nigel. thank you. good >> nigel. thank you. good evening from the gb newsroom. it's just gone 7:00. your top story this hour. the prime minister has vowed to do more to reduce smoking after confirming his government could ban it in some outside spaces, according to what the sun newspaper says, our secret whitehall papers ministers are considering my starting point on this is to remind everyone that over 80,000 people lose their lives every year because of smoking. >> that's a preventable death . >> that's a preventable death. it's a huge burden on the nhs and of course it's a burden on the taxpayer. so yes, we are going to take decisions in this space. more details will be revealed, but this is a preventable series of deaths and we've got to take the action to reduce the burden on the nhs and reduce the burden on the nhs and reduce the burden on the nhs and reduce the burden on the taxpayer .

taxpayer. >> meanwhile, the prime minister has said he discussed resetting relations during a meeting with french president emmanuel macron in paris today. sir keir starmers talks with french leaders focused on a new treaty expected to take six months to finalise illegal migration was also on the agenda as leaders aim to enhance intelligence sharing to tackle smuggling gangs. it follows news that over 200,000 migrants have crossed the english channel into the uk this year, with hundreds arriving just yesterday . arriving just yesterday. meanwhile, conservative leadership hopeful tom tugendhat has pledged to introduce a legally binding cap on the net migration of 100,000 if he becomes leader. delivering a speech on public services, this afternoon, the former security minister said high levels of population growth fuelled by immigration could not continue. >> conservative party, under my leadership will commit to a legally binding annual cap on

non—british annual net migration of 100,000. we cannot sustain the hundreds of thousands it is today. >> in other news, a man has been jailed for physically threatening to kill former labour leader ed miliband on a street in doncaster. michael donaldson shouted threats at miliband and his staff, leaving them shaken before being arrested in march. the 56 year old, who appeared intoxicated , old, who appeared intoxicated, dismissed the incident as a joke but later pleaded guilty. today he was sentenced to three years in prison at sheffield crown court and oasis fans can finally rejoice as ticket prices for the band's highly anticipated reunion tour have been announced, along with additional dates in manchester, london and edinburgh. the cheapest tickets start at £73, while london's wembley stadium offers the most expensive package at just over £500, including a pre—show party and exhibition. despite concerns over high prices. noel gallagher

has posted online saying demand is unprecedented . those are the is unprecedented. those are the latest gb news headlines for now, i'm sophia wenzler more in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . gbnews.com forward slash alerts. >> good evening. it doesn't really matter who wins general elections anymore. they're pretty much the same. i mean, after all, rishi sunak wanted to make sure that in ten years time, 25 year olds could buy cigarettes legally in 24 year olds couldn't. that struck me as being fairly bonkers. now we have sir keir starmer and a leaked report said to be originated by sue gray, but no one knows the truth of that. appearing in the sun newspaper, this morning, suggesting there will be an outdoor smoking ban.

yeah, that's right, you won't be able to smoke in pub gardens, outside pubs, outside sports venues. now of course, this all began really back in 2006 when the blair government banned indoor smoking, even in private members clubs. it meant a direct 20% loss of revenue for pubs and working men's clubs, and has been quite a major contributory factor to the closure of 7000 licensed premises. this particular proposal would, i think, literally kill off the traditional pub for good. they might survive as restaurants, but not as pubs. but sir keir seems pretty keen on all of this. here he was speaking this morning outside the elysee palace in paris . morning outside the elysee palace in paris. no, we morning outside the elysee palace in paris . no, we haven't palace in paris. no, we haven't got it. okay. no problem . so got it. okay. no problem. so what he basically said was that smoking is a terrible cost to the nhs and a burden on the taxpayer. i've never heard such nonsense in all my life. the last time i looked, tobacco revenues were 4 to 5 times the

cost of treating people for tobacco related diseases. on the national health service. but that's not really the point. the point actually is, is this going to work? are we really going to have smoke free britain by 2030? well, let me ask you, are we going to have drug free britain? oh no, sorry. don't mention drugs because they're illegal and we've lost the war on illegal drugs. so we'll now fight a war against legal drugs. and it'll start with tobacco and it'll move on to alcohol. and goodness knows what else will we have? smoke free britain by 2030. give me your thoughts. farage gb news. com i don't think we will for one moment, and i think the danger is this, that you overtax something you overregulate something that is a legal product and you drive it into the hands of criminal gangs. in fact, there's evidence that that's already happening with very high tobacco taxes in our country. now, the most anti—smoking country i've ever been to is australia. you virtually can't smoke anywhere.

