it was expected to rise a little bit more. so is this good news bad news or are you indifferent? also as well? if prices are on the rise, you think to yourself, i know what i need to do. make sure that i'm working to pay my way . if that's the mindset, then way. if that's the mindset, then why on earth are millions of capable brits not working? how do we fix that problem? also, i want to ask you about nigel farage as he becoming a bit of a scapegoat. now with everything

that's going on in society. and also speaking of society, want to look at some of the sentencing that's been taking place and also apparently white working class boys feel separated from their society. and that is one of the causes of the riots. is it ? peter hitchens the riots. is it? peter hitchens and aaron bastani will be going through all of that and more with me. but first, the 6:00 news. >> michelle, thank you very much and good evening. the top stories from the gb newsroom . stories from the gb newsroom. ukraine's top commander says 100 russian prisoners of war have been captured in the kursk region. it's after ukraine launched a surprise offensive that president zelenskyy has admitted was easy and met with little resistance . it comes as little resistance. it comes as the russian city of belgorod has declared a state of emergency amid daily ukrainian shelling that the governor says is destroying homes and killing

civilians. evening standard defence editor robert fox says ukraine wants to keep the russians guessing. >> they're probing. they're pushing, yes, you said they've got into the kursk pocket, zelenskyy admitted with great ease. zelenskyy admitted with great ease . they're now probing now ease. they're now probing now away to the south and the east, to belgorod , which is where all to belgorod, which is where all this started, keeping the russians guessing again. the game at the moment is to throw the russians off balance for as much as possible . much as possible. >> the australian department of foreign affairs has confirmed an 11 year old girl stabbed in leicester square is an australian tourist, australian consulate officials in london are offering support to the girl's family. it's also been reported that the victim, who suffered eight stab wounds to the face, neck and upper body, will likely require plastic surgery . a woman has been jailed surgery. a woman has been jailed for admitting to sending a threatening message on facebook in the wake of the recent riots and disorder across the uk , 53

and disorder across the uk, 53 year old julie sweeney sent the following facebook message on the 3rd of august. she said don't protect the mosques, blow the mosque up with the adults in it. a judge has encouraged prosecutors to consider charging offenders who played central roles in the recent disorder in parts of the country, a charge that carries a maximum sentence of ten years. reform uk leader nigel farage has no future in the conservative party. no matter who replaces rishi sunak as leader. that is, to according tory leadership candidate mel stride. mr stride today confirmed that he wouldn't allow him to sit on the conservative benches in the commons. it means that all of the six candidates to replace rishi sunak as leader have declined to work closely with nigel farage. the position is in contrast to sunak, who twice told gb news last year that farage could join the party, saying it was a broad. church. officials say two men found dead in a burned out car in sweden were british

nationals. 33 year old juan fuentes and 37 year old farouk abdul razak were reported missing last month after failing to return home from a business trip. the families of both men have paid tribute to two beautiful, innocent, hard working souls. the swedish prosecution authority says its investigation into the deaths is ongoing . in other news, violent ongoing. in other news, violent attacks against women on british railways have more than doubled since 2021, new data shows. the number of crimes against women and girls rose by 50%, and the number of sexual offences jumped up number of sexual offences jumped ”p by number of sexual offences jumped up by 10%. unacceptable behaviour such as touching, upskirting or indecent exposure is being experienced by women more than ever , with 51% of more than ever, with 51% of female victims stating that other rail passengers intervened to try to help . safeguarding to try to help. safeguarding minister jess phillips says violence against women and girls is a national emergency. >> the government have made it incredibly clear that tackling the scourge of violence against

women and girls is part of its core mission. we consider it to be a national emergency and that that won't just change overnight. this is going to take the levers of government working across every government department, making sure that in our education system, for example, that the attitudes that end with men on our transport systems harassing and assaulting women are dealt with at source i'iow. now. >> urgent tests are underway on a canal in the west midlands after a sodium cyanide spill. walsall council said the environment agency told it about a toxic chemical spillage that went directly into the canal at pleck on monday. a major incident has been declared and people are being warned to avoid the 12 mile stretch of canal leading to birmingham. sodium cyanide can cause seizures, vomiting and loss of consciousness, and the latest figures show inflation rose for the first time this year to 2.2%

in the 12 months to july. the increase was widely predicted and is largely due to prices of gas and electricity falling by less than they did a year before. chief secretary to the treasury darren jones said the new government is under no illusion as to the scale of the challenge. we have inherited . challenge. we have inherited. those are the latest dup news headlines. for now, i'm tatiana sanchez. more from me in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . forward slash alerts. >> hello there, i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company until 7:00 tonight alongside me , my panel, a alongside me, my panel, a columnist at the mail on sunday, peter hitchens and the co—founder of novara media, aaron bastani. good evening to both of you. you're very welcome, as are each and every one of you at home. so tell me

