>> well. >> well. >> good evening. i'm sophia wenzler with your headlines at 7:00. us secretary of state antony blinken has arrived in israel to push for a ceasefire and hostage release deal in gaza. it comes as over 20 people have been killed in israeli airstrikes in gaza and lebanon. iran backed hezbollah has continued firing rockets in retaliation. it comes as israel's prime minister expressed cautious optimism about a ceasefire deal with hamas, including for the release of hostages. the militant group isn't present for the talks, but a senior officials claim there's been no progress in reaching a deal been no progress in reaching a deal. meanwhile, president biden claims he's remaining optimistic that an agreement is closer than even that an agreement is closer than ever. there are concerns that the safety of the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is deteriorating after a drone

strike there. it caused an explosion just outside the site's protected area, although no casualties have been reported. the facility, the largest of its kind in europe, has been occupied by russian soldiers since the early stages of the war. it comes as ukraine's incursion continues into russian territory. former head of counter—terrorism at the ministry of defence, major general chip chapman, says british donated equipment is helping ukraine push back vladimir putin. >> one of the things that the offensive does is establish momentum and initiative, and gives more willingness to continue to support ukraine because what you can say previously is that they were losing slowly and initially the provision of support equalised the battlefield and now at least the battlefield and now at least the momentum and initiative is with them in a tactical sense. >> in other news, the home secretary is launching a major crackdown on misogyny, saying it will be treated as a form of extremism. yvette cooper has ordered a review of the uk's

counter—extremism strategy to determine how best to tackle threats posed by harmful ideologies. the analysis will look at hatred of women as one of the ideological trends that the government says is gaining traction . official figures traction. official figures reveal almost 500 people crossed the english channel yesterday. at least nine small boats made the journey following two days of no reported migrant arrivals. it brings the total number of migrants reaching uk waters so far this year to 19,000. the home office insists it's creating a new border security command to tackle the problem . command to tackle the problem. anna, don't swim alerts been issued for a popular devon seaside town because of a sewage leak. south west water says it can't keep up with the spill, caused by a burst pipe at a nearby pumping station in exmouth. it's apologised and insists engineers are working around the clock to fix the problem. it comes after the regulator, ofwat , announced regulator, ofwat, announced water bills will rise an average

of £94 over five years to cover the cost of upgrading victorian age infrastructure. those are the latest gb news headlines for now. i'm sophia wenzler more in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone , news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com >> forward slash alerts . >> forward slash alerts. >> forward slash alerts. >> more uk citizens are imprisoned for offensive memes. lesbians are kicked out of warwickshire pride and chris packham thinks you should set yourselves on fire. this is free speech nation . welcome to free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation with me andrew doyle. this is the show where we take a look at culture, current affairs and politics. and of course we'll have all the latest on those loveable culture warriors who believe that upholding free speech is just too much of an effort. coming up on the show tonight, as citizens

are being sent to prison for offensive social media posts. i'll speak to tom slater from spiked online about the ongoing erosion of free speech in the uk. i'll also be joined by activist dia chakravarty to discuss whether children ought to be taught the value of patriotism, and a man has been imprisoned in egypt for over two years for discussing christian theology in a private facebook group. i'm going to be speaking to someone campaigning for his immediate release and of course, myself and my wonderful panel will be answering questions from this rather lovely studio audience. my comedian guests this evening are cressida wetton and bruce devlin . welcome both. and bruce devlin. welcome both. are you full of joy as ever, bruce? are you full of joy as ever, bruce.7 yes, with a tinge of bitterness. >> no, i'm not bitter at all. i just have very set opinions on things. you do.7 i'm just have very set opinions on things. you do? i'm not bitter. no, no, my life's fabulous. >> it's very set in your ways. what about you, cressida? >> bitter, but very sharp. oh, yes. >> oh, yes. a tongue so sharp you could peel a king edward quote. kate. copstick. oh that's one of your better reviews, isn't it? >> yes. okay, well, look, we've

got this lovely audience. let's let's use them to their full. we've got a question from katherine, who is katherine? hi, katherine. >> hi. what is a harmful belief? >> hi. what is a harmful belief? >> yeah, it's a really good question. this is yvette cooper's new initiative. she says she's going to crack down on people pushing harmful and hateful beliefs. does that trouble you, katherine? are you happy with that? >> it sounds orwellian. >> it sounds orwellian. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> it does. >> it does. >> it does sound a bit orwellian insofar as it's very difficult to decide what a hateful belief is, because, of course, everyone has a different opinion. yeah. well, exactly. that's interesting because also, you know, the labour party are talking about how they want to crack down on misogyny, misogyny equivalent to terrorism. but then would that mean, given the labour party's treatment of rosie duffield, would that fall into a terrorist category? i wonder? this is an interesting question. what do you think? brilliant point andrew. >> yeah. i mean, what counts as a hateful belief? i don't know, maybe the belief that yvette cooperis maybe the belief that yvette cooper is going to solve everything. that's terrible. >> that's not hateful. that's just delusional. >> but it's ridiculous, isn't

it? and as you said, the labour party have already done things that would, under these new ideas, would count as terrorism. >> but because they get to decide what counts as terrorism, they'll just absolve themselves, won't they? >> i'm disgusting. i'm really annoyed about this misogyny as terrorism thing. that is not the way to tackle the problem. yeah, we've heard time and time again from experts that young men need male role models, competent, good men. that's not getting mentioned. we're just talking about terrorism. i think that is it's about the worst thing she could do. she's just pouring fuel on the fire. >> so this is the question, bruce, isn't it? because hate is so difficult to define. everyone seems to have a different definition of what it means. >> so hate is a bit like comedy. it's really subjective. absolutely. i hate baked beans. i don't go on about it, but i do hate them. you do? so do i stand to be imprisoned for food choices? >> well, i mean, if a future government turns up who's particularly fond of baked beans, you're going to be in the gulag. >> well, that's the whole thing. which brand? >> well, it might be a heinz issue . issue. >> well, a lot of people prefer branston. >> well, heinz sounds a bit germany, doesn't it? it sounds a bit nazi to me.

>> oh, wow. wow. we're there already. yeah, well, i'm just saying maybe i'll have another wine, i don't know. >> i think it's difficult. i think because we know that across europe there's all sorts of different hate speech laws in every single country. and what we also know is that no two countries agree on what hate means. and i particularly like the new irish hate crime bill, which they're trying to push through. and that actually defines hate as hate. it says it says because it says what is hatred? it says hatred is defined as hatred of a certain class or whatever. and so this circular definition means basically you've now got on the statute books a licence to imprison anyone you want for whatever reason you want. >> it's terrifying, isn't it? you're just giving away these freedoms to you. don't even know who yet. if this is enshrined in law, then it's whoever's in next week. hopefully they'll agree with you. they might not. >> well, also, isn't hate a human emotion like you say you hate baked beans. and, you know, maybe there are people who hate each other or hate certain groups of people or whatever, you know, but there are people that i hate, but i just hate them, you know? >> i don't think about it sort of thing. they just, you know, they're on my list. yes. and

that's why you never want to be girls, it's on my list. but bruce's list is terrifying. >> i've seen it, and it goes for on pages. >> someone comes on and off. i know i'm fully aware of that. yes. she's in pencil. yeah i'm just going to tip it out when you're not looking to rummage through your clutch bag. >> and anyway. come on, it's a tote aim was to say to you. >> but yeah, there's loads of things that i hate, but i just. it's what you do with the hate. and who's yvette cooper to define what is hateful and what is not. i might hate her hair. >> you're not saying that you do. >> no, but i might. >> no, but i might. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> what are you going to do about that? well, let's find out. >> i'm going to report you. right? okay. i'm going to report you to the labour party. >> basically. essentially all this is now it's like being grassed off at school. yeah. >> i am worried about the way this labour party is, is going well. i always knew they were a bit authoritarian. but you know they're really cracking down. we're going to move on to a question now from juliet. where's juliet? hello. hi. hi where'sjuliet? hello. hi. hi >> is pride becoming a no go for lesbians? >> yeah. this is a really interesting story. this week it was warwickshire pride. now there's a lesbian group who have

basically not been allowed to have their stall. they're called the spar sisters. it's in leamington. and the reason for this is they were told that they were had posted, or some people affiliated with the group had posted transphobic, hateful messages on in a private chat, on whatsapp or perhaps social media somewhere. but again, and they've of course said we're absolutely not transphobic. we're absolutely not hateful. what probably happened is someone in that group said trans women are men or said that they don't want men in female only spaces . don't you don't want men in female only spaces. don't you think it's probably that, isn't it? >> it's highly likely the people, the spar sisters don't know that that's the case, because they've asked to see the screenshots that are so incriminating they haven't been able to see them. >> that happens a lot too, doesn't it? >> right. so whoever this person or people are that have complained, they're protected. meanwhile, the spar sisters protected belief isn't protected. >> well, there's two things here is i think if you're kicking lesbians out of pride, which happened before at cardiff, because someone was carrying a sign saying lesbians don't like penises, which i think is a fairly obvious point, but i don't think they do. no they don't. i thought that was the whole point of being a lesbian

crime. apparently >> what, you don't like a doodle? yeah. >> so this is the point, is that they're saying that that is transphobic. but lesbians , of transphobic. but lesbians, of course, aren't attracted to men who identify as women. they're attracted to women. you know, it's not it's not rocket science, is it? anyway my point here, bruce, is what's really worrying about this is i'm thinking you think about it. the spar sisters, you know, have had no evidence. so it's one of those kafkaesque things, you know, like in the trial where he's accused of something, but they never tell him what it is he's done. you know, it's a bit like that. >> but i agree with you. the fact of the matter is that the people that are being complained, why aren't you being given full information? so you can actually defend it and speak about it? why is it the case that this decision has to be made without your knowledge, and then you're labelled as something? also, i don't know the spar sisters. funnily enough, i'm never in leamington. i'm very busy, but i thought they were to do with beauty therapy. >> well, it sounds like it, doesn't it? >> it does. or it could be pedicurists, i think. >> no, i think it's to do with leamington spa. is it? i don't know, i assume so, well, i mean, i don't know anyway, but anyway, another horrific story from the world of gay rights, let's move

on to another question. roger. rogen on to another question. roger. roger, hello. hi. >> are a fifth of teenagers really disabled? >> yeah . you'd think, wouldn't >> yeah. you'd think, wouldn't you? so this is a new, study, a new survey, and it's found that 1 in 5 teenagers are technically or classified as disabled, but. but this is because of adhd, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, otherwise known as kids. being a bit naughty. >> that's my opinion, andrew. i mean, i know it's a controversial i know there are cases of adhd, aren't there? but it's not. i would be very reluctant to label somebody as disabled for having adhd. yeah. the numbers do seem to be extraordinary. >> well, you know, one of the first things i was told by the special needs specialist at the school where i taught, the first thing was that we live in an over diagnostic culture. a lot of these kids will be diagnosed with adhd because they got pushy posh parents, and that means they get away with just being really awful children. and but she also said, you know, there will be some who have problems and legitimate problems. she said most of them don't. >> well, and the ones that don't have a serious disability, which is pushy parents, well, that's the worst thing i'd be worried

