question. do we ask you a simple question. do we need a youth mobility scheme with the eu.7 yes need a youth mobility scheme with the eu? yes or no and a wealth tax on your home? should there be one? let's look at it. also, a story that literally stopped me in my tracks today. a convicted child rapist is avoiding going to prison where he should be, according to one judge, because you guessed it, overcrowding, well , maybe if you overcrowding, well, maybe if you stop putting people in prisons because of facebook posts and the like, you might be able to lock up the people who really do need us, need it in order to keep us safe. your thoughts? all that and more with tom berwick and ben habib till seven. but first. >> good evening. it's 601. i'm cameron walker here in the newsroom, and we have some breaking to news bring you. a romanian court has decided

internet personality andrew tate should be placed under house arrest. prosecutors have requested that tate be detained for 30 more days after he was among six people taken into custody in an investigation into human trafficking and sexual exploitation . in other news, exploitation. in other news, figures showed shown gb news revealed that the number of visas issued to work dependants was down 50% between april and june this year compared to the previous three months. three 35,603 work dependent visas were handed out in the last quarter, compared to 71,583 between january and march. that's a fall of over 35,000. the bbc presenter and ex—footballer jermaine jenas has been sacked from presenting the one show and match of the day after alleged complaints about his behaviour. jenas was reportedly removed from the prime time bbc one programmes following an internal investigation by the corporation. a bbc spokesperson said we can confirm that he no

longer is part of the presenting line—up . meanwhile, his agency, line—up. meanwhile, his agency, mick saatchi, is no longer representing him. the family of morgan stanley international bank chairman jonathan bloom and his wife judy, have described them as incredible people and an inspiration to many following their deaths in the sinking of a luxury yacht in sicily. tributes have also been paid to mick lynch after the tech moguls death was confirmed today. they were all among six people confirmed to have lost their lives. another body was recovered from the wreck this morning and brought to shore as rescue efforts to locate a missing sixth person continues. the italian coastguard confirms she is a woman. mike lynch's 18 year old daughter, hannah, was among those unaccounted for after the disaster . among those unaccounted for after the disaster. police are hunting for up to three dogs on the loose, which are believed to have attacked a man found dead in the back garden of a property in the back garden of a property in birmingham, west midlands. police were called to rubery, on the outskirts of birmingham in the outskirts of birmingham in the early hours of yesterday after reports that a number of dogs were loose. officers say

the 33 year old man, who was looking after his brother's dogs, was found dead in hereford close yesterday with bite marks. two dogs were seized by police at the scene, which are both believed to be american bulldogs. but the breeds of the missing dogs are unknown . a drug missing dogs are unknown. a drug found to slow down alzheimer's has been given the green light for use in britain , but it may for use in britain, but it may not be rolled out on the nhs because it costs too much. the charity alzheimer's research uk has urged the health secretary to step in, warning it would only be available to those who could afford to pay for it privately. the national institute for health and care excellence , which provides excellence, which provides national health advice, says the benefits are too small to justify the costs . well, those justify the costs. well, those are the latest news headlines for now. i'm cameron walker. now it's back to michelle for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gb news. >> com forward slash alerts .

>> com forward slash alerts. >> com forward slash alerts. >> thank you very much for that, cameron and michelle dewberry. and i'm keeping you company until 7:00 alongside me. my panel i've got ben habib , the panel i've got ben habib, the former deputy leader of reform uk and tom buick , the visiting uk and tom buick, the visiting professor of education at the university of staffordshire. good evening, gents, to both of you. you're very welcome tonight, given that you are a professor of education, then it would be remiss of me to not mention gcse results day. >> yeah, another bumper year for students in england, wales and northern ireland, so congratulations to them. i understand sir keir starmer's son is one of them. so remember it's not about the qualifications or the grades. it's about what you do with them. >> any words of wisdom, ben habib for anyone that's got their grades today. >> tom has stolen the show with that line. it's what you do with your grades. absolutely right. >> what you do with your grades. i'm. by the way, i will just add the other side of it. i did absolutely terribly in mine. quite frankly, i've got to say, on reflection, i do wish that i

tried. perhaps a little bit harder, but i guess my key message is if your kids or grandkids or whatever didn't get the results that they need today, worry not. life is full of twists and turns. you never know what is around the corner. you can proceed and you can succeed on all different paths. so whatever you're experiencing today, do it with purpose and positivity. that's what i say anyway , you are all very welcome anyway, you are all very welcome tonight. it's not just about us andifs tonight. it's not just about us and it's not just about gcses. there's lots i want to talk to you guys about. you can get in touch with me all the usual ways. you can get in touch on email gb views @gbnews. com or you can tweet or text me. or of course you can go to the website gbnews.com/yoursay and you can talk to us there. now lots. i want to talk to you about immigration and so on and so forth. but before i do a story caught my eye. it stopped me in my tracks. ladies and gents. so it did. we talk about prison, don't we? a lot. and there's many people that have, you know, the courage to use social media these days that tiptoe around , these days that tiptoe around, terrified that they might end up

