tonight we will debate the prime minister's speech. and i'm asking, what did you make to it .7 asking, what did you make to it.7 that's all to come. but first, at 6:00, news headlines . at 6:00, news headlines. >> michelle, thank you and good evening. the top stories. while the prime minister has warned the prime minister has warned

the october budget will be painful, but he says the country inherited a justice system in crisis and hiheieen inherited a justice system in crisis and hihe says the country will have to accept short term painful, but he says the country will have to accept short term pain for long term good. during pain for long term good. during his speech in downing street his speech in downing street this morning. sir keir starmer this morning. sir keir starmer warned things will get worse warned things will get worse before they get better. and he before they get better. and he said next week's return to said next week's return to parliament will not be business parliament will not be business as usual. he also addressed the as usual. he also addressed the recent riots, saying they showed recent riots, saying they showed the cracks in our society after the cracks in our society after 14 years of what he called 14 years of what he called populism and failure. the prime populism and failure. the prime minister also reiterated minister also reiterated economic growth is the economic growth is the government's top priority. in government's top priority. in other news, the ministry of other news, the ministry of justice has confirmed that only justice has confirmed that only 100 spaces are left in male 100 spaces are left in male prisons in england and wales. it prisons in england and wales. it comes as the number of people comes as the number of people sent to prison has reached sent to prison has reached record levels. in july, the record levels. in july, the government set out legislation government set out legislation to reduce the amount of time to reduce the amount of time inmates must spend in jail inmates must spend in jail before they're automatically released from 50% of their before they're automatically released from 50% of sentence to 40% in a bid to manage overcrowding, a ministry of justice spokesperson has said. the new government inherited a justice system in

crisis and has been

before they're automatically release fire)m 50% of before they're automatically release fire yesterday . everyone caught fire yesterday. everyone was accounted for and no injuries reported after a major incident was declared following that fire in east london, over 100 people were evacuated from the building, with two people taken to hospital. the london fire commissioner, andy rowe, says firefighters tackling the blaze face the most dangerous conditions. you can imagine. after a very significant building failure. angela rayner says the lfb has launched a full investigation and that's horrific to hear that and i know that the london fire brigade are already started an investigation. >> i don't want to pre—empt that investigation, but we've got to make sure that people have fire escape routes. it's an obligation. it's a legal obligation. it's a legal obligation. i'll be meeting the health and safety executive and the building safety regulators tomorrow to ensure that everybody is aware of their obligations, their legal requirements, and to ensure that people do have that safety route and to make sure that those alarms and those systems that have been put in place are there to make sure that people are

safely out of buildings and that they're aware of the fire if one happens and what happens in those circumstances? >> a man has been charged with murder after officers stopped him at notting hill carnival detectives had previously issued an appeal to locate kamal williams, who was wanted in connection with the fatal stabbing of 53 year old derrick thomas in stoke newington. he'll appearin thomas in stoke newington. he'll appear in court tomorrow. that's as three men have been arrested over the stabbing of a 32 year old mother at notting hill carnival , which left her in carnival, which left her in a critical condition. the woman was attending the family day on sunday with her young child when she was attacked. the metropolitan police says it appears she became caught up in the middle of an altercation between two groups of men, but it's unclear if they were known to her. in total, 349 arrests were made over the carnival weekend for a range of offences including violence, sexual assaults and 60 attacks on police officers . and finally, police officers. and finally, after lots of speculation ,

after lots of speculation, british pop band oasis are officially reuniting nearly 15 years after they split so sally can wait. >> she knows it's too late as we're walking on . by. we're walking on. by. >> liam and noel gallagher are getting back together for oasis long awaited reunion with a worldwide tour next year. oasis, who released their chart topping album definitely maybe around three decades ago, announced a series of dates kicking off their tour in cardiff . those are their tour in cardiff. those are their tour in cardiff. those are the latest gb news headlines for now , i'm tatiana sanchez. now now, i'm tatiana sanchez. now it's now, i'm tatiana sanchez. now wsfime now, i'm tatiana sanchez. now it's time for dewbs & co for the it's time for dewbs& co for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts .

slash alerts. >> thank you very much for that. tatiana especially that little burst of oasis at the end there who doesn't love singing oasis? hey, that's everyone's karaoke go to, isn't it? so wonderwall. don't look back in anger. you name it. love a bit of oasis, so that's nice, isn't it? some good news to start our show with? it's been a long time coming, hasn't it? look, joining me till 7:00. i've got sean simon, the former labour minister, and matt goodwin, the pollster and academic bit of oasis on karaoke. your thing live forever or supersonic? >> maybe supersonic . yeah. sean. >> maybe supersonic. yeah. sean. >> maybe supersonic. yeah. sean. >> no, not mine. >> no, not mine. >> oasis or karaoke , but both. >> oasis or karaoke, but both. >> oasis or karaoke, but both. >> actually, you don't do karaoke . i'm just like, i like karaoke. i'm just like, i like singing, but i just. i'm too shy. >> you and i are gonna live . >> you and i are gonna live. >> you and i are gonna live. >> i absolutely love karaoke. i am appalling, so if anyone's ever been in the pub where i've been on that microphone , i do been on that microphone, i do apologise. it's not. it's not pleasant, isn't it? your ears are probably still recovering anyway. look, there's one story in town tonight, and it's not

