hate, spreading disinformation, encouraging the engush disinformation, encouraging the english defence league, who's rallied his supporters with the sole intent of stirring up hate and seeking to divide. and it's this incident which raises so

many if we're going to prevent this from happening in the future, the speed in which fake news went from swirling around onune news went from swirling around online to the violence offline, the failure of twitter also that should be aware that speculation was going to rise. why didn't they properly police the platform? and then this has come to you, sir. the role of influential voices such as yours and my humble request is to recognise what you say matters. you know, you, sir, have a reach and an influence well beyond most mps. you know, people listen to you. they form their views by what you say . it's one views by what you say. it's one thing to affect and disrupt mainstream thinking, as you've done very effectively over the last decade or so or longer in political matters . but i political matters. but i respectfully ask you to recognise that when it comes to matters of security and indeed terrorism, because that's the word you use, something that's directly affected my life , that directly affected my life, that those with a public profile do need to be aware of how their words could be taken out of context, especially when it comes relating to terrorism, not

least islamic extremism. that simply my position, which i hope you would agree or at least understand. >> yeah, i mean, the edl element of it, i'm sure there were some edl activists that came in from other parts of the north west, also true to say that most people on those streets last night did actually live in southport, and, you know , to southport, and, you know, to listen to the bbc this morning, you'd have thought that everybody had been shipped in, from sort of outer space, which clearly wasn't true. and the arrests and the stats do prove that. tobias, i would argue this i would come back at you by saying this had my questions been answered clearly, we would have ended much of that false fake news speculation that was going on on social media. and, you know, there is a deep sense of unease in this country that something is going wrong. have we been told a bit more? and i know the guy was 17, and that makes it more complicated. and i do get that . i think it's

do get that. i think it's reasonable that i ask those questions , and i don't believe questions, and i don't believe anything i did in any way was stirring up disorder. in fact, i put it to you if i'd been answered clearly, the riots would have been smaller. >> well, you touched on something absolutely fundamental to our law. it would have been illegal to actually spell out the circumstances, given that this was a minor, a 17 year old. now, maybe that's a question that now needs to be deliberated, but that's for you to take to the home affairs committee or raise in parliament. my concern is, is that you are now a political leader. your you're in parliament itself , leader. your you're in parliament itself, regardless of party. i hope that you'd always put the country's interests first because has this been good for britain? what happened last night? it's very easy to play on people's anxieties, on their angen people's anxieties, on their anger, their frustrations. and there's much to be concerned about. you and i can have a big debate about where our world is going, why we're not doing enough. but parliament must look for solutions and parliamentarians must offer the wisdom and the leadership that

offers answers. we must do nothing to absolutely inflame the situation. i will agree with you in part about keeping people informed. we had a terrible incident in bournemouth here where a couple of people lost their lives, because of a freak wave that came through and they drowned. the speculation that came through that it was to do with one of the boats, the big, big, boats that operate in this area. the boat operator lost his job because of it. it had nothing to do with it. but the police were very slow in providing information. >> now, the truth matters. yeah, yeah, the truth matters. >> speculation to go overboard. it really did from there. i do absolutely agree with you. i simply plea with you that you must recognise that your comments, particularly on terrorism, that i lost my brother in the bali bombing. okay. you know that i've been affected by terrorism not once, but a number of times in my life. so when people use that word and it's rife, it's still there. we've got isis, k that's going to grow larger than al—qaeda. what are we doing about it? these are important questions that you and i can

spend a lot of time discussing and debating. but when we tie it up in what's going on in the southport, until we have the information, you know, this person i understand may have been from rwanda. rwanda is mostly a, a christian. yeah. catholic country. so yeah. again it's things have got out of control. >> tobias i didn't stir. >> tobias i didn't stir. >> my boys can help calm things down. >> i didn't stir any of that. i thank you for coming on the program and having a frank exchange of views. i'm joined by colin sutton, retired senior investigating officer at the met police, who, of course, famously caught levi bellfield, that awful man. and the night stalker. colin. i mean, it's a rotten night for the police, wasn't it? >> oh, yeah. i mean, you know, l, >> oh, yeah. i mean, you know, i, i'm no politician. i'm just a copper or was and you know, the important things around southport, the important things are the family who's lost a child, the families that have got people in hospital and are on pins as to whether or not they recover and how quickly. i know. and then you've got a group of police officers there, local police officers who were the first responders to this and