what is on your mind tonight. get in touch. all the usual ways you can. email me gb views @gbnews. com. you can go to the website gbnews.com/yoursay or of course you can tweet or text me and i always say it's not just about us, it is about you. so do you remember the programme last night? one of my viewers actually got in touch with me with a request at the end of the programme. do you remember this? look tracey? it was. she sent me a message on twitter and she said, michelle, can you give us some positive news? it's all so depressing recently. i love the show and i watch it every night with my husband chris. well look at this. one of my other viewers, colin, because i was asking you all, do you know of any positive stories, and if so, send them my way for the programme. well, colin, he got in touch saying, what about that story about the street cleaner, his community ran a gofundme page to get cash for him to go on holiday, but his company said that he couldn't accept it. well, i thought to myself, colin, what a good story. indeed.so colin, what a good story. indeed. so look, we tracked this fella down. so we did. and it is

a lovely story and you can see the whole story on our breakfast programme tomorrow. but long story short, this is a fella called paul speers. he is a street cleaner in south—east london, he his community rallied around him. they loved him. wanted to send him on a dream holiday. they crowdfunded and raised £3,000. let's have a listen to him. >> i think that voucher, which they're going to send me when i can go on holiday and hopefully i'll be flying out saturday. well, they did say if i wanted to go two weeks, they'd pay me for the two weeks, but i'm going to try and split it, so i'll take a week now and maybe a week later on. >> he's a smart fella. el—sisi so he's been finally allowed to get his £3,000 dog. he's off on his holiday. did you notice he went as soon as i can, i.e. saturday? he's not wasting any time, is he? but he's mixing it up. he's going to split his holiday. and i liked that because you know what? there's so many, underappreciated people

in society that just keep their heads down. they graft away. do they get any thanks? do they? eck as like, often they get nothing but a shedload of abuse. so i like that story. so thank you very much to colin for suggesting that one i appreciate it, where's my bubble ? let me it, where's my bubble? let me p0p it, where's my bubble? let me pop it, because that is the end of the good news, i'm afraid, because the inflation rate that was released today and you guessed it, did it stay stagnant or reduce? no, it did not. it actually went up. i've got to say it went up to 2.2%. but i've got to say it was expected to go up. it was predicted by some economists to go up by quite a lot more , but it didn't. so lot more, but it didn't. so there you go. there is some good news. there your reaction to this? >> peter hitchens well, first of all, what economists predict and what happens is often very different things. and we should be used to that by now. but inflation, as we call it in these figures , is a very small these figures, is a very small part of a general rise in the cost of living in absolutely every area, which i don't think is properly measured by these figures. most people are still

suffering greatly from the fact that they earn pretty much the same as they always did, and they're paying a great deal more for everything they need. and this is the result. and i keep on saying it of the crazy policies adopted by the government with the support of the public during the covid panic , when billions and panic, when billions and billions of pounds were poured down, the drain by a government which didn't actually have them. and if you think this is the end of it, wait for more. because the general state of the economy is so atrocious that almost anything could happen. >> now i'm bastani. >> now i'm bastani. >> so inflation has gone up, but still 2.2% is very low in the context of the last two years. long gone are the days of ten, 11, 12% inflation. that really did happen. really extraordinary. and wages are rising more quickly than inflation. so in real terms we're not getting poorer. that's the main thing. however, i will add to the pessimism and the scepticism of peter, which say that one thing that is really not reflected in the baseline inflation figures is housing costs. people's rent often increases by far more than the inflation figures show . inflation figures show. >> well, there's the thing mortgages, the most important things are left out of the oh no

sorry. we don't put that in the inflation figure for some reason or other, which is one of the reasons why i've never trusted them since the days when i was an industrial correspondent and the i remember the department of employment, which used to handle them, changed from the retail price index to the tax and price index to try and make it look as if it wasn't as bad as it was. and that was the first time i realised that all important government statistics are fiddled, which they are. >> what do you make to that? get in touch and tell me your thoughts. you'd be thinking then, if prices are indeed continuing to rise, many people might be sitting there and going, gosh, how do i make ends meet? do i get a second job? for some people, they don't even have a first job. i've got to say, this whole worthlessness, the number of people that are economically inactive, this is again, come under the spotlight. get this, everybody at 9.4 million people working age out of work in this country, i've got to say this includes a variety of different people. so you've got 2.8 million people on

long term sick. you've got 2.5 million people that are students, 1.7 million people looking after family or the home or whatever. you've got a million people that have retired. you've got 27,000 people that are discouraged , people that are discouraged, workers who say that their main reason for not seeking work was because they believed that there was no jobs available. i don't know where they're looking, anyway, which leaves quite a lot of people that fit into none of the above. and this whole category, the 2.8 million people that are on long term sick, there's quite a few eyebrows being raised, even just about that number. peter. >> well, so there should be, but it's a long term deal. when the conservative government in the 19805 conservative government in the 1980s de—industrialized the country , an awful lot of people country, an awful lot of people were put on to what was called some sort of sickness benefit at the time rather than on normal unemployment benefits. the benefits were higher and also they were kept off the actual unemployment figures. so both the people involved and the government benefited from the pretence that they weren't really unemployed. i would say that they were. and this country has for many years had much

