conversations . so much i want to conversations. so much i want to get into with you tonight before 7:00. what is going on with these riots? let's look again at these riots? let's look again at the government's response. we've got really swift criminal justice now taking place. is it all the right moves? we're having people essentially released from prison to free up space for these guys. we're talking about terrorism charges also, as well. i want to look at nigel farage. he's been getting so much blame from so many people. is that accurate? is that fair ? also yougov poll out. that fair? also yougov poll out. let's look at how much people agree and disagree with what is actually going on in our society. but first, let's get the 6:00 news.

>> good evening from the gb newsroom. it'sjust >> good evening from the gb newsroom. it's just gone 6:00. your headlines. police are aware of at least 100 protests and 30 counter—demonstrations planned for this evening. a list of immigration law firms has been shared. an online chat groups as possible targets for gatherings, which the director of public prosecutions has warned could be considered a terrorism offence. it comes as one case of alleged terrorism is already actively under consideration. police are urging people to ignore the list of locations, telling rioters officers will be waiting. it comes as at least 12 individuals have been convicted for their part in the ongoing disorder. speaking a short while ago, deputy prime minister angela rayner said there's no excuse for thuggery. >> i know that the public will be feeling anxious about the reports of potential more, unrest tonight, but the police

will be there to respond to any violent and criminality that we see on our streets. there's no place for that on our uk streets. and the police will do their job streets. and the police will do theirjob like streets. and the police will do their job like they streets. and the police will do theirjob like they have done their job like they have done exceptionally well under very difficult circumstances, like i've seen here and witnessed today what they faced. missiles being thrown at them and attacked. but the police will be there to keep the public safe and there's no excuse for thuggery and criminality on the streets. >> however , speaking last night, >> however, speaking last night, the former home secretary priti patel called for the labour government to be more accountable. >> this is why we have to have the questions, the scrutiny to the questions, the scrutiny to the home secretary and to keir starmer because actually the police need to have the tools, the equipment, the backing to police in the right way across all protests. it doesn't matter who, but literally all the protests where we're seeing thuggery , violence, criminality, thuggery, violence, criminality, everyone. that's involved in that, these protests should be pleased. i've seen footage on

television. i'm sure you have as well. i saw some on social media last night from one part of the country where i saw no police . i country where i saw no police. i want to know. i want to know why that was why. why was there no police presence? >> it comes as the metropolitan police commissioner has dismissed accusations of two tier policing, calling it complete nonsense. the criticism came from figures including nigel farage and elon musk, who argued that last week's disorder was handled more severely than it would have been if ethnic minorities were involved. sir mark rowley has been addressing the claims. >> it's complete nonsense. we have, commentators from either end of the political spectrum who like to throw accusations of bias at the police because we stand in the middle , we operate stand in the middle, we operate independently under the law without fear or favour . without fear or favour. >> in other news, shamima begum's lawyers could take her case to the european court of human rights after she lost her

final bid to challenge the removal of her british citizenship. she'd originally had her passport removed after joining so—called islamic state as a teenager in 2015. a judge has ruled she can't bring the case to court again, suggesting it could be argued the 24 year old had been the author of her own misfortune. following the ruling, miss begum's lawyers said they will take every possible legal step on her behalf, including a petition to strasbourg in the us. kamala harris says tim waltz is the vice president. america deserves , vice president. america deserves, after officially unveiling him as her running mate at a campaign rally, the democratic presidential nominee says she chose the minnesota governor because he's a fighter for the middle class, and called him a patriot. the former teacher is considered a more progressive choice, with voters . children in choice, with voters. children in england will need to be seen by a gp and a mental health specialist, or a paediatrician, before being referred for gender care. the nhs says the system

has to be transformed after a major review found young people were being let down by a lack of research on medical interventions, freedom of information requests reveal the youngest child on the national waiting list is under five years old, and team gb have surpassed their 1,000th olympic medal today in the history of the games. great britain's ethan hayter, dan bingham, charlie tanfield, ethan vernon and ollie would have won a silver medal in the men's team pursuit at the paris games. those are the latest gb news headlines. for now, i'm sophia wenzler more in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . gbnews.com forward slash alerts. >> thank you very much for that.

i am michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company until 7:00 tonight alongside me, i've got my panel. the co—founder of novara media, aron bastani and the conservative commentator alex dean. good evening gentlemen. good evening to you. of you. you're very welcome tonight. and you know the drill. data on this programme. well, maybe you don't if you're new, quite frankly. so i'll just i'll just indulge myself and explain, you know , we are a debate you know, we are a debate programme. i will not shy away from difficult conversations that i know that many of you are having in your own homes, in the pubs and out there more broadly in society. it's not just about us three in this studio. i really do like to make you guys and your opinions and your views very central to the conversations that we are having tonight. and i also want to reassure you, i get so many emails whilst i'm on air, but i always make the effort to read all of your comments to me throughout the course of the evening. so whatever you're saying, i assure you it doesn't go on deaf ears. you can get in touch with me all the usual ways so you can email me gb views @gbnews. com you can go to gb

