right populism. he says it's his mission to , i quote, inject some mission to, i quote, inject some hope into the country. your thoughts on that? and get this. apparently four out of ten tory members would be in favour of a merge with the reform party. your thoughts? and over the last three years, these figures are mind boggling. the home office budgeted to spend. get this £320 million on things like borders and asylum . but are you ready? and asylum. but are you ready? it actually ended up spending £7.9 billion over that period. instead, what on earth is going on? and are you a smoker? and if

so, what do you think to potentially being banned from smoking outside of things like pubs , streets, you name it? your pubs, streets, you name it? your thoughts ? on all of that and thoughts? on all of that and more. but first, the 6:00 news headunes. headlines. >> good evening from the gb newsroom. it'sjust >> good evening from the gb newsroom. it's just gone . 6:00 newsroom. it's just gone. 6:00 your headlines. the prime ministers vowed to do more to reduce smoking after confirming his government could ban it in some outside spaces, according to what the sun newspaper says. our secret whitehall papers. ministers are considering making it illegal to light up in outdoor restaurants, playgrounds and outside nightclubs and stadiums. hospitality bosses say new restrictions would cost jobs , new restrictions would cost jobs, but sir keir starmer insists action is needed . action is needed. >> starting point on this is to

remind everyone that over 80,000 people lose their lives every year because of smoking. that's a preventable death. it's a huge burden on the nhs and of course it's a burden on the taxpayer. so yes, we are going to take decisions in this space more details will be revealed, but this is a preventable series of deaths and we've got to take the action to reduce the burden on the nhs and reduce the burden on the nhs and reduce the burden on the taxpayer . the taxpayer. >> meanwhile, meanwhile, the prime minister has said he discussed resetting relations dunng discussed resetting relations during a meeting with french president emmanuel macron in paris today. sir keir starmers talks with french leaders focused on a new treaty expected to take six months to finalise illegal migration was also on the agenda as leaders aim to enhance intelligence sharing to tackle smuggling gangs. it follows news that over 20,000 migrants have crossed the engush migrants have crossed the english channel into the uk this yean

english channel into the uk this year, with hundreds arriving just yesterday . meanwhile, just yesterday. meanwhile, conservative leadership hopeful tom tugendhat has pledged to introduce a legally binding annual cap on net migration of 100,000 if he becomes leader. delivering a speech on public services this afternoon, the former security minister said high levels of population growth fuelled by immigration could not continue . continue. >> the party under my leadership will commit to a legally binding annual cap on non—british annual net migration of 100,000. we cannot sustain the hundreds of thousands. it is today. >> now a van driver has been convicted for smuggling a group of migrants in a hidden compartment who were found banging and screaming for help as they were slowly starved of oxygen. jurors at lewes crown court unanimously found anas al mustafa, a father of two, guilty of trafficking seven people in a specifically adapted van on board a ferry to newhaven. crew

members of the ship used an axe to free the migrants after heanng to free the migrants after hearing their pleas for help. the 43 year old will be sentenced next friday. in other news, a teenager has been found guilty of stabbing a 15 year old girl to death in the street. hollie newton suffered 36 knife injuries after an attack in hexham in northumberland in january of last year. the court previously heard hollie had told a friend just hours before being stabbed that the youth was basically stalking her. a 17 year old boy, who cannot be named, admitted a charge of manslaughter but denied murder, claiming his mind went blank that day and he had only intended to take his own life . intended to take his own life. nine children and two adults have been taken to hospital after a chlorine leak was reported in a northwest london swimming pool. everyone active sports centre in wembley was evacuated this afternoon as a precaution and is closed until further notice. now two people

have been arrested after a man on a mobility scooter was stabbed to death in clapton in east london yesterday. the victim has been named as 38 year old jade anthony barnett, who lost his leg in a motorbike accident in two thousand and seven. he's been described by friends and family as cheerful and caring . and oasis fans can and caring. and oasis fans can finally rejoice. ticket prices for the band's highly anticipated reunion tour have been announced , along with been announced, along with additional dates in manchester, london and edinburgh. the cheapest tickets start at £73, while london's wembley stadium offers the most expensive package at just over £500, including a pre—show party and exhibition. despite concerns over high prices. noel gallagher has posted online saying demand is unprecedented . those are the is unprecedented. those are the latest gb news headlines for now. i'm sophia wenzler more in an hour for the very latest gb

news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . gbnews.com forward slash alerts. >> hello, i'm michelle dewberry and this is dewbs& co. and i was just listening to those headunes just listening to those headlines and i've just been pondenng headlines and i've just been pondering for a nanosecond, should we just sack off all the depressing stuff and just sit together and sing oasis songs for the next hour instead? that would be wonderful, wouldn't it? but alas, no. i cannot do that because there is so much i need to discuss with you guys at home tonight. thank you very much for joining me alongside me tonight till seven. my panel. i've got zia yusuf, the chairman of reform uk and scarlett mccgwire former labour advisor. good evening to both of you. you're very welcome, as are each and every one of you. you know the drill, don't you? can get in touch with me all the usual ways. you can email me gb views @gbnews. com. you can tweet or text me, or of course you can go