higher unemployment than it admits to for that reason, and we've never recovered from that deindustrialisation and the sort ofjobs deindustrialisation and the sort of jobs which are available now are generally not as well rewarded. and people can't as they used to be able to do. for instance , finance family life on instance, finance family life on one income as they did before. we have a completely different labour market, and at the same time we have, as i constantly point out, one of the worst education systems. if not the worst education system in the advanced world, which doesn't prepare many people, particularly the children of the poon particularly the children of the poor, for working life. and they as a result , they don't end up as a result, they don't end up working. and on top of that, the catastrophic collapse of the married family in the absence of fathers from the lives of many children, especially boys, again undermines the potential of people to be effective workers. and that also helps to make them unemployed. so we have many social problems which are represented in these figures and are partly hidden by them. but it's not just a problem of let's have more jobs and which of course is the reason why, when

we do have more jobs, the government response tends to be to import more people from abroad. aaron. >> yeah, the long term sickness benefit stuff is interesting because for a long time and peter's right, it's often associated with chronic conditions in post—industrial areas. what we're seeing more recently, certainly amongst youngen recently, certainly amongst younger, younger age workers , is younger, younger age workers, is an upturn in mental health related conditions. it's in absolute numbers. it's not huge, but you can see a shift, particularly amongst under 25, under 30s. and i think this is the sort of issue where actually it's not a case of we can't afford to address this, we can't afford to address this, we can't afford to address this, we can't afford to have better mental health intervention with the nhs, etc, more integrated services. we can't afford not to do it. if somebody is not able to work for several years because of a mental health condition, actually first class care from the nhs is not a luxury, it's a necessity. >> but what does mental health condition mean? an awful lot. i know we disagree on this. a lot of doctors are confronted by people who are unhappy and living miserable lives, and they

andifs living miserable lives, and they and it's easy for them. and it's some sort of at least temporary solution for their patients if they're then classified as depressed and had prescribed for instance, antidepressants, and they then fall into the category of mentally ill, which wouldn't have been regarded as mental illness actually, until quite recently. so i'm not quite sure these statistics mean what they appear to mean. again, it almost all important statistics are in some way misleading. >> do you agree with that? >> do you agree with that? >> no, i think i think anxiety and depression are very real conditions. i mean there's a there's a spectrum with regards to mental ill health. you can have somebody like the nottingham attacker who was clearly a danger to society and should have been institutionalised and then you have people who just can't be as effective as they'd like to be in their everyday lives because of things like anxiety or ptsd or depression. and of course, not all of those can be treated effectively or easily. but i think the fact that we have, we have so many people who literally i know so many men who

genuinely struggle to get decent mental health care from the nhs, just because, you know, the sort of political orthodoxy is just open up, just talk about it. no. if they were just offered a decent talking therapy for 3 or 4 sessions, actually that probably would have helped a heck of a lot. so i sort of disagree a bit with peter on this, but, you know, maybe that's a generational thing. >> well, no, it's not because there is. there's actual hard evidence of this, the basis of an awful lot of diagnosis of mental illness is the diagnostic and statistical manual of the american psychiatric association, which is pretty much adopted here for these purposes. and what it has increasingly done is it has medicalized things which would previously not have been seen as, as, as illness. the other thing is this that you have the response. you rightly point to such things as talking therapies , such things as talking therapies, which can indeed be very effective. but the response of much of the health service to this is to prescribe antidepressants, chemical so—called medication , the

so—called medication, the effectiveness of which is, i shall put this as mildly as i possibly can, doubted by some people . and there's the other people. and there's the other thing, of course, which is that an awful lot of people are genuinely unhappy because they've been they've been brought up in, in broken families and broken homes and or other circumstances which have made them genuinely unhappy and they they might turn to a doctor and say, can you help? but there's very little a doctor can do about a life of that kind. and then there is the final thing that we've built a society in which basic human exercise has been almost entirely eliminated. people just don't actually do any exercise as a normal part of life. and this is very bad for them, and it makes people unhappy. i don't i'm not disputing that such a thing as clinical depression, the so obviously is people are irrationally unhappy. but there are many, many reasons for it which are not being explored by a society which is really not fundamentally interested in the issue because it responds pharmaceutically rather than socially. >> in 2022 to 2023, 8.6 million patients. that's just in england

were prescribed antidepressants. now, many of you are watching perhaps will be on these medications. and this is such an interesting topic, and it's certainly one that we're not going to fix in the here and now. but for many people and i mean, i've, you know , everyone mean, i've, you know, everyone probably knows that i've had my own mental health challenges. so i'm not trying to undermine that or, you know, suggest that it doesn't exist. but i just worry, aaron, that we sell people this kind of fake ideal. we bombard people with all of this kind of imagery about life and all. look at me on my social media or my perfect world and my perfect family. and then that creates this kind of sense that, oh, look at me. i'm failing in my life because i don't have this. i don't have that. i'm not here. i'm not there. so there must be something wrong with me. and that exaggerates or makes people's feelings worse. but if only people, sometimes i want to shake people and say, if only you understood that so much of what people present their life to be on social media is not true. i'm not saying they're awful people that are