and a packet of fags is £35. this has had some pretty remarkable consequences. i'm joined down the line live by adrian foulk. australian media commentator. adrian, every time i go to australia, i'm just astonished at the cost of cigarettes and the level of prohibition. and what's the impact been on the licensed trade in australia ? trade in australia? >> sure. good evening nigel, and thank you so much for having me. well, the smoking bans kicked off here in 2016 in sydney. and obviously then followed through around australia, different states and territories. and while there was a little, you know, quieter times with pubs and outdoor bistros really here in australia, it's life as we've known it . it's kind of like in australia, it's life as we've known it. it's kind of like our lockout laws that happened here in australia in 2014, when they

stopped, live venues and pubs, even allowing people to enter from 130 in the, in the morning serving alcohol. so here in australia , you know, while we australia, you know, while we may be a bunch of convicts, they've definitely put a leash on us quite tightly. and, during the news about, you know , these the news about, you know, these these, you know, proposed smoking bans, we've been living like this for nine years, so most australians have been doing the math. you know, if you're 18 out now and about, you know, it wasn't, you know, since you were nine that you could, you know, you know, your parents could light up while enjoying a meal at a bistro. so really, people don't know any different anymore. i do believe that, yes, it did have some impact, initially, but . okay. yeah. initially, but. okay. yeah. >> okay. but but but you know , >> okay. but but but you know, adrian. come on. australia's problem is not that it's full of former convicts. australia's

problem is it's full of former prison officers. there's always the view that i've taken whenever i've gone there. but the consequences of tobacco pnces the consequences of tobacco prices have been astonishing. and i've been telling the british public or attempting to tell the british public about this today, you know, the criminal gangs in melbourne don't bother with cocaine. there's no point. there's no money in cocaine. the money is in cigarettes and this incredible gang warfare that we've seen . 97 firebombings of we've seen. 97 firebombings of shops and of people's houses related to the tobacco trade . related to the tobacco trade. isn't this a classic case that you overtax something, you push it beyond the reach of ordinary folk, and the serious criminal gangs take over. >> look here. you know, i think the cost of living crisis in australia has definitely taken a toll. we're a year behind everything else, just like when covid happened in australia, you know , our lockout laws, you know, our lockout laws, you know, our lockout laws, you know, our lockout laws, you know, our whole country was locked down. so i feel like the

taxing of things and regulations of cigarettes. and you're right, cigarettes here. i mean, i had to do a google search as a non—smoker. they're very hefty for anyone that's smoking. and, i believe that, you know, obviously there may be bigger issues at play there in terms of like, the back row wars that you have been seeing in the headlines, particularly in melbourne, that have been happening . but to get back to happening. but to get back to the point about, you happening. but to get back to the point about , you know, will the point about, you know, will pubs die in the uk and are people going to stop drinking? no, i don't believe so, you know, obviously people always like going out socialising well and even adrian, all i can tell you is all i can tell you is i went for a quick drink in the westminster arms before coming on this show. >> i've been going there 30 years. if i can't smoke outside, i'm never going back. adrian falk, thank you for joining me. sir george howarth joins me . sir george howarth joins me. former labour mp and junior

minister under tony blair and dame andrea jenkyns, former tory mp, joins me as well. george, we were talking earlier about the fact that there is a black market already in cigarettes in britain, isn't there? yeah >> and, you know, it is a problem and i don't deny for one minute that it won't be a problem if it's restricted even further . but problem if it's restricted even further. but my problem if it's restricted even further . but my own view problem if it's restricted even further. but my own view is that and i'm a smoker myself, i don't say it proudly, but it's a fact. it's your choice. yeah but what it's your choice. yeah but what ihave it's your choice. yeah but what i have noticed is that since the ban came in in its original form, i've cut down because there's fewer places i can actually smoke in. and i'm not unhappy about that. and the other point i would make, and i've realised, is that my smoking, whether it's outside a pub or somewhere else or even in the street , subjects other the street, subjects other people to the consequences of my smoking. not to the same extent. >> no , no, no, it certainly has >> no, no, no, it certainly has an impact. if you're in a pub

garden, you know nobody else has to share that smoke. >> they don't have to. but you go say, say, i go with my wife, i smoke, she doesn't. what's her choice ? she says, well, that choice? she says, well, that would always be my choice. yeah well come on, george. but she would object to it . and she's would object to it. and she's got a fair point in doing so. >> well, she married you, george. i mean, that's her choice . that's a different choice. that's a different issue, andrea. i mean, you know, we saw this with rishi. i mean, i made the point at the start. it's almost irrelevant who wins the elections. the, you know, we know what's good for you tendency from both parties is very strong, isn't it? >> it is. especially with the more centrist wing of the conservative party. but to me, i mean, i don't smoke, i've never smoked, never even tried it. i think you made a valid point earlier, actually, nigel, why we're not tackling the major drug problem in the country. >> we're not even discussing drugs. no, i can't believe it. >> and also, i just feel that. read starmer's at it again to assert control over the nation. i mean , i believe in freedom.