to the website gbnews.com slash yoursay. you can talk to me and each other there. where do we start this evening? where do you ever look at the news everyone. and just like look at it all and just sometimes throw your hat like your head in your hands, your hands in the air and just go. what on earth is going on in this country? apparently though, it's not just this country because keir starmer, you know, by now he's been in germany, he's been in paris. the meeting of the minds. apparently it's not just talking about things like trade deals though. oh no, it's talking about things like the rise of, i quote , the far the rise of, i quote, the far right and things like populism , right and things like populism, nationalism as well. apparently keir starmer is very worried about this. indeed, he wants to work with some of the european progressive parties to take the fight to the, quote, far right parties. so what do we make to all of this then , z. yousef, let all of this then, z. yousef, let me start with you. your thoughts? >> well, look, this is turning out to be a dystopian keir starmer. labour government,

worse than any of us could have ever feared. let's get something clear about the term far right. according to keir starmer and his labour government, anyone to the right of karl marx and lenin are considered far right. i mean, if thinking that we should have secure borders , if have secure borders, if believing that violent criminals should be in jail , if believing should be in jail, if believing that we should have a coherent immigration policy. if believing that we should be prioritising, you know, the government of the united kingdom should put citizens of the united kingdom ahead of citizens of foreign countries. if these are now to be considered far right, then god help us all. the reality is, what we're seeing in europe is a large number of people in the european populous waking up to the fact that totally uncontrolled mass migration , uncontrolled mass migration, catastrophic population explosion, and being incapable to build infrastructure to deal with it, seeing cultures like german culture, like french culture, essentially dissipate

at the hands of such enormous numbers of people coming into these countries. that is why these countries. that is why these countries. that is why these countries are populations are saying we've had enough and are saying we've had enough and are voting not for the sort of leftist leftist governments that we have seen. musa qala. >> i just i we have seen. musa qala. >> ijust i mean we have seen. musa qala. >> i just i mean , what let's >> i just i mean, what let's let's let's okay. let's begin. keir starmer believes that violent criminals should be in jail . that's violent criminals should be in jail. that's what he did after the riots. so let's kill that one. >> he is only after announcing he would release tens of thousands of criminals from prison who were not violent. >> right. the people who are being released early are not violent. the violent. >> there are many examples of violent criminals, violent people, many examples. >> the violent people that we saw on television were jailed. and some were. some were they, you know, they were jailed for months or they were jailed for years. there was absolutely no question. and they went straight to jail. there was no question about what he did, the ones we saw on television. >> you're absolutely right. but what about the ones that the

media do not put on television because they're inconvenient and don't follow the narrative? those violent criminals have been released to make way for a very specific category of violent criminals. >> you haven't actually given me violent criminals who have been the people who are being released, because there are quite a lot of people in jail who are not violent and. hold on. >> i'll give you one example. there was a was a man who who murdered somebody with a machete, who whose sentence was cut short and released. that was just one example. and there are many, many more such examples you're talking about. >> i was just about to pipe in with this example. there was a young lad called gordon gault. he was attacked. he was 14. he was attacked with machetes. he was attacked with machetes. he was very sadly killed. well one of those kids that was involved in that killing, he is going to be released early. the mother of gordon, the teenager that was killed. she's spoken out about this. she's deeply distraught by the fact that he's going to be released early because of overcrowding. so that's just one example, right? >> but there are very few. and they have been trying to put i mean, we've gone from none to

very few when you say quite a serious crime. no. when you say but you said that keir starmer doesn't believe in jailing violent criminals because that's what his actions demonstrate. and his actions after the riots actually showed that he was. can i say that that i mean, to pretend that keir starmer is sort of some sort of marxist when he talks about the far right? right. we're talking in france about marine le pen's party. we're talking about in germany, the afd. right. and here we're talking about the people who are rioting. and actually before the riots, what keir starmer said is the way to deal with these, this sort of politics is to deliver. and that's what we have to do, because actually , what most because actually, what most people in britain, what they want is fairness. hang on. >> when you're talking about the far right, you just said it's people like that that have been rioting. so for example, the primary school child that the police seem to what looked to me

like it was some kind of weird dawn raid that they took great pride in broadcast broadcasting everywhere. is that who you're calling far right then this prime? >> no, i'm talking about the leaders. i mean, i think a lot of people got got got got worked up in the riots. >> so they had the right. so hang on, because i'm just trying to ascertain because i do think it's important that we all are on the same page about what we're talking about. so we're not talking about the 11 year old children that were rioting. we're talking about the leaders of those riots. so you're talking about the people in harehills as well. you're calling those people far right? >> no, the people in hair, i mean, it was a completely different sort of thing, wasn't it? >> they were rioters, though, weren't they? >> they were rioters. they they flipped over a police car. >> they flipped over a police car. they torched a bus, and the police ran away. that was the difference. >> i know that all sorts of people riot, and we know that the left have rioted. >> are they? >> are they? >> i was specifically talking abouti >> i was specifically talking about i mean, actually, i was specifically talking about the people who decide who thinking that a muslim might have killed those children, went to try and set fire to a mosque . i would

