is taking angela rayner's new four day working week rather literally. i'm joined by apprentice star mark ryan parsons , spin doctors peter parsons, spin doctors peter barnes, andy williams and the formidable dame andrea jenkyns. tonight on the show , over to you, andy. >> freebies for mps may not be popular, but they're inevitable. pete >> the labour party, just after being in office for weeks, are already under investigation for sleaze. >> should we cancel notting hill carnival? >> andrea, the labour government drops free speech laws after universities fear interest regarding china. >> and mark ryan, the labour party want to reduce the working week to four days. are they justifying laziness? >> this is 6 pm. and this is

the saturday five. sorry, i did mean ryan . mark, by the way, mean ryan. mark, by the way, make a correction. >> makes a mistake. >> makes a mistake. >> we want to get the show off to a good start this week. so welcome to the saturday five. thank you all for your lovely messages coming in on my debut presenting tonight. i can't promise it's going to be smooth, but it will be great tv nonetheless. and for those of you who don't know me, obviously i'm not the alex armstrong from pointless, but i can promise tonight's show will be anything but pointless. also making his debut, we've got ryan mock from the apprentice with us. >> hello, hello, hello. thank you for having me. >> let's hope he's improved his negotiation skills, because he's definitely going to need them tonight. yeah. don't fire me. hopefully not by the end of the show. we've also got our very own spin doctors, alastair campbell, in the form of andy williams and a dom cummings in the form of peter barnes. no dodgy dossiers or mysterious trips to durham tonight planned, ihope trips to durham tonight planned, i hope guys. no, not so fast. >> no. >> no. >> we'll see, we'll see. so far,

so good. and there's no one better to keep us men in line than the indomitable dame andrea jenkyns, who i hear is very good at smashing balls. sorry. ed balls, is that right? i believe so, i believe so. well, now you all know how this goes. each guest outlines their argument about a chosen topic, and then we all pile in, like a brexit debate in a room full of ramona's. well, you know the drill, but i want to hear your views, so please send them in to gb news. com forward slash yoursay. no topics are off limits for your questions and ask the five, so please keep them coming. i really, really want to hear from you all at home. it's so important. you are the most important part of this show. but before all of this, it's your headlines with the wonderful sophia wenzler. >> alex. thank you. good evening from the gb newsroom. it's just gone 6:00. your top story this houn gone 6:00. your top story this hour. a 32 year old mother and a man who were attacked in separate incidents during the notting hill carnival weekend

have now died. cher. maximin was stabbed at the carnival while attending the event with her three year old child. the 32 year old was taken to hospital in a critical condition, but despite the best efforts of medical staff, she died from her injuries. meanwhile mercy nato, who worked as a top chef, was found unconscious on monday evening near notting hill and also died from his injuries. metropolitan police said the deaths have been devastating for both families and they were both now being treated by the force as murder investigations . police as murder investigations. police in the west midlands are actively investigating the fatal stabbing of a 13 year old boy. a murder inquiry has been launched following the tragic incident in oldbury on thursday, with no arrests yet made. west midlands police have assured the public that those responsible will be brought to justice. chief superintendent kim madill is urging residents to come forward with any information and we are following active lines of

enquiry to find the suspects. >> we know that the incident took place inside his home, and i would appeal to anyone who has information to come forward. we have local officers and youth workers in the area over the coming days, so please speak to them directly if you have any concerns or information that you would like to pass to us. >> in other news, a newly elected labour mp has issued a pubuc elected labour mp has issued a public apology over reports of serious faults in some of his london rental properties. jas athwal, who represents ilford south, owns 15 flats where tenants have complained about black mould and ant infestations. he says he's shocked at the reports and vowed to take immediate action to address the issues . travellers address the issues. travellers at heathrow are facing disruption as border force staff go on strike today. around 650 members of the pcs union have walked out in a protest over

rota disputes, with strikes lasting four days. further disruption is expected from wednesday as workers refuse to do overtime, leading to an overtime ban from the 4th of september. despite the escalating tensions, the home office says it's committed to continuing the conversation to resolve the dispute . right resolve the dispute. right leaning politicians are on the cusp of winning the most votes in german state elections for the first time since the second world war. the decade old afd is likely to win in former communist states of thuringia. whilst they are expected to tie in saxony, the anti—immigration party has seen surging support following a knife attack in western germany last week when three people were alleged to have been killed by a member of the islamic state. however, the anti—establishment party is unlikely to have the seats needed to form a local government with other parties refusing to collaborate. the social media platform x has been bannedin social media platform x has been banned in brazil after a long

standing disinformation row. the move follows a feud between elon musk and the brazilian supreme court over a failure to block accounts accused of spreading fake news and hate. in response, elon musk posted on x, calling the move an attack on the number one source of truth. the oasis comeback tour shows have started to sell out for some dates after fans have been scrambling to secure tickets error messages and glitches are hampering people's attempts to land a spot on the reunion tour. ticketmaster one of the major sellers, insists their site hasn't crashed , but fans are hasn't crashed, but fans are still reporting outages and long queues. now us rapper fatman scoop has died at the age of 53. that's according to his tour manager . that's according to his tour manager. bass drop. bass drop. the artist, whose real name was isaac freeman, had been taken to

hospital after collapsing on stage during a performance in connecticut in the us on friday. in a statement, his management said we are heartbroken to announce the passing of our dear friend and client. scoop had success around the world and topped the uk singles chart in 2003 with be faithful , and topped the uk singles chart in 2003 with be faithful, and parts of england could see flooding this weekend as heavy rain and thunderstorms sweep across the south—west. the met office has issued a yellow warning for flooding power cuts and travel disruption . up to 75mm of rain disruption. up to 75mm of rain could fall in under an hour with lightning, hail and strong winds also posing threats. despite the uncertainty, residents across southern and central england are being urged to stay alert for sudden severe weather. those are the latest gb news headlines. for now, i'm sophia wenzler more in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code ,

alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . slash alerts. >> thanks very much, sophia and welcome back to the saturday five. did you know sophia actually booked me on my first show a couple of years ago? how serendipitous is that? anyway welcome back everybody. i'm alex armstrong and we've got a cracking show ahead for you. thanks for all your lovely comments coming in on our line—up. tonight we're cracking line—up. tonight we're cracking line—up. we have got a panel, a. well, let's get started with today's first debate. i'm going today's first debate. i'm going to kick off. so i'm taking advantage of the chair. and we've obviously heard the horrendous news of the death of an innocent mother and chef who were stabbed at notting hill carnival just last week. and since 2022, there has been a shocking 50% increase in crimes committed at the street festival. with over 300 arrests this year alone. they include multiple sexual assaults, possession of offensive weapons and attacks on emergency workers. and last time i

