nigel farage. and as an italian sprinter, becomes the first transgender paralympian. what does this mean for disabled female athletes? all of that is coming up after your news headunes coming up after your news headlines with sam francis . headlines with sam francis. >> martin, thank you and good evening to you . it's just coming evening to you. it's just coming up to 7:01. well, the top story tonight , the health secretary tonight, the health secretary says the deaths of three people stabbed to death in nottingham last june could and should have been prevented. wes streeting says a review shows the nhs made multiple and fundamental failures in the care given to valdo calocane, who killed grace o'malley—kumar , barnaby webber o'malley—kumar, barnaby webber andian o'malley—kumar, barnaby webber and ian coates. the trust involved, though, insists it has improved what the care quality commission have uncovered is deeply distressing , most of all deeply distressing, most of all for the families of grace, barnaby and ian, who , in barnaby and ian, who, in addition to having to deal with

the unbearable and unimaginable grief they're going through, are doing so in the knowledge that this could have been prevented and should have been prevented, that there wasn't a single point of failure, but multiple and fundamental failures on the part of the nhs to manage valdo calocane treatment in a way that not only kept him safe, but most importantly kept others safe. a 32 year old man has appeared in court charged with the attempted murder of an 11 year old girl in central london, joanne pinnock has been charged with attempted murder and possessing a bladed article with prosecutors claiming members of the public intervened when the girl was attacked just before lunchtime yesterday . a 13 year old, who yesterday. a 13 year old, who prosecutors have alleged punched and kicked the door of a hotel housing asylum seekers , has housing asylum seekers, has today pleaded guilty to threatening unlawful violence. the teenager, who can't be named because of her age, is one of several convicted today after recent riots. she'll be sentenced at basingstoke

magistrates court in september. as we heard from martin at the top of the hour, conservative leadership hopeful tom tugendhat has accused sir keir starmer of a failure of leadership over the disorder in recent weeks. the former security minister said the disorder, seen on the uk's streets was completely unacceptable, and has condemned what he called racist thugs as he opened a speech in central london earlier. >> this has been the government's first real test and the prime minister fell short when we needed a strong government, we got a party in the mindset of opposition. we needed a leader. we got a lawyer waiting for the case to reach court. you have to be determined and aware throughout. you have to be ready to do the job from day one, 5000 migrants have crossed the channel and arrived in the uk since labour came to

power. >> former head of border force tony smith told us earlier that sir keir starmer's plans to smash the gangs will, he says, be very difficult to achieve. >> i expect the uk to be able to smash the gangs. if you like , smash the gangs. if you like, without some form of international collaboration, where powers can be used by other countries on their jurisdictions to bring people to justice and to prevent people and goods crossing borders, etc, rather than the uk being able to do this on their own . do this on their own. >> in the us, donald trump has called joe biden's decision to quit the presidential race a coup during the talks with tech billionaire elon musk last night. that interview finally got under way on the social platform x, with more than 1.3 million people tuning in after a delay, which elon musk has blamed on a cyberattack. well dunng blamed on a cyberattack. well during their conversation, the us presidential candidate criticised the eu and his democratic opponent kamala harris . and finally, in sport,

harris. and finally, in sport, england cricket captain ben stokes has been sidelined for the rest of the summer after a scan revealed he suffered a torn hamstring. the 33 year old had to be helped off the field in sunday's match against northern superchargers. ollie pope will now lead the team in his place for the three match series against sri lanka, which starts next week, though stokes is aiming to be fit in time for october's tour of pakistan . october's tour of pakistan. those are the latest headlines for now, i'm sam francis marten. up for now, i'm sam francis marten. up next. i'll be back with you in an hour . in an hour. >> for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com. forward slash alerts . gbnews.com. forward slash alerts. >> thank you sam. now welcome to farage. i'm standing in for the big man. i'm martin daubney now. senous big man. i'm martin daubney now. serious questions have been

raised about the conduct of our police in recent weeks, with two tier policing becoming a point of contention, but a new employment tribunal has raised further concerns about law and order in the uk. and that's because three white police officers at thames valley police have won a discrimination case after an employment judge ruled that they were passed over for promotion because of their race. detective inspector philip turner robson , inspector graham turner robson, inspector graham horton and custody inspector kirsty bishop had all worked at the force between 19 and 26 years, when they were effectively blocked from applying for the role of detective inspector. well, superintendent annie bailey was told to make it happen by appointing an asian sergeant to the post without even holding a competitive process or advertising the vacancy. so, as the enjoyment employment judge ruled that the decision clearly constituted positive