about and i do have sympathy for that. >> to be fair, it's not really their fault. >> to be fair, it's not really theirfault. but >> to be fair, it's not really their fault. but yeah, it can't be the case that 1 in 5 teenagers are disabled. i mean, i don't think it is. >> believe it or not, i got my diagnosis before christmas last yeah diagnosis before christmas last year. seriously, of what? adhd? >> well, i can believe it. >> well, i can believe it. >> of you. well, i know, but there you go. i knew something was wrong. i listened to my instincts. no it was my niece that said, you have to go and get tested. i think you've got adhd. and i said, well, why do you think that? she went, you leave cupboard doors open. wow. apparently that's a problem. that's adhd. how hateful pochettino and that is adhd. so i don't see myself as disabled. i don't see myself as disabled. i see myself as fun loving. but yeah, thank god you've got adhd. >> it makes your stand up so much more waspish. >> well, that's true actually. i'm not just a nasty person . i'm not just a nasty person. >> oh, excuses, excuses. let's move on. this is peter. now where's peter? hi, pete. hi. good evening. >> are the police now discriminating against white people? >> yes, it's an interesting one. these are these three white police officers. they won a discrimination case after an employment judge ruled they were passed over for promotion because of their race. so my

understanding of this is that they, you know, they were just ruled out because of their skin colour. i thought discrimination on the basis of skin colour was something we all agreed was bad. yes. is that not right? >> well, it's my personal opinion, yes, but if there's quotas to fill, they've got to get filled, although i'm not sure that was even the case at the time, i don't think it was. ideology is just so successful that this person, a person of colour, was was promoted, i think more than one rank at a time. they really like went straight to the finish line over these white people, but how can they not see how patronising this is to ethnic minority people? >> well, i don't get me mad. >> well, i don't get me mad. >> i hate di because at the company level they always say we're really proud of this. we do di and then at the individual level, that person's got to sort of carry the burden of probably people thinking they didn't get there on their own merit. it's awful. even if they did get there on their own merit, it messes it up. >> yeah. interesting. what do you think? >> what was the job? >> what was the job? >> police. >> police. >> oh, right . okay. that's fine. >> oh, right. okay. that's fine. and was the person of colour the best person for the job?

>> i don't know, we'll never know. we'll never know because. no, i don't think it was ever even taken into account. i think these people were immediately, sort of ditched as an option on the basis of their skin colour. >> i've been overpromoted in this channel for having adhd. that's true. you have, you have. so, yeah, i'm reading the weather later. yeah, i'm excited about that. >> okay. so but the point about this is that we are moving into a world where, as cressida says, this whole di thing is effectively a kind of regressive step. you know, we used to we were getting to a point, i think, where we'd stopped treating, where no one. everyone agreed we shouldn't treat anyone differently because of skin colour, sexuality, any other element of their personality or whatever. and we've kind of reversed it, you know? i mean, does that trouble you at all or is it just me? >> well, i suppose it doesn't trouble me in terms of it can do in comedy, but you have to be very careful what you say because you could just come off as bitter sort of thing. yeah, yeah. but it is widely known in the world of comedy, not naming names that certain people have been overpromoted because they tick a box. that's exactly that. so yeah, well , even if you can't

so yeah, well, even if you can't prove that, you can prove my point that the person who gets the job can't be sure. >> that's why they got it. you can't really argue with that end of it. >> no . okay. well, okay. we're >> no. okay. well, okay. we're going to have to take a break next on free speech nation though, as citizens are being jailed for offensive social media posts, i'll speak to tom slater about the ongoing erosion of free speech in the uk

and . welcome back to free speech and. welcome back to free speech nafion and. welcome back to free speech nation . citizens are being nation. citizens are being jailed for offensive riot related social media posts, and these are very tough sentences , these are very tough sentences, one of which was for over three years. so joining us to discuss this now, i have the editor of spiked online, tom slater. tom, welcome to the show . now a lot welcome to the show. now a lot of people will say that this is all just hysteria. nothing really is happening. there's nothing to worry about here. can you give us some examples of

what's been going on? >> absolutely. so it's worth saying that the online offences are a pretty small proportion of the 600 or so charges that have been brought so far. it's about 5% from what the police have been saying. and also the vast majority of those tend to relate to people allegedly kind of inciting violence in one form or another. that's a very fraught territory in terms of how to define that. yes. but at the same time, there are these other examples which i think aren't really being talked about nearly as much, which are really to do with expressing opinions or lying or pushing misinformation on the internet. so there's one case in carlisle where a gentleman had essentially shared a series of racist memes. he's been given eight weeks in prison as a consequence of that. there is of course, the case of bernadette spofforth, who people might have been, had .already heard about this case where because she is believed to be one of the people who was originally pushing the misinformation about the southport killer being a muslim asylum seeker, she was arrested and now bailed on this new kind of false communications offence that we have under the online safety act. and there's actually

been a case last week which is completely gone under the radar, which was a 25 year old gentleman in derby who has been now convicted of that false communications offence because he made a basically a video on tiktok pretending to run away from a far right mob. so he was just attention seeking to about 700 tiktok followers. he's been given about three months in prison, so i understand that a lot of the cases people are seeing are people, you know, cheering on. if not encouraging rioting, but there are some much more clear cut cases of free speech being abridged, even if it is offensive, unpleasant speech that no one seems to want to talk about . to talk about. >> well, the second example you gave there is an interesting one, because did she not say something like, if it is true, then this is the identity of this person, this person is an asylum seeker, etc. when we get and there was another case, wasn't there, of someone who's beenin wasn't there, of someone who's been in prison for putting a something that struck me as an unpleasant thing to say with an emoji of a gun next to an emoji of an ethnic minority person . of an ethnic minority person. not a very horrible thing. i don't approve of that kind of thing , but got prison time thing, but got prison time again. so we are dealing with

existing laws being used, but a disproportionate kind of approach to actually lock people up for their free speech, aren't we? >> absolutely. and i think in those cases that you just mentioned, in the cases that we've already been talking about, this is not this is a kind of clear cut issue as far as free speech supporters are concerned. it doesn't matter how offensive these views are, it doesn't matter how spurious some of the claims are. you do not want the states to be involved in the business of defining and punishing what is hate, nor working out what is true and punishing people for pushing falsehoods. that takes you into very orwellian territory. but there's a tremendous complacency about the laws that we already have, the way in which they're being used in the wake of the riots, and a lack of appreciation that things like this set precedents that will be used again. and so whilst these might not be people who are particularly easy to defend in terms of what they're saying, you definitely do have to defend their rights for all of us, not just. >> and to what extent is this feeding into the perception that there is two tier policing, two tier justice there is two tier policing, two tierjustice system going on because we had the nick lowles was it from hope not hate,

putting out complete misinformation, putting out a tweet suggesting that muslim women were being subjected to acid attacks. completely false. completely untrue. created a lot of fear within muslim communities, which seemed needless, stirring up of fear and hatred. why is he not being arrested? >> absolutely. and that's not that. >> he should be, by the way. but why has he not been arrested? >> well, i think we i think we all know why. because there is a unfortunately, a disparity in terms of how some of these things are punished. now, it's worth saying that in some of the examples we've talked about, one, some individuals were seen to be kind of egging on or influencing the rioters. in some cases, it was that gentleman on tiktok who was kind of pretending to be a victim of the rioters. so this does go around to a certain extent, but i think it's definitely true that people who are kind of more in the kind of respectable public eye, if they accidentally share a bit of misinformation and apologise for it, it's kind of no harm done. but when a member of the public doesit but when a member of the public does it or someone who isn't as favoured, shall we say, it becomes a it becomes a big problem. and i think that this road that we're going down, particularly when it comes to misinformation, is such a brave

new for world uk state censorship. we've had all kinds of hate speech laws and even some kind of other false communications laws on the books previously, but this new one and the way it's being used, i mean, if we're going to lock people up for being fantasists on tiktok, we're going to need a lot more prisons. >> i mean, it's a crazy thing that we're getting a lot of the judges in their sentencing are saying that they are doing this to set an example to other people, which explains the disproportionate sentencing. but that strikes me as a bit of a dangerous precedent again, isn't it? absolutely. >> i mean, it's not to say that it's not to say that it's completely without precedent. insofar as we saw this in the wake of the london riots in 2011. and i think when you talk about really disproportionate sentences, it is also worth talking about some of those cases of people seeming to revel in or kind of incite violence and so on, because in each of those cases, there's always going to be a very difficult argument as to how was this intentional? was this, you know, if it's to 12 people on facebook that's different to shouting in front of a mob. but just taking as read that some punishment needs to be meted out in some cases , you've got people being cases, you've got people being given three years in prison, and

when they were just someone who was engaging in some vile attention seeking on twitter or suchlike to a few hundred followers , it's not. so. i think followers, it's not. so. i think that's something that we have seen before. in 2011. there were young men who were given four years in prison for calling for a riot that never actually took place. this thing has happened before. i think that was something that should be people should be concerned about as people should be concerned about what's going on right now. >> but, you know, my understanding is that the bar for incitement to violence in the uk has always been very high. and it strikes me that a lot of these tweets clearly don't meet the normal threshold. the normal criteria for incitement to violence has there been a relaxation of what is counted as incitement to violence? >> well, it's very hard to tell. and it's interesting because sometimes if you look at the actual charges that have been brought against them and what they actually end up being prosecuted on, it's often incitement to racial hatred as well, which is which is a more ambiguous standard. it's one that's slightly more straightforward to meet. but you're right. incitement. you know , regardless of where the know, regardless of where the law is currently, i think that if you're going to have free speech, incitement, of course, is not free speech. there's no

civilised country in the world who would allow for that. it's not a matter of speech. it's a matter of kind of being engaged in and egging on violence. but at the same time, you need to define that very, very tightly in america for instance, obviously, land of the first amendment, it means speech , amendment, it means speech, which is intended and likely to cause imminent lawless action. >> that's the brandenburg test. >> that's the brandenburg test. >> absolutely. and it's that's something that i think is worth beanng something that i think is worth bearing in mind, because it's not to say that we should go lightly on people who are, you know, see something the horror in southport and instantly start talking darkly on social media about burning mosques. this is this is disgusting behaviour by any stretch of the imagination. but we do have to be careful about getting into a situation where a moment of kind of bigoted madness lands someone in prison for three years. is that proportionate to the crime that we're talking about? and also because there is so much suppage because there is so much slippage these days between incitement to violence or incitement to violence or incitement to violence or incitement to hatred, we're quite confused as a country as to what these standards mean. and what would you say to a bad situation, i think. >> but what would you say to a critic of yours who might say, well, look, all of these people have been locked up. they strike me as wrong'uns. you know, they're saying really horrible

things. what's wrong with just locking it? it's not like decent people are being locked away. why does it matter? >> well, i think that really hits at the heart of this. and if we were talking specifically about people who aren't inciting violence, which, as we've already established, should be a crime, people who are just expressing bigoted, racist opinions. >> yeah. what's wrong with locking them up? >> i think that's a really that really gets to the heart of this, because on the one hand, it's not obvious to me at all that censorship is how you deal with these trends in society, these bigotries. i mean, everyone says, well, you need hate speech laws because otherwise the nazis will come back. infamously, weimar germany had hate speech laws, and every nazi propagandist you can think of were criminalised under that, and they used it as a propaganda exercise. they used to do cartoons of hitler with tape over his mouth. so this is a bad road to go down. if we want to tackle the underlying prejudices. but also if you really think that hate speech laws are only ever going to be limited to actual haters as we all might roughly understand it, i've got news for you. but it's already happening that people who hold actually quite commonsense views gender critical feminists, for example, have had not just a visit from the police, but they've actually been convictions. thankfully