i mean, i believe in freedom. and if people want to smoke, that's up to them. and i can't see any problem with people smoking in a pub garden. but hang on a second. >> you were a conservative member of parliament under a prime minister who wanted to make anybody under the age of 14 neven make anybody under the age of 14 never, ever, ever legally be able to buy the product. >> no, but look, i'm when you're in a political party, i think george is the same, actually, that you don't agree with every single policy. i mean, you've seen i've been quite a critic of whoever the prime minister has been. really? and you can't agree with every policy. but ultimately, i'm a conservative, but i don't think it's very conservative to bring those kind of policies in. that's my view, george. >> most pubs have become restaurants, you know, all over the country. they have to serve food and that's fine. but you lose something very special. i've always said, and i'm not joking here. i've always believed that every pub is a parliament, that people gather in a pub, they talk about local issues, they talk about national issues, they talk about national issues, they talk about international issues. many times i've had my point of view changed by a conversation, but someone's put forward in a pub.

they're an important part of the community. they're important for lonely people. i just worry they're not going to survive this. look i've had some, like everybody else, some interested in sensible conversations with people in the pub over the years. >> frankly, i've also had conversations with people who are completely bonkers or not really in a state to have a debate . debate. >> probably the same in parliament too. definitely. but what i'm saying is pubs actually matter as part of a community. they're important, sure, but you know, it isn't , know, it isn't, >> there's a balance to be struck between the good health of the population as a whole . of the population as a whole. and i'm i particularly worry about young people , do you mean about young people, do you mean vaping and the freedom the vaping and the freedom the vaping phase is that craze. >> is that what you're talking about? >> yeah, because most vaping products, i think probably all of them have got nicotine in them. and so nicotine is a damaging substance and they're theyitis damaging substance and they're they it is it's a scientific fact. and so they are getting

into the habit. they might not ever go on to smoke, but they are taking in nicotine which will in the long term cause damage. >> i mean, there are millions of people every week taking illegal drugs. and i just think what starmer is doing, what sunak was trying to do , is they're dealing trying to do, is they're dealing with something that is legal because they've lost the war on illegal drugs for the time being. >> that is true, i think, but i think the problem is if you legalise it or at least take have a lighter touch. regulation of illegal drugs , more people of illegal drugs, more people will take it because no, no, i agree with that. >> i mean, you know, i worry about the amount of crime that is around drugs, but i do think that's why i wouldn't legalise cannabis, because more people would take it. yeah. >> and then what are they going to progress on to. yeah, absolutely. >> yeah. well i don't know folks. it's a debate that enrages me because i hate big government. i can't stand them telling us what to do. they all go to hell as far as i'm

concerned. that's how i've always felt about government. i've always had those libertarian instincts. but i think with illegal drugs, with the obesity crisis, there are many, many alcoholism. there are many, many alcoholism. there are many, many alcoholism. there are many, many problems in this country. it just seems that smoking is somehow the easy target. and my view is that actually what we've done with pubs and clubs is we've struck a compromise and one that works. and a lot of these establishments have spent a lot of money putting smoking shelters up, conforming with local councils. and i think this will do an enormous amount of harm to the traditional great british pub. one of the things, by the way, that is rather envied around the rest of the world now, sir keir today very interesting. germany yesterday , interesting. germany yesterday, france today and we've seen the rise of the afd in germany. we've seen the rise of marine le pen to the point where she may well become the next president of france. what sir keir was talking about today was british politics and talking about snake oil politics and the rise of the

far right. i think i what he's scared we'll debate all of that after the

break. so will britain be smoke free by 2030? lucia says. will the smoking ban include parliament smoking ban include parliament smoking room? well, actually, i think i can confirm there are no smoking rooms left in parliament. they call them that. there's a terrace which you have to brave in whatever the weather may be, chris says. try sitting next to a table full of smokers and tell me it doesn't affect others. typical smokers attitude. no no no no, this is not the argument. you know you don't have to, you know, if it was in a restaurant before you didn't have a choice because you were there having your lunch or whatever it may be and other

people affected you. we've reached a compromise. i think, that suits both sides. an anonymous says stopping smoking may save the short term cost, but in the long term, we live longer, so we have to go to the doctors more often than the hospital will be put in care homes. you're right. hospital will be put in care homes. you're right . auberon homes. you're right. auberon waugh used to argue that smokers were the heroes of the nation because they paid loads of money in tax and weren't such a burden on the pension system. now more serious stuff. let's get to sir keir starmer talking about the rise of populism in europe and what it might mean for british politics outside the elysee this morning. >> i am worried about the far right . i'm worried about right. i'm worried about populism and nationalism and the politics of the easy answer, the snake oil. if you like. and i think it's very important that we have a debate about how we confront that. my own personal view is that through delivery, through showing that there are progressive , democratic answers progressive, democratic answers to the many challenges we face is the way forward. but yes, that's a discussion that i'm very keen to have because i

