gb news. >> a very, very good evening to you . i'm >> a very, very good evening to you. i'm martin >> a very, very good evening to you . i'm martin daubney. >> a very, very good evening to you. i'm martin daubney. i'm standing in for the big man, nigel farage. now, do we have a two tier justice system and is two tierjustice system and is mel stride right when he says that the riots showed that white working class boys and men were distanced from society? and as new figures show, that almost 9.5 million brits are neither in work nor looking for a job. is britain work shy? ahead of a—level results day tomorrow will also be looking at the value of university and how that might be playing a part in the employment crisis. plus,

soldiers who fought alongside the british army in afghanistan are now being turned away from army recruitment centres, where britain's army in decline. can we afford to be turning away these recruits? i'll be speaking to one of these brave soldiers shortly. all of that after your latest news headlines with tatyana sanchez . tatyana sanchez. >> martin, thank you and good evening. the top stories while reform ukip leader nigel farage has no future in the conservative party, no matter who replaces rishi sunak as leader. that's according to tory leadership candidate mel stride. mr stride today confirmed that he wouldn't allow him to sit on the conservative benches in the commons. it means that all of the six candidates to replace rishi sunak as leader have declined to work closely with mr farage. the position is in contrast to sunak, who twice told gb news last year that farage could join the party, saying it was a broad church . saying it was a broad church. breaking news this hour train

drivers are to vote on a new offer aimed at ending their long running pay dispute that has been announced by the aslef union. aslef said the offer was made in talks at the department for transport, which started after labour won the general election following months of stalemate under the conservative party. the offer is for 5% for 2019 to 2022, 4.75% for 2022 to 2024, and a further 4.5% for this year and next. that is according to aslef. the drivers are being recommended to accept the offer, which would end the long the long two year dispute dunng long the long two year dispute during which they have taken 18 days of strike action, as well as refusing to work non—contractual overtime . in non—contractual overtime. in other news, the australian department of foreign affairs has confirmed an 11 year old girl stabbed in leicester square is an australian tourist. australian consulate officials in london are offering support

to the girl's family. it's also been reported that the victim, who suffered eight stab wounds to the face, neck and upper body, will likely require plastic surgery . a woman has plastic surgery. a woman has been jailed for admitting to sending a threatening message on facebook in the wake of the recent rise in disorder across the uk. 53 year old julie sweeney sent the following facebook message on the 3rd of august. she said don't protect the mosques, blow the mosque up with the adults in it. a judge has encouraged prosecutors to consider charging offenders who played central roles in the recent disorder, in parts of the country, a charge that carries a maximum sentence of ten years. violent attacks against women on british railways have more than doubled since 2021. new data shows the number of crimes against women and girls rose by 50%, and the number of sexual offences jumped up by 10%. unacceptable behaviour such as touching , upskirting or indecent

touching, upskirting or indecent exposure is being experienced by women more than ever, with 51% of female victims stating that other rail passengers intervened to try to help. safeguarding minister jess phillips earlier said violence against women and girls is a national emergency , girls is a national emergency, and ukraine's top commander says 100 russian prisoners of war have been captured in the kursk region. this after ukraine launched a surprise offensive that president zelenskyy has admitted was easy and met with little resistance. it comes as the russian city of belgorod has declared a state of emergency amid daily ukrainian shelling that the governor says is destroying homes and killing civilians . and those are the civilians. and those are the latest gb news headlines. for now, i'm tatiana sanchez. more from me in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts .

slash alerts. >> thank you tatiana. now there's been a lot of conversation discussion about whether we have a two tier policing system in the uk, but we also need to look at whether we also need to look at whether we have a two tier justice system. david spring, a 61 year old retired train driver, was jailed for 18 months for making threatening gestures to police and chanting who the f is allah? dufing and chanting who the f is allah? during an anti—immigration protest on whitehall on the 31st of july, one that i was at and was momentarily arrested myself at that as a journalist now crude as such, a slogan may be, it is not an illegal thing to say , and there is no suggestion say, and there is no suggestion that mr spring himself was actually violent. nevertheless, the judge chose not to suspend the judge chose not to suspend the sentence and instead sent him straight to jail. but whitehall has seen many crude

statements and actions in recent months. in october last year, a muslim man was filmed screaming god's curse be upon the infidels while waving a jihadist flag around. there was no charge or arrest, let alone a jail sentence for that incident. and in february, another incident that i was attending to, i actually filmed this on your screens now, the genocidal slogan from the river to the sea palestine will be free was projected onto parliament. as you can see there on the tower of westminster, big ben. no charge, no arrest, of westminster, big ben. no charge, no arrest , no of westminster, big ben. no charge, no arrest, no sentence, no drama. that one, it seems , no drama. that one, it seems, was permissible. and there are many, many more incidents like this. now remember the lad who set fire to the cenotaph during the black lives matter riots in june 2020? no jail for him ehhen june 2020? no jail for him either. just a £340 fine. a slap on the wrist . a simple matter of on the wrist. a simple matter of court costs. no porridge for that young man. now, david spnng that young man. now, david