in prison if they say the wrong thing? well, this story came out, about three hours ago. i think it was a convicted child rapist. yes, you heard that right . he is rapist. yes, you heard that right. he is avoided going to jail. according to one judge, she says it would have been virtually inevitable that you would have gone into custody. why did he not go into custody? ladies and gents ? because of ladies and gents? because of overcrowding. i've got to be clear. this guy received initially a suspended sentence. it had terms and conditions attached. he wasn't allowed to, for example, go on holiday without alerting the authorities and so on. and so forth. he just did it anyway. off he went on his jollies. and that was a breach of his t's and c's. and inside he should have been . inside he should have been. apparently, according to his lawyer, his terrified of custody. really? well, guess what? don't go around raping children there, my friend. >> i'm absolutely amazed that he wasn't given a custodial sentence immediately. why he had any leeway to go on holiday with or without notice. but having broken the terms of his right to

go on holiday, it sounds almost an absurd thing to be saying, but having breached those terms, he should have been thrown straight in jail. you know, we've seen. >> yeah, but the reason he isn't, and this is what makes me angry today, because there are some absolute wrong uns roaming around the streets and there's people that are on licence or whatever. we need to have prison capacity for those people to make sure that if they're doing wrong, they're behind bars and society is safe. we are prioritising the locking up of people for their thoughts, for their words on social media and so on. and so forth. have we got our priorities right? >> well, no, we haven't. and i've said this before on gb news and i'll say it again, i think the prime minister is guilty of politicising the criminal justice system, politicising the riots , politicising what people riots, politicising what people are saying online in order effectively to give to implement his own political ideology, which in my view is basically open borders. and he's managed

to classify anyone who wants to bnng to classify anyone who wants to bring rampant immigration down to manageable figures as far right. and the only motive that i can see in doing that is to discredit their position. and he's successfully done it. >> tom buick , let's be clear. >> tom buick, let's be clear. this is about child sexual exploitation and a criminal who should never have been given a non—custodial sentence. i think the judge who handed out this non—custodial sentence, in my view, should hang his head in shame. this is a terrible day for british justice in this country. and i do hope, michelle, that the lady chief justice, who is in charge of the judiciary in england and wales, baroness carr, looks at this case and issues fresh guidance. i don't think operation early dawn should ever have been used or should be used to let out or or should be used to let out or or prevent serious criminals, and that includes child abusers. >> yeah, and it just irritates me. can you tell i'm irritated today? it just irritates me when ihear today? it just irritates me when i hear these interviews about,

oh, you know, if you've been on the streets doing wrong and i don't condone people on the streets doing wrong, we will send you to prison and you might end up in a prison. hundreds of miles away from your home. but worry not, we'll get you. you have all these tweets from people like the cps and all of these politicians, almost like clapping and high fiving themselves because they've locked someone up for hurty words, or chucking a coke can or whatever. and then you've got people like this walking the streets . honestly, i think it's streets. honestly, i think it's absolutely disgusting. you have some thoughts , i'm sure. get in some thoughts, i'm sure. get in touch and tell me. but of course, the big story of the day the figures on immigration have been released. did you see them? i've got to say they were. they've come down legal. this is legal migration i'm talking about. they've actually come down based on where they were last year, but they're still double what they were in 2019. >> they're still absolutely massive. >> i'm going to play james cleverly in a second, because i think we all need to take a seat and hear from him. >> but before i do ben habib, well, i'm staggered that anyone

is claiming anything good about these figures . 1.2 million these figures. 1.2 million people came to the uk in the in the year to 30th june 2024. that's only down by 50 or 100,000 from last year. but these figures are massive . when these figures are massive. when you think that the population of this country is 68 million and in the last five years, in the last five years, we've had 5 million people. gross come to the uk. they quote the net figure, but actually they need to look at the growth figure. when you're looking at the impact on society, the net figure is relevant for economic impact. but the gross figure is it has a serious impact on the culture and the way we interact in our communities and so on. and you've got to look at both of them. and the gross figures are completely out of control, >> let me play you a masterclass in modesty if you would like james cleverly, we have seen applications reduce. >> we have seen the grant rate come down. we have seen the removals increase. small boat numbers come down, illegal

arrivals come down. this is what i achieved when i was home secretary because i made the difficult decisions. and sadly, what we have seen since labour have taken over is that they are reversing a number of those decisions. they are easing the visa restrictions that i put in place. wow >> tom buick, well, i just think, as you say, we've got a masterclass there in the sort of performative nonsense that we saw from 14 years of a conservative government. i mean, the fact is over that 14 years they promised to bring net migration down and didn't achieve that. we've had control of our borders , our legal of our borders, our legal borders, since we came out of the european union in 2020. the previous conservative government could have put in place a proper managed points based immigration system where they linked immigration to what i would like to see, which is a skills strategy where we get enough apprenticeships that we pay our social care workers a proper rate and that we only turn to

the tap of overseas migration to fill those high skilled jobs like coders and engineers and senior construction workers . senior construction workers. because we're a growing economy, that's where the last government failed in its duty, i think. and whilst, of course it's good to see the overall net figures on a downward trajectory , i'm always downward trajectory, i'm always going to be someone that makes the case for why we do need legal migration. immigration is a good thing, in my view. in this country, the number of people who die compared to the number of babies that were born in this country last year is within about 1000 additional babies over the number of people that died. in other words, we're a stagnating population in terms of our growth. the number of people over the age of 75 is already at nearly 10% of our population. but that's not quite double in the next 30 years, the population of the country was around 60 million. >> in the year 2000, it's now 68 million. all of that is through immigration. so what you're seeing is a massive demographic