had the worst day of their life going into that scene. and then the very next night, they're back out there bravely back out, and people are throwing lumps of masonry at them, you know, and what job would that happen in? but i think the important thing with this is not to play politics with it at all. but i do agree with you that police and the authorities generally need to regain the trust of the population in what they're telling them. yeah and if it's perceived that there is a half truth or not all the truth or not all the story being told. yes. then perceptions are real. and we end up where we were last night. yeah. >> and we're also, colin, living in an internet age . yeah. we in an internet age. yeah. we don't have to wait for the next morning's newspapers to read a variety of opinions. this stuff is instant , i variety of opinions. this stuff is instant, i mean, quite a large percentage of what's onune large percentage of what's online is an absolute load of old baloney, as you and i know, some of this stuff caught fire last night. literally online with millions. i was being

friends of mine saying, why are you not condemning why? you know, i said, whoa, whoa, hang on a second. let's try and find out the truth about . so do the out the truth about. so do the police perhaps need to understand what the tech age really is? >> yeah, i think even from my time, you know, i joined more than 40 years ago and we, the police have never been good at getting ahead of the curve in terms of the narrative , the terms of the narrative, the narrative and in communications. and actually , what's happened is and actually, what's happened is with the explosion of the internet, the explosion of social media, that's taken off exponentially. and so they've fallen even further behind. and i think that's that's the issue. but, you know, it's there were two issues last night, rightly or wrongly, i don't say whether people should think about these or not, but they did. was this man an asylum seeker, an immigrant who'd come across in a boat ? was he a immigrant who'd come across in a boat? was he a muslim? immigrant who'd come across in a boat ? was he a muslim? they were boat? was he a muslim? they were the two questions that were being debated. and the police came out and said he was born in cardiff 17 years ago. great. that deals with number one. why not say he was born in cardiff

and he's a christian or whatever he has? no. yeah religion and you know the issue with that is, is that when nothing of that is said , then people will make said, then people will make assumptions and they fill the vacuum of information. and that's what lindsay said. >> colin, you know, we've had all through our modern history penods all through our modern history periods of violence on streets and mods and rockers clashing and mods and rockers clashing and all sorts of things going on. yeah, but it feels to me, although we are going through a penod although we are going through a period of societal decline in terms of people's behaviour on the streets, it's hard to argue with that, you know, and i lived i was fortunate enough to join the metropolitan police just before the brixton riots in 1981, and i lived through those and subsequent ones and poll tax and subsequent ones and poll tax and things like that. >> and there were tough times then. and, you know, there are always tough times, i guess, i think it's sort of a perfect storm. and it goes back to my, my favourite sort of blame person for this, which is dear old mrs. may, because when we

started cutting the ability of police to police, when we started cutting down local police stations, when they got further removed from their communities and when the numbers went down, it made them difficult to do the ordinary nuts and bolts policing . and nuts and bolts policing. and that has led to a decline in trust and confidence and police services are trying desperately to bring that back now. but without the tools and the fabric and the ecosystem they need, it's a common complaint. >> but i think the big shout out from colin sutton here is that the police forces across this country need to gain control of the narrative, and that's what i get loudly and clearly from you. >> they need to tell the truth and be seen to tell the truth. so that they relied upon to tell the truth. >> and these days, do it quickly. absolutely. colin, thank you very much indeed. in a moment we'll talk about southend machete fights going on outside adventure island. we'll speak to the owner of the venue in just a moment

and after watching all that was going on, the horrendous scenes happening on the streets of southport, suddenly i get told there's a machete fight going on in south end. just the most extraordinary scenes and they were happening in the street outside southend's famous adventure island. well, i'm joined by the owner of the venue, philip miller, m.b.e. philip what an earth happened last night , last night, >> well, certainly an interesting, day. nigel, nice to see you again. by the way. congratulations on winning your seat. but, yeah, the. i suppose what happened the, every now and again when the weather takes to , again when the weather takes to, over 28 degrees, we get these groups from london, descend on us normally just come for a good time. they want to play their music and enjoy themselves. but

