paymasters already just six weeks in. >> there is no toxic trans debate. >> divisive identity politics in policing is tearing this country apart. >> when is the church of england not the church of england? >> and beep beep, it's the end of the self checkouts. >> emma webb talking about justin welby i can feel my blood pressure already. it's 6 pm. and this is the saturday five. a very warm welcome, my friends, to the saturday five with me, darren grimes. now a—level results came out this week and

i'm thrilled to have benjamin butterworth on the panel. he is, of course, living proof that no matter what you did in school, being gender neutral, woke enough to never need sleep and a labour party activist can still get you on the telly. and then we've got the brain boxes. doctor renee and emma webb , who doctor renee and emma webb, who sadly dash any hope for us. mere mortals but prove you can be smart, stunning and still packed with common sense. and finally, adam cherry adam did a stint working in westminster after bristol university and somehow escaped unscathed and not ending up wetter than an otter's pocket . up wetter than an otter's pocket. surprisingly, he's not somewhere to the left of chairman mao and desperate to join the next special adviser or be a think tank or future mp. unlike someone else on this panel. now, welcome to the world of bananas, adam cherry. now folks, you know the drill. each host outlines their argument about a chosen topic, and then we all pile in

and the fur starts to fly. and of course, we want your views much more important than any of ours. send them and post your comments by visiting gbnews.com/yoursay. don't forget your questions for ask the five. no topic off limits. but folks, before we start tearing each other apart, it's the saturday night news with sophia wenzler. >> darren. thank you. good evening. i'm sophia wenzler with your headlines just after 6:00. priceless artworks, including a van gogh painting have not been damaged and all the public are safe. that's after a fire ripped through the roof of the historic somerset house. london fire brigade said 125 firefighters and 20 fire engines were helping to tackle the blaze in central london. smoke was spotted billowing from the roof of the historic building on the strand just before midday. the venue is now closed and all the events have been cancelled today. the

cause of the fire is still unknown . in scotland, a member unknown. in scotland, a member of the snp has been kicked out of the snp has been kicked out of the snp has been kicked out of the party for comments about the israel—hamas war, described as utterly abhorrent. john mason has been accused of flippantly dismissing the deaths of more than 40,000 palestinians. party officials will now meet to discuss a fixed term period for suspension. greater manchester police have launched a murder investigation after a man who became trapped in a burning building died in hospital . building died in hospital. officers were called to a fire on dunbarton green in wigan early on wednesday morning. it's being treated as a suspected arson attack . police across the arson attack. police across the country are now on high alert today as protests and counter protests take place nationwide. it follows the arrest of 460 people so far linked to violent disorder, earlier this month, with hundreds now facing court. tensions are expected in birmingham, with the group to

stand up racism also taking to the streets . meanwhile, our the streets. meanwhile, our reporter ray addison has been speaking to protesters in dover. and we'll bring you that in the next bulletin. now in ireland, a teenage boy has appeared in court charged over a stabbing outside renmore barracks. army chaplain father paul murphy posted on social media to say he was doing okay after receiving treatment for serious, but non—life threatening injuries. the 16 year . the 16 year. old. dufing the 16 year. old. during a dance class at the end of last month. the killing sparked anti—immigration and counter protests across the uk, in part because of misinformation about the suspect. the government is being warned it will have to increase funding to meet its pledge to end the so—called 8 am.

scramble for gp appointments. the doctors association claims at least £35 more per patient per year is needed to match funding levels from a decade ago. during the election campaign, labour said it would make it easier to book appointments in gaza. it's reported at least 18 people have been killed in an israeli airstrike. hours earlier, president joe biden had claimed he was optimistic a ceasefire deal with hamas was closer than it's ever been. following negotiations with mediators in qatar , joe biden told reporters qatar, joe biden told reporters there are just a couple of issues standing in the way of an agreement which could lead to hostages being freed. >> i'm optimistic. not far from over. >> i'm optimistic. not far from over . just a couple more issues. over. just a couple more issues. i think we've got a shot . i think we've got a shot. >> and anyone travelling to an african country affected by a new strain of m—pox is being urged to get vaccinated. fresh advice has been issued by the european centre for disease prevention and control after the virus emerged in the congo. more

than 500 people have died on the continent so far this year. sweden's recorded its first case while pakistan is trying to establish whether a person there is infected . those are the is infected. those are the latest gb news headlines for now, i'm sophia wenzler more in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . gbnews.com forward slash alerts. >> good evening. it's saturday night, folks, and you're with the saturday five. i'm darren grimes, and i can promise that you're in for a very lively show. we're going to crack on with tonight's first debate. i'm abusing position of the chair as even abusing position of the chair as ever. and i'm going to kick us off now, folks. the riots. right. they may well have fizzled out, but i think it's time we faced the real problem. two tier identity politics is

actually what's ripping britain to shreds. you've got white working class communities, especially in the north, feeling completely abandoned, livelihoods decimated , voices livelihoods decimated, voices ignored. and now they're watching as the state gives preferential treatment to everyone else under the guise of diversity and inclusion. and i ask you, my friends, where does that leave us as a society? probably headed toward the same path we've seen before. white communities demanding their own community leaders to act as brokers with the police, because that's exactly what we saw in birmingham. for mobs of muslim men. >> we knew that there was going to be a large amount of people out on that counter protest. we knew who the vast majority of those people were. we'd had conversations in terms of what that was likely to look like, and so our policing response was commensurate to that intelligence and the information that we'd held with our partners and communities prior to that event. taking place, even given

there were so many of them clearly armed. >> i mean, would you do the same if it was an edl type situation? >> what i would say is that the vast majority of people that attended that protest yesterday did so law abiding, and they did it with the right intentions . it with the right intentions. >> and that was a stark no. wasn't it identity politics leads to fragmentation, to division and competition. to see who can shout, i'm oppressed the loudest, and as long as the state keeps coddling certain groups while coming down on others , that resentment that'll others, that resentment that'll fester. it doesn't end with these riots. we'll be left with a broken society , split right a broken society, split right down racial, religious and cultural lines and have no hope of common citizenship. that flag that represents us all, that won't unite us or hold us together anymore. and i think that my friends , would be that my friends, would be a crying shame . renee are you crying shame. renee are you worried about the same things?

>> yeah, i mean, i'm massively worried about this, and the problem that we now have is in the look. nobody thinks that violence is the answer. we've said this. nobody should be going out rioting and using violence, but we should have the right to protest. and we should be shouted down. if our views don't marry with the narrative of the government or of the diverse communities who want to shout nasty words at us, you know, like far right or transphobic or islamophobic, whatever it is, and all we will achieve as a society in doing that, in shutting down conversation, is making it worse and worse , until once again, the and worse, until once again, the bubble bursts because people can no longer contain their anger. >> now, emma, do you think actually there's a problem here for faith and trust in the police in general? because something like 4 in 10 of the british people think that the british people think that the british police do not act with an even keel. oh, absolutely. >> i mean, you have reams and reams of stories that just show that, you know, even if there are strategic reasons why they've made the decision that

they've made the decision that they've made the decision that they've made about policing a certain protest, what people they've made about policing a certain protest , what people see certain protest, what people see is that they're not treating people in a way that is fair, and fairness is very important in british culture. you see, the charges being dropped against those who called for the rape of jewish daughters and then you see the way that these protests have been policed, you see the same with black lives matter and the anti—lockdown protests being treated completely differently. and the message that sends to the british public is that if you have a favourable cause, then you can get away with breaking the law however you want. but if it's a cause that is not favoured, and if you have people who, for example, feel as if they can't be heard on matters of immigration through the democratic process that is going to build up resentment. and when you hear people talking like this superintendent talking about community leaders, well , about community leaders, well, these are not people who are elected, nor are they people who can be removed by—election because they're not elected in the first place. and so these are people who are self—appointed as community leaders who perhaps have no

legitimacy democratically with the communities that they purport to represent. and so really, the only people that the police strategically should be speaking to as a community leader is the mp, the elected community leader of that constituency. >> i take issue with that word community. and i think there's been very good writing about this recently that we call these these groups communities because it sounds soft and cuddly, but when we get to the other side of the coin, to the white people that are protesting, they are far right protesters. they're not a community. >> yeah. i mean, benjamin, where are you at on what you've just heard common sense. i thought, no, i mean, look, the idea that muslim groups, areas with large muslim groups, areas with large muslim populations are the only ones to have so—called or self—appointed community leaders is completely, completely wrong. >> you know , when there's an >> you know, when there's an incident where there have been, regrettably, many with the jewish community, the board of deputies, which has a democratic structure, i know, or local leaders , other people that they

leaders, other people that they will liaise with. when you've had attacks on on gay people, they will go to people that are organised within the lgbt community. you know, you would have christian community leaders, right? you know, a vicar isn't elected by anybody, but they're an obvious port of call to deal with concerns of a group of, say, a church were attacked. so i think it is wrong to criticise that. and i've spoken extensively about how appalling i think the anti—semitism has been in the last year and the attacks on israel. but i have a problem with the people that are trying to reject that. a lot of muslims in this country are particularly muslim. women feel extremely vulnerable in recent weeks, and i think the police are absolutely right to reach out to them, because imagine how it feels if your mosque had bricks thrown at it or someone tried to burn it down, as has happened recently, you know you are going to be terrified to go about your life. >> but isn't it interesting that a lot of these community leaders that represent the muslim community, no one on the left is pointing out the fact that they all seem to be men. >> yeah, well, indeed. and there is obviously a reason for that.