oasis quite frankly, it is keir starmer. he has been addressing the nation and apparently we've all got to brace ourselves for pain. but don't worry, because apparently in the long term, it's all going to be for our own good.i it's all going to be for our own good. i want your thoughts on his speech today. you can get in touch all the usual ways. email gb views @gbnews. com you can go to twitter aukus and you can get me there. or you can go to the website gbnews.com slash yorkshire chat to me and to each other, wherever you are. you're very welcome tonight . so i'm very welcome tonight. so i'm asking you a simple question. did you watch that speech? some of you have already been in touch with me and told me that you only managed a couple of minutes of it, and then you had to switch it off. but did you manage to get to the end? and if so, what did you actually think? what was your key takeaways from it? we'll go through all the bits, don't worry, in case you missed it. but there was lots of messaging, loads of people pretty much are nazis. i think was one of the takeaways that i took, it was all the tories fault. and we're all going to get battered in the budget in

october. they were my key kind of takeaways from that. i don't know, i don't know everyone else. what you think at home. but matt goodwin, your overall opinion to it all? >> i thought it was a very bad speech.i >> i thought it was a very bad speech. i thought it was very gloomy, pessimistic. it was very depressing. i think starmer basically doubled down on what he said in the aftermath of the riots. much of the country are mindless thugs. anybody who voices concern about some of the big issues in britain are simply populists who should be derided. he's one of the most remarkable things about that speech. to me . things about that speech. to me. keir starmer did not mention what is, according to voters, the number one issue in the country. he didn't mention it once. country. he didn't mention it once . immigration. he didn't once. immigration. he didn't mention the broken borders. he didn't mention how the country is being transformed. and he even said, which i thought was remarkable. he said the idea that there was any legitimate protest was a pretence. so here he is doubling down on the narrative that he had after the riot. so i think he looks fundamentally out of touch with the country. i think that's why his leadership ratings are collapsing. i think it's why labouris collapsing. i think it's why labour is already in a very weak

position. i think he looks lost. >> michel, was he lost to you? >> michel, was he lost to you? >> no. it doesn't look lost to me at all, doubling down is consistently saying what? what he believes to be the case. and i think he's right. he didn't say much of the country is mindless thugs. quite the reverse. what he said is that mindless , criminal, violent mindless, criminal, violent behaviour was the work of a very, very, very small group of mindless criminal thugs who need to be arrested and prosecuted with the full force of the law, who don't speak for any chunk of the country. they don't speak for people, those mindless thugs, those criminals, for people who've got concerns about immigration. and if you have got concerns about immigration, setting fire to an asylum hostel is not the way to raise those concerns. and if you do set fire to an asylum hostel and assault dozens and dozens of police officers and put them in hospital, then you forfeit the right to have a hearing. if you're one of those mindless.

>> but just to be clear, just to be clear, though, you do think that some people in the country have a legitimate reason to feel upset about immigration. >> i absolutely understand that immigration is a really big issue. that's great. >> so why can't keir starmer say that it was a really big issue in the election. >> and, keir starmer's labour has very clearly said illegal immigration, getting that down. they've made absolute commitments to do that. and if they don't they're going to be judged against it. and they've said legal migration very clear commitments to get that down to. and that's because they recognise that this is a concern for people. i think i think that issue in itself speaks to a bigger point about the speech today, which is suddenly we're asked to believe that the country's economics and the finances are worse than labour thought they were when they came into power. >> well, the head of the institute for fiscal studies has already said that's absolutely nonsense. in fact, i remember pauljohnson nonsense. in fact, i remember paul johnson before the election saying, guess what, guys? nobody is being straight with you.

taxes are going to have to go up, spending is going to have to come down. and now we're supposed to believe, according to keir starmer, that actually everything is worse now that he's behind the black door of downing street. and also, i'm so confused because, you know, he can afford the big wage increases for public sector workers. they can afford to be spanking 5 to 10 billion on a broken asylum system . david broken asylum system. david lammy can afford to suddenly come up with 100 million to throw a country's overseas to increase international aid, because he thinks that's going to reduce immigration, which is baloney. but now we're asked to believe that actually the finances are really tight and taxes are going to go up. and we all better get ready for this tough time. i don't think labour is actually making any difficult choices. i think labour is basically telling us what their political priorities are, which are to keep mass immigration ongoing, to keep public sector wages going up, and to make the british taxpayer pay for it all. i think that's basically what's happening. >> how do you work out after seven weeks in which all they've doneis seven weeks in which all they've done is fight an election in which they were very clear that illegal immigration must come

down and legal migration must come down. how do you work out after seven weeks that actually what they plan to do is let them go what they plan to do is let them 9° up what they plan to do is let them go up because they've liberalised the system even more. >> they've increased migration from afghanistan, they've removed the salary thresholds for legal migration. >> they've removed the they haven't removed the salary threshold for legal. >> they've removed the previous raise in salary thresholds. so they've made it easy. they've said they're going to do that sean. >> no they haven't, they haven't, they have, they haven't done it. and they haven't said they're going to do it. they have. no, no they haven't. what they said is that the as they said before that they would take the advice or consider the advice of the, of the, of the committee. that was set up by the previous government to advise the government on what those thresholds should be. >> they're going to lower them. they're going to lower the thresholds. they've removed the rwanda deterrent, they've amended the illegal migration act. so they're now going to grant asylum to probably 60,000 people who entered britain illegally. let's just be real with the british people. this is why i get so frustrated. it's going to be real. >> but you just said something thatis >> but you just said something that is absolutely not true. you