and ethnic shift in the composition of the of the british people. i'm not sure your numbers are right. >> i'm not denying that there hasn't been unprecedented population growth. what i'm talking about is in terms of the labour market and how employers have been allowed for too many years to get away with going overseas to recruit three and four of every job that has been created since the lockdowns ended has gone to overseas, which is outrageous. we have 5 million people of working age who are in active people at home. >> what did you just say? three out of four? >> what of the new jobs, additional jobs that have been created since the end of the pandemic have gone to overseas workers? in other words, what we've got in this country is a broken that's appalling labour. well, yeah it is. we have a broken labour market where effectively employers look overseas to fill these vacancies and what they are not doing. and this is where i'm afraid our skill system is also at fault.

we have not in this country until recently, and the yvette cooperis until recently, and the yvette cooper is making some very encouraging words and sounds about this in terms of skills england and linking our skills strategy in this country to migration. we should be, for example, looking at the 900,000 young people under the age of 25 who are not in education, employment or training and saying, why are they not in quality apprenticeships? why are they not in our social care settings? the government is the employer in the national health service. we trained 7000 qualified doctors, a year that come into our nhs, but we go overseas and we recruit 12,000 doctors a year because we're bleeding doctors to foreign countries . countries are from countries. countries are from red list countries, so we're not paying red list countries, so we're not paying for their training. they're needed back in their home country. this is what i'm saying. it's a broken labour market, a broken skills system. and what this government's got to do is link our migration policy points based system with the domestic skills policy system. and we haven't done that so far. >> yeah, i completely agree .

>> yeah, i completely agree. we've got a broken i mean, i think one of the biggest damaging economic impacts that the conservatives have left us with is a broken labour market. because if the uk isn't literally working, we cannot prosper. and we've ended up in this downward spiral, which tom was articulating of relying on cheap imported labour, which of course makes it even more difficult to get the british working class back into work. because when you've got an oversupply of cheap labour, employers will go for that over a domestically more, more expensive, you know, british citizen and it makes it impossible for wages to rise. and if wages don't rise, people go on dependency. and if people go on dependency. and if people go on dependency. and if people go on on benefits and become dependent, the state spends more money paying for their benefits and the state then has to tax us more, which makes it even less aspirational to less advantageous to work . more advantageous to work. more people go on benefits and you end up in the vicious circle in

which we have found the british economy, where where it actually it's become a choice, a lifestyle choice between whether you work for a very low wages or you work for a very low wages or you take benefits. >> so, you see, i don't mean to be harsh, but i think if you are, because i believe in the welfare state, and i believe that if you ask someone who physically cannot support yourself, whether that's because of health issues or i don't know, you're caring or whatever it is, so you physically you cannot go to work right? >> then the welfare state should be there to support you. i think it is such a twisted logic that you can be an able bodied, able minded individual that has the ability to work, but then you're facilitated to choose not to, and you can be supported by the taxpayer. i find that so ideologically wrong, but now that has been embedded in society for a very long time now, i don't think you'll change that mindset. >> welfare state back in the 40s was not set up as a means of

giving people a lifestyle outside of the productive economy, in fact, the opposite. and you know, all the research studies show that there's nothing particularly nice about living on benefits. you know, people have poorer health. you get into intergenerational poverty , the kids are on free poverty, the kids are on free school meals. so i don't go along with this narrative, michel, that it's a it's a lifestyle choice for too many people. >> well, then i would say to you, i tell you what, it is more and meet different people. then i can think of people. and i won't name you in case you're watching. listen. >> but like you, i'm from a council estate background. i understand, but you know, i will say this to you and i've been looking. i've just completed a book chapter on this. if you look at our male employment rate in this country, it was 92% in the 1970s. the vast majority of able bodied working men went out to work and pulled a wage packet. at the end of the week. it has declined by 20%. meanwhile female participation, which is a good news story compared to the 1970s that's gone up by nearly 15%. in other words, what we've got is a

labour supply problem in this country. it's why, by the way, the treasury conspires with big business and employers because it's addicted to cheap labour. it's like the casino wants to keep the wheel going round by essentially just expanding the labour supply. meanwhile, what we're doing is we're not activating the resource that we have in our own country, which is these 5 million people who are inactive for a while. >> i think it's more like six, by the way. but i think the dependency culture is now embedded in the united kingdom . embedded in the united kingdom. and what the conservative government has successfully done is replace aspiration with dependency. and all we've done is practice wealth redistribution for the last 14 years. you talked about a growing economy. we haven't got a growing economy per capita. our economy per capita has been shrinking for the last two and a half years. >> we are 26th in the world in terms of our per capita growth. we're obviously the sixth richest economy by nominal gdp. and again, that's a nuance that a lot of people don't quite understand. but we're all poorer. >> we're all poorer. >> we're all poorer. >> incomes have stagnated in the