overturned later on under the sort of legislation that we're talking about. >> well , this is to do with the >> well, this is to do with the suppage >> well, this is to do with the slippage of language, isn't it? i mean, a lot of people are being branded as far right we've seen in the riots. i think definitely some elements of far right behaviour, some people who have who have been charged multiple times in the past for similar thuggish kind of behaviour . similar thuggish kind of behaviour. and you see these people opportunistically jumping on this. but but there's also a lot of people being branded far right and everyone being thrown together as far right, when clearly i'd actually say in the majority of cases it's not accurate. so isn't that a worry as well? >> i think it is. it's also not helpful for trying to understand what these riots were as well, because as you said, it was quite clearly far right and racist elements. absolutely. but actually one of the more chilling things about it was that this was a kind of more not particularly organised, not centralised upsurge in racist violence . effectively. it was violence. effectively. it was incredibly chilling. and it was of a nature that we haven't seen before, something which does have a lot to do with how the hard right operates now. it's something which is more of a kind of network. social media phenomenon. so even if we're just trying to understand what this was, how we can challenge it, how we can tackle it in a

liberal way, then throwing labels around and also trying to demonise people who have just, you know , had views on you know, had views on immigration, multiculturalism , immigration, multiculturalism, whatever. i think that gets us into entirely the wrong space. and also it's another kind of intolerance. i mean, people aren't just going around saying people who incite violence should be locked up, as we all agree. they're going around saying that elon musk should be extradited to the uk to stand trial, that these are the farage riots because his own campaigning on the migration questions or whatever fanned the flames of what we saw in southport or hartlepool or whatever. it's quite obvious that the disgusting racism of the few is being used as a pretext to demonise quite a lot of people, potentially even silence them. and that's something we've got to be very sensitive to, i think. >> absolutely. well thanks for joining us, tom slater. really appreciate it. thank you . so appreciate it. thank you. so next on free speech nation , next on free speech nation, myself and my fantastic panel will be answering more questions from our lovely studio audience. don't go

>> for the newspapers getting you down my wife didn't divorce me that month . struggling to me that month. struggling to separate the wheat from the chaff . chaff. >> i know that it's a bit of a circus at the best of times. >> well, don't worry, headliners has got you covered. we'll take the burden of reading the day's news. and if we get depressed, who cares? it's an occupational hazard. frankly, that's headliners on gb news from 11 pm. till midnight and the p.m. till midnight and the following morning five till 6 am. on gb news. the comedy channel. nah, just kidding. britain's news channel. >> welcome to state of the nafion >> welcome to state of the nation daily plunge into the stories shaping our country. i'm jacob rees—mogg and monday to thursday we bring you the insights, the facts, the truth about how our country is being governed. because what happens in downing street matters down your street. tune to in state of the nation every monday to thursday, 8 to 9:00 only on gb

news. the people's channel, britain's news channel . britain's news channel. >> welcome back to free speech nation. later in the show i'm going to be turning agony uncle with the help of my wonderful panel with the help of my wonderful panel, cressida wetton and bruce devlin, to help you deal with your unfiltered dilemmas. so if your unfiltered dilemmas. so if you have any dilemmas, just message us at gbnews.com/yoursay and we'll help you to deal with all of your issues. and we'll help you to deal with all of your issues . right. let's all of your issues. right. let's get some more questions from this audience. we've got a question from mike. where are you? mike? hi, andrew. >> hello. hi. >> hello. hi. >> should you set yourself on fire? depending on who you bank with. >> that's an interesting way of putting it. this is, of course, the chris packham situation. did you see the what he said? what did you think about it? >> i think certain environmentalists ought to consider what they should do . consider what they should do. >> oh look it's. oh, crikey. >> oh look it's. oh, crikey. >> crikey. we're going to get in trouble now. >> but definitely not chris packham. well, it's so he was apparently at an event that was

anti—gay goose shooting grouse shooting some bird. >> anyway, he doesn't want you to shoot the birds, which is fine, i like birds, i don't want them to be shot necessarily. and he said that he would like. he suggested that if you bank with barclays, you should stick your headin barclays, you should stick your head in a bucket of petrol. set yourself on fire. actually, we've got the video. so you can see the actual the actual comment. >> but if anyone here is banking with barclays, then i suggest you stick your head in a bucket of fuel and set fire to it because you're burning our planet down and it's time to put this stuff behind us. >> so the thing is, i saw the headune >> so the thing is, i saw the headline for this news article. i can't remember which paper it was in, and it was saying, you know, chris packham incites people to set their heads on fire. chris o'shea. he's not, is he? he's joking. no he's not. like it's quite it's quite clear he's not being serious. he's not actually saying do that. >> and i like this. it's an opportunity for me to defend somebody i think is ridiculous. oh, he is ridiculous. i don't like what he says. i'm embarrassed. i liked him as a child. i think he's silly, but i

don't want yvette cooper getting involved in this. >> no, you don't want yvette cooper swooping in. >> and at the same time, we've just had that lady julie sweeney, put in prison for 15 months for a quite a violent facebook post. and to me, there's a bit of overlap here, and i don't understand why one is still working at the bbc. not that i'm saying he should get cancelled. i really don't think that. yeah, it's just all seems a bit much. >> i mean, yeah, come on. he's not being serious. i mean, look, you could you could agree or disagree or whatever. he's not being serious. like, he clearly isn't being serious. >> no, i don't think he is being serious. i think it's actually ridiculous to think that he is. and even if he was, who's going to do that? well, quite seriously, who's going to do that? and can i say one of my mortgages with barclays and i'm sticking with it because it's the lowest interest rate. >> well, yes, exactly. >> well, yes, exactly. >> so stick that in your pipe and smoke it chris packham. yeah don't you like them apples? >> the only thing i'd say that chris packham is wrong about. well, i mean, he's wrong about everything. well, there's that. yes. no, he's wrong about everything. but he did make a documentary for channel 4 about, you know, is it about time that we start breaking the law? i mean, he was basically saying he was calling for people to break

the law in the name of environmentalism. and it does feel like this double standards going on here. but they are. >> that's why they are called just stop oil. >> yeah. and they're now in prison. probably because he gave them that advice. >> so kids don't listen to chris packham. he's trouble. >> yeah i'm going to emphasise that. do not stick your head in a bucket and set yourself on fire. and don't break the law. don't join just stop oil and ignore chris packham and don't shoot grouse. i'm with him on that anyway. we're going to move on to this next question from chris. where's chris? >> hello. >> hello. >> can i finally get pregnant? >> can i finally get pregnant? >> chris? have you been trying as much as i can, but nothing's worked so far. no, i know there might be some issues there. well, this is there's a story this week. i'll explain. it's an nhs x—ray operators have been informed that they need to ask men to fill in a pregnancy status form. so, you know, they're conducting their scans, but they want to make sure that the men aren't pregnant. what do you make of that, bruce? >> well, you're a heavy drinker, so i don't think you'd be a good parent, so i don't think that. i

remember going to get my covid vaccination, and the woman was going through the questions and she went, are you currently pregnant? and i went, no. ask me, ask me, do it. ask me. i said, no, i'm not. i'm just a wee bit bloated. because it's quite a rude question, isn't it? it's very rude and i've made that mistake with people in the front. i did, i did, honestly, i did that at a gig and i'd say to a woman, i said, ma'am, i said, i don't know if someone likes cnsps i don't know if someone likes crisps or if there's an announcement. and she went, what? and i went, that's really unflattering. to i had double down. it was a horrible sundress and it made her look pregnant. i mean, i mean, this is the this is the this is the situation. >> we have bruce devlin on the show. well, what do you think about this question? i mean, you know, i think that if you work at the nhs, if you work in medicine, it might be reassuring if you understood that men cannot get pregnant. >> i'm inclined to agree. i mean, there's a lot going on here, isn't there? because there's some examples where women are in tears because they have had pregnancy problems and they don't want to be asked the question, but that's not really the point because those women

could have been pregnant. yeah i heard one suggestion. somebody said, just ask or make it clear that this, this piece of medicine is only suitable for people who are not pregnant and pushit people who are not pregnant and push it back onto the user. i mean, i kind of get it if, you know, if they didn't have the forms and everything and, you know, some people are gender non—conforming and you can't tell which sex they are necessarily, that would be fine. >> that would be fine, of course. but that's not what this is. these these people know what sex the individual is because they've got the forms. but they're asking men whether they can get. they're asking men whether they can get i they're asking men whether they can get. i mean, the mind boggles. what a waste of time. anyway, there we go. let's move on to another question. this is from anton. where's anton? hello. hello >> should prince harry apologise for slavery? so i did read about this one. this was. he's going on some kind of tour, some usual thing. and he's been asked by residents of some country in south america in colombia to apologise for slavery . was he apologise for slavery. was he responsible for slavery? >> remind me , i would say he >> remind me, i would say he wasn't. that's my personal

opinion. i know there are lots of people who think that there's intergenerational guilt and that intergenerational guilt and that in one person's ancestors owned the other person's ancestors. that's not my personal opinion. i also don't think he's able to apologise because he's not a royal anymore, is he? i mean, isn't that like a technical thing? you can't apologise for an organisation. you're not involved. >> so okay, so there's two questions there. you know, does he doesn't represent the royal family anymore because he was you know he's been shamed and shunned and all the rest of it. well voluntarily you know, he sort of made his own bed there. but in terms of apologising for something that an ancestor did, you first have to work out whether which ancestors are you talking about? can you apologise on their behalf? isn't that letting them off the hook a little bit? i mean, i don't know, how would this work? >> where it gets really complicated is who owes who what right, exactly. and if you're a mixed race person, what do you do? give yourself a tenner. how doesit do? give yourself a tenner. how does it you know who? it gets infinitely complicated. even if you wanted to do it, i don't know how you would go about it. >> yeah, that's difficult, isn't it? because, i mean, it'd be interesting to apologise for things that your ancestors did, but do we know what our ancestors did? >> he could apologise for one of

his ancestors who's still alive, princess michael of kent. she's a horrible woman in my opinion, so he could legitimately apologise. she's made very nasty comments in restaurants in new york, has she? yes, and wore some horrible brooch. it was a terrible brooch. >> yes, yes. »- >> yes, yes. >> like that woman is a bin lid. and i don't care if you're watching yvette cooper. i'm friendly with emily thornberry. she'll have your leg off. but. yeah, i think he should apologise for princess michael of kent. i would love it if prince harry went to columbia and said, i apologise for princess michael's brooch because it was just tasteless. >> i think he should definitely do that. i'd be all for that. i think that's absolutely fine. >> is it an offensive, a politically offensive brooch or just a tasteless? >> no, it's saying it was of a person, of colour. is it called blackamoor or something like that? it's blackamoor . thank that? it's blackamoor. thank you. see, i do know some stuff. thanks. stay with me, sister . thanks. stay with me, sister. ame. and she wore that when she went to meet meghan for the first time. >> i see, i see so. >> and it was in a documentary and people thought that she did it out of spite. i don't know if she did it out of spite or whatever, but it's a