spring was, of course, not the only anti—immigration protester jailed without being actually violent. a judge described gary harkness , 59, as being the least harkness, 59, as being the least involved with rioting of anyone that he had encountered. mr harkness was said to have made lewd gestures and have been heard swearing, but did not hit anyone, throw anything or spit at anyone. yet despite all of that, he was jailed for one yeah that, he was jailed for one year. now compare the case of mr harkness to that of the convoy for palestine from 2021. a group of men drove 200 miles from bradford to a jewish community in north london and yelled, f the jews, f all of them f their mothers , f their daughters! mothers, f their daughters! you've guessed it, all charges were dropped. not a dicky bird. now the jailing of the likes of mr harkness and mr spring also occurin mr harkness and mr spring also occur in a country which is extremely lenient to the likes

of mirza mohammed saeed, who last year pleaded guilty to sexually assaulting seven women but avoided jail and was allowed to attend his daughter's wedding in pakistan. what about yusef? gareth, 21, and ahmed al akbar, 25. asylum seekers who were spared jail and instead given community orders for attacking a man and stealing his rolex watch, now suleman nick hewer in 2014 was convicted of five counts of sexual activity with a child. you've guessed it. he also was spared jail. so we've heard the accusations of two tier policing. but is there also a case for two tier justice? well, that's the topic of tonight's conversation. and joining me now to discuss this in the studio is the barrister jonathan dean kc. and also stephen barrett barrister. so let's start with you, stephen. we've heard there a very

different set of roll calls with very, very different outcomes. do you think on the basis of this evidence, and particularly in events of the recent two weeks, we have a two tiered justice system ? well, so we are justice system? well, so we are entitled to assume that the judges have taken all of the relevant information into account and done their job properly when they have sentenced these individuals. >> and we're not really i don't think we're in a stage where we can criticise an individual judge at the same time. what i think we can say is that in 2011, the last time that there were riots, the court of appeal a little while later did find that the judges in those instances got a bit carried away. and so there is every possibility that that may be happening. i think for your viewers, what is perhaps more important, what is perhaps more interesting and what i consider a constitutional point is what is going on with sentencing in this country. because if you

don't get sent to prison for an offence that lots of people consider serious, like the downloading of paedophilic images and yet you do get sent to prison for things that people don't actually consider that serious. well, then, sentencing has fallen out of alignment with pubuc has fallen out of alignment with public understanding. and i think that that's because sentencing has been really taken out of the public's purview. it is it's a political choice. how you sentence anybody for a crime, you know, whether you think murder is important or not important is your political choice. whether you think rape is more important than murder or less important than murder. these are political choices . but these are political choices. but they to my mind, they used to be they to my mind, they used to be the purview of the people. the people used to be able to say, actually do you know what? we think that's a very serious offence. and do you know what? we don't think that's a very serious offence. and because of the rise of things like the sentencing council, this attempt to put power outside the democratic process, leave it in the hands of experts. i do worry that the political choices are not being made by the people who who are ultimately the arbiters

of democracy. ultimately, the arbiters of politics. and that will inevitably lead to a two tier justice will inevitably lead to a two tierjustice system, because it won't reflect what they what they value and what they care about. >> mr dean. now, most people in the industry, in the profession are horrified at the notion that there could be politicisation of there could be politicisation of the judiciary. there can be different outcomes depending on your beliefs. but nevertheless, when we look at the evidence there, it does at least appear that that's what's happening. what's your take? i think i think the criminal justice system is struggling very, very badly at the moment to keep up with the range of offences and the volume of offences , and it's the volume of offences, and it's very difficult for the police and judges to cope. >> but what i would say is, yes, i do think, i don't think it's two tier. i think it's multiple tier. i think some of the, anti—jewish incidents that you referred to in your introduction and many of the incidents which have led to a maximum upsurge in anti—semitism, are simply not being taken as seriously as

other incidents of violence and crime. and i think that is a real concern, if i may just say, on stevens point with the greatest respect, i don't myself agree that the public ought to be the arbiters of sentencing sentences. credibly complex exercise , and i think it has to exercise, and i think it has to be left to the experts, although i do think, as i've said, that they're struggling under the weight of what's taking place at the moment, doing their best but struggling isn't the point, though, that the judiciary can only judge what's put in front of them. >> and in particular, those two incidents there were. i was handcuffed at the whitehall. protest. it was a enough is enough a patriot protest, if you like. i was released quickly when they found out i was a journalist. it would have been a bad story for them. maybe there was a two tier policing there, and i was the beneficiary of that. but also at the previous one where i was literally imploring police officers to arrest or at least make those men desist from projecting those