views gbnews.com/yoursay which is the website , and you can talk is the website, and you can talk to me and each other there. or of course you can tweet or text me, but wherever you're watching or listening, you're very, very welcome tonight. now, sadly, unfortunately, i would love to be here sitting with you tonight saying, you know, wonderful peace restored to the nation. everyone moves forward with unity and harmony. unfortunately, that's not the story of the evening because we've got 6000 police officers on standby again tonight. there's so many rumours. about protests, riots, all kind of events taking place up and down the country . multiple reports of the country. multiple reports of different counter—protests and so on and so forth. so tonight, it's feared. i mean, i hope it's wrong. i would love to be sitting here tomorrow saying, you know, the whole evening passed without any incident. and let's talk about other things, but i'm not sure that that will be the case. what's your reaction to some of the goings

on so far? >> well, i share your hope that nothing untoward occurs. of course, i think all decent minded people of whatever political persuasion do, but it's very difficult to deny . it's very difficult to deny. we've come to a point where people no longer feel for whatever reason, that they're being listened to in british society, and the first thing to say is that there's no excuse or reason to resort to violence at all. and so that's not a but or wait for the next part. that's an absolute, in my view. once you've said that, you can also think that we've got a problem in this country with, politics, and we've got a problem in this country with immigration, you can think those things at the same time. you can think violence is completely wrong and you can think we've also got a problem with the number one concern that people say when polled, they're concerned about. you can think that at the same time. and indeed, i do. aaron >> well, there's just so much to say , isn't there? look, you've say, isn't there? look, you've got till 7:00. many people involved in these riots, this

disorder , many of them will be disorder, many of them will be very ideological. many of them just won't be particularly nice people. many of them deserve the book thrown at them. there'll also be others who just happen to be there interested. i mean, we've seen the live streams where people say, i don't agree with this or this is awful. so merely being present at something doesn't mean you necessarily agree with it. and with any widespread disorder like this, just like in 2011, they are not ideologically homogeneous. they don't all agree on everything, even though the media likes to often not. not that you would ever do that, michel, but the media generally has a habit of saying, all these people agree on this. they all think that they're all of the same mind. that's simply not the case for people watching or listening to this who are considering going out onto these protests, i would just say to you, don't, don't . because you, don't, don't. because already we're getting stories of people going into magistrates courts, getting two, three, four years for violent disorder and other similar charges. these people have, in some cases thrown their futures away for

absolutely nothing. if you have absolutely nothing. if you have a particular set of views on immigration or asylum, we have a democratic political system for that. nigel farage is now an mp, for goodness sake. that is the way to proceed and come off. >> it . >> it. >> it. >> no, i think that's a fair point. >> yeah. and that would be a really, really fair point if what you were saying was actually honoured. so if we had actually honoured. so if we had a democratic system where people do have a viewpoint, which is actually i'm concerned about uncontrolled immigration, i'm concerned about things like stopping the boats. if we had a democratic system that actually registered those opinions, acted on those desires , and actually on those desires, and actually did what they promised to do, so therefore , if you are someone of therefore, if you are someone of therefore, if you are someone of the ilk that wants to control immigration, people would argue, well, we've been voting for that democratically since the likes of 2010, and each and every twist and turn. not only is that viewpoint not being respected democratically, it's been ripped off, thrown in people's faces, essentially laughed at and smeared and the exact opposite has happened. >> well, i wouldn't go, laughed at and smeared what i'd say is

alex maybe won't like this, but that's that is squarely on the conservative party. and that's why they were punished by so many of their natural voters in the last general election. that's why reform got the vote share that they did, because as you've said for 15 years, the conservatives said we're going to reduce immigration, reduce immigration, reduce immigration. they were very they were very happy for migration to be a very salient issue. and what we saw under priti patel as home secretary, one can have no problems with it or one can be very upset by it. is1.3 million very upset by it. is 1.3 million net immigration very upset by it. is1.3 million net immigration over two years. and as you've said, if you're voting consistently for less immigration and then that happens. i can understand why you'd be rather flummoxed by the democratic system, as you've said. but that then to led a catastrophic result for the conservative party last month. and like i say, the best way to channel these concerns, if you have them, is always through the democratic system. >> i agree with some of that. i half agree with it. i certainly the catastrophic election result part is true, notwithstanding some excellent candidates and specific seats , i would say specific seats, i would say that, blair's architecture of

mass immigration is what began that and the conservative party did little to nothing to unpick it. so i concede if you're willing to go that extra bit and say it was begun under labour, i will concede that the conservative party did not. despite repeated promises in manifestos to reduce migration to the tens of thousands, never achieved that, or indeed came anywhere near it. >> so you can see at that point, well, no, statistically we know that actually immigration has been was very until 2015. >> 2016 was very, very you know, we know what the graph looks like and then it goes up. now again that doesn't mean i have a problem with it. but those are the facts. and what we saw after 2020 was record immigration. i think that's not again to explain or justify. so it explain orjustify. so it doesn't start with blair. no, no. something very significant happens after 2020 michel. something very significant. >> yeah i know but numbers wise you had you had the likes of the eu being expanded to the eastern bloc and the decision being taken in this country not to apply any transitional controls whatsoever. and we were the only place to do that . no, we weren't place to do that. no, we weren't the only place. i think there were about four places. there