well—documented incident. i see. >> so he could bring back brooches, though. do you ever wear a brooch? no i don't think ihave wear a brooch? no i don't think i have any. i can see you in a brooch. >> oh, thanks. >> oh, thanks. >> do you remember that, ehm. comedian monday night? no. right. so she used to wear a full kind of chinoiserie. very opulent print. and she would. she would make these really, really dark jokes and then she'd 9°, really dark jokes and then she'd go, have i gone too far? and then she'd go, no, my idea of going too far would be to pop a brooch on. this outfit had me in kent. >> well, let's move on now. we'll move away from the brooch chat onto a question from paul. have we got paul? >> higher easter party and she'll prance around in sexy lingerie if she wants to. >> but at the advanced age of 66, should madonna be doing this? >> okay, okay, i know that bruce is going to get very angry about this question because now you're so. 50. >> so. >> madonna just had her 66th birthday party, sir. no, i'll get to you in gets older. i will get to you in gets older. i will get to you in gets older. i will get to you in a minute. bruce calm, calm. and what i would say is . so calm, calm. and what i would say is. so madonna was wearing, a lingerie inspired outfit. we can see it there on the screen, but

it's not lingerie. it's a very tasteless, tasteful, i think. no, cressida, i'm going to come to you first, because if i. if bruce starts, he won't stop. quite right. so what do you think of people are criticising this lingerie outfit and saying it's not appropriate for 66 year old? >> i am not as familiar with her back catalogue as some of your panel back catalogue as some of your panel. but yes , i think it's panel. but yes, i think it's quite as you said. it's quite tasteful. i think it looks nice to seeing quite outrageous outfits on some ladies in this day and age. i think that's the least of our worries. good luck to her. yeah, because, i mean, i remember when she got a lot of stick for wearing leather in her 60s. >> she got stick from joan rivers as well to be fair, saying she looked like a sofa or something, but but but what do you do you think there's like, would you wear a leather basque in your 70s? >> no, i wouldn't, andrew, or how. >> now. >> oh, not now either. >> oh, not now either. >> okay, that's not me. she can do what she likes. >> okay. right. bruce i'm going to unleash you. what do you want to unleash you. what do you want to say? >> i just think it's outrageous. leave the woman alone . you don't leave the woman alone. you don't know her. don't watch her. don't

look at her. if you don't like her. and as opposed to discussing what she's wearing, why don't we discuss what she's achieved? both for women, for gay people, for, you know, various organisations and stuff and really change the entertainment industry for a lot of women. again, if you don't like it. but she she looks fantastic. >> i think she's done quite well out of people discussing what she's wearing. i don't think she's wearing. i don't think she's unhappy about that. no, but she's incredibly i think we have to focus more on like what she's wearing. >> but her, you know, she's one of the best songwriters of all time. leave madonna alone. you're a big fan. yeah, i am where does she stand in the hierarchy? i can't pick well, i know where we're going. i know, and i'm not doing it. they mean different things to me. >> i've got a voice note of you at a madonna concert screaming into the phone . yeah. into the phone. yeah. >> october. >> october. >> all right. i know bruce doesn't want to answer the question. madonna, madonna or minogue? go i can't. >> it's funny because i could give up meat before i could give up cheese. i'm very familiar , up cheese. i'm very familiar, steadfast on that. they're different beasts . they are different beasts. they are different beasts. they are

different beasts. they are different beasts. i just don't like kylie's collaboration with the blessed madonna, who's a lesbian dj. okay, it's not a great song. it's not good. >> no. what can we say? dannii minogue is lower. can we do that? >> danny again is very different. danny means something else to me. >> yeah, she's a very different kind of artist, isn't she? yeah. i use that word very loosely. >> well, you would, wouldn't you? because you're a spiteful woman. >> now, next on free speech nation, we're going to be looking at some of the stories from the world of culture with historian and broadcaster david oldroyd. bolt. so please do not anywhere

>> i'm patrick christys . every >> i'm patrick christys. every weeknight from 9:00, i bring you two hours of unmissable, explosive debate and headline grabbing interviews. what impact has that had? >> we got death threats and the bomb threat and so on. >> as time passes, she could have said, storm, you made my argument for me. >> okay, one at a time, my guests and i tackle the issues that really matter with a sharp take on every story.

>> went everywhere . >> went everywhere. >> went everywhere. >> something practical could be done, or i can become something different. >> patrick christys tonight from 9 pm. only on gb news. britain's news channel . britain's news channel. >> welcome back to free speech nation. just another reminder, later on in the show i'm going to be turning agony uncle with the help of my panel, cressida wetton and bruce devlin. we're going to be talking about your unfiltered dilemmas. so just message us at gbnews.com/yoursay. will help you deal with all of your issues. now let's take a look at some stories from the world of culture. and who better to discuss them than the historian and broadcaster david oldroyd? bolt david, welcome back to the show. always a pleasure to have you. you've been keeping an eye on the proms. why don't you fill us in? >> yeah, well, we had two interesting proms this past week. well, many interesting problems, but two of particular interest. the first on sunday night last week, was what will probably be i think, the conductor daniel barenboim. his final appearance in this country. he's 81 years old now,

suffering from an unspecified neurological condition. he looked extremely weak and frail, and throughout his conducting was more gestural than anything else. the orchestra with which he was playing was the west eastern divan orchestra, founded 25 years ago by barenboim and edward said. the american palestinian academic. and as you may know, they don't name in the concert program the players. so not to make them the subject of any reprisals either way. and i was rather expecting, as a previous west—eastern divan concerts, that there would be and particularly given the events of october the 7th last yean events of october the 7th last year, and what we've seen in london throughout the past. well, not quite year, but almost in protest . i well, not quite year, but almost in protest. i was well, not quite year, but almost in protest . i was expecting in protest. i was expecting there to be some kind of protest and was very glad to see that the only incident was one palestinian flag rolled out from a, as you would expect, a box rather than from the cheap seats dunng rather than from the cheap seats during the very last applause. otherwise, it was a delightful evening of it seemed very goodwill and cooperation. >> that is very good to know. i

mean, has there been a history of politicisation at the proms? >> yeah. for instance, when the israeli philharmonic orchestra has played and it lasted a particularly bad, the concert was disrupted throughout by people waving palestinian flags and shouting free palestine. and i really did expect there to be that as far as i could see, there was no extra security. there was nothing to stop anyone doing this. it's just that perhaps people had an outbreak of good taste inside this, which is particularly interesting given that for the last night of the proms, the bbc and the royal albert hall have also already issued a dictum that there shall be no flags allowed into the building of any contentious or potentially hateful nature. >> right? i mean, it is a shame really, because the proms, you were on the programme recently talking about how this is the thing the bbc does well and it should be about the music and it should be about the music and it should be about the music and it should be about the art, shouldn't it? >> well, to be able to see barenboim, who is one of the greatest musicians of the post—war period, and anne—sophie mutter, who's one of the greatest violinists playing together, is a privilege for anyone, and i don't think it's a place of disruption. and then another problem we had, which i

was in mixed feelings about on thursday, was a celebration of american jazz, starting with duke ellington in orchestral arrangements, and you realise just how much ellington was the soundtrack to the 40s, 50s and 60s. yes, even if you don't know the four songs that were performed, the sound of them is so familiar. and then the zodiac suite by mary lou williams, a piece written in 1945, which was, you know, it had some modern elements and some dissonances, but it was a really good piece of orchestral concert jazz, you might say. then came anthony braxton, who is a composer who really divides opinion. his pieces are not given in any specific order you are given. they're simply called composition. and then a number. and it's up to the performers to decide how they do it. you normally have to have several people directing it. some people go mad for it, some people go mad against it. and i'm afraid after hearing this piece, i was rather in the latter category, right? it made me think that this is why people don't like modern music, because it seemed to be a joke between the composer and the producer. yes, saying, you know, how come? how

far can we push this? which was a shame because the concert was given by ilan volkov, the scottish symphony and the bbc scottish symphony and the bbc scottish symphony and the bbc scottish symphony orchestra. really brilliant players trying hard, but i'm afraid i could find little music in it. >> okay , well, let's move on, >> okay, well, let's move on, because you've also seen a photographic exhibition . photographic exhibition. >> yes. so everyone who remembers the queen's gallery at buckingham palace, it's now called, as you might expect, the king's gallery. there's been a change. yes. you may have noficed change. yes. you may have noticed it. last year we did before, this is a really great little exhibition of royal photography over the past century . the earliest photograph century. the earliest photograph is a tiny photograph about three inches by two of the later queen alexandra at her wedding, or just before her wedding to the later edward the seventh. next to it is the contemporary portrait by winterhalter. so you see how photography and portraiture were at that time existing in parallel? yes. and then we come through right to then we come through right to the modern day with pictures by annie leibovitz and ranking of the king and the late queen. it could almost be subtitled royal

portraiture. why cecil beaton set the image of the royal family in the 20th century. because you see that beaton takes what was previously a rather stilted model of portraying the royal family and turns it into something akin to art. you also have some excellent photographs by, as you'd expect, antony armstrong—jones by use of karen , armstrong—jones by use of karen, and i think the real standouts are the ones that you don't expect. so there's david bailey picture of the late queen, which bnngs picture of the late queen, which brings out her humanity in a way that perhaps she wasn't altogether comfortable with. it's a very small exhibition. you can get around it in an houn you can get around it in an hour, and i think, and if you 90, hour, and i think, and if you go, you get access again to the royal gallery, the king's gallery for a year. yes. so do go see it . go see it. >> we've only got a short amount of time. so very quickly tell us about this play at the theatre royal haymarket. >> yeah, debut play by catherine moore moore, who's currently doing her phd at king's college london, about seven nazi atomic physicists locked up in a country house in the months immediately at the end of the war in europe, >> exploring the morality that

they explore between themselves they explore between themselves the morality and ethics of what if we'd got the bomb first? the crux of it is that they hear about the news of hiroshima. dufing about the news of hiroshima. during this, there are excellent performances by alan cox as werner heisenberg, heisenberg and david alan as max von laue. go see it. it's interesting. it's short. it's fun. >> got to end there. thanks so much. david oldroyd bought that play, by the way, is called farm hall at the royal haymarket. that's the end of our first hour on free speech nation. but please don't go anywhere. there's loads more still to come . there's loads more still to come. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news >> hello and welcome to your latest gb news. weather update from the met office a fine evening of weather ahead, some hazy sunshine but it will be turning cloudier from the west with rain arriving tomorrow. and that's because we've got some low pressure system out towards the west. but first of all, we do have a ridge of high pressure across most of the country and we have fairly settled conditions through sunday evening, so fairly dry and clear

for much of the country. but we do start to see that frontal system pushing into western scotland overnight, that rain turning more persistent here. and we do still have this strengthening southerly breeze arriving from the west as well . arriving from the west as well. cool though. first across the east or perhaps down into single figures in some rural spots as well , but it figures in some rural spots as well, but it will be quite a bright start to the day across eastern parts, particularly for the north—east of scotland at first. but we do have quite a lot of cloud and rain across western parts, and that will be turning more persistent as we head through the day again. some sunshine for the far east, but northern ireland very much a cloudy day with that rain becoming more persistent through the morning , becoming more persistent through the morning, wales will start to see some showery, drizzly showers moving up from the southwest, but central parts and the southeast of england will be seeing sunshine to start the day on monday, and we'll continue with that very much . east west with that very much. east west split sunshine for the far east, but very cloudy and we've got some increasing and strengthening southerly winds, and that rain will be turning

heavy as we head later on into monday. a rain warning is in force for southwest scotland. difficult driving conditions here. cool underneath this cloud and rain best into the mid teens, but still some warmth for the south east of england . by the south east of england. by tuesday, most of that rain will have cleared away much of the country still lingering on in the far north—east, and it will be a breezy day with blustery showers, particularly across parts of england, and there will be some strong winds across the far northwest of scotland too, heading into the rest of the next week, it will be staying unsettled, with particularly wet and windy weather into wednesday and windy weather into wednesday and thursday. that's all from me. bye for now. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> there's plenty more still to come on free speech nation this week, but let's get a news