images onto big ben men in full face coverings. i was saying to coppers, go and nick those people. they didn't have the slightest inclination. the fact of the matter is , these cases of the matter is, these cases aren't even making the calls because the police aren't feeling the right collars. >> no . and jonathan makes a very >> no. and jonathan makes a very good point that actually it's very likely that the police officers are drowning in the amount of laws that we have. we certainly don't lack for laws on these on these issues. if it's true that we have and we do have a law, i think it's section 29 b of the 1986 act, which makes it to illegal spread hatred towards a religion that has not been equally applied to every religion. it has not been . you religion. it has not been. you know, we have watched instances where jewish people have have been maligned and put in fear and nothing has been done. if we want to fix this, my suggestion is, is that you need to slim down the criminal justice system. you need to return clarity, reduce the number of individual offences, agree a

broad you know, a system that works that doesn't put too much pressure on people and then apply it consistently to everyone. because i'm only ever about the rule of law . i know about the rule of law. i know i'm sometimes pilloried. sometimes, you know, people try and make my position something it isn't. all i want is clear rules known and advance applied consistently without fear or favour to everybody. that's what robert peel said would work. and robert peel said would work. and robert peel said would work. and robert peel was right. and i'm afraid the police have moved away from that. they've always had a bit of discretion and probably in a system you need police officers to have discretion, but that discretion has become politicised. they don't. i don't believe in individual officer uses that discretion on a on an individual basis. i think those officers use that discretion on a political basis. i think the college of policing tells them to. and whether any of this has benefited any of us is deeply unclear. i mean, it's just this division that it causes the inequality, the unequal application of laws is inherently unjust. it will cause tensions and damage to all of

us. we are one community, one nation. and i think we need one set of rules that apply to us all. >> and isn't that the problem here? during times social unrest, we saw it after the 2011 riots in tottenham. sir keir starmer was in charge at that point too. the courts were open 24 hours. there was a clampdown then. there's a clampdown now. but i've been speaking to people who've been arrested. i've been speaking to people who've been the family members of those arrested. they're being told that they should plead guilty, plead guilty to this, because if you plead not guilty, you will be getting a custodial sentence. they've been terrified into taking a guilty verdict that ticks the boxes . it satisfies ticks the boxes. it satisfies the measures of looking like a clampdown, but what's the legacy that's left behind for the pubuc that's left behind for the public looking on on this? they feel that that the law is being politicised and it's being weaponized. >> can i just quote one thing? it's jeremy dean, not jonathan dean. sorry, a small a small matter, can i just if i answer your point in just one moment, could i just say this? i think the point you made earlier about

the point you made earlier about the police and calling for the police to arrest. i don't think the police have a clear understanding of what the law is. there are so many factual scenarios floating around at the moment. i think the vast majority of police officers, especially in london, actually don't have a clue as to whether an offence has been committed or not, for example, from the river to the sea and so on, and so forth. on your wider point, as a lifelong criminal practitioner, all i can say is that i don't believe that any criminal practitioner would encourage anyone to plead guilty to anything, unless they genuinely believe that an offence had been committed, and that's my lifelong experience . however, lifelong experience. however, however, these matters are being politicised. keir starmer is calling everyone involved far right. and what on earth that means? we don't know . right. and what on earth that means? we don't know. i mean, we are facing the most complex situation in the criminal justice process that i can ever remember. and as stephen says, there are many people , there are many people, especially within the jewish community, who feel that they are being left out and are truly ,

are being left out and are truly, truly aggrieved when they see others, you know, receiving long sentences for lesser offending than is applied. so it's unbelievably complex at the moment and difficult to see how it can be resolved. >> alexa, conversation, thank you very much. jeremy dean and stephen barrett. thank you very much. a great start to the show. so still to come as tory leadership hopeful mel stride claims the riots showed white working class boys and men feel distant from society. will be asking does he have a good point? and also what can be done about it

welcome back to farage with me. martin daubney sticking in for the big man now. conservative leadership hopeful mel stride mp has said that the recent riots in the uk show that white

working class men and boys feel distanced from society. mr stride said that more thought is needed to ensure that this demographic has the kind of opportunities that society has, such as job security and home ownership. now, according to the financial times, seven out of the ten most deprived areas in england have experienced rioting in recent weeks. are the two events connected? well, joining me now to discuss this is the academic doctor , lisa mckenzie. academic doctor, lisa mckenzie. welcome to the show, lisa. always a pleasure. i greatly value your opinion on many, many things. let's kick off on this. you are a resident of ashfield. that's lee anderson's patch, a place i know well. i stood as a candidate in the election in 2019. my mum has lived there for 30 years. it's a microcosm of everything we're talking about here. is it fair to say that the opportunity doesn't exist to these demographics? they are left behind. they seem to be

