ten years for his part in the sunderland disorder. what is this? starmer government trying to tell you? plus, labour was delighted to have secured a pay deal with train drivers this week. so why on earth is the union now gearing up for more strikes? is this what happens when you give in to the trade unions? and the world health organisation has declared mpox a global health emergency? is it just another virus with a fabulous marketing campaign? and it might be the end of the olympics , but the online rows olympics, but the online rows are still rumbling on. boxer imane khelif is suing the likes

of jk rowling and elon musk over cyber bullying harassment, whilst the breakdancer regan has called her treatment devastating and said that she is subject to onune and said that she is subject to online hate . all that in the online hate. all that in the next hour with ben habib and paul embery. don't go anywhere. first though, the latest news headunes first though, the latest news headlines with tatiana sanchez . headlines with tatiana sanchez. >> bev turner. thank you very much and good evening. the top stories irish police are investigating a potential terrorist link to an attack on an army chaplain at a barracks in galway who was stabbed multiple times. he was taken to hospital with serious injuries which are not thought to be life threatening. a teenage boy was arrested by armed police during the incident last night. the victim has been named as chaplain paul murphy, who has released a statement thanking his friends for their support

and assuring everyone that he'll be okay. in other news, victims of the infected blood scandal can receive support scheme payments for life under changes to a multi—billion pound compensation plan. meanwhile, those who were subjected to unethical research will get up to £15,000 extra. that's after the government accepted the majority of recommendations from an independent review into planned compensation for victims. more than 30,000 people who received nhs treatment between the 1970s and early 1990s were infected with contaminated blood. train drivers on lner are to stage a series of strikes, claiming a breakdown in industrial relations and breaking of agreements. hundreds of members of aslef will walk out every saturday between the end of this month and the 9th of november, and also every sunday from the 1st of september to the 10th of november. that is a total of 22 days. the dispute is separate

from the long running row over pay, from the long running row over pay, which is set to be resolved after a new offer this week from the government. border force staff at london heathrow airport are striking for 23 days from the 31st of august. the long running dispute about enforced changes to terms and conditions, including the introduction of inflexible rosters, began in april, the pcs union says around 160 staff have left the border force because of the lack of flexibility, whilst others have been forced to change their working hours and practices . working hours and practices. megan gallagher has resigned as scottish conservative deputy leader. it's amid concerns over the alleged conduct of outgoing party leader douglas ross in relation to the general election. in a statement today on x, miss gallagher said she was deeply troubled by reports in the telegraph that current leader mr ross allegedly asked tory candidate kathleen robertson if he could replace her in july last year, a claim her in july last year, a claim he has denied . mr ross says he he has denied. mr ross says he accepted her resignation with

regret . foreign secretary david regret. foreign secretary david lammy has arrived in jerusalem with his french counterpart to urge a ceasefire in the war in gaza. it's the first joint uk france visit to the region in over a decade, where the ministers are expected to visit the occupied palestinian territories. david lammy appeared optimistic that peace talks are going well . talks are going well. >> i am pleased that the reports out of qatar suggest that the first day of hostage talks has gone well , first day of hostage talks has gone well, and it has been important to listen to ministers here in israel and hear too, from them that they hope that we are on the cusp of a deal. >> the mother of a 13 year old girl who died after having a severe reaction to a costa coffee hot chocolate, says allergen safety training

shouldn't be treated as a tick box exercise. the inquest found a failure to follow the processes in place to discuss allergies . processes in place to discuss allergies. hannah jacobs died within hours of taking just one sip of the drink in february last year , a post—mortem found last year, a post—mortem found hannah died after suffering from a hypersensitive anaphylactic reaction. the statement was read on behalf of hannah's mother this afternoon . she had a known this afternoon. she had a known allergy from a young age for her allergies were and took them very seriously . i have always very seriously. i have always been extremely diligent in managing hannah's allergies, and she has never suffered a serious allergic reaction prior to this incident , allergic reaction prior to this incident, hannah loved allergic reaction prior to this incident , hannah loved life. she incident, hannah loved life. she was a vivacious, caring, affectionate , outspoken and affectionate, outspoken and energetic child with a strong sense of right and wrong. >> hannah had everything to live for and was so full of life and promise . promise. >> and prince harry has appeared to subtly weigh in on the recent riots in the uk, which were partly sparked by online

misinformation . harry said what misinformation. harry said what happens online within a matter of minutes , transfers to the of minutes, transfers to the streets and people are acting on information that isn't true. the couple were officially invited by colombia's vice president francia marquez, who says she was moved by their controversial netflix documentary where they laid bare their troubled relationship with the royal family, leading to their eventual departure as working royals. during a panel talking about online misinformation, prince harry suggested education could help the public spot fake news. >> a lot of people are scared and uncertain , and i think one and uncertain, and i think one of the solutions to that is education and awareness , because education and awareness, because it's becoming it's becoming harder and harder to stem the flow from the source and therefore really it comes down to all of us to be able to spot the true from the fake. >> and those are the latest gb news headlines. for now i'm tatiana sanchez. more from me at seven for the very latest gb

