the whole rioting might see a whole new sea of authoritarian measures introduced into society. should it.7 what do you think? your society. should it? what do you think? your thoughts on that? many people absolutely disagree with that. other people say, do you know what? we deserve it. your thoughts and the labour party ngannou sorry, the tory party. we're going to re—evaluate the eligibility for social housing. labour is going to scrap that. the right move or not. last but not least, should shamima begum be allowed to return to the uk, then, after her latest court hearing, setback ? all of that and more. setback? all of that and more. but first, the 6:00 news headunes. headlines. >> good evening. it's just

coming up to 6:01. i'm karen walker here in the gb newsroom. the final child injured in the southport stabbings has been discharged from hospital and will continue her recovery at home, to according merseyside police. six year old bebe king, nine year old alice dasilva aguiar jiwa and seven year old elsie dot stancombe died after a mass stabbing at a taylor swift themed dance class in the seaside town last month. the family of the injured victim , family of the injured victim, discharged today, expressed gratitude to the royal manchester children's hospital for its support and care during what it called this challenging time . the prime minister is time. the prime minister is chairing another cobra meeting with law enforcement officials this evening to reflect on last night and plan for the coming days. joins by senior ministers, including the home secretary, yvette cooper, sir keir starmer is holding the third high level gathering of its kind in the last week, after threats of further disorder largely failed to materialise. on wednesday

evening, police had expected more than 100 events and deployed thousands of officers, the prime minister said earlier today. the additional police presence is having an effect. >> most important lesson is for those involving themselves in disorder because what we've seen is that those that are being arrested now numbered in their hundreds, many have been charged, some already in court, and now a number of individuals sentenced to terms of imprisonment. that is sentenced to terms of imprisonment . that is a very imprisonment. that is a very important message to those involved in disorder. >> meanwhile, police have ramped up efforts to pursue rioters as the total number of arrests it rides to four rises to 483 charges total 149. with that figure expected to rise significantly as investigations continue. the met's police made ten more arrests over the violent disorder outside downing street last week, launching raids in london this morning. street last week, launching raids in london this morning . a raids in london this morning. a suspended labour councillor has been arrested after footage

emerged of him online in which he allegedly incited the murder of anti—immigration protesters. met's police officers say they arrested a man in his 50s at an address in south—east london under the public order act. he is in custody at a south london police station. a labour party spokesperson previously told gb news his alleged actions are completely unacceptable and it will not be tolerated . a second will not be tolerated. a second great greater manchester police officer is under criminal investigation for assault after an incident at manchester airport last month. it comes after a video emerged of a man appearing to be kicked and punched by a police officer inside a terminal building. the independent police watchdog had previously announced a constable was under criminal investigation, but says it has since received further referral of complaints. the second officer is also being investigated for potential gross misconduct for alleged breaches of police professional standards, including use of force . now nhs waiting lists

force. now nhs waiting lists have risen for a third month in a row, according to new figures. health secretary wes streeting claims the number confirm, and i quote, a 14 year old conservative neglect has left the nhs broken, but there was a sharp decline in the number of people waiting the longest to start treatment today. he's spoken of gp's threats to take strike action. >> i think collective action at this stage would not only hurt patients , it would also put more patients, it would also put more pressure on other parts of the nhs when frankly, as a whole nhs team, we need to pull together so we can take the nhs from the worst crisis in its history to getting it back on its feet and making sure it's fit for the future . future. >> two writers have each been sentenced to two years and eight months in prison for violent disorder. on merseyside. 43 year old john o'malley admitted violent disorder, while 69 year old william morgan admitted to violent disorder and possessing an offensive weapon. more than 50 police officers were injured as protesters hurled bricks, lit

fires and threw bottles. a day after the southport attacks . a after the southport attacks. a banksy artwork has been removed from an area in south london, less than an hour after it was unveiled. the silhouettes of a wolf howling on a satellite dish was posted to the bristol based artist's instagram. this afternoon, but a number of men tookit afternoon, but a number of men took it from a roof in peckham, pushing a passer by who challenged them with a ladder. it's unknown where the artwork has been taken . and finally, has been taken. and finally, great britain's ellie aldridge has become the first ever olympic gold medallist in kite surfing at today's events in marseille . the discipline, which marseille. the discipline, which sees competitors fly above the water at up to 40 knots, powered by huge kites, is making its games debut. 27 year old aldridge, from dorset, powered her way to golds by winning both races in the final series. today well, those are your latest gb news headlines i'm cameron walker, back to michelle for the very latest gb news direct to

your smartphone. >> sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . gbnews.com forward slash alerts. >> thanks very much for that, cameron. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm with you until 7:00 tonight alongside me. i've got my panel. ben habib, the former deputy leader of reform uk, and tom buick, the visiting professor of education at the university at staffordshire. good evening gents, to both of you. you're very welcome tonight and you know the drill . you're and you know the drill. you're equally welcome on my programme. your views are very, very welcome. you can get in touch all the usual ways you can email gb views @gbnews. com you can go to the website gbnews.com/yoursay or you can tweet or text me. you're very welcome. if you're watching or listening tonight. so thousands of police of course last night were braced for another night of protest rumours, if you were to