were about four places. there were like such a handful of we were like such a handful of we were certainly the only major economies, and it was a big mistake. so many people would say, right back until that moment in time, that's what was happening. people would also say about the labour party if it wasn't for the foreign policy interventions of the likes of blair, you wouldn't have so many people wanting to flee their countries . so i think there is countries. so i think there is blame on both sides. >> i've got to tell you, i think that whilst migration is plainly in play in the current political discussion, i think the thing thatis discussion, i think the thing that is exciting people the most is the perceived difference in the way that the police are behaving towards protests of different natures and our prime minister has got to be very careful about this because as, as donald trump shows, assigning nicknames that stick in the pubuc nicknames that stick in the public mind really work and really can harm people in modern politics. two tier keir is sticking whether we're going to say whether he likes it or not. plainly, he doesn't like it, right? whether the labour party thinks it's fair or not. that accusation of two tier keir is working against the prime minister. it's not a conservative party attack line

particularly. we're still busy trying to find our collective minds. after a remarkable shellacking at the hands of the electorate. it's everyone from elon musk to the guy down the pub with things like two tier. keir and the prime minister had a very bad start to his time in office, i think. so when keir starmer talks about cracking down on violence, he's absolutely right to do so. and as the dpp during the last set of real civil unrest, he knows what he's talking about. and i don't mean that in an undermining way. he's he's well positioned to do it, but he needs to terminate this two tier label with extreme prejudice because it is sticking. >> should we just listen then you mentioned, keir starmer, should we just have a listen to some of the conversations that he's been having? this is him off the back of a cobra meeting last night. >> i made it very clear on a number of occasions that those involved will feel the full force of the law , so we force of the law, so we coordinated. we went through some of the numbers. over 400 people now have been arrested, 100 have been charged, some in

relation to online activity and a number of them are already in court. and i'm now expecting substantive sentencing before the end of this week. >> well, after the break, i will get into the way that some of these people are being policed, these people are being policed, the criminal justice system, whether or not it's the right process. but before i get into that bit, let me just pick up on this, allegation of two tier keir. i mean, i learned something new today , aaron. it something new today, aaron. it seems like on an hourly basis, the list of what is considered far right in this country expands at a rate of knots. and i learned today i actually saw an interview on this to channel be honest about the accusation. now that even suggesting that there is such a thing as two tier policing or two tier politicking, or two tier media, even that mere suggestion is now apparently far right, which i of course find absolutely absurd. what do you. is that a far right trope? is it okay? apparently. apparently, according to many

people today, yes it is, which is just ridiculous. >> well, i think one can disagree with the assertion or say, well, i'm not quite sure. please show me the evidence and not necessarily agree that it's i don't think it's a far right idea. what i would say is as well, look, it's true. well, farage has said that it's since 2020. what i would say is my experience. i'm much more experienced with regards to the policing of public protest going back into the 2010s. if you look at some of the biggest mass arrests in english history, tower hamlets against the edl, 286 arrests, i think 148 of the olympic opening ceremony. those people on the left, ian tomlinson, of course, killed, just as a bystander in the g20 protests in 2009. so that, to me doesn't suggest two tiers. >> but that's the trouble the guardian used to say two tier policing, but they meant it the other way round. they meant that there was it was against left wing protesters. they meant that it was against ethnic minorities, against on the basis of sexuality. the left used to talk about two tier policing without it being a far right nofion without it being a far right notion or without it being a nofion notion or without it being a notion that in and of itself was considered unacceptable.

>> one of the things that did make me chuckle, i will confess, i don't know if anyone saw it today, but on twitter or whatever you call it these days at the guardian, i noticed that there was an article about two tier policing and why is england apparently having all these allegations and the community notes, if you know what they are? it's basically people like adding context or correcting things or whatever. there was just lists of all the times that the guardian had themselves, to your point, literally been commenting on two tier policing. so when you say the likes of nigel farage, we'll talk about 2020. what i think you're referring to is the likes of black lives matter and that kind of thing. that's his assertion, isn't he? yeah, that's where many people are actually saying that. it was kind of around those times where we saw this whole two tier thing. is there any truth in that, do you think? >> well, again, let's just look at the facts. you know, that was dunng at the facts. you know, that was during and in the immediate aftermath of covid. if there is such a thing. and of course, policing of public order situations was different as a result. in 2021, we had protests, riots in bristol. somebody got 14 years and those would have been coded as quote

unquote left wing protests. so again, you know, i ask where and when. and invariably people say, well, it's two tiers between left and right. if i push back on that and say, well, it's actually two tiers between muslim and non—muslim, it's only since 2020. so that's why i want real clarity here. who are we talking about and in what time frame? >> how about this really quickly now west midlands police spokesman on television yesterday with your esteemed rivals at sky, said that he'd spoken to people in the muslim community and they had they told him they were going to police themselves. and he said that approvingly. now there is no policing yourself in a british community. that's what the police is for. that's two tier policing. well, nice. >> and conveniently we have that clip for you and i shall play it for you after the break. and you can decide, because i want to bnng can decide, because i want to bring you into this conversation. what do you think to this whole two tier notion? it's expanding now because it's not just the police that have been accused, as we're saying. it's politicians. also the media. be playing that clip that alex references in