thrown on the scrap heap and as a consequence, their frustrations. they boil over and culminated in the ugly scenes of the past two weeks. are these things connected , things connected, >> i would say they are connected , this is something connected, this is something that i've been researching and writing about for 20 years. the first time i ever spoke about this publicly on, on television was on sky news 15 years ago. so these things have been bubbling up for a long time, and you've got to think about where the sort of place where i live now and where i'm from. sutton in ashfield , nottinghamshire, these ashfield, nottinghamshire, these were places that were once had high skilled, high value work. and these are, you know, the industrial britain that was replicated for working class people all over the country in 40 years. we've gone from working class people that had communities , jobs, able to communities, jobs, able to afford a decent standard of living to now we've got extreme

poverty , lack of social poverty, lack of social mobility. and a real sense that people are. i don't say left behind because left behind sort of says that they couldn't keep up. this is specific policy about being left out. and the people that i'm talking about in the red wall areas, mostly white working class people, were definitely left out. we saw that in brexit as well. >> and you know , lisa, the area >> and you know, lisa, the area around sutton proud coal mining communities of yesteryear. nothing replaced the pits. nothing replaced the pits. nothing ever came to fill that void, that sense of purpose. this is about a sense of purpose. it's about a sense of worth. it's about having a route to a fulfilling life that keeps people happy. and also in parallel to that, the white working class has , particularly working class has, particularly men and boys, are the least likely to attend university. they simply find the debt overwhelming. they're the most likely to fight for their country and the most likely to

commit suicide. we have this terrible collision of a lack of opportunity and no way out, and they don't seem to have many political allies . lisa. and when political allies. lisa. and when they do have a vote like brexit, guess what? the elites try and cancelit. cancel it. >> yeah. and i think brexit, a lot of i think where we are now with this sort of very deep division throughout the country, and particularly in those red wall areas, we saw that in brexit. and it's never really gone away. it's never gone away. we were promised levelling up. it didn't happen, this new new laboun it didn't happen, this new new labour, they've come in, they've got nothing to say to these communities. they've got absolutely nothing . keir starmer absolutely nothing. keir starmer standing in front of a union jack sort of saying something now and again, is meaningless. what we need in these communities is proper levelling up. i mean, you know, the levelling up that is needed in the north of england is something equivalent to the east and west germany levelling up,

in the in the 1990s. that's how sort of disadvantaged and unequal the country is . and i unequal the country is. and i don't think that people who live in the south, who live in the south east, actually understand what's been lost. and until you understand what's been lost, i don't think you can even start to understand what we need to do now . how. >> now. >> doctor lisa mckenzie, you talk such common sense. thank you so much forjoining us. and it's worth pointing out the entire levelling up budget's £4.8 billion is dwarfed by figures we announced on this show yesterday, £6.6 billion last year alone spent on our asylum system. doctor lisa mckenzie, thank you very much for your expert insights as even for your expert insights as ever. now, joining me now in the studio to chew this over is the former labour mp lloyd russell—moyle and the former conservative mp richard drax. richard, may i start with you? we've we've had a whole conversation on the show already about a two tiered judiciary, two tier policing these communities, seven out of ten,

the most disadvantaged in the uk. they were the ones that rioted. interestingly, they were called far right. interestingly, all of them are labour seats. what's going on here? >> you're talking about the white underclass , martin. white underclass, martin. i spent nine years working with the so—called white working class in the army and two years training young guardsmen and all. i can tell you is that after they've been through several months of training, they are men, in this case, men and women, of course, but in my case, mostly men who you'd be proud to serve with and if necessary, die with, and they become the salt of the earth. and what's so sad? it takes so little to turn these men round. what they don't need is benefits. and the social services. what they do need is a bit of tough love, a bit of leadership, an infrastructure to work with, a good schooling. of course, parenting helps, which of course, in many cases are probably non—existent or broken

and in our case, the army replaced that and we turned these men around. as i say, there'd be men you'd be very proud to serve with. i was proud to serve with and unnecessarily die with. and what's so sad is it's so easy to turn them round , it's so easy to turn them round, and we're wasting all this talent in this country. >> laura, could i turn to you for your your thoughts on this? because, you know, i find it heartbreaking. you know , i come heartbreaking. you know, i come from the from one of these communities. and i go back there and i see such a paucity of opportunity. there's a brain drain. people are forced to move away. and when they feel left behind, which they ostensibly do, they swing between the blue rosette, the red rosette, nothing seems to change. and then, particularly when they have foisted upon them so many asylum seekers, because guess what? the house prices are cheap for the precise reasons their social depravity. they have things put upon them that they never voted for. in fact, they voted against time and time again. they get fed up and it bubbles up into trouble. for that. they're called far right and slammed in the jail isn't part of the problem here. they