discrimination, what is happening at the heart of uk policing? well, to discuss this, i'm now joined by shabnam chowdhury, former detective superintendent at the metropolitan police force. welcome to the show, shabnam. always a pleasure to have your opinion. we hear a lot about two tier policing on the streets. would you concur? it's fair to say that this is two tier policing at the recruitment stage, three white officers clearly passed over for a vacancy simply because of the colour of their skin. isn't that racism ? racism? >> well, it is racism. and that's been defined as such. and that's been defined as such. and that they were disadvantaged and discriminated against and well done to those three officers for standing up to the organisation . standing up to the organisation. shame on the deputy chief constable and the superintendent, who decided to hold a process. it wasn't a promotion. in fact it was a job opportunity which at the same principles apply. and would you say it's two tier policing? no,

it's not two tier policing, martin. because if you look at the thousands of cases where black and minority officers are disadvantaged on promotion, development opportunities, there's factual evidence of that. there are a number of reviews and reports. the metropolitan police most recent one was a case review which talked about police officers being disadvantaged because of their the colour of their skin. however, what i would say in this case, these officers fitted into one of those eight protected characteristics race was being the case and i think they were described as white british officers, clearly disadvantaged. absolutely awful the way that they were treated . the way that they were treated. and let's hope that if there are others that those individuals responsible are exposed . responsible are exposed. >> shabnam, is this a consequence of the fact that the police themselves, they self—flagellate, they wear hair shirts, they continually tell us that they are institutionally , that they are institutionally, systemically racist. and as a consequence, there's been this

swing of the pendulum too far. the other way. two wrongs don't make a right. cases like this clearly show that we've just gone too far. and it's not fair. >> well , gone too far. and it's not fair. >> well, cases like this, and fortunately this is actually a unique unless there are plenty of others that you can think of. i can think of as many from officers from all different backgrounds, whether they're white, black, disability, from the lgbt community, whichever. but i don't think this is a case of policing gone horribly wrong. i think this is a case of the organisations concerned. many have already been labelled institutionally racist, homophobic, sexist, misogynistic, but clearly don't want to accept and own those labels . so want to accept and own those labels. so this is probably just another example of the way that officers are disadvantaged by, you know, poor leadership. >> do you think it's the case that this is rare, or do you think actually these are just people that are rare because

they've spoken out about it? the consequences of speaking out about racism, prejudice, when you're white, it's almost career ending. if you fail in your action. i speak to friends of mine who have been in the cop force for 810 years in nottinghamshire. they tell me this is routine. they absolutely believe that you're disadvantaged now going for a promotion. if you're a white person, the odds are stacked against you. it isn't a level playing field. you're at an advantage if you're an ethnic minority . martin, if you're gay, minority. martin, if you're gay, ihear minority. martin, if you're gay, i hear that. have you not heard that before? >> yeah, i hear people complain and if they've got complaints and if they've got complaints and they, you know, make a case for it as disease officers, then good luck to them. but if that was the case, then you would see an organisation that was full of black asian minority officers that were at the highest levels of policing, but they are clearly underrepresented in those particular areas. and actually you give a really good example of how people are, subjected to victimisation and isolation . i sit in that

isolation. i sit in that category for many, many years in my career. and actually your gb news is one of the only platforms where i get absolute abuse from your listeners or constant comments like, oh, she only got to where she did because she's female or because she's asian and she was probably useless. and you know, rubbish at her job. and then you get the pylons and stuff like that. that's what i was used to in policing and that's what i'm used to outside of policing. and ihope used to outside of policing. and i hope that those three officers that did complain and that won their cases are protected because they're could be subjected to victimisation themselves. but let's hope they have some very good support around them. >> well, i'm very sorry to hear if you get stick from from anybody let alone people from gb news. i'm desperately sorry to hear that , but back to this case hear that, but back to this case in point, do you think these kind of cases help people from an ethnic minority background or any minority background? if there is this feeling? no doubt you said this yourself in the past when we've spoken before. shabnam, you only got this job

because you're in a privileged and an advantaged group. as a consequence, it kind of undermines the whole process . undermines the whole process. >> it does. and. and you bring on another really good point, because what actually happens is when those black and minority officers are in policing that are really, really good at their job and they're constantly being hounded because a case like this could actually elevate that to other people thinking, see, we told you so because this is what a lot of people think, already and now all those officers that work damn hard, whether they're black or white, whichever , on black or white, whichever, on both sides of the coin, but particularly black and asian officers, they get labelled and they get tarnished, and then it makes their life very, very difficult when they're trying to do the job. and let's be very clear, there are some absolute useless police officers within policing. there are absolutely fantastic ones too. and there are those that should never have got into the job. and we're finding that out , particularly finding that out, particularly around the corruption and the, you know, the challenges around the dirty cops that you have in policing. but equally, everybody should be treated on their