set fire to a mosque. i would call that far. >> right. and do you know who started that? do you know who the gentleman was who was charged now with cyber terrorism for actually being the person who started off that entire vicious false rumour online was actually a pakistani man as he far right, right. >> well, i think anybody who says who starts my point is that there's this narrative to which all of these data points must fit. >> and your point saying that keir starmer has been incredibly firm in wanting to put violent criminals in jail with regards to the, quote unquote, far right riots. and by the way, let me just be really clear. i and the reform party absolutely condemn violence in all of its forms, and those are abhorrent. but let me be clear in that instance, in that let me finish my point. let me finish my point with respect in that instance, for those particular people, keir starmer and this government and indeed appears to be the judicial system, are perfectly happy to throw the book at them. performative bbc live streamed trials for people from other groups. totally the opposite. the police essentially fled the scene in harehills, leaving the

populace to fend for themselves. a police car was flipped, a bus was torched, other cars were torched. it was a it was a godsend and very fortunate that there weren't serious injuries or murders in that situation. you see, the way that the police have policed, for example, the notting hill carnival, i mean , notting hill carnival, i mean, the reports of over 50 police officers were attacked during that festival. the reports coming back from the police read more like something out of a report from a war zone than they read a festival. so there's a totally different way that our police and that the government andindeed police and that the government and indeed now our judicial and indeed now ourjudicial system are approaching these different people. and that's the fundamental point that i'm making. >> well, i mean, and look at the just stop oil people who've been jailed for five years. >> why why were they jailed for. >> why why were they jailed for. >> they were jailed for five years for eco terrorism. >> yeah. but why. what did they were holding the judge do that they were holding people up. >> right. they were. they were disrupting what i'm saying. >> no, no, no, no. because we need to be clear about this. because they didn't they weren't

just jailed for holding people up. that's not what happened. the group that you're talking about, which included people like roger hallam, they were given such huge sentences because what they conspired to do. so this was not a random, spontaneous act of, let's just hold that fella up at the lights for half an hour to chant my just stop oil statement. what? this was it was deliberate, planned conspiracy to try and bnng planned conspiracy to try and bring motorway networks to an absolute halt that would have affected the lives of millions of people. food supply. what i'm saying mish law and order and hang on. those people. they were already on bail for similar, you know what you call holding people up. so these guys had form, they were mostly out on bail. they had convictions previously. some of them as long as my arm. so that's why they got such harsh convictions. that's very different to a 15 year old or a whatever kid with often completely unblemished records being chucked in the slammer. so i do just want to make that distinction. but anyway, carry on. >> but you talk about two tier policing. what i'm saying is,

is, is the just stop oil people are not on the right. okay. and they got jailed. that's what i'm saying is, is that everybody is getting it right. can i quickly what about the fella that chucked that stuff at nigel farage? he's got a suspended sentence. he got a suspended sentence. he got a suspended sentence for throwing, for throwing a cup of cement at one of our political leaders during a during a general election campaign. >> and i will tell you, someone who works with nigel every single day, there is no braver politician in this country. and anyone less brave, i can tell you would have withdrawn themselves a long time ago from themselves a long time ago from the political landscape in this country. it is. it's actually quite terrifying how the judicial system, this actually isn't policing. this is actually the judicial system, which in some ways is even more of a concern because it's obviously independent. the judicial system has essentially said that our political leaders are no longer off limits. and that, i think, is a terrifying thing given the violence that has been inflicted on political leaders in this country in recent times. >> it's always been like that. i mean, the person, the person who threw an egg at john prescott

did not get jailed, right? i mean , no, no, hang on. mean, no, no, hang on. >> right. sorry. i feel like i'm putting in all the time and i don't want to. we're in a political time where apparently this new government is desperate. they are falling over themselves to tell a lesson to people. teach a lesson to people that you can't go around behaving like this. so you've got these fast track, super charged, very quick route into prison for people that are doing wrong. when it suits the government. this is a political climate where apparently you want to dissuade people from doing wrong. so if you're going to attack a politician, that is in my book definition of doing something wrong. so whilst we're in this current, kind of moment, it's very different to how it was all those years ago when john prescott punched that fella with the egg. >> yeah, but it's different than, isn't it? what i'm saying is, of course, i condemn that. and i didn't know it was cement. i thought somebody threw milkshake. >> well, that was a separate. that was a separate situation. >> i mean, of course, and i've been here and i've condemned it. >> so you don't think that

person should have gone to jail? you don't think he should serve time in jail? >> i don't know, i mean, that's the judiciary. i mean, it's the judicial. >> i'm asking you your opinion. >> i'm asking you your opinion. >> i'm asking you your opinion. >> i actually try not to have opinions on things that i don't know a lot about. >> i don't somebody i mean, it's a pretty straightforward case. >> no, no, this is this is you're telling me what happened. i would rather you didn't see it. i didn't see it. i didn't see it. i saw the milkshake. and the next morning i was on here, and i said that it's absolutely wrong, because actually, i said nigel farage had no idea what was in that milkshake. and. and people might think it's funny, but it's not. >> most people will know what we're talking about. that coffee cup that was the one on the open top bus where the fella went into that kind of concealed area. it was like fenced off or whatever, and he picked that stuff out of the bin. he lobbed it farage on that bus. that's what we're talking about. anyway. i've gone off topic. keir starmer, my point is keir starmer keeps rabbiting on about the so—called far right, but no one even seems to be able to define what it is and even just in your definition, we've gone

