double 2019 levels. more than double 2019 levels. just yesterday. yvette cooper the home secretary, vowed to deport more illegal migrants. so far so good. but today it has emerged that labour could grant free movement to eu nationals if they're under the age of 30. is this the beginning of an agenda to bring the uk closer to the european union? i sat down with tory leadership hopeful tom tugendhat to discuss why it's time for the tories to be honest about their failure on controlling net migration . and controlling net migration. and smile, you're on camera. do you mind being filmed when you're going shopping ? retailers are going shopping? retailers are increasingly installing facial recognition to log your identity. it might make you think twice before turning up at tesco's in your paisley pyjamas. all of that to come get in touch

with your thoughts on that by visiting gbnews.com/yoursay. but first, here's the news with cameron walker . cameron walker. >> thanks, chris. good evening. it's 7:01. i'm cameron walker here in the gb newsroom. and some breaking news to bring you now. two people have been injured after a stabbing at the chessington world of adventures theme park near london, with one taken to a major trauma centre. police were called just after 230 this afternoon and found a man in a car park with knife wounds, and another found on a nearby road with minor injuries. a third man has been arrested on suspicion of grievous bodily harm, and police believe that all of the men are known to each other. nobody else is thought to be involved . figures shown to gb be involved. figures shown to gb news revealed that the number of visas issued to work dependants was down 50% between april and june this year, compared to the

previous three months. 35,603 work dependant visas were handed out in the last quarter, compared to 71,583 between january and march of this year. that's a fall of over 35,000. a romanian court has decided. internet personality andrew tate should be placed under house arrest. prosecutors have requested that tate be detained for 30 more days after he was among six people taken into custody in an investigation into human trafficking and sexual exploitation . a senior labour mp exploitation. a senior labour mp is demanding the government answers why a convicted killer of a newcastle teenager is being released early. gordon gault was 14 when he died in hospital six days after he was attacked with a blade in elswick in november 2022. lawson nato was sentenced to two years, eight months for manslaughter and unlawful wounding , manslaughter and unlawful wounding, but is due to be released after serving just 40% of his jail term. the government plans to release some prisoners,

including nancy, early, to free up prison capacity, but the newcastle mp chi onwurah wants an explanation from the ministry of justice. the bbc presenter and ex—footballer jermaine jenas has been jailed. sorry has been sacked for presenting the one show and match of the day after allegedly alleged complaints about his behaviour. jenas was reportedly removed from the prime time bbc one programmes following an internal investigation by the corporation. a bbc spokesperson said we can confirm that he is no longer part of our presenting line—up. meanwhile, his agents, his agents mick saatchi no longer represents him . a drug longer represents him. a drug found to slow down alzheimer's has been given the green light for use in britain , but it may for use in britain, but it may not be rolled out on the nhs because it costs too much. the charity alzheimer's research uk has urged the health secretary to step in, warning it would only be available to those who could pay privately. the national institutes for health and care excellence, which provides national health advice, says the benefits are too small

to justify the costs . well, to justify the costs. well, those are the latest gb news and karen walker . those are the latest gb news and karen walker. now it's those are the latest gb news and karen walker . now it's back to karen walker. now it's back to chris for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code , or go to scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . gbnews.com forward slash alerts. >> now just before the start of the show last night, we brought you the story of dionne, a mother who found out her son's killer. well, someone involved in the killing of her son will be released early from prison under labour's prisoner release scheme. here's a reminder of last night's interview. natalie was sentenced to two years and eight months in prison and john barrett was left in shock when she received a letter dated the 1st of august. a couple of weeks ago, warning of his early release. >> his family only live five minutes away from me. is he

going to come back to newcastle ? going to come back to newcastle? are we going to cross each other in the street? and do i think he's going to do it again? yes i do. he's showed no remorse whatsoever after he after he killed gordon. he's then , killed gordon. he's then, threatened to petrol bomb my house to rape gordon's 13 year old girlfriend. and he's allowed to come back on the streets. he's a danger to the public. >> following the murder, it was probably dionne. >> then mentioned that she hadnt >> then mentioned that she hadn't heard back from her local mp, john walker, on that matter. after writing to her on writing to her. we've been in touch with her and she's told gb news the fatal stabbing of gordon gault was an appalling crime, and my heart goes out to his mother after her unimaginable loss and continued search for justice. continued search forjustice. i want to thank gb news for putting us in touch. i raised the case with the ministry of justice two weeks ago, based on press reports of nattie's

release, and i've been trying to contact miss barrett to see how i can support her further. i am urgently seeking an explanation from the ministry of justice about this case, and also how we can better support victims families through this process, including what steps the probation service will be taking to monitor people released on licence. now, we'd be really grateful to hear here @gbnews from you further on this. are you a victim of crime or do you know someone who has received a letter from the probation service in recent weeks notifying them about the early release of a prisoner? please contact us on farage @gbnews .com. it's a mixed picture coming from today's statistics across the board from work health care and study visas as well as irregular arrivals have been falls in the previous year. in the 12 months ending june 2024. this was broadly expected. however, a story you may have missed earlier today amongst the blizzard of figures is this. reports suggest that ministers are preparing to allow young europeans to come and live and