merits. and if they get a job and they apply for their job, they should get it on the basis of one that they were good at the promotion or the assessment centre, and two, that they can actually deliver on the job that they're applying for. >> okay. qadam chowdhury , former >> okay. qadam chowdhury, former detective superintendent at the met, thanks for opinion and once again, i'm sorry to hear that you get sick. i know that you're an excellent copper and you deserve your job totally on merit. thank you. shabnam. now joining me is my panel in the studio. now we've got the human rights campaigner and activist peter tatchell and the communications officer at the i e reem ibrahim. let's start with you , peter. what's your take on you, peter. what's your take on this? this is clearly a case that's captured the headlines. we don't hear of it this often. do you think it's fair to say, though, that we. the point i made to shabnam that has the pendulum swung too far? we do hear a lot of cases in the raf, in the army, in lots of our pubuc in the army, in lots of our public bodies. now, white people feel they're discriminated against. do they have a point? >> well, there's no doubt that in some cases, white people are unjustly passed over. but

looking at things overall, at most higher level posts in the army, the police, the government, and so on, you often see in the civil service, for example, a predominance of white people and an under—representation of black and asian people. so that is the context . and of course, that context. and of course, that does not justify what happened to these three white officers. but the overwhelming majority of cases of discrimination are discriminations against black and asian people , not against and asian people, not against white people. i think these particular cases with these three officers is quite rare. no justification whatsoever . justification whatsoever. indeed, the employment tribunal ruled that, given the under—representation of black officers , that it was a officers, that it was a legitimate aim to seek to promote an asian officer. but it was but it was not a legitimate method. >> why is it legitimate to promote people simply because of

their. no, no, no. their kind of their. no, no, no. their kind of their skin colour, their sexual racism. >> it's racism effectively and effectively. what we're saying here is that discrimination in all instances is wrong. i think we can all agree with that wholeheartedly. of course, there is going to be an overrepresentation of white people in higher offices because the majority of people in this country are white. we cannot sit here and actually talk about these kind of instances and think about under—representation . think about under—representation. and if anything, i actually think that black and asian ethnic minorities or all of these different terms, i don't even know where i sit in that particular term. but ethnic minorities are in many ways overrepresented in some instances, if we're talking about it by proportion of the entire population in the uk. so i think we have to be very, very clear. discrimination on the bafis clear. discrimination on the basis of your gender, of your sex or indeed of your race is wrong in all instances. and that discrimination against white people seems to be increasing. i actually think what's really interesting about this is

clearly there is a reputational link. you know, companies themselves will often implement these kind of diversity quotas in order to come across as though they are much more woke. they are much more kind. they actually care about diversity in those ways. and what we are doing is sacrificing merit. you should only be judged based on how good you are at the job and not by the colour of your skin. >> and peter, i totally agree. and that's indeed what the employment tribunal ruled. they said it's a good thing to uplift black and asian officers, but not in this way where a relatively junior asian officer, a sergeant , was promoted above a sergeant, was promoted above three white officers who had more qualifications, higher rank and experience. >> and back to the point that i put to shabnam there, and that is if there's this suspicion, this whiff that you're only promoted if you're an ethnic minority, if you're lgbtq, whatever it is, because of that status, that doesn't help anybody. >> absolutely not. it's got to be based on merit and experience. and that was clearly not the case or appears not to

be the case with regard to these three white officers. they they should have got the job. >> we see this time and time again. and ultimately, i believe it's the government's fault. we see this in legislation and equalities legislation that promotes this kind of behaviour. and i mean, you mentioned the civil service, peter, the fact that we have a civil service fast stream only for black, asian and minority ethnic, i think is absolutely disgusting. this is racism that is being perpetuated by the government against white people. i think we should be abolishing all of those kind of streams altogether, and we should be looking at things on the basis of what how they're actually how good they are actually at the job. because, as you said, i mean, what this does is it means we take away the kind of value that these people have. and somebody like shabnam will be accused of only getting there because they're an ethnic minority. i get accused of it all the time. and maybe there is some truth in that. maybe the fact that an ethnic minority young woman has an opinion that is more so on the right, means that more people want to listen to it. there are conversations that need to be had here about what the root cause of these problems are. and i think it is absolutely disgraceful that our

taxpayer money is being spent on these kind of discriminatory schemes. >> superb. great stuff. great start to the show. and thank you, brian. thank you peter. and we were nodding on and agreeing there. what a great soul. thank you. now coming up next, all the latest on the tory leadership race as tom tugendhat calls for an end to mps culture of denial over violence across the uk

welcome back to farage. i'm standing in for the big man. i'm martin daubney now. the tory leadership race is definitely heating up. today, former security minister tom tugendhat has called for a national conversation about the collapse of social trust, as he calls it, in the wake of last week's riots, claiming the unrest has been fuelled by misinformation and the rise of both islamists and the rise of both islamists and also far right extremism, even attacked the reckless political rhetoric of the man

who was meant to be sat here. reform uk leader nigel farage. let's take a listen. >> after the attack on those little girls in southport. nigel farage claimed the truth is being withheld from us later he justified amplifying this false information by saying he had believed influencers like andrew tate . tate. >> well, that was tom tugendhat putting the boot in. and meanwhile shadow housing secretary kemi badenoch is under fire for comments made on the house of commons back in 2018, in which she supported relaxing immigration rules for high skilled workers. and she's now distanced herself from those comments. but will it damage her chances? well, who has the early lead in this race? well, joining me now is the former tory mp and minister sir john redwood. me now is the former tory mp and minister sirjohn redwood. sir john, always an absolute pleasure to talk to you. so the early shots have been fired. tom tugendhat, let's start with him having a severe dig at nigel