in amongst them, you've got. you've got these, a few odd ones that want to cause the trouble. but i would say they came down. certainly didn't look very nice for these boys running up and down with these knives, but they were, you know, quite, more the rarity than the norm amongst them. most of them are just very happy people. just playing, playing around. and that just got this minority that spoils it for everybody else. but the police are on them. the police did a great job. we had helicopters and gun squads. all these people running around for them. and, i suppose at the end of the day, they were doing it to each other and not not to, not to our customers. you know, we didn't have one sort of problem in the adventure island. they were all, good as gold, you know? in fact, we just didn't let them in. >> no. well, that's very sensible. the point i was making, philip, is, you know, you can go back 50 or 60 years. mods and rockers going to the seaside on a bank holiday monday, having a punch up. but, i mean, these people are there with great big machetes. i mean, i mean, have you ever seen anything like it in southend? >> no, no , i'm a born and bred >> no, no, i'm a born and bred here and i've worked on the

seafront all my life now . seafront all my life now. >> this is the first time i've seen that, i must say. but when you actually watch the, the boys chasing each other around , i chasing each other around, i didn't do it with real intent . didn't do it with real intent. it was just sort of waving them at each other rather than anything else. i think they were just. i think what this does, if you trace it back to london, where they have these turf wars and i think they just it's almost like they've had a plan jul or something, you know? but, yeah. touch wood. i mean, thank god there was nobody. nobody was hurt. i think it's, it's a horrible thing. it's frightening. but, you know, for the visitors. but southend is, you know, a safe place. we've got the operation union that, the police put on for us. and, you know, we're probably the safest seaside resort in the country because we've got a permanent police force on the front there. you know, and they can, as they did last night. they just called in help the minute they saw there was a getting out of hand. they just called in the troops and down they arrived. and, that put the lid on things. you know, a very good thing, too. we have these guys there all the time. they're not just there for. sorry. no. >> well, i'm pleased you're well

pleased. you're pleased. you're well pleased there, philip. many other guests on this show say the opposite where they live. philip miller. thank you for joining us. well, i'm joined, joined by lloyd russell—moyle , joined by lloyd russell—moyle, former labour mp, and amaan bogel former labour mp, and amaan bogel, who runs the global britain centre. lloyd you know , britain centre. lloyd you know, southport south end. and as philip said, you know, thank god nobody got killed. but it pretty horrific pictures. are we living in societal decline? >> i think that probably is a bit hyperbolic, to say that we're in societal decline and i'm not sure these two things link very well. i think there are other things that are more interestingly linked. i think the riots that we've had in the last two weeks already, kind of in new labour government, we've already are seeing in leeds and here and also some of how people have reacted because social media has inflamed things , as media has inflamed things, as you saw with the manchester, police man, when he kicked that person down. now he was wrong in

doing so totally wrong. but once later on, the real evidence came out, put it in context. i think what is a sign is that we are in a time where, you know the old adage, the lie travels around the world before the truth got its boots on. i think it's even more so now. and that creates a social media. yes, because of social media. yes, because of social media. yes, because of social media and the way that media is, is kind of feeds off that, because what you see now, it's not just social media on alone. what happens is social media will do something. the traditional media then reports so and so has happened on social media. and it exacerbates we exacerbate. so i think that does create a more toxic kind of atmosphere compared to the individual outrages that we sometimes see machetes on streets. you know, gang gang warfare in brighton. we've seen, you know, kind of modern rock, as you mentioned. we've seen that through the ages and in the mods and rockers use weapons as well. it wasn't just a punch up. they used knives and things like