said they've changed the thresholds. they haven't. you said. they've said they're going to. they haven't. they are going things are not true. >> they are going to lower the salary thresholds for legal migration. they've also removed the rwanda deterrent. we have no deterrent for illegal migration, which is why the number of deterrent wasn't a deterrent. >> it was a nonsense. we never hundreds of millions of pounds on a on a scheme that the most that it was ever going to do was send 1% of asylum. like what kind of what kind of a deterrent is that? >> nobody in westminster, even allowed it to take shape. and the other thing is if labour is doing. sorry, michel, but one thing, if labour is doing such a good job at managing migration, six, seven weeks into it, why the small boat numbers continuing to go up? why are people continuing to arrive? why is yvette cooper said she's going to remove 14,000 people from the country, but we've allowed in 132,000 since 2018. it's bananas. >> taking your previous point about the deterrent, what kind of a deterrent is it to somebody who's prepared to get on a on an incredibly flimsy life raft that people regularly die crossing to tell them that there's a there

might be a 1% chance that they might be a 1% chance that they might be a 1% chance that they might be they might get sent to rwanda. that's not a deterrent. that's absolute nonsense. you know, it's absolute nonsense. >> no, we can't solve this crisis until we have a deterrent. and what keir starmer showed today and, you know, i'm i'm always to happy disagree, to have a healthy disagreement. but the reality what really worries me about starmer's speech today, you and i would accept okay. we don't agree with criminality. we don't agree with criminality. we don't agree with violence. but we both know that a large number of people out there don't feel safe in britain anymore. they feel that the migration crisis is out of control. why can't keir starmer just look at the camera and say to the british people, i get it, i get it, you don't feel safe, i get it, i'm going to do something about it. why can't he just say that? >> well, he did talk about people feeling safe in the streets and i'll i'll play you that clip in just a second. but i just want to respond to you, sean, because you were saying in response to what matt is saying about ireland being a sorry, rwanda being a deterrent, you're basically saying it was no

deterrent whatsoever. the deputy prime minister of ireland absolutely believes that the rwanda plan was a deterrent, because he's saying or he was saying that migrants were actually going to ireland because of the rwanda plan. they didn't want to stay in the uk. so they were moving to ireland. so they were moving to ireland. so it wasn't a are you saying he's talking nonsense as well? >> absolute nonsense. yeah, absolutely. so you're saying hang on a second. the idea, the idea that people were going to ireland instead of the uk because they were so deterred by a nonsensical plan that after two years had never come in, never come into force, and was never come into force, and was never going to is ridiculous. presumably he's got his own reason for saying that patently, patently not follow the news at the time , because there was tent the time, because there was tent cities, there was rows and rows and rows of tents. >> in ireland, this was a huge problem for them. this was happening. this was interviews that were happening at the time. it was very much the case that people were going to ireland and they were citing things like they were citing things like they didn't want to stay in the uk because they felt that they'd be removed to rwanda. i don't know why you think, respectfully, that you think that you know more about

ireland's situation than the deputy prime minister of ireland. >> because, because, because it's a nonsense story . like it's a nonsense story. like somebody says something that's ridiculous. it doesn't matter who they are. it's still a ridiculous thing to say, isn't it? >> so. so when we're being when we're seeing the kind of the imagery coming out of ireland, when you're looking at the numbers, when you're listening to the deputy prime minister that you don't believe that i don't i don't believe it. but then you think that we should all sit there and listen to keir starmer standing in the rose garden, telling us all this and that and the other, because he's standing there saying it. i nobody's being asked to believe it because he's standing there to say it. >> he's the prime minister. he's making he's making a speech in, in, i think a pretty transparent way. i don't i don't think he's i don't think he's telling lies. i don't think he's telling lies. i don't think he's telling lies. i don't think he's trying to hoodwink people. people can make up their minds. that's, you know, that's democracy. that's how it's supposed to be. >> well, i'm deriding much of the country as being populist because they're expressing concerns about issues that are entirely legitimate. i don't think that's leadership. i think what starmer is doing is he's basically carving out half the country and saying, i don't

really like you. you're all a bit far right and a bit populist. i want to talk about what i'm interested in, which is over here, which is the economy, which is, you know, coming up with these numbers that everybody knew were going to be arriving before the election. and now he's saying, i didn't expect these numbers to come here. i think it was a very disingenuous speech, actually disingenuous speech, actually disingenuous at all. so why is pauljohnson disingenuous at all. so why is paul johnson from the institute for fiscal studies, which is an independent, credible body, saying everybody knew taxes was going to have to were going to have to go up before the election. so why is paul johnson saying that if we're now being asked to believe that suddenly everything's changed now that keir starmer has gone into number 10, are you saying that labourin number 10, are you saying that labour in during the election said that they wouldn't raise any taxes ? are we are we any taxes? are we are we revising history now? rachel reeves and keir starmer were pretty explicit on working people. >> they said they said, they said no increase in income tax, no increase in national insurance, no increase in vat, no increase in corporation tax. they very explicitly named four taxes. they very, very clearly