update first from sophia wenzler. >> andrew thank you. good evening . i'm sophia wenzler with evening. i'm sophia wenzler with your headlines at 8:00, u.s. your headlines at 8:00, us secretary of state antony blinken has arrived in israel to push for a ceasefire and hostage release deal in gaza. it comes as over 20 people have been killed in an israeli airstrike in gaza and lebanon. iran backed hezbollah has continued firing rockets in retaliation. meanwhile, israel's prime minister expressed cautious optimism about a ceasefire deal with hamas , including for the with hamas, including for the release of hostages. the militant group isn't present for the talks, but a senior officials claimed there's been no progress in reaching a deal. meanwhile, president biden claims he's remaining optimistic that an agreement is closer than ever. that an agreement is closer than ever . there are concerns that ever. there are concerns that safety of the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is deteriorating after a drone strike. it caused an explosion

just outside the site's protected area , although no protected area, although no casualties have been reported. the facility, the largest of its kind in europe, has been occupied by russian soldiers since the early stages of the war. it comes as ukraine's incursion continues into russian territory. back in the uk, the home secretary is launching a major crackdown on misogyny, saying it will be treated as a form of extremism. yvette cooper has ordered a review of the uk's counter—extremism strategy to determine how best to tackle threats posed by harmful ideologies. the analysis will look at hatred of women as one of the ideological trends that the government says is gaining traction . official figures traction. official figures reveal almost 500 people crossed the english channel yesterday. at least nine small boats made the journey following two days of no reported migrant arrivals. it brings the total number of migrants reaching uk waters so far this year to 19,000. the home office insists it's

creating a new border security command to tackle the problem. a don't swim alert has been issued for a popular devon seaside town because of a sewage leak. south west water says it can't keep up. keep up with the spill caused by a burst pipe at a nearby pumping station in exmouth. it's apologised and insists engineers are working around the clock to fix the problem. it comes after the regulator , ofwat, announced regulator, ofwat, announced water bills will rise an average of £94 over the next five years to cover the cost of upgrading victorian age infrastructure and all the remaining ted baker stores in the uk are set to close this week, putting more than 500 jobs at risk in april. its administrators closed 15 shops and cut 245 jobs. it is now understood the fashion labels remaining 31 shops will close for the last time on tuesday, as uncertainty grows about a licensing partnership with mike ashley's retail empire. those are the latest gb

news headlines for now. i'm sophia wenzler more in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code , or go to gbnews.com the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . forward slash alerts. >> welcome back to free speech nafion >> welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. >> let's get some more questions from this very gracious studio audience. who have we got first? lee, where are you? lee, hello. >> hi , andrew. i'm just back >> hi, andrew. i'm just back from the usa, where i completely missed the comedian who courted controversy. so my question is , controversy. so my question is, should a comedian ever be cancelled? >> this is a fellow. cancelled? >> this is a fellow . you're >> this is a fellow. you're a fellow american. this is a reginald d hunter has got in trouble for a show at the edinburgh fringe. i'm sure you've been following this this week . what had happened is he'd week. what had happened is he'd made a joke about israel . two

made a joke about israel. two israeli audience members heckled dunng israeli audience members heckled during the show, saying they didn't like the joke. and then he responded. but other members of the audience started shouting abuse at the people who heckled . abuse at the people who heckled. that's my understanding. of course, it's very difficult if you're not in the room to know what really happened there. but this has gone even further, hasn't it? >> cressida. yeah. he's been pulled from a venue somewhere in scotland. giffnock. it's in a jewish area, but i personally don't think that makes any difference. although clearly it does to the venue, they're sort of being sensitive to the fact that there's a jewish population in the area. one of the things that troubles me about this. i mean, no, i don't think a comedian should ever be cancelled is that people are talking about the other audience members and their behaviour , and members and their behaviour, and somehow reginald d hunter is responsible for that. and i'm like, oh, don't fancy that. >> it's so difficult when you're not there, isn't it? but this is really i mean, i've heard so many reports about what happens in a comedy show when i've been there, and they don't mirror what i saw. so it is very, very hard, and obviously, you know , hard, and obviously, you know, we no one would excuse anti—semitism . i'm just i'm anti—semitism. i'm just i'm

always slightly wary, you know, i will always defend a comedian's right to say what they want on stage, even if i hate what they're saying, but what do you make of this situation? what do you think? >> well, i think the problem is that because two people. what is from what i've read as well, some jewish people were in the audience that thought what he'd said was very funny. so that hasn't been reported in the mainstream kind of media as well. it'sjust mainstream kind of media as well. it's just all about the people that walked out and complained. and it's like, right, okay, that's that's fine. you know? but to do that, something wasn't to your taste that doesn't mean that he's not funny or they're not funny. >> but what about though, if you say you were doing your usual back and forth with the audience and you offended someone and they stood up and night? yeah. well, exactly. every single show and they left. but then other members of the audience started shouting genuinely abusive, horrible things. how would you know that? the person leaving? how would you handle that? >> i would tell them to be quiet, and it's nothing to do with them. and just to calm down, relax sort of thing. if people want to walk out, which they have, they were wrong to. but they did. and then, you know, is the case. the biggest

thing in giffnock is they've never got over the fact. well, it was newton mearns which is neighbouring. they've never gotten over the fact they lost a whole foods to the lidl because it's a high end area and they feel as though they're impoverished. but no, i would tell an audience to just behave themselves. well, you've seen me at work. yes. you'll have a good time. i'm fine. but fair. >> i've never had a problem with people criticising comedians at all, or even saying you know, that's, you know, of course they should be able to do that. but, you know, i just i'm a bit wary you know, ijust i'm a bit wary about this sort of stuff. >> yeah, absolutely. it's not a good precedent, is it? well, it's not a precedent. this has happened loads. i don't know why i'm saying that, but my point would be as well, if you are offended easily, don't go and see a comedian. >> go and see a play that you're familiar with, the text and all that kind of stuff. seriously like don't go and see a comedian. don't be just because you're triggered by something doesn't mean there was any offence intended or you know, and i'm really tired of complainers going, no, but this is how i heard it. this is how i see it. i'm offended. it's a bit like, you know, the easiest thing anyone can say to a comedian is you're not funny, right? and you're not. but i

will end that with, in my opinion , that's the thing. you opinion, that's the thing. you know, people are so polarised and quite frankly , if anyone and quite frankly, if anyone turns up to my show, take what you get. well, yeah . you get. well, yeah. >> be warned. yeah, absolutely. be warned. when it comes to bruce. it really isn't. let's move on to a question from leo. leo. >> hello . do you think elon musk >> hello. do you think elon musk could swing the next election? leo. >> stay standing. do you think elon musk will swing the next election? >> i personally believe that social media is designed to promote things you already believe. yes. so the messages that are getting through to people are things they already believe before. >> yeah, that's an interesting point. i mean, this is off the back, of course, of elon musk and donald trump sitting down for a big long chat. this was on x, obviously, which is elon musk's platform. there's been a lot of criticism about this , a lot of criticism about this, a lot of criticism about this, a lot of criticism about this, a lot of people saying he gave him an easy ride as an interviewer. but of course it wasn't really an interview. it was more a podcast, wasn't it? and a podcast, wasn't it? and a podcast is more a conversation. it's almost like people don't know what goes on these days.

>> it's a ridiculous thing to accuse them of. yeah obviously. and at the beginning he opens it. elon musk opens it by saying people never have calm chats. they can't be themselves in an adversarial interview. so i'm just going to chat to donald. i mean, that's what he said. yeah, yeah. >> what did you listen to any of it? no, i didn't, because i'm not going to talk about it again. >> i really hate twitter at the moment for reasons i won't go into, but the fact of the matter is, how dare he say it's an impartial or friendly conversation? when you're paying 45, you know you've had to buy the conversation because you're funding them. it's at 45 million. >> you bought the website for 44 billion. >> yeah. no. but is he not funding trump's campaign by 45 million? >> he is also yes. he's come out completely. he came out supporting trump on the day of the assassination, pretty much immediately after the assassination attempt. exactly, yes. but what do you think about the idea that, you know, trump and kamala harris are obviously it feels like they're kind of neck and neck in the polls at the moment. trump always said that he won the 2016 election because of twitter, because of his presence on twitter. he's come back to twitter now, even though he'd obviously been off it for a long while. do you

think musk's support could swing it for him ? because i think that it for him? because i think that was leo's question. >> yeah, i do. >> you do you think he can make that much of a difference? >> yeah i do. >> yeah i do. >> what do you think about that? >> what do you think about that? >> well, i like leo's point about social media reinforcing what you already think, because of course, for everybody that's swung , i of course, for everybody that's swung, i don't of course, for everybody that's swung , i don't know if people swung, i don't know if people are swung by it. there's lots of people who don't like twitter at musk at the moment. yes people like bruce. no, not like bruce. you don't like it because you've been temporarily put on the naughty step. but some people don't like it because me taking my account from me, i've opened it. oh, some people don't like it. oh, some people don't like it because they think it's full of hate speech. and so on and so on. >> so i, i really don't get that argument though, because, you know, i used to see a lot more hateful stuff back in the days before musk was on it. it's not like it was a lovely fluffy. no it was always a cesspit. and it's just. and yet back then as well, satirical accounts got banned. well, satirical accounts got banned . women feminists got banned. women feminists got banned. women feminists got banned for making their point that they don't want men in their spaces. >> get any brand of pornography you want on it. so where's the balance in that ? i think he is

balance in that? i think he is a moon unit. >> i think what musk is doing is just saying, look, it's going to be a free speech platform. i'm not going to take responsibility for what people are saying, but it's very interesting that people are blaming him for. i think you're right though, kristen. i think leo is right that insofar as you know, people who hate trump and hate musk are already decided on that. and i don't think this is going to influence anyone. well, no. >> and no amount of being exposed to more trump is going to. that's not what's going to swing their opinion. >> yeah. okay. well we're going to move on. now. we've got a question from sean. hi, sean. hello. >> should jk rowling be sued? well, yes. >> so this is the athlete, isn't it? the boxer? imane khelif. do you have any views on this? >> i think it would be very interesting to watch her be sued because he can see what it's like to be destroyed in a. >> yeah . >> yeah. >> yeah. >> do you know what? i should give some context in case people don't know what's going on. so imane khelif, who won the gold in the women's boxing category. but but actually was disqualified by the international boxing association. the year before the olympics because a test revealed x olympics because a test revealed x y olympics because a test revealed x y chromosomes. now, at the

moment , x y chromosomes. now, at the moment, nobody x y chromosomes. now, at the moment , nobody knows. we have no moment, nobody knows. we have no actual confirmation whether imane khelif is male or female , imane khelif is male or female, the likelihood seems to be that khalife has an intersex condition, a dsd, which would mean that this is someone who grows up as socialised as a girl, hits male puberty, then things become clear. this happened with caster semenya, the middle distance runner who went on to win gold at rio but is a male athlete and won in the female category. so there's an issue of unfairness. but with the boxing, there's of course an issue of safety, because if you've been through male puberty, that confers huge advantages and you're punching women in the face. now, of course , j.k. rowling has raised course, j.k. rowling has raised this because she's a feminist. elon musk has raised this. imani khalife now saying the bullying and the sense of harassment from that justifies a lawsuit . i that justifies a lawsuit. i think sean is suggesting that going up against musk and rowling when it comes to suing , rowling when it comes to suing, maybe they've got some resources in their back pocket. yeah you know, i agree,