from you defined the far right as people that rioted. then you said, okay, it's not the kids, it's the leaders. then when i've put you allow the harehills riots is far right. then you say, no, they're not far right. then when you say you mean the far right, people are the ones that are targeting the mosque. and then he points out that it was actually some random fella in pakistan that spread all those rumours. then you don't think he didn't target the mosque? >> i mean, i'm anas sarwar very long arms. >> if he's sitting in pakistan, isn't he to be able to target a mosque in the uk? all i'm saying is, is i think that people, people who go to a mosque to try and set it on fire, which is what happened, right? >> i mean, it's disgraceful. >> i mean, it's disgraceful. >> it's criminal behaviour. >> it's criminal behaviour. >> it's criminal behaviour. >> i mean that that is clear, right? there's no one at this table who doesn't think that thatis table who doesn't think that that is an abhorrent thing to do. and that those people should go to jail, there's no doubt about that. but do you not think people who commit murder with machetes should also go to jail and not be released early? of course, at a time when we seem to have people running around wielding machetes in this country, almost every week. >> of course i do.

>> do you think the reform party, a far right? >> no, i don't think they they are far right. actually, i don't, i don't, i don't think the reform party are far right, but i don't agree with them. >> fair enough. well, there you go. >> but what i mean, we're only picking up what i'm saying is, i also don't think that keir starmer or the labour party are far left. and that's what you were trying to do, is you were saying that he condemns anybody to the right of karl marx. i mean, i mean, keir starmer would barely call himself a socialist. >> what do you think? well, blimey, ponder that one. keir starmer apparently wouldn't even call himself a socialist. what lead to that? after the break, i want to talk to you. we'll carry on this conversation . i want on this conversation. i want your answers to that question, then, about whether or not keir starmer is a socialist as well. but also, i want to talk to you about the amount of money that you, me and every other taxpayer in this country has actually been paying when it comes to asylum, border controls and things like that. honestly, you need to be seated for this one because it will make your water. i'll see you in

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till seven. we've just been debating whether or not we're going to the oasis concert. that's much easier to debate , isn't it, than some of debate, isn't it, than some of this stuff. see yousef alongside me as is scarlett mccgwire, not many people at home do not think that keir starmer is a socialist. that was the point, that was made just before the break. i'll leave you to keep pondenng break. i'll leave you to keep pondering that one, i asked you a question in terms of asylum seeking costs, and i'll share with you in a minute just how much you have been paying. as taxpayers for this system. but i asked a question about whether or not you felt that reform uk were far right. and the reason that i were far right. and the reason thati asked were far right. and the reason that i asked this year is because you will know. everyone knows by now, that when these riots were happening, many people were describing them as farage riots. and some people

took the protest to what they believed was your working head office. what do you think to that ? that? >> well, they're barking up completely the wrong tree. look, the reality is that nigel has been exceptional at understanding which way the wind is blowing politically. he's got excellent political instincts, and he is. he is for three decades. >> this is a process, by the way, outside your thing. if you listen on the radio, look, it's got the you've got these very slick, professional looking banners that say refugees welcome. stop the far right. you know, they're saying about stuff like, racism, neo—nazis , fascism like, racism, neo—nazis, fascism and all that. you've got some palestine flags being waved there as well, and so on and so forth. carry on. sorry yeah. >> well, look, nigel, for three decades has campaigned and looked to champion the cause for working people in britain and for them to call them the farage riots. that's like arguing that somebody's been pointing at a

crack in a dam that's been getting ever bigger, and warning that there's a flood coming unless we sort that crack out once the flood does come, pointing at that person and trying to blame them, the reason why they use that term and they try to pin the blame on nigel is because it deflects from the fact that nobody, i would argue, has done more to divide people in this country than the race obsessed labour party over the last 15 years, closely followed closely followed by the conservative party. so nigel is somebody who champions british people of all, regardless of their background. he wants to champion and celebrate british values, and that is not at all far right. that is a very reasonable centre, centre right position. >> i think that what happened on the day of the riots, on the day that those children got stabbed, when yvette cooper , who is the when yvette cooper, who is the home secretary, was in parliament and nigel farage could have gone into parliament to ask the questions that he wanted answering, and instead he chose to put on facebook. was

this man known as a known, known to the to the anti—terrorist people? actually, i do think that stirred things up. and that's not about whether he is or isn't far right. i just think a more responsible way would have been dealing with it as an mp in parliament, getting his questions answered, richard tice was there, tried to ask such questions, never got an opportunity. >> so unfortunately, that sort of sentiment is just not true. >> well, there you go. what do you make to all of that? let's. are you sitting down? everybody? are you sitting down? everybody? are you sitting down? everybody? because when it comes to budgeting, you know, a budget, in case you've never had to prepare a budget, what are you supposed to do is use sensible assumptions and forecasts and all the rest of it based, in fact, to predict the amount of money you need to be allocated to your cause. that's a little brief. a brief business lesson. there that lesson needed to be heard by people in the home office, because apparently there for a three year period did some budgeting for what they were