deliberately lying, but they're trying to present an image to trying to present an image to try and monetise things or whatever, but it's just not true. and i think it leaves people feeling worse about themselves. do you? >> i think that's a big part of it. well, it's certainly a part of it. you know, i saw an amazing phrase the other day watching television about a successful marriage. and somebody said, you know, there was i think there was a couple they were together 50 years. and they were together 50 years. and they said, do you know how many times you have to forgive somebody to be with them that long? and it's so true, this idea that a relationship lasts a long time because everything's lovey dovey all the time, actually, it's often very, very hard. there's this instagram post by molly mae and, was it, tyson fury's brother tommy? tommy fury. they've separated. >> yeah, i was gonna say the only reason i know this everybody is because it's in the news today. it was top story somewhere that day, but that was that was the picture postcard. >> kind of, you know, social media stuff. and that relationship didn't work out. and so you're right to say that appearances can often be deceiving. >> yeah. and i've got to say, the flip side of this as well,

because i've employed people that have mental health issues andifs that have mental health issues and it's so challenging to manage as an employer because, you know, i remember someone saying that she was so anxious she could only come to work if she could only come to work if she was given an office overlooking the thames to try and manage her anxiety, and she would just not turn up for work. you'd be doing, you know, business critical tasks with deadunes business critical tasks with deadlines associated to them. and she would just go awol. and then when you eventually tracked her down, days later, oh, i had a depressive episode, and i didn't feel able to pick up the telephone. but then when you looked at her social media, while she wasn't able to pick up the telephone to her employer, she was certainly able to go to pubs and bars and all the rest of it in the meantime, make of that what you will. some of your experiences. do you think that we're just getting a bit soft when it comes to mental health? do you think some people are just kind of, i don't know, pulling the yarn a little bit? or do you think that we need to be doing much more to support people that are suffering in this way? after the break? i want to talk to you about a lot.

nigel farage is he basically getting scapegoated? white working class boys? are they disconnected to their society and that's why they have been doing things like rioting. and what about some of these sentences that have been dished out? do you support this kind of crackdown, or is it getting a little bit bizarre to put it mildly, all of that and in

hello, i'm michelle dewberry, aaron bastani and peter hitchens remain alongside you having a conversation in the break there about pharmaceuticals and how there seems to be something for everything these days. is that a good thing, though? always or not, daryl says , michelle, thank not, daryl says, michelle, thank you for that road sweeper story. you've started telling me your story, he was telling me about how many donations he's been giving out, including to people at mickey d's. he says, because they are often underappreciated. now, that is a good shout. anyway, look, we'll always try

and find positive stories where we can. so if you've got any of them, do feel free to send them my way. but look, the tory mp, mp , mel stride, he has been mp, mel stride, he has been saying what he's been saying quite a lot, quite frankly. but anyway, he's been saying that white working class boys apparently feel distanced from society, and he feels that that is one of the things that has to led the riots that we've seen on the streets. aaron, is that fair? >> i think the formulation is all wrong. there's a few things to say. firstly, often you'll see people saying, actually young men of, various minority communities, afro—caribbean or south asian or east asian or whatever, they're more likely to go to university than, white british boys. therefore they're doing better than them. firstly, that doesn't mean anything. just because you're getting yourself into 40 grand worth of debt doesn't necessarily mean you're achieving much, and very often working class boys , of these working class boys, of these kinds of backgrounds , we've got kinds of backgrounds, we've got a few places where they're

talking about with regards to deprivation in places like middlesbrough, blackpool, liverpool, hartlepool, hull. young boys from these places tend to go into are more likely to go into, for instance, trades, vocational trades , then trades, vocational trades, then people who go to university. and you know what? it's a really smart choice. they make a lot more money doing it and they don't get in debt doing it. so i don't get in debt doing it. so i don't buy that. then secondly, white working class boys, i mean, look, my view is this so many people in our society, particularly younger people, don't feel like they have a stake in the country. and that's a huge problem. that is a huge problem. and of course, people are going to have a range of proposals on how to remedy that. but this idea of white working class boys, and it's coming from a conservative mp and they were in charge for 14 years. it actually gets my back up because they were part of an administration which provided so little hope for, i don't say young people, really, anybody under 35. i think in the last 15 years thinks the country has gone backwards. i know there's many people on 35, two, but i'm

just talking about the group. he's talking about, and they don't feel like they have a stake in the country or its future. so it's irritating. he's talking like this the minute they're no longer in charge. >> do you agree with that, peter? >> oh, partly. but my main problem with all this is , first problem with all this is, first of all, i don't think there have been any riots. what there have been any riots. what there have beenis been any riots. what there have been is outbreaks of disorder. to call them riots is to make them sound far more important and significant than they are. they're not they don't have any political aspect. people who have a political axe to grind like to claim that they're riots. so they can say, well, if you listen to me and done what i said, you should do, there wouldn't have been these riots. so the riots were caused by you not doing what i said you should do. i think this is a feeble form of politics. people should be very careful before trying to attribute any political significance to events of this kind. it'sjust significance to events of this kind. it's just violent disorder and that's all. it's been. and this it works in the opposite direction in the supposed brixton riots of 1981, when there was violent disorder, which the left played upon to try out very successfully as it