news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code , or go to scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com. >> forward slash alerts . >> forward slash alerts. >> forward slash alerts. >> very good evening. welcome to dewbs& co with me bev turner this evening sitting in for michel. now joining me until seven, my panel, ben habib, former deputy leader of reform uk, and paul embery, trade unionist and author. remember i want to hear from you this evening. gbnews.com forward slash your say ben, before we start , you are an important part start, you are an important part of the reform party in my opinion. and i described you as former deputy leader of reform uk. what is the situation now? there was something on twitter this week about the fact that you're not going to be talking at the conference in september. what is your role and your position there ? i don't i'm position there? i don't i'm sorry i sprung that on you, ben. >> no, that's absolutely fine. i

don't have a role in reform uk. i was, as you rightly point out , i was, as you rightly point out, deputy leader of the party, richard and i richard tice and i spearheaded the party. we took it from 6% in the polls to 16% when nigel came back as leader. in significant part, we created it. we created richard and i spearheaded the movement that created the 4 million votes that we got in the last election. and i'm sure there are many millions more who would have voted for us, but for the fact that they were scared of a starmer government. and, you know, all that narrative about splitting the vote and my obligation and what i feel is critical is that people like me and richard , who people like me and richard, who march these people to the top of the hill now , don't let them the hill now, don't let them down. they've been let down so many times before in the vote for brexit, in the general election, in 2019, when boris promised he'd deliver brexit and then delivered the terrible storm into which the country was delivered by him and his cabinet and what nigel, the leadership

and what nigel, the leadership and whether or not i'm in the leadership is academic. i will be fighting for the protection and promotion of the promises that we've made to those 4.1 million people that voted for us and the many millions more who will support us if we keep those promises. that's what my aim is. so you're still there. >> you're still involved . you're >> you're still involved. you're not going to defect to the tories any time soon. >> defecting to the tories. i think the tory leadership, by the way, is of critical importance to the country. even though i wanted to obliterate the tories, even though there isn't a single tory mp that isn't a single tory mp that isn't tainted by the failure of the last government. we've got to get the right leader for them. they've got 124 mps and my goodness, we don't want a one nafion goodness, we don't want a one nation wet in charge of 124 mps. we need someone close to reform's values. that's what we need. >> you could defect . you could >> you could defect. you could defect to the labour party with me, ben. i'll give you a membership application form. i think i've got one in my bag somewhere, if you'd consider it. >> don't . don't do that, ben.

>> don't. don't do that, ben. don't, don't. please, don't do that. don't. don't break my heart, ben habib, after the show, i'll take him for a pint. >> right. >> right. okay. >> right. okay. we've >> right. okay. we've got >> right. okay. we've got a >> right. okay. we've got a lot to talk about this evening. it's been an extraordinary couple of weeks, hasn't it? a 15 year old schoolboy is the first person to be charged with rioting following nationwide disorder last week. so rioting can carry a maximum term of ten years in jail, which could be double than that for violence disorder. so 1100 people have now been arrested for their part in the riots. nearly 650 have been charged. just. paul, give me give me your reflections on events of the last two weeks. it's sort of to easy forget that all of this was triggered by the stabbing of those three young, innocent, beautiful girls at a taylor swift dance class, and then that started a domino effect, didn't it? which has , i effect, didn't it? which has, i would say, in some way, allowed us to see the true face of who this new prime minister is and

his deeply draconian and authoritarian ambitions to clamp down on any sort of dissenting think in this country. >> i like tough justice, and i have no doubt that some of these characters deserve to be sent to jail for a very long time. what some of them did was monstrous, and we cannot ignore that . and we cannot ignore that. >> if you draw a distinction between what they say and what they do, i do, i do. >> i think if you go and set light to a migrant hotel with women and children inside , it's women and children inside, it's attempted murder and you deserve attempted murder and you deserve a very, very long stretch in prison. so i've got no problem with tough justice. what i have a problem with is selective, tough justice, and i think that what we're seeing play out in our courts at the moment is a little bit performative and a little bit performative and a little bit performative and a little bit political , because we little bit political, because we don't see this tough justice at any other time. we are constantly reading stories of offenders, serious offenders, violent offenders, in some cases being spared jail or being given a suspended sentence under the

conservatives. >> of course, as a 14 year, it's been conservative government, though it's been under every government for many years. >> and we read these stories in the media and we can't understand it. and we get angry at it. we see violent thugs with at it. we see violent thugs with a long litany of previous convictions released once again, community order, a suspended sentence and people get really angry about that because people say, look, if that's what you're doing to your community, if you're a repeat and serious and violent offender, you deserve to be dealt with with the full force of the law quickly, and you should go to prison for a long time. but we know in our hearts, and the evidence shows us that that doesn't really happen. so when you see what we're seeing at the moment with these characters who are being sent to jail for a long time because they've put something on facebook or, you know, because they got , they got a little bit, they got, they got a little bit, you know, robust and aggressive in front of a police line at a riot . you kind of think, well, riot. you kind of think, well, hold on a second. why can't the law? why can't the law be that