going to be spending on things like passports , asylum systems, like passports, asylum systems, systems. sorry, border protection and so on and so forth. apparently they budgeted £110 million for this stuff, and instead it ended up being apparently 2.6 billion with a b us per year . apparently 2.6 billion with a b us per year. instead, i can't do on the hoof calculations when it comes to percentages, but i'm telling you now, that was way out. what do you think is going on? you are a businessman. in fact, actually a very successful one as well. what do you think, if any business said a budget of £100 million over three years and came in at £26 billion per yean and came in at £26 billion per year, they would not be in business for very long. >> look, the reality is this is symptomatic of the total malaise. incompetent and frankly , malaise. incompetent and frankly, treachery of what we call the uniparty because the labour are doing exactly what the conservatives have done for 14 years. let me draw your attention to a few figures here. so the amount spent on asylum in this country in total is actually significantly more . actually significantly more. that's just the asylum operations budget from the home office. it's closer to £43

billion per year that the united kingdom spends on asylum seekers. when this labour government told pensioners who were paid into the system in this country their entire lives, that many of them will now not get a winter fuel allowance, the proposed savings, the claimed savings of that for 1.4 billion per year. so we are constantly told that we don't have money for this. we don't have money for this. we don't have money for that. at a time when energy bills are at record highs this year for these pensioners who are being told they no longer get that winter fuel allowance, that was 1.4 billion in supposed savings. and yet we have got £4.4 billion a year to spend . £4.4 billion a year to spend. year after year. i'm less interested in the fact that it's a ridiculous overspend versus the budget. the total numbers are absolutely catastrophic, and it's a great example of how british people are subordinated to the british citizens are subordinated to foreign citizens by our government. it's appalling. >> stowlawn well, i mean, i, i think that the home office hasn't been fit for purpose for ages, it was said so during a

labour government. it's certainly true. now. if the home office, instead of spending millions a day on hotels, actually did processing the way it used to be, then you send people home, you then sort out who are the refugees and you and you can get them working. i mean, what's crazy is this system is totally hopeless, right? is people come over, i'm not quite sure what we're supposed to do with these people. what you think we should do? i think we should process them. i think we should find the people who actually should be here. right. and i think we should do something with them. and i think we should send as many as possible back. >> can i just clarify when you say we should be processing them the way we used to process them, life has moved on, hasn't it? and what we've got now is something called tiktok and tiktok. when you if you're ever bored, anyone, just go and have a look on some of the content on

there. but it seems to have created a change in people's behaviour. so now what you see is a lot of people getting in these boats, and you can see people discarding their documentation. so then what you have is a lot of these fellows rocking up on the shores with no way of proving who they are or who they are not. so how do you propose that one effectively and efficiently processes those? >> actually, it's always it's always happened. i mean, i spoke to some kosovan refugees and they said from, from before 2000, right . and they said to 2000, right. and they said to me, we flew over and the first thing we did was we dumped our passports. that's always been happening. >> so how do you effectively and efficiently process these people then? >> well, that's what's been going on for years. and what's interesting, it's been going on for years and you can tell me how it's happening then. >> qatar. >> qatar. >> well, what i'm saying is that no, what i'm saying is the people who do the processing. so what's interesting, okay, is that at one stage we had lots of albanians coming over and we said, we're not going to have these albanians. and we said to

these albanians. and we said to the albanian government, we're going to send them back. we sent them back. i mean, they too will have dumped their passports, right. but but they were found out to be albanian. they said, and guess what, we don't get albanians coming over on boats anymore, >> it was in a second. i'll show you a video that i filmed myself in a second, because i drove past a roundabout. bear with me. isound past a roundabout. bear with me. i sound like i'm going on a random tangent, but i'm not, i promise. i drove past a roundabout today in london, and i'll show you this video. look at it. it's filmed by myself. copyright at michelle dewberry. this is me filming out my taxi window. i don't know if you can see this or how big it is on your screens, but there is a collection, of men that have set up camp in this, roundabout. we've been and spoken to some of those people. they've told us that they've come across as asylum seekers, some of them have said that they have had their claims rejected. other people apparently reckon that they've had their claims approved, but irrespective of any of that, they've just

decided to rock up and set up a camp in a roundabout. i mean, what what what what should happen with that? scarlett because i find that staggering. >> yeah , i mean, that's why >> yeah, i mean, that's why we've got to. i mean, they'll have been here for years, but those people reckon that they've been processed, they've been processed, and some of them are refugees and then they have to work out how, how how they're going to work here. right? i mean, that's what happens is, is, is, i mean, i what i think is, is, i mean, i what i think is that if we let asylum seekers work, right, then actually it would save us all an awful lot of money and we could still send them back. i mean , do you think them back. i mean, do you think that would encourage more people then? >> noi then? >> no i don't. >> no i don't. >> well, so if, if you could get a job so it let's you say you're not really a asylum seeker. >> actually you're an economic migrant. if you can now get work almost instantly, do you think that would encourage more people to make that crossing? >> well, the thing about the economic migrants is, is they leave the hotels, don't they? and they find places to work. i