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm with you till 7:00 tonight. our and bastani and alex dean remain alongside me. well, look, we're just looking at this two tier allegation and suggestion . many of you will be suggestion. many of you will be familiar, of course, with some of the goings on in birmingham. although actually, if you watch a lot of the media, you probably would have just thought that there was just a bit of a casual walkabout, nothing really to be seen. now absolutely far from the case. we had lots of quite intimidating mobs of muslim men, some of them armed with weapons, doing all kinds of intimidating things from effing and blinding at reporters on live television, pulling gun triggers. it looked like to me, to cameras, obviously, of course, with their faces concealed, going up to cars, if it was identified that there was a white person in there was a white person in there smashing up those cars and so on and so forth , where were so on and so forth, where were the police? million dollar question. well anyway, that's

question. well anyway, that's question about two tier policing was put to one of those police bosses in the west midlands. let's listen to how he answered the question. >> we knew that there was going to be a large amount of people out on that counter—protest. we knew who the vast majority of those people were. we'd had conversations in terms of, what that was likely to look like. and so our policing response was commensurate to that intelligence and the information that we'd held with our partners and communities prior to that event taking place , event taking place, >> that was it was you that actually raised, that, response. >> i thought, i think there was another part where he, he said that they'd agreed they were going to police themselves, but either way, that's just not a good enough answer. i'm a member of the church of england. if the archbishop of canterbury said, we're going to police ourselves, he ought to be told by the home secretary and the prime minister no, you won't. that's the job of the police to undertake policing. this isn't about white or black, muslim or christian. it's about the notion that there

is nobody above the law, no community that can say to the authorities, we'll do this ourselves. and that's this is why this notion of two tier is, is starting to take place because you have police officers parroting that kind of language. oil, the community, this, this, this community told me it would be all right. so i didn't need to police them. i mean, that's just ridiculous. and once you start taking a position like that, not only do you undermine the authority that you have when that protest or whatever the event, concerned goes awry, then what authority have you got to go and police it when it happens? now i am delighted that one of the most terrible examples in that situation, there was a guy who was on the street with a full blown sword, because he'd heard there was going to be a far right protest, which isn't actually happen. and he got his collar. felton is going to face charges quite right to what my point is, what the prime minister has now got to do is demonstrate that that he and the police force acting in the united kingdom, on behalf of his majesty, to enforce law and order, do so without fear or favour , and that they are no

favour, and that they are no more truck with people flying the palestinian flag. god knows what that's got to do with law and order on the street in the uk at the moment. and wielding weapons than they have with far right thugs. that's when you'll dispel the notion of two tier policing. to put it plainly, people will stop saying that we've got two tier policing in this country. when you demonstrate that we haven't got two tier policing, aaron bastani so i think there's a danger here that people are going to draw an equivalence between what was happening in the west midlands and what has happened elsewhere, >> there were some things that i saw which were obviously very bad, for instance, slashing the tires of journalists, intimidating behaviour towards them. that's just, that's, that's utterly unacceptable, but i just to be clear, i wouldn't say that's in any way equivalent to arson with intent to cause harm to human life, which is what happened in rotherham, for instance. and i think we need we need to be clear about the kinds of offences which are unfolding. >> hold on. because this is an offence in hull. my hometown. disgraceful, racist , horrendous disgraceful, racist, horrendous criminal activity. there's a car. yeah. these guys,

presumably my fellow asians, they think that there is, quote foreign men in there and they're battering that car trying to get the guys out there. it is horrendous. it's racist. unacceptable criminal activity. the same event. and i shall try and play you that clip as well. literally the same event in birmingham. you've now got this mob of muslim men looking at the cat like, here we go. i'm literally playing it now, apparently, because there is a quote, edl member, their words , quote, edl member, their words, not mine. inside of that car they are doing everything that they are doing everything that they can to smash up that car, get hold of him because of the colour of his skin. >> i don't well, they're saying it's because he's an edl member, which is due to the content of his politics. but what i would say is, and of course, that's not acceptable. and we need cool heads to tell, particularly young men, that this is not the right way to carry on. but even in the instance you just showed from hull, that's violent disorder. and look, this is this is reflected in the criminal justice system. violence orders a maximum sentence of five years arson with intent to cause harm

to human life is a maximum of a life sentence. so there are a range of things happening. and i just think it's a bit unwise to draw equivalencies between all of them and saying they're all universally the same on the point of the police. look, i can't remember the last time, by the way. >> just be clear. i didn't say no. i know you're not universally. no, i know you're not what i said is there is now criminality. there's criminality all over the place. >> the police have completely lost control. they have completely lost control. and what i would say is in regards to, for instance, the two tier policing, i'm left wing as i as you were very kind even to, to to, look after me when i came on the show about a year ago after i'd been assaulted on the street because of my politics now, which is disgraceful. yeah. and the person and the person who did that, nothing happened to them. why? because in the words of the police, they're having a hard time right now. and so i think we have a problem with regards to policing in this country generally. and i think people are looking at that through the prism of two tiers. well, actually, no, we just have massive dysfunction with regards to policing. and look, it's not a story we're talking about