didn't say there will be no increase in any tax . and that's increase in any tax. and that's what paul johnson, when he says everybody knows some other taxes were going to go up. i mean people are not stupid. if you say that these four will definitely not. but you won't make any commitments about anything else. what do people think that means? >> i think it's news. i think everything he said this morning is, is news to the british people. actually, i think they would rather have a conversation a lot cleverer than you think. >> they are. >> they are. >> i think they'd rather have a conversation about what they're saying is the top issue facing the country. and keir starmer didn't mention once this morning that wasn't what his speech this morning was about. the state of the nation speech. >> it wasn't it wasn't the state of the nation speech. actually, it was a speech about the economy principally, and about what is what is going to be possible and feasible in such a difficult situation. and when they boxed them in, boxed themselves in with so many, very restrictive commitments like those four big taxes, like their commitments not to borrow . and commitments not to borrow. and that's why he's made this speech. it's basically a speech that says to the british people

exactly what they said during the election, although more gloomily , which is it's going to gloomily, which is it's going to be very, very difficult. we are in a very difficult position and we're not going to make up lies about all kinds of stuff. we can do that. we can't. we're going to be honest. it's going to be hard and slow and painful. >> i'll tell you something i don't like, actually, when people including keir starmer are standing there saying, oh, we've inherited all this and we've inherited all this and we've inherited all that, it's really bad. i sit there and i shout at my tv screen, i think, i don't know how you dare, because the labour party were calling for longer, deeper and harder lockdowns to go earlier, to start later. that is one of the reasons paying for all those lockdown measures and furloughs and free dinners and lunches or whatever it was. that is one of the primary reasons that we've got ourselves in such a ridiculous economic situation in the first place. so when i see whoever it is, whether it's, sunak at the time , whether it's sunak at the time, whether it's starmer at the time, all kind of, you know , like stroking of, you know, like stroking their chin as though this kind of economic dire situation was anyone else's fault. and they

were not part of calling for those things. i think it's pathetic, and i think it's disingenuous. >> it's also it is very misleading. a lot of civil servants and a lot of politicians signed off on the finances that they're now saying they didn't really know were coming down the line a few months ago. and there's a lot of things that we're not talking about even now. talk about the economy. you want to talk about the economy? well, why are we building a low wage, low skill, high economy? >> i want to talk about the economy. so

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 alongside mitchell and simon and matt goodwin remain. and we were just having a debate. they were having a debate, in the break, they were saying when you heard keir starmer basically saying that he's not going to raise taxes for working people, and then he goes on to list all their do you pay attention to

their do you pay attention to the detail? so do you hear him when he's going on about i won't raise this tax or this tax or this tax, or do you literally just hear, right, we're not going to raise taxes. and that is the message that you receive. i've got to point out to you all as well that when he was actually pressed, keir starmer, what do you mean by working people? because that's what he was saying. i'm not going to raise taxes for working people. it then transpires that what he actually means was anyone that hasn't got any savings, so you can be a working person but have savings and then you would presumably we shall see in october be having some element of tax rises. so tell me what you think to it. look we've kind of talked about this. i'll play you a clip of it in a second about populism. and in fact, you know what? let me play it for you now, because keir starmer, when he was talking about these riots, he was speaking a lot about snake oil salesman. listen but these riots didn't happen in a vacuum. >> they exposed the state of our country, revealed a deeply unhealthy society. the cracks in

our foundations laid bare , our foundations laid bare, weakened by a decade of division and decline, infected by a spiral of populism which fed off cycles of failure of the last government every time they faced a difficult problem, they failed to be honest . they offered the to be honest. they offered the snake oil of populism . snake oil of populism. >> what's your reaction? well, i can hear your reaction. but tell everyone at home, what's your reaction to that? matt goodwin i think i think to be honest, it's how the it's how much of the left views social problems that they don't want to talk about. >> it's all the result of misinformation, populism, far right politics. they can't countenance the notion that actually people might have good reasons for feeling deeply anxious about the fact that we no longer have secure borders and therefore are no longer a serious country. you can't be a serious country. you can't be a serious country. you can't be a serious country without strong borders , and we no longer have borders, and we no longer have control over who's coming in and

who's going out of the country. now, keir starmer can say, well, the snake oil of populism and all the division. i mean, this was the guy that was telling people, remember after the brexit referendum, your voice actually isn't legitimate. i'm going to demand that you vote again. i mean, this was the guy who was basically saying representative democracy only really matters when the people agree with what i think about these issues. i just don't buy it. i'm afraid what he should have said today is, look, all the polling companies are saying immigration is the number one issue facing the country . we issue facing the country. we need to fix the borders. both left and right have got this wrong. this is what i'm going to do. we need to dramatically lower net migration. we've got a lower net migration. we've got a low wage economy. it's not working. we're spending 5 to 7 billion a year on our asylum system. this isn't fair on the british taxpayer. they deserve more. that's what he should have said. and he should have then delivered results instead of saying, all these guys over here are populists and far right, and all these guys over here who agree with me, well, they're fine. they're democrats. we're okay with them. i thought it was