mean, i had somebody i know, but do you think it encouraged more people to make the crossings? no i mean, i think what encourages people to make the crossing is that nothing happens to them. >> people make the crossing because this country is considered a soft touch. that is why you have so many people, tens of thousands of people, every year coming from france, a country that is not politically dangerous. >> what would you do about it? >> what would you do about it? >> very simple. first of all, we have to stop the boats from coming. so we would pick them up and we would take them back to france for their own safety, which, by the way, something pnor which, by the way, something prior to the election, prior to that was always the claim isn't going to let you do that. >> that was okay. >> that was okay. >> that was always the claim dunng >> that was always the claim during the election when nigel and the rest of the team were making that argument. that is what we should do. and what happened very shortly after the election. under this labour government, a boat was picked up and taken back to france. and do you know what happened? it wasn't shot down. it wasn't blown out of the water by the french navy. it didn't cause a major diplomatic incident. it was accepted by the french. so thatis was accepted by the french. so that is what we should be doing. our royal navy are still one of the most formidable, navies in

the most formidable, navies in the world. they carry out humanitarian missions across the world with incredible professionalism. that's what we should be doing. >> taking one of your one of youn >> taking one of your one of your. i don't know, former or colleagues or whatever. he. ben habib, he came under a lot of criticism because he was asked directly by a presenter , would directly by a presenter, would you let people drown in the channel? that is not the reform position. >> that is not the reform position. the position that reform has is very, very clear. we would pick up these dinghies and we would take them back to france, which again, let me reiterate that policy has been tested in the real world. it is not hypothetical. it worked. and for some reason, presumably because it worked, the labour government immediately stopped doing it. >> but actually can i can i? what's really important to say is, is that france and germany take in far, far more refugees than us. i mean, we have we have people who who have come from who want to come to , to britain. who want to come to, to britain. right? not because we're a soft touch, but actually often because they speak english, because they speak english, because they've got family people here. but but we're talking i mean, we're talking in france and germany. >> how france and germany wish to govern their countries is their business. and by the way,

we started this program. we started this program. we started this program asking why right wing parties were surging across europe. and we've come full circle. that is a key reason why how france and germany choose to govern their countries is up to them. they have their own democratic systems. this country is considered a soft touch for a whole bunch of reasons, not least the fact that when people come here illegally, they essentially go to the front of the queue. they're asylum. they get put up in hotels at the taxpayer's expense. by the way, ispeak taxpayer's expense. by the way, i speak to home office people all the time as well. i do actually agree with you. the home office is totally broken and in some cases corrupt. but we have to stop the boats from coming. otherwise the situation only gets worse, >> scarlett says that we're not a soft touch. what do you think that to that at home? i suspect that to that at home? i suspect that some of you will have very strong opinions on that. get in touch and tell me. look, are you a smoker? and yes, i know my accent. you probably can't tell if i'm saying smoking or smoking. i'm saying smoking. and if you are a smoker, do you think you should be able to smoke in places like pub

gardens, places like that? your thoughts? i'll see in

hi there. michelle dewberry with you till 7:00. yusuf and scarlett mccgwire remain alongside me now. are you a smoker? and if so, i don't know. there's a lot going on in this world that might be your kind of brief moment of relaxing at the end of the day, i don't know. but look, we talked a lot about keir starmer, there's rumours abound that he might be coming for your little five minute chill out time, take a listen to what he has had to say on smoking. listen. >> starting point on this is to remind everyone that over 80 000 people lose their lives every year because of smoking. that's a preventable death. it's a huge

burden on the nhs, and of course, it's a burden on the taxpayer. so yes, we are going to take decisions in this space. more details will be revealed, but this is a preventable series of deaths and we've got to take the action to reduce the burden on the nhs and reduce the burden on the nhs and reduce the burden on the nhs and reduce the burden on the taxpayer . on the taxpayer. >> so yeah, hence people are a bit worried. will they be able to smoke in an outdoor restaurant, a beer garden, wherever? what do you think to this scarlet i think he is right. >> i mean 80 000 people die from smoking. we're trying as a country to encourage people not to smoke, i remember the fuss that there was when smoking was bannedin that there was when smoking was banned in pubs , and actually banned in pubs, and actually what it's done is it's to led lots and lots of people stopping smoking and the smoker's smoking a lot less. and that which is what you want because i mean, you know, 80,000 people dying a yearis you know, 80,000 people dying a year is an awful lot. and smoking, i mean, it just kills people. that's what there's no there's nothing good on it. and when we talk about the nanny

state, you know, the nanny state, you know, the nanny state, i mean , i am not allowed state, i mean, i am not allowed to smoke cannabis. i am not allowed to snort cocaine. i'm not allowed. and that's fine. we don't call that nanny state. and what we're saying is smoking is bad for you. don't do it. don't do it in public places. >> yeah, well, look, this is just another example of that creeping authoritarianism that labour have become famous for, whether it's sadiq khan in london telling a black cab drivers that they can't wave the england flag during, during the football tournament. and now, look, i don't smoke. i think it's a good thing that people can't smoke inside at restaurants and pubs. i think that was a good thing. and that's what a lot of people supported it. this is a totally different matter. the reality is if somebody wishes to smoke or have socialised with their friends and family outside in these places in a pub garden, for example, they should absolutely be allowed to do that. and by the way, people should also be allowed to have pubs and restaurants which don't allow smoking at all in the

