very good evening to you. welcome to neil oliver's show with me, bev turner. tonight, while neil is on his holidays, we are of course, on tv, radio and online now. i'm sorry about the red and the red. i didn't get the memo. if i look like a disembodied head. i'm so sorry. tonight, though, it's been a terrifying week. if you believe in free speech, one man's charges for social media posts included the reference to his anti—establishment rhetoric. i'm not joking. we're going to be asking a leading barrister what all of this might mean. the boxer at the centre of the olympic gender controversy is suing elon musk and j.k. rowling for aggravated cyber harassment.

what chance does imane khelif have of winning that .7 and it's have of winning that? and it's now called m—pox, not monkeypox, presumably because we didn't take it seriously enough when they tried that last year. the world health organisation has declared mpox a major global emergency. the first cases have now been found in europe. i'll be asking an expert if it's just another infection with a powerful marketing campaign. and finally, we're going to be catching up with the australian olympic breakdancing story , olympic breakdancing story, which is still spinning across the world. all of that and more coming up. but first, an update on the latest . news. on the latest. news. >> good evening. i'm sophia wenzler with your headlines at 6:01 o'clock. us secretary of state antony blinken has arrived in israel to push for a ceasefire and hostage release dealin ceasefire and hostage release deal in gaza. it comes as over 20 people have been killed in israeli airstrikes in gaza and lebanon. iran backed hezbollah

has continued firing rockets in retaliation. it comes as israel's prime minister expressed cautious optimism about a ceasefire deal with hamas , including for the release hamas, including for the release of hostages. the militant group isn't present for the talks, but a senior officials claimed there's been no progress in reaching a deal. meanwhile, president biden claims he's remaining optimistic that an agreement is closer than ever. there are concerns that the safety of the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is deteriorating after a drone strike. it caused an explosion just outside the site's protected area, although no casualties have been reported. the facility, the largest of its kind in europe, has been occupied by russian soldiers since the early stages of the war. it comes as ukraine's incursion continues into russian territory. former head of counter—terrorism at the ministry of defence, major general chip chapman, says british donated equipment is helping ukraine push back.

vladimir putin one of the things that the offensive does is establish momentum and initiative and gives more willingness to continue to support ukraine, because what you can say previously is that they were losing slowly and initially the provision of support equalised the battlefield. >> and now at least the momentum and initiative is with them in a tactical sense. >> now the home secretary is launching a major crackdown on misogyny , saying it will be misogyny, saying it will be treated as a form of extremism. yvette cooper has ordered a review of the uk's counter—extremism strategy to determine how to best tackle threats posed by harmful ideologies. the analysis will look at hatred of women as one of the ideological trends that the government says is gaining traction. official figures reveal almost 500 people crossed the english channel yesterday . the english channel yesterday. at least nine small boats made the journey following two days of no reported migrant arrivals. it brings the total number of migrants reaching uk waters so

far this year to 19,000. the home office insists it's creating a new border security command to tackle the problem. in other news, a biotech firm that produces an mpox vaccine is ramping up production after a new strain was found in europe. the clade one b strain has been confirmed in sweden after first being detected in the democratic repubuc being detected in the democratic republic of congo. it's believed to be the most dangerous version of the disease so far. to be the most dangerous version of the disease so far . a don't of the disease so far. a don't swim alert has been issued for a popular devon seaside town because of a sewage leak. south west water says it can't keep up with the spill, caused by a burst pipe at a nearby pumping station in exmouth. it has apologised and insists engineers are working around the clock to fix the problem. it comes after the regulator, ofwat, announced water bills will rise in average on £94 over the next five years. that's to cover the cost of upgrading victorian age infrastructure. it was also

revealed that three water companies not including south west water, are facing a combined fine of £168 million for failings including over sewage treatment . and donald sewage treatment. and donald trump went on the attack at a campaign event in pennsylvania last night. twice telling supporters he was better looking than his election rival. his opponent, kamala harris, is planning a bus tour starting in pittsburgh today. the former president was delivering a speech focused on the economy when he asked supporters if they'd mind if he went off script. i'm a better looking person than kamala . person than kamala. >> no, i couldn't believe it, she said. you know, i had never heard that one. we're not going to let this socialist lunatic and she's a socialist lunatic. that's the other thing . please, that's the other thing. please, sir. please don't call her a lunatic, i said. but that's what she is. she's a lunatic. >> those are the latest gb news