this. i think that a level of gang warfare has always existed, quite rightly. it needs to be stopped, clamped down and it has flare ups. what i think is more worrying is the way social media and misinformation exacerbates it, and means that it's uncontrollable when it does flare up. >> i wonder, i mean, i wonder i mean, lloyd mentioned leeds where, you know, bus was set on fire, goodness knows what else was going on. the police walked away. >> yes, yes, the police literally walked away. >> now there could be an operational reason that they needed police with a higher level of training or equipment, but i just wonder whether i mean , but i just wonder whether i mean, i think about the marches in london, the so—called pro—palestinian marches in london, chanting slogans for which the rest of us would probably get arrested. i wonder whether the soft approach to policing on the streets is making these kind of protests more numerous. >> well, i think, nigel, that itself is very much a sign of societal decline , that we are societal decline, that we are seeing a this two tier policing,

this vacuum of political, political leadership, outsourcing of responsibility to self—appointed community leaders in so many of these places. and i would say the whole idea that you have, look, social media is to here stay, whether we like it or not. yes, it's here to stay. yes, we should be banning tiktok. i think, in the west, tiktok. >> you think we should ban it? >> you think we should ban it? >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> i think nigel was very popular on it during the election. >> i still am indeed. >> i still am indeed. >> indeed. but tiktok, i mean, let's be honest, some of the algorithms, you ban it because the chinese own it. absolutely. i think the chinese all all, most, most roads of disruption in democracy in the west, or i was in india for their general election. and so much of the disruption is driven by people operating out of out of beijing. and that's what we're facing undermining of our democratic . undermining of our democratic. >> but equally, i mean, okay, i mean, i mean, i hear what you say, and i do understand there are reservations about tiktok . are reservations about tiktok. however, i've just had to bow to

the inevitable, which is that is how the under 25 in this country actually get their news and have their conversations. but, you know , x is an american owned know, x is an american owned platform. facebook, american owned platform. this isn't just china, is it? no, of course. i mean , and those other platforms mean, and those other platforms also can propagate all sorts of stories that aren't true. >> indeed. i mean, elon musk i think, tweeted yesterday that google was, truncating , searches google was, truncating, searches about president trump. so if you type in president trump , it was type in president trump, it was coming up, president donald duck. >> but this has an argument rather than banning a platform because you don't like who owns it, which i can understand. the arguments about china, but it does seem slightly illiberal to me, is there a better argument? not that like we do with broadcast media, there needs to be some proper regulation, there needs to be some oversight and there needs to be some fines when these platforms, rather than just saying, oh, well, it's jews are generated. we've got no say, hard to regulate, i get that. but but look at ofcom. put

that. but but look at ofcom. put that back to the platforms and say you need to come back to us with an argument of how you can regulate this. and if you can't present a unified system that x, tiktok, etc. have to agree, then we will come forward and regulate and that will probably be worse for everyone. so you need to come forward with an idea. and i think the boffins in those companies will want to preserve their companies and they will develop that may be true. >> that may be true. but i'm back on this point. you know, whether it's weak policing, whether it's weak policing, whether it's weak policing, whether it's fake news being spread by whatever platform it may be on social media, i think there's a growing number of people, many, many millions, a double figure, double digits , double figure, double digits, millions feeling something's going wrong in our country. >> and it is if we look for at example, across london, half the kids carrying knives are carrying because they fear being attacked by a knife. and it's a vicious circle. i mean, look at what's happened in london. as soon as sadiq khan became mayor, he stopped. stop, stop and stop and search. right, when boris

became mayor, first time around, he took off 13,000 knives in the first three weeks. and that made a real difference in terms of how ordinary young londoners felt safe not to want to have to carry a knife, and that if that is not a sign of societal decline, then what is? i must say that's a fair point. >> and actually and yvette cooper has had a nightmare start really, hasn't she? >> yeah. >> yeah. >> it's not been an easy it's not been an easy start. but you i think at the moment any government that comes in can almost blame everything on the inheritance that it has. we've seen rachel reeves do that very efficiently. this week , and i efficiently. this week, and i think the home secretary probably do that, but i don't noficein probably do that, but i don't notice in brighton a huge difference in policing, some difference in policing, some difference in policing, some difference in community policing over the last ten years. but i have noticed a real difference in things like youth work, in the ability of social services to intervene in problem families and what we know and i'm background is youth work. what we know very often is it is problem families. it is problem