outside. people should be allowed to live their lives as they so wish. consumers should be given choices instead. what we see with this labour government, and this is a very, very leftist sort of thing to do, is to say we want to make illegal, we want to ban anything that we don't enjoy, and we essentially want to suck the fun out of the life of people who disagree and have different views on how to enjoy themselves. and i don't think there's anything about that that's remotely acceptable. >> i wish you wouldn't go on about it being leftist . i do not about it being leftist. i do not call you rightist, right? i think i think it's ridiculous. i mean, rishi sunak was trying to, which has now been taken up, was trying to get people so that once they're 30 that they will neven once they're 30 that they will never, never be allowed to buy cigarettes in their lives. right? i cigarettes in their lives. right? i mean , what it is, is, right? i mean, what it is, is, is anything , anything that a is anything, anything that a government does. i mean, i remember when seat belts were brought in and everybody went nanny state, nanny state. i don't know how many lives have been saved. and there was an enormous fuss about about the pubs. i mean, i'm talking as an

ex—smoker who, if i reach the age of 80 and can afford cigarettes, which is unlikely . cigarettes, which is unlikely. >> i don't know how anybody, but there are real consequences to this. putting on a seatbelt doesn't cost anyone anything. these sorts of policies are going to cause even more pubs to shut down in this country. the pub industry has already been decimated. a lot of them have had to open restaurants. those that could have opened restaurants in order to try to make ends meet . a lot of them make ends meet. a lot of them have beer gardens and have places that people can go to smoke and enjoy themselves. yes, smoking is on the decline in this country and again, i don't smoke. but let me be clear. let me be clear. there are millions of people. there are millions of people. hard working british people. hard working british people in this country who go to these pubs and or go to restaurants and want to enjoy themselves and have a cigarette or a cigar outside and robbing them of that right is nothing at all like the seat belt analogy. it's not valid at all. >> what i'm saying is, is, is the same. people have said it all the way through. is they said it when the breathalyser came in. they said it when seat belts came in. they said it when smoking was banned. anything

that you do, anything that you do about public health, we're we're told that it's the nanny state. and so would you like i mean do you think drugs should be legalised? that's the nanny state. they tell me what drugs i can take and what i can't. i can take tobacco, i can take alcohol and i can't take anything else. >> well, there you go. what? where do you draw the line then? so have you support this. where's your next step? do you kind of keep going and keep going? keep what should be limits on this? tell me

break. hello everybody. welcome back. michelle. michelle brazier, yusef and scarlett mccgwire remain alongside you. look, we've .just been talking about whether or not you should essentially be banned from smoking outside in places like beer gardens and suchlike. we've got very different opinions from the panel here. a couple of you guys have been in touch about

the same issue. what you're saying is, if all of this is apparently about removing or releasing burden on the nhs, what you're asking is why stop at cigarettes then? if this is your strategy, why not focus on alcohol? why not focus on food consumption because of obesity and what that costs the nhs? and so on. so where do you draw the line then? in fact, actually you're in favour of it. so i'll start with you. where do you draw the line? i think that we on obesity actually that we need to talk to the manufacturers and, and what happened was that when there was going to be a sugar tax on drinks, they brought down the amount of sugar in drinks. >> it was great. there was no tax. >> nobody had. great. did you ever try things like the new taste lucozade or whatever it was? come on. great i don't i or the drinks are available , right, right. >> no. well, my way of losing weight was to give up. other dnnks weight was to give up. other drinks are available, but i was completely addicted to coke and pepsl completely addicted to coke and pepsi. i would have them for

breakfast. i'd have them whenever i go into pubs . and i whenever i go into pubs. and i gave them up and it was great for my waistline. i have to say. >> yeah, it's a personal responsibility, personal choice then. >> yeah. but what i'm saying is, is that there is a problem. i mean , obesity costs the nhs mean, obesity costs the nhs billions . i mean, you can say, billions. i mean, you can say, well, it's up to people whether they want to lose weight or not, but actually we we're paying we're paying for this. overweightness right . we're overweightness right. we're absolutely. and so what we need to do is we need to encourage people to eat better . people to eat better. >> well, again, this discussion about helping the nhs, one way we could help the nhs. and by the way, i say that as someone who's almost my entire immediate family have worked for the nhs for a very long time, is to stop the population explosion where we have 1.8 million net new people arriving over the last three years. virtually no new hospital beds created. for example, the reality is the nhs is buckling under pressure. the primary reason for that, the

primary reason for that, the primary reason for that, the primary reason for that is the fact that the population has been allowed to explode in an uncontrolled fashion. this is a catastrophe for people who tens of thousands of people have to wait more than three days in accident and emergency in this country, every year. that is a thatis country, every year. that is a that is a data point. unbefitting of a country like great britain. so and going back to the point about bear guns and things, this is really important. hold on. >> because when i need to come back to you because what a lot of people at home will be shouting at the screens here, you're saying about population explosion, demand on the nhs. a lot of people will be shouting at their screens, going but hold on a minute, because if it wasn't for things like immigration, the nhs would be buckling at its knees in terms of staffing. >> well, this is simply not true. the nhs. true. the n hs. >> true. the nhs. >> when did you last go into an nhs hospital? it's full. i mean they are absolutely brilliant, but it is full of people not born in this. >> it is a it is born in this. >>itisaitisa born in this. >> it is a it is a single digit percentage of the net migration number each year that go into work for the nhs, you could restaff the entire nhs twice oven restaff the entire nhs twice over, just with the number of people who arrived last year on