believe them, was that it was going to be one of the biggest nights of action that we'd seen so far , i've got to say, didn't so far, i've got to say, didn't materialise at all. what we did see is thousands of anti—racism protesters. they took to the streets, in an apparent show of solidarity, and yeah, it was not what anyone was expecting it to be. and i've got to say, i'm very, very pleased about that. the sooner we can get some calm order and peace and civility brought back to our streets, the better is what i say. many people have been speaking out today, let's have a little listen to what keir starmer, had to say, shall we? >> i think the fact we didn't see the disorder that was feared is because we had police deployed in numbers in the right places, giving reassurance to communities. we were able to demonstrate the criminal justice system working speedily. so yesterday you saw the sentencing of individuals who had been

involved in disorder days ago, some of them getting sentences as long as three years. that sent a very powerful message. >> let's look at mark rowley as well. he's speaking out as well. >> there was a massive policing operation. i'm really pleased with how it went and we put thousands of officers on the streets. and i think the show of force from the police and frankly, the show of show of unity from communities together and defeated the challenges that we've seen. and it went off very peacefully last night, a couple of locations where some local criminals turn out and try and create a bit of antisocial behaviour, and we arrested a few of them, but it was a very successful night and the fears of sort of extreme right disorder and were abated. so a successful operation thanks to communities and police . communities and police. >> bannau gb views is the start of a new dawn . of a new dawn. >> i wish, i mean, it's remarkable, isn't it, that the prime minister and the head of the met are prepared to categorise all those who are

protesting against immigration effectively, both legal and illegal, as far right, those who come out in a counter protest come out in a counter protest come out in a counter protest come out claiming to be anti—racist and the language just talking about the politics for it about it for a moment, the language is all associated with discrediting the view that immigration needs to come under control, or that illegal migration should be stopped. i mean, i can't believe for a second that keir starmer or the head of the met actually know what the political disposition of all those rioters were to come out and say they're all far right. well, there could be some extreme far. i know lots of people from the left hand side of politics who are anti—immigration, and they've deliberately politicised it because they want to promote their agenda and shut down those of us who have a legitimate call for reductions. of the numbers of people coming to this country and, frankly, the cessation of people coming to this country

illegally from that you've got now, there is that there are many people, as you say, with what i would very much argue, legitimate concerns, that has all been overshadowed now, absolutely, by, criminals doing things like setting fire to libraries , setting fire to libraries, setting fire to hotels with people in there , hotels with people in there, battering cars because they've got brown people in what they've what they've successfully managed to do that that would have distracted from the protest. but what they've successfully managed to do is to lump all those who've got a legitimate concern . who would legitimate concern. who would have who would have protested peacefully in with those who weren't peaceful. and so the entire the entire protest, peaceful or otherwise , has been peaceful or otherwise, has been discredited by calling it far right. and that's the aim, that's the political aim. and keir starmer is the first one to point the finger at people who politicise difficult events. and he's just done it. he's exactly that's exactly what he's done and what he should have stuck to was the language you used, michel, where you said there were criminal elements. of

course there were criminal elements. they should be arrested. they should feel the full force of the law. but they're the criminal elements, and it wouldn't have undermined the protests. he's politicised it to undermine the protest. and i love the way that they i don't love it. i, i loathe the way that they call the counter protest anti—racist. you know, while they're while they're singing from the river to the for sea example, at those anti—racist, protests. >> i'll show you some else. it was apparently going on like those are so—called anti—racist protests as well. in a minute . protests as well. in a minute. anyway. tom, your thoughts mish i would just echo your comments. >> i think we can all be relieved that the there was no sort of violent disorder on our streets last night. i think it's just worth actually, reminding ourselves that i think the only arrest that's been made overnight, actually, is of a labour councillor, that is alleged to have incited murder through the comments that he made on social media. so i think that's slightly goes against. >> no, hang on a second. i need to just bring the facts into that because, i mean, you can

see the video because this was very widely shared, in fact, look at it for yourself. actually they are disgusting , nasty. >> and we need older roads and yeah, i mean , you know, that's yeah, i mean, you know, that's that's a labour councillor there. >> as you will have just heard, he's been suspended. >> he's been arrested, hasn't he? i understand, but i mean, my point really, in terms of that particular case was just really to say that the so—called anti—racism nice , kind, decent, anti—racism nice, kind, decent, other side of the argument . other side of the argument. yeah, but it was really just to push back on on ben and push back on ben, push back on ben, respectfully, in the sense of, you know, he talked about, well, they are trying to politicise this. it's all about labelling the far right. and while i would agree with you, you know, frankly, there's far too much of a use of these labels. you know, we do have serious concerns in this country around levels of both legal and illegal migration