farage for his reckless rhetoric. does he have a point? >> well, i think it would be better if the leadership candidates and the conservative party concentrated on what the government got wrong and why it was that so many people either went to vote reform or stayed at home, because i certainly found dunng home, because i certainly found during that election and the polls bore it out, that the tory vote roughly halved from 2019 to the latest election. and most of them didn't go off and vote labour or liberal. indeed labour's vote actually fell and the liberal vote stayed at a very low level. and suddenly from nowhere, reform got 14% and turnout fell about 10%. so we know that most of the disgruntled conservatives either voted reform or they stayed at home. so the leadership candidates should concentrate on why did that happen and if they stayed in the government throughout the period, as four of them did, they have a

particularly difficult task to explain why they didn't notice all the things that were going wrong? why they didn't believe the opinion polls, which were telling us for a couple of years that we were going to be wiped out, and why they didn't do something about it, because some of us on the backbenches were constantly having conversations with them and other members of the government saying, for goodness sake, control immigration, for goodness sake, improve the economy rather more. for goodness sake, get tax rates down because you put them up too high. the things that would have actually won some of those voters back, but they obstinately refused to do it. >> and so, sir john, the attack on kemi badenoch, dragging up comments she made back in 2018, saying that she wanted to move away from a 20th century conversation about immigration and let students stay in the country for six months after graduating to lift the caps on immigration, precisely the sort of thing that went down like a cup of cold sick at the general election with conservative

voters. now it's being dragged back up. she's saying that her opponents are clutching at straws, but it does seem like something of a u—turn again. what's your take? >> well, it certainly looks like that. i mean, it was a statement in the house of commons, so we can all check that she actually said it. but i think that's the less serious criticism. i think the more serious criticism is she and the three others who stayed in the government knew that a group of us were telling them that a considerable chunk of the conservative electorate was extremely angry, that we had stood for election in 2019. on getting total migration down from around 200,000, which it was then, to a lower figure, and it actually hit a peak of 740,000. it was completely unacceptable. and they wouldn't accept amendments and proposals that we were putting to them as a collective government to do something about it. it was only towards the end, in january of this year , that the prime this year, that the prime minister saw the point and made some changes to the rules over

how you qualify to get into this country legally, which are now having quite an impact on the numbers. but it was a bit late and then he didn't allow a year to show the public that this was actually going to work and make quite a difference to the numbers and meanwhile, the other members of cabinet who are now trying to become leader of the conservative party have not been speaking out and have not been recommending such action, and indeed rather more action than the government took . the government took. >> so, john, can i put a poll to you today that came out an ipsos poll, which may be of great concern and it said that 62% of voters simply don't care who the next conservative leader is. and in fact, 36% of conservative voters don't care who the next leader is. does that sort of point to the sheer level of disengagement, point to the sheer level of disengagement , despondency, and disengagement, despondency, and disappointment with the conservatives, not only from the wider electorate, but from your own voters and where do you move on from there? >> well, that's why. and that's why i'm challenging the leadership contenders to get

rather more realistic about the whole of the conservative party has found itself in the conservative party, only got 24% of the vote in the last general election, and labour only got 34% of the vote because they were actually losing votes. and they were unpopular as well, because people thought there was quite a lot of similarity between the policies the conservatives had been practising, and quite a lot of the policies which labour would have carried on with or are now carrying on with. and so, yes, there's a massive disconnect between the consensus policies the two main parties have been following and where the bulk of the electorate has moved to. and that's why i think the challenge has to be to these leaders who want our votes in due course, in the membership part of the contest, to be rather more searching and rather more apologetic about what the government got wrong, because clearly it got quite a lot of things wrong. and then to show how they can rebuild with a sensible conservative proposition and above all, how they are going to oppose this

government. because what i'm quite sure is this government is going to make things worse, in many cases, not better. and so there is a very important role for her majesty's opposition. and it is a privilege for those in parliament to be leading the opposition. they've got to do it well, because that might improve the government. >> okay. thank you very much, sir john redwood, always a sirjohn redwood, always a pleasure to have you on the show. thanks for your input. now, of course, i'm still joined by my panel. that's the human rights campaign and activist peter tatchell and the communications officer at the institute of economic affairs . institute of economic affairs. reem ibrahim. let's start with you, reem. that poll, i think, makes for a very, very sobering read. it's one thing for two thirds, almost of the population voters to not care, but the eyeballing stat, there is 36% of tory voters don't even care how big an existential problem is this for the tories? >> it's absolutely huge margin and i think what's really interesting about the conservative party leadership election itself is that not many of the stories, not many of the press releases, have ended up on the front pages or ended up in