simply aren't listened to or catered for. in fact, they're called privileged. >> well, i think you're right that the working class has a problem. i don't actually agree that there's a big race element here that you're trying to stir up. >> i think that if you look, it's an observation of facts. >> you know, if you look at the suicide rates at white men and black men , they are both black men, they are both extremely high, much higher than working class men. working class black men, working class white men. working class, black men have much worse opportunities. they're more likely to also get into drugs and violence and etc. so i think actually the interesting thing is less the race bit, but actually the working class bit. and i think on that i totally agree with some of the analysis that we've just heard, and that is that we have forgotten our working class, particularly that 51% that don't go to university. we talked all about university and what is university. we might come to on this later on. you know, kind of university actually is nothing about the academics work that you get. but it is about a training ground to

become a young adult. you have sports clubs, you have air cadets, you have, you know, kind of you have hiking clubs, you have all the things that make someone a person . but what we someone a person. but what we see in the working class is they have no access to any of those things. youth and cadet programs are completely decimated in our country. those programs that gave structure to young people, youth services have completely gone. and it's not of course, middle class people that have suffered because they get university. >> we are going to make this about race because the fact that you're going to. >> but that's not where the facts are. >> i'll tell you some facts and the facts are this white working class boys in britain are the bottom of academia and have been for over 20 years. >> and the next and the next bottom is black working class boys. so why make the distinction? because the they're both at the bottom one and two. >> no, lloyd, let me finish. the outcomes are simply based on what they achieve academically and the white lads are at the bottom and then the black lads are second after them. show me a

single political outreach specifically designed to target them. the neediest. they don't exist. i'll save you the research because the identity politics system we have dictates they're privileged because they're privileged because they're white. they're born male, they're born white. they weren't. >> i'm sorry . i weren't. >> i'm sorry. i look, i'm, i'm a socialist. so of course i would try and bring it back to class rather than race, because that's what i believe in. but i actually think in this country thatis actually think in this country that is the big dividing line. yes, you're right that working white working class boys are at the bottom. black working class boys are second to the bottom. so rather than saying there's a distinction between, i mean, a kind of a percentile on this, let's talk, let's talk, let's, let's, let's talk about the problem here. let's rather than talking about second two tier policing, actually what we see is policing for people who get frustrated and riot , whether frustrated and riot, whether they're the black riots that we've had, you know, kind of race riots that we had in tottenham or in brixton or when i lived in bradford, we had them in bradford. all that we see

more recently, it's not actually an issue of race. it's an issue of disenfranchised, fed up communities that don't have a political means to express themselves . and then other themselves. and then other people come in the far right or other motivation, you know, extremist islam come in and whip up, whip up the frustration. i don't think most of those people are far right, but the far right definitely have whipped it up. who are the far right ? well, the who are the far right? well, the edl do exist. >> they disbanded in in 2013, chasing people around it. >> tommy robinson, people who have whipped it up, you know, everything i've just laid out to you has been there for decades and decades to try and pin it on, on, on individuals now i think is ridiculous. there is a problem. i don't disagree with you, but i think it is a class problem. >> richard, over to you. isn't part of the problem here is that when we saw the black riots in tottenham, there was a clampdown. then a conversation. let's understand why this happened. let's community engage. that hasn't happened. so far. all we've seen is the

jackboot. >> i mean, if you look at the uk generally, in my view , morally generally, in my view, morally we are heading the wrong way and in many ways we're heading the wrong way. and parenthood is seriously being undermined and in some cases doesn't exist. the communities that many, both black and white and the others live in are broken. there are no police on the streets. there are no youth facilities. i mean, all these things are all part of the problem. so far as the white working class is concerned. i think there is a big concern that they do tend to statistically to be at the bottom. that is true. but as i've said, i think a lot more effort could be made. and what's so sad? it's not made by any government to target these people and say there is a future for you. it's not university, and let's face it, 50% that tony blair want to stick through university. many of them are completely wasting their time. i think we're going to discuss this. we are coming up with worthless degrees and a huge debt when they could be in work, in fact. >> and now we have to move on.