necessarily. tonight there was comments made by a senior trade unionist within the prison establishment. they said we cannot afford to have an injection of new prisoners like we did after 2011, because the prison system in this country simply won't be able to manage it. that's an extraordinary admission, by the way. we're a g7 economy, nuclear weapons, un security council , and we're security council, and we're seriously being told that actually we can't pacify public order. we can't adequately punish people because we don't have the infrastructure to deal with the people breaking the law. it's a serious, extraordinary. >> it's a serious admission of failure on the part of the state. and it's, of course, whilst the labour party has been in government for a month, it's as much to do with the last government as it is to do with this one. we need to build more prisons and we need to build more wings on the prisons that we've got. it's amazing to me, people like to point out rightly, that whilst we get exercised about crime in this country, crime is being going down. at the same time, the prison population has been going up. no one seems to like to point out there might be a correlation there between those two facts, because the vastly disproportionate number of

crimes in this country are committed by a small number of ne'er do wells, and if you catch them and imprison them, perhaps them and imprison them, perhaps the rest of us are going to be better off safety of the public being one of the reasons you send someone to prison in the first place. but i want to go beyond that because you were talking about, not getting embedded in using examples and saying it wasn't helpful. well, i'm not sure that that's right. i'm not sure that that's right. i was a candidate in finchley and golders green at the last election. there is a protest planned tonight, in the patch in which i was a candidate . where? which i was a candidate. where? which states that its aim is to get fascists , racists, nazis, get fascists, racists, nazis, zionists and islamophobes out of finchley. there's an interesting word there that is not like the others . zionists in the most others. zionists in the most jewish seat in the country is not something i think is reasonable at all for people who would otherwise claim, i think, to have good intentions. the so—called finchley against fascism campaign to have. and my point is that when you go around saying we're going to get zionists out of finchley in the largest jewish population in the country, i say that if you'd said that, if you can construct what the other way around might be, if you'd found a word that

might be read as black people or muslims, the police would take great interest. now, i hope that the police are taking great interest tonight about what's happening in in finchley and golders green. and to their vast credit, they have protected the jewish population in this country, at their synagogues , at country, at their synagogues, at time of prayer, it's disgraceful. they needed to do that. but they do it and they do it well. and with good grace. i wish them well tonight in policing. what's happening, i don't i really hope there isn't a two tier policing of the kind we've been discussing when, we've been discussing when, we've just asking them about people's views on two tier policing. >> aaron, one of the things that came through, not the only thing, certainly, but one of the examples that people came up with was the various, saying about the approach to policing the pro—palestine marches every weekend. and there is a sense among many people that there is among many people that there is a softer, approach to policing those people than there are other protests. people will give examples of, you know, what was it again? from the river to the

sea being beamed onto the elizabeth tower. big ben essentially, and police just kind of standing by and then people kind of saying, oh, well, towards this sentiment means this. whereas to another segment of society it is calling on, some people would interpret it as being some kind of call for genocide, and yet people would argue the police just stood there. you've had people chanting, calling for jihad, associated with some of those protests. very little seems to happen. you've had people, waving and showing solidarity and support for terrorist organisations such as hamas in those protests. and again, people perceived that there's a lack of policing there. >> well, people have been arrested for endorsing or supporting proscribed terrorist organisations because that is a clear red line where you can you can get somebody. >> well, we had the girls, didn't we, with the, was it the parachute? remember? they were . parachute? remember? they were. yeah. the. yeah they were so yeah. you're absolutely right . yeah. you're absolutely right. >> there has been which by the way i wouldn't include it in that. i thought they have a, you

have a, i thought it was a distasteful thing they did at the time. i've been criticised by many people from all sides. but i certainly don't think that merits prosecution because i think you have a right to freedom of speech with regards to that. hamas, however, is a proscribed terrorist organisation. i think you can say should they or should they not be there? but we have that line. they were glorifying hamas, they were glorifying hamas. they would say they did. they would they would say they weren't. they would say they weren't. they would say they weren't. well, that's why are they always okay? >> well, i suppose look, but other people have explicitly said, you know, i endorse hamas, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. >> and those people have been in in trouble. but i think we do need to defend a the right to free speech. we do need to ensure the right to protest. and by the way, michelle, i say that to people i disagree with that includes people like tommy robinson. and i think those protests, they were they were for the most part, very legal, very peaceful, very calm. and i think it's again, i think i'm not saying you're doing this, but i think there's something strange going on. if one is comparing what happened in those protests to what has been happening in places like rotherham, middlesbrough, sunderland in recent days, we've been seeing widespread public disorder. we've been seeing the targeting of racial minorities in particular. we've seen the torching of a library opposite a

primary school. we've seen somebody's pet stolen. this gentleman was had a shop. it was ransacked. his pets, his canaries were stolen. you know, i think i think drawing an equivalence between that and a protest that one might not like, i think, again, that's that's not necessarily all that helpful. >> i had not heard the two about the canary loss and up with that i will not put. but if that's not that's i don't think the relevant comparison in leeds. only a few weeks ago when there was great upset about children being taken into care harehills, the police ran away from people taking to the streets. now you can make excuses for them and say they weren't adequately prepared for the size of community activity that took place as a result. but that's when people get concerned about two tier policing. the police are so hands off they're legging it when it happens in leeds, but when it's a different group, having their protest afterwards, the police are have a very different approach. i my, my point is i want the police to be reassuring to the law abiding and terrifying to the law breaking . whoever the law breaking. whoever the law breaking. whoever the law breaking are. right? so i want