headunes >> those are the latest gb news headlines for now. i'm sophia wenzler more in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code. >> or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . slash alerts. >> so over the last couple of weeks since the slaughter of three little girls at a southport dance class , great southport dance class, great britain has experienced a dizzying transformation into a frightened society. in which the spoken or written word can land an otherwise blameless person in prison. powerful dissident voices, predominantly on the political right, have grown noticeably quiet on twitter and facebook, frightened by headunes facebook, frightened by headlines of ordinary people being banged up for a hasty tweet or an expression of anger online. and it is this silencing, which is precisely what starmer and his blairite acolytes want of course, free

speech is complex, and the law has normally wrapped itself around the issue largely satisfactorily until now. the example often used is whether you should be allowed to shout fire in a crowded room. some say no. i say yes because people aren't stupid and they will use their other senses and awareness of heat or smoke to decide if they are in danger. but underpinning so much of the rhetoric of the last two weeks is the idea that british people are stupid and cannot be trusted to type words online in case they make other people do stupid things. labour mp jess phillips largely kicked this off this week when a gathering of muslim men amassed in her birmingham constituency, and she tweeted all day, rumours have been spread that a far right group were coming and it was done entirely to get muslim people out on the street. it is misinformation being spread to create trouble. now these local louts eventually dragged their boy racer cars and their palestinian flags around a roundabout caused a frightened

pub goers to barricade the doors and eventually beat up a customer in the pub car park. phillips could have tweeted take responsibility for your own actions, regardless of whether you feel goaded online, don't come out looking for trouble . come out looking for trouble. but that isn't fashionable anymore. gone are the days of telling people to take control of their own lives. we're now under a labour government where you can look for the states to pay you can look for the states to pay for your life and blame someone else when you inexplicably find yourself in a riot. prince harry waded in and blamed the internet for the post. southport riots. what happens online within a matter of minutes transfers to the streets, he said people are acting on information that isn't true, as though people were sat at home watching tv with a cuppa until they are gripped like a zombie by a tweet and decide to smash in the window at greggs. it is patronising nonsense and harry's idea that this is because information isn't true contains the assumption that, if

controversial facts about an aggressor or a situation are true, that would make rioting somehow okay. it is bonkers. we need to stop blaming everything on social media. it is lazy, it is thick and it is leading us towards accepting a closed society in which the narrative is dictated entirely by the state. in collaboration with a compliant media and the individual. you and me are reduced to a passive, silent, stupid object who can't be trusted to think properly. social media terrifies politicians and newspaper editors because it gives us the little people , the ability to little people, the ability to exchange information. in a world where 5 billion people use social media every day, some of it will be inaccurate . just like it will be inaccurate. just like some things in newspapers have been inaccurate for decades. but democracies rely on the ability to exchange opinions and information. we need to tell our conflicting stories so that we continue to evolve into the 21st

century, rather than retreat into a weak, ineffectual tyranny of silence. joining me now is francis hoar , public law francis hoar, public law barrister. francis, good to see you, i've just been talking about how i personally, i find it quite terrifying the last couple of weeks and the, the very firm fist with which keir starmer has been stamping out. it almost feels like quite personal to him in his role of former director of public prosecutions. he seems to be very much involved in these cases to stamp out dissent, particularly on the right. how has it appeared to you from your legal perspective? >> well, i think there are two elements. both and often it's good to see you, the first is the riots. the actual riots themselves, punishing those who have rioted and, and use the word in a non legal sense

necessarily. i mean, public disorder in general terms. and also which is, i think, connected to this, the social media, which was directly encouraging riots, for example, tweets saying get out on the streets boys and burn down the hotel. those will always be punished severely and quickly. if people plead guilty, as those who have been punished have done, that's not new. it goes back to as long as the courts have been operating, and it is necessary to show, to have a very quick reaction that stops pubuc very quick reaction that stops public disorder. it happened in 2011 and it's happened now, and it happened this happened three times in the past. that's one thing. questions will and can and should be raised about the proportionality and the extent of the sentences in due course. i'm not going to comment on those in detail, but but that's that's not what we're here to do. but the other concerning element has been the use of the pubuc element has been the use of the public safety act and the as you