individuals. and if you don't have the social workers and the youth workers going in to be able to target them, what happens is, i'm afraid to say i don't like to use this term, but a bit like a cancer. it ends up affecting whole areas and communities because people get dragged into that criminality, dragged into that criminality, dragged into that kind of gang culture. and what we need to do is being developing schemes to stop people being dragged in decent youth work. and secondly, he didn't say, and secondly, stopping families that are particularly aggressive and violent in communities being able to get foothold. >> well, i mean, i think we're going to have to get tough, aren't we? >> yeah. so i think it's fair to say, lloyd, that a big, big chunk of this problem boils down to the breakdown of family in our society. that itself is a sign of societal decline. where are the fathers of these thugs out on southend seafront with machetes? well, that's the question that we need to be. where are the mothers as well? >> we don't know where either of them are, but yes, yes, i mean, i'm going to draw stumps on this because in a moment, i'm going

to ask lloyd to defend the fact that rachel reeves went around the country all through the campaign, taxes won't go

we will not put up income tax. we will not put up income tax. we will not put up vat. we will not put up corporation tax on businesses. it was all very clear during the election. but then in the house of commons two days ago, we have found a £20 billion black hole. the conservatives have hidden the truth from you and well, hardly any surprise when rachel reeves said this earlier on today. >> look, i think that we will have to increase taxes in the budget. we will have a budget on the 30th of october. and ahead of that budget, we will have a forecast by the office of budget responsibility on this occasion, based on accurate numbers. >> are you ruling any of those out now as we speak? >> i'm not going to write a

budget or start to write budget. >> well, lloyd, you know, i mean, come on. i mean, we all know that parties do break manifesto promises, and sometimes there's a reason for that. the circumstances genuinely change. this is pretty dishonest stuff, isn't it? >> well , i dishonest stuff, isn't it? >> well, i think the argument is the circumstances are worse than even you don't believe that you're smiling. >> you don't even believe it yourself , do >> you don't even believe it yourself, do you? >> i think also what we need to be clear about is in the manifesto, the pledge was no income tax, no national insurance, no vat. now, anyone that knows anything about politics knows that if a politician is qualifying, what they're saying, it means that everything else is on the table and i'm afraid the british pubuc and i'm afraid the british public aren't so stupid to think that if you promise no raises in those three, you're also promising something else. in fact, the tories raise this in the election campaign if you remember where they tried to get us to the labour party to pledge that they wouldn't increase council tax and the labour party

declined that pledge, said, look, we have no plans to, but we're not going to rule it off the table. so i actually think the table. so i actually think the election campaign was pretty honest about it. what's happening now is the scale that we're going to have to potentially increase taxes or make savings is much larger than than anyone was told. >> and how does that square , how >> and how does that square, how does that square with the growth agenda ? agenda? >> because we kept being told there was a growth agenda. i never saw once in the campaign any evidence, apart from building a few houses of any real plan for growth , seems to real plan for growth, seems to me so much of what she's doing, and it may be necessary, may well be. i don't know . but how well be. i don't know. but how do you do that and get growth? >> well, it depends. each sector needs its own area. there are some areas in the city, for example, where you can change the regulations to deviate, in fact, from some of the eu regulations that don't allow, combining of advice and investment services together, which actually makes investments worse and not better because you can't come , you've actually lost can't come, you've actually lost huge numbers of researchers in investment in the city. >> i'm delighted to hear you

making eurosceptic arguments . i making eurosceptic arguments. i really am, you know, and i'm a pro—european , but there are some pro—european, but there are some advantages there that the government just the previous government, completely failed to do that. >> you could do that will get certain areas of growth. you've got the housebuilding growth and you've got some areas around , you've got some areas around, around trying to make sure that you get better consumer, growth in the economy as well. and i think a number of those things will be done. but i do think it's very worrying if you're not going to invest in some of the building programmes, and that's what we will need. >> i'd love to see a labour government deregulating financial markets. in fact, my last topic tonight is financial markets on this show. i man, i mean, you know, as a conservative supporting type, you can't really condemn them because you put taxes up to the highest level in 70 years. >> well, i never campaigned for any of that, to be honest. i've been campaigning to reduce taxes. but the point here is with this government is that again, this is a sign of political decline , the quality political decline, the quality of leadership that this country has on offer from, well, the two main parties until well, until