think it's a very real threat . think it's a very real threat. >> i think he's very worried about the labour vote, very worried about the labour vote, especially in the midlands and the north, south wales, places like that. i mean, look, you know, 1100 people cross the channelin know, 1100 people cross the channel in the last two days. another 200 plus have come today. he knows that absolutely enrages people. i think he also knows his so—called smashed the gangsidea knows his so—called smashed the gangs idea simply isn't ever going to work. because even if you smash them, they're replaced by others. plus, the genuine concerns in britain about the rapidly rising population. i think this is an attempt to try to get the narrative out there that if somehow you think immigration is a really important issue, you shouldn't be thinking like that because that's the territory of the bad dudes, that's the territory of the far right. george. i guess it all depends really what we mean by far right, doesn't it? yes. >> i mean, there are people on the far right groups that have been manipulating these riots that clearly have to be

identified and clearly are breaking the law and have to be held accountable for what they've done. so that is a clear , they've done. so that is a clear, set of people that needs to be targeted. secondly, though, there are people in this country who genuinely have concerns about immigration and they need to at least feel that they're being listened to, not necessarily by any particular action, but simply that they think it's a problem. and what's the answer? and i think we need to have a proper debate in this country about immigration. >> yeah, we oh, we certainly need not just about the problems it might cause, but also about the benefits of it. you know, if we'd sat here 20 years ago, i think the vast majority of the population would say, you know what? the food's better. it's made life more interesting. you wouldn't get that reaction today, george, because the numbers have just been huge over the last 25 years. huge. >> well, as i say, there is a problem, you know, and it comes

up on the doorstep even in places like knowsley that are massively labour, but i think we've got to confront , you know, we've got to confront, you know, those who incite violence and discrimination, well that's fine then have a conversation. >> that's fine. but if the but if the implication is that is that everybody who thinks this is far right, that that it's an attempt to close down debate. and i think he's going in that direction . direction. >> well, i don't i mean, i think, you know , he's a kyrees a think, you know, he's a kyrees a long term lawyer was the chief prosecutor in the land. and he goes with evidence he would not, in my view, condemn someone just because they need we they think we need or say we need tighter immigration controls. >> andrea, i think that clip was very revealing . if you look at very revealing. if you look at what's happened in we're 54 days in now to a labour government, if you look at what's happened to his personal popularity rating, but interestingly,

what's happened to labour in the polls , particularly in the polls, particularly in the working class labour areas of the united kingdom , he's fearful. >> i think there's two points, actually. nigel he wants to make an enemy. he's trying to make a demon out of you. we know that. and the media as well, because they're trying to push that rhetoric because if they blame you for the riots, he knows that you for the riots, he knows that you are hot on their coattails in these labour seats for the next general election. so they're fearful of that. so that's the first point. now the second point, actually, nigel, is starmer and his globalist cabal do want to create an enemy. they do want to silence people and i seriously think that starmer believes anybody who supported brexit or patriotic want to control our borders, do not believe in a two tier policing system. a far right, in his view. >> yes, the two tier stuff is george. i mean, whether it's correct or not, we can debate, but the perception that we've got two tier policing, that if you're a white football supporter, you will get crackdown upon more heavily than if you're marching down regent

street shouting from the river to the sea. that is a real problem. >> absolutely. well that is something that, you know , a lot something that, you know, a lot of people are saying, but i don't think the evidence necessarily supports it. >> i saw in leeds. necessarily supports it. >> i saw in leeds . gerald, >> i saw in leeds. gerald, george. sorry, george. i saw in, in leeds, the blm took down our fantastic queen victoria statue , fantastic queen victoria statue, defaced it, and the police just stood by and let that happen. you know, if it was another group doing that, they wouldn't get away with it. and look at the just stop oil lot the way they caused damage. it's only recently that there have been the police have actually been doing something about this. >> well, we have i mean, sometimes the police are a bit reluctant to get involved, but i don't think it's two tier policing. i think it's overcautious policing. we had a riot in knowsley outside a, an asylum hotel. >> you do quite a big one. >> you do quite a big one. >> it was a very big one. and the police stood there and

watched the people who were protesting against the asylum seekers set fire to a police van and break through their own cordon twice. so it caused overly cautious police tactics. don't work. and whether that was the case in the incident you're talking about, i don't know, but if you say so, i'm to prepared accept it. >> well, i think the real point here, folks at home is we've got one view that we don't have two tier policing, another view that we do have two tier policing . we do have two tier policing. but i think the problem for the government and the problem for the police is that the perception that we do is gaining currency. do you see the point? i'm making? >> oh, i do, and, you know, i accept that perception in politics can be a mighty mover of not only votes, but people's minds, that's why i said i think we need to have a measured and sensible debate about