>> definitely haven't picked a smaller opponent this time. good luck. yeah, but it is. it's more complicated, isn't it? and i think rowling did refer to khalife as male. yes. which, you know, this is the first time that that rowling has done that. and i kind of think, oh, well, if that's the case, then would a lawsuit bring out the actual test results? >> because surely all of this could be put to bed overnight. if khalife just said, here are my results, this is what i am. why not? >> well, i don't know the details of what khalife is going to say, because isn't this to do with the fact that there's been this backlash and lots of bullying? and that's the complaint? yes >> but surely in a lawsuit where where khalife is alleging that they caused lots of bullying when all they were doing was stating that this individual is male , then you would have to male, then you would have to first disprove the suggestion that that correct of the gender slightly unusual case, because i think we all feel for khalife because khalife was raised as female, they didn't know about this until they got older. >> so it's a bit different from the sort of typical trans stories that we've been very different from the kind of leo thomas thing where it's just a

bloke in a woman's swimming costume. >> right. that's it's a very different kind of thing. yeah. what do you make of this, bruce? i don't know, there we go. lost for words for once, we did it. let's move on to a question from barbara. barbara, where are you? hi >> barbara was clapping for the nhs . dangerous? nhs. dangerous? >> yeah, this was a story that. yeah, it was the health ombudsman has said that it was actually dangerous to clap for the nhs during the pandemic. it would have dangerous consequences because what happened was it effectively insulated it from criticism. it sort of. but but i think, cressida, that the, the nhs was already elevated as a kind of national religion. it was already the case that criticising the nhs would get you in hot water. so i don't think they're clapping. that was merely a symptom of what was already there. >> it was a symptom. but then when people publicly declare things, they're far less likely to back off from it psychologically. right so getting everybody to come outside and say it and bash their pots and pans, very smart move. yeah

>> but do you think it was that calculated or was it just that people were trying to be supportive in difficult times, you know, is it a bit cynical to say that this was this was planned so that we could ring fence the nhs from further criticism? >> i don't know if it was planned, but the original question was, was it dangerous? yes. yeah. whether it was intended or not, i would have thought if the nhs didn't want much criticism, they shouldn't have put out all those tiktok videos of people dancing. great idea, because you know, that looks like you've got time on your hands. yeah, i'm absolutely with you. >> yeah. what do you make of this, bruce? do you clap for the nhs? >> sorry. >> sorry. >> did you clap for the nhs? >> did you clap for the nhs? >> i can't really remember a lot of lockdown. i was quite drunk, so you probably did bash a few pots and pans together. i don't know if that's a euphemism and i'm not to prepared answer. but no, i think clapping can be dangerous, particularly if brittle bones. >> that's absolutely true, i don't think that's quite the point. but yeah, i think i think there is an element to that. you've got to look after your wrists. >> well, a man should never have weak wrists, andrew as well, you know. and we want those hands moisturised. >> do you think that the nhs should be criticised ? yeah.

should be criticised? yeah. well, yeah, everything should be. everything should be up for criticism. >> this is ridiculous. i don't understand like i understand it's important and you know, i great or whatever. but i do see the hero worship thing. it's funny actually when i was in gigs, going back to being hateful and i'd meet people and we work for the nhs and i was like, what do you do? i'm an admin, so you've saved no lives and you've still got your 10% off in morrisons. get out of my sight. >> well, you know, this is the thing. i mean, the nhs, i think it should be criticised insofar as you know, there are shortfalls. there is a lot of bureaucracy that goes on there. there's a lot of wasted money and if you care about something, shouldn't you criticise it all the more because you want it to get better? i'm very for the nhs, i'm very pro. the idea of a national health service, i think it's wonderful that if you're sick in this country and you've got no money, you can still get support. i actually think that's really important, but i also think that the idea that it shouldn't be criticised is absurd. yeah, exactly. >> if you've got a dear friend and you want to tell them some fashion advice or improve their life in some way, why did you point at bruce when you said that, james? well, that's a way of showing love, isn't it? as

you just said, you're exactly right. i think if we can't criticise the nhs, that's a very bad state. >> it sounds like cressida is about to stage an intervention. >> i'm not taking fashion advice from either of you. >> well, i think that's fair. i think that's absolutely fair. okay, well we're going to move on next on free speech nation. are we no longer teaching children to love britain? i'm going to be joined by activist dia chakravarty to discuss that hot potato. please don't go

>> hi there. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm going to take a second to tell you all about my show dewbs& co we start off with the issues of the day. we then bnngin the issues of the day. we then bring in both sides of the arguments. we get rid of the disrespect and then you throw me into the mix and trust me, i'll tell it exactly how it is. and then of course, the magic ingredient you at home, we mix it all together. and what have we got? in my opinion , the best we got? in my opinion, the best debate show in town monday to friday, 6 to 7 on gb news, britain's news channel >> join me camilla tominey for a

frank and honest discussion with those in power that cuts through the spin and gets to the heart of the issues shaping our nation. you haven't confirmed that you want to stand as leader, but you haven't ruled it out either. this report basically says that he's not fit to stand trial. is he indecisive? incompetent i deliver the dose of reality. westminster needs. that's the camilla tominey show at 9.30 every sunday on gb news. the people's channel, britain's news channel. >> welcome back to free speech nafion >> welcome back to free speech nation with me andrew doyle. now are we? no longer children teaching children to love britain ? journalist dia britain? journalist dia chakravarty says in a recent telegraph article that she finds it baffling that there is no effort to instil in our children a love for the country and that patriotism is viewed as either deeply embarrassing or downright sinister. well, i'm delighted to say that dia chakravarty is

joining me right now. welcome to the show. thank you very much. >> so, dear, very interesting article in the telegraph. >> where do you think this problem comes from? >> it's hard for me to tell, really, because i'm a first generation immigrant. so i think sometimes i see this country through the lens of an outsider , through the lens of an outsider, perhaps. and if i compare it to some of the other countries in the world, not just the us, but also my part of the world, south asia, where for love one's country is something that you kind of automatically feel within yourself. it's just the way you're brought up. i think you you think of it as an extension of your family. i think so it's not frowned upon to talk about loving your country. now, when i moved here and i kind of fell in love with this country and decided to settle here, and whenever i tried to talk about it, i seemed to attract a lot of either abuse or ridicule. and this it's baffling to me. i don't quite understand this. >> has it come from a sense of mistrust that there are some thuggish types, far right types,

who will fly the saint george's flag while they're behaving in, let's say, anti—social ways. do you think that has tarnished the general image? >> that's that may well be the case, but it seems strange to me that a lot of other sort of nationalism, not even patriotism, because i think, like all i understand, there's a difference between patriotism and nationalism. i believe in that distinction. but a lot of other nationalism is quite actively promoted here. you know, it's fine to be a welsh nationalist. it's fine to be a scottish nationalist. but if you talk about britain as a as a kind place, a loving place, a good, inclusive place to bring up a family which i'm choosing to do, i wouldn't want to bring up my family any other in any other country in the world, i've just always faced a lot of backlash. i just find this quite, quite baffling. it seems to me quite a sort of a, an almost an ironic example of british exceptionalism, to think that no one in the world has had a worse past or worse history than the brits themselves. >> well, that's a very interesting point that you make, because a lot of this is rooted

in the past and the idea of empire. and, you know, obviously there were, there was terrible behaviour within the empire. there was the massacre at amritsar, that kind of thing, not necessarily reflective of the empire as a whole. but have we reached a point where now the consensus seems to be empire bad , consensus seems to be empire bad, nationalism therefore bad. and it's kind of it's become very reductive, i suppose. >> yeah. so, so i suppose as a sort of an aspiring middle class mother, if you feel quite competitive about putting a little bit of guilt in your child because that's the that's the sort of norm these days, right? you know, if you're not bringing your child up with a little bit of guilt for being british, you're not doing it right now. i don't quite understand at what point i introduce into my children a little bit of guilt for having a past in there from their mother's side, where you know, even as as late as sort of early 19005, even as as late as sort of early 1900s, we were burning brides back in india. that's a pretty horrific thing to do. yes, that's part of my past as well. that does not mean that i can't feel any pride in my, say, indian subcontinental heritage, which i do . i feel immense pride which i do. i feel immense pride in it. this is who i am. but

that doesn't mean that i'm blind to what is, what was, what was bad in my past. you know, there will be terrible bits of my history , but i might educate my history, but i might educate my children about it. but do i just write the whole thing off? >> so how do we do that in an educational context? i mean, you're talking about dealing with children, teaching them about the past, the good and the bad. sure. but then how do you instil patriotism? because a lot of people would say, but that is taking an ideological stance in the classroom. we shouldn't be doing anything like that. >> it's a good question, and i'm not a teacher. i don't feel that ihave not a teacher. i don't feel that i have i have the understanding of the challenges that one faces in a classroom. when you're trying to instil a sort of an abstract idea in your classroom, in your students . but what in your students. but what i would say is perhaps don't actively promote hatred for your own country. and i think i find that quite strange. so i've given an example in my article when on a on a bbc tv programme, i had said that this is by and large a very kind country, which is why i choose to live here, which is why. and on twitter i got this horrific, horrific, but

also ridiculous abuse along the lines of, you know, how dare you call us kind, you absolute scumbag . i mean, where is this scumbag. i mean, where is this coming from? you know , we you coming from? you know, we you know, we you may not be proud of everything in your past. who is which country is? i think it does suggest a very serious lack of understanding of how other countries have developed as well. >> it's fascinating, isn't it, that a lot of people want to do the country down, even though study after study shows that the uk is one of the most progressive open countries in the world, one of the least racist countries in the world, you would think people would be quite pleased about that, rather than sort of trying to skew this and suggest that because racism still exists, which of course, it does, that that necessarily means that this is a racist hellhole , right? hellhole, right? >> i mean, exactly, and i do feel that a slightly more serious point is that if you don't instil a love of your own country in your children, if you don't make them feel as though they are the custodians of what is good about this country, then who's going to look after that, that, that, that whatever good that, that, that whatever good that there is? and what do your

children grow up thinking? they are custodians of what fills inside them the void, the need to belong. you know, what is it? and in my in my experience or in my analysis, i think it's the it's always the, the ideologies that shout the loudest that then can fill that void and become something quite toxic, you know, and that's what i worry about with to do with the future of my own children. >> and do you think that this sort of divisive climate that we're experiencing at the moment, that can be put to down this? i mean, there are a lot of people who have moved here and have not necessarily integrated because they don't think it's a good country for them or they perceive it to be for there to be a lot of negative attitudes. so do you think that's part of the problem? >> so i think for some people it would be quite an easy solution. you know, get rid of all the immigrants who are coming here and not not integrating . you and not not integrating. you know, integrating is a big a big problem. immigration is a big problem, okay. even if we accept that and we can accept that there are elements of truth to that. but what i find worrying is that a lot of children who present themselves as white, i

mean, i don't really understand this ideology. i don't know what the right language is, but let's say native people who were born here, british white people. but i see a lot of negativity in those children as well. so what what i found really upsetting is when the two youngsters, you know, the 20 year olds who threw tomato soup at, i think it was the sunflowers for van gogh were actually at national gallery. well, that's my children's inheritance, too. you're just destroying that in the name of saving the planet. and you're doing that in the name of being anti—racist or whatever, or certainly the name of inclusivity. so it's to say to someone like myself that, oh, you know, we've got your back because we hate everything about our past, because we want you to feel more included in our society. we are taking over my own children's inheritance as well, because they are british and the whole thing seems really skewed. i can't get my head around it. >> it's very interesting. some of the reactions you've had onune of the reactions you've had online about this sort of thing. it feels a little bit patronising as well, to suggest that anyone who is of an ethnic minority should feel a certain way about the country, or should reject the notion of patriotism.