work in britain, as part of a wider reset of relations with brussels after brexit. the move could see eu nationals under the age of 30 being allowed to live and work in the uk for up to three years, with a sort of reciprocal arrangement for uk citizens. although the government denies this. only a month ago, sir keir starmer has confirmed that work has been underway to strengthen the ties with the eu. but is this a partial reversal of brexit? joining me now here in the studio is dame andrea jenkyns, former tory mp and a former tory minister, and stephen pound , the minister, and stephen pound, the former labour mp and also a former labour mp and also a former minister. to you first, steve pound, will companies welcome more under 30s coming over here from the eu? >> i'm damn sure they will, particularly in the hospitality business. i mean, i think one of the good things about, you know, there were a lot of good things about the eu is the fact that people under the age of 30 could work. not not just a gap year. you know, we're talking about people actually going to work

for a couple of years in germany or france or italy. and the other way round, you saw a lot of people working in our restaurants and cafes. but however, can i just debunk the conspiracy theories? is in no way is this a cunning backdoor way is this a cunning backdoor way to re—enter the european union. >> in no way. how do you know that? >> because that's because i've listened to keir starmer time and time again, saying we respect the wishes of 51%. he wants to close a deal with europe. >> you know jolly well. and that might mean any number of things. >> what it does mean, i hope, is that it means that we can actually work with the french on stopping the migrants coming oven stopping the migrants coming over. we need to actually get on with our biggest neighbours. we need to get on with the french. we're not going to get into bed with them, but we do need to get on with them. >> dame andrea jenkyns is this a betrayal of the beginning of a betrayal of the beginning of a betrayal of the beginning of a betrayal of brexit? if they go ahead with a plan for the under 30s? >> it certainly is. look i like you, stephen, and but the fact that you believe what keir starmer is saying, i certainly don't. >> he's always wanted to go back into the eu and it will use seize, you know statutory instruments to use whatever measures possible to go in through the back door. and what we'll see as well, chris, is that because there's a major

youth unemployment problem in europe, people are going to flock here. >> stephen, are you relaxed about that? >> well, the difficult thing is it's impossible to hate andrea jenkins. and i've tried. no one hates anyone on this show, but it does. but look, i have to say that there are certain people who see everything through the prism of june 2016. this is not about brexit. this is about being adult and grown up and getting on with our neighbours. and as far as i'm concerned, if i can have somebody down the spoons who's italian all well and good, as long as you have somebody in italy who speaks. northolt. >> it's brexit by the back door andifs >> it's brexit by the back door and it's having control over our borders. and if this. but the people have voted in a government that that labour a labour party which people know have been relaxed about brexit in the past have wanted to rejoin. in fact, sir keir starmer wanted a people's vote, a second referendum. so perhaps that's what it is. i mean, brexit is about giving control to politicians and if those politicians choose to do tighter alliances, that's okay too, maybe. >> i mean, i disagree completely, chris, because let's face it, you know, i mean, i was

one who fought for brexit in parliament and my constituency is now actually got a remainer mp who wanted a second referendum. but it's low turnout across the country. we saw that reform split the vote as well. a lot of people stayed at home, so i think labour did get in really by default. if you look at the percentages, you don't touch. >> as long as sovereignty stays sacrosanct, can't you do these deals in brexit land? >> you've got to ask yourself a pretty basic question what would reversing brexit mean? it wouldn't just be about passports, it would be about 2500 pieces of legislation that we have dumped since we left the european union. it would mean an immense reset of all our judicial and economic systems and structures. it ain't going to happen. we've gone too far down the road. just imagine for a second if keir starmer used his majority in the house of commons and said, oh, by the way, we're going back into europe. a reform would sweep. >> the nation would be so blatantly honest as that. i'm afraid, stephen. and also, there's the other issues . if there's the other issues. if people are coming over for the seine three years on a visa under 30s, they if they have a

relationship with a brit, then they're going to apply to the echr that's been specifically ruled out. >> there is no extension of these. >> it's none of that. but they then go to the echr. they're saying that they need to stay for here family reasons. >> the government says it's got no plans for this. i should say ho. 110. >> no. >> but they always say no. >> but they always say no. >> they always say, well, you're both you're both politicians. you know what that means. i was going to do it. how can i? >> i've got the leader of the labour party saying over and over again, read my lips, it ain't going to happen. and you are saying, i don't believe a word he says, well, i'm sorry, who's to blame? >> okay, what this is all about next year's renegotiation of the trade and co—operation agreement, isn't it? there's trade offs to be made on freedom of movement over access for other parts. and is it a price worth paying to allow young ones to come here from the eu to get better and better access, maybe for food or medical supplies? veterinary supplies? is that not a trade off to be done? >> i mean, the thing for me, it's not about europe, it's about global britain. and that's why i voted to leave and i would like to see, you know, our

british people have great opportunities globally. it's not just about europe for me. >> but the other thing is you've got to realise the european union is not what it was. in june 2016. it is now fracturing. if you look at hungary , you look if you look at hungary, you look at poland, you look at slovenia. there are countries in the european union which are in the departure lounge. yes. so this is no way where the ethos in the rest of europe is talking about actually leaving what they want. >> won't keir starmer want to use britain as an example? oh look , we're going back into it. look, we're going back into it. >> i don't think he's going to do viktor orban any favours. >> i'm sorry, but these numbers, they're even looking at today's numbers, you know, 286,000 visas granted to applicants in the year to june 2024. that was on your watch. your tory government's watch. so even without doing a deal on the eu under 30s, we still have hundreds of thousands of people arriving here. >> but brexit, illegal migration. but my point is, brexit isn't touched by that. >> brexit still exists as a state. what's happening here is politicians are allowing this to happen and your party has voted out for good or bad and a new