immigration, both the benefits and the potential . and the potential. >> i'd love to think we could have that, but i fear that keir starmer is trying to close that debate down. final word to andrew on this subject, >> look, we saw an example in manchester where the guy, you know , hurt a policewoman. he got know, hurt a policewoman. he got let off. but then we see people on social media who has even liked or retweeted a comment, getting into serious trouble. if that's not two tier policing, i don't know what is, let alone throw an egg at jeremy corbyn, go to prison, throw cement at me. >> nothing happens at all. but absolutely, exactly at the moment we're going to talk about winter fuel payments and how if you're one of the 10 million about to lose your winter fuel payment, how can you get onto pension credit? and we'll talk about the 243 question form. we'll also talk about drax, that massive power station up yorkshire that burns north american forests

so 10 million people will lose a winter fuel payment of either 2 or £300. unless you can get onto pension credit. i am. i must confess, i didn't know this before today, but the pension credit application form online of course. but we've printed one off here is 243 questions. the last one of which is what is your national insurance number, which i thought might have been the first question. is this being deliberately designed to stop pensioners getting on pension credit? well, one man has got a very strong opinion on this is frances moore, aged 67, from salisbury in wiltshire, and he joins me live down the line. i know you've spoken out on this issue.i i know you've spoken out on this issue. i mean, in your view, is this designed to stop people getting on pension credit ? getting on pension credit? >> delighted to be with you , >> delighted to be with you, nigel. thank you. yes, it's a simple answer. it is designed to

absolutely stop you claiming, it's not just dwp you're dealing with. you're dealing with hmrc as well , the whole situation is as well, the whole situation is very convoluted , very difficult, very convoluted, very difficult, and in my view, it's intended to stop you claiming pension credit. i have succeeded , but it credit. i have succeeded, but it was with massive determination. i succeeded , i fear for the many i succeeded, i fear for the many that are not as possibly accurately, able as i am to do this . and further, they've only this. and further, they've only got two weeks to do it in. so with the work at home dwp, the work at home, hmrc who the heck are they going to get through

this process in two weeks to be able to claim winter fuel allowance? i think it's disgusting . disgusting. >> frances, you've put that incredibly concisely and very, very well. thank you. that was quite powerful. wasn't it? >> he makes a point and there will be people who , at the will be people who, at the margins will suffer as a result. look at it. well, well i mean i was going to go on to make the point that, the great beauty about universal benefits , is about universal benefits, is that they're not overly bureaucratic. once you start means testing, you've got to establish where someone sits on a spectrum and where the cut off point is. so i in principle, i think where you can have them universal benefits are the simplest and sometimes the easiest , the most sensible way

easiest, the most sensible way to do it. and presumably cheap to do it. and presumably cheap to administer a means testing must be a very expensive by comparison. yeah, the only problem is with this particular benefit is that there are people. i think there's about 180,000 people. don't even bother taking it up . and i've bother taking it up. and i've got friends who are amongst that number. yeah who are quite wealthy. yeah, so those people, but some people who are quite wealthy probably are reeling it in. and so we need to find a way that doesn't penalise those who are vulnerable. and won't be able to afford it. on the one hand, but those who really shouldn't be getting it on. >> but i get that point, i suppose, you know, and i have signed up to the express campaign on this because i do feel one thing, you know, we've got the most expensive energy in europe. yeah. and double and more what the americans have got, i mean, and the debate about green energy and cost is a is a set. well, it's related,

but it's a slightly separate debate, how do you feel, damn, andrew, about this. >> i mean, i wonder if it's along because it's full of diversity questions , actually, diversity questions, actually, nigel, look, i think it's cruel. and having been an mp for nine years, i've helped lots of elderly people with forms filling serve my teams over the years. i'm sure you have as well, george. and they'll be overwhelmed and it's cruel. and, i mean, i was on morley high street yesterday. i launched my campaign because i thought i didn't want to step on the new mps toes , etc, but i can't stay mps toes, etc, but i can't stay silent over this. nigel i had a petition on the high street, a mini rally, and there's such anger on the street from our pensioners and i would like to. >> you really felt that? >> you really felt that? >> oh, my gosh. absolutely. and i got so many people to sign my petition and i will go out again. but i'd like to see every pensioner rise up across the uk. actually nigel, it's unfair, especially when you see what the spending on the global stage, the billions of pounds ,