checked, attacks on emergency workers kept the courts open for 24 hours to prosecute those criminals. i wonder what two turkey's got to say about that. well, let's compare that to five days of glastonbury that only saw 89 arrests. none of those included stabbings or possession of offensive weapons. notting hill carnival is meant to demonstrate the best of british afro—caribbean communities in the uk, but instead it's become a carnival of death , drugs and a carnival of death, drugs and destruction not something that i know most afro—caribbean people would, would, would agree with. so we should move. so should we move the festival to hyde park, or should we just shut it down completely? andy, what do you think? should we shut down notting hill carnival after this consistent year on year increase in crime ? no. in crime? no. >> absolutely not. it's incredibly important moment in the calendar for the afro—caribbean community. as you said , it is largely and of said, it is largely and of course, there are these awful incidences. and, you know, any violent crime must be condemned . violent crime must be condemned. but the reality is that this is as a cultural moment, as a celebration for the vast

majority of people who attend notting hill, notting hill carnival and by the way, it's 2 million people over a weekend right now. again, not condoning it, but if you have 2 million people in a small space over two days, i'm afraid. unfortunately there will be crime committed. and you're comparing apples with oranges. i'm afraid , alex, oranges. i'm afraid, alex, because glastonbury is about one tenth of that number of people. so of course it's not the same level. and i mean, we haven't even talked about the riots recently where there were far more arrests and there was far more arrests and there was far more violent crime. so i just don't think there's a comparison. i think it's an incredibly important event that needs to be maintained in its home. it can't just be moved anywhere else like any other event. >> well, how do we make the event safe? i think if we moved the event, there would be precautions put in place like we do at glastonbury where you've got, you know, potentially metal detectors, more police, more control. what do you think, dame andrea? >> i mean, i'm just thinking at the moment, as a mother of the lady who died, who had children, it's horrific and it's tragic and i, i think this should be a wake up call for starmer, for

also for khan , it's got to be also for khan, it's got to be handled differently next year, without a doubt. i do think we need more of a yes like you said. i take your point. 2 million people, but we can't have any more people dying. i mean, a 58% increase is ridiculous. it's unsustainable. is it going to be 70% next year? well, quite so. >> so, pete, what can we do? and what what do you think should we should do. should we shut it down? i mean, it's obviously getting worse. people are dying. we don't have any deaths last year at all, as far as i'm aware. and so it seems like it's becoming an untenable situation for people across london. >> staggers me about the notting hill carnival is every year we have this exact debate. we say we should do something different next year. i'm pretty sure people said the same thing last yeah people said the same thing last year. we keep going round and round and round because of this rather preposterous argument that it's just a few bad apples. well, i hate to tell you people, but a few bad apples could still do a lot of damage. and we've just seen that a poor woman, a mother and a gentleman who's a chef as well, you know, this, this girl is going to grow up without a mother.

>> and it also shows that you think because the knife crime and drug crime has gone through the roof in london, i think that must be contributing as well. yeah >> in my opinion, this, this poor woman and this gentleman are sacrificed on the altar of diversity. and that's what it is because there's too many people keep kind of casting aside, saying, oh, no, it's all about diversity. and everybody holding hands and singing kumbaya. well, i hate to break it again. people are dying at these events and i'm not in favour of banning it, but i do think we have to move it. it has to be policed correctly. i'm still surprised there is no kind of central organisation to this. it's just a little hodge podge of people kind of putting it all together. so nothing is ever held accountable for it. >> it is hard to control. i mean, i went to notting hill carnival for the first time. >> well, i was going to ask, have you been. no >> yeah. this year, for the first time, i absolutely loved it. and they actually did have metal detectors. lots of police like the whole of the met police were there. >> but i was waving flags though, or was he actually police? yeah, well that's it. >> i mean, huge, huge amounts of crowds. >> i was so intimidated walking

through the crowds and you could see violence happening. lots of arrests taking place, whether we can move it. i don't think that's possible because that is the home of the carnival. exactly. hill carnival. i don't think it's not just an event that you. >> that's exactly right. it's not just an event that you can drag and drop into another location. this is not a corporate event. this is not just something that somebody came up with. there's no profit making. we want to save lives. right? but do we say but it's about the it's about the heritage of the event. and it's about the culture of the event that celebrates. >> so you've got to answer the deatbsaedftbe crime? ,, , so you've deatbsraercictbe crime? ,, , so you've got answer the >> so you've got to answer the question, how many of these question, how many of these incidences are you willing to incidences are you willing to tolerate to keep the diversity tolerate to keep the diversity element of it? that's the real element of it? that's the real question. >> it's not. so, ryan wahaca, question. >> it's not. so, ryan wahaca, you're in favour of keeping it you're in favour of keeping it in notting hill? in notting hill? >> absolutely. i think it needs >> absolutely. i think it needs to be there. as andy was saying, to be there. as andy was saying, it celebrates its heritage and it celebrates its heritage and it celebrates its heritage and it celebrates its heritage and it has to be there moving it to it has to be there moving it to hyde park. i mean, or any other hyde park. i mean, or any other genenc hyde park. i mean, or any other generic location. i just don't genenc hyde park. i mean, or any other generic location. i just don't think that really recognises its think that really recognises its heritage and why we celebrate heritage and why we celebrate the carnival dame andrew, the carnival dame andrew, obviously we've heard from sadiq khan today, but nothing from two obviously we've heard from sadiq khan today, but nothing from two tick here. >> what's he up to? do you think tick here. >> what's he up to? do you think he should come out and have a he should come out and have a

national statement about the deaths and the crime? national statement about the deaths and the crime? >> exactly two completely. i mean, this is so tragic and as we've said, it's increasing each year that the prime minister should be out there and actually making people feel safer. >> absolutely, pete. >> absolutely, pete. >> okay. well, two, two, take he can't say anything on this one because he can't blame the far right for it. so of course he's been quiet. he's nothing to say as he you know, he's rather ridiculous. for me it has to be moved because again, we've seen incident after incident after incident. and i always think the one murder might just be one too

of for the chopping block of saturday? five? i think it's you, dame andrea jenkyns, is it not? >> it certainly is. yeah. well the labour government has dropped free speech law after universities feared for china interests. now, i was the former universities minister and i was tasked with bringing the free speech bill through parliament. now, the bill protected free speech of both students , speech of both students, lecturers. and we've seen so many high profile cases of lecturers being no platformed or even losing their jobs for having a different view to left wing student activists. now, this week , labour cancelled this this week, labour cancelled this free speech bill in part because they fear that the act could cause difficulties with countries such as china. yes, you heard that right. starmer's government is bowing down to communist china, who has some of the worst curtailing of free speech globally by cancelling free speech here in britain. i think read starmer is a disgrace. >> well, interesting. andy, what do you make of all of this? is this government becoming more communist by the day? is it