lot come in. that's that's how democracy works. >> that's how a democracy works. but it doesn't mean i'm not going to fight for brexit that i fought for in 2016. yes, i will continue to fight. >> but the really important thing here, and you and i have both been mps for a fairly long time. we both had a lot of casework and we all know the cases where people would come here from bangladesh or the philippines, come to work in the care sector. next thing they want to bring mum, dad, brother, sun, sister, uncle and i had cases where somebody was working in a care home and they brought in a care home and they brought in 27 relatives. now fortunately the previous government, in a rare moment of sanity, actually raised the threshold for the income. so you've got to earn £28,000, which pretty much cut those people out. but we've actually stopped those additional visas and quite right, too . right, too. >> but the issue is as well, though, stephen, i mean , he's though, stephen, i mean, he's done away with the rwanda policy, but there's no strong measures in place to actually prevent people coming over. so we're going to actually get a lot more illegal migrants coming, as we've been seeing in the last few weeks. >> stephen powis andrew's got a point, hasn't she? there's no new border command set up. so

you got rid of rwanda. the flights are going to take off about now. probably if the tories have won the election, that hasn't happened. >> rwanda was a gimmick. we know. i think there's one person we don't know that there's one person sitting on a veranda out there in kigali sipping a gin and tonic. you know, one person, and tonic. you know, one person, a couple of people went there, but all we need was a few flies. >> and that sends a message out there. stephen, if there's nothing. >> and it was working, it was working anecdotally, wasn't it? >> can i just say what really, really matters when it comes to immigration is the fact that there are currently today, 100,000 undocumented illegal immigrants or asylum seekers in this country. 100,000. what we're talking about, what yvette cooperis we're talking about, what yvette cooper is talking about, is actually getting to grips with documenting some of those people. we're not going to be able to send them back to kabul or kandahar, but let's get them working. check them out first. make sure they're not wrong. >> it certainly shouldn't be putting them in hotels, should we? i was quite outspoken against my own government, and that's exactly the point. >> yvette cooper saying she's reopened the two major rafe cases. cgses. >> cases. >> is it time they should be able to work while they're waiting to be processed? they can't work. >> i don't think so, because that encourages the process to slow down. if somebody can't work, i mean, the downside is that you're then dependent on what they call recourse to

pubuc what they call recourse to public funds. the upside is that they actually want to push, push, push. but don't forget a lot of those people will never get asylum in this country because they are people who have been killers. they've been working for the taliban, and i'm afraid they're going to. >> starmer. didn't he defend people like this? well, he defended terrorists and we couldn't, you know, sorry for them when people came to your surgery, you never said, oh, by the way, i don't agree with you. >> i'm not going to represent you. i'm sorry. that's what an mp and a barrister is the same thing. >> do you think the economy needs more under 30s in it? i mean, you know about pubs and restaurants. they need more. more staff. they can't get staff. is that what the story is about here? because companies could welcome andrea jenkins? >> no, i'm sure some companies do welcome it. and i know in the nhs there's certainly a skills gap at the moment and until more people are trained up, you need to plug the gaps. so i am pragmatic where that's concerned, but i am seriously worried about starmer's intention on this. >> why do you think this matters so much? freedom of movement, immigration. it's the top level. we can't. we are overwhelmed in our inboxes here at gb. news about this is all people seem to care about. >> as an mp , which as a former

>> as an mp, which as a former mp , my postbox, even though i mp, my postbox, even though i was not near the coast, was about the small boats people care about. a fairness thing is that it care about. a fairness thing is thatitis care about. a fairness thing is that it is a fairness thing because why should taxpayers money be put on putting people in hotels and helping them to live when british people are struggling with high energy? >> tories did that. by the way, i've got to say it's your government, i'm sorry to say, outspoken. i know you were there. you remember my debate. >> i do rememberi remember four >> i do remember i remember four mps turned up to my debate. i know, don't forget that was the does your does your government get the issue of immigration. >> and we saw during those dreadful riots we saw a far right issue. knock it away. but our viewers and listeners, they say it's not a far right issue to be worried about immigration. >> chris, look, can i just say one of the first lessons in politics you've got to learn to add up. if you look, there are nearly 100 seats where reform are behind the labour party . all are behind the labour party. all they need is the second. sorry. yeah, yeah , second to the labour yeah, yeah, second to the labour party. all it needs is a little twitch of the dial and we get wiped out. we're not stupid. we can add up. but above all, it's a question of fairness. we

cannot have 100,000 people swirling around in this country being undocumented , not working, being undocumented, not working, just a drag on the nation. let's get them documented. let's get them sorted out, get them sent back. if they've got to go back to albania, let's get them sent down the job centre. >> do you want to hear more from the labour government on understanding the concerns about immigration? >> i'm hearing that from yvette coopen >> are you hearing that? yeah. >> are you hearing that? yeah. >> but how are you going to get the documents as well? >> because we've just taken on an extra. >> oh, sorry, but are we going to get their documents? you know, they could say they're from anywhere. >> couldn't they? because we fingerprint people on the point of arrival. and b and this i have to say, may set the cat among the pigeons. but what about id cards? >> oh, we're going to a break now. but i can't believe you've dropped that. that bombshell as we go to it. steve pound, there's a mic drop andrew jenkin on that bombshell id cards a whole nother programme. coming up next, the man who could be the next tory leader, tom tugendhat, has said sorry, but for ? what back in a jiffy