but adam, i want to bring you in because it strikes me from what benjamin just said, that actually, when it comes to the christian community and all the rest of it, the police aren't saying to them, should we intervene if mobs of men carrying weapons, openly attacking pubs and all these other things, if that happens, ought we intervene? well, the law is the law, right? it ought to be enforced regardless of your race, religion or sexuality or whatever else it might be. >> yeah. it's interesting. do we have two tier policing or is it, is it more a question of having a two tier governing? and actually i'm glad to see people like robert jenrick making a strong stance on this , saying, strong stance on this, saying, really, leadership starts from the top. and benjamin, i'll be interested to see what you think about this. do we need to see more robust language from the likes of keir starmer and the home secretary on this? and, you know, perhaps the police , they know, perhaps the police, they do police without fear or favour. it's actually the layer above that. that is the real problem here. >> i think police in this country are doing a bad job. i think that has far more to do with them being able to mark

their own homework than either their own homework than either the last government or the one of the last month. and a half. they seem to think they are above any criticism. and actually, if there's any degree of two tier policing, i think it's the fact that they're more bothered about how they look in the news cycle than how they look at getting people charged and convicted of serious offences. the two tier is the fact that if a newspaper picks something up and it doesn't go down well, then they'll panic and they'll do something about it. you know, i recently reported a serious crime to cheshire police and they weeks and weeks went by and they couldn't care less. so i spoke to a senior police officer and said, okay, how do i get them? they're not investigating this. and there's someone at present risk. he said, put it on twitter. i put it on twitter. a few hours later. they were investigating it. after months of silence. that is the mistake in the police now. yeah, i think governments should be stricter on that, but i would just point out a friend who's a police officer. i said to him, is there a two tier policing? and he said, well, when i was dealing with the black lives matter protests and the riots that also happened at the same time, most

people there weren't turning up trying to attack the police. but when you've had some of these men that fantasised about tommy robinson, they turn up wanting to attack the police. >> and what about those that turn up at protests in london shouting for jihad turn up at protests in london shouting forjihad and intifada? who the police say, oh, well, you know, that's absolutely fine . you know, that's absolutely fine. get yourself away out on the streets of about allah. you can bet your bottom dollar that they'll be in the slammer. of course, there's two tier policing. i think you ultimately know that. and i think that actually, you know, that it's protecting certain people over basically ethnic and religious lines. and that is wrong that foments the division and actually creates the people that you don't like in society and in politics and actually gives them a stronger base. so i think that's why it needs to be countered. >> i also wonder, benjamin, whether you have equal concerns for women who are not muslim, who are scared to walk amongst communities which have changed beyond their recollection. they've lived there all their lives. are they legitimate in being scared on the streets of london? of course. >> of course. anybody that's in

that situation is right. i mean, as a gay man, i suspect those communities you're thinking about are probably quite. there's an overlap of where the fear would be, but you have to be careful. you know, when there were such serious problems with police and the black community in places like brixton in the in the 80s and the 90s, the answer to that wasn't to say, well, you know, the black people must stop being angry the way of fixing that was to sit down with them, was to listen to them, was to have the avenue into the community. >> i noticed i noticed that benjamin didn't name the community there. i wonder whether you would be so hesitant to name the community if it were, you know, one of the ones that know. >> hang on, let me be very clear. there is a problem with radical islam in this country. and there is a strain of islam thatis and there is a strain of islam that is dangerous, that is a threat to democracy, that is a threat to democracy, that is a threat to democracy, that is a threat to the rights of women and gay people. but i don't accept that trying to scar the whole community with those views is right. >> we're coming back to this topic in the second hour, because we're going to have the insights of kevin hurley, who knows a thing or two about policing in this country to say the least. but we're going to

allow adam to lose his saturday vie virginity podcast and pop his cherry. thanks, guys. yeah, and get right into it, adam. what have you got for us? >> right. let's talk about what labour are doing with unions and pay labour are doing with unions and pay rises, because they've only beenin pay rises, because they've only been in power for six weeks. and it turns out getting around the negotiating table with these unions really means just opening the wallet. what have we seen in the wallet. what have we seen in the last couple of weeks? well, we've seen junior doctors get a massive pay rise in the last few days. we have seen rail workers also get a bumper pay rise without really having to make any compromises on their side. so again, when they talk about getting to the negotiating table, there is no negotiation. they come cap in hand and they get what they want . now why is get what they want. now why is this? i would say partly it's because these unions give so much money to labour. aslef, the union we were going to discuss shortly about the rail strikes. they gave nearly £1 million to labour historically and 400,000 of that. about 320 k actually came in the last four years. do you think that influences them? because i certainly do. and what's going to happen next? we're already seeing it. more

unions understand that what they can get away with, they'll get away with whatever they like now, because labour are so willing to bend over backwards to please them. you'll see that with gps, perhaps with nursing, with gps, perhaps with nursing, with the nurses union, with the border force, it's going to continue. and just wait until october, when rachel reeves stands at the dispatch box and says, oh guys, there's no money left. i'm so sorry. we're simply going to have to raise your taxes. why? because look what they've been spending your money on for the last six months. >> yeah, well, i mean, i couldn't agree more. and i think actually the genie is out of the bottle now, and once you give the day and the danegeld, they ask for more. and more and they just don't stop coming. >> that was actually the in the next, in the next few days, i couldn't disagree more. >> well, of course not. you're lefty. >> but first of all, let's just look the labour party is taking less money from unions as a share of its income than it has in generations. unite the union. britain's largest trade union by far, does not have a leader that supports the labour party. that's a historic shift. the amount of funding it's given the

labour party is down on what it's rating in what, in where. >> so they actually influence all of their, members. obviously, in direct the way they're going to vote and they have a vote within the labour leadership election. >> it's in their dna. >> it's in their dna. >> the trade union party have also been changed, but their delegates get votes that no party conference. but it doesn't mean much these days. but look , mean much these days. but look, well, no it doesn't because they you know, they don't vote on policy or their membership. but look, i have a serious problem with people. right wingers like you, adam, who are attacking wages rising. there are two central problems in our economy. one is stagnant wages, and they've been stagnant since 2000. inflation? yeah, they've been stagnant since. hang on. let me finish my argument. don't cancel me. they've been stagnant since 2008. for the average worker. the other is the fact that we live in a capitalist society. but anybody under 40 is struggling to get any capital and to break the back of those two things, you need to pay people better, and you need to take the grip of boomers off the

throat of our oh goodness, here we go . we go. >> benjamin, you attacked old people. i think he's back on the pension problem. i think you're some kind of sociopath. this is outrageous. honestly, they are serious. i've got a song for you. >> i've got a song. >> i've got a song. >> i'm going to sing. too much money in circulation. leads us directly to inflation. we'll count our blessings if we apply tight control of the money supply. you are allowing the money supply to go absolutely wild so that you can pay off your trade union mates and appease the lot of them whilst they come back and ask for more and more and more. >> and you think about that while you're going to sleep. >> you think you sing your head off until you wake up and make sense. >> benjamin, let's say everything you've just said is completely reasonable. let's start from there. we will. do you not think it would be more reasonable for them to say to the train drivers look of course we're going to give you this 15% pay we're going to give you this 15% pay rise. but what we would like in return is to get some of these archaic working practices. but no, what they said was here's your 15% and it's a no

strings attached deal. you can carry on with all the ridiculous spanish practices that you've had forever that allow you to turn up for half a half an hour, be paid for a day. >> one of one of those practices is, is that if you get interrupted by your manager on your on your lunch break, even if he just says hello, good afternoon to you, then you get to start your work break over from scratch. they're already earning so much more than the average person is earning, and surely you at least you can recognise that labour's reasoning on this, which is that it would cost the economy more if they were to strike more it surely you can recognise that that's like hostage taking that, that, that that reasoning opens up a gold rush of other public sector workers to strike, to cause as much economic damage as possible so that it's less economic damage to just pay them more. no. >> i find it extraordinary that so—called free speech fanatics , so—called free speech fanatics, people like, i suspect, the rest of the table. but certainly you, emma, have such a problem with the most powerful voice that

workers have, which is the voice to unionise striking . isn't free to unionise striking. isn't free speech fundamental part of democracy and having your voice heard? it's powerful. that's what it is . it's not. and i tell what it is. it's not. and i tell you what, i was speaking to some civil servants this week who were telling me that the people on the graduate scheme in the civil service often can't afford to live in london. they can't go to live in london. they can't go to their jobs in whitehall from somewhere nearby because the pay is too bad. >> well, they shouldn't have so many civil servants. >> doctors struggle to afford to live in london, are living in tiny rooms. just. >> were you talking to them in the office, by the way? because apparently only 17% of them go to the office. >> i don't have to live in london. do they live near their office? >> train drivers? >> train drivers? >> okay. hang on, we're going to have to leave that there. but richard says adam is spot on as left. the union got exactly what they wanted with absolutely no productivity improvements whatsoever. and then jeremy says i'd automate the lot of them, including benjamin butterworth. now, i think that is automated already. to be honest, i'm pretty sure it must be an ai bot still to come. tonight, we're going to be discussing how the church of england is dropping the use of a word within its

lexicon, the word being church. but next we'll be discussing sports presenter laura woods, who has revealed that she has received death threats over comments on the olympic boxing genden comments on the olympic boxing gender. so you're with the saturday five live on

gb news. welcome back to the saturday five. thank you very much for your company and for all of your views about tonight's topics in gbnews.com/yoursay john says very simply, ageism. i think you've got a problem, i really do. and anne says , sorry, but do. and anne says, sorry, but butterworth is wrong on so many levels and actually ex—military says, how about performance related pay for train drivers? it would be a massive saving. then apply the same to politicians and civil servants. how about political

commentators? oh god and the nation's purse would be overflowing and well, you go back to a lot of people saying that it's time to automate the trains, and i'm afraid they're losing the public on this, right? that's the problem. if they want the to public continue to support them. i think the blackmail of strikes and this constant demand for these massive inflation busting pay rises, there are many people in society who aren't getting these pay society who aren't getting these pay rises. pensioners certainly aren't. and benjamin, i think you ought to remember one day you ought to remember one day you will be a pensioner. >> i just want to quickly point out the people that have a problem with train drivers pay going up. i never hear them saying that the cap on bankers bonuses shouldn't be lifted, and i think that's where a lot more of our bankers know exactly. >> of course we are. all right. come on, renee, we're going to get to the common sense of doctor fina after that. come on, renee, what have you got for us? >> okay, so this week, the trans activist lobby proved to us that there is actually not a toxic debate around the trans issue. there is just toxic trans