a net basis in this country. so yes, by the way, both my parents, between them have given 50 years of service to this nhs and to our nhs. so nobody knows better than i the contribution that they can make. but it's a ridiculous conflation and exaggeration to say that we have to explode the size of the population, or else we won't have nhs staff. quite the opposite, quite the opposite. >> you just if you're listening to the radio, you're not witnessing scarlett's reaction to this every time he talks about it, every time he talks about it, every time he talks about a population expansion, you're exhaling, shaking your head. why >> because he blames every problem that britain has on immigration. and i just think it's crazy, right? >> why do you think. why do you think that it's crazy when surely you would concede that if you continue expanding your population base, you will continue expanding the demand on pretty much all services, whether it's health, housing or anything? yeah. >> i mean, so what we do have to remember , i mean, i think you're remember, i mean, i think you're conflate a you're conflating legal and illegal immigration, right ? so are you are you saying right? so are you are you saying we don't want we don't want legal immigration, legal

migration either? >> i our policy is to freeze non—essential immigration and the reality is, as i said, you could restaff the entire national health service twice oven national health service twice over, just based on the net number of people who arrived here, both legally and illegally. i mean, just last year alone. >> we do have to remember. >> we do have to remember. >> so the notion that essentially either we can't we can't have doctors, for example, come from abroad in certain instances. it's either that or we have to have three quarters of a million people arrive here every year is a totally, totally false dichotomy. the reality is there are not enough places being given to. in fact, there are caps being placed. the conservative government, for some inexplicable reason, has a cap on the number of doctors who can be qualified every year. there are plenty of british people who could take those jobs. it is our government's. it is our failing westminster elite that have chosen to catastrophically mismanage the situation. >> of course we should be training. we should be training more british doctors and more british nurses. that is what. and that is exactly what wes streeting is intending to do. i mean, of course we should be

doing. of course we should be doing. of course we should be doing. we should be upskilling british people, right? so that we do not have to go abroad for skills. there's no question about that. but to say the problem of the nhs is, is about immigration. the primary problem for the nhs is diversity is exploding demand, supply and demand. >> unfortunately, it's like it's a law of economics that is like the law of physics. it is just a reality that we all have to deal with. >> something tells me that this conversation will rumble on to another day. what do you make to it all at home? how's your blood pressure? get in touch and tell me. but look, for now , that's me. but look, for now, that's all we've got time for scarlett mccgwire. thank you very much for your contribution. zia yousef, chairman of reform uk . yousef, chairman of reform uk. thank you for yours too, as always. thank you very much for spending your last hour with me. i appreciate it. night >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news .

news. >> good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather update brought to you from the met office friday. it's going to be a cool but sunny start to the last day of the week and a settled day more widely across the uk as high pressure builds in from the south and west. that will boost low pressure out of the way. so after the rather unsettled day across parts of scotland, it will slowly turn dry as we head into friday, but still a few showers to come through this evening, particularly across the far north of scotland. the northern isles in particular, where there's a brisk westerly breeze. elsewhere, though, a settled and calm night come clear skies across the board, the temperatures falling away lower than they did last night. we could be to down 3 or 4 degrees rurally many towns and cities in single figures. and as the sun comes up a little later at the moment, it will feel a little bit fresher when you step out on friday morning. there could be some mist and fog around as well, particularly across parts of the west country. rurally in wales. some areas around the pennines as well could see some fog. first thing a few showers still across the west of

scotland, but it's particularly the northern areas of scotland where there's a risk of some showers. there won't be as heavy as they will have been today and they should ease as we head towards lunchtime and into the afternoon. as well as that, as high pressure becomes more dominant, bringing many of us a fine day and i think the best of the sunshine for most of us will be through the morning a bit more cloud will develop into the afternoon, but it will still feel warm enough in the sunshine, with light winds quite widely. a slightly warmer day than today to come tomorrow. highs of 24 or 25 degrees across south and eastern areas of england. temperatures in the high teens, low 20s quite widely elsewhere. now another fresh start to the day to come on saturday. and then we start to see a risk of some thundery downpours across the south throughout saturday lunchtime. there may just be a bit more cloud filling in, and i think very few of us will actually see these downpours, but there is a risk of some heavy showers across southern areas and that risk increases more across southern areas on sunday and then more widely into monday. but temperatures staying just above average. >> looks like things are heating

up. boxt boilers

gb news. oh well . oh well. >> well, i wonder the authoritarians are at it again. the government are about to propose an outdoor smoking ban. they say it will help make britain smoke free by 2030. but will it really? sir keir starmer today still in europe, warning about snake oil politics and the rise of the far right. i sense he's worried politically what this could mean for the labour party in the united kingdom and winter fuel payments. quite extraordinary. if you want to get on pension credit so that you keep your winter fuel payment , you keep your winter fuel payment, unbelievably, you've got to fill in online at 243 page form. is this being deliberately designed to stop people getting that payment? before all of that, and much more, let's get the news with

sophia wenzler