recently, the conservative party, the mess that we made of it and now the labour party is quite simple, that they've got £10 billion worth of foreign aid budget for addressing so—called climate change in developing economies , but want to raid economies, but want to raid britain's pensioners to and still raise taxes. >> how are they raiding british pensions? >> let's stick on that. >> let's stick on that. >> let's stick on that. explain. >> let's stick on that. explain. >> well, it's quite simple. they want labour has very clearly announced that they want to take away the winter fuel allowance. yep when rachel reeves back in 2017 was campaigning against doing that and the cap on what you may have to spend on care in your old age indeed is being abolished. >> i mean, for retired people this is a it has have have labour decided you know what the over 65 won't vote for us anyway. to hell with them. >> no, i think they realised that many over 65 that i speak to say i don't need the winter fuel allowance. >> i am well enough off. it is

ridiculous. i use it to buy a new pair of, you know, shoes or houday new pair of, you know, shoes or holiday every year or something. and it seems wrong that people aren't making the cuts. i think other bits of parts of society have made huge cuts in the past. we've seen welfare cuts , haven't we've seen welfare cuts, haven't no cuts to pension because it's been uplifted. we've seen and we know that pensioners now in this country are better off than they ever have been, comparable to working people. >> the 10 million people are saying, actually it hasn't been any cuts there for those that are wealthy and well enough, but you will need to now contribute of the 10 million that will lose this. >> there might be a couple of million who genuinely don't need it. yeah, they're very comfortably off. they've got big final salary , pensions or final salary, pensions or savings or whatever it may be. but this comes at a time when gas prices are markedly higher than they were a couple of years ago. >> it's still to stay high and may and who knows what they and particularly as we're not going to produce our own gas under a labour government, seems to me

to be quite brutal. >> actually it is right now. >> actually it is right now. >> it is brutal because the threshold that a pensioner would lose their winter fuel payment how. >> now. >> so i think it's around £16,000 of savings, £16,000 of savings is not someone who is a rich pensioner. but putting that aside, even the fact that this was a shadow government in waiting, let's be honest , this waiting, let's be honest, this whole shadow cabinet was paid extra money by by parliament and by, you know, as his majesty's official opposition, to know what the books were. and if now they're turning around and saying, well, you know what, even lloyd doesn't believe that nonsense. >> i mean, i mean, final, i'll leave a final thought on this debate between you guys to you, lloyd, i mean, it's been a long 14 year wait for to labour get back into government. >> it feels so different to 97. the optimism, the honeymoon period. now circumstances are different. there are a much deeper set of problems the labour faced back in 97. seems to me they're going to be in the trenches quite soon fighting for

their political reputation. >> well, this is bizarrely the most unpopular landslide in history. >> yeah, but that i think , >> yeah, but that i think, actually could be to their advantage , expectations are so advantage, expectations are so low in the country about what politicians and politics can achieve. and i think if you look at what's in the king's speech and what some of the policy proposals that they are going to bnng proposals that they are going to bring forward, i think they really do start to change the dial on renting, change the dial on how we look at certain bits of education, change the dial on how we look at transport, and if you can get some of the little things that irritate people. bins parking, roads, etc, if you can, you know , councils, if you can, you know, councils, if you can, you know, councils, if you can get some of that sorted . can get some of that sorted. actually, i think a lot of people will say we didn't have high expectations for you. you've managed to sort some of those basics out. we've actually now trusting you even more. well, and so i think there is a pathway here. >> they could buck every you know what? you know what? i'm

still in charge, lloyd. let's be honest, i never believed i mean, blob anywhere. >> a third of the vote, two thirds of the seats. we'll have that debate another time. lloyd. alan, thank you for coming in and joining me this evening in a moment. well, we've got a very prominent labour peer shouting that finance watchdogs have become puppies and lapdogs. dogs of the industry. and how many times have i told you that the banks and the pensions industry don't act in your interests? they act in their own. but it's they're literally anything that can be done about it