>> most certainly. i mean, there was a report not so long ago. i think national trust was looking into it where they said that, you know, ethnic minority like myself apparently felt unwelcome in the countryside because of its white values. now, you know, do these people really think that i've come into a country which i know to be about 80%? i think whites still in this country, do i really feel uncomfortable walking into a room because it's full of white people? i mean , it's just so people? i mean, it's just so divisive and it's so dangerous. a lot of us are bringing up mixed race children these days. now, i think kemi badenoch has written a nice article today about, you know, they're constantly asking you to choose sides, and that's not good. that's not a positive thing to bnng that's not a positive thing to bring your children up with. >> yeah, it's not good if one parent is perceived as the oppressor and the other as the oppressed, that's not great. okay, well, dear chakrabarti, thanks ever so much for joining me. really appreciate it. and next on free speech nation, a father who was jailed in egypt for discussing theology with christian converts in a facebook group, is now on hunger strike. i'm going to be speaking to an

activist campaigning for immediate release. please don't anywhere.

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. now, this is a very serious story . abdul baqi sayed abdo, story. abdul baqi sayed abdo, a father of five who has been imprisoned for two and a half years in egypt for his involvement with a facebook page which aims to support those converting from islam to christianity. he's declared a hunger strike. this is a very serious story and to discuss it, i'm joined now by lois mcclatchy miller, who is the senior legal communications officer for the alliance defending freedom international. welcome to the show . this is going to sound show. this is going to sound quite shocking to a lot of people. the idea that someone would be arrested, prosecuted for talking about converting to christianity in egypt , what's christianity in egypt, what's the background? >> well, all week in the western

media, we've been asking, are people overreacting about censorship laws, about social media prosecutions ? well, this media prosecutions? well, this is the hard face of censorship. this is why we campaign for free speech. abdul baqi is a father of five. he actually fled his home in yemen because he was a refugee, fearing persecution because he had converted to christianity. he was living in egypt. he was involved in a private facebook group to discuss theology apologetics for those who had converted to christianity. little did he know that in this refuge of egypt, he would soon be arrested and not even prosecuted, not tried . for even prosecuted, not tried. for the last two and a half years, he has just simply been detained in an egyptian jail for two and a half years. >> so my understanding was that the, egypt was not at the levels of theocracy as, say, saudi arabia. and the idea i know that apostasy is, let's say, frowned uponin apostasy is, let's say, frowned upon in islam, well, that's putting it mildly , is that the putting it mildly, is that the reason why he's being treated this way? >> this really exposes the treatment of christians in the

middle east who suffer under these blasphemy laws, who are told that they cannot express their christian faith. christians are the most persecuted group around the world. and now abdo, in an act of desperation, has had to turn to a hunger strike. he wrote a heartbreaking letter to his wife last week declaring the strike. he asked her to tell the un. he asked her to tell the un because he needed some human rights body to help. now we know because we've discussed it many times, that western institutions like the united nations have been increasingly moving towards support of censorship, have even affirmed. last year, in a resolution that blasphemy should that blasphemers should be held to account. this is the time. this is the time for the west to stand up to and be pro free speech pro—human rights . this is speech pro—human rights. this is where the un should come into its own and fight for abdu'l—baha's release. fight for his safety and fight so that no other person should be held in a jail simply for a facebook post. >> now, is it the case that he is a convert ? is that the he is

is a convert? is that the he is a convert to christianity? >> that's right. >> that's right. >> the issue from the authorities perspective. >> that's right. >> that's right. >> but of course this is a matter of freedom. not just free speech, but actual freedom. yeah and of course this has wider implications for, you know, i've been very disturbed recently about people being very lax about people being very lax about the way in which people in the uk are being prosecuted for various facebook posts, but this is where it leads, isn't it? this is we can see this playing out, there are other issues going on at the moment in the uk, which you've been talking about. do you want to. >> yeah, absolutely. >> yeah, absolutely. >> no. we can see the parallels here. we have extreme blasphemy laws in the middle east, in nonh laws in the middle east, in north africa, but in europe we have hate speech laws which aren't prosecuted to the same extent but still prevent people from blaspheming against the dominant beliefs of the day. and in the uk only this week we saw headunes in the uk only this week we saw headlines that labour will enforce or are considering tightening legislation on buffer zones around abortion clinics , zones around abortion clinics, making it labelling it a criminal offence to pray silently in one's head. now what everyone believes about abortion, what everyone thinks

about what's best for women. in that scenario, we can all agree that scenario, we can all agree that nobody should be prosecuted for the prayers they hold in their head. george orwell would shudder if he saw this as an overused term orwellian. but indeed, we are in a situation where we have the thought police in the streets of the united kingdom, policing christian thought. >> so why is this happening? i mean, you would have thought that people looking abroad and seeing this, you mentioned the un. why would anyone say that blasphemy laws anywhere should be upheld? is it because people feel guilty about judging another culture? is that part of it? >> that could well be the case and i think with christianity, we're very used to in the west, seeing them as someone that we can kind of censor and put aside some. it used to be the most dominant, thought that used to be the most dominant idea. and therefore maybe we feel that it doesn't need to protected so much, but when we see what is happening to christians around the world, we see that in fact, this group need protected more than most. and if they depher international, we represent christians across europe who are being prosecuted right now for their beliefs. we have a grandmother and a politician in finland who is set to face the

supreme court simply for tweeting a bible verse in 2019, and we see this time and time again . we can't allow this again. we can't allow this culture to fester in the west because of the example that it sets on the international stage. if we're not upholding free speech, if we're not upholding freedom of religion , nobody else will. >> and i spoke to a member of your group about that particular case with the finnish politician who had tweeted a bible verse. my understanding is that she herself had voted in parliament for the very hate speech law that was used against him. >> is that right? >> is that right? >> that's right. at the time that it was proposed, nobody could have possibly thought that this was what it was going to be used for. it was marketed as something against very severe racism, which we all disagree with. and of course, paivi rasanen as a christian politician, thought that this at the time was the right thing to do, not for seeing that this language that is used is so vague and ambiguous that it is now applied to basically any opinion that the government decides is so—called hate speech. >> well, isn't that proof of what we've been all warning aboutin what we've been all warning about in the uk, saying if we allow these hate speech laws to come in in ireland, in scotland

and potentially under a labour government in england, that what this will mean is those laws will be used for things that we didn't anticipate in the future. oh absolutely. >> and the language that they use is so expansive. if we think of the buffer zones, that legislation censoring thought on the streets around abortion clinics that bans influencing, that can mean a whole range of different things. even the concept of hate speech has never been truly defined. nobody knows what hate speech is, and that's a problem we see cropping up in scotland and ireland and all of these places. if we cannot know what is illegal to say, people will be chilled into silence, scared to say anything at all. >> so what can people in the west do to help this gentleman in egypt? >> firstly raise awareness of this story . >> firstly raise awareness of this story. call out on social media. share the story. share the links on adf international's website. we need public attention, public pressure in order to show the egyptian government that they must release abdo. they must release him safely so that he can get the medical attention that he desperately needs. the world's eyes must be on egypt right now in order to save this man, but also to save the concept of free

speech and freedom of religion. >> lois mcclatchey miller, thank you ever so much for joining >> lois mcclatchey miller, thank you ever so much forjoining us. thank you. thank you. well, next on free speech nation, we're going to be looking at this week's social sensations. what's been going viral on the internet. don't go away

>> good afternoon britain . your >> good afternoon britain. your lunchtime update on the stories that matter across the uk, from breaking news and insightful analysis, inspiring stories and lively debates. you're comparing yourself to a former prime minister. which is it? stay informed. stay updated. stay entertained. i just don't know how anyone would not want to be there every weekday from midday we are. good afternoon britain only on gb. news, britain's news channel. way, way . channel. way, way. >> join me nana akua for an informative interactive news programme with a difference. it's fun, it's true . you're not

it's fun, it's true. you're not wrong . no one will be cancelled. wrong. no one will be cancelled. lovely. join me from 3 pm. every weekend. only on gb news. britain's news channel . britain's news channel. >> welcome back to free speech nafion >> welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. it isfime nation with me, andrew doyle. it is time for social sensations. that's the part of the show where we look at what's been going viral this week on social media. and first up, we have this video just notice your placard saying refugees welcome here. >> i'm just wondering if you'd like to go down on the list saying you're willing to take the refugees into your home. of course, >> the only problem is i rent. >> the only problem is i rent. >> you rent? yeah. maybe an issue. >> yeah, because they've got. >> yeah, because they've got. >> well, well, if i had any space, i would. >> you had any space. it wouldn't be a nice place to bnng wouldn't be a nice place to bring them because it's a bit overcrowded. right. yes. sorry rental. yeah. yeah. you can't do it. yeah. someone else's job? yeah. yeah. no. >> i'm sorry, i can't. >> you can't take one i don't have, i don't have, i don't

have, i don't have, i don't have the space i mean but luckily there's all those millionaires with their big houses and i'm sure they're taking in a lot, aren't they. >> yes. they're all going to gary lineker's house. yeah. >> well, plenty of crisps. >> well, plenty of crisps. >> well, plenty of crisps. >> well, exactly. >> well, exactly. >> so they won't starve. so i mean that's obviously going to happenisnt mean that's obviously going to happen isn't it. yeah. you know a bit of fun. >> they should have gone along with it for credit for points. maybe he didn't use those people. >> do you think though, that in that video there were some people who did say yes, but you just edited them out? >> well, i wonder, i wonder, i'd love to know, but it's a big ask, actually. >> just bringing someone into your house who you don't know. >> yes, yes it is. >> i mean, it's bad enough when relatives visit, isn't it? you know. what do you think, bruce? >> yeah. i don't like people. but my point would be right. if you're on that kind of campaign or march, then you should immediately be going. yeah, i don't care. you know, i'll get them in. the person in scotland that said they would have refugees staying with them was nicola sturgeon. where does she. the campervan . the campervan. >> did she really say that. >> did she really say that. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> no absolutely. she said she and she lives in a five bedroom

detached property in baillieston , detached property in baillieston, just outside glasgow, near a very big morrisons. >> oh, so there's plenty of room and there's good access for the shops. >> absolutely. and her husband's tiny. yeah. >> so they don't need scuttles around and yeah, they could, they don't need the space at all. >> no, no. >> no, no. >> does he really scuttle around? >> does he really scuttle around? >> i don't want to talk about it. >> okay. let's move it. — >> okay. let's move on. it. >> okay. let's move on. now. do you remember this? this was the australian breakdancer from the olympics called ray gun, whose performance received both ridicule and praise for her rather unique style. it also gives us all hope that we could compete in the 2028 los angeles olympics. well, anyway, a lot of people have decided to mock her performance. people are very cruel, aren't they? but let's have a look at some of her people's attempts at parody . people's attempts at parody. boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boopi boop boop boop boop boop boop boop i mean, you know, i support