leaning into china or is it all just nonsense? >> yeah, it's a load of nonsense. i mean, the idea, the idea that this labour government is communist, i mean, is just laughable. and any any kind of language like that. i mean, i've seen so much look at the conversation. no, no, no, no. but hang on with all this conversation about it's an authoritarian government and they're just i mean, it's just it's not true. there is no there is. i'm sorry. there is just. no, there is no evidence of this whatsoever during the riots there needed to be a strong message sent out to people who were inciting. and, you know, it's one thing setting out a strong point of view on twitter or whatever platform it is. it's another thing inciting violence and hatred online. and i'm afraid that's a criminal offence. and so it should be. and we cannot have a scenario where people i'm sorry, i don't believe in absolute freedom of speech.i believe in absolute freedom of speech. i believe there have to be limits on freedom of speech. and i think keir starmer is absolutely right to impose them. now, what do you make of this pete. obviously we've seen sorry. are we saying there should be no limits on freedom of speech.

>> do you think he's right to cancelit >> do you think he's right to cancel it to bill the bill. >> the free universities in on on that particular bill? i think that's a challenging one. but i think if you look at the overall outlook of the starmer government, so far, i really, really don't think it's this authoritarian communist nightmare in the way that it's being positioned. >> for me, if you actually look at the bill itself, one of the things it's actually really focused on is giving academics the freedom to research into major areas. one thing that you always brought up over this is the cass report that was into puberty blockers. most of that research was quashed or is underfunded because of universities not being not pushing and not being able to have access to the proper research materials because they didn't like it. but that report on academic freedom, the united kingdom ranks 66th in the world, behind burkina faso and georgia. you know, this this bill was so important about not just in terms of students access to information, but in terms of britain moving forward. academically, we have some of the best universities in the world, so why not try and make them better? it also does away back. it also does away with

non—disclosure agreements. >> yes. which actually it's imposed on a lot of students. you know, if there's some sexual relationship going on with with lecturers and students and it's going to do away with that. so this protects people. and i think it's appalling that this is i don't know if i completely agree with i don't know if anybody saw the response from the government over its criticism of when it was criticised for pulling the bill. >> they said it was to stop holocaust deniers having access to the campuses and stuff like that. that bill has this bill has nothing to do with that. well, there's infuriated me, actually. >> there's a worrying trend, don't you think that, you know, we saw the ceo of telegram locked up in has been arrested in france. we saw today that brazil are going to shut down x formerly known as twitter. right. mark, what do you think of all of this is free speech under threat now with socialists sort of in government across most of the world? >> yeah, i find it quite harrowing. and i think of my friends, i'm 24, a lot of my friends, i'm 24, a lot of my friends are at university going back to their masters for example, and i feel like they're getting starved of accessing all kinds of debates and discussion and free speech. and i think

that's essential. you need to be able to go to university to hear able to go to university to hear a vast array of opinions from all kinds of speakers. and i think that's the beauty of free speech and western democracy. and i think what the labour government is doing is actually taking that away. i am very concerned for people my age that aren't really getting the right access to that. >> what do you make of these criticisms of the labour government more generally on freedom of speech? because of course, we've seen quite a lot of that recently. how do they combat this? what is what is going to be starmer's line when people start turning around and saying, well, actually you're you're leaning into this censorship stuff. you're cutting freedom of speech bills. how do how does labour respond, andy? >> well, actions speak louder than words. and i think actually when people look at the facts and if you look at the let's, let's see what happens over the next few months. but i don't think you're going to see the advancement of a really authoritarian agenda from this labour government. i just really don't. it's not in their blood, actually. the irony is that lots of the people, the same people who are criticising starmer for being soft on crime. and by the way, if you look at his record, that's absolutely not the case. in fact, he's been accused of

being too authoritarian on crime. >> that's not my view of the community. >> de—man el—sisi is there some criticism of the conservative party? obviously, they oversaw a lot of these policies that starmer is using today. so how how do the tories recover from that ? that? >> i think the main issue is, i mean, when i was a minister, even with tasked with trying to bnng even with tasked with trying to bring this through, the civil service is so woke. they're trying to block you at every level. i mean, look at pretty. she got accused of being a bully and thankfully boris backed her because we know pretty. she's certainly not a bully just because she was challenging civil servants. so there's so much blockage. we do need to change the way in the top levels of civil servants and have more like we have in the us. >> i think that's that's a really, genuinely interesting question. >> how do you think that would how would that manifest itself? how could we improve that situation? because you know, you know, you you're the ex—minister here. so i absolutely and i've heard that from other people as well. how would we make a step change in terms of how the civil service? >> what i think we need to do is, obviously the opposition party government, if it looks like they're going to go into

government, they need to be getting their people ready . it's getting their people ready. it's more of a political role, isn't it, to ensure that actually legislation can get through? i mean, we saw with rwanda it had so many blocks from civil servants and unions. that's that's so undemocratic. quite. >> well, i'd probably get rid of them all. and start again. frankly, i think that might be the only way to move on. anyway, coming up next, on the saturday, saturday five, we'll be discussing whether members of parliament should give up freebies. freebies from tobacco, alcohol and junk food firms because they apparently caused so much illness and death. i wonder . what for? sorry. i beg wonder. what for? sorry. i beg your pardon. everybody what former andrea jenkins thinks of this with your with the saturday five. we'll be back in just a minute.

welcome back to the saturday five. sorry about that. there. i

got a little lost in the autocue, as always. thank you for all your lovely emails about the topics coming in tonight. i've got a couple here from our from our viewers. sylvie says when the new year's eve fireworks are arranged, it's a ticketed event with limited people. why can't carnival be the same? move it or lose it. job done. interesting, i think i agree with you. there sylvie, we've got another one here from dina saying , we've got another one here from dina saying, shut it we've got another one here from dina saying , shut it down. it's dina saying, shut it down. it's become too violent and needs to become too violent and needs to be moved to a park where it can be moved to a park where it can be properly policed. interesting stuff. right? anyway, we're moving on now. it's time for our next debate. who's up next? i think it might be andy williams. >> might be me, mps are being urged to stop accepting freebies to sports and cultural events from tobacco, alcohol and junk food firms and others because their products are harmful in many ways. now, it might not be popular , but the reality is that popular, but the reality is that this is just how the world works. as long as these gifts, these hospitality awards are transparently declared, i think it's a perfectly legitimate