a very divisive speech. michelle. sean when he talks about snake oil, what he means is people saying things like instead of having a serious discussion about this issue, saying things like, you can't be a serious country without strong borders, you can't now. >> so the united states of america , 40, 40 million people america, 40, 40 million people across its border in the last few decades. are you telling me that the united states of america is not a strong border? >> i agree with elon musk, actually, when he said last week, america is not a serious country, a country that doesn't secure its own borders is not a serious country. so what? >> so what if america is not a serious country in germany, which in the middle of the eu doesn't have borders in the same way? well thankfully germany is changing its mind over the crazy policy of mass immigration. >> we can see that. we can also see it in canada today by the way, we're even justin trudeau has said this is a disaster. the only people who haven't realised this is the labour party. >> but is america a serious country? is germany a serious

country? is germany a serious country? are any of these countries serious countries? the truth is, the truth is not that you can't be a serious country without strong border. border? that's just snake oil. the truth is that these are very complex, difficult issues that are causing huge policy problems for all different kinds of countries in all parts of the world, and rather than meaningless , rather than meaningless, deliberately angry, inflammatory stuff like you can't be a serious country with that, why don't we have a sensible discussion about the okay, how difficult, how would you solve the small boats crisis? >> because i know what i'd do. >> because i know what i'd do. >> well, what would you do? >> well, what would you do? >> i'd leave the echr. i'd reform the human rights act. what would you do? >> so we were we were in the echr all the time that we didn't have a big small boats problem. so how does that explain the small boats problem being caused by the echr? >> it's not caused by the echr, but the echr is preventing us from controlling our own borders and also deporting foreign nationals . nationals. >> why didn't it prevent us from controlling our own borders for the previous four decades, when we didn't have small boats and we didn't have small boats and

we didn't have these levels of illegal because we had we had a global refugee crisis and bebe? well, we had we've had more than a few global refugee crises over the years. how come under the last labour government, we were able to be, returning 50,000 people a year to war torn countries all over the all over the world. and but now this labour government, for some reason, is going to find that impossible because of the echr, even though the echr was in place at the time. >> you've not answered the question. how would you solve the small boats crisis? i've given you what i think is the answer. that is outside of the westminster window. let's call it that. how would you solve it? because so far the only thing yvette cooper has said is that she's going to remove 14,000 people from the country . that's people from the country. that's all she said. and maybe increase some police officers to smash the gangs . some police officers to smash the gangs. but we all know that's like whack a mole. you get rid of one and another one p0ps get rid of one and another one pops up. i'm asking you because i think the british people deserve an answer. serious answer. how would would labour

regain control over britain's borders? so let me give you two answers and again illustrate the difference in approach here. >> your answer i'd leave the echr and that would solve the problem. my previous remarks were aimed at explaining that that's just snake oil. it's just not. it'sjust that's just snake oil. it's just not. it's just not true. it's an easy answer. let me make the second point. >> it's just an answer you don't like. >> it's not snake oil. let me make the second. no, it's snake oil. >> it's just an answer. you don't agree with. >> let me make my second point, which is the difference of approach. and bear in mind i'm not a part of the labour government. i don't i'm not a part of it. i'm just i i'm labour and i support them, but i'm observing it. i don't know what the answer is, and i think they are going to find it very difficult. and i agree with you that the, the, the things that they've talked about. so far, they've talked about. so far, they don't fill me with huge confidence that unless they come up with more stuff, significantly better and soon

they are going to find it hard to smash the gangs. but the difference is that what i'm saying is this is a very, very difficult problem. to which i don't think there is an easy answer. and i think we should have a grown up conversation about it, not just give everybody an easy answer and say, why don't we just do that ? say, why don't we just do that? >> because i hear this all the time. everyone goes, oh, leave the echr and it's all sorted. and let's just assume, let's just assume, right? i'm not a lawyer. i don't know the ins and outs, but let's just assume that your strategy works. so we've we've left the echr and now this kind of magical situation. now you can sort out the small boats. what is the downside of leaving the echr. because the echr must give must give us things. so by coming out of it, what do we lose ? what do we lose? >> well, people like sean and the labour mps, keir starmer and others primarily would argue that we'll lose international standing in the world, that being a member of an international european court is a source of soft power and legitimacy, and they would argue that we need to work together with other states to solve this

issue. what i would argue is that human rights laws have evolved to such a point that they are now routinely used by people who should not be in our country, who are often committing crimes. one thing keir starmer does not mention, by the way, when he's talking about the prison, issue and the lack of space in prison, is we have 10,000 foreign criminals. it's estimated in britain's prisons, 10,000. they shouldn't be in britain. they're foreign criminals , foreign national criminals, foreign national criminals. why can't we deport them? because routinely they appeal to the echr to rights within the european convention. they're backed up by human rights lawyers and others who allow them to stay in the country. i personally don't think that is respectful to the british people and the british taxpayer. now, when i say these things , that's that's an opinion things, that's that's an opinion that i would argue is based in a in an interpretation of evidence. when sean says things like, well, that snake oil salesmanship, i don't think that's helpful in the same way that's helpful in the same way that i don't think it's helpful that i don't think it's helpful that keir starmer says, well,

anybody who disagrees with me is anybody who disagrees with me is a populist, because in that if that's true , 80% of the people that's true, 80% of the people in this country who want to lower migration, who want to regain control of the borders, are all populists. well, i just i just don't think that's on. >> but he didn't say anybody who disagrees with me as a populist, did he? he didn't say that. he didn't say anything like that. what he was saying was, what he was saying was that the in his view, the absolutely disgraceful , view, the absolutely disgraceful, utterly indefensible scenes that we saw in recent weeks and was partly stoked and encouraged by political populists who should know better. >> that would be so much easier for starmer if he could just say there are criminals, people who broke the law. but there are also lots of people who want to fix the border, who want to live in a country that makes them feel safe. and he's not once said that since he promised to do that, it would be wrong to