say, the messaging by the government and also , the, the, government and also, the, the, suggestion by the government, which they knew would be picked up which they knew would be picked ”p by which they knew would be picked up by the media about intelligence, what might be intelligence, what might be intelligence or might not be. but we have absolutely no way of knowing, for example, saying there are going to be 100 riots on the streets tomorrow, i'm very sceptical, and i say that having spoken to a number of people who might know about this , people who might know about this, i can't say more than that, but i'm very sceptical about the truth of that, and i know that this comes from a government machine, and i say government machine, and i say government machine because of course, it predates the new government, a government machine that has experience in the last few years, as we both know, and many others , of nudging people, of others, of nudging people, of setting out messages that are not necessarily true. or certainly bending the truth in the way that they want to do so

to manage people's behaviour. >> so just to explain, because people may not know what you're referencing there. so this was the telegram group. so telegram is another social media app where people can exchange information. and on that telegram group appeared suggestion that on the wednesday night of last week, there were going to be 100 organised riots , going to be 100 organised riots, and that was then used as the catalyst for all of that build up of tension on that particular day. there's going to be 100 riots, bebe hundred riots, as it turned out, there wasn't. i, for one, didn't think there was going to be at all. i don't think there are that many people who are sat at home who want to go out and smash in police windows with a piece of four by two. i just wasn't reading the mood of the nation like that, so is your suggestion, francis, therefore, that there could have been. there could be, because we know that the organisation exists, the disinformation government unit, that they might have been some tinkering behind the scenes to provoke public

discord . discord. >> well, it's very difficult. it's important. the problem is it's impossible to know, and we can't know and we won't know for some time. but we should do, and obviously there's good reason for government departments. some government departments to be clouded in secrecy. and we don't know, for example, the number of terrorist attacks that m15 foiled. and there's good reason for that, but is there a good reason for there to be privacy and absolute government privacy about communications on telegram that may or may not have been true or the influence the government? no, i don't think so . government? no, i don't think so. so i think in due course, we should find out about that and then we'll be in a better position to comment. but it did seem to me, and as i say, i can say no more . it seemed say no more. it seemed surprising that this message was put out and was picked by so many media organisations and i understand, if i recall the chronology correctly, i'll be corrected if i'm wrong, but i understand that was the day

before there were lots of anti riots and some of those anti riots and some of those anti riots were most were mostly they were in good order. but there were, there was some public disorder on some of those as well. so yes as you say it does fit with a sort of government narrative, at the same time i as i said at the outset, i absolutely accept that the authorities need to clamp down on public disorder very hard and very fast , to avoid it spreading very fast, to avoid it spreading as it did in 2011. and it didn't this didn't spread as much as it did in 2011, 2011. >> the crown prosecution service, francis, have been, it's no exaggeration to say bragging on x formerly twitter , bragging on x formerly twitter, genuinely bragging about the number of people who have been arrested in the aftermath of the disruption that we saw in the last couple of weeks , that that last couple of weeks, that that feels unprecedented to me. and that feels like a very strong message. being sent out to the

country, which is just, be careful what you say on social media. and maybe there is some logic, a little logic to that. be careful what you say on social media, because look at this example of this young lad. i mean, we've had, you know, this idea of, of there was a lincolnshire man, as i say, who was charged under, information against the state. i think, you know , anti—establishment know, anti—establishment rhetoric. that was the phrase, forgive me, anti—establishment rhetoric . that's surely rhetoric. that's surely unprecedented in this country. >> i don't know about that, whether it's unprecedented or not, but what i what i will say firstly is that it is not unprecedented, but it is quite new for the cps to have a major media presence and to be making statements. what i saw also, and i was concerned about was the attorney general , congratulating attorney general, congratulating himself effectively on social media using the official ag website, twitter website saying, ihave

website, twitter website saying, i have approved the charging of individuals who have pleaded guilty. so to be clear, he wasn't he wasn't putting in jeopardy their fairness and the fairness of their trial. but it seems totally inappropriate to me and if not unprecedented, unprecedented until recent times for law officers to boast about what they are doing for public order, that is, for the home secretary. it's perfectly acceptable for the home secretary and the home office ministers to give rhetoric about being tough on law and order. that's what they're there for. they are political, but the law officers are not, and the cps are not. and they should not be. and another part of this is the police. i personally i understand why the police need to communicate, but i personally would be very happy if much of their communications of the police ended immediately because a lot of it is simply, as you say, bragging about their successful scalps. so yes. okay, a police twitter presence is extremely important to say . extremely important to say. we've got an unknown