the billions of pounds, grandstanding on net zero. yet they're punishing our pensions. >> i thought, i thought, you know, the way frances put it that, you know, he's 67. he clearly mentally is still very, very with it. he's able, as he said, it was a heck of a job. but it does disadvantage an awful lot of people who probably ought to be on pension credit. that's really the point, isn't it? >> yes. yes, maybe. >> yes. yes, maybe. >> i mean, that i think is the really strong point. >> i think there's a further point to be made, and that is that i don't think we're in the place we're going to end up in yet. and i think the pressure from people, labour mps , from people, labour mps, constituents, whether it's petitions or contacting them, they're going to say, hang on a minute , we need to tweak this so minute, we need to tweak this so that there's going to be a bit of give people, there's going to be a bit of give. >> in your view, there'll be some give on this. yes. >> i think interesting . yeah. >> i think interesting. yeah. >> i think interesting. yeah. >> although when we heard the speech a couple of days ago, it was a bit like private frazer from dad's army, wasn't it? we're all doomed. you know, the

budgefs we're all doomed. you know, the budget's going to be painful. >> well, i think rachel's got a particular job to >> well, i think rachel's got a particularjob to do, and she's doing it very effectively. she perhaps sometimes needs, as someone said to me yesterday, loosen up a bit. >> i think i like that what she's trying to do is right that now, i mentioned green energy a moment ago. >> i want the farage moment. drax, power station up in selby in yorkshire. i've mentioned it before on this programme. i mean, how completely insane is it that we cut down forests in lithuania or canada or north america , turn them into wood america, turn them into wood pellets, burn them in north yorkshire, they're massive emitters. the station itself of carbon dioxide. we do it in the name of being green. well, there's been an investigation by ofgem into the company and they found, yes, they've been using wood from unsustainable sources. therefore drax have been fined £25 million, which sounds an awful lot until you realise they

get £500 million a year in subsidies . what is going on? subsidies. what is going on? >> i mean, i think, look, the markets will adjust . if they're markets will adjust. if they're getting all these subsidies, businesses will adjust. so that's what they're doing. however, i think what the problem is in parliament, cross—party is so homogenised all the same view pushing this net zero. there's no true scrutiny. net zero watched is a fabulous job at scrutinising, but there's very few people in parliament doing that. and what what i think really what we should be looking at is energy security and low costs for the consumer. >> this is extraordinary. i mean, george, you spent many, many years in parliament. you know, the power of the lobby, big businesses can be very, very effective at getting through to ministers, to civil servants. i just find this drax situation an absolute monstrosity. >> i mean, i think first of all, and you kind of indicated as indeed as andrea that , the indeed as andrea that, the penalties that are applied , it's penalties that are applied, it's not just, by the way, in the

energy industry, it's true also in the water industry are not sufficient to deter this sort of activity. >> it's like a membership fee almost, aren't they? >> no, exactly. >> no, exactly. >> i mean, that's pretty much what they are built into. >> the cost of doing model. yeah. and i think so i think that's correct. and i also but i think it's important to say this, energy security, i spent 11 years on the intelligence and security committee, and, and this is going back a few years now. and one of the big problems they were concerned about was they were concerned about was the lack of energy security. and we're seeing now how an overdependence on russia, for example, isn't sustainable. so we've got to move towards a situation where we're producing cleanly and effectively our own energy. >> oh, look, i mean, you know, we import on average 9% of our electricity from europe. it is absolutely crackers. the only argument for drax is that it does burn 24 over seven, but the fact that we're giving it half a

billion, it's had £7 billion in subsidies since it started. i think that's crazy. now, one year ago, sadiq khan did something very, very controversial and it's feared by many that this will roll out across many other parts of the country. indeed, to some extent it has in other big cities. yet one year ago the ulez extension went on to the very limits of greater london. in a moment we debate has it actually

it's exactly one year ago today that the ulez extension came in. it's something that i felt very strongly about living as i do, right on the borders of greater london and kent and the furthest, the very furthest point away from central london in a tonbridge postcode that

somehow finished up in the 1960s in london. and i've really felt this just doesn't work, because the only people that pay the £12.50 ulez charge are generally older people, or poorer people who haven't got modern cars , and who haven't got modern cars, and in particular a lot of sole traders, a lot of people with vans doing deliveries or whatever it may be, i've never seen such anger in our local community over any political issue, and it was right across the board, of course , i haven't the board, of course, i haven't paid ulez. i don't need to. i've got a good job, i've got a car that complies. but i just think there's been a deep injustice with this. and i don't think for any environmental benefit. but i do wonder now because the labour government already have signalled that low traffic neighbourhoods, ulez star zones and maybe even ultimately road pricing are the direction that we are going in. and, you know, the idea, george, that, you know, a labour mayor of london

taxes the poor but not the rich is pretty monstrous. >> well, i think first of all, it's fair to say, nigel, that i'm sure sadiq didn't target you personally. >> no, no no no , my community, >> no, no no no, my community, not me, i mean, but yeah. >> no, i know i by, locating it there . there. >> having said that, you know, there are benefits. there have been two studies, one by the university of bath and the other the university of bristol, which have found , first of all, that have found, first of all, that the number of respiratory, lung and heart problems, that are happening in those areas that are in ulez has gone down markedly. i think it's around 8%. and the other one, which was into the economics of it , 8%. and the other one, which was into the economics of it, has found that the number of cars that are for at it causing emissions has gone down as well. so there are positive results