now the tory leadership contest gnnds now the tory leadership contest grinds on. this week i spoke to another of the contenders, tom tugendhat, for my podcast, chopper's political podcast, and he did say something quite interesting. not even dame priti patel could say on my podcast last week. dame priti didn't apologise for net migration, but this time tom tugendhat did. he apologised for the huge numbers of migrants arriving here illegally, crossing the channel and entering here on the tory government's watch. let's have a look . and if you're listening on look. and if you're listening on the radio, let's listen to what tom tugendhat had to say on immigration. how do we finally, once and for all deal with this issue of big let net immigration and would you like to apologise for seeing those big numbers come through the door ? come through the door? >> look. >> look. >> absolutely. and you know, we've all got to stand on our record. >> is it wrong then to allow, you know, 1.2 million to arrive in two years legally, no question. >> absolutely no question about it. because what we've got to do is we've got to make sure immigration is at a level that

the british people and british society and what's your level can integrate? well, look, i'm interested in the levels that we saw between 1990 and 2010. then it was what is that? it was about 100,000, roughly 120. i mean, you know, there isn't an exact number because it's going to depend on what you need tens of thousands, isn't it? but look, that's the ballpark figure we're looking at, right? that's the sort of area you're thinking of that apology would wipe the slate clean for a lot of tory voters, i think. >> well, it has driven voters towards reform, which offer easy solutions like one in, one out. >> chris, you will forgive me. i mean, i apologise, i mean, and i'm completely clear about it. and the reason i apologise is because we can see the effects, right? we can see the effects in communities across the united kingdom. but this isn't just about pointing at the problem. it's about fixing it. and that's why what we really need is a massive economic change. because we need brits to be taking the jobs that we are talking about. now. that means changing the way we pay, changing the way we invest, and actually changing the british economy. because frankly, at the moment it's not delivering properly. >> not the first man joining me now is dame andrea jenkins, a

former tory mp and former tory minister, and stephen pound, the former labour mp and also a former labour mp and also a former labour mp and also a former labour minister. >> dame andrea, to you first it's hard saying sorry in politics. tom tugendhat said sorry about something not really seen that other people have been interviewed by you. >> so is lenin by them not saying sorry, but i wouldn't say sorry for that very question. >> she wouldn't apologise for net migration being record levels. >> no, but i mean, well, good on tom doing that. but i still don't think he's going to win. i just can't see members voting for him. actually, no. >> what do you think steve powell i mean, there's a bit of a rare candour there from someone who wants to be the next tory leader, maybe prime minister. >> sorry seems to be the hardest word, doesn't it? in politics, you don't say that because it normally admits guilt. i think what he's done is he's acknowledged the reality of it. and if he's on a personal level, he's apologising. he's done that for one reason and one reason only to distance himself from that policy. so he's going to say, look, that was them. this is me . i've apologised. i've is me. i've apologised. i've drawn a line. he's moved on. of course, you know, that's i think you're right, actually, it's a very well—known political trick . very well—known political trick. you know, we've all been there at some stage. your predecessors done some appalling things and you just say, oh, no, i actually

i do. >> is he pitching to the right here? well, of course he is, because he's not trusted by the right. you're a right wing former right wing. you know, former right wing. you know, former right wing tory mp. would you vote for him if you had a chance to vote amongst your mps? >> no one. i know. not in a million years. >> because. >> because. >> because. >> because why? i mean , tom is >> because why? i mean, tom is a lovely guy, but he's not my style of politics, i'm afraid. and is he going to policies put you off? >> well, is he going to stand up to the civil servants? >> i don't think he will. will he actually be quite radical and out of the box, thinking to control this illegal migration? no, it'll be just a safe pair of hands. but we don't want that. we need someone to blow the door off to actually, get the trust off to actually, get the trust of the british public. >> i told you, but i mean, what's very interesting, he comes on the sort of the david cameron school of tory politics. i think his father was the mp for the cities of london and westminster. you know, he comes from a very, very well steeped in the tory family, steeped in, you know, absolutely marinated in the tory tradition, you know,

and there's a certain thing when they do feel a that they have they do feel a that they have the right to rule, and b there's a kind of liberal consensus, which is very strange thing to say. and you see that in tom tugendhat to you. i see it very much. i saw it very much in david cameron very much. and i see the same thing in tom tugendhat. >> he's an heir to rishi or an heir to cameron. is that the problem, >> i think so, but i don't believe it's actually going to believe it's actually going to be an a. i do think that he also. i don't think he'll be in the final two, if i'm honest. >> okay. but let's let's take it on his own terms. he might be he, tom tugendhat said in an interview available on podcast platforms overnight and tomorrow morning. he talked about the choices made by the labour government to pay billions more to public sector workers and then to take away the winter fuel allowance from millions of pensioners. does that make you uneasy, stephen pound? not. >> not really, because it basically he's just downloading the last newspaper headlines for the last newspaper headlines for the last newspaper headlines for the last six weeks. so there's nothing original. >> well, he's not wrong about it. yeah. that's the point. >> do you agree with removing the winter fuel allowance yet given all this big public sector. >> hang on just a second. i lose the winter fuel allowance and believe you me, i am delighted to see that £200 go out the

doon to see that £200 go out the door. if it's going to go to the national health service, to policing the prisons, it goes into the pot of spending. >> not necessarily. it's not even ring fence. >> look where the money is actually needed in the police, prisons and the armed forces. i am more than pleased with our pensioners savings. andrew, the fact that the king got £300 a year is, are you saying it's patriotic not to worry about? >> absolutely, absolutely not. gb news. breaking news to hear that. >> is it patriotic not to mind about it ? about it? >> my email address is still open as we do a handover and i'm inundated. still chris with pensioners worried. yeah. i mean look , doing it at a time when look, doing it at a time when energy prices are so high. yeah it's crazy. >> and forecasting up £147 this winter. i think the ofgem price cap is set maybe as soon as tomorrow for this winter. is there a choice being made here by labour? it looks like 15% pay increase for trade union, 22% for junior doctors, 5.5% for pubuc for junior doctors, 5.5% for public sector workers. >> they are their paymasters, aren't they? >> let's not forget only not don't. don't forget . there's a don't. don't forget. there's a thing called the warm home