perpetrator. so we're looking for somebody. we're looking for. fine. of course that's important. but a lot of what the chief constables do and what they authorise is totally wrong in my in my view. so that's one element. but that does absolutely feed into this government message and this managed message of a, a of a particular response. that is fine from the home secretary. fine. absolutely. no problem. and for the prime minister, that's their their politicians. but what they shouldn't be doing is using neutral agencies to, to spread this message. and i don't also do not think it's appropriate for the cps to be saying, if you do x and y, you will get z. that's that. again is for the home secretary to say, but the cps are a neutral, disinterested in the correct meaning of the word public prosecutor. they don't have an interest in people being convicted . they are putting convicted. they are putting forward. i used to prosecute, i did when i did crime, and i was a minister of justice and inculcated in the bar is this is

this sense with a small m, you have a duty to put forward the case in a neutral, fair minded way. you're not aiming for a conviction. you're aiming to put. ensure that the jury or the magistrates are in a position to do it. sending out these messages, even if it is after pleas of guilty and even if it is after convictions i don't think sends out the right message. and i think it's wholly wrong for these neutral public agencies to do that, because it can only be about weaponising fear against the british public. >> francis haw, good to see you as always. thank you so much for your insight. now, after the break. she won gold at the olympics, but imane khelif is now taking on elon musk. you're watching the neil oliver show with me. bev turner on

gb news. welcome back to. neil oliver

live with me. bev turner this evening. now the boxer at the centre of the olympics. gender row has launched legal action against elon musk and j.k. rowling for alleged aggravated cyber harassment. imane khelif won gold in paris, of course, in the women's boxing, won gold in paris, of course, in the women's boxing , despite the women's boxing, despite allegedly having x y chromosomes , allegedly having x y chromosomes, which means that effectively they were born male and have some male physical traits. well, joining us now is discrimination lawyer robin moira white. good afternoon robin. good to see you. right. this was a huge controversy during the olympics because it was sort of obvious that imane khelif didn't look entirely, female born. let's say she is not transgender. she considers herself to be a woman. she was raised as a girl. so what do you make of the fact that she's now looking to take legal action against the likes of elon musk and j.k. rowling,

and also donald trump, because onune and also donald trump, because online they made comments to suggest that she shouldn't be fighting against women. just just tell me what you make of the whole thing . the whole thing. >> i think from her perspective, she was called thing and she was called a man. she was called transgender, but amongst other things, she was called a cheat. now we might some people might think that the rules are regulation, are right to be looked at, and almost certainly need to be looked at in good time for the 2028 los angeles games. but imane khelif and her national association followed the rules. and i think with some dignity, she didn't engage with awful treatment of her as an individual on social media. and whatever we think about the rights and wrongs of the

particular circumstance, you know, clearing up someone's life in public like that is a very cruel thing to do. so french law, i french law takes a dim view of that . view of that. >> yeah. and do france take a dim view of that than, say, the uk or america would? i was interested to learn that they have a department, an office for the fight against crimes against humanity and hate crime. so by that title, they do take this thing more seriously than perhaps the uk or america . perhaps the uk or america. >> yes. i mean, let me just, sound a tiny note of caution plainly, and i'm i'm an england and wales lawyer, not a french lawyer. and thank you to hector, the advocate of pro se, who spent ten minutes this afternoon, educating me on french law, but in french defamation. i mean, they have criminal defamation, not just in

england. it'sjust a criminal defamation, not just in england. it's just a civil claim that you would make. but it can be a criminal claim, and it can lead to criminal convictions, fines and imprisonment in france, you might remember that there was in the in the trans area, there had been some suggestion that the first lady in france was trans and has resorted to law in terms of the people who've been spreading that particular story. so take the french state takes a slightly different view to perhaps the anglo—saxon jurisdictions. >> if this does go to court, robin, will imane khelif have to reveal anything about her chromosomal abnormalities, let's say, or her gender? because at the moment that information is private medical knowledge. and, and i think quite rightly, it should it should remain private. would that be brought into this in any way? by lawyers, maybe

acting on behalf of the likes of j.k. rowling and elon musk ? j.k. rowling and elon musk? >> well, it may be, but there also are mechanisms for protecting people's privacy. if immensely private matters have to be dealt with. and my understanding is that the accused may face some difficulties for example, where they've used the word cheat, they've used the word cheat, they would have to show that there was some breach of the law where they've described imane khelif in a particular way. they may have to show that they have justification for describing her in a particular way. and so i think it might be their difficulty rather than remains. >> do you think that somehow this has because initially there was speculation that it was transgender, that she had been born male, had somehow deliberately, transitioned or kind of said that she's a man in order to, to win the boxing. and