activists who don't want there to be any debate. sports commentator laura woods this week faced death threats to both her and her unborn child for uttering three little words, and those words were great work. ollie. the ollie in question was oliver brown , the telegraph oliver brown, the telegraph journalist who actually wrote a fairly non—controversial piece on the history behind two allegedly x, y boxers. that's male if they are x y in the boxing ring at the olympics, being able to pummel women in the female competition, the ioc, to be fair, did say that the iba boxing association had been derecognised by them so they wouldn't recognise the tests. there's a lot around this that could be said. laura woods is a fairly left wing sports commentator, and after those three little words, she tells us that she got death threats to her wishes that her unborn child

would die, questioned her own genden would die, questioned her own gender. she's pregnant. i think it's fairly clear what she is and she was attacked with words that described her female anatomy and were just basically bullying, violent and disgusting. what we're actually seeing in this debate now is it's possibly the only forum left where men can actually scream violent abuse at women, go scream violent abuse at women, 9° up scream violent abuse at women, go up to women , be in their go up to women, be in their faces and abuse them and push them around. i wonder if actually , although this is actually, although this is cloaked in the be kind mantra, this is the only forum where these young men who are so disillusioned with being called toxic are able to actually demonstrate their toxic masculinity and bully women without any recourse or any repercussions . repercussions. >> renee did we have a tweet or something from that? >> we did have a tweet from laura woods. >> could i see that tweet from laura woods? there we are, well, goodness gracious me, i need some thick glasses for that. but you can see that there's a tweet

there that seems pretty fair enough. >> she detailed everything that she'd been sent, how horrific it had been, just because she said those three words. great work, ollie. >> great work, ollie. so that's the gist of what's going on in this tweet here where she's saying, great work, ollie. and she's been met by a barrage of barrage. yeah, okay. i mean death threats. well benjamin butterworth, where where do we draw the line here? i mean, are people like renee? sort of. is it open season for people with those kinds of views? >> well, it doesn't matter what the topic is or what the forum is or who is involved. you know, threats, aggressive language, death threats is not acceptable , death threats is not acceptable, you know, that that shouldn't be such a complicated thing to say. but on the internet, a lot of people who would say otherwise behave in a way that they wouldn't in the workplace, i think i think that behaviour is much broader than this topic. but what i would say is that i think this has been an attack on a woman, because the algerian boxer has only ever been recognised as a woman, has never

tried to live as anything other than a woman, was born a woman as a female passport, lives as a man outside of boxing. >> that's not true. >> that's not true. >> that's not true. >> that's not true at all. it is. and so , you know, if you are is. and so, you know, if you are to say that everybody should be assessed for their for their sex, then that's one thing. but she has been on the receiving end of an unbelievable amount of abuse when she hasn't broken any rules at any point in the process. and can i just finish quickly to say, can you imagine what it's like to have possibly millions of tweets, pointed at you while you're turning up to work? i think that is a horrific can you imagine what it's like to be a woman in a boxing ring who's worked for your entire life for that accolade at the olympics, to know that you are going to face somebody with the strength of a man who is going to beat you and win, can you imagine that? i think it's crude to put this in the language of, you know, something more like domestic abuse. you know, i don't like boxing. but it is ultimately trying to beat other people up. that's the sport. it's not like being fighting on

the streets. >> let's not rehash the debate of the olympics because we have done that before. but what i'm interested in is getting to the heart of why it's seen as acceptable to attack those sorts of views, because babs has said on our gb news forward slash york , she says xy is male. end york, she says xy is male. end of can't compete against xx now babs for saying that were they to tweet that as laura woods you know a commentator with significant reach, is that is it acceptable? >> thank you babs, because she's right. there is no nuance between whether your x or your xy or whether somebody has hang on, hang on, you've given your little monologue, benjamin. let me have a man can have a vagina. >> let him let him go. >> let him let him go. >> dinah. >> dinah. >> no, that's not what i'm saying. >> because both of those things can happen. >> if you'd let me finish my point, then you might understand what i'm about to say. but you've jumped the gun. so my point was going to be, yes, some people are born into sex, some people are born into sex, some people have certain biological abnormalities, but the exceptions prove the rule. people are either xx or they're xy. and in a situation like this, it is absolutely right.

it's not using the language of domestic abuse, because we are talking about a man hitting a woman. it is boxing after all. and so there really isn't very much nuance there in terms of the xx xy because yes, of course you also do have natural variation within the sexes, but that's within a certain range. and somebody who is born with, hang on, someone who is born as a biological man will have a much greater range when it comes to natural testosterone variation than a woman. and so it doesn't it doesn't matter whether or not that person has certain physical abnormalities in the way that they're there, in the way that they're there, in the way that they're there, in the way that people of your views have spent the last year laughing and mocking and saying, it's not possible for a man to have a cervix because it's not. >> now you're saying the opposite. no, no, now you're saying that is not what i'm saying. and genitals can be completely different. >> that's not what i've said. >> that's not what i've said. >> that's not what i've said. >> that is what you're saying, because that's what's happened. >> no, that is actually not what i've said. >> i'll tell you what's happened

to you. these boxes, and they are attracted to sport because they're very good, because they look like women when they're born. it's very sad. but they actually have internal testes which work just like men's in these cases. and they get the puberty of a man and they get the strength. >> but what they do not have is a cervix. well, they don't have a cervix. well, they don't have a cervix. >> they don't have any functioning female anatomy. >> adam, one of our comments says, i've been wondering why it's okay and acceptable for the far left to be nasty and threatening against people and not the other way around. is there a double standard even onune? >>i onune? >> i don't know. do you guys not think this is just a perennial debate and we're never going to make any progress on this? >> i hope so, i mean, it just strikes me as common sense, right? it's immutable fact. >> yeah, but there's never any common ground achieved on this, is there ever? well, that's because i think we go back to that point. >> no, it's because the trans activist lobby, which is mainly men, i'm not talking about trans people. i'm talking about the activist lobby of vile men who want to shout women down. we see it. we let women speak every time they try and have a public meeting. they have balaclava men screaming in their faces. i'm

sorry, but but to claim that the people that think trans people should be able to use the loo and go to work and be to free live their lives in the same way that anybody else is, to call them balaclava men. >> they can't go to work distortion. what we're talking about, that's not what. >> that's not what renee said. that's literally not what renee said. >> okay, well, we'll leave that one there. but paul says woodsy should have said she's a muslim. there would be arrests everywhere and police kicking in the doors. she doesn't deserve this abuse. i'm very sad for her. now you're with the saturday five live on gb news coming up. we'll be discussing the church of england who are dropping the word church. can you believe it? in favour of relevant and modern sounding descriptions? benjamin butterworth has drafted them himself. you're with the saturday five live on gb news

>> welcome back to the saturday

five. >> i have just had to wrestle emma webb from benjamin butterworth's person, but as always, thank you very much for all of your views about tonight's topics. and don't do that again, emma. it was very naughty. now barbara's written in and barbara says, does benjamin hate women so much that he's happy for women to be hurt by men? there's something missing in his thought process. is that true? >> it's . >> it's. >> it's. >> it's. >> i know , obviously, valerie says. >> why can't the people who threatened laura woods be fast tracked by the police and be looking at two years in prison, like the riot defendants ? would like the riot defendants? would it be because of two tier policing by any chance? and anne sewell says, will the c of e become the m of me, me me me? is it the church of meghan markle, i wonder? and one of our other comments says by s atkinson regarding the church, please read this. as a christian, i try to support my local church as much as possible, but justin welby is an absolute

embarrassment to rebrand the church's new things. yes, new things is like royal mail rebranding for a whole new era of diversity. even henry the eighth remained a traditionalist. his anger was with rome , not theology. he with rome, not theology. he hated being told what to do. these changes coming from the top down, all at a time when our churches need greater donations, will drive traditional christians away. who are the beating heart within church communities and that leads me very nicely on to a woman who is one of those people and who has some very strong words for the archbishop of woke, mr welby, emma webb. take it away. >> i think that the viewers have done my bit for me there. i think it was you, darren, wasn't it? who joked that it would be the mosque of england? maybe that's what's meant by the m of e, but i think that the bishops who are obviously running the shows, the commissars, the apparatchiks of the church of england, should go and do something else. if they don't want to run a church , then they

want to run a church, then they should go and do something else. and that is exactly what they've been doing. so we've seen in the last week that on one of the most important feasts in the christian calendar, the feast of the assumption of mary, they decided to close the church and instead to host yet another silent disco at the centre of anglicanism at canterbury cathedral. and now we have this news that they're also wanting to drop the word church and are in fact increasingly dropping the word church across the country because, as darren already mentioned, they want something more relevant and modern sounding. and so they're going with things like worshipping communities or new things. and i think, you know, we're seeing this across the board, silent discos, in, in various cathedrals. there's one silent disco and worship at all hallows in bow. there's a free mass at saint barnabas, and it seems as if the leadership of the church of england are doing their utmost to change the

church into anything other than a church, and so i think that if they want to run a woke corporate or silent discos or be in the hospitality industry, they should go and do that. so they should go and do that. so the bishop should resign. and most central among them, the archbishop of canterbury, justin welby, has to go . welby, has to go. >> well done emma, can we get that back up again and just explain what this is for our viewers? so for those watching on television, rather that we have the advertisement for one of the churches is that canterbury cathedral? yeah. canterbury cathedral? yeah. canterbury cathedral? yeah. canterbury cathedral website that is. and it's 80s silent disco. they're all boogieing away. and the tweet said, oh, the evensong service is still going ahead on this feast day, wasn't it? it was a feast day. yeah, yeah . and the canterbury yeah, yeah. and the canterbury cathedral, the mother church of the established church in this country, said that service will still be going ahead, but they haven't preparation for a silent disco. and there's that tweet there saying that for our viewers, saying that the church