more robust behaviour from the police in all circumstances. i'm not saying the police should back off these idiot thugs setting fire to things. i'm saying the police should be absolutely robust with them. i just think they should be equally robust with everybody. >> one of the challenges that the police face because and i want to make this clear, i do feel like i need to repeatedly state my position. there is never a justification for setting to fire things, abusing police officers. i mean, i can't believe i need to say this, but setting fire to hotels with people in them, i mean, there is neven people in them, i mean, there is never, ever any justification nor excuse for any of that behaviour. it is completely wrong. it is criminal and it is quite frankly disgraceful. one of my viewers has said, by the way, michelle, so many people keep taking to the streets and saying we want our country back, whilst then simultaneously setting fire to their own country. she's pointing out it's absolutely ludicrous and i agree with you. but anyway , one of the with you. but anyway, one of the challenges that you've got is the, riot that you had that alex had just been talking about in harehills, that was all about these children that have been

apparently put into care with some extended family members or whatever. and then the police and the social services had got wind that the family was trying to take the children out of the country. so then they removed those children into safe care. so this was then all kicking off about that. the challenge that you then had is when you had so much horrendous criminality in all the things that we've just been describing, the outcome was the police were then sorry. the children were then returned to the family. so many people and i'm not justifying this and i'm not suggesting that this is right. i'm just trying to explain mindsets. many people then thought, well , actually then thought, well, actually it's all well and good. people saying, well, riots don't work . saying, well, riots don't work. evidently they do. when we saw the people , the two brothers, it the people, the two brothers, it was accused of battering the police officers in manchester airport. you saw the community then go to the police station, literally what i would say dictating law and order and what the process should be, and warning that if these people

essentially were not released from custody, we would see, i quote, it was something along the lines of riots like this country has never, ever seen before. well, what happened next? you guessed it, those people were then released on bail, so it's all well and good. everyone rightly condemning collectively violent activity. but then we've seen in different instances i've just mentioned to there where violent activity has got an outcome and that is problematic. yeah. >> so in the case of manchester, look those , those two, men will look those, those two, men will be they'll be processed through the system . that's going to the system. that's going to happeni the system. that's going to happen i think regardless of what one thinks about that case, the police officer in that instance did not use reasonable force. the reason why we equip officers with tasers is to incapacitate people in order to not break bones. not so they can subsequently break bones and kick people's heads in. agreed. >> but members of the public have seen videos of the brother, the brothers , you know, i the brothers, you know, i obviously i need to assume innocence until proven guilty, but everyone has seen the video.

that kind of goes before that. yeah. and we've got a legal system which will obviously look at all of the information and try to arrive at a fair outcome. >> in the case of harehills, i think, look, this actually gets to a really important point about public order policing, which is that the system historically has been to take a step back and arrest people after the events . that's what's after the events. that's what's been the case for decades. in the age of social media, that's clearly upsetting lots of people because it looks like in action. >> yeah, well, there you go. of course, that is the video that i was just referring to. you had that bizarre spectacle, by the way. i don't know if you saw that. i might. come on, i might ask alex about this. you're a qualified barrister, i might come on to that after the break. did you see that? what i would call a very peculiar press conference there with the lawyer that took place yesterday on that took place yesterday on that case? look, there's lots more i want to talk to you about after the break, blimp flying around all over the place. nigel farage, for example. he's coming front and centre as to who people are for all of what do you think to some of that? the

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company until 7:00 tonight. thank you for joining us. alongside me, forjoining us. alongside me, i've got the co—founder of novara media, aaron bastani, and the conservative commentator alex dean. now just before we went to the break there, we was just touching upon that issue in manchester airport. i will just play manchester airport. i will just play you a brief clip in case you missed that press conference yesterday. listen, matt and his mother, shamim were shocked at the unnecessary aggression and violence alleged violence shown from the start. >> there was no immediate attempt to speak to father, to ask him to step aside, to caution him, or to simply say, can we speak to you for second, >> obviously i've got to remind everyone that these fellows are out on bail at the moment. >> yeah, you're a barrister, though his clients are entitled to the presumption of innocence like anyone else appearing before the courts. i was never instructed by a solicitor who gave press conferences like that. nor would i like to. the

first reason is that it makes the defence of that person in court, i would say, rather more difficult at. the first reason for that is the jury will be asked, are you able to make a decision about this , these set decision about this, these set of defendants, fairly and without concern about prior facts or about the case, are you able to approach it reasonably one way or another? somebody in in the jury pool may have watched that footage and thought either fantastic, i agree with you or appalling. i think what you're saying is rubbish. either way, it doesn't help the fair minded jury pool to be assembled. the second reason is that those are arguments that are best made in court. those are best made in court. those are arguments best made in the course of your defence. they're not arguments, in my view, to be made in a press conference. but be all that as it may. what happenedin be all that as it may. what happened in manchester, it seems to me, was a series of unfortunate events. to put it, most mildly. but the most. one of the unfortunate things i thought was that people were shown selectively. the clip of the what the officer did. now i am not making excuses for that officer at all, who will, of