last 20 years. but what i will say to you when you talk about dependency culture, it's not just dependency of those on benefits. we've got far too many employers that rely on working tax credits to subsidise low pay, tax credits to subsidise low pay, low wages. we've got far too many landlords because we haven't been building the houses who depend on on a £24 billion housing benefit bill that goes into the pockets of mainly private and social landlords, which is about to be increased by labour, which is about to be increased by labour. what i'm saying is this is what we mean by a broken labour market and a broken economy. we're paying in this country too often for the bills of economic and social failure. rather than looking at the productive capacity of our economy and incentivising workers, businesses. absolutely. regions and people to get the country going. >> so we have to slash immigration and we need to cut taxes on the working and middle classes. >> it's the type of immigration we have to slash. well, we have to slash it from 1.2 million a yeah to slash it from 1.2 million a year. my goodness, it's got to come down dramatically. we've

got to make ourselves self—sufficient. >> i've got to say as well, you mentioned, you know, we need immigration because of birth rates, declining birth rates and stuff like that. they'd be very sensible, responsible people watching this programme who will be shouting at their screen going, well, hold on a second. i can only afford to have one child, so it's not because of a choice, it's not because of whatever. it's because of financial restrictions. of course, you've got the other side of the fence where people don't be financially responsible for themselves, and they don't seem to have such restrictions in how many children they have. amanda, she says , michelle, amanda, she says, michelle, please can you give a shout out to my daughter lily ? she's to my daughter lily? she's passed her exams, she suffers with anxiety and adhd, but just a few weeks before exams, she sat in her room and she practised paper after paper and she went from a predicted grade of 1 to 4, all by herself. and amanda says she is very, very proud. well good for you. those are the nice stories we want to hear. are the nice stories we want to hear . we'll give a shout out to hear. we'll give a shout out to your children, anyone or grandchildren that have got decent or even. it's not even about decent. any, shout outs for your kids or grandkids. you

can tell me. and we'll do that tonight. but look, after the break, let's talk about the youth then. do you think we need a youth mobility scheme between the eu and the uk? your thoughts

hello everyone. michelle dewberry with you till seven. ben habib and tom berwick remain alongside me. one of my viewers has just got in touch. andi. he makes an interesting point on twitter. he says, michelle, i'm watching you all talk about employment on the tv as we speak. he says, but what about the tens of thousands of people like me? he says, people the wrong side of 55. he's basically saying that there's a lot of ageism. that's preventing older people in the workforce from getting back into work. is that your experience? get in touch and give me your thoughts. let's talk about the other end of the spectrum, though, the young, because there's rumours afoot

that there might be some, desire shall we say, to integrate ourselves, slightly more closer with the eu. our talk specifically about a youth mobility scheme, which would essentially see people under 30. so you just miss out. i'm afraid. ben habib, whether or not they should be able to be free to live and work in the eu and vice versa. i have to say, there's been some strong denial that this is a plan. take a listen to this. >> is the government considering an eu mobility scheme for those under 30? as we have said multiple times, we have no plans to introduce an eu youth mobility scheme. >> a very strong denial there. i'll leave it up to you guys to work out whether or not i believe that. do you believe that? >> no, i don't believe. >> no, i don't believe. >> i mean, i think this government is ideologically committed to taking us as close as possible to the eu, and if they could get away with it, they'd take us back in and they'd take us back in and they'd give up our currency. they'd give up our borders to

freedom of movement, and they'd give up self—governance. and that's why i say that people like starmer, who are so enamoured by the eu, are basically anti—british, because basically anti —british, because if basically anti—british, because if you give up your currency, your borders and your governance, what are you? you're not standing up for british, for the united kingdom, are you? >> well, then, do you think we should have such a scheme that the young. >> sorry, i moved on from the scheme. i mean, no, i don't i mean, look, we have arrangements with canada and new zealand which are similar, you know, and, but it's done with visas with canada and new zealand. there's no risk of them wishing to govern our country. and to, you know, have their the, their boot on our neck. but with the eu, we're dealing with a mercantilist , expansionist, semi mercantilist, expansionist, semi imperial power. we've got to be very careful what we do with the eu. the eu is no friend of the united kingdom .we've seen that united kingdom. we've seen that over the last few years as we tried to implement a democratic vote of the british people, they have stood in opposition to us. they've said the price of

brexit, the price of your temerity to leave the eu will be northern ireland. they've forced successive governments to take the knee to eu regulations. we can't treat the eu as if it's some kind of benign neighbour. the eu is antipathetic to our country and it's high time our politicians stood up to it . politicians stood up to it. >> ben, you're such an isolationist. i mean, we both share a background in voting the eu out of controlling. >> i'm not an isolationist. >> i'm not an isolationist. >> money and trade . well, in >> money and trade. well, in that tirade you came across as one look i think let's get some facts into this conversation. first of all, this isn't a proposal of the british government. it's actually a proposal that ursula von der lie—in tactically made in april of this year , just obviously of this year, just obviously before the general election. it was a pretty gold plated proposal. and i think there are people watching this and listening to this on radio who will say, hold on a minute, wasn't it michel barnier back in 2016, the eu flag there. there you go. you know wasn't it michel barnier back in 2016 who