now. at the time, i have to admit, i was a bit worry about it. well, i think the evidence is starting to actually arrive now. that shows that it is working in terms of health. >> if you want to be healthy in london, don't get the london underground because that air quality is absolutely appalling, far worse than being next to a major dual carriageway, the a13 or the m4, or wherever it may be. i just find it a huge hypocrisy in all of this. >> is that correct? >> is that correct? >> yes it is. no, it really isn't. >> seen any evidence? >> seen any evidence? >> i've seen some very strong evidence that the london underground, the air pollution levels are horrid. george, you know, louise hay's already indicated that low traffic neighbourhoods. you know, where roads get closed off, that the anti—car drive is going to continue. there's even rumours that we may get some quite big fuel hikes in the budget coming up . you know, if you live in the up. you know, if you live in the middle of london, you don't need a car, i get that. yeah. i mean

i buy that probably in manchester the seine and but but but actually is this reasonable and fair on most working people. >> i think it's difficult because you're quite right about london. it's got an outstandingly good public transport system, >> maybe not good air quality, but good public transport. >> even in urban areas like, knowsley that i used to represent. >> yeah, i as the mp, i couldn't get from one end to the other of the constituency to the other without first going. if i wanted to use public transport without first going into liverpool and then going out again. yeah whereas i could get to the other end of it in seven minutes in my own car. so you've got to have a pubuc own car. so you've got to have a public transport system that will support people to make quick, efficient and comfortable journeys. and we haven't got that , journeys. and we haven't got that, certainly not journeys. and we haven't got that , certainly not outside of that, certainly not outside of london. and we need to work on that. but it's a long term project . project. >> i sometimes feel, andrea, that it's the middle class

pubuc that it's the middle class public sector pro cycling lobby are completely gonna dominate the whole debate on this. >> definitely. they want everyone to ride a bike, don't they? i'm too lazy for that. am i correct? but but in my sort of constituency, when leeds did this clean air zone. yeah, again under labour, it was affecting the small businesses. the van drivers. it was affecting the lgv , transport companies and, lgv, transport companies and, and some was going out of business. nigel. and what i fear under labour, i mean , god knows under labour, i mean, god knows why they re—elected. khan in london. but i think we're going to see this replicated in every town and city over britain. it feels like it. >> i think it feels like it, by the way, i've just had in my ear some stats from 2019 that the air quality on the london underground was 30 times worse by particulate than being next to a main road, so but but you know, that's the first i've heard of that. yeah. no, no it really is quite strong. i mean .

really is quite strong. i mean. it really is isn't it. the poor that pay the price for this. >> absolutely, absolutely. >> absolutely, absolutely. >> it's the poor. it's the small. >> the ones who buy the second hand cars got their old bangers and they can't afford the. >> and yet if we go back to the start of this programme, my opening sentence, it doesn't much matter anymore whether a labour win, elections or conservative win elections. who was the big champion for ulez to begin with? one. boris johnson. so we don't really have much open debate on this stuff, do we? >> well, as i said earlier, nigel, it is, but no, but look at the whole, green agenda in parliament. every party, you know, obviously , besides reform know, obviously, besides reform every party over the last few decades have been trying to push this net zero agenda. >> they have. and leeds, what's the impact of the zone been not much impact. >> there's still lots of cars going into. it's still busy and it's still, you know, stuck in traffic. yeah absolutely. yeah. i mean but as as george quite rightly said, if you haven't got the infrastructure and the networks and you've got useless

bus service as well, then people are not going to look at other routes, are they? >> ultimately, are we going to all finish up with black boxes in our car and be charged per mile where we drive and where we go around the country? >> road pricing? i mean, it's not something at the moment i'd support, but it may well be. i mean, the one thing we need to accept is that motoring cars , accept is that motoring cars, diesel or petrol are major causes of air pollution . causes of air pollution. >> yes, but they are getting better, aren't they? >> co2? they are getting a lot better. they are getting better. and. but you know we so we need to get people i mean when i was a child and even i suspect when you were children, the number of cars on the road were far less than now. the level of congestion was far less than now. and, you know , i find it, now. and, you know, i find it, for example, i find it really disheartening when i go past a