all artistic endeavours, so i think, you know, for good her for doing it. i actually thought she was trolling as well a bit, wasn't she? i mean, quite possibly. >> yeah. i saw somebody sharing her video and they said when my five year old niece says, watch this. yeah which i thought was pretty funny. >> but the thing is like, is it possible it was a joke because, you know, she's doing the kind of interpretive dance that you saw chris lilley do or one of his characters. do you know? >> yeah, it was very chris lilley esque, actually. yeah, maybe, maybe it was all a big hoax. i don't want to sound ignorant, but yeah, maybe. >> well, if it wasn't bruce. i mean, is it really fair to mock her? she, you know, she put herself out there, you know, you've got to have some sympathy with that. >> well, my point about it is if it has been so upsetting for her with the backlash, stop engaging about it then. i used to break dance when i was much younger. no you didn't. >> no, i don't believe this for a second. >> no, i was like a twink when i was growing up. and i used to break dance in dundee with my cousin george on the other side. yeah, i was obsessed. i can still do it. no, no. go on. the floor is yours. no, no no no, i'm not wearing. could you do

that pan? could you do that sort of spinning on the head thing. that was my big thing. the egg roll. yeah. >> oh my god. like they're doing the run—d.m.c. video. >> yeah, i can do the caterpillar. like i can catapult. oh, well, still, you've got to show us. surely no health and safety. >> there is a health and safety issue. actually, to be fair, can you break down, hold your wine? no i can't, you didn't. because you see, i did ballet so you could do your spinning on the head. >> of course you did. yeah >> of course you did. yeah >> and i could do the changement, you know, and we can see who wins in a street step. >> ball change. yeah, absolutely. >> i think that sounds like fun. did you do a, you know, a song? no i don't, well, i'll show you. i want to i could do a march 2nd as well. i do stop flirting. i do a fabulous mange to anyway. are you a dancer as well? >> well, it was a bit, but not like that. no no, you've got to stay. >> stay in your lane . right. >> stay in your lane. right. this is. this is our thing, right? okay, let's move on. so we have some unfiltered dilemmas. and i'm always very grateful for people sending them in. and we always solve your problems every week sort of. we got dilemma coming from amy. amy

says i've been with my boyfriend for three years, and i've told him that if he doesn't propose at some point in the next two years, we're over. he didn't take this very well. am i being reasonable? that's a question we often see on mumsnet. am i being reasonable or is five years too long to wait for a proposal ? long to wait for a proposal? >> bruce a woman does not have time. re the biological clock ticking, as we know from this young lady in the front. so i completely agree. when i speak to audience members and i'm like, oh hi, you two a couple? yeah, i'm a couple. how long have you been together? six years. are you engaged? no yes. >> but don't you think that it's a bit pushy. i mean i would have thought. no but bruce. no i really don't but hear me out. i mean the thing is if you're in a relationship with someone and it starts to feel a bit like a pressure cooker, it starts to feel like that, you know, it's all happening a bit too fast. doesn't that drive people away, particularly young men? >> i wouldn't know about young men because i'm age appropriate, but i'd like some people. but no no no no no no no. the fact of

the matter, how long have they been together? 2 or 3 years. >> yeah. that's what she was saying. >> right. okay. you would need to know where this was going. i'm sorry. do you not agree to two years keeping very quiet? >> yes, you're probably right. thank you a bit. for women. very good. you know what would happen if all the women, if all the women got up on the same day and said, right, two years is the limit. we're not having it anymore. then they'd have to march to the beat of our drum. but it doesn't work like that. >> no, but i would have thought that two years is still quite early on. you're still kind of sounding each other out. i don't think you get to know someone until about five years in. that's my feeling about it, possibly. >> you know, it's going to be a shock when i get to know you, isn't it? >> five minutes in my case? >> five minutes in my case? >> well, those are different kind of relationships, bruce. so, you know, not quite the same thing. okay, well, look, we've got another dilemma. this one came in from alex. thank you. alex, i am moving flat in the middle of next month. and the current flatmates want me to pay two weeks rent, which sounds fair, but i'm actually out of the country for ten of those. 14 of those days. do i fight this or swallow it for future flatmate relations? fight? no,

wait a minute , bruce. i don't wait a minute, bruce. i don't think because. hold on a minute. surely you have to pay for the space that you are hiring irrespective of whether you are there or not. >> surely. but i think a fight would be a good thing. >> all right. okay, so you think just fight anyway. just for the sake of it. yeah. >> and where are they going anyway? >> well, i don't know. it's not very clear on the details. >> no, exactly. we don't even know if it's a man. >> we don't. we don't. >> we don't. we don't. >> would that alter your opinion? >> christina. what's your opinion on this? >> no. they've got to pay the rent. they can't expect the housemates to pay for their houday housemates to pay for their holiday madness. >> yeah, so you're quite. you're taking a hard line on this. yes i am. >> oh, wow. but two years. okay, fine. well, you know, you know who your friends are. >> well, look, we're all about different opinions on this show, you know, let's keep it cordial. let's move on to this next dilemma. this comes in from trevor, which i think is a good name. trevor. yeah. not enough. >> trevor's as far as i can. i call my niece trevor. really? yeah. does she thank you for her name? >> not a name. no. sure it isn't. so trevor says this. trevor says i am going away with my other halves. my other halves? no, my other halves. family next month, i thought. i

thought you meant he had more than one other half. i understand polyamorous her sister has young children and obviously wants to do child friendly activities, all of which i find very boring. how do i get out of it? as as many of these without without seeming rude? well, i mean, that's an interesting one because ultimately, if you're going away and there are children there, you sort of have to go along with that, don't you? i mean, that's sort of part of it. i would have thought. >> i think they should have sent this message before they made the decision to go on the holiday. shouldn't they? they've made their bed now. >> so the decision, the decision has already been made. that's the implication. trevor's already decided he's going. he's going away, he's going, it's going. but also that's a difficult conversation to have. is to say, you know, you can't say i won't go away unless we leave the kids or leave them in a kennel, or how about they just try and be reasonable and they say, okay, kitty thing. >> one day we go to soft play. the next night, poker and strip club. let's be fair, yes, but then the kids wouldn't enjoy that, would they? >> you know who's looking after the kids when they go to the poker and strip club? >> yes. well, nobody. the kids are going with them. that's what i'm saying. get them to compromise. obviously. >> don't do that now, bruce, have you ever found yourself in

this kind of situation for going on holiday, potentially with children and having to entertain them as well as do the things that you want to do? no, no, no, i didn't think so. somehow can you give us some advice to trevor? what would you think he should do? >> i think he should not go. really? yeah, because i don't think he's going to enjoy it, you know. >> but there are holidays you can go to which have things like centre parcs, i don't know, but it doesn't centre parcs have a thing where you can, you can throw the children into that. >> what is it? put them into a pool >> what is it? put them into a pool, watch them drown. no, they have on the wave machine and hope for the best. >> they have those ball pools and things and you can leave. you can leave the children there. and i think they have strip clubs at centre parcs, don't they? and changing rooms. yeah, that's what i mean. so i think there are holidays that you can choose. i don't think there has to be a big drama about it. a bit of both. >> yeah, that sounds very, very balanced. >> so what have we decided with trevor. what's what was the solution there? >> i think trevor should maybe not have a drink before he makes a decision ever again. yeah, i think he's done the wrong thing. >> i think that's some advice that you could take as well, bruce. that's nice, isn't it? >> lovely. moving on. >> lovely. moving on. >> okay, well , that is >> okay, well, that is unfortunately all we've got time for on that lovely note. but

thank you ever so much for joining for us free speech nation. this was the week when a comedian got in trouble at the edinburgh fringe, and man was imprisoned in egypt for discussing christianity and quite a few people were imprisoned in the uk for being too offensive online. some troubling stuff coming up in the future. thanks so much to my panel future. thanks so much to my panel. cressida watson and bruce devlin and if anyone was offended by bruce, well, that's just the way it goes. it's bruce, isn't it? >> and to all someone's written that no, i will have their job to. >> anyway, thank you to all of my brilliant guests this evening. everyone's been absolutely fantastic. by the way, if you want to join us live in the studio, if you want to be part of our lovely studio audience, that's dead easy. you just go to sro audiences .com that's on the screen right now. you can come along. there's wine, there's beer, there's vollevens, there's snacks . it's vollevens, there's snacks. it's a lot of fun. stay tuned because ben leo tonight is on in just one moment. and please don't forget that we've got headliners tonight at 11:00. and indeed, every night at 11:00. let me remind you that headliners is the nightly paper preview show

where comedians take you through the next day's news story. bruce devlin does it quite a lot . devlin does it quite a lot. cressida wetton does it quite a lot, and so do i. bruce, are you on that tonight? no. oh okay. well never mind. it'll be someone. it'll be someone funny. stephen allen is on and josh howie is on. okay. well thanks ever so much forjoining us. ever so much for joining us. please do join us next week for free speech nation. thanks a lot. farewell for now . lot. farewell for now. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers. sponsors of weather on gb news. >> hello and welcome to your latest gb news weather update from the met office. a fine evening of weather ahead. some hazy sunshine, but it will be turning cloudier from the west with rain arriving tomorrow. and that's because we've got some low pressure system out towards the west. but first of all, we

do have a ridge of high pressure across most of the country and we have fairly settled conditions through sunday evening. so fairly dry and clear for much of the country . but we for much of the country. but we do start to see that frontal system pushing into western scotland overnight, that rain turning more persistent here. and we do still have this strengthening southerly breeze arriving from the west as well. cool though. first across the east or perhaps down into single figures in some rural spots as well, but it will be quite a bright start to the day across eastern parts , particularly for eastern parts, particularly for the north—east of scotland. at first. but we do have quite a lot of cloud and rain across western parts, and that will be turning more persistent as we head through the day. again, some sunshine for the far east, but northern ireland are very much a cloudy day with that rain becoming more persistent through the morning. wales will start to see some showery drizzly showers moving up from the southwest, but central parts and the southeast of england will be seeing sunshine to start the day on monday, and we'll continue with that very much east west split sunshine for the far east,

but very cloudy and we've got some increasing and strengthening southerly winds, and that rain will be turning heavy as we head later on into monday. a rain warning is in force for south—west scotland. difficult driving conditions here. cool underneath this cloud and rain. best into the mid teens, but still some warmth for the south east of england . by the south east of england. by tuesday, most of that rain will have cleared away much of the country still lingering on in the far north—east, and it'll be a breezy day with blustery showers, particularly across parts of england. and there'll be some strong winds across the far northwest of scotland too. heading into the rest of the next week, it will be staying unsettled with particularly wet and windy weather into wednesday and windy weather into wednesday and thursday. that's all from me. bye for now. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather

gb news. >> it's 9:00 pm. gb news. >> it's 9:00pm. i'm gb news. >> it's 9:00 pm. i'm ben leo. >> it's 9:00pm. i'm ben leo. >> tonight priority and the first step is to set up the new border security command. and to increase our law enforcement. >> labour promised to smash the gangs with a fancy new border security command. so why is the rebranded home office unit still without a boss? more than 40 days after they won power , days after they won power, meanwhile, it's revealed a migrant who tried killing a commuter by pushing him onto tube tracks in london was appealing deportation from britain despite committing a string of crimes here. so just what exactly do you have to do to be deported from the uk ? to be deported from the uk? >> and astrazeneca vaccine is safe. the experts are telling us that it's safe , and i would urge that it's safe, and i would urge everybody who's invited to come forward to have the he told you, the covid vaccine was safe and effective. >> so why are 14,000 people now applying for compensation from the government's vaccine damage payment scheme? and is starmer

guilty of spreading