thing to do for mps and for government to engage with businesses, because that's how they learn more about issues, how they can understand better what it is that businesses need. and as long as it's all done in the right way , i don't think the right way, i don't think it's a bad thing. >> andrea, what do you make of this? obviously, you've been in politics for longer than any of us have, but more than ten minutes at least. have you ever had any freebies given to you? >> not with tobacco or anything like that. yeah. as mps you go on delegations abroad , so, i on delegations abroad, so, i mean, we went on one, i went on one with angela rayner. >> actually, there must have been fun. it wasn't to ibiza, was it? no >> it's like an exchange with congressman where you go over there, spend time. and it was with a tea party candidate. >> right, right, >> right, right, >> so that was interesting. but that was all legit, etc. but but i'm actually more concerned, labour said that they was going to clean up politics. look at the freebies that they've been getting. i mean, angela rayner, she had, the use of a flat in, in new york over the new year

worth £4,000. we saw taylor swift concert tickets for starmer at four grand, the donor who gave the labour party, half a million, got his suits and glasses paid for, and then he got given a number 10 pass. so i think it's actually the public do not trust politicians and we've got to clean it up and it's got to start from the top. and i think that is starmer has set a completely bad example. >> ryan. mark, what do you make of all of that? well, i agree with andrea and andy. >> but i on the starmer point, i think it's entirely hypocritical because as leader of the opposition , starmer actually opposition, starmer actually said he would restore standards to public life, but actually it seems to be the opposite. it's transpired to be the opposite. and i think what andy was saying at the start, as long as it is completely transparent, which it is when it comes to receiving gifts wherever they're from. parliament website has registered interest . i can registered interest. i can actually see any kind of gift or whatever it may be. if the mp is working in a second job, it's all declared there and the

pubuc all declared there and the public can access it. >> so that is what is, i'd say, quite an interesting view on this, because i kind of do this for a living, you know, facilitate the businesses with politicians. so but the thing is, i think you hit an interesting word there, andrea. i think that was the word trust. i think that was the word trust. i think that was the word trust. i think the one thing politicians need to do is rebuild trust. and i actually think maybe banning some of this stuff would go a long way to, especially at the top levels of government, the top level in particular, you know, the reason we have so much discontent on the streets is because nobody trusts each other. institutional decline is at rock bottom now, and i think maybe just pulling back and some of the privileges that mps have, and it may be a good way of stepping forward in the public view. and i think maybe a good way. and i know i won't be popular for saying this, and i hate myself for saying this. drop the subsidised bars in parliament. i think a lot of this stuff would go a long way to saying to the public, look, we're listening. we get, you're not happy. >> i think that's one thing, and i think that that actually would, you know, the fact that i'm still surprised by how few people know that the bars in parliament are, are tax free.

>> that's true. which is just mps actually. that's. no, no sorry. no, no. how do you feel about that? yeah i think i mean there you go. right >> people get more upset from the staffers actually. >> yeah . yeah yeah. absolutely. >> yeah. yeah yeah. absolutely. >> yeah. yeah yeah. absolutely. >> absolutely. but i think, i think when it comes to, you know, if you're taking we just it's a, it's an unpopular point. but i think the way the world works is that if you're a business, you will, of course, be taking people who you want to build relationships with out for dinner and to the horse races and to the football and keir starmer going to see taylor swift, and it's a four grand ticket. i understand that someone sounding pro—business, it used to be absolutely, absolutely. i am pro—business, a pro—business government. >> but but but look, i mean, of course there's going to be a little bit of give and take when you're in politics. right? but but this is just a bad look when the public's confidence in parliament is so low . de—man parliament is so low. de—man what do you think? how how can we restore is getting rid of these freebies part of restoring faith in government? >> i think it's got to come from

the top. you know, it's a new government and what they do matters. and i think they've come to a bad start and they've got to start at the top and then it can filter down. >> i'm just sorry. i've just i've just had a recollection of a moment that keir starmer said before he became prime minister that he would ban second jobs unless it was for keeping qualifications he did that got watered down quite significantly now and it's to do with consulting now. it's it's it seems to me that keir starmer's idea of lifting up standards is just to do just enough, you know , just to do just enough, you know, i wish i just to do just enough, you know, iwish i did just to do just enough, you know, i wish i did about a second job. >> that would be easier now. >> that would be easier now. >> now i've lost. well, there you go. >> so andy obviously open to offers. >> yeah. we obviously had, i think it was lord alli who gave starmer £20,000 worth of clothing. >> he rebranded him. isn't that a bad look for the party of working class? >> yeah. >> yeah. >> look, i, i think that's really disappointing when i heard that, i thought that's such a shame because actually starmer has talked a really good talk on cleaning up politics and god, did we need it because we've had some awful, awful cronyism, particularly from the government before the government before last, or actually three

prime ministers go and some really dreadful cronyism. and it does need cleaning up and it undermines things like that undermines things like that undermine the message. >> i'm certainly going to talk more about cronyism later. but just quickly. >> i just feel so sorry for the voters. obviously, i was working on the general election campaign, knocking on doors and people that weren't supporting the conservative party, having faith in the labour party because they were making all of these virtuous promises. actually look at what they're doing now. the sleaze is so disappointing. i'm not a labour supporter at all, but i do feel very sorry for the people that put their faith in starmer and his government, and they've been totally let down. and pete, what do you think if you're a tory, would do you look back on the tory years and think, oh, we should have maybe handled things a little bit differently? >> boris obviously was a was obviously quite a controversial figure for some. >> oh for me, the way the tories handled most of the sleaze scandals, i thought was absolutely shocking. and it was amateur at best. i mean, let's look at the way the cchq deals with this stuff is just nonsense. but for me, i do think it is a collective effort of parliament as a whole to bring

back trust in themselves. i think that parliament and politicians that have to do the mea culpa and say, we got this wrong, you know, we can make this party political. all we like, but this stuff is really important. trust in institutions is what holds the country together. and these institutions have to be more honest and open and come with an open heart and say, sorry, interesting. >> we're going to talk more about cronyism coming up later. but next on the saturday five, should employees have the right to a four day workweek? well, they might under sir keir starmer's proposals, apprentice star ryan mark parsons will give us his thoughts on this. you're with the saturday five live on gb news. don't go

welcome back to the saturday five, the liveliest debate show on telly. as always , thank you on telly. as always, thank you so much for emails coming in. so i've got a lovely message here from cassie. cassie says to write the politicians have lost trust. they have wilfully been

allowing the denigration of the uk for too long. oh, what do you think about that dame andrea, >> i think it's politicians. it's also the way the media portray things. look how they really piled on boris, so i think really, if we're going to clean up things, the media has got to play the part as well. we need some positivity. >> absolutely. let's get some of that tonight . anyway, it's time that tonight. anyway, it's time for our next debate. who's going next? >> i think i'll go next. well, a lot of you will know me for being on the apprentice with lord sugar , and i'm all about lord sugar, and i'm all about supporting business and making sure that entrepreneurs are supported. but i'm very concerned about labour's new plans to reduce the working week to four days. i personally think it's an excuse for apathy, for laziness. i don't know what you think, but also i'm 24. as i've already said tonight i represent gen z. a lot of my friends are leaving university as postgraduates. they're going into the world of work for the