will indeed be be closed as part of it will be for from 5:00 for this, for these and it's not just canterbury cathedral, it's there are bishops across the country who are not doing their job of being custodians of our churches . churches. >> no, i will not get over it. >> no, i will not get over it. >> i think, you know, church is dead. religion is over. we're all having religions over. >> islam is going. >> islam is going. >> so we should all listen to benjamin's opinion about the future of the church. you could go and work for the archbishop of canterbury. >> now you're saying religion is dead?i >> now you're saying religion is dead? i think. >> i think benjamin could work for the archbishop of canterbury with that attitude. >> everyone's zoning out. look, the fact is, if it gets people to go to the to go. >> but this is the problem. >> but this is the problem. >> beautiful buildings that they're enjoying them. they're being useful. maybe it generates money. >> they're not. no they're not being used for their purpose. and this is the point, is it's bringing people in for a silent disco. it is not. not only is it not the proper use of the church, but it's also sacrilege. >> rather it be empty because that's what it is. >> no, i would rather it was

being used as a church because the bishops are not doing a properjob and you might not care about this, but i as an anglican do care about this. and there are many people around the country who do. >> the panel could confirm lecturing people doesn't persuade them so i've been trying for a year and a half. >> benjamin. i know that it part of it is a bit funny, you know, silent disco in a church and i'm not religious. so i come at this from a really, you know, interesting place where i don't go to church every sunday. however, i do live opposite two very big churches, and i have made the point of taking my little one age 4 or 5, up to the church to let her have a look around to explain to her what it is. she is in awe of it. she really thinks it's the most amazing place. and there is something very spiritual about churches, whether you're religious or not. so maybe what we need is for these archbishops of canterbury and bishops to be calling for parents to just bnng calling for parents to just bring their children. wait till she discovers silent discos. >> she'll love that. >> she'll love that. >> well, they should be trying to make the atmosphere sacred and serious, rather than doing things like putt putt courses and skateboarding. that brings

people into the church. but just as if it's some kind of community centre, it's just another beautiful building somewhere to have a party. there was recently a case at a may ball in cambridge that was reported on by stephen edgington. gb news very own of them doing a naked drawing class in front of the altar, baring themselves naked towards the altar. it's so disrespectful not to only christians, but also to the heritage of this country. >> yeah, exactly. >> yeah, exactly. >> and i think that that rich inheritance that's been handed down to us, actually, you know, if i can be a bit, worthy for a second, i think one day this country is going to need its churches again. and i think it needs them now. well, well, we do, certainly. but i think in the future we'll maybe be more willing to actually use them. and what will we have done if we said to that inheritance that's been handed to down us? well, to hell with it. we're going to use them as glorified help, literally, or whatever else. >> i promise you, this is not happening in synagogues or mosques. they take their religion seriously and they call people to it. we should be doing that. >> and it's the unseriousness that chases people away. >> we'll leave that one there. folks. you're with the saturday five live on gb news coming up. we'll be discussing

self—checkouts, which are to be cut back in the supermarket chain morrisons as their boss admits they've gone too far. do you think that? let me know . you think that? let me know. gbnews.com/yoursay you're with the five live on gb

welcome back to the saturday five. right, it's time for our last debate of this hour and unfortunately, my friends , and unfortunately, my friends, it's and unfortunately, my friends, wsfime and unfortunately, my friends, it's time for benjamin butterworth. >> yeah , last on the conveyor >> yeah, last on the conveyor belt of debates is that supermarkets are changing their tune on the prevalence of self checkouts . now, for the last checkouts. now, for the last decade, we've all got used to robots passing through our fish fingers and smiley faces as we try to get our shopping, and i think some people have got quite annoyed by it. so in the past couple of days, the bosses at morrisons, one of the country's biggest supermarkets, have said actually no, it's gone too far.

we've got too many self checkouts and this comes a week after asda, which is struggling with its sales, said that they're hiring more humans to do checkout because they think people no longer like having to do their own job checking out their their food and drinks when they leave the supermarket. now, i sometimes like not having to talk to anyone . what do you talk to anyone. what do you think of this doctor renee reciprocated. yes. yeah i like they like not talking to me. i think might be more accurate. you know, even the robots. >> don't i worry that we have a whole group of pensioners. actually, people over 50 who quite often don't talk to another human being in a week. and loneliness and isolation is one of the biggest killers in our society. it really leaves people out there in ill health, and it affects their mental health. so for me, people should have the opportunity to go and talk to people in society who are serving them, not machines. it also gives people jobs. >> that's what benjamin wants. he wants life to be harder for people. >> nobody talks to darren

outside the studio. so is that why you go to tesco or morrisons or anywhere? >> well, sharon says i love self—checkout, but people with children, the disabled are not so dextrous. older, early dementia and all the rest of it. they find them challenging and they really like the social aspect . aspect. >> maybe. maybe benjamin's being ableist. >> well, yes , he and we >> well, yes, he and we certainly exist and i worked at marks and spencer like ten years ago or something like that. and i always had whenever i was on the checkout tills, i always had a queue. i'm very proud to see because the older people used to like, speak to me because i think mentally i am an old soul and probably appearance wise as well . and actually, you know, well. and actually, you know, the fact of the matter was , the fact of the matter was, whenever i was on self—checkout, it was so soul destroying. you just have people that you're not there , right? you're not a there, right? you're not a person. it'sjust there, right? you're not a person. it's just transaction. and then they're out . and then they're out. >> morrisons have some sort of pastoral care function. i mean, aren't we just here to buy our groceries? >> no, look, they are there. well if you want to serve your customers and be there for your

customers and be there for your customers also, i think we live in a we live in a world where everybody's, you know, on their screens all the time, particularly children. >> and there's something nice about going into a shop, interacting with a human being and actually looking at someone in the eyes. it has a psychological effect on people after that point. >> then is there, you know, in the root cause of market competition and capitalism, they're there to make money for their shareholders. well, maybe more people would maybe people would prefer to go to a shop where they can see somebody. >> and having a mix is good. i don't like going to a shop where i can't choose between the two. i can't choose between the two. i generally personally choose self—checkout. that's because i'm a bit anti—social, but i don't think they have a pastoral function. but i do think that shops are part of a of a. i don't want to use a horrible word community, and i think it is important for human beings to have that face to face interaction with people and get to know the people who work in their shops. it's not nice for their shops. it's not nice for the employees either. as darren was saying, german says the shelves, they'll still be around in the in the supermarket. >> i'd imagine the reason morrisons are is because you can't you can't go talk to them

whilst they're stacking the shelves because they'll get wrong by the bosses. >> can you? you know, sometimes in these shops and i think, god, i'm going to start charging £9 an hour, the amount of work i'm doing just to get out. >> but, you know, i think you've made a really good point. we spend our whole lives looking at screens and, you know, you don't even need to go into a supermarket to get your goods. so if you're going in there, is it not healthy on a broader societal level that we interact with each other? because the rudest people you see are in self checkouts and they've got all these cameras, all these cctv, you know, in, in, in sainsbury's and waitrose, they've got, they've got it right in your face. it's horrible isn't it. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> well german says i'd like you to handle my melons darren. >> oh he's not his favourite one. one. >> one. >> well adam can help you with your cherries and, colin says i'm not a fan of self checkouts, but we'll use them if the queue is shorter. massive fan of driverless trains, though, so it's not that i'm adverse . it's not that i'm adverse. >> yeah, there is a bit of a contradiction in people's arguments there. >> well, i can't talk to the train driver though, can you. might be a bit distracting.

>> yes. >> yes. >> alan says you haven't mentioned the real problem. shoplifting. i mean, you did touch on it there, benjamin. you know, i used to live by the flagship sainsbury's store and it had a gate which had to put your receipt in. >> so you had you had the cameras watching your self—checkout, a gate as you left out another gate and then a security guard. it was like alcatraz. >> just some fish fingers. >> just some fish fingers. >> yeah, we'll leave that one there and loads more to come. my friends on the show tonight, including a big interview with a former police and crime commissioner on whether we have two tier policing in this country and how we can go about restoring faith in british policing after those riots. i'll see you after this . see you after this. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers, sponsors of weather on gb news. >> hello there. welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. over the next 24 hours, high pressure, largely holding on across the uk, keeping it fairly

dry and settled. a few showers still in the flow and we can see that on the bigger picture. generally low pressure to the north, high pressure extending in from the southwest, keeping most weather systems at bay for the rest of the weekend through this evening and overnight largely dry across much of the country. a few showers still possible across parts of scotland, northern england, down into wales and the west country, but most places dry as we head through the night and towns and cities generally holding up in double figures. but in the countryside dipping to down around 7 or 8 degrees. so a bit of a fresh start to sunday, but there'll be plenty of sunny spells, showers, though possible in a few places, most prevalent across central and northern parts of scotland. temperatures here first thing sunday morning around 10 to 12 celsius. so on the fresh side, best of the sunshine towards aberdeenshire, northern ireland, northern england also a few showers possible, largely in the west, the east generally dry and 1 or 2 showers for wales and the west country. parts of the midlands over into east anglia, southeast