and those millions of people should not be put into that far right label. but equally, you know, it's clear we've got overnight, for example, you know, we've seen , disorder and know, we've seen, disorder and pretty unsavoury language coming from the streets of so—called anti—racist, protesters as well. and so i saw all kinds of awful stuff going down and, croydon, did any of you see what was occurring in croydon that was that was regarded as, anti—social thuggery? >> that's their one way of putting it. i don't want to actually gloss over, though, the fact that, this labour councillor has been arrested. i think this is really quite interesting because i can show you the tweet actually from met police there, and i thought this was quite interesting. they took the step of retweeting the clip that i've just shown you. look, this is, met police on twitter. now so they actually retweeted that clip. essentially our quote tweeted it, whatever you want to call it and said an update. officers have arrested a man agedin officers have arrested a man aged in his 50s at an address in

south—east london. he was held on on suspicion of encouraging murder and for an offence under the public order act. he is in custody at a south london police station now, obviously because he's been arrested. i do need to let due legal process take, you know, it's kind of process there so i won't really comment too much on that. you can all see that with your eyes and your ears. what i find fascinating, though, is the amount of people these are supposedly the good ones, obviously. i mean, ben's just been saying to you, one side of the argument is constantly called far right, and all the names under the sun. these guys, counter—protesters, anti —racists these guys, counter—protesters, anti—racists the nice guys, apparently. they're all applauding that. did you see that? i did see that. can i replay that clip just in case anyone is hiding, hearing or heafing anyone is hiding, hearing or hearing or seeing, i shall just play hearing or seeing, i shall just play that that clip for you again now. but what you'll see is the fellow they're talking about essentially slashing the throats of people, that essentially disagree with you. and then you've got all people. can i play this again ? they are can i play this again? they are

disgusting, nasty. >> and we need to call them roads and. >> michelle, i mean, i challenge you. hang on. >> look at them all clapping and there's some fella and i have to add the word allegedly now because there's a process going on, some fella has allegedly, just said the things that he said. >> he's now been encouraged, arrested for suspicion of encouraging murder. arrested for suspicion of encouraging murder . people, the encouraging murder. people, the decent people apparently clapping it. >> yeah, but that doesn't make them guilty of the same alleged offence. >> i'm not suggesting it does, but it means that they agree. surely if you clap, if someone says, and i've got to be a bit careful because there's a process going on, but hypothetically, if someone was to stand in front of you and say we should slit the throats of anyone that disagrees with you, and you go , yeah! woo, yeah! and you go, yeah! woo, yeah! >> woo woo woo . tom. >> woo woo woo. tom. >> phyllida i mean, you could tom would never say that. could you. could be forgiven for thinking that. i actually agree with the sentiment that you've

just expressed. >> well, i mean, as a former labour councillor, i'm appalled actually, that, that those comments were ever made and there's no place for them in our society and there's no place either for people, cheering those sorts of comments on. but as i say, i think we've got to be careful here because we're also going to debate on this show tonight about actions that the regulator ofcom wants to take. and potentially, who knows. but new legislation that might be on the tracks, which is all about frankly, trying to which you touched on this point, ben, label people who have legitimate concerns. i mean, the psychologists will tell you when people get in groups, human beings, you know, lose quite a few brain cells when they get in. >> yeah, they behave differently. >> you know, the behaviour changes. and i think we should be giving those people who were gathered around that individual last night the benefit of the doubt. he will have to face the full due process, quite rightly, michel, as you say in due course. but equally, let's remember the narrative with what's been described as the good, decent people. >> whilst they are clapping along to the suggestion, the

implied alleged suggestion that someone's throat should be cut and they are held up as they're the poster people for how society should be. that's my point. >> yeah, but my point is, i think the vast majority of people that have turned out on our streets, on whatever side they are, so—called protesting on, actually are decent, law abiding human beings. but we do need to be realistic and not naive that there is also thuggery on our streets. some of it is organised, but the point i'm making some of its other types of thuggery that's going on, i mean, the point i'm making is that our political leaders, and certainly the head of the police, should not be politicising it. >> they shouldn't give in to this narrative of far right anti—racist. i mean, categorising those who wish to bfing categorising those who wish to bring down immigration is far right, is already categorising them in a negative way , them in a negative way, undermining the argument. and then the anti—racists of course, being anti—racist is all virtuous, but at the same time they're saying that those who are pro reducing immigration are racist , racist, far right. racist, racist, far right. that's effectively what the head

of the police and the prime minister are saying. they're not listening to the root cause complaint of the people of this country, which, by the way, just to remind everyone, you know, we voted to reinstall, reinstate our borders in 2016. we wanted to get rid of freedom of movement. we wanted our borders brought back. we wanted an independent, sovereign united kingdom. and the reason starmer politicises it, the reason he's prepared to give succour to people who are equally, disgusting on his side of the debate. he's prepared to give them succour because they follow his belief, his ideology, which is he wants to be in the eu. he doesn't want borders. he's fine with immigration because actually starmer doesn't care. and this is going to sound offensive to some people watching the programme. but i don't think starmer and people of his disposition care about the nation state that is the united kingdom. they've got some other kind of global construct in their head that they're championing, and they're not looking after the united kingdom, >> well, i've got to say, i