said no cherry picking . this is said no cherry picking. this is the eu cherry picking our labour market. one of the proposals from von der leyen for example, pulling us back in tom moore. well pulling us back in on terms that meet their needs as a political class in europe. so as i say, one of the things they want to get out of us is to give eu students the home fees, student rate, when our universities are already struggling with the 9500 pounds they charge for our domestic students. if that had been uprated with inflation, it would be about £13,000 a year for tuition fees and they want it to be a four year scheme, whereas we all know if you stay in this country for four years, 28 year old comes here on a youth mobility scheme . i would support mobility scheme. i would support that. three years in, they have a baby on the fourth year. >> they're not leaving. >> they're not leaving. >> they're not going to be sent home. whether or not the visa itself is terminated. so in my view, as it's currently proposed by the eu, not by the british government, this is freedom of movement by the back door. however, for those of our young people, i've benefited from

working in spain over the summer. i bet there are other people watching this who've had that kind of experience. i would not want to deny that opportunity to our under 30 year olds, who might want to go for a yean olds, who might want to go for a year, or maybe they're a travelling performer there have been issues around those people, for example, getting access to the eu. maybe it's over a winter and you're working at a skiing resort. british young people should get that opportunity, but it should be on terms that work for us. so it should be a cap scheme. in my view, it should be only one year and importantly, a youth mobility scheme does not give you access to our higher education fees system. you should pay the rate, the going rate that everybody else pays. who comes from outside. >> but i thought you could still go and work in the eu. if you've got like a job offer or your work permit or whatever, i thought you could go and work there. >> yeah, you can get a work visa. i mean, we're a third country now to these eu countries. and of course we have been talking. i think, to germany and spain about introducing a similar scheme to new zealand and canada. it is a visa scheme about what brexit

and how you've robbed the young people of their futures. >> i think you do realise you can still travel to europe, you can still travel to europe, you can still travel to europe, you can still go and work in europe, you can go and marry a european, you can go and marry a european, you can go and marry a european, you can do what you want, quite frankly. but we just have kind of frameworks around that. now you can, but there have been examples, for example, literally one man and one woman bands who want to go and perform in paris or berlin or somewhere else, and they can't go and do that because they don't have the paperwork that needs to be completed in order to do that, for just a one off gig, it might forjust a one off gig, it might be fine. >> you do the paperwork then. summer. yeah, i do the paperwork. >> i think you can look at ways of, as i say, this is about mobility. >> we're making it a little bit archewell. >> we've got to rejoin the eu or thereabouts because someone can't afford it. >> but to be fair, and i think it's really important we don't mislead viewers here. michel, this isn't about rejoining the eu. it's not even about freedom of movement. however, i think the way in which the eu is proposing the scheme, frankly. come on, pull, pull the other one. >> but, tom. but tom, you do

agree that starmer is an ardent unreformed europhile, that he wishes to take us as close to the eu as possible, if not back into it. >> you do agree with that, don't you? >> well, i have to agree with it, ben, because i left the labor party after 27 years, because keir starmer joined the people's vote and called for a second referendum and turned his nose up at 5 million labour voters. that is a fact that is . voters. that is a fact that is. >> so we've got to watch this government very carefully, watch them carefully. >> but we also do have a prime minister who has made it a red line that we're not joining the eu. we're not going back into the single market, which includes freedom of movement. and we're not joining the customs union, except he was caught on camera in montreal when he thought the camera wasn't on him, saying, i will augn wasn't on him, saying, i will align the uk as closely as possible to the eu. well, that's a fact of life, as you well know, as someone who has campaigned hard against the irish sea border and the windsor framework, the truth is, because of that framework , you know this of that framework, you know this better than most. we are aligned already with a lot of single market rules. >> well, boris johnson, boris

johnson never gave us brexit because we have this choice in great britain. >> we can either diverge from northern ireland or we can stay close to eu rules even though we don't have to, in order to ensure that trade is unfettered. >> well, that's i mean, that's the grappling hook. >> that's the keir starmer, that's boris johnson and that's the grappling hook of the northern ireland protocol. >> and that's why the protocol is damaging to the entire united kingdom, not just northern ireland. anyone listening vote against the protocol at every opportunity. >> jess, she's watching and she says, actually, michelle, a youth mobility scheme sounds like a good idea to her. she says, let's be honest, young people didn't support brexit, so why not allow them to now work, live and love in different countries? i don't think there's any rules saying you can't love someone from a different country. i've just got to add that in there, ian says michelle, the british youth, can you tell them that travel is good for the soul? they go past your message on there. ian michael, says michelle, it's time for another referendum. the country leaves. the country

looks very different, michael says, to what it did in 2016. you just got mass groans there. michael i've got to put you might have heard that i think that again. well i don't know many of you at home obviously michael's one of them. is there anyone else out there that thinks that we should have a second referendum or not, matt says as everyone forgot, we seem to have some kind of population crisis, and it's only going to make the problem worse. kizzy, you've just been in touch as well on twitter, bringing this back to the workforce conversation we were just having, you were saying, about people bashing employers. she means you , tom, about people means you, tom, about people bashing employers, saying that all of these employers are addicted to having their wage employees wages topped up by things like universal credit. she says. i've got employees on universal credit and i would love them to work for more. they're great employees, but they don't want no listen to what they say. this person i'm assuming you're a woman, but i