news headlines. now, the conservative party the right as a whole, need to look in the mirror and have a conversation about what it actually stands for. the conservative party in 14 years presided over the highest tax burden since the second world war. immigration at record levels . and actually, record levels. and actually, despite the fact that the conservative party themselves seem to have come from the route around freedom of choice and individual liberty, they wanted to completely ban tobacco. so i think what's really interesting about all of these conversations is the right need to look in the mirror and ask themselves what they stand for. now, on this point about kemi badenoch herself, i personally agree with herself, i personally agree with her comments back in 2018. i think we should be allowing high skilled people come to this country and work. we have currently there's like 500,000 students and dependents. >> i mean, this this is the policy the electorate's conservative voters wholesale rejected. >> yes. so i think i think what's interesting is that the headune what's interesting is that the headline figure matters. we cannot handle more than 600,000 people coming every single year. we just cannot handle it.

however, we should be thinking about who those people are. we need highly skilled workers. we want intelligent and wealthy people to come to this country and invest. or we could just train our own workers and make them highly skilled. we've got 5.3 million people out of work benefits. maybe we need to start looking at home first before we start criticising those particular people. >> peter thatcher, what's your take on this? lots of infighting going on, blaming nigel farage, no exhuming comments from six years ago. kemi badenoch, they're fighting like rats in sack. >> well, kemi badenoch is clearly eyeing the tory leadership race. she's clearly out there to ensure, to ensure that she stands a good chance because she wants to win over the grassroots voters. and we know that they are very strongly anti—immigration. know that they are very strongly anti—immigration . so that's why anti—immigration. so that's why she's doing her her big volte face about immigration. and as has been mentioned by reem, you know, we do need skilled workers . know, we do need skilled workers. you know, skilled workers add to this economy . so being against this economy. so being against new skilled workers, being given

visas, that is just an own goal. but it's bad for the economy. >> but a report was out yesterday talking about the number of jobs given to nigerians and indians since the brexit referendum greatly outstrips the number of jobs that brits are taking, and that's because a lot of those jobs are low skilled jobs. they've lowered the bar, they've lowered the salary cap, they've lowered the salary cap, they've lowered the salary cap, they've lowered the skills requirements. and as a consequence, we're forcing . the problem with that forcing. the problem with that is that brits are end up on the dole. >> but this is the point, right? i think the problem is that we have such a huge welfare state. how many people are coming to this country and indeed british people that have come here that were here initially are actually taking up other taxpayer money. i think it's immoral . we're i think it's immoral. we're seeing more than 5.3 million people on out of work benefits, andifs people on out of work benefits, and it's you and i. it's hard working taxpayers that are paying working taxpayers that are paying for those particular people to stay at home. and then we then subsidise that and fill up, fill in the gap with low skilled workers from abroad. we need to be, first of all, looking at home and thinking about why we're spending so much money on welfare benefits. i think many of those people, by

the way, 5.3 million people, many of those people may be, may, may well be sick. many of them may well be sick. however, if all of them are sick, then thatis if all of them are sick, then that is a health scandal or it is a huge and egregious waste of taxpayer money, or indeed a waste of human potential. these are people that could be working, could be contributing, but are not. i think we need to look at home first and then have a conversation about where we can plug in the gap with with other skilled workers and invest more in apprenticeships and apprenticeships to help british people get the skills that they need. >> and we need for our economy. >> and we need for our economy. >> and we need for our economy. >> a positive note to end on, i think, one we can all agree on. thank you reem. thank you peter. now next we have a gb news exclusive for you . the cost of exclusive for you. the cost of the migrant crisis has increased nine fold. an astonishing wait for it. £6.6 billion last alone. astonishing. more on

break.

welcome back to farage. i am martin daubney standing in for the big man. now. the latest figures from the home office have revealed that the cost of the migrant crisis has surged nearly nine fold over the past five years. the budget has simply skyrocketed to £66 billion for the year between 2023 and 2024. well, joining me now to discuss this is the chairman of facts for eu, lee evans. lee an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. once again, these figures are absolutely eye—watering. there's been a massive massive increase. talk us through the stratospheric rise in the cost of the british asylum system . of the british asylum system. >> yeah. thank you, martin, for having me on, what we tried to do. everyone knows that the migrant crisis has been growing and growing fast. what we tried to do was interrogate government papers , specifically home office papers, specifically home office papers, specifically home office papers, to see if we could work

out just exactly how much it's costing and the latest figures that we have, as you quite rightly say, 6.6 billion, for the current. well, for the year 2324. so just ended in march and goodness knows what it's going to be for this year going forward , but that's a, that's forward, but that's a, that's a quite a staggering amount of, of money. and it shows a almost an exponential growth really over the last few years when we look at, why this has happened, you know, the home office talked about small boats. it's the first thing they mention, is being small boats. and further down the list , just to be fair, down the list, just to be fair, there's also the issue of settlement of afghanis and 1 or 2 others that probably the british public wouldn't object to too much. but the sheer hotel costs are such that the government's own chief