discount home discount, which actually runs from october to april, where people can get £150 in addition to all these benefits. and, you know, hardly anybody claims it. >> well, i think a third don't and 800,000 don't claim because they were getting the £200. >> so you know gb news has got a big reach. it's got a big footprint in the nation. tell people to claim the winter homes discount. it's there on the government website . grab it, government website. grab it, take it. if you're so boracic take it. if you're so boracic take your £150. >> why is it they all write to keir starmer and say we want our £200 back? >> if we ask you, ask andrew. >> if we ask you, ask andrew. >> they're doing that anyway. >> they're doing that anyway. >> but i got to ask you who you would vote for if you had a chance at the mp level of voting. >> yes. >> yes. >> pretty. pretty i mean, pretty has been a good friend for many years, so i'm not voting for that reason. but but she's the one with conviction. if you look at everybody, look at her voting record. you know, she is a fellow spartan as well. that means voting against theresa may's deal through three iterations back in 20. and she was loyal to boris. she wasn't backstabber. >> that's a fairly low bar, but she won't say sorry for net migration and then you'll still vote for her. >> interestingly, but i you know, for that out of everybody,

i think she can do the best job. >> before we go, i've got to ask you both. >> did you ever say sorry for anything when you were politicians? >> i should say sorry for getting out of bed in the morning. >> okay? apart from getting out of bed in the morning, you know, some actual things. >> yes, i did, and what a good example. april 20th, 2003 i'm sorry. sorry. saint patrick's day, 2003. when i voted for the iraq war. and that will haunt me till the day i die. the day i die. march the 18th. the day after saint pat's day . and i after saint pat's day. and i voted for that. and i voted for, i thought was the right reason. it was a catastrophic mistake which has tainted and stained the reputation of who i think was a decent prime minister tony blair. >> it really did. now, andrew jenkin, the question to you, have you ever do you ever say sorry or anything on anything being a politician, being a politician, if i feel i've done something wrong. >> well, did you say have you ever done it? >> i mean, stephen powell remembers it vividly. >> well, maybe i haven't. then >> well, maybe i haven't. then >> you haven't. >> you haven't. >> maybe i'm a typical politician then. okay not at all. >> you're just. >> you're just. >> you're just. >> you're perfect. stephen pound, andrew jenkins, thank you. >> on that note, apologetic note. thank you for talking about that. coming up next, the latest scandal to engulf the bbc. and could members finally

get a say over who leads nigel farage's reform party? don't goparty? d on' t party? don't go away

now former premier league footballer jermaine jenas, who hosts the bbc's one show, has left the corporation due to allegations of inappropriate behaviour in what has been described as a massive shock to colleagues there who have been kept in the dark. the presenter has been axed with immediate effect. he had previously been endorsed by gary lineker. the match of the day commentator and presenter over as his natural successor on that programme. this week marks that show's 60th anniversary and jermaine jenas had admitted it was a dream of his to present. the show is this another crisis about the personal behaviour of bbc presenters? joining me now to discuss this is former bbc home affairs correspondent danny shaw. danny, welcome to gb views tonight. why is it the bbc have

tonight. why is it the bbc have to have these problems every so often ? often? >> well, it's very unfortunate that the bbc does seem to have had a string of problems in the last few months from strictly come dancing allegations to the huw edwards, criminal charges which resulted in his conviction. and now the allegations against jermaine jenas, which have resulted in him being sacked from the bbc. it's very unfortunate. i think in any large corporation or organisation where you've got 20,000 employees, you're going to get issues from time to time. but the fact that you've got three sort of high profile figures or programmes being subject to complaints , subject to complaints, allegations and so on, which have resulted in huge controversy, does not reflect very well on the corporation. >> it might be danny straw, the bbc's acting quickly after not acting quickly over huw edwards. of course, in that situation, i

think the corporation knew that he had been, charged , but not he had been, charged, but not the full nature of the allegations. for several months. but anneliese on full pay, suspended . suspended. >> well, look, we don't know the precise nature of the allegations in this case, and it would be unwise to speculate about that. but from my experience at the bbc and i was there as an employee for 31 years, from my experience , they years, from my experience, they tend to take quite a long time after they've received allegations or after they've received complaints. there's a process that has to be gone through are quite exhaustive internal process. i know certainly of cases which have taken a long time to resolve. it appears that this case has been deau appears that this case has been dealt with quite rapidly. from the reports that have emerged within a few weeks or a month , within a few weeks or a month, and it was only a month ago that jermaine jenas was on air presenting the one show, and then shortly before that, he was on the bbc at the euros. being a

pundit. so it appears as though the bbc has acted quite quickly. in my experience, if someone's sacked from the bbc, it's normally for something quite serious. >> so yeah, and there's talk about that and, and there's no suggestion this is anywhere near the gravity of the huw edwards situation. >> of course, now we should say that jermaine jenas has said tonight that right now i can't talk about it. i can tell you i'm not happy. there are two sides to every story. jermaine jenas says i'm going to be speaking with my lawyers on the issue. so again, it was not really clear why they parted ways. but yeah, it is yet again issues for the bbc. do you think have you seen when your time in there were things covered up in there were things covered up in the past and now they're not being covered up? i mean, is the corporation more sensitive to being seen to act quickly or what do you what do you think? is that danny? i think any big high profile organisations. >> chris. and this is the public sector. we've seen it with the scandal at the post office, and