well, prominent labour peer an accountant by profession, lord seeker, has hit out viciously at the financial services industry's watchdogs, which is really, really interesting, saying they are puppies and lapdogs of the industry. and i have to say , lord saker, i think

have to say, lord saker, i think you are absolutely right . i you are absolutely right. i found the fca, the financial conduct authority there, of course, to protect you, but frankly doesn't seem to give a damn about you. from what i can see, it's there to suit the industry, and i feel right through banking and especially through banking and especially through the pensions industry. they're literally there to get their annual fees on your money, which over 25, 30 years compound at about a third of the money. you actually put in. i think regulation has completely and utterly failed. who has been protected since rafts of financial services regulation came in in the late 1980s? well, frankly, from what i can see, nobody will. perhaps somebody who will fight a different corner is the former deputy ceo of nationwide, daniel hodson, who joins me from norfolk. daniel, of course, there is some personal animus in this, having

been debunked as publicly and viciously as i was. but but lorsica has a point, doesn't he ? lorsica has a point, doesn't he? >> well, i hate to be in a position of defending regulators, nigel, i'm i'm going to take a slightly different position here. i think. i think lord seeker is correct in some respects, but he's not correct in that, you know, he he this original phrase was about attacking the, the, the suggestion that regulators these days are much more market related than they should be, much more market aware. well, frankly, i'm sure you would agree that that ought to be a change. that should be one of them. they should be more sensitive to market, market affairs . and but i think that affairs. and but i think that the real problem and you referred to it or alluded to it, is that our regulators probably aren't as clever in the markets as they might be, we've now discovered, haven't we, that something like two thirds of the

problem associated with liz truss's famous budget was due to the bank of england's incompetence? they simply didn't understand the market they were in. and now you and i operated in. and now you and i operated in different ways. i was chief executive of life . you were executive of life. you were a commodity trader. i was a regulator. i regulated that market. it was a self—regulatory organisation and we never had any problems. we had people who got parking, fines, that sort of thing. but we never had any major problems. but what we did have have was a department of several people whose job was to educate the regulator, to actually make sure the regulator understood what was going on. i think the bank of england has declined in that respect . when declined in that respect. when i was chief executive of life, i used to go and spend at least an hour a month, probably two hours, with the director of markets talking about the market, talking about what was going on in the markets. and the bank of england was very, very

sensitive to that in a way that i just don't believe is passed on to them now. >> so it's so they've become they've become detached . they've they've become detached. they've become living in their own ivory towers . and it's not serving towers. and it's not serving consumers well. that's the real point, daniel, isn't it? >> well, i think you're right. and of course, you had a you had some experience of that yourself. it is difficult. and one of the problems is that it's a tendency for it to be over prescriptive. and the balance between what you might call competitive , and proportionate, competitive, and proportionate, regulation and getting over prescriptive asking people , i prescriptive asking people, i mean, for instance, you know, there's going to be some risk , there's going to be some risk, but you don't say, you can't guard the doors in case you get run over. you can't prescribe against every risk. and there is against every risk. and there is a tremendous tendency for them to do that. and of course, that is yeah, that is part of what you were a victim of, in terms of the de—banking of problems that you had. nigel. >> no, daniel, we will come back

to these subjects, as we regularly do with you. >> thank you forjoining me down the line from sunny norfolk. i'm joined by jacob rees—mogg in the studio. jacob, what are you having a look at tonight? >> well, we're going to be talking about this extraordinary breakdown of law and order, and it's a very odd world we're in because recorded crime is going down. >> but the streets seem to be aflame. and what's going on? why isn't the routine job of the state of keeping the streets orderly taking place? what's led to it? why is this happening when actually recorded crime, burglaries and so on are declining ? declining? >> yes, i think it's societal decline. it's one of the things i talked about during the election campaign. >> indeed. i think that's right. there's communities are weaker. people are behaving in unexpected ways . unexpected ways. >> communities are breaking down. it's awful. jacob, have a great show. i'll be back with you tomorrow, everybody. first, the weather with annie shuttleworth. >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers sponsors of