first time. i'm worried about the trajectory of proposals like this . where are we going to see this. where are we going to see working in the future? just behind the screens? i think it's detrimental to career progression. i think the only way that you can go forward and be successful in life and in a career is by by being in the office and i'm worried about is this a slippery slope to two dimensional working behind a zoom computer screen? i don't know what you think , andy, about know what you think, andy, about the proposals and whether you agree, but i am very vehemently against it. >> well, i think it's horses for courses, so for certain people they will be working in jobs in organisations where a four day week is not viable. and actually labouris week is not viable. and actually labour is not saying we want to wholesale move every organisation and every working person to a four day week. that wouldn't work. it wouldn't work for me, it wouldn't work for a lot of my colleagues. but i work for a firm where and by the way, we have slowly but surely over the last sort of 18 months, moved from one day in the office just after covid to two days to three days, and now to four

compulsory days in the office for people who work with clients, who have to have that face time. but we have other colleagues who work on the tech side of our business. they don't need to be in the office every day and actually, they arguably don't need to work a five day week. maybe they could work smarter by doing four days. and so i think it's i think it depends. i think it's about giving organisations the option. there is something about working smarter versus working harder. >> so andy, my problem with this is that we've got a crisis on our national health service. we need to get more people becoming doctors, nurses and other parts of our civil service as well. is this now not another incentive to not go and join those specific industries ? because specific industries? because surely if you're saying that businesses can all go and have a four day working week, why would i on earth want to work five days? >> that's not just that's just not how it's going to pan out. you know, for some people, they will have the option. they will have the they will have the right to ask their employer, and their employer will be obliged to at least consider that seriously. but you know, for teachers, for doctors, for nurses, for lots of other people that won't be viable.

>> so, you know, productivity is at an all time low. how is this going to contribute to making our economy stronger? >> well, to be honest, i've got to do something i didn't think i was going to do tonight. and i'm actually going to agree with andy. i think this is a horses for courses situation, and i do think this is depending on what you do. but i will say though that if you are starting off in certain industries, you should be in the office. you know, one, one of the issues that we've often found working with younger generations is nobody knows how to pick up the phone and talk to another human being. i think this is one of the major problems, and i think this has been exaggerated, exacerbated by covid, is nobody knows how to talk to another human being. everybody seems to be very closed off and very scared to talk to somebody. and i think thatis talk to somebody. and i think that is one of my main concerns about this policy. but the big i'm not overly keen on is the idea that an employee could ask for a four day week, and it has to be taken seriously. i think that's a little vague. i need to see some policy detail, and then i'll make my mind up on that. but i on a principle, i don't think that this is a terrible idea. now, to fix the

productivity argument, what i my main thing is what we actually needis main thing is what we actually need is some industrial strategy about what we want to do with the economy. the reason that it's stagnant is it's just it's kind of flailing in the wind. we have no direction, we have no focus. and we don't we don't have what used to be called joined up government, where different government departments all work together for a single aim. that doesn't seem to happen. it's too much competing between compartments for money. until you fix that, productivity will remain as abysmal as it is. >> well, de—man look, i suspect this is going to hit the civil service first, considering that's the part of the government can control. well, how are we going to get our civil service to actually do anything? >> look, when i was in government, the amount that was working from home and i was also the northern ireland whip, and i remember the secretary of state having an argument with the top civil servant to get people into the office because they had appalling levels of people who was not in the office. so i think it actually demonstrates that the unions are in charge of government. and i'd like to ask andy, they also said about stopping emails at five, are you going to put your out of office

on at five? the right to switch off? >> i mean, it wouldn't work. my organisation and it wouldn't it wouldn't work for me. it wouldn't work for me. it wouldn't work for my colleagues, certainly wouldn't work for my boss. >> if your boss himars and you have a fallout with your boss and then you say, well, actually he's just emailed me at 515, what's going to happen then? you take him to court. >> i just i think all of this is about just think it's about rethinking the way in the post—covid world there has there needs to be a rethink about the way the world works. and we don't just need to continue doing things as we've always done.i doing things as we've always done. i absolutely i'm glad to see more people back in the office. and actually, if you are spending time in central london, you can see it, you can feel it. it's getting a lot busier. it really is getting a lot busier. >> ryan marx, lord sugar never would have allowed this, surely, would have allowed this, surely, would he not? >> absolutely not. well, he has a lot of properties in london, so actually it is an interest to get people back into the office. and i just really think it's an excuse for apathy, i really do. i think this strengthening of workers rights, the right to switch off, and the fact that you can request to work at home

one day a week, i just think it's a step in the wrong direction, and you're already seeing a lot of my friends are work shy. i think, to be quite frank, a lot of young people just don't like to work. they want to find the easy way to make to money make money. they're switching to onlyfans to and instagram. >> but what's what's wrong? what's wrong with the most of us? surely? what's wrong with what's wrong with that? >> if that's if that's, you know. >> no, no, i think the one, the one thing i think the way this should be really kind of rolled out is that it is a privilege and not a right. so i think employers can say you can work from home, but there should be a there's going to be a competitive then, right? >> surely you're only going to attract people who say, i have four day working. >> i know lots of organisations that have incredibly high, kind of targets to hit. and if those targets aren't hit on on multiple occasions, then it should be taken away. i think again, this is about doing it in again, this is about doing it in a sensible way so that it actually works for both parties. because if, say, for example, if you have if you're a carer or you've got children, this is actually a godsend to many, many people. >> if this is labour's plan for growth for britain, i think we're in serious trouble. i

don't know if you saw a couple of days ago many millionaires are going to leave britain. we saw that with the doom mongers speech that starmer did that it's already hitting the housing market and investment into the housing market. i think we're in serious trouble. it's going to be a choppy five years under laboun >>i laboun >> i think you're right. and final words, final thoughts i guess on this. are you going to ever go back into back into the office? i absolutely agree with you.so office? i absolutely agree with you. so coming up on the saturday five are the labour party, the party of sleaze as watchdog reviews the civil service appointments, one of which is a labour donor. how is andy williams going to defend this one? i don't know, you're with the saturday five live on gb news

welcome back to the saturday five. as always. thank you so much for your emails about tonight's topics. i've got some good ones here for you . some good ones here for you. june and alan wright, nhs doctors and nurses and gps do not work a five day week as we