it became, this sort of maelstrom, didn't it, of effectively a misinformation around that particular issue. but do you understand why that's happened? why this conversation has become so inflammatory, particularly when you tie it to sport with women competing against biologically born men ? against biologically born men? >> yeah, i'm afraid i think some people weaponized the position related to the particular individual. now, i'm sure the sporting , the ioc has been in a sporting, the ioc has been in a very difficult position because it obviously had to stand the international boxing association aside, after all the corruption allegations that there were related to the aiba. so the ioc has had to stand in, a bit like a government department taking over a failing rail company, for example. so they faced a difficult situation, whether they handled it particularly well, people might have different views back to i think my, my principle comment is

whatever your views about this, there are individuals, real people involved. and to be in a situation where those real people are having their lives pulled apart very publicly on social media has to be the wrong place for that. >> the argument, of course , >> the argument, of course, would be, and this is what people were saying on social media, is that imane khelif knows that they have a physiological advantage by being born with xy chromosomes. so, and correct me if you have a different understanding of this, robin, but my understanding is that therefore in utero, their genhaua that therefore in utero, their genitalia has developed to appear female, but they won't have a uterus, they won't have ovaries. they'll have probably undescended testicles in this in this sort of biological situation, physiological makeup. and therefore she has a choice to take advantage of that physical benefit, which she does in the boxing ring. or to say, this isn't a space that i should

occupy, because i will have that physical advantage. that's the criticism that's levelled against imane khelif. >> sure. and i don't have i don't have the level of understanding of what her understanding of what her understanding at particular times was, what her history has been , how she has understood been, how she has understood herself from time to time, what advice she's had , i think that's advice she's had, i think that's the problem about i mean, i was misled at an early stage. i, i thought inevitably there's one of the differences of sexual development is called swire's syndrome. and i, i had understood that someone had clearly said that that's the difference of sexual development that she had. actually, i don't know. you don't know virtually all the people commenting don't know. and therefore i'm afraid the finger points back at the sporting authorities to have managed this in an appropriate way that deals with the proper

concerns that there are, that women's sport is protected, but that people who are on the fringes of maleness or femaleness are treated with humanity and respect. >> and i appreciate that you're not a french lawyer, and this is pretty specific. but, from from what you do know, what chances do you think she has of being successful against these very high profile people, and maybe seeing them behind bars? >> the, the, the french defamation laws are strict and strong and allows the little person to win on occasion against the strong and the mighty . and that's what we would mighty. and that's what we would hope laws would allow people to do if people, people, whoever , do if people, people, whoever, however rich they are, however powerful they are, if they've transgressed, then the little, the little man or woman should

have a right to regret, redress, and the french system does seem to offer that. >> yeah, well, it will be fascinating to watch. thank you so much for your insight. discrimination lawyer robin moira white there. right. i do thank you. ofwat right. don't go away because coming up next is professor hugh pennington . there professor hugh pennington. there is apparently an mpox outbreak. you can't call it monkeypox anymore. that was apparently too funny for you to take it seriously. we're going to be talking about that in just a moment.

good evening. welcome back to neil oliver. it's me bev turner tonight, a bit like neil. similar hair, similar views. thank you for joining similar hair, similar views. thank you forjoining us. so the thank you for joining us. so the world health organisation has declared a fresh outbreak of mpox. it's had a rebranding formerly known as monkeypox. apparently it's a global emergency. there have been almost 15,000 cases in the democratic republic of congo. there have been more than 500 people have lost their lives to monkeypox, and the variant has apparently now hit europe , with apparently now hit europe, with sweden recording one case. who chief tedros ghebreyesus has said the potential for further spread within africa is beyond and beyond is very worrying, he said. a coordinated international response is essential to stop this outbreak and save lives. now i'm joined by professor hugh pennington. good evening, professor hugh. thank you. professor. thank you so much forjoining me. right i'm being a little sceptical about how much we should be panicking about this mpox spread, how serious is it?