efficient and that harsh the whole time? and the two tier thing will stick. maybe not so much now, but when the status quo returns again and in a few weeks time or a few months time, weeks time or a few months time, we start reading stories in the media of people getting suspended sentences and community orders for really serious offences. that's when the two tier thing might then start to stick, i think. >> ben, i'm dying to talk to you about this as well because there's this case is 53 year old. this woman, julie sweeney. she was given a 15 month jail sentence this week. she posted on facebook. i'll tell you what she said. she said , don't she said. she said, don't protect the mosques, blow the mosques up with the adults in it, she admitted she said it in anger because of what she mistakenly thought was the perpetrator of the southport stabbings. having been a muslim and reports of somebody in that area who is a muslim. that evening he was caught with a knife in the area. she deleted it really quickly, knew she'd been stupid, and in response, her husband, david sweeney, has told the telegraph today and she is his full time carer. she was,

he said three police cars turned up. there were three officers. what's that about? it's too big a force. for what it was. it's just crazy. it's a big loss. she's my right arm. it does anger you. it's over the top . anger you. it's over the top. well over the top. it's hard to come to terms with. she got angry on the night we watched a news item with her. it just wound her up because of what had happened to those three girls. and she's gone to prison for 15 months, leaving him at home on his own without her as a carer. i can't make that. make sense, ben. >> i can't make it make sense ehhen >> i can't make it make sense either. and i mean, i completely endorse everything paul said. and but i would add that, this hasn't just been two tier policing. this has been a two tiered criminal justice system. and a completely it's almost straight out of the eu playbook. you know, whenever the eu has a crisis or there's a problem, they grant themselves more power and we've seen keir starmer do it this time, you know, reference this woman and the way she's been treated. he's used it

to absolutely clamp down on what some of us might regard as free speech. now in no way can you endorse someone advocating the burning down of a building. of course , and that is an course, and that is an incitement to violence, which is illegal. but to go in the way that they did, heavily handed arrest this woman after she deleted it. she should have got off with a caution. and the other thing, the other thing that comes to my mind is the infantilizing of the electorate, the notion that people are moved to violence because some 53 year old has published a stupid tweet onune old has published a stupid tweet online is to is to infantilize the electorate and to effectively promote into a position of power that this 53 year old. i mean, i don't know how many followers she had, but i can't imagine many people looked at it. there were about 5000 people who followed her on facebook, but i completely agree with you, because what i was in a group with 5000, in a group with five, in a group of 5000 people, but, paul, this idea

that somehow mild mannered british citizens are watching coronation street and they come across a tweet on their phone and they are so sort of zombified by what they read on the internet, they suddenly get up and go and smashing a police car. >> it it makes no logical sense. we're giving them too much power and no one is in the political class is considering the real reason why some of this has started. >> they think it's all down to elon musk disinformation from foreign states or tommy robinson . foreign states or tommy robinson. and if they draw those conclusions, i think they completely myopic. or maybe they're disingenuous. maybe they know, actually that there are deeper issues and questions in some of these communities, but they just don't want to discuss those issues because they know that they would then have a hell of a lot of work to do to try to solve some of the problems. so, you know, best not to raise those things as problems. and it's why they white working class people are not dupes . class people are not dupes. you're absolutely right. they're

not dupes. you know. they're not idiots. they can't be hoodwinked in that way. the idea that all of these grievances and this resentment that has been burning away in these communities for a long time, you know, we put that to one side, do we? and we say, no, it's because of something that nigel farage said, or it's because of the rhetoric of people like elon musk said. it's insulting to ordinary people, to say that they are that they are that easily misled. >> that's right. and, you know, just to reiterate, there were police officers injured in these riots that particularly makes my blood boil. these these guys and girls are going out there and doing a really, really important job. and the last thing anybody should feel they're allowed to do in this country is to injure a police officer, >> but i mean, on that point, the two manchester chaps at the airport have yet to be charged, and we've had summary judgement against a whole, i think, 300 odd people or something have been arrested and charged in relation to the riots. but the two guys who broke a police officer's , a female police officer's, a female police officer's, a female police officer's nose at manchester airport have yet to be charged.

and you know, that raises questions in the public. why not? >> they gave their own press conference to put their side of the story across. >> go on to say you sort of put the blame earlier or you certainly mentioned keir starmer as if he were responsible. i mean, look, i'm not keir starmer's biggest fan, but i'll come to his defence on this. i think actually we need to look at the judges who are, as i say, at the judges who are, as i say, a lot of them are perfectly justified in terms of the sentences. i've got no problem with many of them, probably most of them, but some of them, i suspect some judges are perhaps enjoying their moment in the spotlight a little bit . i think spotlight a little bit. i think there's probably a bit of a ratchet effect going on where judges are looking at other reports coming in and seeing the really hard line that's being taken by their colleagues and thinking, well, i can't be seen as out of step. i've got to jump on the bandwagon as well, and i've got to impose some tough sentences. i don't think we can necessarily. i'm sure starmer supports a lot of this stuff by the way, but he's only been in for a month and i don't think we can say this is all down to no. i mean, i have to. keir starmer