don't know, you then said they don't know, you then said they don't want to work extra hours. why don't they want to work extra hours ? because they will extra hours? because they will lose their benefits and this cannot be right. there's no sane minded individual that would think that that is right. so she's or he's sticking up for the employers there and exactly making that point. is it 16 hours or something like that. and it starts to taper down. it's absurd, anyway, lots of you getting in touch as well. and saying that this ageism is absolutely a thing as well. lots of you saying that you've experienced it, you're being told essentially when you try and go for jobs, that too you're overqualified. some people are saying that they're trying to, you know, dumb down if you like some of their qualifications, but they don't end up in a situation where they have to go right back to the start and do minimum wage jobs. is that your experience? get in touch and let me know. look, i'll take a quick break when i come back. this one, i'll get some of you going. you're home is an englishman's castle. should there be a wealth tax on it? then you tell me. yes

hello there. michelle dewberry ben habib and tom buick keeping you company until 7:00. we were talking about immigration. tom was suggesting that because of things like low birth rates, etc, that we need immigration. michael has got in touch on twitter and said, michel, michael has got in touch on twitter and said, michel , there twitter and said, michel, there is a major reason why many british people are not either starting a family or extending their family. starting a family or extending theirfamily. he starting a family or extending their family. he says. one is their family. he says. one is the sheer cost of having a child and number two, and more importantly, he says, there is a rising amount of couples who no longer believe that this country is apparently safe for bringing a child into this world. michael i can tell you a story that caught my eye again today. chessington world of adventures that's like a theme park, if you like, just, leatherhead. there or thereabouts. just outside of london. what went on this afternoon? they're stabbing two men, apparently injured in a

stabbing attack. again, i will reemphasize the point . this is a reemphasize the point. this is a theme park that many, many children go to. this seems to have occurred in the middle of the day. so, michael, i completely hear your point. there richard's got in touch on twitter and says, michelle, i've just heard you talking about ageism. can you just tell anyone over the age of 55 who's struggling to get work, tell them to go join stagecoach and learn how to drive buses. they are absolutely screaming out for bus drivers . there you go. are absolutely screaming out for bus drivers. there you go. i'm sure other coach services are also available. nice little suggestion from one of my viewers. there richard, i like it. look, have you got a home? is it your castle. i'm asking with a smile on my face. because i've got a. i know that these two are about to strongly disagree because apparently our chancellor, rachel reeves, she is reportedly preparing to impose britain's first annual wealth tax on homeowners. this is all to plug this £22 billion black hole. ben habib, what do you think to these kind of plans ? you think to these kind of plans? >> well, i think a wealth tax

imposed on your home is absolutely iniquitous. it the whole point. we talked about aspiration earlier in the programme . we are a home owning programme. we are a home owning nafion programme. we are a home owning nation by culture. we aspire to owning a home. if having bought that, having saved the money, having paid tax, saved the money, put down your deposit, taken the risk of a mortgage, you've bought your home, you're living in it comfortably. the aspiration which you set out in life to fulfil has to some extent been fulfilled . and then extent been fulfilled. and then the government taps you on the shoulder and says, guess what? i'm going to tax you again. and guess what? it's going to really hurt because actually your home doesn't produce any income for you. it's not producing cash. it is a standing asset. it is a costly asset. and all of a sudden, in addition to paying your council tax, your energy bills, your maintenance costs, etc, you've now got to pay the government more tax for the

privilege of investing the money that you've already paid tax on in a home to look after your family and bring your family up. it would be so damaging to the social and economic fabric of this country if they taxed your home. >> and just in case you're not familiar with this story, there's a few potential ways that a wealth tax on your property could wait. so it could be potentially a revaluation of council tax bands. of course, those bands haven't changed since 1991. you can have an annual proportional levy, which basically it would be kind of, like a graduated annual tax based on current market values. it could be a mansion tax. so that would be, the targeting those properties that are deemed excessive in value or it could be get this everyone a garden tax a tax on land value. so of course that would disproportionately affect anyone with a large garden. i don't mean to laugh, but i just find all of this, pretty absurd, quite frankly. tom, your thoughts there are two ways really, to earn income in this

country legally. >> you either go out to work and you earn it earned income, or you earn it earned income, or you inherit the money, of course, or you live off the profit that you make of the assets you own. ben, i absolutely agree with you. i want to see a thriving property owning democracy in this country. but the truth is , we've country. but the truth is, we've got intergenerational, intergenerational inequality on a scale like we've never seen. and what i mean by this is if you're in your 20s and you're looking to get on the housing ladder on median income , you'll ladder on median income, you'll have to save up for 22 years in to order afford a 5% deposit on a house. that's a fact. the other fact, and that's partly because of the population explosion through immigration. just for a moment, let's not go down that particular rabbit hole. another rabbit hole. >> and yeah, well, i mean, a rabbit hole in terms of the topic. yeah. >> go on, get get into it in terms of the other side of the equation, 1 in 4 pensioner households. >> and i checked this figure with full fact earlier, 1 in 4