mean, you know, there's certainly no messing around when it comes to law and order on these situations , because the these situations, because the last count, there was about 150 odd people now that have been charged for their criminal behaviour, taking part in those riots. what i found interesting, we've heard all this kind of narrative that these are essentially the far right that have been bused in, from different areas. they've travelled to these areas to cause trouble. well, 80 odd percent of these charges, when you look at the location, apparently, they're from less than five miles away from where the disorder took place. so these are quite local people. one of my viewers yesterday asked the question, if you're local and you're on the streets because, for example, you want your country back. that's what some people chant. she says, why would you want your country back? only to set fire to it? it makes no sense. you're absolutely right. it does not make any sense, your thoughts on some of that? i shall bring you into the conversation after the break. but also now people are suggesting that we are perhaps

going to be moving into a more kind of authoritarian state off the back of some of this. do you think we are and do you think we deserve to? also, i want to talk to you about social housing a bit later on in the program. should there be a review as to who is eligible for access to that property? i'll tell you why i'm asking, a little bit later on, but for now, i'll see you in two.

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight alongside me, ben habib, the former deputy leader of reform uk, and also tom buick, the visiting professor of education at the university of staffordshire. you're very welcome along tonight. i'm asking at the start of the programme then, are we basically now in for a new dawn? are we going to have peace, civility , going to have peace, civility, normal life, i guess restored to the streets of britain? george

says please, can i just say i'm so glad that there were no riots or damage to people's properties or damage to people's properties or people getting hurt. that's echoed, of course, by lots of you, people. i mean, matt saying, if we've now in a situation where we've apparently got councillors accused or being arrested for threats , how on arrested for threats, how on earth is this people's definition of order being restored? very fair question, let's ask though, another fair question. do you think that we're perhaps edging now towards a bit more of an authoritarian state? there's a few reasons that i ask. let's look at this. this is the director of public prosecutions of england and wales . listen to what he had to say. >> the offence of incitement to racial hatred involves publishing or distributing material which is insulting or abusive , which is intended to or abusive, which is intended to or likely to start racial hatred. so if you retweet that, then you're republishing that, and

then potentially you're committing that offence also as well. >> ofcom, they have been, issuing warnings. take a look at this one, they've written open letters to social media platforms surrounding what they currently are apparently not doing when it comes to controlling online hate and violence, there was also headunes violence, there was also headlines today in one of the papers, about secretive , and i'm papers, about secretive, and i'm quoting directly covid era spy agencies have been brought in to monitor social media during the riots. of course , keir starmer riots. of course, keir starmer ben was talking about expanding things like social facial recognition, potential expansion of criminal behaviour orders and so on. it's all justified. i mean, this is all straight out of the eu playbook . of the eu playbook. >> i'm sorry to go back to the eu, but it's a really good example of, where keir starmer takes his lead from because the eu, whenever it's confronted with a crisis, what it seeks to

do is capitalise on that crisis and afford even more powers to the commission and to brussels. and starmer has obviously been paying and starmer has obviously been paying very close attention to what his mates in brussels are up to because, he's using this as an opportunity, as we've already discussed, to discredit his political opponents and at the same time to give himself more powers. police what's being said on the internet. it was really interesting to hear , that really interesting to hear, that comment about just retweeting something about racial hatred will make you complicit in it. and there are a number of things to unpick. there first of all, you know, i would argue that our regular regulatory and legislative framework is in itself prejudiced because of the promotion of ethnic minorities over and above and the detriment in my view, of the majority of the people in this country. so is the promotion of government policy. the promotion of racial hatred? question mark. that's how i see it. you know, we should have people come. we should have people come. we should have people come. we should have ministers, the prime minister coming out and saying

everyone is equal. i don't care what the colour of your skin is. everyone is equal. you never hear them say that. you hear them championing and celebrating those with protected kind of status, protected characteristics . fortunately, characteristics. fortunately, i fall in that group so they can't target me very easily. but it's not right . everyone should be not right. everyone should be equal and the notion that simply by retweeting something, you could become culpable. i mean, thatis could become culpable. i mean, that is a massive step forward in in in control as far as i can see, the flip side, because, you know, so much of this unrest, i've got to say, when you look into what sparked different things, a lot of it has. >> i mean, one of my viewers there, as you said, michel, can anyone point out that one of the reasons that the so called hundred, so—called far right process didn't happen last night was because he thinks it was all a bit of a ruse that it was a bit of a ploy, that is his sentiment. and this is one of the things that this whole incident has perhaps made a lot of people press pause and