i'm telling the judges what i have to say but in the tone. keir starmer, as a democratically elected prime minister, diagnosed the problem himself by getting up and saying this is all far right thuggery. >> i mean, the idea that he could know the political disposition of thousands of people across the united kingdom who've gone rioting is absolutely ludicrous. but he, he, he categorises them as far right because he wanted not to address their genuine complaint. he wanted to rubbish them. he wanted to make it as if they don't have a genuine complaint. and then it seamlessly. he went on to say they will be arrested, they will be charged. there will be draconian punishments handed out, but the judges don't have to go along. no, but they don't. but he absolutely invoked the criminal justice system. >> you're saying he set the tone? >> he set the tone and he's the prime minister and what he should have said. and he could absolutely, justifiably say they will feel the full force of the law. but it's up to the law to dispense justice. it's not up to the prime minister to tell the courts, effectively direct the criminal justice system in how

it should behave. and that's what he was doing, he said. he said these are far right thugs, and they should be taken to task and they should be taken to task and locked up. >> that was we have to also criticise the judges because, oh, absolutely. we have to send the message to the judges. look, you are supposed the judiciary is supposed to be independent from the government, no doubt. and just because a prime minister i mean tory mps and home secretaries have always stood up for years saying we want judges to do this and judges are quite to happy ignore them. it's very easy to say to them. it's very easy to say to the judges, well, actually, you need to exercise your independence in some of these sentences, but there's but i mean, the i can't say unequivocally it's cause and effect. >> but if you look at the timeline, you get a you get the riots, you get the prime minister directing the courts to do what he wants them to do, and then they do it. and to the common man on the clapham omnibus, that doesn't that doesn't stack up. >> well, i think we do also need to say that comments like julie sweeney's, the comments that she made on that facebook group were repugnant. i mean, let's be absolutely of course, of course we do need to. we do need to. >> but would you lock her up for

15 months? >> but is she a threat? >> but is she a threat? >> is she a threat to the public? >> but equally, i think she probably does need to be publicly shamed for those sorts of comments because they were outrageous. but i don't see what's going to be gained by sending. i mean, you know, people say it's incitement. how many people realistically were likely to act on those words? they were crass. they were hyperbolic, they were angry. they were certainly angry. i suspect no one was ever likely to act on them. and the punishment has to be commensurate with the crime. and i'm a near absolutist on this stuff. unless there is genuine incitement to violence where people are likely to act on the words that are being or the statement that's being made . i statement that's being made. i think in a free society, people have got to have the right. i agree, post offence even you know what's happened and i don't know. >> i don't know whether it becomes the arbiter on this. well you know, what's happened in the wake of this is that lots of controversial commentators have stopped posting. >> then even people senior people in reform have gone

silent, have you noticed? >> i've noticed it's got its benefits. >> then ben. >> then ben. >> but you see, this is. >> but you see, this is. >> i haven't gone quiet . >> i haven't gone quiet. >> i haven't gone quiet. >> but it depends. do we want to live in a country where we are quiet because we are frightened? thatis quiet because we are frightened? that is your tyranny of silence right there. when i just saw that kim jong un is having tourists in north korea, and i thought, that's interesting. i thought, that's interesting. i thought, i wonder if he's looked across the uk and gone, well, they're more totalitarian than i am now in the uk, and they've got tourists, so maybe we can have the same thing. i mean, at the tone that has been set in the tone that has been set in the last couple of weeks, it has. i find, deeply, deeply worrying. right. we've got to take a quick break. it's been less than 48 hours since the government hailed a new deal with train drivers. so why is their union now planning more strikes? don't go anywhere. you in a minute.

welcome back. it's dewbs& co

with me. bev turner this evening. sitting in here for michelle. so keeping me company until seven. ben habib of reform uk and paul embery, trade unionist and author. right. i'm so glad you're here, paul, because this does take a little bit of explaining the government's joy at striking a pay government's joy at striking a pay deal with the aslef union and bringing an end to further strike action has been, frankly, very short lived. not only have train drivers at lner now announced a fresh set of strikes, but ministers have been accused of prioritising unions over pensioners and a fresh row could also be brewing, with the rmt union after general secretary mick lynch threatened fresh industrial action if his members do not get the exact same pay deal as aslef. so let's just remind ourselves what transport secretary louise haigh said. just yesterday became transport secretary. >> i said we'd move fast and fix things and that's exactly what we're doing. i'm delighted that we're doing. i'm delighted that we have put forward a three year pay we have put forward a three year pay deal so that drivers across our railways can vote on it, and hopefully bring an end to over

two years of damaging strikes that have cost the taxpayer more than £800 million in lost revenue and hurt the economy even more. the previous government deliberately provoked and prolonged these strikes and hurt passengers and the economy in direct contrast, this labour government will always put passengers first. >> oops , because now they're >> oops, because now they're saying we're not going to accept it, am i right, paul? it's complicated. well, no, they aren't hardly. it's eleanor nana who was saying actually, we we're still striking. >> it's completely separate dispute to the pay deal. >> it is a separate dispute, but completely separate. just explain to us how this funding works , because the shareholders works, because the shareholders of these train companies are making huge hundreds of thousands or millions of pounds of dividends. but we, the government, we the taxpayer are contributing towards the train drivers pay. what? how does it work? it's a bit of a mess. >> we subsidise the railways