normally in africa, as we've heard, there's been 15,000 cases in the democratic republic of congo. how does that compare to a typical year? do you know ? a typical year? do you know? >> we don't really know because we don't bother to measure it, particularly in countries like the democratic republic of the congo, which is one of the poorest countries in the world. and we know that that mpox has been, around there for many, many years. and it actually occurs in wild animals. and you can catch it by eating sort of bushmeat, although that's not been mentioned in this particular in the context of this particular outbreak . it this particular outbreak. it also occurs in west africa and that's important because there are two different kinds of mpox. there's the one that's causing the difficulties in the in the drc for, you know, let's call them rather than democratic repubuc them rather than democratic republic of congo, drc and then in west africa, it's a milder

version. and that was the version. and that was the version that got out into, basically into men who have sex with men. and that was the way the virus was transmitted. and there was quite a big outbreak and very, very few serious cases because the one, the west african one, the one that got basically spread worldwide , is basically spread worldwide, is a much milder version than the one that normally occurs in the drc. and what's happened in the drc that it seems to have taken off and there's some evidence that there's a new sort of variant which is related to the one that normally occurs there. now and also that's also spread by sexual contact. you have to have pretty close contact to catch monkeypox. and a bit like smallpox in a way, and fortunately, just like we have a vaccine, the smallpox vaccine works against mpox. so i don't

think panic is in order at all. and even if we got cases in the uk, i think they could be coped with basically by, isolating the cases and giving, vaccinating the carers who look after these people and family members as well. and you can even be vaccinated after you've been exposed, which gives you reasonable protection . so it's reasonable protection. so it's something that one has to look out very carefully. it's bad for news the drc because the virus does seem to have taken off. and unfortunately , the deaths that unfortunately, the deaths that occurred there, well, there's nothing new about that. what's new is the number of deaths it really goes for, for young children. and it also goes for people who have, immune systems that aren't very healthy either. so of course, they have a fair amount of hiv. is, is, is a would be a problem. >> yeah. so it's so it's interesting isn't it . because we interesting isn't it. because we

tend not to eat a lot of bushmeat here in the uk. last time i was down the supermarket i didn't see the bushmeat aisle. and i suppose unless you are a like you say , a gay man who like you say, a gay man who might have multiple relationships, then we are. all of us are at very, very low risk of us are at very, very low risk of contracting this. so do you share some of my scepticism that as soon as something is labelled as soon as something is labelled as an emergency or a pandemic by the world health organisation, there are lots of people who are ready to receive billions of poundsin ready to receive billions of pounds in all sorts of convergent benefits, which might occur under this label, and that really we should just not panic about this at this time. >> i don't think we should panic in the uk. i think even if we imported cases, you know , imported cases, you know, there's been one case in reported in sweden of somebody who had been to africa and undoubtedly caught it there, and that's the situation that one would have to watch out for in

the uk. that people have been. well, i don't think many people go on holiday to the, to the drc, but there will be people who go there for, for other reasons and they're the people that have to watch out if they get these this spotty illness and so on. and clearly they have to get not just medical advice. and there are some drugs that do work not terribly well, but get themselves vaccinated, get their contacts vaccinated . and we have contacts vaccinated. and we have a pretty good system in the uk for sorting it out. i think one has to obviously bear in mind that covid, you know, took off in surprised everybody and that's that's raised our level of awareness of these, they have these nasty viruses that occur in the tropics and so on. and i suppose it's done the same at the world health organisation. it's raised their sort of, you know, yeah . level of, of, of, of know, yeah. level of, of, of, of talk about these things. it's a problem that i think the problem really, if it's going to be sorted out at all, is going to

be sorted out in the drc and the countries round about where, where there's some people have taken it to. so, you know , taken it to. so, you know, geographically close countries. but i don't think apart from people who go to the drc or there on business or on holiday should be advised very carefully about what they should do when they're there and what they should do if they fall ill, i don't think in the uk we should be worried about it at all. >> and just tell us what the symptoms are, because again, alongside some of this, what feels a little bit like fear mongering messaging about monkeypox , presumably they've monkeypox, presumably they've got a load of vaccines stockpiled because we didn't quite buy into it in the way that maybe some drug companies wanted us to. a year ago, what are the symptoms? as you say, we're seeing these pictures of hideous like, boils on people's faces. and, you know , it's faces. and, you know, it's pretty terrifying kind of imagery. if you're susceptible to that kind of thing. yes. >> the main symptoms of mpox are you feel absolutely rotten. you probably have a fever . and the probably have a fever. and the