pensioner households are on paper millionaires now that in my view is great for them. but thatis my view is great for them. but that is asset wealth. unearned income. >> why is it unearned? >> why is it unearned? >> tom moore. >> tom moore. >> it's unearned because they bought this house, say here in london and the south east 30 or 40 years ago for £40,000. it's now worth one point, but it's still the same house. i know it's the same house, but that house doesn't go out to work. it's not in the productive economy. it's an asset, okay? it's an asset that appreciates . it's an asset that appreciates. >> but what would you have them do? force them to sell it so they can pay the tax? >> they should sell it. >> they should sell it. >> what i'm saying is when i go out to work, when you go out to work, when michelle goes out to work, when michelle goes out to work at the end of the month, we see the income tax that we've paid. all i'm saying is we should do is we should equalise taxation in this country between unearned asset wealth and earned income and what we should do with it, by the way, over time is we should be cutting taxes on working people, on all working people. >> i said to you, well, i completely agree with that.

>> i said to you off air earlier that i thought it was not right, that i thought it was not right, that we've got 1% of the top earners in this country who pay 30% of all income tax. >> they're not a group of people. you can go to and ask for any more money. >> the only people the wealth tax is going to hit them. >> but i need to push you on youridea >> but i need to push you on your idea because it sounds great. sitting in a tv studio pontificating about a pensioner that scrimped and scraped and used their personal scripts. yeah, they willard on when they bought the house. so you're talking about these people that bought their house in london. >> what about the young people scrimping and scraping now? >> can't get on hold on. >> can't get on hold on. >> they bought their house, their primary residence, in purse tax money. so they've worked. they've paid their income tax now. so now they've got this asset. let's just say it's £1 million house. wherever. what are you proposing that they do. so they've retired now so they don't have any income. so what starmer has just taken away their income. their ankles shake them upside down and saw the teeth fall out to get a few pence. what are you going to get. >> look at the moment. look at the moment. we have a huge tax break in this country for anyone that owns a home. if you sell a home, you know, we know all this. >> i'm asking you, what are you going to do? >> all i'm saying is when they

when they eventually get around to selling that home, they should pay a level of taxation commensurate with the income tax, personal allowances that they pay or should pay, depending on what the threshold for capital gains tax applied to primary residence. i would like to see that. >> yes, i would like to see that and it would destroy ownership in this country. it would not destroy ownership. >> ben. and this argument about, oh, they'll go abroad, you can't take a to house dubai. look, these are people. and by the way, when you say scrimp and scrape for this generation, anyone over the age of 60 in this country benefited hugely from a welfare state, free education, free health. >> they'll be shouting about rising interest rates. >> i know some of my viewers, they'll be screaming at the screen going, hang on, michelle, tell him, that we used to have interest rates. i think it was about 15% or whatever it was . about 15% or whatever it was. >> well, that's to do with the nature of the economy. i mean, i remember on black wednesday when interest rates went up in one day to 15%. but the point is, look , this is household wealth look, this is household wealth is £12 trillion in this country. i checked the figures earlier. the bottom 50% of households in this country own only 5% of the country. >> it's not a taxable wealth.

>> it's not a taxable wealth. >> they own 5% of the wealth. the other 50% own actually 10% owned 57% of the wealth. we're a wealthy country. we should pay our dues. >> well, you will have strong opinions on that one at home. and i'll bring you into the conversation after the break. in the meantime, i'm going to freeze frame ben habib's face on that last bit, and i'm going to use it as one of those. i'm going to stick it in my front window, and it'll deter cold callers from ever coming in. did you see his face? it was an absolute picture. after the break, i want to talk to you about a pride flag. bear with me. that's been painted onto this local, like , pavement type this local, like, pavement type thing, and it keeps getting painted over. the police have got involved, and now they're calling this a homophobic hate crime and a transphobic hate crime . and now they're looking for the suspect, presumably to send him to prison or

my my hand is absolutely burning as

i hold my tablet because the inboxis i hold my tablet because the inbox is absolutely on fire because of a suggestion that tom buick's just had about applying capital gains tax to all of your property, i can sum this up. one of my viewers has just said, why have you got this communist crescent on the on the screen happened to paul mbappe. >> i think that was your wife. >> i think that was your wife. >> that might have wrote that in, anyway, people are absolutely livid with you because someone points out, can you tell him, that they haven't just paid £40,000 for this house? they've paid their interest rates on top of the price of the house, and they've paid all those interest rates from post tax income, i mean, i'm telling you, i don't think yet i've found anyone that actually agrees with ben. sorry. with. why am i calling you ben? they all agree . ben. yeah, they they all agree. ben. yeah, they all agree. yeah, they all agree with you. i can tell you. look yeah, i think the short answer is no. they don't want capital

gains on their property. look i've not got much time, but i do just want to touch on this quickly. if i can, because there's in north—east london, residents, local residents have apparently been left, i quote, traumatised. according to a local lgbtq+ whatever it is, organisation , there's this pride organisation, there's this pride flag that's been painted on the floor and it keeps getting daubed over with paint, floor and it keeps getting daubed over with paint , the daubed over with paint, the police are now involved. it's the fifth time it's happened. they're treating it as a homophobic and transphobic hate crime. they say they stand with the local lgbtq+ community, and we will not tolerate these disgusting, inexcusable hate crimes in forest gate. and now they're looking for a suspect. just for some context, forest gate is apparently, well, it's a borough in london. it's apparently the most dangerous borough in london. very high crime rates. >> ben habib well, it's utterly absurd, isn't it, that the painting over of a pride flag could, in any way involve the