hugely, which is an argument to say they should be taken back into public ownership, which is what labour are doing. >> right. >> right. >> well, yeah, i mean they've certainly said that. but we pay huge subsidies to the rail companies and, and that's that for me is the argument for pubuc for me is the argument for public ownership. but the government has effectively taken over negotiations in the aslef dispute from the rail delivery group, which is the membership body of the train operating companies, but receives half its funding from network rail, which is a public body. and because the rail delivery group were unable to strike a deal with aslef. over, over. well, it was two years or whatever it was in the end, wasn't it? the government, the new government said in july, completely correctly , in my opinion, this correctly, in my opinion, this is going nowhere . we are going is going nowhere. we are going to negotiate through the department of transport directly with the aslef trade union, with a view to reaching a settlement, they've they've struck a deal which has to go to the aslef

members now. they will have the final say on it, but they've certainly struck a proposed deal between the two sides, which i think is fair and i think is reasonable. and i think if it's accepted, which i think it will be, we'll end the disruption, we'll end the dispute. and i think that's a good thing . and i think that's a good thing. and i think that's a good thing. and i think if the previous government had been as constructive in its deaungs had been as constructive in its dealings with the union, rather than taking a hostile approach, we would have saved ourselves. i think a whole world of pain. >> but it's not a silver bullet, is it? because, as we've heard, there's going to be more strikes, a separate dispute, though we do need to be clear about that. >> the lner dispute is a completely separate dispute to the pay issue. that's a localised dispute in a particular train operator regarding things like the breaking of roster agreements. drivers. berambing was one of the drivers being contacted out of hours. not enough drivers to be able to crew the trains and so, so on. and that dispute has been brewing for a long time. so we do need to separate those two things. >> okay. they're allowed apparently to restart their

lunch hour if they get a message from their boss. are you aware of this, paul? if they're in the middle of their lunch hour and they get a message from their boss, they're allowed to restart their lunch hour. >> i wouldn't believe i wouldn't believe everything you read in the title. >> that sounds like an eu rule right there, though it sounds slightly barmy. >> but you know, when all these strikes kicked off in the summer of 2022, after we had that massive spike in inflation, i had great sympathy with the pubuc had great sympathy with the public sector. they've been underpaid for literally a decade, and their wages had fallen behind inflation every yean fallen behind inflation every year, year in, year out, in significant part, in my view, because of unbridled , imported because of unbridled, imported cheap labour. but, you know, we went through a period of renegotiations and actually a lot of the private unions settle their disputes very quickly seven at 8% levels of increase. and the private sector was settling their own disputes right across the economy at around 7 or 8%, which was sub the inflation hit , but around 7 or 8%, which was sub the inflation hit, but high enough to keep the wolf from the doon enough to keep the wolf from the door. it was the public sector strikes that were difficult to

bnng strikes that were difficult to bring into line. but the problem i've got with the way the labour party has behaved in terms of settling the junior doctors strike and now aslef, is that it has all the hallmarks of giving in. and if you encourage someone, if you if someone gets the perception that actually when they press you, they will win, they will be encouraged to do it again. and it's the same approach the labour party has used with illegal migration. it's going to fast track the asylum applications effectively. in my view , settling all the all in my view, settling all the all those people in the uk sending a signal to people smugglers and would be illegal migrants, actually , if you make it onto actually, if you make it onto british shores, you will be safe and they've done the same with knives, where they've given an amnesty on knives and said, hand in your knife, we'll get £10. and you know, all the all this signalling is a signalling in the wrong direction. they're almost like this government is striking me as sort of really bad parents. it's really bad

parenting. >> it's really bad parenting. that's exactly what it is. it's like threatening things, but not carrying it out and dishing out justice on the child that's behaving themselves. you might say some of the people who've been caught up in these children caught up in this riot nonsense and then not not coming down hard on this is not an especially generous deal in terms of the train drivers. >> we're talking about 15% over three years. it's a three year deal backdated two years, with the following year to come , 15% the following year to come, 15% over three years. when inflation for that period has been well above that. by the way, i don't think is we're not talking we're not talking astronomical amounts here. we're talking still about a real terms pay cut for those three years. >> we've got the border force. >> we've got the border force. >> i don't think that. i mean, i know there's been a lot of stuff in the right wing press about labour giving in to the unions. this is not actually a particularly generous deal. >> we all know how expensive life is at the moment. right? you go and fill your supermarket