reflect on, because a lot of people, and perhaps in some ways, instinct, you see something on social media and you literally just press share or retweet or whatever without actually pressing pause. so i think there's a lot of people in society going to be thinking now about, you know, should i retweet that? is that true? is that accurate? you might i'm not saying that means that you're there for a criminal. if you do press retweet. >> but yeah, and you might retweet to just bring people's attention to it as opposed to promoting it. you're not seeking to promote racial hatred. you retweet because you want to bfing retweet because you want to bring people's attention to it. so you're being found guilty on, on, you know, a relatively, i mean, it's a minor bit of action sending on someone else's message. i think they've got to get a grip of themselves. and we've got to be much more. we've got to champion. first of all, i personal agency. we mustn't infantilize people . we mustn't infantilize people. we mustn't think just because they've read it online. somehow they justify therefore to go out and commit violence. people, i read a lot of nonsense. i mean, x is full of nonsense. i mean, x is full of rubbish, isn't it? i just ignore it. and the notion that someone reads something racially

prejudiced and therefore is going to go out and start stabbing people is absurd. they shouldn't be allowed that comfort . they shouldn't be comfort. they shouldn't be allowed that kind of, people do get radicalised, though, don't they? but people, i tell you what the what really gets people radicalised is when the government doesn't listen to their legitimate protests. no one voted for mass immigration the way we've had it. we voted for the opposite. we voted for our borders to be reinstated , as our borders to be reinstated, as i said, and the government has done the opposite. and that will cause radicalisation. >> i'll come on to the overreaction of the director of pubuc overreaction of the director of public prosecutions in a moment. but i think just boiling this down to the key principle, and it's been vaguely referenced already in the conversation. i mean, for example, if you handle stolen goods in this country, knowingly handle stolen goods, you're an accessory to handling those stolen goods. so i don't think it's particularly novel in our legal system. but the idea, if you are well, if you are an accessory or if you encourage, for example, racial hatred and incitement, then you should face

the full force of the law, in the full force of the law, in the same way as anyone else. i don't think that's particularly a novel issue. i think where the overreaction is here, is in this idea of there are now hundreds of officers apparently scouring the internet, scouring social media, looking for criminal offences. again, we've always usually operated in this country that the idea of the police are the community and the community are the police, but actually we leave it to the community to decide when a crime has been committed against them. and they make a report to the police. and it's rightly investigated. it really concerns me that we've got the use of officer time in scouring the internet, looking for offences when we've got people who will be listening and watching this programme, who've been burgled or they've been assaulted, or they own a small shop and they've been robbed of their goods and they're told that the police cannot even come out and actually file a complaint with them, that i think is the real concern here

about , you know, an about, you know, an overreaction. >> i agree, that's a really valid point. >> and i mean, coming on to the online, well , what's now the online, well, what's now the online safety act? i think there were people at the time, claire fox is actually one of them regular. appear on this show and other shows on the channel. who warned at the time in the house of lords that this would result in the unelected state encroaching increasingly into the private realm and deciding not, in a sense , what is legally not, in a sense, what is legally harmful, but deciding themselves in terms of free speech, what they like or dislike as part of trying to create and reinforce a narrative that they think is the official narrative and the narrative that they want people to listen to. and really where i fall in this debate as a sort of free speech advocate, i suppose, is to say, and you touched on this, ben , is, you know, we need this, ben, is, you know, we need people to think about how they corroborate the information that they've got before them.

actually, elon musk made this point about x is one of the few social media channels where with the community notes, structure , the community notes, structure, there is actually now a right of reply of ordinary users to call out misinformation when they see it. you can't call out misinformation. you might hear on the legacy media at the moment. there isn't such a thing as community notes, so i think we need a grown up conversation with ofcom as exactly how it's going to go about regulating this important medium. >> well, i would abolish ofcom. i can't see what purpose ofcom serves. why do we need a regulator of, of, populated by people who are unaccountable to tell us what is and isn't acceptable on the airwaves? >> so are you suggesting that there should be no regulation at all? no. >> we have laws. we have laws which prohibit the incitement of violence. the laws that prohibit so now you want the police to sit there and monitoring. all know as as tom said, it should be based on complaints made, not on, not on the active. i mean, this is again, i'm sorry to say

this is again, i'm sorry to say this is a european model going out and finding a crime. you know, because under the european way of thinking, the kind of civil code approach to life, nothing is permitted unless it's expressly permitted by law. so they're always looking for people who've broken some kind of civil code. that's the way they do it over here. people can go. used to be it's no longer the case because we're infected by the european civil code. it used to be that people could do whatever they want as long as it doesn't infringe a law, and they're called out for it. we have a much more free wheeling , have a much more free wheeling, much more. therefore, from a commercial perspective , commercial perspective, entrepreneurial approach to life. and that's why we had such a successful economy for so many hundreds of years. >> ben, there's an annual report now that comes out by an international group called, civicus. they're a bit like amnesty international. they've downgraded britain in the last few years. we're now apparently what's described as an obstructive democracy. but we are, in other words, we're on that slippery path to authoritarianism. but we're