course face his own comeuppance for his his actions. but what i mean is that the context of what had happened in the entirety of footage that was readily available, and people chose not to share that , that wider to share that, that wider footage that is an a decision, a deliberate act that was made to paint those officers in the worst possible light. now as i say, i'm not making excuses for them and they will face their own decision making processes. but i do think that the best possible situation is that none of the footage is shown . you of the footage is shown. you don't get clips about like this shown on social media for clickbait likes and rage generation. but the second best thing is that people can see the whole thing. and we offer all too often in social media at the moment, getting the worst of all worlds, which is people deliberately and carefully selecting the smallest part that paints somebody in the worst possible light. and i suggest the images you're seeing right now demonstrate that there was revolting behaviour all round and bastani. >> yeah, yeah . it's, well, >> yeah, yeah. it's, well, social media is just not the

best place to be having these kinds of conversations. and what i would say is in defence of that lawyer, arguably, he would say, presumably there's this massive public debate. you've even had andy burnham involved. you've had politicians getting themselves involved. and actually, i just want to put my client's side of the argument forward. it's already been heavily mediatised. it's already been, you know , extensively been, you know, extensively discussed the difference between people generally having a view on these things and discussing them, like you and me discussing them, like you and me discussing them, and a member of the legal defence team doing it now. >> it's very american, and maybe that's the way we're going to 90, that's the way we're going to go, but it's not the way we used to do it in this country, because you are. so you're so closely and directly tied to the case that's being mounted that i would just generally look not for me to tell him i'm not, you know, the solicitors regulatory authority, but i would be surprised if people regarded that as good practice to give a press conference, rehearsing partial points from your case to be made . be made. >> well, it's a masterclass in pr, isn't it ? whatever your pr, isn't it? whatever your whatever side of the argument you fall down on, that is for sure. many people pointing out,

and i think this is a sad reality for many people. obviously not all people, many people pointing out that actually now they feel that there is a loss of trust in the police . and i think that's police. and i think that's actually really quite sad, not least for the front line officers that actually have to try and deal with everything on a daily basis, because many people would argue that some of the priorities and all the rest of it, of course, are set from higher up, and it is the front line that bear the brunt of it all. do you still trust the police? and if not, why not, of course many of them are laying their lives on the line tonight and all the other nights. goodness knows what the evening will bring. look, let's talk, shall we, about nigel farage after the break, he , coming onto after the break, he, coming onto a of fire and criticism the moment. is it fair or not?

hi there, michelle dewberry alongside me, co—founder of novara media, aaron bastani and the conservative commentator alex dean . now there's so many

alex dean. now there's so many people spending an awful lot of time at the moment trying to point the finger of blame as to who is responsible for what. and how have we got here? because let's face it, quite frankly, the easiest thing for so many people to do is say it's his fault. it's her fault because all the time that they're doing that, you know, they have to look inward and go, actually, what have we done? what have our policies created? what is our failure to actually govern in the way that people want? what does that created? because those conversations are very, very hard to have. so instead, of course, it is just easy to go. it's him. he did it. the person that seems to be at the end of that seems to be at the end of that pointing finger is nigel farage, you know, those allegations are coming thick and fast, hashtag farage riots was trending the other day. >> yeah, i saw that. i think james o'brien's had to apologise for saying something like that. so it seems there are limits even for, pundits like that. look, i want to say this with the best will in the world, and no offence intended, but. and i like farage, and i've done his show and we work together on brexit and so forth. it's just not realistic to think we're

going to be able to have a conversation about the merits of what someone has done, whilst he's also a presenter on your channel, right? and if you don't say those things directly and frankly and honestly, then people will think, you think that we can't have a conversation. well, i just think it's weird to discuss it as if without acknowledging the fact that you're about to hand over to him if he's on at seven as he is. normally, ijust, ijust to him if he's on at seven as he is. normally, i just, i just in the same way, i thought it was strange to have members of parliament as presenters, which he now is. i think it's strange to try and pick over the merits or demerits of somebody without saying upfront. this is also someone who's paid by this channel, who is a presenter on this channel. >> yeah. good point. and it's now in the newsroom that i just assume that everyone by now knows that i just is right to say it's not. >> we're not having a conversation in a vacuum here. you're talking about someone who's a fellow presenter of yours. >> that's a very fair point. >> that's a very fair point. >> and hands up. i must confess by now i did just actually assume that everyone would have known that that's where he was. but you're quite right. you have got. make a good point. thank you. aaron. your point. >> i think farage is carrying on like he's still just a gb news

presenter. he's just a guy on instagram. he's just a guy on tiktok. he's now a member of parliament, and it's not good enough to speculate about something as serious as he did and then proceed to say , my and then proceed to say, my source of news was this website. and andrew tate , you're an mp. and andrew tate, you're an mp. there's only 650 of them. it's meant to be high calibre people and i, i actually i laughed when he said that and i thought, wow, i thought you're trying to present yourself as a serious political figure. you want reform to replace the conservative party good luck. if you're openly admitting that andrew tate is a source of news for you at a moment of national crisis, i've just got to say it because nigel is not here to defend himself, >> you know, let me just have a little listen , because you've little listen, because you've just mentioned this lbc clip, but actually what i will do, i will just go to nigel. he responded on his program last night , 7:00 responded on his program last night, 7:00 here. so responded on his program last night , 7:00 here. so let's night, 7:00 here. so let's listen to what nigel had to say himself. >> personally, i have to say i'm pretty disgusted by comments made by people like andy mcdonald from the labour party.