we've seen it with other organisations in the private sector as well. any big organisation has a reputation to protect, and, you know, i've seen examples before when the bbc sort of circles the wagons and to try to protect its reputation. that is one issue. i think there is another issue, and this is nothing to do with the jermaine jenas affair. this this is something that i've observed from before, that it has an issue with presenters , has an issue with presenters, celebrities, you know , celebrities, you know, correspondents that it sort of puts on a pedestal and pays huge amounts of money. 100, 200, 300, £400,000. and that creates, i think, some cultural issues in the organisation. it, it puts these people on too big a pedestal and that creates a distance between them and some of the other members of staff. and i think what is needed is a reset to understand so that

everyone understands what's expected of them. if they're one of these sort of high profile individuals that's paid a huge amount of money, the standards that are expected and also to make it clear to other staff that they can raise complaints about people, no matter how powerful or no matter how high profile that is. a general comment that i would make before the events emerge today. >> that's quite right. well, danny shaw , former bbc home danny shaw, former bbc home affairs correspondent, thank you for joining us tonight on gbh tonight. thank you very much. now, the election might be just six weeks ago. blimey, what a long six weeks that's been. but the reform uk party is busy planning for the one next in 4 or 5 years time. this will involve a new constitution for this young party, which will let its members have a say over who leads nigel farage's party. earlier today , i spoke to reform earlier today, i spoke to reform party chairman zia yusuf about how reform uk is planning to become a party of government. >> look, we of course understand

that members need to be given a democratic , a set of rights in democratic, a set of rights in our constitution that is what we are working on. you know, that that constitution, by the way, is an incredibly important document. you know, we are chartering a course to be the party of government in this country in 2029. so that document must be fit for purpose today, for the next year, but also for when we're in government. and so we have to get that document right. >> and will that document, when we see it, allow members to remove the leader in this case, nigel farage? that's what all parties must have the right for members to remove a leader. of course, it will. that was yusuf there talking to me earlier. now joining me today, right now in the studio is dame andrea jenkins, a former tory mp and former minister and stephen powell, the former labour mp and minister. dame andrea jenkins, to you first, you've heard there from the use of democratising reform uk. that's surely a good thing. >> yeah, i mean i thought they would go in this route to be honest because i mean we saw them have five seats. no doubt they're going to concentrate on they're going to concentrate on the council elections next year. so they've got a lot of

criticism for not being very democratic. so i think that's a natural move . actually. natural move. actually. >> there were suggestions that you may go across to reform uk before the election. >> i believe in going down fighting. >> chris, you're a fighter, nana akua. of course you are. yes >> and on your leaflet there on the screen now you're seeing that you're on your leaflet, you're photographed with nigel farage there. the leader of reform uk looking pretty happy with yourself. did did the structure of reform uk put you off, >> no, because i'm a conservative and i got elected in 2015 as a conservative and i wanted to fight as a conservative. you know , i've. conservative. you know, i've. and your future. >> will you fight as a reform uk candidate in the future? >> i don't even know if i want to go back into politics, to be honest with you, chris. so i mean, who knows what the future holds? it's a long way off, isn't it? >> of course it's 4 or 5 years. >> stephen pound, this is a reform uk growing up as a party. currently a company . yeah, with currently a company. yeah, with nigel farage earning eight out

of the 15 shares in the company. but to try and give members a chance to kick out the leader, that's that's what should happen when andrew's young son is growing up and he's studying civics or british constitution . civics or british constitution. >> he'll be asked about the three most influential politicians of the last 20 or 30 years thatcher, blair, farage. yes at the moment, reform is a one man band. we've got people like richard tice, rupert lowe, ben habib. there's plenty of other people in reform, but at the moment it is still perceived as nigel farage and the rest of the crew completely agree. what he's done is he's done absolutely the right thing. and ihave absolutely the right thing. and i have to say, as a person who's labour to his bootstraps, i'm not all that happy about it because it means that they're now on the stage as a grown up. they're on the pitch and they're now playing . now playing. >> they tell me they're fighting to go after labour. >> now, of course they are. >> now, of course they are. >> they've wiped you lot out. i mean, well, they were second in about 100 seats. >> i know, i know, they're fighting for 2000 seats at the next election or the next local election. >> the way politics works, politics works actually, from the bottom up. you can't impose it from the top. we need to get pansh it from the top. we need to get parish councillors, district councillors, county councillors, police and fire commissioners ,

police and fire commissioners, mps. it works that way up and look what the liberals do. the liberals have a thing called dough nutting, which is nothing but ed davey scoffing food. it's actually to do with it. they win actually to do with it. they win a council seat and then they target the seats around that, and then the seats around that. >> just one quick question. will they win the election, by the way, in 2008 29? they think they can. >> it's unlikely , but they >> it's unlikely, but they could. >> you heard it here first. >> you heard it here first. >> james daly unite the right. like i was trying to do before the election. >> chris jenkins, stephen pound, thank you again for joining >> chris jenkins, stephen pound, thank you again forjoining us thank you again for joining us with that discussion. now, do you ever get the feeling that you're being watched? well, some of the uk's biggest retailers, including your local tesco's, are installing live facial recognition cameras. later, i'll be speaking to an organisation challenging this surveillance