trolley. it is eye—watering. >> we're all suffering. >> we're all suffering. >> it's extraordinary how expensive. >> basic necessities not all of us are suffering. there's quite a few people at the top. >> there are degrees of suffering. you're right. but everybody's feeling it. and so i do have sympathy with the train drivers who say my income has not kept up. i've got huge sympathy. we all have huge sympathy. we all have huge sympathy. i couldn't agree more, but like you say, what? what is the messaging that it gives? because we've got border force are now threatening to strike. that's that's keir starmer's secret weapon. that's the only ace card he's got on illegal migration. >> might might reduce if border force go on strike. >> controversial. but i mean , >> controversial. but i mean, look, people see people see city bonuses. go you know, throughout the pandemic and the cost of living crisis, city bonuses surged and directors pay went up and our corporations were recording record profits. and the banks have made huge , the banks have made huge, unexpected excess profits out of the interest rate rises and the energy companies. >> so why isn't the labor party tackling that? can we talk about that? £700 billion of cash

created in order to save the banks and 5% per annum being paid on it, which wasn't paid until interest rates went up , until interest rates went up, giving the banks windfall profits of 35 billion a year. why isn't the labour party taking that money back? why is it allowing the banks to continue with the left that would go after the big beasts at the head of the snake? >> and it's like this labor party are just so in bed with the corporate entities because the corporate entities because the labour party these days is completely lost. >> i think it's intellectual self—confidence on some of that stuff. it does not see particularly a strong role for government in the economy. it doesn't think the government should be anything more than a bit part player in the labour, the labour party. yeah, well, it's so interventionist, you know, if you compare it in all the wrong places , you compare it the wrong places, you compare it to the post—war consensus and, you know, right up until the late 70s, ben, when, when governments took a very, very active role in the economy in terms of industrial strategy and

making sure that enough homes were built and, you know, demand management in terms of the economy and so on. i think what we've done is we've thanks to thatcher, we've rolled back the frontiers of the state. and i think the labour party is largely bought that ideology and kind of thought, actually, do you know what? there are people better than elected governments who are more equipped and able to make the big decisions. so we'll hand we'll hand things like who was the ultimate cheerleader for that? tony blair i agree, hand in .interest rate policy to the bank of england was completely wrong and undemocratic. handing more and more powers to the eu, handing powers to bankers and business chiefs and say saying you're the experts, you know this stuff. you know, we are not really capable of doing that. we're going to i think that we're still seeing that kind of legacy and taking away scrutiny, taking away political scrutiny . away political scrutiny. >> no one is held to account. you know, the bank of england is not held to account. no one can hold ofcom to account. they can hold ofcom to account. they can hold you to account. no one can

hold you to account. no one can hold them. the electoral commission, the office of budget responsibility, all these quangos have dumbed down our democracy. but the labour party could overnight swell its coffers by £35 billion per annum, and i wish they would by by removing that extra income that the banks get because the banks were rescued . right. banks were rescued. right. >> we've got to move on, fellas. time to take another quick break. i'm going to be looking at your messages as well while we do this break. but coming up, the world health organisation has declared, yeah, you guessed it, another global emergency. this time. mpox. apparently monkeypox didn't really work because you all took the mickey out of it. could this be the next pandemic? you have to stay tuned to find

this is dewbs& co with me. bev turner sitting in for michelle dewberry this evening. ben habib

is still here. i'm paul embry, which is lucky. otherwise it would just be me. but the world health organisation, let's move on, has declared an mpox outbreak as a public health emergency. they have said the emergence of a new clade of mpox, its rapid spread in eastern drc. this is the democratic republic of congo and the reporting of cases in several neighbouring countries are very worrying. on top of outbreaks of other mpox clades in drc and other countries in africa, it's clear that a coordinated international response is needed to stop these outbreaks and save lives, ben, there are few phrases more likely to make my blood run cold than a coordinated, coordinated international response . international response. >> i know, i know exactly what you mean . you mean. >> you mean. >> forgive me for being cynical . >> forgive me for being cynical. sceptical. maybe you would say wise after the pandemic that we went through. yeah. what's going on here is my question . on here is my question. >> well, i mean, at a political

level, a number of things are going on. you know, when i, when l, going on. you know, when i, when i, one of the political things that i think are going, is going on is the following. i looked at that announcement this morning and literally i just rolled my eyes and thought, couldn't care less because we've heard so much. so the frighteners was put on us with covid, like we're all going to, the whole world is going to, the whole world is going to, the whole world is going to implode. and actually the death count in the end was pretty much what people forecast would have happened if we hadn't done any lockdowns, if we hadn't taken any remedial measures, the virus would have played out the way it was going to play out. and i remember borisjohnson and i remember boris johnson likening the fight against covid to our fight in world war ii, saying, you know, they're on the same level. but of course, in world war ii, people gave up their lives to save civil liberty. with the pandemic, we gave up our civil liberties to save our lives . they were save our lives. they were opposite, and i think we again, we talked in the earlier segment about the infantilizing of the electorate. we've got to stop infantilizing people if there's a risk out there. we need to

point that risk out and then it's up to people to take whatever steps they wish to take to protect themselves if they feel they need protection. but we can't be mollycoddling the people of the united kingdom to the nth degree. >> that's radical, dangerous speak. ben habib and i won't have it in my studio. the idea that people should be allowed to make their own decisions. the problem is, paul, that because so much trust in public health authorities particularly, has disappeared after the pandemic, i don't know how we ever get that back. >> no, that's probably true. time will tell how serious this particular outbreak is, but unless it is particularly serious and poses a serious threat to the majority of the population of the human race, let's take britain as an example. i certainly would not be wanting to see mass lockdowns again. i think we've paid an enormous price in all sorts of ways from the previous one.