put those two side by side. he should be having he should be having to draw a line between them. he could say, we don't agree with violence. we don't agree with violence. we don't agree with violence. we don't agree with breaking the law. he could have said it this morning. but by the way, i acknowledge this is a really big issue. people want to talk about it. my social media, like michelle's and gb news, is full of people saying, why can't keir starmer just say, i get it, you want control over your own borders. you don't want to live in towns that feel unsafe. you don't want machete wielding gangs. i get it, we want to deal with these issues. why can't he just come out and say that? >> he has said that kind of thing? loads and loads and loads. i've not heard it since the riots. >> oh come on, are you honestly telling me that you think that this government is actually accepting that there are many people out there who have a genuine concern, a legitimate concern? i would call it, if you're in, for example, hartlepool and you hear the story that a so—called asylum seeker has murdered that 70 year old guy, and then you have, i don't know, a hotel with these people from all of these different war zones. at the end of your road, do you feel that

it's to okay be somewhat apprehensive , scared or whatever apprehensive, scared or whatever about who these people are at the end of your road, who quite frankly, no one even really knows who they are anyway. i think there's a there's a real kind of a wish to paint these labour people this and it's quite easy with keir starmer because he's sir keir starmer. >> he's a casey, he's a, he's been a, he's been a very successful in his life even though he came from as we've heard 100 times, working class origins. it's easy to paint them origins. it's easy to paint them or try and paint them as a kind of some kind of out of touch middle class elite. i'm asking a simple question. i'm answering you. i'm answering you now. >> acknowledgement that many people in this country have legitimate concerns based on things like i've just described to you, the 70 year old fella who gets murdered by a so—called asylum seeker, that leaves a, you know, a legitimate concern of people. do you think that is

being acknowledged by the labour party? >> so, yes, absolutely. i do . >> so, yes, absolutely. i do. >> so, yes, absolutely. i do. >> and where and by whom? >> and where and by whom? >> so those those people that you're talking about, those communities that you're talking about up and down britain, right across britain , wales, scotland, across britain, wales, scotland, england, north, south, all over britain , working class britain, working class communities that are under pressure and that are angry. yeah overwhelmingly, just seven weeks ago in a general election voted labour. you're not answering my question. i am i am answering my question. i am i am answering your question. are the labour party the reason they voted labour concerns of safety that people have not? >> of course, i answered straight away. >> i answered straight away. >> i answered straight away. >> actual behaviour. that's happened. yes yes. >> and that's and that's why. that's why people voted for them. all of them. >> 20% of the eligible electorate voted for labour. let's be sensible about this. who is acknowledging those people's concerns? vast? >> i mean, labour is acknowledging those people's concerns. the point all the time. the point i'm making. give me one example. >> if everyone's doing it all the time, just give me one

example, then, i mean, i genuinely i think it's a, you know , i think it's a daft know, i think it's a daft question. i mean, you know, but you see, this is what this is the issue that i have with so many people who commentate on current affairs. there is such a disconnection, such a refusal to acknowledge that there are people in this country who are terrified about the fact that you've just moved in 100 random men from some random war zone at the end of their road. no one knows who these people are. >> there's not a disconnection press about people being murdered in their own community by these people, and they are afraid they don't want this. >> and you're saying there's not a disconnection? it's a daft question. >> the daft thing is to suggest that the question is the way that the question is the way that it assumes that the labour party and labour mps are not in touch with these people and their feelings. of course they are. >> acknowledge this. you're telling me all of them acknowledge it all the time? i've asked for one example of it.then i've asked for one example of it. then if they're all doing it all the time, you can't give me one. and then you say, well, it's a daft

hello, i'm michelle dewberry. angela has been in touch and says i'm glad you're back, michelle. i was glad i was back then. my blood pressure. oh. anyway, look alongside me, shaun, simon and matt goodwin. we love passionate debates on dewbs& co, look, let me just play dewbs& co, look, let me just play you this clip, and it perhaps sums up some of the conversation we were just having before the break. >> listen, it shouldn't be a country where people fear walking down their street , their walking down their street, their tvs showing cars and buildings being set on fire. >> right. so just for the absolute record, i don't want anyone of any persuasion feeling afraid as they're walking down their street. just for the record, i don't think it's okay to burn places. things whatever. i think all of that is criminal andifs i think all of that is criminal and it's wrong. however, i cannot help but notice that there's such this focus to, you

know, people are afraid to walk down their streets because the car was on fire on telly or whatever, whatever , completely whatever, whatever, completely accept that. and i agree with that sentiment. it's wrong. i don't want anyone to feel that way. what about the people that are in their local areas that have got these hotels shoved in them without any consultation, by the way, what about those people that have fears about who on earth is it in that hotel when, of course, you hear the stories and these are not baseless, random racist weirdos. they're hearing stories such as a 70 year old guy minding his own business, gets murdered by a so—called asylum seeker. they hear those stories. it makes them fearful. who is addressing those concerns? >> well, what about the people who watched abdul ezedi? who came into britain illegally? who then applied for asylum twice, who sexually assaulted a woman ? who sexually assaulted a woman? he then got given asylum when he said he'd converted to christianity , except everybody christianity, except everybody around him knew that was fake. and then he went on and he poured acid over a mother and two children. these are real world cases. people aren't making this up. and what i would have said to keir starmer is