right now, do you ever feel like you're being watched? has

snooping by cctv cameras gone too far? campaign group big brother watch has revealed that not only are police using sza cameras, but also major retailers like sports direct and b&m have been quietly rolling out facial recognition cameras. apparently, companies can create faceprints of you without you knowing. and now this group, big brother watch , has launched brother watch, has launched legal action to halt the spread of this technology. i'm very pleased to be joined here in our studio in westminster by the director of big brother. watch silkie, carlo silkie, welcome to the show. to great have you on. is the problem here that cameras make people feel safe on the one hand, but also there's a there's an issue about what's happening to their images. >> well, they can do until they go wrong, which is now happening a lot. and, you know, obviously there are things that shops and there are things that shops and the police should do about shoplifting. there are proportionate measures that they can take. but we all want to live in a free country as well and be treated with respect. and

what we're now seeing is that increasingly big retailers like, say, sports direct, home bargains have these cameras on their doors that are scanning everyone's faces as they walk in, like a passport check, and they're making their own blacklists of people that they don't want in the shops. as a result, we're seeing people being misidentified and then publicly humiliated and accused of being shoplifters when they're not shoplifters. and also people wrongly put on watch lists who haven't actually done anything wrong but then can't prove their innocence. yes sports direct says to us that they may use these cctv cameras and facial recognition to monitor and record images for the purpose of security, prevention and detection of crime and health and safety, and store them centrally, >> and we heard from, house of fraser sports direct, they also saying that they use this biometric facial biometric data so that you have people entering the store can be on a, on a privately created watch list. so it's privately held to keep their stuff safe from

shoplifters. >> yes , but but this is to >> yes, but but this is to protect revenue. it's to not protect revenue. it's to not protect the public. there's no police. join up at all here. so you can have. it's not really helping to deal with the crime problem that we have, because the shops aren't giving these photos to the police. they've just kind of accepted the police probably aren't going to turn up. so we're going to have our own privatised policing system. but then it's justice free. >> so, you know, people do wrongly accused of shoplifting. yeah. >> yeah. we're now taking legal action on behalf of a number of people. we're being contacted every single week. and if anyone's watching who's been affected in this way, contact us. we can try to help. but it really is difficult because, for example, you go into a shop and they're accused of being a shoplifter before they even shop. >> is that what happens here? >> is that what happens here? >> yes, it can do. we're at the moment helping an older woman who was accused of stealing £1 worth of paracetamol. which she didn't do. we asked, do they have any evidence of this alleged crime? no, of course they don't, but the disturbing thing is the retailers also

share this data. so not only is she now banned from a shop, a retailer publicly humiliated in that shop, but also other shops in the region , so you can be in the region, so you can be digitally blacklisted from your high street with no justice pi'ocess. >> process. >> is there anything which viewers or listeners can do ? i viewers or listeners can do? i mean, mask up, wear a mask, go into a shop. i mean, that might sound a bit crazy, but given the pandemic is quite in recent memory. but what to do? >> i mean, i think we need to protect freedom in this country. i think we need to not become a surveillance state. you can't do this in europe. you don't do it in the us. we are a complete outlier. so i think people can support big brother. watch, we're trying to take action to stop this , but also to, back the stop this, but also to, back the campaign for the government to do something about this other countries. there is a watchdog, isn't there, in government, who looks after the use of cctv cameras? yes, not hasn't always been the most effective because, i mean, look at the state that we're in, so really, we need new government action. they need to

ban live facial recognition from our high streets. >> and recognise it's a problem here. it's a civil liberties issue, really, isn't it ? yeah. issue, really, isn't it? yeah. >> it's about the future and the nature of our country. do we want to kind of mimic china? do we want to be a china lite or do we want to be a china lite or do we want to protect freedom and privacy and have people treated with respect and the information is held held centrally, according to one retailer here. >> what does that what does that mean? is it you say it's passed around amongst the network of shops concerned about shoplifting. that's what. and then, you know, how can how can someone who's on that list get taken off it if, if, if they shouldn't be there in the first place? >> it's very difficult. this is the problem. it's so unregulated, in the case of this older lady that we're helping at the moment, the shops have refused to, to take her off their list despite the fact they've got no evidence that she's ever committed any offence whatsoever. and the extent of their allegation is that they lost £1 worth of medicine, which they've got no proof that it happened.so they've got no proof that it happened. so it's really, really barmy . and, you know, it has barmy. and, you know, it has a real impact on people. it's had a big impact on her life and we

are getting contact like this all the time. >> these issues of surveillance have fallen down. the political agenda. there are big issue i think, back in the noughties. but is it the case that there's one cctv camera for every 11 people in britain and we are surveilled a lot by by shops and the state and other people? >> yes. >> yes. >> we're the most surveilled country outside of china, and we have roughly the same proportion of cameras to the population as china. and why is that a bad thing, though? >> because it might make people feel safe. >> i don't think many people watching this will say, oh, we're much safer, law abiding country as a result. and we see often that in the criminal justice system, cctv is rarely used.i justice system, cctv is rarely used. i think there are places that there could be a place for new technologies, possibly even facial recognition in forensic settings when you're actually targeting suspects of really, really serious crimes. but this is the equivalent of just swabbing everyone's dna on the on as they enter shops or on the high streets. it's so extreme . high streets. it's so extreme. we don't see it in the democratic world. and the reason