school that as the children are going into school, cars everywhere, and there's a big queue of cars. >> yeah. and the parents probably only live like 200 or 300 yards away, you know, and thatis 300 yards away, you know, and that is bonkers. >> there is more traffic, there are more people, of course, which is part of that, although, i mean, it seems almost most families now are 2 or 3 car families. they really, really are road pricing. angela, is that where we're going in the end , end, >> i think let's watch khan because i think it was going to happen. khan will do it over the next few years. yeah if anyone's going to do it, he will do it. >> i do wonder now. great car enthusiast of course, is jacob rees—mogg , who does drive 1 or 2 rees—mogg, who does drive 1 or 2 motorcars. that may not be the cleanest and greenest, but they're old enough to be exempt. yeah, i know you just about get away with it. i don't know what you think, jacob, but i just feel every indication of where we're going with motoring policy is leading towards ultimately tom moore. you're right. >> i think that is the aim. i

think the bureaucracy wants it and the politicians will fall into line as they tend to do. and your point is so right. all our voters are motorists , almost our voters are motorists, almost all of them, and they like their cars and anti—car policy has ruled governments since margaret thatcher was prime minister. perhaps a little bit of john major was pro motorist, but since then it's been anti motorist anti—matter anti motorist. and this is the classic of the blob and a new conservative government or a new reform government should be avowedly pro motorist and should get rid of all of this and get rid of road pricing, because road pricing is an attack on freedom as well. it's to monitor you well, literally everywhere you well, literally everywhere you go at any moment in time, you go at any moment in time, you could be trapped, but we'll be told it'll it'll it'll help us with crime. that's such a bogus argument. it's one they use the whole time to use security, because nobody can investigate what security really means. >> big interview with robert jenrick playing tonight on your show. >> that's right. robert kindly gave me an interview. we'll be broadcasting that and discussing

it, seeing whether he has the answers that people want for a future tory leader. does he have the right answers on immigration? does he have the right answer on taxation, what does he think of nigel farage? >> and is he a genuine convert? >> and is he a genuine convert? >> that's my first question to him. >> interesting. well, we'll find out. we'll get the answers from jacob. he absolutely won't give them to me right now because he wants you to stay with him until after the news. i'll be in the car listening in very intently. thanks, everybody . i'm back on thanks, everybody. i'm back on monday. tuesday next week i'll be with you. let's see what the weather's got for us. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news >> good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather update. brought to you from the met office friday. it's going to be a cool but sunny start to the last day of the week and a settled day more widely across the uk as high pressure builds in from the south and west. that will boost low pressure out of

the way . so after the rather the way. so after the rather unsettled day across parts of scotland, it will slowly turn dry as we head into friday, but still a few showers to come through this evening, particularly across the far north of scotland. the northern isles in particular, where there's a brisk westerly breeze. elsewhere, though, a settled and calm night to come. clear skies across the board, temperatures falling away lower than they did last night . we could be down to last night. we could be down to 3 or 4 degrees rurally. many towns and cities in single figures. and as the sun comes up a little later, at the moment it will feel a little bit fresher . will feel a little bit fresher. when you step out on friday morning. there could be some mist and fog around as well, particularly across parts of the west country. really in wales, some areas around the pennines as well could see some fog. first thing, a few showers still across the west of scotland, but it's particularly the northern areas of scotland where there's areas of scotland where there's a risk of some showers. there won't be as heavy as they will have been today and they should ease as we head towards lunchtime and into the afternoon. as well as that, as high pressure becomes more dominant, bringing many of us a fine day. and now i think the

best of the sunshine for most of us will be through the morning. a bit more cloud will develop into the afternoon, but it will still feel warm enough in the sunshine with light winds quite widely. a slightly warmer day than today to come tomorrow. highs of 24 or 25 degrees across south and eastern areas of england . temperatures in the england. temperatures in the high teens, low 20s quite widely elsewhere. now another fresh start to the day to come on saturday. and then we start to see a risk of some thundery downpours across the south throughout saturday lunchtime. there may just be a bit more cloud filling in and i think very few of us will actually see these downpours. but there is a risk of some heavy showers across southern areas and that risk increases more across southern areas on sunday. and then more widely into monday. but temperatures staying just above average, a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on

outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weath to on outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weath to whether we should minister to whether we should pause net zero can and should decarbonise our economy over time.

taxes on working people by increasing fuel duty. they just hate the motorist. state of the nafion hate the motorist. state of the nation starts now . nation starts now. i'll also be joined by my most intellectual panel. gb news is senior political commentator nigel nelson and the conservative peer and journalist paul goodman . as ever, i want to paul goodman. as ever, i want to hear your views. it's a crucial part of the programme mailmogg@gbnews.com. but now it's one of your favourite parts of the day. the news bulletin, with sophia wenzler. >> nigel. thank you. good evening from the gb newsroom . evening from the gb newsroom. it's just gone 9:00. your top story this hour. the prime minister has confirmed a ban on outdoor smoking is being considered because of the huge burden smoking puts on the nhs and the taxpayer, according to what the sun newspaper says. a

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