happened to , to basically happened to, to basically disembowel the police and say that they should have an awful lot of their powers and strength taken away from them, on the pretext that the that the brixton disorders had been caused by a particular kind of policing, which they didn't like, and people will do this all the time. i remember going over to france during some alleged riots. it was just a bunch of kids setting fire to cars in various suburbs of paris. there was no there was nothing political about it. people should not use it now beyond that, on the question of white working class boys , white working class boys, there's no question at all that this is a section of the population which has been cheated by the, the, the school system for a very long time because since 1965, the rule has been that if you if your parents have no money, either to pay school fees or to buy a house in the catchment area of a better school, you will get a bad education. so there's some truth in that. but it's certainly i agree that for the conservative party to get worked up about that, something which has had

multiple opportunities to correct ever since it first came back into office in 1970 after the abolition of the grammar schools began, and has done absolutely nothing at all. they really haven't got any business complaining about it. >> now, when you say about terminology that we maybe shouldn't call them riots, but there's other people on the other side of the fence, perhaps that would they've been pushing to get some of this activity that we've seen on the streets, defined as terrorism. >> well, that's, i think, equally wrong . it's it isn't. equally wrong. it's it isn't. there's a lot of things are politicised, which are not a lot of events which later turn out to actually be mental health events committed by people who've had their minds overthrown by drug abuse are described at the time, and often for many years afterwards, by media and politicians as terrorist actions when they're not. we should be very careful about attributing the terrorist motive to events until we can actually show that this is so. no, i don't think that makes sense either. >> so what do you think to this whole have you seen this? i mean, i've seen quite a lot of

people, particularly online, suggesting or expressing disappointment that no one as of yet has been convicted under a terrorism charge? >> well, counter—terror legislation is used very widely, and it has been really since the blair years. so for instance, many people are detained or arrested under counter—terror legislation all the time, actually, with regards to protests, with regards to disorder, that happens all the time, in terms of the terrorism , time, in terms of the terrorism, terrorism label , time, in terms of the terrorism, terrorism label, i'm reticent to use it. but then there are certain things which i think absolutely fall under that category. so for instance, there were telegram groups talking about how the home secretary needed to be murdered. there were messages where people specified particular individuals who should be isolated and again, murdered. those who committed that murder would be, heroes of the quote unquote movement. so i think that quite clearly, to me, falls under the rhetoric and motivations of what we would traditionally view as terrorism. if you're saying that

you should murder the home secretary in a politically targeted assassination, i mean, that to me is the dictionary definition of terrorism. >> so many people and i do always have to add this caveat, because i know people clip everything up . so just to be everything up. so just to be absolutely clear, i don't think there's any justification or excuse or anything for people setting fire to hotels with people in it , setting fire to hotels with people in it, you setting fire to hotels with people in it , you know, people in it, you know, attacking places of worship , attacking places of worship, police people and all the rest of it. i think that is categorically, unequivocally wrong. okay. i also have a question . if you're a member of question. if you're a member of society who has the view that actually you want controlled immigration into this country and now in the here and now as well, you definitely want these boats to stop. so you will have voted, for this in multiple general elections. you would have voted for those kind of policies in the brexit referendum and so on and so forth. and actually, what's been delivered to you is the exact opposite from what your democratically requesting of your leaders, maybe at the last

election, some people will have decided, you know what? i'm not going to politically engage some people will have chosen to go for reform because of their policies. those people then are being smeared as far right neo—nazis, fascists and so on. and so forth. how do people get that message across and get it listened to and get it respected and crucially, get it acted on that controlled immigration is the policy that they require in this country and the stopping of the boats. likewise, how do you do it? >> so the tories just got 24% of the general election precisely for the reason you've just said. really, they were punished for failing to live up to the pronouncements that they'd made all the way back to david cameron in 2010, reducing immigration to tens of thousands. we get net immigration under priti patel of 1.3 million over two years. extraordinary, really. let me couch this in. what it would look like if the if the shoe was on the other foot, if you had a left wing electorate and you

repeatedly had a labour government voted into office and they were promising public ownership, they were saying, we're going to bring rail, mail, water, energy into public ownership. and what they did instead for 14 years was just to privatise stuff that would be really bad. that would be an inqu really bad. that would be an insult to democracy, that would undermine the legitimacy of our system. but i don't think any of your viewers or listeners would say that therefore means that all those left wing people who kept on voting for a labour party to bring things into pubuc party to bring things into public ownership, that didn't happen, therefore, and i know you're not saying this, but i'm just trying to clarify how silly that rationale is . therefore, that rationale is. therefore, they can go and i don't know , they can go and i don't know, set fire to the houses of ceos. that's the equivalent situation, isn't it? >> because the failure is the failure avoiding my point, because i categorically said at the outset, none of those criminal activities are justified or excused. i've said, let me make that clear. so, so what i'm saying is, so we all agree you can't go around setting fire to things, yet we agree it's wrong. you shouldn't do it. and all the rest of it. yeah, i'm asking you then so you can't do those things. that is