okay, people are scared looking at the violence and the criminality during the riots and that's true. and everybody here rejects that violence and criminality . rejects that violence and criminality. but i think there are lots of people in the country who look at the small boats arriving, who look at the 130, 31, nearly 132,000 people entering britain illegally, taking the british taxpayer for a complete ride, costing the country 5 to £7 billion every yeah country 5 to £7 billion every year. and i think they feel scared. mainly young, predominantly muslim men under the age of 40. i think brits are saying why on earth can we not control our own borders? thomas sowell, one of my famous, one of my favourite thinkers, once said immigration laws are the only laws that are discussed in terms of to how help people break them. right? isn't that interesting? immigration laws are the only laws that are ever discussed in terms of how to help people break them. and i think that's what lots of folks out there were thinking and feeling. when they're listening to keir starmer today, you find that unacceptable . so do we. but

that unacceptable. so do we. but we find this unacceptable. why can't you fix this over here? >> but he's just he's just fought and won an election on the basis of very clearly promising to fix both of those things. and if they don't fix it, they will be in trouble. there's no doubt about that. it was a very big issue in the election. it's not going away as an issue. >> okay. can i just ask one question? >> they understand that. >> they understand that. >> just can i ask one question? you were a labour mp, right? so just just a while ago. just treat me like an absolute idiot, right. from just from a strategy point of view. >> i'll do my best, matt. >> i'll do my best, matt. >> just from a strategy point of view, just from a strategy point of view. right. so you're in keir starmer's team. you're looking at all the polling and it's saying two thirds of brits associate the protests and the riots with immigration. right. you're looking at the polling. it's also saying immigration is the number one issue facing the country. so here's my question. he's given a number of speeches since the riots and the protests. why hasn't he once mentioned the word immigration? why is he not once said, i get that this might actually be

rooted in people's concerns over what's happening on the borders. and with immigration. >> go on. »- >> go on. >> so i can tell you what what i think, like, i don't know that they haven't consulted me about this, but, as you say, given all that , it's this, but, as you say, given all that, it's very unlikely indeed that, it's very unlikely indeed that they just forgot. isn't it? it's very unlikely to be an oversight . so what i think it's very unlikely to be an oversight. so what i think is going on is what i was talking about earlier. i think deliberately what they're saying is if you want to get this issue on the agenda for us, if you want, if you if when we're going to have this conversation, it's not going to be because you did or actually a tiny group of criminals did those really bad things that that were actually worse than the worst than their individual elements. the sum was worse because it was actually it was an attack. i get it, it was an attack on law and order, deliberately not addressing people's concerns because a 15

year old took some rocks at. no, no, he's, he's he's saying not not because of 15 year old chucks and rocks at police, but because for several nights in a row, for ten days or so, the whole question of law and order, he started with his far right nonsense rhetoric. >> pretty much the second these things, people started expressing frustration. so he didn't only end up at this point. >> come on, i think starmer made it worse, actually. i think starmer made the rioting and the protests worse. i really do by just denouncing everybody as far right thugs and not saying, you know, 2011. remember those riots? we were allowed to have a great conversation at that time about the legitimate concerns about the legitimate concerns about austerity and public sector cuts. this time around, none of that. everyone's a criminal. everyone's a thug. we're not talking about the wider issue. >> 20 2011. the court sat 24 over seven all weekend, banging people up, left, right and

centre in exactly a very similar way to how they have done this time. >> there's no public conversation was completely different. >> there is. >> there is. >> it was under a conservative government and the left was falling over itself to say this was about austerity and public sector cuts. >> there's some eye rolling going on in the studio, ladies and gents, what do you make of all at home? the

hello. michelle dewberry with you till 7:00. sean simon and matt goodwin remains alongside me. look. time. absolutely flies. john has been in touch saying michelle keir starmer today was speaking more like someone in opposition, not as leading us like the pm should be, there was no concrete solutions offered , says marcus. solutions offered, says marcus. and he feels that perhaps it's all kind of going in the wrong direction when it comes to the negotiation approach with the unions. keir starmer was asked

about his approach with the unions, telling everyone to tighten their belts and suffer some pain, suggestions that he might not be so tough with the unions. your thoughts? >> i think they've done very well with the unions. we had massive strikes under the tories more, not just more, strikes that massively , massively, more that massively, massively, more than ever under labour, but more strikes than more strikes last year than in france. yeah. and, they've made reasonable pay deals . they've made reasonable pay deals. nothing like what they've made reasonable pay deals . nothing like what the deals. nothing like what the unions were asking for, but enough to get them back to work. >> and what are the bosses of the unions? the other day tweeted out and said he's got a no strings attached pay rise. i mean, do you think you should be? i mean, do you really think that's negotiable if basically you just give them all the pay rise without asking for something in return? >> well, they haven't had a no strings attached pay. >> that's what the union boss called it. and i'm directly quoting, he called it specifically a no strings attached pay rise. >> that's that's well no strings attached. >> what strings were attached to those train drivers pay rises. >> so what what the tories did was i'm not asking you about the tories that bothered about tories.