anna soubry, former conservative mp broadcasters like james o'brien on lbc calling these farage's riots people , saying farage's riots people, saying actually, i've been orchestrating , organising, orchestrating, organising, encouraging the riots . well encouraging the riots. well nothing could be further from the truth and because of that level of incitement to hatred against me, i've had to have a very significant change in my security situation . security situation. >> so there you go. that's him presenting that show last night . presenting that show last night. >> i look, on the one hand, nobody should be making threats about to farage. nobody should be making claims about him that lead to that kind of threats being made to him. and i don't think he's done anything to warrant that. on the other hand, he did say, muse, you know, are we really being told the truth? and they said, i'm just asking questions in a way that i've always hated. conspiracy theorists on the left saying, oh, what's the web of tufton street malice at play here? i'm just asking the question. and it's always the way that people try and make a point without being responsible for it, to say, i'm just asking the question. so you know, nobody

should threaten him, obviously. but i do think he, he had something to answer for. there >> indeed. well, look, your opinions will be divided on that one at home. i personally think it's always easier to point fingers of blame than it actually is, as i've just said, to look inward and say, actually, what has caused all of this anger on the streets of britain? because we're here, don't we? these labels of far right, this and far right that, and everyone trying to silence and everyone trying to silence and suppress people's concerns? nothing. and i mean nothing justifies the actions. the criminality that we are seeing on the streets of britain. i want all of that to stop. i want everyone to come together, i also think, though, that actually what's been causing the simmering tensions , it must simmering tensions, it must absolutely must be addressed. and if you ask me personally, i do think that that has been a failure of the response that we've seen so far. i would like to have seen something on that. on the two tier policing, many of you have got in touch with this exact same example, so

forgive me for not reading all of your names out, but many of you are saying two tier policing. michelle, who on earth was ever arrested or charged or anything for the fact that we've still to this day got a school teacher in batley in hiding, fearing for his life? i think you make a very interesting point. look, lots of people have got in touch tonight shapps they've really enjoyed the conversation that we've been having, so thank you very much. thank you, many people are still talking about this labelling, just this constant smearing of everyone with a label of far right. i don't think that is going to change any time soon. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news . news. >> evening. welcome to your latest weather update from the met office here on gb news. tomorrow is going to feel pretty warm and humid and after a dry start for many it's going to turn dull, with quite a few of us seeing outbreaks of rain and drizzle. not from this area of

low pressure, but actually from this rather innocuous looking set of weather fronts. the low to the north, though, is still providing some hefty showers across northern scotland. still pretty gusty here as well. a blustery night across the far north. elsewhere, the winds are easing. there'll be some clearer spells, a few showers across northern england, but they're tending to fade and then we'll see the cloud, rain and drizzle spilling into south wales and southwest england later in the night. quite a warm night here elsewhere, with some clearer skies, temperatures certainly rural spots could dip down to single figures, so for many it is a bright start to thursday. there'll be some sunshine around, still quite gusty across the far north of scotland with a few showers, but for much of scotland looking drier tomorrow with some decent spells of sunshine, we'll cloud over across the southwest as the cloud and rain spills into northwest england and parts of the south of northern ireland. a very different day for wales and southwest england tomorrow. a lot of cloud , rain and drizzle lot of cloud, rain and drizzle on and off for much of the day, particularly over hills and around the coast, whereas the midlands and eastern england,

after a dry fine start, will just steadily cloud over rain trickling into parts of the midlands, spreading across more northern parts of england. some heavier bursts of rain possible later in the day. not much rain for east anglia in the south—east, just turning cloudy here and the far north—east of scotland also mostly dry temperatures. 1920, maybe a little higher in the south—east. it is going to feel really quite warm and humid. however, the rain and drizzle will be still across the south early on friday, but it should scoot away. showers in the northwest. but for many friday's set fair a much brighter day for wales and southwest england for sure , with southwest england for sure, with some good spells of sunshine and a fresher feel . showery rain on a fresher feel. showery rain on saturday and it is likely to hot up again as we go through the weekend . weekend. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb

>> with 100 protests planned for tonight alone, i asked the question with my panel are people beginning to lose faith in the democratic process? because if they are , we're in because if they are, we're in very real trouble. labour have announced a big change in terms of social housing. they won't be banning people involved in rioting, but they've also got operation scatter where those that cross the channel will leave hotels and go into private and social housing. what political fallout will come from that? and as a result of net zero, we're hearing leaks from the national grid that we could expect blackouts across the south—east of england by 2028. have we literally lost our minds? but before all of that, let's get more news with sophia wenzler . wenzler. >> nigel. thank you . good