wrong. everyone agrees that's wrong. everyone agrees that's wrong. you can't get the policy changed democratically because we all agree. oh, hang on a minute. >> you're saying. you're saying that you quickly answer this, peter, because i know people are itching to come back to this. >> first of all, you can't legally protest. i might not agree with tommy robinson, but if they want to lawfully assemble and make a point politically, i believe in free speech in doing that. i know that happened, and we talked about that last week. right. they went on a protest. i don't think it should be prohibited. i'm just saying that should be obviously open to people. and then ultimately change is going to come about through the political system and it's going to take a long time. >> it's going the opposite direction. if you are a political, political action is hard. >> you can't just say, i want this and vote for somebody who comes along and says without any evidence, he knows what he's doing, that he will he will do it for you. i want this and then expect to get it at the next election until actually until the late 1970s, in this country, there were there were political parties which had very, very large memberships. and those memberships had had the had the ability to actually influence the direction of the parties,

which they supported. the political parties now have been completely hollowed out. they don't have this at all. and part of that is because people are not politically engaged anymore. you can't just jump from saying, well, i voted for policy x, i went down to the polling station and i made my mark on a piece of paper and put it in the slot, and it didn't happen. and therefore, therefore i've exhausted all the possibilities of democracy. you have to recognise if you want something to happen in a democracy, you have to keep on working for it. you have to become politically engagedin you have to become politically engaged in a civilised and active fashion. people don't do that. and because of this huge gap that's opened up between between people and government, which the political parties have to say done very little to close. and because the political parties we have don't, in fact represent the divisions in the country , it doesn't happen. and country, it doesn't happen. and one of the reasons why i've been calling for so long for the for a change in the political parties in this country is in an attempt to achieve that . but attempt to achieve that. but thatis attempt to achieve that. but that is that is what you have to

understand that politics is, is a long, slow business. you don't get what you want the day after you ask for it. >> i know , but i again, i think >> i know, but i again, i think this is all hypothetically really interesting stuff, but many people at home will sit there and say, do you know what? >> i am in a community where they are about to commandeer my local hotel and shove 100 people in there that have been crossing the channel, they will say, we've voted 2010, 2015, 2017, 2019 brexit referendum. >> what else did they do apart from? what else did they do apart from vote? >> well, they will say it's not enough. it's not it's not enough. it's not it's not enough. just voting in many cases simply isn't enough. if you care. you care. >> you care. >> if you care seriously about it, you have to do more than vote every five years or something. >> well, yeah. but yeah, i might come back to this. actually, what i'm saying to you is if you're someone who's who's directly impacted by these policies in your community, you hear the stories like that lady that very sadly drowned crossing or was killed crossing the

channel very recently. you hear the stories about people there , the stories about people there, making getting knives out and stopping anyone from trying to assist that person from getting help because they wanted to be here. you hear that story about that little girl? i think she was about seven, getting trampled on by men that had no regard in that boat. and then you sit there and you go, these people are coming to a hotel near me, and it's happening imminently. and all of your suggestions and ideas, they're really fascinating. and i know that they're rooted in goodwill, but i just don't think it's practical for people whose lives have been. >> then then then finish your job. then finish your. >> then finish your argument. what do you think they should do? >> well, i might come back to that after the break. why not? let's it. let's revisit this after the break in

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till seven. peter hitchens and aaron bastani remain alongside me. i'm trying

to get to the bottom of an issue.i to get to the bottom of an issue. i do like to go off on random tangents on my program, as regular viewers will have noticed, and i'm asking the question, if you're somebody who lives in an area where, for example, a hotel, is now being passed over for use by for the asylum system, and you're opposed to that because if you're in favour of that, great high five. but if you're opposed to that for a variety of different reasons, how do you make your voice heard? and we've gone through this democratically. people have voted repeatedly for controlled immigration and got exactly the opposite, brexit referendum controlling immigration, exactly the opposite . we all the opposite. we all collectively agree you cannot. we know what you can't do. you can't go around setting fire to hotels and being violent and all the rest of it. we all collectively agree that is wrong. and i'm asking the question so if you're in that camp, what do you do? and you've asked me, michelle, what's your answer? and i don't have one. >> i'm genuine. you don't you don't have one. >> and i go back to my original

answer. you have to work for the political objective that you want. and that's a long term it absolutely it absolutely there is it is a long term answer. it's the only way to do it. and it's the only way to do it. and itook it's the only way to do it. and i took on myself to call for a bafic i took on myself to call for a basic reform many, many years ago . and the response i got from ago. and the response i got from the people who are now saying all things such as you say or who are calling these events riots and taking all kinds of other views, which i strongly disagree with. the response i got when i said, look , we really got when i said, look, we really needed to get rid of the conservative party in the year 2010, which was the point when it could have been done, was i received nothing but abuse and worse than abuse from from. i lost friends, people stopped to talking me. everything i said was was denounced. i couldn't even get a hearing in most cases. and now an awful lot of people say you were right or other people say, well, why don't you carry on saying at the last election, well, it's too late by then. but the fact was