thank you, lloyd, and thank you, richard. excellent start to that debate there. up with nearly 10 million brits out

welcome back to farage with me . welcome back to farage with me. martin daubney standing in for the big man now ahead of a—level results day tomorrow, university chiefs have told students to pick degree courses based on their passions rather than the pay their passions rather than the pay potential of future careers. university bosses said students face difficult decisions based on the advice of parents and teachers, but that ultimately youngsters should choose a course that they are passionate about. well, it comes as startling figures from the office of national statistics reveal the extent of worklessness in the uk. around 9.5 million people aged 18 to 65 are neither in work nor seeking employment. and with the government's coming under scrutiny, chancellor rachel reeves said yesterday that if

you can work, you should work . you can work, you should work. but as almost 10 million brits are now classed as economically inactive, is this really the best advice from university chiefs, or do we need to do more to get young people into meaningful work? well, our reporter anna riley , spoke to reporter anna riley, spoke to people in hull and asked them if they thought that going to university really was worth it . university really was worth it. >> yes and no, because when they come out as the jobs for them and they do all that work and all that and all that money as well, what they're going to pay back. so i don't really know. >> i think it depends what you want. if you want to get a career, then i suppose university is the only way in these days because everything to get anything now you need to have some sort of qualification. but as far as getting an education goes, you're better off reading books, better off loving life experience, university and education generally these days, in my opinion, is more indoctrination than anything else. >> if you're well prepared and

you've got, you know, a bit of money, some savings behind you, i think it is worth it. and i think it can be stressful, though. >> yes, of course it is. yeah. more opportunities in life, better job opportunities. and i don't particularly agree with, the financing of it. don't particularly agree with, the financing of it . maybe it the financing of it. maybe it should be less money or even free, but like scotland . free, but like scotland. >> well, joining me now to discuss this , i'm still joined discuss this, i'm still joined in the studio by the former labour mp lloyd russell—moyle and the former conservative mp richard drax. gentlemen, let's start this time with lloyd. so cal surprise ucas, the governing body, want more people to do degrees that are their passion. rishi sunak said stop doing mickey mouse degrees. what's your take? is there such a thing as a pointless degree? >> well, there are some degrees that are, that don't meet the figour that are, that don't meet the rigour and standard and when the assessment comes around, they get quite rightly axed. and that does happen from time to time. but what is a degree for. i think there are two kinds of degrees. there's a very small number of professional degrees

that if you want to go into that career and it's probably going to be the career for you, the rest of your life, you've got to do the degree. medicine is the easiest one. law is probably another one engineering. there are a few that directly or indirectly give you a qualifications to go and work in that sector. the vast majority of degrees have never been like that. physics, you know , general that. physics, you know, general physics is not like that kind of chemistry. on its own is not like that. they are very useful. and in fact, most of our industrial base is based on those people. but it's not a direct degree to job situation. and so in that situation , most and so in that situation, most degrees are about training up that young person to become an adult, an adult that can perform at the high level so that they can they can be set tasks and let off to go and do them and come back with produced pieces of work that you know, that they can meet deadlines, but also that you know that they have some element of socialisation. and that's why universities have

student unions and all those activities. because the key part is about making sure you've got good, articulate, socialised people that can high level. they can manage people, they can coordinate teams of people. and to tell you the truth, it doesn't really matter what you're studying, because what you're studying, because what you're studying, because what you're studying is learning to learn. and what you're studying is an access to a library, which can you can access for numerous numbers of things. now, the problem , i think, is our young problem, i think, is our young people have been told they lie. they have been told, you can get a big loan out and you will pay it all back because you will earn the big bucks and that produces a group of people that are frustrated. who started that lie? >> it was your man, tony blair. >> it was your man, tony blair. >> look, i was i was the head of the free education campaign. so, you know, kind of don't don't blame me for that. i think that we should have a different way of funding it. still, maybe a mixed model, maybe a graduate tax, for example. but i do think that we need to relook at the lie that we're telling students going in that if you do go to university, apart from the professional degrees, if you go

to general university, it is not about earning big bucks initially in your career. you'll earn more money if you go and do an apprenticeship. actually, you know, kind of, but it is about life opportunities and growing as a person and learning to how learn, learning how to manage people, learning to be that class of person. but that's the reality. >> but richard drax, is it learning for learning's sake? tony blair said education, education, education. have we not got an oversupply of graduates now? and more to the point, back to the previous conversation. the working classes look at the cost, the debt at the end of it. it terrifies them. they don't go. so actually university reinforces inequality. >> yeah, there is a place for university for people, as lloyd was saying , doctors and so was saying, doctors and so forth. of course they have to go there to get the qualifications and then become doctors and so forth. i think the tony blair started this 50% of young should go. it then became a sort of stigma. if you didn't, i think the schools were then forced to , the schools were then forced to, or students who shouldn't go to university to go for a—levels and go to university when quite

clearly they were not capable of doing that. and my own experience, i joined the army. i would have hated university. i wouldn't have fitted in there at all. and i think there are many people like me who weren't academic, who are now in university, who frankly shouldn't be. i haven't got the stats as to how many go and then leave, but i suspect it's probably quite high and far better life experience. i totally agree with lloyd. some get it at university but others not suited for it would get it in the outside world in a job and i got huge life experience as my life, in my time, as a soldier, and i met many other apprentices, which i think is a hugely beneficial thing to do. we should really push that out and better support it. that is another opportunity for young, who are not suited to university life. >> i think the german system, if you if you ask me, is probably something we should emulate more now in germany , if you were an now in germany, if you were an engineer and went to university, you would struggle to find a job because they say they want their engineers to do an apprenticeship first, and after you've done an apprenticeship, you've done an apprenticeship, you can convert it to a degree.