infected with europe. >> you know, we are infected with civil code, guilty until proven innocent. the european model about europe? >> no, no, 72% of the world's population. i checked this earlier. lives in under an authoritarian regime. many of those countries are outside europe. i don't think it's particularly. >> but our march is coming as a result of the bedrock of regulations that we've created through our european membership, which we still haven't got rid of. it's still there. sorry, tom, i've got to say, you know, asking the question is the uk are becoming or danger of becoming more authoritarian? >> dave said, yeah, of course we are . and that's what we get for are. and that's what we get for putting a prosecutor in the top job, but france has been in touch and said , no, this is all touch and said, no, this is all nonsense. the government is only a month old. why are so many people sitting here and making so many speculations? nigel g says michel. there is just so much tension in this country.

and at the end of the day, what will happen with those tensions? and i guess that is the million dollar question, because all of the stuff that's gone on in society, so much of it now descended into just abject criminality. there can be no excuse . and i repeat myself excuse. and i repeat myself often, there's no excuse for damaging places of worship, setting fire to hotels with people in them. there's no excuse for trying to, you know, chuck bricks and paving slabs at frontline police officers and so on and so forth . but there were on and so forth. but there were reasons that people originally and i'm not talking i'm not trying to justify the violent behaviour because i don't think you can justify that. but the protests started out as protests, and there were reasons that people took to those streets. what's going to happen to those concerns? because they're not just going to disappear. people are not just going to say, oh, you know, i can't retweet that, and i repeat myself all the time . censorship, myself all the time. censorship, is the midwife of extremism . so is the midwife of extremism. so yes, of course you can try and

beat the concerns down. you can try and push people into being silent . and i'm sure you can silent. and i'm sure you can achieve that in the short term. but ultimately, all you then do by trying to censor is you kind of birth extremism, because then people can't have their concerns in a moderate diplomatic , in a moderate diplomatic, reasonable way. so instead they then do turn to people on the more extreme fringes of the conversations that they want to be having. your thoughts on all of that? i want to talk about perhaps different, perhaps unked perhaps different, perhaps linked topics because social housing, who should be eligible for that? remember the tories, we're going to put it to consultation at labour. they're going to scrap those consultations and the potential review. so should there be cut offs and what should those offs be? your

hi there, michelle dewberry ben habib and tom bewick remain

alongside you. thomas. i went into the break. i was just saying there about, the comment that my viewer made about underlying concerns. we've heard from ben about his thoughts on the immigration stuff. you had some thoughts as well. >> yeah, just very briefly, because, you know, obviously at the moment the focus is on ensuring that this disorder stops on our streets and that we can all move on with our summers and our communities. all of them can live together in peace and all the rest of it. but actually, you know, i hope the government takes this opportunity to actually look at some of the deep divisions that are in our society. i care passionately as you know, michel, about education, there are students this week in england who just finished their gcse results. it worries me, for example, that we've got white working class boys on free school meals. nobody ever talks up for that group, but only 16% of that group will get five good gcses this summer. and you wonder then, why some of them end up as not in education, training or work. some of them end up on our streets as these thugs that on a label anybody

here? but it seems to me there are some deep structural inequalities that this government needs to get a grip of. >> yeah, i agree with that, i saw humberside police . obviously saw humberside police. obviously everyone will know some of the things that went on in hull at the weekend, and they announced they did a tweet yesterday. it was saying a 15 year old man, he'd been arrested for whatever it was. i don't know what he was throwing or whatever, and i retweeted and i said, well, it's not if it's 15, it's not a man, is he? he's a boy. and actually, i was that teenager in hull on those streets, on i will admit, i was on the wrong side of the tracks. and i said, you know what? if he's done wrong, he should be punished. rightly so. but actually, when he served his sentence, i would be willing to get in touch with him. and help mentor him and help try and get him on the right side of the track. because often a lot of these kids, they don't really have those kind of, i don't know, people around them to get them on the right tracks, do they? anyway, look, let's talk social housing because do you remember the tories? they were talking tough. they were going to bring in these consultations and they were going to do things

like, three strikes and you're out. when it came to certain anti—social behaviours and so on and so forth, basically make it tougher in terms of eligibility for social housing. anyway. it seems that labour, are not going to follow through with some of those plans. ben. >> well, i mean, it's a it's a great shame that they're not i think it's self—evident that we've got a lack of housing in the country, brits are queuing up to get social housing. they can't get it. that plays into the immigration debate as well, by the way. but i'm not going to go there, not for the purposes of this discussion, and it seems entirely reasonable to me that if someone has committed a crime , if someone has committed a crime, particularly someone who hasn't served the full time that they were sent away for, you know, been released early , that they been released early, that they should be at the back of the queue for social housing? i can't make any case for a veteran from the army being in a queue and you know, someone ahead of him having committed a crime and not even necessarily having fulfilled their entire sentence , fill their entire sentence, fill their entire sentence. and we know that the labour government is releasing people earlier and earlier