england. plenty of sunshine to start sunday through the day . start sunday through the day. well that high pressure generally keeps things dry and settled for many parts more in the way of sunny spells for parts of wales, western parts of england, northern ireland. that was quite a cloudy picture on saturday. a few showers still possible across scotland, but they do start to ease later in they do start to ease later in the day. breezy here. temperatures on the cool side. 1516 celsius in the sunshine rising into the low 20s. highs around 25 celsius for london. then it's all changed slowly through monday as a weather system moves in from the atlantic. outbreaks of rain pushing in across northern ireland, the winds picking up through the irish sea as well. gales developing later on in the day. best of the sunshine holding on across the southeast. temperatures here around 25 or 26 celsius and staying unsettled right through much of the week. see you soon! >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers sponsors of up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> folks, it's saturday night and this is the saturday five. i'm darren grimes along with doctor renee, emma webb, adam cherry and benjamin butterworth. plenty more to come, including a big interview with a former police and crime commissioner. we're going to get on to that in a second. on how we can restore faith in british policing after the riots. it's 7 pm. and this is the saturday five. >> so, as i say, my friends still to come, we're going to be discussing two tier policing and how to restore trust in a police force that frankly, i think , force that frankly, i think, frankly, you know, 4 in 10 of us saying we don't trust the police. >> i have faith in them. it's

pretty damning. and soon it'll be time for our saturday scrap. on whether we need fewer universities and fewer mickey mouse degrees. doctor renee and benjamin butterworth are going to go head to head. then we'll be answering your questions in ask the five. please do send them through to gbnews.com/yoursay. first of all, though, we're going to get you saturday night news with sophia wenzler. >> darren. thank you. good evening. i'm sophia wenzler with your headlines just after 7:00, a fire at somerset house in central london has been contained after around 125 firefighters were called to tackle the blaze. priceless artworks, including a van gogh painting, have not been damaged. and will the public are safe after the fire ripped through the roof of the historic building earlier, the venue is now closed and all the events for this for this evening have

been cancelled. there are no reported injuries and the cause of the fire is currently under investigation. in ireland, a teenage boy has appeared in court charged over a stabbing outside renmore barracks, army chaplain father paul murphy posted on social media to say he was doing okay after receiving treatment for serious but non—life threatening injuries. the 16 year old boy, who cannot be named because he's a minor, was refused bail and remanded in custody. during the hearing, the court heard that there were indications of an extreme islamist mindset. gb news is home and security editor mark white has more for us now . white has more for us now. >> well, this short court heanng >> well, this short court hearing gave us the firmest indication yet of a terrorist motivation behind this attack at the irish army barracks on thursday night, the court heard that the 16 year old appeared to have a radical islamist mindset and possess material linked to

the radical group islamic state. father paul murphy, the army chaplain, was returning to the barracks late on thursday night in his car when he was approached and attacked. security cameras recorded more than 20 separate stabbing motions. the police suffered deep lacerations. the teenager has been remanded back into custody . custody. >> that was mark white speaking there. thank you very much. now police across the country are on high alert today as protests and counter—protests take place nationwide. it follows the arrest of 460 people so far unked arrest of 460 people so far linked to the violent disorder earlier this month, with hundreds now facing court. tensions are expected in birmingham, with the group stand up birmingham, with the group stand up to racism also taking to the streets. meanwhile, our reporter ray addison has been speaking to protesters in dover calling me a racist and they're calling me a fascist and a nazi. >> i'm just british in my

country, holding my union jack, looking out for my children and grandchildren, whom i've got, three of whom i love. >> my country and i want our future, you know, our kids to have something to, you know, have something to, you know, have something, you know , when have something, you know, when they when they grow up, you know, i don't want them to inherit something that's, you know, it'll be dangerous for them in the future. they'll have no, no facilities to use. you know, they don't get a doctor's appointment. >> i've come down here just really. so i can actually see what the reaction is. there must be 50 police here now protecting four of us. it's, because they want to attack us. and yet we're the ones that are being called the ones that are being called the aggressors. we're the ones that are being called the fascists and the racists. >> and the government is being warned. it will have to increase funding to meet its pledge to end the so—called 8 am. scramble for gp appointments. the doctors association claims at least £35 more per patient per year is needed to match funding levels from a decade

ago. during the election campaign, labour said it would make it easier to book appointments. those are the latest gb news headlines for now, i'm sophia wenzler moore in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . gbnews.com forward slash alerts. >> thank you sophia. >> thank you sophia. >> it's still saturday night my friends, and you're still with the saturday five. thank you very much. i'm darren grimes, and i can promise that you're for in another very lively hour. we're going to crack on with tonight's big interview. now, the riots have fizzled out. right. but is it time that we faced the real problem, that two tier identity politics. that's ripping britain to shreds? you've got white working class communities, especially in areas like the north, feeling

completely abandoned. but we've just seen there those protests on dover being branded as racist. 50 police their their livelihoods may have been decimated, voices ignored . where decimated, voices ignored. where does that actually leave us? well, maybe headed towards the same path we've seen before. right where maybe we're going to end up with white communities demanding their own community leaders to act as brokers with the police. as we saw in birmingham , for mobs of muslim birmingham, for mobs of muslim men, this as we see in birmingham, predictions of more unrest. >> we knew that there was going to be a large amount of people out on that counter protest. we knew who the vast majority of those people were. we'd had conversations in terms of what that was likely to look like, and so our policing response was commensurate to that intelligence and the information that we'd held with our partners and communities prior to that event. taking place, even given there were so many of them

clearly armed. >> i mean, would you do the same if it was an edl type situation? >> what i would say is that the vast majority of people that attended that protest yesterday did so law abiding and they did it with the right intentions . it with the right intentions. >> now, that's the kind of identity politics that leads to the fragmentation of society and a competition about oppression, isn't it? and as long as the state keeps cuddling up to these certain groups, it's going to fester resentment. so how do we solve this issue? well, to discuss, i'm absolutely delighted to welcome who should have been head of the met police , have been head of the met police, the former detective chief superintendent for the met, kevin hurley. kevin, thank you very much for giving up time on your trip abroad to join us on this very important topic. you've just seen there those clips that we had during the news where people were being sort of attacked in at dover for protesting against the boats that are coming over in vast numbers to this country record.

just last week, 700 came over in one single sunday. and for protesting that, they're saying that there's a two tier element to the actual policing element of such protests . would you of such protests. would you accept that that's the case? >> yes. we've had two tier policing for at least 30 years where police officers very quickly learn to tread on eggshells if they're dealing with different ethnic minority communities in the uk. they're very , very sensitive to being very, very sensitive to being called racist or bigoted or in any way biased . and the net any way biased. and the net result of that is police tend to back off or bend over backwards or avoid confrontation when perhaps confrontation is what's required. i personally have always taken the view that it doesn't matter who you are , you doesn't matter who you are, you are all equal under the law and should be dealt with in the same way. so if it requires a gentle word of advice, fine. and if it

requires really robust responses, then that should happen as well. but the bottom line on it is police for far too long have , if you like, long have, if you like, pussyfooted around certain issues and we saw it then with that superintendent there in west midlands who failed to address the question about there were people from a particular group who were carrying weapons, ignored the question and left it in the hands of community leaders. it is not acceptable for any particular group in society to think they are above the law, and for far too long policing has backed off. and you said i should have perhaps been commissioner in the met. who knows ? however, i can tell you knows? however, i can tell you that one of the issues that that caused me problems when i was serving was the fact that i took a zero tolerance policing approach to all forms of wrongdoing, regardless of where and when you come from. >> well, hang on, kevin. >> well, hang on, kevin. >> it caused your issues with who who who is that? is that

coming from the upper echelons of the force itself? >> yes. of course, the senior leadership of the police service, who always , always will service, who always, always will take the line of least resistance to avoid problems. the fact of the matter is , there the fact of the matter is, there are people within our society who are disproportionately involved in crime, and we are no longer in it. but the police service back off. and it's not the constables who are doing this or indeed the sergeants or even inspectors, but it's certainly chief police officers. and once people reach chief inspector, superintendent rank inspector, superintendent rank in the police, they tend to look for where their next rank is, where their next promotion is, their next pension uplift, quite frankly, because i was part of that and therefore they will toe the party line. >> now, kevin, i must ask you because, you know, you were in your opinion and in mine actually, as well, you would have been a really good top chief of the metropolitan

police. >> do you think actually that because you stand against this identity politics and perhaps we've seen this since the 1980s, kevin, perhaps it was laudable at the time when, you know, there were protests in the 1980s with black communities who felt that they were mistreated by the police force. and in response to that, we put in place these measures, these diversity and inclusion measures, and especially with the report that came after the murder of stephen lawrence. and the fact of the matter was that the response to those moments in our history has been to put in place this kind of policing, but it's had an effect of actually diminishing trust , respect and faith in the trust, respect and faith in the force. so how do we get that balance? right. because right now there are a hell of a lot of white people who are saying, well, actually, i feel exactly as black people did in the 19805.