there was there was a time between 2003 and 2010 when people in this country wanted this sort of thing to be reformed, had an opportunity to reformed, had an opportunity to reform the political system in this country. all kinds of idiots say what we want is proportional representation, which would achieve worse than nothing for conservative forces in this country or other kinds of nonsense. what we needed was a major new political party to replace the conservative party, and we also needed to not ratify as the principle second party of the country, a party which is more or less identical to new laboun more or less identical to new labour. but in the 2010 election, people did ratify david cameron's party, and this to led the catastrophe, in my view, and i still view it as one of the of the eu referendum in which we created a permanent constitutional crisis and, and had a ridiculous position where we had a parliament which didn't believe in the main policy it had to implement. so no surprise then that when they came to implement it, they messed it up as they have done. so there's people would not look in the face the thing they needed to do, which was the necessity of individual political action, where you live, creating a

political movement which represents in a civilised fashion the things you think it's no good saying, well, i've shouted , i voted four times in shouted, i voted four times in 20 years and nothing's happened. of course nothing's happened. why would it happen? the forces which prevented it from happening, which you could have done something to to, dismantle, have still sitting there because you wouldn't do anything to change them. a political action that when new labour came to power in 1997 and revolutionised the country, those people have been working for 15 hard years. i loathe everything they did, but my goodness, they'd done the preparation for what they were going to do. they had a detailed political programme and a working political movement to implement it, and they achieved it . now, on the so—called right it. now, on the so—called right in this country, there's been nothing of the kind. and to complain now or will, no one's done anything we ask. well, how hard did you ask? >> well, i mean, i'm going to bnng >> well, i mean, i'm going to bring you in after the break and you can respond to some of this. glenda, you're one of my viewers. you've said, well, what about, a general strike? is that

about, a general strike? is that a way of getting our voice heard? by whom issue? well, he's saying by whom. aaron, i think. was that a snicker at that? >> no, i like, look, i'm. >> i'm on the left. i like strikes. >> well, there you go. that's glenda. i'm asking, you know, because one of my concerns about all of this, if you're someone that celebrates all of these boat crossings and all the rest of it, then that's really great for you, there are different voices in this conversation, and i worry that people on the other side of the argument who, let's face it, are more often than not, the people that actually live in the communities that are having this done to them, their voices are getting, more and more and more silenced as the days go on. and i'm asking a question, if you're in this situation where your community is being changed in this way and it's not what you want, how do you make your voice heard in a peaceful, law abiding way? have you got an answer to that ? aaron you got an answer to that? aaron bastani can respond in hard work dunng bastani can respond in hard work during the break. he says, hard work. tell me what you think.

in

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till seven. peter hitchens, aaron bastani remain alongside me. i'm asking you a question and you know what i even feel like in this day and age, it's perhaps a controversial question. one of my viewers has said, i'd love to tell you my suggestion, but i don't want to end up in prison. michel, i hear you, look, one of my viewers has said, can you tell peter, who keeps saying that we have to get more politically involved? he says he works very long hours and simply doesn't have the time to start setting up a political movement. this general strike thing keeps coming up. aaron, what's your thoughts? >> well, people in far harder situations than any of us or indeed any of your viewers or listeners have gotten involved in political action, if you look at the labour party, of course,

they basically achieved everything they wanted to do in 1945. i mean, it's extraordinary, actually, and it was the dream of that political movement for half a century. and they did it. it took a lot of time, and it took a lot of sweat, we've got a recent example of this, by the way. brexit. we had people for 20 years campaigning. you know, they started a whole new political party. it came first in a nationwide election to get brexit done. and it's interesting, isn't it? the major democratic shift which actually happensin democratic shift which actually happens in this country happens in spite of not because of the conservative party. >> yeah, but hold on though, because you had your brexit referendum and then we spent god knows how many months and years with people trying to overturn that. >> well, quite because the policy had to be implemented by the conservative party. as peter said, it was dead on arrival. really what i would say as well is, look, if you care about the policy of dispersal, which is what we're talking about here, you have very small places, very homogenous, settled communities. all of a sudden you have, you know, all these people landed here. and i can understand why that upsets people. that's a policy that was implemented by

new labour. it's not supported by any progressives. i know nobody thinks it's sensible. if you're going to have people's asylum applications being processed, then they should be near communities, similar to their own. so, for instance, if you have people from somalia, eritrea, there are large communities of somalis and eritreans already in the uk. you don't need to dump 500 of them in rural dorset or wiltshire. it's a crazy policy. and by the way, it's not just people on the right that think that. so what i would say to people who are upset about this stuff and you've just basically set up this picture of somebody in that situation, you need to build broad coalitions of people who you don't necessarily agree with on everything, but on this particular policy, of course, you can make, you can make the, the political mood music . and the political mood music. and look, that's going to take probably a different political party outside the conservatives. and it's going to take time and it's going to take effort. but that's how change happens. if it was as simple as just rioting and smashing things up, then, you know, then a lot of things would have changed. >> and for the record, again, i do feel like i need to repeat