because they want to fill it up with far right, you know, rioters. >> stupid question. i probably should have researched the answer, but i just thought the question if you get sent to prison and you've got a council house, what happens to your council house whilst you're in prison? there's been some. >> yeah, just from memory. there have been some extraordinary cases, haven't they? where? apparently, if you're sentenced to less than a year, then you don't lose your council house if it's longer than a year. and of course, then we bring in the whole issue about, well, have you got dependants? are you leaving something behind because, you know, you can't you can't lose your council house if you're leaving innocent people behind living in it. but just on the sort of central issue, i mean, look, i'm, i'm pleased that the, the labour government's putting an end to the sort of gimmickry that we saw with the tories , the fact saw with the tories, the fact is, you know, actually talk about gimmickry, about reviewing eligibility for social housing, because when you look at the current housing crisis and social housing, we've got 1.29 million people on the housing

list that works out. if you're on that list, you would have to wait 55 years to get to the top of the list. so i think we've got to get this into perspective. whether you're a criminal or not, we don't have enough social housing in this country. as i speak. we've got 112,000 households, families, of which 135,000 of those are children who are in temporary accommodation. i think the focus, michel , accommodation. i think the focus, michel, needs to be on tackling the housing crisis, not, as i say, the gimmicks that we inherited from the previous government that wanted to go for a few soundbites in the daily mail about, you know, how tough they were on criminals. and we've as we know, we've got our prisons bursting at the seams because they weren't building enough prison places. >> well, there you go. what do you think about that? do you think there is fairness in eligibility? do you think it needs to be reviewed? and what about criminals? is it just, certain offences all offences. your thoughts on that? yeah. look, shamima begum, you all know who she is by now. do you think that she should have british citizenship? should she

be allowed back into this country or not? tell me. i'll see you in

hi there. michelle dewberry tom buick and ben habib. till 7:00. one of my viewers, ray, says , one of my viewers, ray, says, michelle, you've just been talking about eligibility and crimes and so on and so forth. when it comes to housing, he's put forward a scheme. he says, what about if anyone does anything wrong criminally or whatever, you could have like a point system, he said it could be like a driving licence. some people, ray, would say that that is some kind of like, social credit scoring system that if you're good, you can get points, and if you're bad, you can get points. some of you might be familiar with one of those many people would say, be careful what you wish for, but i hear you're thinking, ray, and thank you're thinking, ray, and thank you for getting in touch. your thoughts and all that. now, shamima begum, we all know that name. she essentially has lost her final bid to appeal her uk

citizenship at the supreme court. we all know she is. let me just bring you up to speed 2019. that's when she lost her citizenship, this was the home secretary then sajid javid. remember that, she's in a council in syria. she lost her appeal last year. she then took appeal last year. she then took a case to the court of appeal, where she wanted to get the citizenship back in february. that didn't work. then in march, she lost an initial bid to challenge that removal of the citizenship at the supreme court , citizenship at the supreme court, then she was able to ask the supreme court directly, apparently, for permission to have her case heard, that bid was dismissed on wednesday, now, apparently the next step will be to take it to the echr. so look, let me ask you guys at home and on the panel, should shamima begum be back in this country? ben. >> well, i, i don't think so. we've always had the ability to strip people of their citizenship if they have if they have another state to which they

can go. and i believe shamima begum would be entitled to be in bangladesh if she could find her way there. and, you know, she was a member of isis, she participated in, as far as i can see, albeit at a young age, but also as an adult in some pretty hyaenas sort of activities , hyaenas sort of activities, along with her forced husband or along with her forced husband or a husband of choice. you know, who knows? but she's not a pleasant character to put it mildly. and she was, i think correctly stripped of her citizenship. and i don't think the european court of human rights should have any say in whether or not the secretary of state in 2019 had made the right decision. it's been through the british courts, and i think that should be the end of it. >> that's a no from ben habib. tom buick, in short, michelle, she's our problem. >> she should come back and she should face justice. on the broader issue about the 1981 immigration act, which , immigration act, which, extraordinarily, does give the home secretary. yes. an elected

person appointed into our government, but with no, it seems, recourse other than the courts and the courts have turned this particular application down. why? because they are applying the 1981 immigration act with one of the few western countries that has this kind of power. i know, ben, you mentioned that, a person and this is true under international law, can't be made stateless as a result of the decision. but i take quite an absolutist view on this in the sense that she was born here. she's a british citizen. if we start getting into this idea that just because you're born to people of overseas heritage, then that opens up the idea that there's a two tier version of british citizenship. it's not you know, you're born here, but because you've got parents. i mean, she's never been to bangladesh, but she has a right to bengali citizenship, doesn't she? well, she may do, but the fact is she's now in a camp in northern syria . why can't we just bring syria. why can't we just bring her back? obviously, you know, we have top security jails. if there's a concern about her