speak. i didn't know that. do you know that? that's bonkers. most are already at a four day week and my gp only works two days. south yorkshire police offer a 20 hour week. nobody wants to work. june and alan say anne marie says four day working week. let businesses decide. interesting stuff. okay, right now it's time for our final debate. who's up next? >> i think that's me. >> i think that's me. >> it is indeed over to you, pete. >> right. the clock has struck 13. the ministry of truth has been built and big brother is watching. welcome to keir starmer. britain, where the main rule is do as i say, not do as l, rule is do as i say, not do as i, as i do . this week by i, as i do. this week by baroness giselle stuart has the civil service commissioner has confirmed a review into a number of appointments into the civil service by the labour party, who just so happened to be their biggest donors. the week after week, zacchaeus stood there and lambasted boris johnson for being sleazy and dirty and rotten, and saint keir could do no wrong . well, isn't it funny? no wrong. well, isn't it funny? for 20 grand and a pair of glasses, you can get full access to him? this is the reality that with its two attack dogs of sue

gray and matthew doyle, sir keir has become the king of sleaze and the king of cronyism. the labour party has always been like this. they just hide it better. welcome to britain 2024. >> are you, are you? are you donning a new name for him ? donning a new name for him? sleazy starmer? is that what you're going for here? right? >> it is this. >> it is this. >> the main one here? is it waheed alli who was one of his biggest donors, who gave him hundreds of thousands and nearly thousands and thousands of pounds and got full vip access. and the conservatives asked one simple question who gave him the pass to get that level of access to the prime minister? it's a staggering level of security. okay i'm sorry for them not to just be open and say , well, he just be open and say, well, he did it. she did. it tells me that there is something going on here that is okay. >> so, so andy, look, there's a lot of this going on at the moment. keir starmer is being criticised of cronyism. obviously we had him in the rose garden just a couple of days ago. i believe it was saying he's cleaned up politics, he's going to be different. and of course we've obviously had his business adviser who was sacked in that same row, that famous

rose garden photo. what does this say to the public about what this government's going to be like? >> well, i think this is cock up rather than conspiracy. but i did say before the break that i think this is really disappointing as a labour member, as a labour supporter, it's very difficult to defend you know, it's a real shame because i do think we need in some ways to clean up politics. and i think a lot of the rhetoric that keir starmer came out with in the run up to the general election was right. i do think that boris johnson in particular, debased standards in pubuc particular, debased standards in public life to an outstanding degree, and i really, really think he will be remembered as somebody who caused great harm in that respect. i think liz truss, the less said about her, the better. but but i would say that you know, keir starmer and laboun that you know, keir starmer and labour, they have to practice what they preach and if they don't then they will be viewed in the same light. so i'm, i am concerned you've got some strong words. >> i can hear you there. de—man. go on, go for it. >> and starmer and all of them , >> and starmer and all of them, they're so sanctimonious. look, when he was in opposition and. but they seem to get away with

it. yeah look how look at beergate. i mean that was pretty disgusting. i mean , boris, he disgusting. i mean, boris, he had there was no case to answer. >> we know that there was no we know there was no case to answer on that we know they had all the take aways delivered. >> there was beer. it was a it was a daily mail. >> it was a daily mail hit job. >> it was a daily mail hit job. >> it was a daily mail hit job. >> i think most people in this room have been in, been in a room have been in, been in a room with angela rayner. i often remember that very specifically the fact that he suddenly, conveniently forgot she was there. i just don't understand how anybody can say that . how anybody can say that. there's no case to answer. and i think andrew is completely correct. the labour party have continually been. >> they always get away with it, but i don't think they will this time because why do they get away with it? >> so much? was it because they're not in government? >> is that because there's a lot of the media unfortunately tends to be left leaning. oh come on, i'm serious. also, look at how many of those in the media, their partners are in the civil service or a relative. and we've had so many leaks from the cabinet office, including people who works in the itv, passing stuff on to them. so i think that's a problem . but why?

that's a problem. but why? i don't think they'll get away with it this time. look at the approval ratings for starmer —16. i think people are waking up to the fact that labour are liars and, and also, sue gray is at the heart of this. yes. well, let's not forget sue gray was a propriety and ethics person . she propriety and ethics person. she should know better than anybody that what this looks like. and. but let's not forget , her son but let's not forget, her son got ten grand from this donor. so i think it stinks. it needs cleaning up. and i'd like to see every media outlet, including the bbc, calling starmer out. >> do you think there's a two tier media when it comes to labour? >> well, i think so, yes, and i definitely i think organisations like the bbc are definitely very lenient towards labour. but i really have to echo the same sentiments as andrea in terms of it really does stink. all of the sleaze is pure hypocrisy. like i said earlier in the show, keir starmer was saying that he's going to clean up politics. life in public office and as leader of the opposition, he was saying that the tory party were handing

outjobs that the tory party were handing out jobs to their mates. dodgy contracts, etc. but look at what we're seeing with lord alli. he donated £500,000 to the labour party. he gets a number 10 pass. he hosted a post—election reception in number 10. look at look at the sleeves okay, so andy, look . andy, look. >> so there's a lot of criticism of course, about the unions getting their pay deals as soon as labour walked through the doon as labour walked through the door. you've got lord alli, you've got all these other things. we also talk about two tier media. we've not seen keir starmer ask a single question to gb news. oh come on, is that is that a sign? is that a sign. >> this two this two tier media thing is i mean, the written press in britain is overwhelmingly centre right and right wing. i mean, that is just an i think our viewers disagree with you. >> you know, i'm sure that gb news is the independent. >> i said no, i said the written press is overwhelming. of course, i'd never pretend that the guardian is right wing. come on, let's be serious. >> but the guardian and the mirror is read by people within, in certain industries. >> the guardian is not read by many people at all. >> let's be completely honest about it. people who are in certain positions in society that influence huge amounts of pubuc that influence huge amounts of public policy. this was the point. there was a survey done at the bbc about what is the most popular, newspaper

subscription. it was the guardian by like 20, 30%. it's staggering to argue that the labour seats right wing majority, the labour party, is trust me, trust me. >> the labour party is not about . >> the labour party is not about. and we're going to be talking about the issue around margaret thatcher in a minute. and that was that was on the front page of the daily mail yesterday, on a day when there were all sorts of other really important things going on in the world. and that was the headline on i mean, the idea that the written press are somehow biased towards labour. >> well, no, but they did. they did pull boris for doing the decorations of downing street, though. that was a headline media. i'm sorry, but they well, i'd be a bit careful what i say about that. >> but i mean that was bonkers. i mean, really, come on. that was, that was that was not okay. >> final. final word. ryan. mark. >> come on. well, i just feel again like i said earlier, i feel so sorry for the voters. how much coverage was given to ian corfield as well, who donated exactly £20,000. >> well enough that he enough that he stepped down to rachel reeves and then he becomes a director of the treasury. >> how much coverage was given to that? okay. >> right. let's let's move on, shall we say. loads more to come