characteristic ones, the ones in which the diagnosis would be made clinically, would be the spots which, as we've already heard, are horrible looking, boil like lesions which occur across the body, probably in some parts of the body more than in others. and but that's the actual characteristic sort of symptom of it really very, very much like smallpox. and in the olden days, long before smallpox was eradicated , monkeypox went was eradicated, monkeypox went unnoficed was eradicated, monkeypox went unnoticed because the visual symptoms were so similar, you can't really tell them apart. and even if you look inside the inside, the pox as we call them, and look for the virus, you can do it in an electron microscope. it would look exactly the same. so, the symptoms are just like smallpox, much less lethal than smallpox. smallpox used to kill. well, there were two kinds of smallpox, just as there are two kinds of pox . smallpox, just as there are two kinds of pox. but the smallpox, just as there are two kinds of pox . but the severe kinds of pox. but the severe kinds of pox. but the severe

kind of smallpox killed 20%. and this virus, the pox , is, is much this virus, the pox, is, is much less dangerous than that, particularly the west african one, rather than the one that occurs in the democratic repubuc occurs in the democratic republic of congo . republic of congo. >> okay. fascinating. thank you so much, professor hugh pennington there. well, take from that what you will right after the break. what is going on here? australian break dancer rachael gone has gone viral of course, online following her performance at the olympics. this is one of my favourite images. somebody made her into their windscreen wipers on the back of her car. we're going to be working out what is happening with this poor woman. she's now hit back and this story is not going away. don't go anywhere .

welcome back to the neal oliver show with me bev turner this evening. so you can't have missed this story about the 36 year old australian break dancer rachael gunn, known as ray gunn, who's become an absolute figure of fun after her olympic performance scored zero points from nine judges. >> hi everyone . ray gun here, i >> hi everyone. ray gun here, i just want to start by thanking all the people who have supported me. i really appreciate the positivity and i'm glad i was able to bring some joy into your lives. i didn't realise that that would also open the door to so much hate, which is frankly been pretty devastating. i really like to ask the press to please stop harassing my family. my friends. the australian breaking community and the broader street

dance community. >> so i'm joined now by online editor of the spectator australia, alexandra marshall. alexandra, thank you for joining me, i don't know about you, but when i see the reaction to rachael gunn, i don't i haven't really seen hate. i've seen a huge amount of satire. comedy shows have been doing impressions of her. she's inspired a million memes, but have you seen hate and is she right to use that word ? right to use that word? >> hate is definitely not the correct word. there has been some questions asked, shall we say , about the inclusion of say, about the inclusion of breakdancing, but not only that, but look, steven bradbury was the last time that we had an australian in the olympics. famous for not doing well. and he was, of course, the speed skater who was coming dead last until everyone else fell over. and he won a gold medal in this case, what we've got is someone who is an academic who has a phd

in breakdancing, scoring zero. so what it really is, is the clash of academia with merit and the real world. and so she has walked into a much larger conversation about our universities. and i think that's why she's getting more criticism than just funny memes. >> so the idea being that she didn't deserve to be there and somehow what somehow she got there and kind of, somehow worked the selection process so that she was selected. is she the best breakdancer there is in australia ? australia? >> okay, look, if she was just a dodgy breakdancer, that wouldn't it would be a story for all of five minutes. what's happened is everyone in australia has gone back and dug through her phd essays and things on the topic. and i've actually got a quote here for you if you want me to read why people are laughing at it, i brought it up. so one. i

won't actually read part of this article. i'll never get that part of my life back. but she said, we argue that breaking institutionalisation via the olympics will place breaking more firmly within this sports nation's hegemonic settler colonial structures that rely upon racialized and gendered hierarchies. total utter nonsense. and that's where this sort of criticism is coming from. because like you wrote this and yet you can't break dance as well as the others. >> so. so what, you mean , so >> so. so what, you mean, so she's like super woke, we might say she's she's very much tied into identity politics. and yet she's used her. i mean, is she is she even a break dancer? i know that sounds like a stupid question, but looking at the moves, i reckon after a few gin and tonics on a saturday night, i could. i could master some of those.i i could. i could master some of those. i like the kangaroo. i can do that one. like, did she qualify? >> the kangaroo is my favourite. the kangaroo is my favourite. that whole has been put onto superimposed onto the qantas plane. tails as one of the