but actually they want their engineers practical skills. so i do wonder if actually we should be mixing and matching a bit more and saying to people, if you want a degree, that's fine, but there are many pathways of achieving it. >> okay. can we quickly talk about the fact that there are 10 million brits who aren't even seeking employment? the benefits problem is a massive, massive problem. >> the benefits problem is terrible. i mean, it really is appalling. my own view on this, and i don't think lloyd would be very keen on this idea, but i've pushed for national service, not in the armed forces necessarily, but similar to what rishi sunak said , that those who do not work said, that those who do not work and who refuse to work lose their benefits and are told you must go and do x, y or z. a charity, the border force, all the armed forces, if that's indeed what they want to go and do. it is unacceptable to sit on your backside and take benefits from other people who are working . it's just not working. it's just not acceptable. >> i'm afraid we have to leave it there. richard lloyd, we've simply ran out of time. excellent. thank you. now, swiftly moving on, all six

conservative party leadership hopefuls have now said that nigel farage, the leader of reform uk, would not be welcome in the party candidate mel stride told gb news political editor chris hope that farage wants to destroy the conservative party and he wouldn't be allowed to be a member. tom tugendhat, dame priti patel, kemi badenoch, robert jenrick and james cleverly have all previously said that farage would not be welcome. well, thank you to my panel welcome. well, thank you to my panel. up next, the british army are facing a serious recruitment crisis. yet highly trained afghan soldiers who previously trained with british forces or being blocked from joining. i'll being blocked from joining. i'll be talking about this with jamal barrack, who has worked closely with afghan forces in the past

and welcome back now. afghan

soldiers are being blocked from joining the british army for five years. despite the current recruitment crisis in our armed forces. the eligibility rules mean that elite afghan troops who train with the uk's special forces are now left either unemployed or working as cleaners, and even takeaway delivery drivers. now the mod is facing pressure to change those rules to try and ease issues with that lack of personnel. and joining me now to discuss this is one of those soldiers, jamal barrack, who worked alongside the british army from 2002 to 2016, in afghanistan. jamal, welcome to the show. tell me why you think this system is unfair. >> thank you very much for having me. well, since 2021, after the taliban took control of the afghanistan and the uk government has managed to get out some afghan 444 and 333 unit soldiers. i mean, these are the

people they have worked very closely and shoulder to shoulder with, with the british armed forces in afghanistan and conducting the operations against the taliban and, and the frontline and these people are settled down in the uk now. and the only problem they are facing now is that, you know , because now is that, you know, because of their immigration status, they cannot join the british armed forces and they've been told to wait for five years. >> so do you think that this is prejudice, or are they merely following security protocol ? following security protocol? >> well, i think it is. you know, it's a government responsibility to change this criteria. the policy to allow those people, i mean, you know , those people, i mean, you know, as an afghan interpreter, worked for many years on the front line, you know, with the afghan forces and these people, you know, i think it's a significant important for for, the british government to take a benefit of these people, you know, allow

them to join the british government and, you know, as we know, there's a massive threats around the world at the moment. so, you know, i've been talking from from the last few few days to the more senior, afghan soldiers. you know, and the only concern they have is that they have to wait for five years. >> okay. thanks for your expert insight there. and thanks for your service. jamal barrack, thank you very much for joining us. and i'm now joined in the studio, still joined by the former army captain and the former army captain and the former conservative mp, richard drax. richard, you'd have been listening with intent there to jamal. i'll ask you that same question i asked him. is this prejudice or is there is it protocol? is there actually a very real security risk here, >> you'd have to ask the mod directly to get probably the most accurate answer, but i suspect there is a security element to this because regrettably, there were incidents very few where afghan soldiers who were working with our forces , and i cannot praise our forces, and i cannot praise those who did. most of them

incredibly brave and facing all kinds of terrible threats. and their families still are. there were incidents where they turned on our soldiers. now, i suspect what the emoji wants is those very brave men, in most cases, who've come back to this country to settle here, spend five years here and then apply. i'm sure the media is looking at this closely and this debate is now live. so i'm sure up there they will be looking at it. but i'm pretty certain this is not i'm certain it's not prejudice. i would suggest i would agree with you that this is a protocol and a security element in this, and as i understand it, richard, you have more expertise than i on this . this. >> this five year period is actually routine if you want, if somebody wants to join the services like this, this isn't something that's uniquely appued something that's uniquely applied or applied with prejudice in this instance, it's actually just the protocol to make sure that the background checks can be methodically and thoroughly applied. yeah. >> and it makes sense when you think, you know, what's happened in afghanistan and the various,