tonight on this brilliant show, including our big interview with conservative mp matt vickers. he's going to be telling us why he's backing robert jenrick to be the next tory party leader. plus, we'll be scrapping over the margaret thatcher portrait and asking whether oasis can save the world. well what do you think? do you think they can? i don't think they can. i don't think they can. but we're going to talk about it anyway. first, your weather with marco. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news >> hello. here's your latest weather update from the met office for gb news. over the next few days the weather will be turning increasingly unsettled. we'll start to see some outbreaks of rain developing, even some thunderstorms in places. that's because high pressure starting to pull away to the north—east of the uk, allowing our south easterly flow to develop, and this warm front starting to introduce some cloud from the

south. and that's certainly the case as we head through the evening into the overnight period, more in the way of cloud pushing northwards across england and wales, some showers starting to break out, some locally heavy , particularly locally heavy, particularly towards the far south and south—east. towards the end of the night where the odd thunderstorms possible. so the clear skies looking towards the northwest across parts of scotland and northern ireland, and here turning quite chilly in some rural spots into mid to upper single figures holding up though in the south quite a humid night across some southern areas with lows in the high teens celsius. as for sunday, well, we'll start the day across the north and northwest of the uk on a fine note. any early mist and low cloud lifting to give some sunshine at times, but the sunniest weather towards the far north—west of scotland, heading further south into england and wales more in the way of cloud around and at this stage in the morning we'll start to see a few showers breaking out, but particularly across the central and southern part of england. here again, 1 or 2 heavy, even thundery showers are possible as we head through the day, those showers start to become more extensive across some central and southern parts of england, eventually working their way north into parts of northern england into the

afternoon too. so it's a north—west of the uk and across some western spots, seeing the best of the lingering brightness with 1 or 2 lighter showers here. but those showers across england and wales, there eastern parts of wales there locally on the heavy side and could give some flooding in places as well. temperatures peaking in the southeast at a very warm and quite humid 27 celsius. as for monday, more low pressure will be in charge, so it stays very unsettled, but we could see some further thundery showers across the east and northeast of the uk, with rain also working its way in from the west, eventually turning fresher out across parts of northern ireland. temperatures here no better than 18 celsius in the afternoon. an unsettled start into the coming working week, but things perhaps turning a bit drier towards the middle part of the week, with temperatures returning to the seasonal average. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news.

>> it's saturday night and this is the saturday five. i'm alex armstrong along with dame andrea jenkins, ryan mark parsons, peter barnes and andy williams. we have so much more excitement to bring you in this hour. it's 7:00 pm and this to bring you in this hour. it's 7:00pm and this is the to bring you in this hour. it's 7:00 pm and this is the saturday five. and still to come tonight will be interviewing tory mp matt vickers on why he's backing robert jenrick to be the next leader and also this hour, dame andrea jenkyns and andy williams will face off in the saturday scrap. it's going to be a good one. i can feel it. they're going to be doing that over the prime minister's decision to remove margaret thatcher's portrait from number 10, and we'll be answering your questions in ask the five. please send them through to gbnews.com forward slash your say. but first it's your saturday night news with the brilliant sophia wenzler.

>> alex thank you. good evening from the gb newsroom. it's just gone 7:00 your top story this houn gone 7:00 your top story this hour. a 32 year old mother and a man who were attacked in separate incidents during the notting hill carnival weekend have now died . cher maximin was have now died. cher maximin was stabbed at the carnival while attending the event with her three year old child. the 32 year old was taken to hospital in a critical condition, but despite the best efforts of medical staff, she died from her injuries . meanwhile, museum injuries. meanwhile, museum nato, who worked as a top chef, was found unconscious on monday evening near notting hill carnival. and he was, and he also died from his injuries, metropolitan police said the deaths had been devastating for both families and they were both now being treated by the force as a murder investigation. a newly elected labour mp has issued a public apology over reports of serious faults in some of his london rental

properties. jace atwell, who represents ilford south, owns 15 flats where tenants have complained about black mould and ant infestations. he says he's shocked at the reports and vowed to take immediate to action address the issues. right leaning politicians are on the cusp of winning the most votes in german state elections for the first time since the second world war, the decade old afd is likely to win in former communist states of thuringia, whilst they are expected to tie in saxony, the anti—immigration party has seen surging support following a knife attack in western germany last week , when western germany last week, when three people were alleged to have been killed by a member of the islamic state. however, the anti—establishment party is unlikely to have the seats needed to form a local government . restrictions on the government. restrictions on the movement of sheep and cattle have been brought in in parts of england, after confirmed cases of the animal disease bluetongue, a restricted zone is

in place in norfolk and suffolk. to mitigate the risk of further cases. that's according to the department for environment , food department for environment, food and rural affairs. five premises are known to be infected with the disease . bluetongue causes the disease. bluetongue causes swelling and ulcers in infected animals, but it can't harm humans . now, animals, but it can't harm humans. now, the oasis comeback tour shows have started selling out for some fans after they were scrambling to secure tickets. error messages and glitches are hampering people's attempts to land a spot on the reunion tour. ticketmaster insists their site hasn't crashed, but fans are still reporting long queues and us rapper fatman scoop has died at the age of 53. that's according to his tour manager. bass drop. bass drop . the artist, whose bass drop. the artist, whose real name was isaac freeman, had been taken to hospital after collapsing on stage during a performance in connecticut in the us on friday. scoop had

success around the world and topped the uk singles chart in 2003 with be faithful . those are 2003 with be faithful. those are the latest gb news headlines. for now, i'm sophia wenzler more in an hour for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code, or go to gbnews.com. >> forward slash alerts . >> forward slash alerts. >> forward slash alerts. >> it's saturday night and you're with the saturday five. i'm alex armstrong and i can promise you that you're all in for a very lively hour. so let's crack on with tonight's big interview . one of reform's interview. one of reform's biggest donors, the former owner of newcastle united, has decided to switch his allegiance back to the conservatives after backing tory leadership hopeful robert jenrick. this week. the move comes as a critical conference

season begins, with other key figures like priti patel, tom tugendhat, mel stride kemi badenoch and james cleverly all vying for the leadership bid. joining us tonight is matt vickers, mp for stockton west , vickers, mp for stockton west, who will share his insights with us on this major shift in political support. matt, thank you so much forjoining us. you're supporting jenrick in the leadership contest. is he really going to be the one to crush farage's momentum? >> good evening alex. of course he is. of course he is. i think you know what sir john he is. of course he is. i think you know what sirjohn hall he is. of course he is. i think you know what sir john hall, incredibly bright, incredibly successful bloke , legend in the successful bloke, legend in the north—east of england, went reform this time and has now decided that robert jenrick is the to man win back his trust to get his faith back in the conservative party. and that's exactly the sort of thing that we want to see happen across the country between now and the election. and you know what? we've got to get on with that job because we've seen what labour are doing to the country already. yeah. >> so what happens if jenrick doesn't win? obviously this is a really big donor. he's like