>> all the inflation that we were talking about was as a result of lockdown. let's not mistake. >> that was certainly i mean, ukraine obviously had an impact as well. >> that was a two bit player by comparison. >> certainly the opening up of the economy after the pandemic was a was a big one. i would have preferred us to take the swedish approach and i think sweden has been. >> did you always feel like that? >> yeah, i think i did. i think if you look at the stuff that i argued and said and wrote at the time, yeah, that i think that broadly was my opinion that actually of course there are vulnerable people in these sorts of situations. and you need to do what you can to throw a shield around those people, the people who are really under serious threat from whatever the condition is, any civilised society would deploy any resources to make sure that its most vulnerable, its sick, its elderly, its infirm are protected. but actually it never quite made sense to me that for a for a disease that didn't affect the vast majority of people in a serious way, i mean , people in a serious way, i mean, in a serious way, it wasn't

going to prove fatal for most people. we decided to quarantine the entire population that never made sense to me. rather than concentrating on the on the vulnerable. and as i say, i think we've i think we've paid an enormous price for that. >> the risk with with mpox as we're now calling it, because you can't call it monkeypox in the pcr, is to eat bushmeat or have unprotected homosexual sex with men with pustules . so with men with pustules. so that's my advice. >> well, i'm not doing either of those two together. >> but i mean , that's an >> but i mean, that's an interesting evening. >> i mean , we this is the thing >> i mean, we this is the thing the british sense of humour particularly is to sort of make light. and it's not it is a serious issue if you are in the democratic republic of congo, but i think it has cost lives. >> that is a manageable risk, i think so, right. >> i think we have to take a quick break now, trying to get that image out of my head, but, yeah, sorry for just that image out of my head, but, yeah, sorry forjust having you yeah, sorry for just having you see, but coming up. still to come, olympians, including a boxer in imane khelif. we've got

the giggles now. and break down some reagan say they've been subject to huge online bullying. and guess what? online hate. that's what they're calling it. more on that

soon. welcome back to dewbs& co with me , bev turner ben habib and me, bev turner ben habib and paul embry's here. we're giggling a bit, but you know what? it's the end of a stressful week, isn't it? it's a friday night, so stick with us. so this again, this is a bit light hearted. the olympic breakdancer ray gun has called the backlash that she's received since competing in paris 2024 devastating. the 36 year old australian has been criticised and also slightly sort of laughed at following her performance in paris. let's remind ourselves. robert performance in paris. let's remind ourselves . robert jenrick

performance in paris. let's remind ourselves. robert jenrick. andrew doyle. mark steyn. >> here we go . what . >> here we go. what. >> here we go. what. >> tire of watching it. celebrities, including fat boy slim have rushed to her defence. meanwhile, boxer imane khelif is suing the likes of elon musk and jk rowling for what she's describing as aggravated cyber harassment. both of these athletes, i use that term, you know, loosely, are basically complaining about the fact that they're getting hate online. paul they're two quite different stories, but they they do have a sort of similar theme about the fact that these are women complaining about things that people are saying about them. yeah. do you see them as different or similar? >> they are very different. the first one is quite comical. >> she doesn't think it is. >> she doesn't think it is. >> no, but it is. i mean, she

was mimicking a kangaroo, i think, at one point. and i mean, i'm not being nasty, but why is breakdancing in the. why not? why? >> it's not anymore. it's not anymore. thank goodness they've dropped it. why not? >> morris dancing and ballroom dancing. maypole. shouldn't they? why shouldn't they have it? and to be fair, look, she had a bash and it didn't turn out great. and i don't think there should be a pile on. i mean, it's probably embarrassing enough for her without millions of people on social media piling in on her and saying, you know, it's shamed the country and embarrassed the country and what have you. i think that probably is a bit unkind, actually, and a bit unnecessary. but the second story, it's not hate, though, is it? >> she's describing it as hate. >> she's describing it as hate. >> it's probably it's probably not hate. you know, everybody describes any criticism these days as hate, don't they? so it's no great surprise the second story is serious because you're effectively had what i think is a i think what many people believe was a biological man, it's certainly in the technical sense, >> well, when you say the technical sense , i think that technical sense, i think that the understanding being and it hasn't been confirmed is that

imane khelif is x, y chromosomes, but may appear genetic or sort of may appear female from the outside but doesn't have ovaries and a womb , etc. >> but in my view, i think most people conclude that that, you know, that person is a biological man and certainly when you when you look at that person and the difference in power , in strength, in ability, power, in strength, in ability, in the ring with the people that he was fighting. yeah, do you, do you call them ? do you call them? >> he do you call them he as opposed to she. >> yeah, i think i do something somebody with, with those x y chromosomes for me is a biological man. i don't think it's unreasonable to, to say that. and, you know, if you were a woman in that ring with that person being smashed about, i think you'd conclude it was probably a man as well. she was raised, apparently. >> ben, as far as i know, here she is now. post—olympics. she was raised as a girl in algeria, certainly the image of her on the shoulders of her trainers , the shoulders of her trainers, her her, you know, personal trainers, her boxing coaches