independent chief inspector of borders and immigration , borders and immigration, described them as as quite incredible . and he also said, by incredible. and he also said, by the way, that, home office data, is unbelievably awful. in terms of its quality, we can vouch for that because we've spent three weeks working on this set of reports , which gb news has reports, which gb news has covered, and to try to get to the bottom of exactly what the figures are has been a very difficult process. so we have great sympathy with the chief inspector, who, by the way , was inspector, who, by the way, was fired by then home secretary james cleverly, and lee evans , james cleverly, and lee evans, i'm going to interrupt you there because that's the next stage of your report, and we're going to do that as another gb news exclusive later on this week . exclusive later on this week. >> let's get back to this one, because there's enough meat on the bone here to dig into one of the bone here to dig into one of the astonishing lines that leapt

out from your report at facts4eu's .org, was that you don't think this is the true figure? do you think the true figure? do you think the true figure could be even higher? you estimate it could even go as high as £10 billion per year. this is simply. lee evans unsustainable, >> yes , it most definitely is. >> yes, it most definitely is. and, the reason we say what what we say is because it's based on experience. eight years working seven days a week, interrogating information like this, you gain a sense . and so what we've done a sense. and so what we've done in our report , which you're in our report, which you're covering is quantified what we know of. but we never quantify what we don't know of. we just simply suggest that it may be a great deal more. and one of the reasons we say that martin is it's quite important, reasons we say that martin is it's quite important , trying to it's quite important, trying to establish which of the areas of spending from the home office

are in, in various categories. i mean, if you just take one strategy, for example. well, an element of strategy, which, by the way, will will use some very expensive, salaried staff at the home office, an element of that is going to be strategy on immigration. can we identify that cost ? no, we can't . that cost? no, we can't. >> and lee evans i'm going to refer to another report. you did previously. and that was quantifying the number of illegal immigrants that have gone into the 27 eu member states, something like 4 million over the last nine years, including 676,000 to italy. interestingly, sir keir starmer thinks doing a deal with italy would unlock the small boat crisis. well, they can't control their own borders. lee evans, we have to leave it there. but we're going to join you again later this week. always an absolute delight to have you on the show. let's cut back to the panel now to get some reaction to what i think is simply

astonishing set of figures. peter tatchell, whatever your thoughts on asylum, those kind of numerics, they simply cannot be sustained. >> the cost of the asylum system is unacceptable and it's needless and unnecessary. it could be cut at a stroke . one of could be cut at a stroke. one of the main reasons for the costs. >> by closing the borders, no, one of the main reasons is people who come to this country who apply for asylum are banned from working the government puts them up in hostels, takes red carpet . carpet. >> hang on, hang on. the government puts them up at taxpayers expense, in hostels and hotels. it pays them a benefit every week . those benefit every week. those people, many of them, have skills that we need . while their skills that we need. while their asylum claim is pending. they should be allowed to work. are you saying? let me finish. are you saying? let me finish. are you saying? let me finish. are you saying let me finish? let me to be productive members of the economy, to pay tax and national insurance, to be an asset to the country? that's the way to cut the asylum bill. okay, reem ibrahim. >> look, listen , are we >> look, listen, are we

seriously suggesting that all of those ostensibly young men that come over on dinghies are going to be high net taxpayers brain surgeons, aircraft pilots? i don't think anybody is suggesting that. we know that they are generally low educated , they are generally low educated, low socioeconomic groups. the nofion low socioeconomic groups. the notion that we will give them all jobs, that will just roll out the red carpet to the entire world. >> yeah. so i think it's really interesting. i do think that peter is right in saying that actually the fact that we're paying actually the fact that we're paying taxpayers are having to foot the bill for those particular people. and then at the same time, those particular individuals are then forced to be reliant on the taxpayers. now, a lot of them actually do end up working illegally, end up in the gig economy. delivering your indian takeaways , etc. your indian takeaways, etc. however, i whilst i agree with peter's initial point that taxpayer money shouldn't be wasted in that way, if we were to allow anybody that's on the asylum backlog to work immediately, that would just act as yet another magnet for those particular people to come over

here. and ultimately, i'm of the view that actually, if you come here illegally, they're illegal migrants. if you come here illegally, you should not be allowed at all end of. >> but when your asylum claim is assessed, if you fail it, then you're out of the country. >> yeah, but that doesn't happen. >> but that should that should happen. >> that's what we need to do. >> that's what we need to do. >> we need to fix the system. so those who fail the test, who are not legitimate refugees, they are removed. >> the home office seem to allow so many, so many different types of people that come into this country in the first place. however, those particular people on the asylum backlog, they are still waiting here. they are in limbo and i agree with peter's initial point that actually it's unfair that those particular people are forced to effectively be reliant on other taxpayers. however, we cannot come into the country illegally. yes, i completely agree. i think the problem here forced to be independent, to be on the benefits or when they when they come here, they're not thousands and thousands of pounds euros, whatever it is to get here because they think they're going to win the lottery. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> no, i completely agree. and then ultimately when those particular people are here,