1980s. >> 19805. >> well, i think the present commissioner of the met has got a real challenge on. i don't envy him in the balance. he's trying to take. i suppose the best thing you could say, if you're the commissioner of the met is if you've managed to upset everybody, you've probably made the right decision. but the answer to the question, the question is that the public, i suppose, know the fact is the pubuc suppose, know the fact is the public are losing confidence in the police because they are not delivering basic services that they expect from their police in terms of dealing with anti—social behaviour on their streets, responding to burglaries, and when they see various groups, regardless of who they are or what their protesting about, see them actively breaking the law and no action being taken against them. yes, the police have got real challenges in terms of manpower and resources, but they have yet to bite the bullet and realise that as the demographics of the

country have changed, they need to adopt methods for dealing with public disorder that are very, very effective abroad, such as the use of water cannon. and we could be even cleverer and put index marker solutions like smartwater in that spray. everybody and the net result would be that all these drunken louts that have turned up causing trouble in the last week or so in the uk, instead of the police saying, oh, we've got 500, we've got 1000, they could actually get every single one of them if they'd sprayed them with a marker solution, because you can't get it off. right. so the police have the police have got to go a long way in terms of demonstrating they can recall, regain control against these yobbish elements, whether they are white, drunken scum, asian youths from the local mosque who are turning up, causing a problem or they're anti—nazi league or whatever. nobody has got confidence now in this country that they can take

control . and they've therefore control. and they've therefore got to change the paradigm of how they deal with public order and start to use modern methods. >> so, kevin, then just, just finally, before i go back to the panel finally, before i go back to the panel, is it your view? because there are many people getting in touch right now who, by the way, love you and what you have to say. but they're asking the question is what's happening in response to these riots? and, you know, as you mentioned, i concur what you've just said, that those setting to fire buildings and seeking to harm people and all the rest of it, they are and deserve to be criminalised. but is there an issue here that actually the enforcement of this plays into that two tier narrative? because there are people who, for example, the manchester airport couple, there is the fact that harehills, what happened in harehills, what happened in harehills and leeds hasn't been deau harehills and leeds hasn't been dealt with in the same way. you can pinpoint moments over recent

times where the police have not acted like this and there hasn't been this gloating of charging and arrests online and by politicians that people are starting to say, well, there's one rule for one and a completely different one for others. and that is a worry for you as a former copper that actually that's going to do pretty big damage to trust and faith in police . faith in police. >> of course it will. >> of course it will. >> i mean, the fact of the matter is quite rightly, very robust action has been taken all the drunken louts, the morons who turned up trying to set fire to hotels, attacking police, and so , quite rightly, but what we so, quite rightly, but what we now want to be able to see from a point of view of public order, it's a point i've just made, is whoever turns up on the street, quite frankly, if they are causing a problem, they need to be dealt with equally robustly. >> but there are other issues that the police are failing to

deal with firmly and appropriately, such as inner city knife crime, particularly in london, where stop and search has dropped across london by about two thirds. >> well, because that's racist as well, right? >> that's racist even though it saves black people's lives. you know . know. >> yeah. well, i mean, the bottom line is because the constables on the street have decided it's not in their best interest to stop and search people, particularly from the black community, who are the ones doing the dying and the ones doing the dying and the ones doing the stabbing. so the people actually doing the crying are black mums who lose their sons to knives or guns, or lose their sons to life imprisonment when they're convicted of murder. >> and i remember cressida dick said the same thing. >> the former met chief. she said the same thing, but we'll leave that there. kevin, thank you very much for your time and for, as i say, giving up time whilst you're away. thank you very much as ever. that's the former detective chief

superintendent for the met police , kevin hurley. now, my police, kevin hurley. now, my friends, on the basically to give you an overview of what's been said there, there is a sense that in kevin's professional opinion, as a former serving officer himself, high up within the service, that actually people like him with his opinion are pushed out because of the fact that they think diversity and inclusion has absolutely skewed the priorities of the police force into being creating several tiers of policing. how do we actually combat that? how do we? because the reason being, you could argue, was that in the 19805, could argue, was that in the 1980s, there were the riots by black people over what they argued and what some, many argue were justifiable concerns of, unfair policing towards them. now, though in reverse, you're seeing white people saying, well, hang on, what's happened

in the 1980s is happening to us now. so you know what? firstly, do you accept that that's the case? and secondly, how do we address it? who wants to come in first? >> i think that yes, i absolutely accept it and i agree with it. and i think what he's describing so eloquently is that the same process that's actually happenedin the same process that's actually happened in all of our institutions, be it in education, be it in the civil service, be it in all layers of government, that this diversity, eqtu government, that this diversity, equity and inclusion has managed to push out anybody that doesn't agree with it. so you then get this prevailing view whilst underneath everything goes to hell in a handcart. so in order to actually reverse it, it's actually going to be very, very difficult because all of the up and coming police officers, anyone that's coming out of education from university, is going to be of that mindset because they have been trained and indoctrinated to be of that mindset. so it's going to take some pretty strong leadership at the very top to say , no, this is the very top to say, no, this is how you're. >> and one way to do that would

to be not prioritise, people coming out of universities. and when i say not prioritise what i mean is to focus on hiring police officers. you haven't been to university who are you know, you know, maybe they can do some kind of apprenticeship or something because the problem is die. you know, if people were just being treated fairly and it's not just the policing, it's also the justice system . if also the justice system. if there wasn't this this sense that there is almost a kind of opfics that there is almost a kind of optics and necessity for the for the correct optics to appear to be policing some more likely than others, then then we wouldn't have this . i say wouldn't have this. i say appearance of unfairness. i think it is actual unfairness in the way the police approach different parts of the public as they understand them, because they're the ones who are dividing them up into those communities. but it's not necessarily the case that the people that they would define as being part of a certain community would think of themselves in the same way, this diy dogma that we're talking about, which, as you said, is in diversity, equity and inclusion. >> yeah. which is in, in

whitehall, as we'll come to later on, you know, all our institutions. i think that's a massive failure of the conservative government. i think they yeah, i agree with that. i you know, they let that happen for 14 years. >> it's also the country isn't that there are more black people or women in senior positions and that there's a conscious one said that. no, but it is because this is about having a conscious effort to create spaces where those people can be promoted. >> he's got all the straw man's tonight. >> the reason that, you know, there was no black women running ftse 100 companies 40 years ago wasn't because none of them were capable. it was because there were institutional barriers. none of them were capable. well, it seems extremely unlikely. it does. >> no, it just happened in a discrimination case that they would be the case. two white coppers, because an asian who didn't have the same level of experience and qualification that they had didn't get, he got the job over them for the fact that they wanted to have an asian man in the role. they won that case. that's a court of law. >> if you were to go through the tribunal cases, you'd find ten times as many the other way

round, right of course you would over recent decades. and i think that, you know, if every police officer in this country was a muslim man, do you think that white people would automatically feel so comfortable ? of course feel so comfortable? of course they wouldn't. they'd say. they'd say, or do they understand my community? and we see that in reverse. and i think it's your privilege that shows that you don't understand why these minority communities feel ostracised. >> the point isn't that representation on some level is a good thing. you know, whether we go towards quotas and all that and end up killing off meritocratic values is another. >> i'm sorry. i think this country has been run by mediocre to rubbish white men for a long time. the idea that white blokes are also fantastic. oh, the country doesn't look like it. >> i'm not. we're not talking about their colour or anything like that. it's just, it's a how do i put this ? it's more do i put this? it's more divisive ultimately because it just reminds you that of our differences. yeah, that's what it is. and that's why it's poisonous. >> before we had this change in the point of people didn't get a chance. >> if the point is that we want to look past race and sexuality

and all that, then if we keep talking about it over and over again and only recruit people for those characteristics, which is ultimately the end goal of this dei, this diversity dogma, as i see it, i think that's a worse outcome. >> this is also a problem with the college of policing as well, because they're an unaccountable quango. they are the ones who invented the category of a non—crime hate incident. so i think that the college of policing also have a lot to add. i've got one. >> i've got a hate non—crime hate incident. you have another one? >> yes. 45 minutes. well, probably. >> oh, here we are. here we are. >>— >> oh, here we are. here we are. >> you can report whatever he likes. >> benjamin, you must think that the likes of the non—crime hate incident are an absolute outrage. that you've got people that work for the police force, scouring through the internet and all the rest of it to actually report people for non crimes . crimes. >> i mean, look, there are an awful lot of crimes that the police don't investigate. and so i think given that they don't have the capacity to do that, things that explicitly are not thought to be a crime is a waste of time. >> right. >> right. >> but i would investigate heavily.

>> yeah. well, many would, vicky says. does benjamin not understand that this is ultimately a white country at the moment and therefore there will of course be more white people in jobs? i mean, that's also majority women. >> and, you know, i'm pretty sure if you asked a lot of women that have had careers in the police, certainly a decade or a couple of decades ago, they wouldn't tell you. but hang on, great workplace. >> hang on. scandinavia is one of the most gender equal societies by gender. and when everything the playing field is open completely, women just happen to choose different jobs to men. yes. so there there are other reasons for that. >> that's not an argument for making places unwelcome to certain groups who made that argument. >> i wish we'd made this show on. welcome to you. still to come tonight we've got the bunch of five where we'll discuss nonh of five where we'll discuss north korea reopening for tourists. we're sending benjamin there and how he actually wants to go and how labour could reverse the ban on woke civil service jobs. but next, the saturday scrap , benjamin service jobs. but next, the saturday scrap, benjamin and doctor renee will go head to head on. whether we have too many universities with useless degrees.

the saturday five

gb news. welcome back to the saturday five. now lots of you have been sending in your thoughts on previous guest kevin hurley who said white drunken scum. now i didn't actually hear that, but of course if i had i would have challenged him on it. as many of you have been writing in to say you have been writing in to say you would have liked to have done so. so thank you very much for those comments coming in. but now, though, it's time for this . okay, well , the tonight's this. okay, well, the tonight's main event, folks, because the saturday scrap includes with a—level results this week, thousands of students are now aware of their grades. enough to know whether or not they can get them into their university of

choice, or whether they're going to have to go through clearing and all that malarkey. however, many courses are now known as mickey mouse degrees. so should we cut university targets for 50% of kids to go to universities? or should we just get rid of these so—called mickey mouse degrees altogether? should we actually scrap some universities? frankly, too . universities? frankly, too. well, seconds out, it's round one. benjamin butterworth, doctor renee , take it away. doctor renee, take it away. >> okay, i'm going to start tonight , >> okay, i'm going to start tonight, benjamin, because you started last time. so firstly, i think the answer to all of those questions is yes, but let me explain why i think tony blair actually wrecked education and our young people in this country when he decided that 50% should be the targets for university, 50% of our kids should go to university. in this sweep of a pen where he actually got rid of polytechnics and made them into more universities that we didn't need. he convinced our young people that the only legitimate way to be respectable in society was to have a degree. and obviously in doing that, then