that we're in this situation is because that kind of appetite for, for freedom and civil liberties has fallen off the political agenda. and that's why we're here. >> that's why you're here. unless we're vigilant, it can be eaten up and the state can take over and shops can take over. and remove those freedoms that we take for granted. yes. >> i mean, as they say, eternal vigilance is the price you pay when you go shopping in your pyjamas. i might do being being filmed, but i wouldn't want to be on facial recognition if i did. and i personally i won't go in shops that use facial recognition just as a rule, we have to draw the line somewhere, i want to live in a in a free country. i don't want to live in china. >> there we are. we listen to silkie carlo from big brother watch. great to have you on in the studio. an important issue. we'll hear more from our viewers about that, i'm sure. now, before i go to jacob, i want to remind you of dionne barrett's story i mentioned at the top of the program. dionne is a mother who received a letter from probation services informing her that one of her sons appeared involved in her son's killing, will be freed under labour's prisoner release scheme early next month. we'll be so grateful

to hear from you on this. are you a victim? do you know a family member involved in any of the in a victim situation? or do you know anybody involved in this who may be a friend, who maybe have heard from the probation service notifying them about the early release scheme of a prisoner? please do contact us farage @gbnews .com, and we'll do our to best feature your story. now coming up next, the state of the nation all the way from sunny or maybe rainy somerset. jacob, are you there ? somerset. jacob, are you there? >> i am here, thank you very much. yes. in glorious, sunny somerset, where if there's rain, it's a figment of the imagination . imagination. >> what's on your show tonight, jacob? >> what am i going to be talking about , the free movement being about, the free movement being brought back by the back door by the labour government that they clearly want to cosy up to the eu. they don't dare rejoin because they'd never win. but they want to try and get back in by stealth, possibly even getting ollie robbins in as the

cabinet secretary. and then we see one of the big advantages today in that we're allowed to have an alzheimer's drug, which the americans are allowed to have, but the eu won't because it doesn't like having any risk at all and stops people having potentially life saving drugs. so it's a real benefit of brexit that we've seen today. so that's the first subject. and i've got stanley johnson with me, who's going to talk to me about all sorts of things, not least going on the marco polo trail and riding on a yak. >> that sounds extraordinary. and just on that chat earlier, jake, you may have heard it. do you worry about cctv cameras and would you ever go shopping? do you ever go to the shops in your pyjamas and get worried of being filmed by people ? filmed by people? >> no, i wouldn't dream of going outside the house in my pyjamas. i can't think why people would want to do that, but then i wouldn't go out of the house without a coat and tie on. i may be rather old fashioned in this regard, but i'm not therefore too worried. if people see me in a in a coat and tie. but i do worry about the surveillance

state. i think it has to be balanced and we have to remain a free society. >> okay. jacob rees—mogg, thank you and good luck with your show tonight. and thank you to everyone for watching and listening all this week. i've been presenting gbn tonight. next up, state of the nation. but first, the weather with alex burkill . burkill. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news >> good evening. here's your latest met office weather forecast for gb news storm lilian is knocking on the door andifs lilian is knocking on the door and it's going to bring some unseasonably wet and windy weather to many parts, but particularly in the north as we go through the rest of today overnight into tomorrow, there is a system that's coming in from the west and it's this that is storm lilian already bringing some very wet weather across northern ireland this evening, and that heavy rain and the strong winds will feed into parts of scotland, england and wales as we go overnight. the highest rainfall totals likely to be across parts of southwest scotland. also some eastern

coastal parts where a bit of flooding and some disruption. quite likely the wind, the rain. the cloud will keep temperatures up so a relatively warm but very wet and windy start to the day for many of us on friday, as we go through friday itself, then yes, it is going to be a wet start across eastern parts of scotland in particular, but towards the west. here there will be some hefty showers following in behind the persistent rain showers. also for northern ireland. meanwhile, for northern ireland. meanwhile, for northern england there will be some heavy rain around but it's the winds that are causing the greatest concern . we're the greatest concern. we're likely to see gusts of around 65 to 75mph in the most exposed spots , perhaps even a little bit spots, perhaps even a little bit stronger than that as a small core of very strong winds pushes through during tomorrow morning. further south, there will be some rain to start off with, but that should clear away towards the east as we head towards lunchtime. and actually the whole system that is storm lilian clears away towards the nonh lilian clears away towards the north sea. and so for much of england and wales, it's going to be a largely bright sunny afternoon with temperatures a touch higher than today. further north, temperatures a little bit lower, but there will also be a

scattering of showers, and some of these could be quite heavy. looking ahead to the long weekend and watch out for some heavy rain towards the southeast on saturday. elsewhere, quite a few showers to watch out for, but that rain in the southeast does clear away. and then for quite a few places, a sunday is looking a little bit drier, albeit some heavy rain crossing northern parts and then more wet weather could push through in from the west on monday, but it should be a mostly dry start. i'll see you later. bye bye. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> hello. good evening. it's me, jacob rees—mogg , live from god's jacob rees—mogg, live from god's own county of somerset on state of the nation. tonight the labour party may be trying to worm its way out of brexit, as reports have suggested that it

wants to get back into freedom of movement, willing to reopen the eu floodgates. but just today, more evidence of vindicating brexit has emerged. meanwhile, the inevitability of tax rises has been dubbed the reeves squeeze, with reports suggesting the chancellor will target inheritance tax and capital gains doing untold damage to the economy in a sensational return for the great bofis sensational return for the great boris johnson on the cards. that's what tory leadership candidate robert jenrick has called for suggesting it. yesterday, plus , speaking of yesterday, plus, speaking of johnson's the great stanley johnson's the great stanley johnson has returned from china after making his new new film . after making his new new film. all will be revealed shortly. state of the nation starts now .