police? it's not even a crime in this country to deface the union flag, or to burn the union flag. and if you're if that isn't a crime, how the heck can it be a crime, how the heck can it be a crime to have a crack at the pride flag? which, by the way, i find offensive? i don't like the way the pride flag is flown. you know, every five seconds from every, flagpole in central london on authority of sadiq khan, you know, promoting and celebrating this very small minority in society, what we should have is much more of the union flag, and we should make it, frankly, a criminal offence to damage the union flag. that's what i do with this , tom. what i do with this, tom. >> i don't find the pride flag offensive. i think people should be able to fly whatever flags or paint whatever flags they want . paint whatever flags they want. although i do regret, you know, we live in an era of identity politics. you know, i wish we had colour—blind anti—racism, for example, rather than the whole sort of protected characteristics. >> absolutely right . >> absolutely right. >> absolutely right. >> industry and all of that. i

mean, i'm an old leftie in that sense. i mean, i'm a universalist. i'm actually really inspired by something doctor martin luther king said. all those years ago during the civil rights movement in the united states, we judge people on the basis of their character, not the colour of their skin, not the colour of their skin, not who they want to sleep with, who they want to love in whatever country they want to love them, but i'm just a very idealised person and i just give one word of advice. i mean, if this happened five times, maybe it's not a great idea to paint something on the floor. maybe do carry on flying it from the flagpole. >> well, the forest queers and allies group, the lgbtqia+ community, have organised a protest , to reclaim that flag protest, to reclaim that flag and reclaim that area, you guys will have strong opinions on that at home. i can tell you i have to say i've yet to find somebody who agrees with me. i'm gonna make this my life mission . gonna make this my life mission. if you believe that somebody should have capital gains tax, appued should have capital gains tax, applied to their primary home,

can you get in touch and tell me, please? because then at least he's not in a minority of one. but look, that can be my homework for tonight. i read all of your contacts. thanks, gents, for your company. thank you to each and every one of you. i'll try and talk some sense into him before you see him again. night night . night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar, sponsors of weather on . solar, sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> good evening. here's your latest met office weather forecast for gb news storm lillian is knocking on the door, andifs lillian is knocking on the door, and it's going to bring some unseasonably wet and windy weather to many parts, but particularly in the north as we go through the rest of today, overnight into tomorrow , there overnight into tomorrow, there is a system that's coming in from the west, and it's this thatis from the west, and it's this that is storm lillian already bringing some very wet weather across northern ireland this evening, and that heavy rain and the strong winds will feed into parts of scotland, england and wales as we go overnight. the highest rainfall totals likely to be across parts of southwest scotland. also some eastern

coastal parts where a bit of flooding and some disruption quite likely the wind, the rain. the cloud will keep temperatures up so a relatively warm but very wet and windy start to the day for many of us on friday, as we go through friday itself, then yes, it is going to be a wet start across eastern parts of scotland in particular, but towards the west. here there will be some hefty showers following in behind the persistent rain showers. also for northern ireland. meanwhile, for northern ireland. meanwhile, for northern england there will be some heavy rain around but it's the winds that are causing the greatest concern . we're the greatest concern. we're likely to see gusts of around 65 to 75mph in the most exposed spots , perhaps even a little bit spots, perhaps even a little bit stronger than that as a small core of very strong winds pushes through during tomorrow morning . through during tomorrow morning. further south, there will be some rain to start off with, but that should clear away towards the east as we head towards lunchtime. and actually the whole system that is storm lilian clears away towards the nonh lilian clears away towards the north sea. and so for much of england and wales, it's going to be a largely bright sunny afternoon with temperatures a touch higher than today. further north, temperatures a little bit lower, but there will also be a

scattering of showers, and some of these could be quite heavy. looking ahead to the long weekend and watch out for some heavy rain towards the southeast on saturday. elsewhere quite a few showers to watch out for, but that rain in the southeast does clear away and then for quite a few places, as sunday is looking a little bit drier, albeit some heavy rain crossing northern parts and then more wet weather could push through in from the west on monday, but it should be a mostly dry start. i'll see you later. bye bye. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. well >> good evening. i'm christopher hope and this is jennie bond tonight. are we seeing the government starting to get to gnps government starting to get to grips with record net migration? the figures today offer a mixed picture down on last year, but more than double 2019 levels.

just yesterday. yvette cooper the home secretary, vowed to deport more illegal migrants. so far so good. but today it has emerged that labour could grant free movement to eu nationals if they're under the age of 30. is this the beginning of an agenda to bring the uk closer to the european union? i sat down with tory leadership hopeful tom tugendhat to discuss why it's time for the tories to be honest about their failure on controlling net migration . and controlling net migration. and smile, you're on camera. do you mind being filmed when you're going shopping ? retailers are going shopping? retailers are increasingly installing facial recognition to log your identity. it might make you think twice before turning up at tesco's in your paisley pyjamas. all of that to come get