fees went up and along the way you came out the other end with a degree of any type that you wanted. i know of people who have done film degrees where they have six hours of lessons, a week, six hours that they're far too stressed to get a job of course, as well. now, the thing about all of this is, is that what he did at the same time was increase migration into those low skilled jobs that people would have done so when they came out of university, even if they couldn't get a graduate job, which many of them can't. neither could they rely on being able to get any kind of job, even if it was a low skill one, because they'd been taken by migrants pushing down the wages even further so nobody could get a job anymore that could actually pay for them to actually pay for them to actually live a life, get a house, make some savings. we then convinced nurses and the police that they needed to have degrees. those jobs were no more respectable if they didn't have a degree . so we now have this a degree. so we now have this whole tranche of people who arguably are not as good as the old vocationally trained nurses and policemen and other things

we actually have laden these kids with massive degrees, and we now don't have plasterers or plumbers or anyone to do those jobs. and yet, ironically, if you can actually get yourself trained as a plasterer or a plumber today , you learn plumber today, you learn £120,000 a year. you know, if you want to go into nursing, you'll start on about 28,000 a yean you'll start on about 28,000 a year, but you will have your student debt, of course. so yes, we need to get rid of the need for these degrees. we need to actually make all jobs at the same level in terms of respectability . as a society, we respectability. as a society, we should be as proud of a waitress as we are of a doctor, and we should actually only have degrees that are necessary to lead to a vocational job. so doctors, lawyers, architects , doctors, lawyers, architects, engineers we don't need degrees in film or taylor swift studies or sport. let's go back to proper apprenticeships where we fast track children into what they're good at, not let's recognise their skills and be proud of all of them . proud of all of them. >> i think this is a wildly outdated and out of touch argument, and you make it

perfectly by saying that people studying film is a bad thing. now, one of the things, one of the few things, frankly, that britain continues to lead the world in is our cultural sector. no country besides the us competes with britain's cultural output. we make billions, tens of billions from our film industry, from our sets, from our music, from our theatre . and our music, from our theatre. and thatis our music, from our theatre. and that is an area where it's a wise investment to have great university degrees, great training for young people. now, let me point this out. a lot of what you say, the problems we have, whether it's the effects of migration on the workforce, whether it's stagnant wages or access to assets, those things are broader economic problems . are broader economic problems. they're not about universities or the level of debt that they give you isn't about the principle. we have to understand what kind of a country the united kingdom is and where our opportunities in the world lie. and it isn't as much as people want to hark back in manufacturing, in so—called low skilled jobs, that is not what grows our economy. look at some

of the similar economies like ours canada, finland, sweden , ours canada, finland, sweden, japan. they have targets of 50% or higher degrees. south korea , or higher degrees. south korea, a very similar country that massively exceeds what you'd expect, a nation of that size and position to achieve in its economy has a target of 75% of young people going to university, and that is because we are a tertiary economy . our we are a tertiary economy. our skills are in our education levels. that's where we get the kind of people that can do high level jobs that attract massive companies, banks, consultancies, you know , the banking sector is you know, the banking sector is 20% of our gdp. we need highly educated people because manufacturing jobs ain't coming back. no matter how much you hark all right, well, let's take that out to the panel now then . that out to the panel now then. >> ding ding ding, i wonder, adam, one of our comments says that actually the universities let the grades slip in 1991 onwards. the reason here is that

there are more firsts. the reason there are more firsts today is because actually, you know, what you're getting as a first is actually a22 grade inflation. it's grade inflation. so are we actually just creating a factory farm of young people to put money into the coffers of these vice chancellors, of these universities and, and actually selling children a very cruel lie. >> it's a cruel lie. and we should actually allow these universities to fail on their business acumen, because then they shouldn't come cap in hand to us to say we need more money. we can't cope without chinese students anymore. because i can tell you, i know many of those film students and they didn't go on to have glittering careers. >> sorry. >> sorry. >> can i just point out when people talk about foreign students, you know, they pay an enormous amount of money compared to domestic students, so they're paying our bills to benjamin to be so much of a capitalist. >> did you point out, just ask yourself, why is the brightest and the best and the richest from around the world queuing up to go to our universities? >> we would be idiots to stop our own kids getting those opportunities. why do you think

rich chinese kids want to go to oxbridge or lse or any of those? >> nobody's saying to these kids, you can't have that opportunity, but what we're saying is we should actually make the plane, you know, because you're saying we should cut the number of places. we should absolutely cut the number of places. so you're saying that nonsense? >> you're saying that poor people's kids shouldn't get those. >> adam. come in. >> adam. come in. >> the point is, students in stem. yeah. more the merrier, please. because they're valuable. they're valuable skills. and they will go into high paying work. doctors, for example. law those vocational skills. great. six hours a week in learning film, watching citizen kane or whatever. you know, they don't go on to become christopher nolan, do they? they don't. they're not adding value. talked about the culture sector. how many of those people in the cultural sector actually studied is massively growing in this country? and how many of those people studied film? >> i think, if i'm not mistaken, a fifth of people in london work in something related to that. now how many? that is a study. >> not thanks to getting a film degree. how many of them studied film, university of finger painting or whatever else? >> emma webb well, it's i mean, it's you've mentioned film, but there are all sorts of things like gender studies or whatever,

and it creates an economy of its own. it creates jobs like you know, all these di managers who get paid a hell of a lot more working in the nhs than the than the doctors and the nurses do. and so i, i agree with everything that reni has said. i take what you're saying about the fact that we have become a tertiary economy, but the reality is that it's quite strange hearing this coming from you because you're a socialist that, well, i've never been socialist. >> i'm a socialist. i believe you have to grow the pie. but people also should get a piece of the pie, guaranteed. >> and we need to . >> and we need to. >> and we need to. >> we need to stop looking down our nose at people who. >> exactly. >> exactly. >> no, i'm sorry, i don't. of course you shouldn't. look down their nose. and it's. >> what? >> what? >> why is it that 80% of kids in kensington and chelsea, this country's richest borough, go to university , but only 20% in university, but only 20% in bolton? when people talk about having fewer university places, it's not the rich kids. it's not the pushy middle class parents. >> it would have helped if labour hadn't shut down so many grammar schools, and it changes people's lives.

>> you could bring back grants for those working class kids and then they could go, okay, but that's about that's a social mobility. >> let me go on to a break, benjamin. unless you're going to pay benjamin. unless you're going to pay council estate, kid like me going to lse changed my life. >> and i think other people should have that opportunity. >> so a council that me didn't go to university initially, we'll leave that there really. well right still ahead we answer all of your questions in ask the five. no topics are off limits. i wonder what you've in store for this week. you're

gb news. welcome back to the saturday five, as always. thank you very much for your emails about tonight's topics. we're going to get to some more of those in ask the five now though, it's time for this . right newbie cherries for this. right newbie cherries up first. what have you got for us adam. >> so this is something of a theme for today's topics, isn't

it? reports of a ban on civil service diversity, jobs being reversed by the labour government. now, this is something that is a perennial problem of diversity and inclusion. jobs across whitehall. the last conservative government tried to stop them. i wrote about it frequently at my old job. they said they were going to end it. they never did. and now labour have come in and said, you know what? we're not even going to try. and i think, i think it's a complete waste of money. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> and that sort of takes us into that upward debate earlier about diversity. equity and inclusion doesn't it? and this stuff is pervasive. it's absolutely everywhere. it's infected the whole country . and infected the whole country. and it's why people get on this panel. panel >> yeah i'm the diversity hire renee what have you got. >> so this week chris packham once again demonstrated that the cult of climate is reaching its frenzy. and i won't tell you what he said. we'll just play it. we have a clip of what he said. >> if anyone here is banking with barclays, then i suggest you stick your head in a bucket

of fuel and set fire to it, because you're burning our planet down and it's time to put this stuff behind us and people clap. >> i mean, can you imagine if he'd have said, if anyone here is jewish, please put your head in a bucket of petrol and set fire to it. can you imagine? apparently the police have investigated that and there is nothing to pursue. >> two tier policing. yeah honestly, you would think that that must be some form of incitement, wasn't it, >> benjamin, would you bang him up, so to speak , now? up, so to speak, now? >> no, i'm not in the sps. >> no, i'm not in the sps. >> i mean, look, anything anything that's offensive or inciting hatred should obviously be investigated. >> you were about to say anybody who says anything that's offensive needs to be put in prison. >> will you be in banking? barclays or putting your head in a bucket or put it in your head? >> don't get your hopes up. unfortunately, i need the money, so i do intend to be back next saturday. >> right now it's time for mine. shockingly, this season of strictly come dancing is to be

the most expensive yet. and i say look, yet again. once again, it's romans at the beeb are actually requiring more of our money, more of the tax. well, the licence fee payers cash that we're all forced to fund with threat of prison. >> i say they can have a childminder so that they can have basically everyone chaperoned to ensure that there's no wrongdoing that goes on and all these other things i mean, honestly, i mean, look, you know, we've had some really worrying stories of former contestants, the celebrity contestants, the celebrity contestants saying that they've been hit, they've been verbally abused, and they're investigating that those investigations cost a fortune, for a start. >> and now they all have to have a minder in the studio the whole time when they're learning the dances and they spend like six hours a day doing this, i think they're doing the right thing because in theatre in the west end, it's normal that somebody would be watching all the rehearsals, that they wouldn't be left to their to their

lonesome. yeah and, you know, it's the biggest show on television. so what's wrong with spending money on it? >> yeah, well, i just sort of think if they want to do it, try and compete in the private sector, that might be an idea. >> emma webb, what have you got for us? well, a pensioner called daphne austin, who's in her 70s, died of sepsis. >> and, the inquest found. and the coroner ruled that this was a result of neglect. she was dehydrated, her glucose was uncontrolled . and the coroner uncontrolled. and the coroner ruled that this was due to a delay in blood testing. that was, partly due to the junior doctors walking out. and we keep heanng doctors walking out. and we keep hearing over and over again that these doctors striking gps striking isn't going to have any impact on patients. of course, i'm sure very few of us actually believe that that will be the case, that it doesn't have an impact . otherwise. what's the impact. otherwise. what's the point in striking? they're saying that they're so overburdened that they don't have enough staff to go around. so i don't know how you can have