memes. there's also like a window wipers on cars going through, which is brilliant, but there have been all these people on tiktok and instagram who are putting her breakdancing behind them, and then just giving it a go and absolutely nailing it. so it has it has got this whole you could be an olympian too, if you wanted to be vibe. none of this is hate. what it is, is mass criticism and what i have a problem with is when these people go out there, they like all the social media praise. they want as much of that attention as possible, but when it's negative, suddenly it's bullying. >> so you kind of get the feeling that maybe she's never really had anybody in her life who's just gone. do you know what, rachel? just like , maybe what, rachel? just like, maybe give it a miss because this this could have the potential for humiliation. she's she's lived in academia, where actually, it takes a lot of bravery to swim against the tide of opinion. it can seem in sometimes in academic institutions. and maybe there was nobody there to tell

her that she's going to have to grow a very, very thick, kangaroo like hide in to order cope with some of the, it's sort of satire. it's taking the mickey out of what we might say and using it as a bit of a figure of fun. as i said in the intro . intro. >> yeah. well, she's actually one of the most famous people in the world right now. a lot of people who work very hard in the media and very hard in comedy are hideously jealous of her for being the funniest thing around in basically ten years. so she should be proud of herself in that respect. look, if she had just taken it, in the good humour that it was intended , humour that it was intended, this story would have been over in five minutes. as i say, this is a larger story about academia, and i'm sure you've got the problem with academia as well over there where there are serious questions being asked about how we spend our public money in universities and whether or not some of these degrees are competing against things like the hard sciences that need to be put forward.

we've got all of our kids, their education is sliding back behind parts of the third world, and then you've got this olympic themed meets it, and everyone just goes , see, this is what we just goes, see, this is what we mean by merit versus academia. and so i think it really is basically just that conversation. she was the catalyst for it. >> well, have there been australian breakdancers on the, you know, on the news outlets there saying that should have been me, because that's the part of this story that baffles me. i think it might be a bit like the snowboarders in the winter olympics story, and the skateboarders, including in the olympic story, where i'm sure there are a huge amount of extremely talented, highly qualified people that might not pass a drug test in these kinds of sports. >> so it's a it's a bit of a new sport. it's a bit of a fringe activity that has connections to other walks of life , shall we other walks of life, shall we say. and so maybe it's just some

teething issues with the sport, but i think they've they've nixed it now so we may never know. yeah, they've ditched it. >> they've actually ditched it from the next olympics. and is that partly because of this controversy? because it wasn't taken seriously, do you think do you know, i mean, that might not be your specialism, alexandra, as to which sports make it into the olympics? >> look, i'm not going to claim any special knowledge of breakdancing , but i do think breakdancing, but i do think that the olympics had a lot of criticism levelled at it. although i do believe that the boxers in the women's boxing was a far bigger controversy. so almost instead of going and deaung almost instead of going and dealing with that problem , which dealing with that problem, which is serious, they probably went well, just deal with the, the breakdancing problem, because that's pretty to easy handle and get rid of. but, i mean, the olympics was a car crash from beginning to end. let's not pretend it was otherwise. so i'm not surprised. i'm actually a bit sad because the really, really good breakdancers if you watch some more of them are they almost do deserve to be there. that stuff is hard and it's fun to watch. they're a bit like the

gymnasts, but maybe, maybe not. australia's attempt i will own up to that. >> it makes me very nostalgic for the year 2000 and the sydney olympics, when the world was a much more simple place and it was all about higher, faster, stronger. the olympic principles of just being amazing at doing what you can do in your human body. thank you so much. so thank you for letting me be neil oliver for this evening. that's it on the telly. but if you want more of us, we of course will be on youtube. and stay tuned for the brilliant free speech nation next. i'm going to carry on this conversation. we're going to be talking more about free speech and the astonishing de—banking scandal that is continuing. so i'll see you back live on gb news monday morning at 930 for britain's newsroom. but otherwise come and see me over on youtube. see you .

soon. >> well . >> well. >> well. >> good evening. i'm sophia wenzler with your headlines at 7:00. us secretary of state antony blinken has arrived in israel to push for a ceasefire and hostage release deal in gaza. it comes as over 20 people have been killed in israeli airstrikes in gaza and lebanon. iran backed hezbollah has continued firing rockets in retaliation. it comes as israel's prime minister expressed cautious optimism about a ceasefire deal with hamas, including for the release of hostages. the militant group isn't present for the talks, but a senior officials claim there's been no progress in reaching a deal been no progress in reaching a deal. meanwhile, president biden claims he's remaining optimistic that an agreement is closer than even that an agreement is closer than ever. there are concerns that the safety of the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is

deteriorating after a drone