being a national security risk, because that was the reason why the supreme court has sided with the supreme court has sided with the government more than anything. then she should go to belmarsh. she should be put on trial. she should face a trial in front of 12 jurors, 12 fellow british citizens. and if she's committed the heinous crimes that you allege that she has when she was a child, by the way, for most of that time, then she should face, obviously, justice in that sense. but i think just getting, you know, to allow. >> well, answer that question then he's saying she should be made to face justice in a trial. >> well, she's she has brought, her citizenship, you know, she's dragged it through the mud. she has she has been complicit. yeah. >> but on acting on this point of facing, british justice. >> yeah, well, i don't think she has . it's a privilege to face has. it's a privilege to face british justice. it's a privilege. and it's a privilege that she is issued by cavorting with enemies of the united kingdom and doing all the. >> so. i mean, it's not directly

related, but julian assange, who's just boarded a plane to australia, he had dual citizenship , by the way, on dual citizenship. >> we had a discussion in the green room. yeah. we did. yeah. >> but but you know, he wasn't stripped of his citizenship. and actually he did face justice in an american jurisdiction on his way back to australia. his government did everything they could to actually get him back to where he wanted to be with his family. it would be the same for shamima begum. she has family and connections here. she was born here. she was educated here. she grew up here. >> he has he committed crimes against humanity with enemies of the australian state. >> but she hasn't been convicted or british state. >> rather, she hasn't. yeah. >> rather, she hasn't. yeah. >> my point ben. she hasn't been convicted of any crimes. well, i can tell you what. >> all of this is costing us a small fortune. one of the last councils, about a quarter of £1 million in legal aid. and all this. lots. derek says the people of bosnia can have their citizenship removed. where will it all end? i can tell you, many people just have answered that question. should she come back with a big fat no? there you go.

look, that's all we've got time for, tom berwick. thank you for your company, ben habib. thank your company, ben habib. thank you for yours too. and thank you to each and every one of you for choosing to spend the last hour with me on dewbs& co. don't forget, you can always listen to us on the radio as well. if you're ever wanting to go out, take me with you anyway. that's all from me. nigel farage is up next. have yourself a fantastic evening and i'll see you tomorrow night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar, sponsors of weather on gb news >> good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather update brought to you from the met office. the grey weather will unger office. the grey weather will linger across the south first thing tomorrow, but in general it's looking much brighter as we head into friday. that's because a cold front will clear through the country overnight tonight and into tomorrow morning, introducing fresher air. but before then we've still got the milder humid air through the rest of this evening and overnight. so quite a close night to come . persistent rain night to come. persistent rain still continuing through this

evening across north eastern areas, but that will linger across the south and east until friday morning, making for a fairly grey start here tomorrow morning. temperatures already in the high teens as well, slightly fresher further for north much of northern ireland and scotland. and here there will be plenty of sunshine or more in the way of sunshine compared to today at least. still a few showers, though potentially some heavier ones affecting the northern isles. first thing tomorrow they could push into parts of south of western scotland as well, but it does look like it will remain largely dry across northern ireland. eastern areas of scotland, the south—east as well north eastern england not looking too bad, as well as wales and the south west. plenty of sunshine first thing and it's going to be turning much brighter across the southeast towards lunchtime as well once that rain does clear away. so certainly a brighter day to come tomorrow and it will feel fairly warm in the sunshine as well. however, across the far north that's where we've got a bit of a breeze and this risk of

showers through the day. so here still that fresher feel temperatures in the mid—teens, but further south were towards the mid 20s. so not feeling too bad, especially where the winds remain light. now the change on the way as we head into the weekend, another band of rain arrives across parts of england and wales, bringing outbreaks of rain showers continuing across scotland, but it will brighten up for many areas into the afternoon and again feeling fairly warm in the sunshine too. but it's sunday and monday when the temperatures really start to climb. plenty of sunshine around through these days and temperatures towards the low 30s. >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers sponsors of up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news

>> good evening. this time last night, britain was battening

down the hatches as up to 100 major riots were expected, but it simply didn't happen. was the whole thing a huge, gigantic , whole thing a huge, gigantic, expensive hoax? and stormont was recalled today? yes, northern irish politicians having their chance to debate the troubles that have been going on in belfast, which have replicated much of what we've seen across the rest of the uk, and indeed in the republic over the course of the last year. if they can have a debate, why on earth can't we? and if you are somebody who's very worried about global warming and a fan of net zero, i've got real bad news for you . coal is making news for you. coal is making a dramatic comeback . but before dramatic comeback. but before all of that, let's get more news with cameron walker . with cameron walker. >> thanks, nigel. good evening. it's 7:00. cameron walker here in the gb newsroom. the final child injured in the southport stabbings has been discharged from hospital and will continue her recovery at home. according to merseyside police six year

old b.b.