we're then rewarding them by giving them a hotel that is again taxpayer funded and giving them a job. >> it'll be an even bigger reward. it's not giving, you know, if they if they if they contribute to the economy. >> i think that's perfectly fine. however, they've come here illegally. we have to uphold the rule of law. we saw, i mean, was it just a year and a half ago that a quarter of people that were coming here claiming asylum were coming here claiming asylum were from albania? it's a completely safe country. and those we have to deal with the albanian government that then stopped that. we need to ensure that we separate illegal migrants from those that are genuinely seeking asylum. and the problem is the home office have this huge backlog as as the last guest has already entailed. there are this huge backlog. so we don't know who these people are. there's also the second point i want to quickly raise with peter's particular argument that actually, if we were to allow all of these people to come here and work, we don't know who they are. we don't know their criminal backgrounds, we don't know what kind of cultures they terrorists. >> they could be members of islamic state. >> rhiannon peter, we have to move on. but thank you for a passionate debate. now, gb news can exclusively reveal that nearly 5000 small boat migrants

have crossed the channel since the keir starmer became prime minister at the start of july. now, with the recent bouts of good weather, more than 800 migrants made the illegal journey on sunday and monday. it comes as the labour government starts work on their new border security to smash the gangs. okay, still to come an italian sprinter is to become the first transgender paralympian to compete in a women's race. what does this mean for the games? is this a total setback for female athletes ?

welcome back to farage with me. martin daubney standing in for the big man now, valentina petrillo, an openly transgender sprinter, has been selected to represent italy in the paralympics. she is 50 years old, transitioned in 2019 and is visually impaired. now the candidate is to compete in the

women's 200 and 400m in paris. petrillo has previously won 11 national titles in the men's classification. while commenting on a predictably controversial issue, andrew parsons, the president of the ipc, said that he wants to see the sporting world unite on transgender policies. well, that might take some doing to try and do that. now i'm joined by the human rights campaigner. of course, in the studio, peter tatchell, and the studio, peter tatchell, and the transgender teacher and journalist debbie hayton. debbie, let's start with you. the olympics caused a huge storm. we saw two biological men win the women's boxing. it's created a huge conversation. i think a massive headache for the entire olympic community moving forward. and now we move on to the paralympics. is this somehow worse? a biological man who competed as a man now competing, competing against disabled women? >> well, in the olympics, it was

a case of two athletes who had a difference of sexual development. so that was a different issue. here we've got somebody who is a typical xy male like me , competing with xx male like me, competing with xx females . and this is wrong as as females. and this is wrong as as an xy male. we've been through male puberty. we get a huge advantage through male puberty. we return much of that advantage and it leads to competition which can't be described as fair going on in paris. >> peter tatchell is hard to disagree with that sport has to be fair. >> absolutely. you know, we can't have people having unfair advantages. the question is, how do we measure that unfair advantage and the precise advantage and the precise advantage that individual trans athletes had is still open to question of course, if they've gone through puberty. as a general rule, a trans person will have an advantage, muscular and skeletal. that's true. and that's the case in this in this instance. but not every trans woman is the same. so for example, i have a trans woman

friend who plays in a women's football team. she is one of the smallest and most petite members of the team. biological women tower over her both in height, strength, muscle and skeletal advantage. no one can say that she has an unfair advantage, so i would say there's got to be individual assessment and if a particular trans person does have a deemed unfair advantage, then of course they shouldn't be allowed in the women's side. but not all trans women will have that advantage. >> but isn't the only way of deaung >> but isn't the only way of dealing with this? debbie a simple cheek swab test? do you have an xy chromosome? do you have an xy chromosome? do you have an xy chromosome? do you have an x x chromosome? the rest is mere detail. >> yes, we can sort the rest out later. do a cheek swab to find if somebody has got a y chromosome, yes or no. and that that creates the default situation. which category you go into. then you can perhaps look at certain differences of sexual development. you know, you can look at those conditions compassionately and see perhaps some we would include and some we would not include. but that's

different here. we're talking about transgender people who have been through a puberty, who have been through a puberty, who have been through male puberty and returned the advantage. and peter will say that not everybody is going to win. the is going is going to win against the women. if i was running the park run as a female, i wouldn't have an advantage over the 15, 15, 16 year old who won the rest of the women. but by competing as a female, it's wrong, because i would be pushing women down down the wrong category. there's still men of transition, but they're still men to beat. but valentina says she's undergone hormone therapy. >> testosterone levels are down. she's actually saying she's weaker than much weaker than she was as a biological male. >> it may be the case, but still went through male puberty with with a skeletal and the muscular advantages that that gives. >> but she's what she's suggesting is that, in fact, going through the hormone treatment, many or some of those advantages have been diminished. and if that is the case, i don't i can't assess because i haven't