myself. i know, i know, nobody is condoning nor suggesting. in fact, i would do the exact opposite, nobody should be going out and setting fire to anything , out and setting fire to anything, never mind hotels with people in them. that is absolutely disgusting, but i can just. i can even feel now, aaron, that we're having this conversation and i can even feel now that there will be some people that think it's wrong to even be having this conversation, because they'll be saying, oh, you know, you're dehumanising people, michelle, or you're making out that all of these people crossing the channel are criminals and so on and so forth. they'll they'll shout accusations of racism, neo— nazism accusations of racism, neo—nazism , fascism, you name neo—nazism, fascism, you name it, whatever isms they want to throw the way because they're desperately trying to stop these conversations. so for the record, no, i am not suggesting that everyone that crosses the channelis that everyone that crosses the channel is a raving criminal. absolutely not. i'm sure that there's some very decent people among them. what i'm saying is that if there are, if you are somebody that's in a situation where this is essentially happening in your town and that

you're not comfortable with it, and people will be uncomfortable with it for a variety of reasons. i've just explained some of the recent, situations that you've had where you've had men trampling on. i think it was a seven year old girl. you've seen increased hostility in france when they're trying to stop these crossings. there was that, where that lady died very recently. and apparently, to according reports from people on that boat, knives were drawn to try and stop that lady receiving help. she unfortunately died. people will then sit there going, well, i'm uncomfortable from a safety perspective in having 100 of people who are acting in that way alongside my neighbourhood. and again, i think that that is a reasonable concern to understand, and i'm just not sure that anyone's got the answers to how do you peacefully, lawfully make your voice heard? >> can i quickly say one thing before peter maybe finishes up? go on. you've got, for instance, look at, recently, the starbucks ceo has literally had to resign because starbucks is doing so

poorly because of boycotts related to their perceived position on israel—palestine. jonathan ashworth is now parading through the various tv studios of this country because he lost his parliamentary seat, laboun he lost his parliamentary seat, labour, as a result of political pressure , have shifted on unrwa, pressure, have shifted on unrwa, the icc and their position on israel in several ways because of democratically leveraged political pressure. it works. it works. >> well , let works. >> well, let me ask you a question. you can ponder this one whilst you're having your tea tonight or something . all of tea tonight or something. all of these kind of goings on in society at the moment, do they make you more or less likely to vote next time? because i wonder if there's many of you that didn't vote that perhaps next time will be compelled to do so. you can tell me your thoughts overnight? time flies, doesn't it? look, aaron bastani, peter hitchens, thank you very much for your company. and thank you to each and every one of you at home. you're very welcome, don't go anywhere, though, because up next, it's the farage show. but i'll see you tomorrow night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar, sponsors of weather on gb

news . news. >> good evening. welcome to your latest gb news. weather update brought to you from the met office. tomorrow is looking pretty wet across northern areas across the south though it should stay mostly dry. but it's going to be a breezier day than today. that's because low pressure is moving in from the north and west overnight tonight, bringing with it a weather front that's going to stick around for a few days , stick around for a few days, particularly across the north—west. moving into the south—east later. so through this evening, the cloud will eventually clear the far south and east, leaving a dry and fine night for many areas of england and wales. but that wet weather will spread across northern ireland, much of scotland and the temperatures here will pick up into the mid teens overnight. so certainly a much milder night for these areas compared to last night. a fresher night though, to come for many areas of england and parts of wales, and it will be a fairly bright start to the day, more in the way of sunshine to come for southern areas of england first thing tomorrow. across the west, though, where we're closer to that weather front, we could see

some rain, particularly across parts of wales, but the heaviest rain through thursday, particularly in the morning, is going to be across western areas of scotland, moving into northwestern england. some outbreaks of rain also across eastern areas of scotland, but the far north and west of scotland already getting into that clearer weather as that weather front does clear to the south and east, or move to the south and east, or move to the south and east through thursday, pushing into wales, bringing some more heavier rain for wales through thursday afternoon. as i said, many southern areas of england should stay dry through much of the day. central areas too, but there is going to be more of a breeze around tomorrow. despite that breeze. temperatures still climbing towards the mid 20s but a much fresher feel arriving into the north—west now that rain will push into the south and east through thursday night, could unger through thursday night, could linger across the far south through friday morning, but once it clears away a day of sunny spells and fairly light winds as well on friday. so it will be feeling much warmer and there's more of that to come for the weekend. sunny skies for most of us.sunny weekend. sunny skies for most of us. sunny spells at least temperatures around the high

teens and the low 20s by. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather

gb news. >> a very, very good evening to you . i'm >> a very, very good evening to you. i'm martin >> a very, very good evening to you . i'm martin daubney. >> a very, very good evening to you. i'm martin daubney. i'm standing in for the big man, nigel farage. now, do we have a two tier justice system and is two tierjustice system and is mel stride right when he says that the riots showed that white working class boys and men were distanced from society? and as new figures show, that almost 9.5 million brits are neither in work nor looking for a job. is britain work shy? ahead of a—level results day tomorrow will also be looking at the value of university and how that might be playing a part in the employment crisis. plus,

soldiers who fought alongside