wearing shorts, being carried aloft , there's a lot of people, aloft, there's a lot of people, muslims online saying if they saw her as a woman, she wouldn't be carried in that way. it would be carried in that way. it would be deemed sort of disrespectful or disrespectful for her as a woman. so they would, they concluded, therefore, they must see her as a man. what do you make of it? >> well, i i'm not as clear cut on this particular case as i might otherwise be. so just to be clear, i don't think a man self—identifying as a woman, even if he has had surgery, becomes a woman. i just don't accept that. and i just disagree with the terminology of a transgender woman because he's still a man. he's a transgender guy, you know, he's a guy who's transgendered, but, but this is different. this is someone who has apparently the xy chromosome, as you say, we're not sure she was. she's born to, i believe, with female genitalia. >> so she the appearance of appearance, i think it's, a sexual was it the dsd? so i need to remember what the terminology

is . distorted to remember what the terminology is. distorted sexual to remember what the terminology is . distorted sexual order, is. distorted sexual order, isn't it? yeah. sexual development . sexual development development. sexual development disorder. thank you. it is a very rare condition, but it is a physical, biological condition. >> and many people are brought up as a girl. if they have that condition and they and they believe themselves to be a girl, and she has competed all her life as a woman and she's lost amateur fights, by the way, she has lost fights. it's not as if she's had a stellar rise to the olympics and just won it. she was disqualified from the world cup because of the because of her. >> the ifa had different rules, didn't they? different rules. >> but i, i have some sympathy for her, for him, her, you know, this is a it's a rare physical condition and it can't be easy to live with it . to live with it. >> and do you think she should be taking elon musk and j.k. rowling to court? because she's going to lose? >> because she's got no case. but you see, what's the case? >> i was talking to a lawyer, actually. and in fact, this will be on neil oliver's show on on sunday evening if you want to

watch it. there a lawyer that was saying she might have under french law. oh, really? because they're very strict about online hate in france more than they are here. >> well, i mean, if such a lawsuit were to prove successful, i think that would be a complete nonsense. the idea that j.k. rowling and elon musk are somehow legally culpable for expressing their views or criticism and find themselves on the wrong side of the law in any country, i think is appalling. >> well, we've come the full circle. we started there, gentlemen, and we will finish it as well. thank you both. it's so good to see you both. right. lee anderson is up next, but here's first of all, your weather. have a lovely weekend . a lovely weekend. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news . news. >> evening. welcome to your latest weather update from the met office here on gb news. the weekend is upon us and for most of us it's going to be a fine

weekend dry for the vast majority with some sunny spells and temperatures about the average for the middle of august 1st. weather fronts that cleared away last night, 1st. weather fronts that cleared away last night , still 1st. weather fronts that cleared away last night, still lingering close across northern france, and another one is approaching the northwest. so here. yes, it isn't going to be sunny all weekend. there will be certainly overnight. plenty of showers and a fairly gusty wind actually across the far north of scotland. further south, most places with clear skies, lighter winds that will allow it to turn quite a bit cooler, quite a bit more comfortable compared to recent warm and humid nights. it does make for a fresh start, but generally a sunny start in the south. there'll be some sunshine across northeastern parts of scotland , but further west and scotland, but further west and further north there will be quite a lot of cloud, a few showers moving through and a fairly gusty wind, so just be prepared for that. if you're going into the mountains of scotland tomorrow. well, quite a significant wind chill. a coolish start too for northern ireland. some cloud the odd shower possible over northwest england, but they shouldn't last too long for the majority across

england and wales. it's a fine, bright, sunny start and many places will hang on to sunny spells throughout the day. yes some cloud will bubble up. it's not going to be one of those crystal clear blue sky days, but some sunny spells throughout. still a few scattered showers over the far north of england at times across scotland, but they should be fairly light. they should be fairly light. they should tend to zip through 1 or 2 of them, maybe in northern ireland, but most of the day certainly dry and across the south, dry and fine in the sunshine. 2320 for most places in the high teens or the low 20s. feeling cooler, though with the breeze. in northern scotland , the breeze. in northern scotland, which is still there on sunday and still providing a few showers for the highlands, the northern isles and the western isles in particular, some may get blown into the northeast, but again, they shouldn't last too long. most places further south dry, fine and sunny and again in the sunny spells temperatures getting into the low to mid 20s. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather

gb news. >> welcome to the andersons real world. i'm lee anderson, reform uk, member of for parliament ashfield. on tonight's show, we've got political consultant suzanne evans, trade unionist andy twelves, public affairs specialist lucy white, actress debbie arnold and top celebrity chef theo michaels. but first, let's go to the . news. let's go to the. news. >> good evening to you. the top

stories irish police are