as i've said, the various not many, but incidents that happen out there, the british army has to be dead certain that those it recruits are, you know, are going to serve in all and not make a terrible blunder in choosing someone who perhaps in a moment of whatever , and i hope a moment of whatever, and i hope to never happen, turns in our troops. that really would be appalling. so this five year rule is perfectly sensible and as i say, it is not prejudice, it's protocol. >> now, briefly, if we could, we have a recruitment crisis. the army is the smallest size since the napoleonic era. is there in your mind any protocol here for fast tracking these individuals through to the front line in our depleted army? >> well, i wish we could fast track our own. more are leaving than joining. and you were talking about the white working class who are they are. and as i said, i've served with them for nine years. there are probably thousands of people out there who should be joining the army, and the army should be

recruiting them, and that's let's recruit our own. there are plenty of people out there doing nothing. what better life experience for three, four, five, six years? or maybe a lifetime than the white working class boy joining the our armed forces. >> richard drax, thank you for joining us. and thank you for your service to. always a huge admiration for anybody who's got the bottle to stand and fight for their country. now, coming up next, the state of the nation. and i'm joined in the studio by the man at the helm. tom harwood. what's on your menu? >> goodness me. mentioning the ministry of defence. they've released comment this evening just in the last few minutes, saying that british weapons can be used within russia by ukraine. it's quite a development. we'll be discussing that a little bit later in the programme, but leading on worklessness 10 million brits out of work. >> is this contributing towards the immigration crisis we're seeing in the country, and frankly, what can be done to get more brits in work? that benefit bill is soaring and as those benefit bills rise, taxes are going up too. we're going to have the taxpayers alliance on

who have a new report that shows that council tax is three times higher. it's risen by 300% since the turn of the century. pretty extraordinary figures. there could it be going up even further still ? this with further still? this with inheritance tax set to rise in the autumn statement, rachel reeves finding all sorts of taxes to raise despite her promise not to raise taxes on working people. very busy show and we just have time for something else as well. at the end it will be a bit of a surprise. stay tuned. >> worth waiting for. thank you very much tom harwood and again, thank you very much, richard drax. now, state of the nation is up next. i'll be back tomorrow, 3 to 6 pm. on the morton dunbar show. thanks for joining us. it's been a superb evening and enjoy the rest of the evening with this man, tom harwood. first, though, it's time for your weather with annie shuttleworth. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news.

>> good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather update brought to you from the met office. tomorrow is looking pretty wet across northern areas across the south though it should stay mostly dry, but it's going to be a breezier day than today. that's because low pressure is moving in from the north and west overnight tonight, bringing with it a weather front that's going to stick around for a few days, particularly across the north—west. moving into the south—east later. so through this evening, the cloud will eventually clear the far south and east, leaving a dry and fine night for many areas of england and wales. but wet weather will spread across northern ireland, much of scotland and the temperatures here will pick up into the mid teens overnight, so certainly a much milder night for these areas compared to last night. a fresher night though to come for many areas of england and parts of wales and it will be a fairly bright start to the day. more in the way of sunshine to come for southern areas of england first thing tomorrow. across the west, though, where we're closer to that weather front, we could see some rain, particularly across parts of wales, but the heaviest rain

through thursday, particularly in the morning, is going to be across western areas of scotland. moving into northwestern england. some outbreaks of rain also across eastern areas of scotland, but the far north and west of scotland already getting into that clearer weather as that weather front does clear to the south and east, or move to the south and east, or move to the south and east through thursday, pushing into wales, bringing some more heavier rain for wales through thursday afternoon. as i said, many southern areas of england should stay dry through much of the day. central areas too, but there is going to be more of a breeze around tomorrow. despite that breeze. temperatures still climbing towards the mid 20s, but a much fresher feel arriving into the north—west now that rain will push into the south and east through thursday night, could unger through thursday night, could linger across the far south through friday morning, but once it clears away a day of sunny spells and fairly light winds as well on friday, so it will be feeling much warmer. and there's more of that to come for the weekend. sunny skies for most of us.sunny weekend. sunny skies for most of us. sunny spells at least temperatures around the high teens and the low 20s by a

brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> good evening. my name is tom harwood and i'm sitting in for the venerable sir jacob rees—mogg this evening on state of the nation tonight. britain isn't working. a new report shows almost 10 million working age brits are out of work, which has been touted as one of the reasons for the nation's spiralling migration crisis. how do we get more brits back into work? they're taking your money. first school tax now touted higher inheritance tax and shocking new statistics show the nation's council tax bill has not doubled, but tripled since the start of the century. is the government trying to tax us to oblivion? breaking this evening,