>> they're gone there yesterday. no, no no no no negotiation approach. no it matters. >> it doesn't matter. >> it doesn't matter. >> it's irrelevant. i'm asking you. >> it's not irrelevant. >> it's not irrelevant. >> was attached to the train drivers pay rises. it's tell you the answer. none. >> it's not it's not irrelevant. it is because. because what you do now in a in a when you're trying to solve disputes that have been going on for years, you don't you're not just starting from scratch. you're trying to solve a dispute that's been going on for years. so what they had previously been offered by another force that we won't mention, what they'd previously been offered was quite a lot of money, but with a lot of restrictions. and what labour has done is offer them actually no more and sometimes less money than the tories were offering them, but without the restrictions, because that was the how do you think you increase productivity then, without driving? that's easy to answer, easy to answer because you get them back to work. because when they're on strike for two years and the services that they're supposed to be operating are collapsing, the national economy is suffering to the tune of billions. and

there's nothing less productive than that. >> i think it was ridiculous. how do you how do you negotiate when you're trying to drive efficiencies and productivity and all the rest of it on one side of the coin, and then you basically say, you know what, let's do what you want, carry on with your day. >> because the overarching imperative is to get them back to work so the country can get back on its feet. and that's what they've done at a higher cost than would normally you would normally pay. >> watching this, all my pensioner watchers or whatever it is, they've all got to tighten their belts. you won't be putting your heating on this yeah be putting your heating on this year. you'll be you'll be clutching yourself for warmth. but anyway, you know what? if you're a train driver, don't worry about it. no restrictions, no strings. you can just get your pay rises. apparently, that's all right. >> meanwhile, there are no serious answers to the issues that are costing the country 5 to £10 billion a year. i mean, what's interesting is the labour government can already find money for things that are consistent with labour's political priorities. while not solving the challenges that the british people want to have solved, like broken borders, £5 billion a year to 7 billion. i think it's ridiculous. >> you can't say on and on and

on. let me tell you something. today i'll show you a picture of christopher in a minute. our political editor, because i want to make something clear to you guys. what? what were you groaning for? >> a picture of christopher hope. oh, right. >> well, i will show him a picture of christopher hope, everyone. because i want to assure you that we take your voice seriously. here's christopher hope in the rose garden. we tried very hard. ladies and gents. can you see him? he's got his hands up. we tried very hard indeed. to put a question. there you go. look at him. god loves a trier. that's christopher christopher, hand up there. we tried to get your voice, your questions put to the prime minister we were not successful. keir starmer stood in the rose garden berating people that broke lockdown rules. do you remember that? simultaneously, within a blink of an eye, i went to a journalist that was suspended for breaking lockdown rules. but we didn't get a look in. but don't you worry everyone. we will never give up. we'll keep trying to get your voice heard. but for now, that's all gents. thank you. thank you to each and every one of you at home. i'll see you tomorrow night. night >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar, sponsors of weather on gb

news >> good evening. from the met office. here's your latest gb news. weather update . whilst news. weather update. whilst there is still a bit of rain around for some of us across parts of the south east, we're looking ahead to some hot weather tomorrow. that's because we're staying ahead of the front that's lingering across parts of the uk at the moment in the south—east, and so some warmer hot air pushing its way in, but where we're under the front as we go through this evening and overnight, there will be some more cloud and some rain. so particularly across parts of northern england, southern scotland, but also wales and the southwest. later on, seeing some rain as well. also some patches of mist and fog here in the southeast. because of that warmer, hotter air temperatures aren't going to drop a huge amount tonight. and in fact, even further north, not turning particularly chilly because of the cloud and some showery rain across parts of scotland and northern ireland. so across scotland first thing, yes, there may be some heavier, showery bursts, perhaps clearing away, but on the whole for many it's starting largely dry. but some showers quickly moving into the far west of scotland. also the

far west of scotland. also the far west of northern ireland, having some showers but drier further east, and then that front lingering across northern england, bringing a damp start to the day here for some and down western parts of wales and southwest england. also a bit of wet weather here. further east, though lots of dry, sunny weather to start the day tomorrow, particularly across the midlands, east anglia and the midlands, east anglia and the southeast. and here it's going to stay largely fine through much of the day across the southwest, any rain is likely to break up and so it's going to turn drier here. meanwhile, across scotland and northern ireland, heavy, showery rain pushing its way in from the west in the southeast, temperatures are going to be highest higher than today. highs of around 28 or 29 celsius. as we go into thursday, there will be more showers across parts of scotland , northern ireland, scotland, northern ireland, perhaps northern and western england and wales as well, but further south and east you have a greater chance of staying dry with plenty of fine sunny weather, temperatures won't be quite as high as tomorrow, but nonetheless feeling pleasantly warm in the sunshine. and there's more fine settled weather to come for most of us

as we go through the end of the week. by by looks like things are heating up. >> boxt boilers sponsors of weather

gb news. >> good evening. the prime minister today gives a tough speech on law and order. but does the law apply equally to absolutely everyone ? he also absolutely everyone? he also talks about economics and the office of budget responsibility, telling us to prepare for pain in the budget. and as mark zuckerberg admits that he basically did what he was told by the biden administration dunng by the biden administration during lockdown and accepts they did not give due prominence to the hunter biden laptop. this all happens at the same time as pavel durov, who runs telegram, is arrested by french

authorities. how much should we worry about