up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news >> hello. good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather update brought to you from the met office. increasingly humid overnight with a threat of thunderstorms, but it will remain largely dry across northern areas. plenty of sunshine to come this evening and through tomorrow. here. high pressure still dominating, but it is drifting away to the east and low pressure will arrive from the south as well as from the west throughout the rest of this week. now across the south—east this evening there's a risk of some heavy downpours, but overnight that that risk becomes more widespread, pushing into parts of wales northern and central areas of england, as well as sticking around in the south—east as well. and it's going to be a humid night for many areas, drier and slightly fresher across eastern areas of scotland . however, now into scotland. however, now into tomorrow morning there's a chance of some very heavy downpours. there's a warning in force for much of thursday for a large proportion of england and wales that could affect anywhere east of wales, really across much of england. and that risk bnngs much of england. and that risk brings a potential for some

travel disruption, heavy downpours, frequent lightning and potentially some quite large hail as well. so do keep up to date with the forecast throughout the day on thursday, across parts of scotland, though, particularly eastern scotland, it should be a dry start, but sunshine will be fairly limited. it should be a bright start across western areas of england and wales, though, and plenty of sunshine to come across western areas. but once the sun does break out across central and eastern areas of england, there's a further risk of some heavy downpours . risk of some heavy downpours. further travel disruption is expected through thursday, not everywhere will see these thunderstorms, but where you do see them, they could bring some fairly major impacts. it's going to be another humid day. temperatures in the mid to high 20s once again on friday. it looks fairly dry to start the day. there's a risk of some further downpours across eastern areas into the afternoon, but looking further west, there is a change on the way. a weather front wrapped around an area of low pressure will bring fresher , low pressure will bring fresher, wetter and windier weather as we head into the weekend. so showery weather, particularly across north western areas, a

little bit drier and brighter across the south and east. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news

>> hello. good evening. it's me, jacob rees—mogg on state of the nafion jacob rees—mogg on state of the nation tonight with the breakdown of law and order across the united kingdom, we will be revealing a metropolitan police recruitment campaign that shows why police forces are losing their way and why we need a return to proper policing. huw edwards, once the star of the bbc, has pleaded guilty to making indecent images of children. we'll be discussing why the liberal media elite were so keen to exonerate him and attack the sun newspaper for reporting on his misbehaviour. could labour be about to cause energy bills to rise again amidst a drive towards green energy? plus the hidden annual cost of employee illness has

reached £30 billion since 2018, while britain is facing a productivity crisis. i'll be joined by a man with a plan for britain's economy. state of the nafion britain's economy. state of the nation starts now. i'll also be joined by my fearsomely feisty panel historian, broadcaster tessa dunlop and the associate common editor at the telegraph, moutaz ahmed. as ever, i want to hear from you. let me know your views. mailmogg@gbnews.com. but now it's your favourite part of the evening. the news bulletin with polly middlehurst. >> well, let's bring you the very latest news from the gb newsroom. and we can tell you that tonight in london, protesters have thrown flares at downing street. beer cans have been thrown glass bottles as well, all at the gates of downing street during a protest in the wake of the southport

knife attack and riot. let's take you live to the scenes in white hart, where we've seen police in riot gear blocking the streets. crowds have been heard chanting save our kids , stop the chanting save our kids, stop the boats in central london and we've also seen protesters attempt to kick down fences. the metropolitan police have placed strict conditions on this protest. it's called the enough is enough protest, instructing the demonstration must end in just under half an hour's time . just under half an hour's time. superintendent neil holyoake, leading the police operation tonight for the metropolitan police , going online earlier on police, going online earlier on today urging everyone to exercise their right to protest calmly and within the law, adding that any disorder will be deau adding that any disorder will be dealt with swiftly. but in footage from the scene, we have, as i said, heard protesters chanting save our kids! even at one point, rule britannia and flares and objects have been thrown towards the gates of

downing street. these live pictures coming to us