sufficient cover to make sure that your patients are taken care of properly. and so this lady had a delay in her blood testing. she died as a result of sepsis, which is quite an unpleasant way to go, to put it lightly, and i just think that this is unbelievably appalling. and i think it shows the irresponsibility of those who are choosing to walk out. >> yeah, it does, and it calls into question, actually the ethics and morality of strike action. benjamin, what have you got? >> well, i'm thinking of going on holiday, darren. and there is somewhere special that's just opened up, opened in december, in fact , i think we should all in fact, i think we should all go there. and it's north korea, so it's been closed since the start of 2020. to travellers, unless you're russian or chinese, because it was still under covid measures , despite under covid measures, despite saying that it never had a problem with covid. oh there's the lefty people . and would you the lefty people. and would you go to north korea. >> no, no i think i might actually one of our viewers,

cassandra, says benjamin, is too left wing and woke even for nonh left wing and woke even for north korea. >> can you can you do the little march? >> benjamin i think you'd fit in nicely in north korea. >> i was in the scout band as a kid, so i did the marching. >> they'll love you. >> they'll love you. >> they'll love you. >> they'll love you fit. you'll be made an honorary colonel of the north korean favourite party leader is kim jong starmer, isn't he? i think i think that's wrong, but you know, you can go to the mountainous region of nonh to the mountainous region of north korea from december this yeah >> you know, i love my sort of unpredictable , offbeat travel. i unpredictable, offbeat travel. i went to iraq recently. i went to yemen. i'm definitely on a list at the foreign office. and i think it's pretty. i think it's pretty interesting. >> well, benjamin, i'm delighted to let you know that actually, there has been a crowdfunding appeal @gbnews .com forward slash kwasi, and all of our viewers are delighted by the idea and willing to fund it. still ahead though, we answer all of your questions in ask the five. no topic is limits. i wonder you've got in store

gb news. welcome back to the saturday five. thank you very much for all of your emails and messages about tonight's topics. speaking of though, it's time for this . of though, it's time for this. yes indeedy, it's time for ask the five. let's see what you've got for us this week . now panel, got for us this week. now panel, if every immigrant to the uk went on strike, how many days do you think it would take for the country to grind to a halt? that's from andy. thank you for that, andy. well, benjamin, i assume you think quite a lot. >> quite a lot of what? i mean, it wouldn't take any time for the country to grind to a halt because immigrants, the children of immigrants, you know, have built this country and they have done for many, many decades. >> and yet our gdp per capita has not risen in well since the 19505, in 15 years. so recent immigration has done nothing for

our it's record highs. >> imagine how bad it would be if we didn't have . if we didn't have. >> oh, that's talented people coming over here. >> and how dare you say that all of the ancestors of everyone on this panel who has worked their blood, sweat and tears to build this country are very likely to be british. i thank you very much. they are. all of our ancestors can be tracked back. >> well, i'm the grandkids of canadian immigrants and, you know, i think vast majority of people in this country doesn't take long to find that they're from a different not me. >> but benjamin's answer reminds me of i can't remember who it was who tweeted out a list that people found very funny. i was supposed to be a sort of argument for how indispensable migrants are , and she did the migrants are, and she did the classic as saying , the guy who, classic as saying, the guy who, you know, does the cleaning et cetera, et cetera. et cetera, yeah. of course, if, as benjamin was saying earlier, we're a tertiary economy, but somebody does have to do those jobs and it always seems to be the argument of the left that it should be immigrants who do

those jobs. >> indeed. right. thank you andy. now next one, can we declare the uk riots officially over? now it appears the tough sentences have worked. and that's from mary. i mean , is it that's from mary. i mean, is it true? do you think the iron fist of the law and sir keir starmer showing his muscles have worked renee i do think that people are now thinking twice about going out and being, now thinking twice about going out and being , you know, out and being, you know, mindlessly violent. >> so yes, i think the riots, but i also think, renee, in the same token, everyone's scared of what they're saying online that starmer is going to send the cops to arrest people. i'm just going to say, but what this will achieve, actually, is it will silence people in just non—violent ways and send everything underground. and when you send things underground, it gets worse. >> didn't they say if you're just a casual few months, weren't it? >> that's why i imagine it'll blow up again in a few months. a few months, not necessarily wide scale, wide spread riots, but i think if we're not addressing the root causes of this, yeah, every now and then this will be like nigel farage said in in france, it'll be the same sort of thing . yeah, like the gilets

of thing. yeah, like the gilets jaunes and all the rest of it. >> my favourite tweet was when they said, isn't it good if britain to host france's annual riots while they have the olympics? >> all right, next question. >> all right, next question. >> what else traditional have you zoned out of benji? we know about elderly people now. the church and religion. that's from dawn. >> i like dawn. >> i like dawn. >> well, i've i've never been, religious. you know, i don't care about harry potter. i don't care about harry potter. i don't care about harry potter. i don't care about christianity. they're all sort of made up books. you're happy to read them, but they are. they are nonsense, but i did go to a church of england primary school, and actually, i let you into a secret, if you walked into my flat, you would definitely think, a sort of elderly tory mp lived there because everything. i've got a union jack flag in my bedroom , union jack flag in my bedroom, everything is wooden. i've got a grandfather clock, a piano . i do grandfather clock, a piano. i do live quite traditionally . live quite traditionally. >> all right. >> all right. >> it's not zoned out of the grandfather clocks. not just yet. >> no, i don't like to assume it's gender, but i believe all capitalism in his grandmother clock. >> right. next question. which

of the following would you like to go to dinner with and why? donald trump, to go to dinner with and why? donald trump , angela rayner and donald trump, angela rayner and eddie izzard, elon musk, billy connolly and kamala harris or keir starmer? jk rowling and ricky gervais ? ricky gervais? >> oh, i think number three for me, because i would love to see ricky gervais take on keir starmer. >> and of course j.k. rowling as well. >> jk and ricky would dull the pain of keir. >> exactly. yeah, exactly . >> exactly. yeah, exactly. >> exactly. yeah, exactly. >> whereas if you go for number one i think are we all agreed you'd be ganged up on number one. >> one. >> number one. no i would go number two because i'd want to be at dinner with the next us. president, kamala harris. >> elon musk. >> elon musk. >> oh gosh. >> oh gosh. >> right . very quickly, emma, >> right. very quickly, emma, you've got a comment for us i do. >> so this is has been sent to me by a friend of mine whose husband i believe is a, a train driver. and she said the training for a train driver is intense. you have to have so much knowledge in your head at all times and concentrate constantly, all day. pay rise is definitely justified, and the

fact that they've not had a proper pay rise in more than is that they've not had a proper pay that they've not had a proper pay rise in more than four years. so i thought i'd read it out because it's contrary to i've been saying that they shouldn't have a pay rise justifies them earning more than doctors, because you don't have to know much to be a doctor without any productivity requests either. >> yeah, you know. yeah. >> yeah, you know. yeah. >> i mean, i'd like to see you say the economy wouldn't mind, but it's a good it's a good argument. >> it's a good argument against those who say it's an easy job. >> yeah, indeed. >> yeah, indeed. >> thank you very much. to our guest tonight. next up, my friends. well, yeah. adam popped his cherry. very well, i thought. next up, it's the brilliant leo kearse with this saturday night showdown. thank you very much for watching. we'll see you again next week. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers. sponsors of weather on gb news. >> hello there. welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. over the next 24 hours, high

pressure, largely holding on across the uk, keeping it fairly dry and settled. a few showers still in the flow and we can see that on the bigger picture. generally low pressure to the north, high pressure extending in from the southwest, keeping most weather systems at bay for the rest of the weekend through this evening and overnight largely dry across much of the country. a few showers still possible across parts of scotland, northern england, down into wales and the west country, but most places dry as we head through the night and towns and cities generally holding up in double figures. but in the countryside dipping down to around 7 or 8 degrees. so a bit of a fresh start to sunday, but there'll be plenty of sunny spells, showers, though possible in a few places, most prevalent across central and northern parts of scotland. temperatures here first thing sunday morning around 10 to 12 celsius. so on the fresh side, best of the sunshine towards aberdeenshire, northern ireland, northern england also a few showers possible, largely in the west, the east generally dry and 1 or

2 showers for wales and the west country. parts of the midlands over into east anglia, southeast england. plenty of sunshine to start sunday through the day . start sunday through the day. well that high pressure generally keeps things dry and settled for many parts more in the way of sunny spells for parts of wales, western parts of england, northern ireland that we saw quite a cloudy picture on saturday. a few showers still possible across scotland, but they do start to ease later in they do start to ease later in the day. breezy here. temperatures on the cool side. 1516 celsius in the sunshine rising into the low 20s. highs around 25 celsius for london. then it's all changed slowly through monday as a weather system moves in from the atlantic. outbreaks of rain pushing in across northern ireland. the winds picking up through the irish sea as well. gales developing later on in the day. best of the sunshine holding on across the southeast. temperatures here around 25 or 26 celsius and staying unsettled right through much of the week. see you soon! >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather

gb news. >> in tears for keir. we've seen two tier policing and two tier media coverage with people being sent to jail for posting on facebook or joining in with naughty chants. is there now two tier sentencing plus notice your placard saying refugees welcome here. >> i'm just wondering if you'd like to go down on the list saying you're willing to take the refugees into your home. of course, the only problem is i rent lefty protesters demand that britain open its borders to unvetted undocumented men from other cultures. >> but are they willing to open their front doors to the same men? someone went and asked them and their answers will not surprise you one bit. and labour foreign secretary david lammy says that britain has always been a multicultural place and the far right are the people who

need to integrate. is he right