got all the evidence and neither have you. but if that is the case, then we have to question does she actually have an advantage? and what i would like to see urgently is some really important high class research to establish more accurately, precisely what advantages that some trans woman may have. and then we can make a clear decision and a fair ruling, because there shouldn't be a blanket ban on all trans people without the clear evidence. >> but, peter, you used the word fairness and fairness in the eyes of 99.9% of people watching is if you're a biological man, you have an unfair advantage. if you're a paralympian, if you're a regular olympian, if you play any sport , that surely is the any sport, that surely is the case. debbie. >> yes, and fairness is that we compete against our own sex. i'm not decrying trans rights. i'm a great believer in trans rights. i am trans. but let's put our energies into providing proper changing facilities for example, for trans women who are competing against men . that's

competing against men. that's where we should be campaigning, not campaigning to involve ourselves in women's sport. that's for the opposite sex. >> there's a big issue, i'm afraid we have to leave it there. thank you, debbie hayden. thank you very much. now, coming up next, the state of the nation with tom harwood tom watts on your show . your show. >> goodness me, martin, it is a busy , busy show. today we're busy, busy show. today we're looking at the state of law and order, dissecting a war of words thatis order, dissecting a war of words that is developing between the reform party, the tory leadership candidate tom tugendhat. even indeed, what kemi badenoch has to say too. but we're not just looking at that. we're crossing over to the atlantic . the eu has been atlantic. the eu has been threatening, elon musk and twitter, too, and we're going to be looking also at defence. there's a very interesting story about defence. >> thank you tom. well thank you peter. thank you debbie i'll be back tomorrow. 3:00 martin daubney show. thanks forjoining daubney show. thanks for joining me tonight. stick around for the nafion me tonight. stick around for the nation first though, it's your weather with annie shuttleworth . weather with annie shuttleworth. >> it looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers

sponsors of weather on gb news. >> hello. good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather update. brought to you from the met office . cooler and clearer met office. cooler and clearer across northern areas tonight . across northern areas tonight. damp and cloudy further east, which will mean any viewing of the meteor shower will be a bit limited for more central and eastern areas. that's because this weather front that's been lingering across the west will finally push further eastwards overnight tonight, spreading cloud and rain into central areas of england at first this evening and then into the south—east, probably by tomorrow morning. for the north and west, though, it's clearing up quite nicely and the winds will ease as well. after a breezy day, so that will allow temperatures to fall away much lower than they have done lately. we could be down as low as 4 or 5 degrees rurally. some towns and cities dipping into the single figures as well, but pretty murky. start across central areas of england and the south—east first thing tomorrow. plenty of sunshine though, for the far north of scotland, in particular eastern areas. seeing a great a great

start to the day. but as i said, it could be fairly fresh. but the sun will come up and warm things up quite quickly. fairly good conditions across parts of northern ireland, northern england, western wales as well, but it's northeast england, central areas and parts of the south—east are likely to see quite a grey start to the day . quite a grey start to the day. risk of rain is more limited. i think some of us will see some patchy drizzle at least through the morning. that could last into the afternoon, particularly across the far southeast. but in general it will turn a little bit brighter as we head into the afternoon across central areas and across the north. it's going to be a fairly fine day. plenty of sunny spells and it should stay dry. light, lighter winds mean it will feel fairly warm in the sunshine. highs of 22 or 23 degrees, but the next band of wet weather is arriving on thursday morning, particularly across western areas of scotland, where it will persist, as well as northern ireland, northwestern england as well. and that will sink southwards through thursday, quite slowly lingering across the south and east as we head into friday. so a bit of a potentially wet day

across southern areas on friday. but looking ahead to the weekend, it looks fine, dry and warm . warm. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> a very good evening to you. i'm tom harwood gb news, deputy political editor and welcome to state of the nation. tonight tory leadership candidate tom tugendhat gave his take today on the recent disorder we'd seen on the recent disorder we'd seen on the streets, branding sir keir starmer as a lawyer , not a starmer as a lawyer, not a leader. is this really the reason? law and order appears to have reached breaking point in this nation? more than also on the show? more than 1.3 million people tuned in live to hear donald trump and elon musk's live discussion on twitter . the live discussion on twitter. the eu issued a warning beforehand,

and the chat was marred by tech issues. but what can we take away from that conversation? also, the ministry of defence is getting tough on spending with civil servants now forced to get approval for any projects costing over £50,000, a hefty reduction from the previous limit of £2 million. but is this going to slow down and bump up our defence procurement? and the chairman of a pro fox hunting group has said that the hunters should be protected as an ethnic minority. is there a real legal case here to be made, or is it just some foxing around the state of the nation starts now . state of the nation starts now. throughout. i'll also be joined by a cantankerous panel. the former editor of the sun, kelvin mackenzie, and former labour

special