quite spectacularly gone from reform back to the tories, back to reform again and back to the tories again. what happens to that money. what happens to that support. its this momentum only going to last a short period of time if jenrick doesn't win. >> we've got several fantastic candidates standing for the leadership of our party. i think robert jenrick is the standout favourite . well, he is for me. favourite. well, he is for me. he came up, we had hustings in our part of the world. our members got to meet them, got to grill them, got to give them all the tough questions and we got to see what they had to offer. and at the end of that, my thoughts were that jenrick was the standout candidate, that he's the right guy for me in my part of the world. but do you know what? there's lots of other things on offer. there's a long race ahead, but you know why? robertson man. robertson man. because he unifies. so this our party needs to learn lessons. it's been sent a very tough message by the electorate. we need to lick our wounds. listen to what they've said and go back with a sort of offering that they want. and robert jenrick is doing just that. he's the guy who understands what's gone wrong. he's the guy, a very principled guy who was brave, you know, he was the guy who was the immigration minister. he

gave it up when he didn't think that we were delivering what needed to be delivered. i think that that earns him some brownie points from me, a guy who's willing to, you know, put put the good of the country, put the good of these things before his own political career. and i think that's a really positive thing. but he's also a guy who's had a lot of a lot of positions in government. he was he was secretary of state at the mhclg. so the challenges that went on there, he knows that we need to build up instead of building out. we know that we need to provide homes for the next generation. he gets his head round all those arguments. he's out there listening. and most importantly, one of the things that we got wrong as a party was we spent too much time arguing with ourselves and not dealing with ourselves and not dealing with the issues facing the country. robert is a man who can unite this party. we've seen people coming out from left, right and centre to back him and that's what we're about. we've got to get our heads down, get a good offering for the british people and take it back to them at the next election, because we can't afford to leave labour in power a minute longer than need be. >> pete, what do you think? >> pete, what do you think? >> well, i like this argument, but there's also one of the biggest problems i think the conservatives have faced is actually an institutional one. and that was mainly cchq for as

long as i've been a member of the party. pretty much everybody has complained that cchq doesn't know what it's doing, and i think we saw that most accurately in the last general election with one of the worst campaigns i think i've ever seen. and it's looking like, you know, the next tip for the honours of the peerages and all the rest of it. my problem, my issue and question, robert, it's sorry. it's going to be well, no matter who becomes the next leader, what are they going to do to shape up the actual running of the party? the actual institution itself? it's not just about getting the right policies and the right kind of people. you've got to actually know what you're doing. and do you think robert's really going to be able to change that? >> i think he very much will. i think you need to get yourselves down to the hustings, give him a good grilling and tell him about that. but he actually gets it. he's out there talking to members. he's speaking to hundreds of members in my patch the other week. he's out there doing that today. i think he's touring the country left, right and centre. i think he's probably putting more miles in than many candidates to hear from members. he what they've got to say about that, hear from some of those candidates is a huge number of those candidates in the red wall in seats that we

lost, who were backing robert because they think he is the man who can go in there and fix that and get us on the road to winning again. and you know what? it's a huge challenge. we've got to get on with it. we've got to get on with it. we've got to deliver. >> andrea. >> andrea. >> hi, matt. matt and i go back a long way help campaign when i was standing against balls. didn't you, matt? what i'd like to know really is it's more of a party question. i got the email today. i assume you're still deputy chairman. are you ? deputy chairman. are you? >> i resigned as deputy chairman of the party. >> oh, so you might not be able to answer this then? >> nobody can keep up. nobody can keep up, can they? >> well, i, i got the email tonight saying that, we're going back to, as we were years ago at the party conference where members are going to be there speaking on debates and really challenging, you know, the top levels of the party, which i think is fantastic. so i'd like to know, can we expect any surprises at conference? and also, i mean, i'm only going because i got a free ticket ex—mps get free tickets , two ex—mps get free tickets, two tier tories, two tier tories. >> now it's a consolation prize,

>> now it's a consolation prize, >> are we expecting many members to actually come to it? because the members i speak to are really down, fed up, and they're not going to bother going. >> well, first of all, what a cracking campaign it was in 2015. if we'd done a bit more of that, it was called the get balls outcome ed balls, and we'd have done much better this time. and you also put on good grub down there. i remember that. that's probably a thing to learn, but actually, i think you're right. i think it's important that that those people in our party who have those frontbench positions are out there listening to the members getting around the country at the moment. they're everywhere. these nominees for this leadership campaign, i think that's something that has to carry on. you have to engage members. people have to be able to speak to people. the problem with that is always that actually the broadcast media will find the one person who's got a very , very strong opinion got a very, very strong opinion on something, and the entire discussion in the broadcast media will all be about the one person at the back who had an opinion that's a little bit controversial. it will overshadow all coverage ever. not on a good channel like gb news, but many of those other, quite right. matt reputable

channels, you know, so, so i think there's a balance, but i think there's a balance, but i think our members, our members of parliament are leading politicians have to make themselves available to the members and let members be heard. andy >> matt, i know that one of robert's flagship policies is leaving the echr. now. i think that's completely the wrong thing to do at exactly the time that we're starting to rebuild relationships with our european allies and more widely. but why does robert jenrick think this is in line with british people's priorities? when what they're really worried about is the cost of living and is getting the economy going again for the benefit of their families, think. >> do you know what? good relationships never, never confine people as to what they're doing or what they're not doing. and our relationship with our eu partners is one thing, and we've got to get on with that. but actually, the choice about the echr robert was in there. he was the immigration minister. he's seen the things that prevent us having a real function, an immigration system that allows us to pick the people who should and shouldn't come here, allows us to have secure borders. that means we know who comes across that

border and walks down the street tomorrow. he's seen the innards of it. he knows what needs doing to get on with the job. and that's exactly why i think he's probably the right man to get on with the job and deliver it. remark. >> hi matt, i've been a member of the tory party since the age of the tory party since the age of 16. i'm 24 now and a lot of my friends are the fellow members were they've actually resigned their memberships because they feel disenfranchised by the party. how do you think robert jenrick is actually going to bring young people back and restore their faith in the conservative party? do you think he's the for man that? >> so i think actually one of. well, two factors probably, i think one of the biggest things affecting young people in this country are one of the, one of the largest things is actually around housing. it's around the struggle that people have to get on the housing ladder, probably more so down here than in my part of the world. but it's still a huge challenge for people in my part of the world. and i think, robert, having been in mhc, if you look back, he's the guy who looked at housing, looked at the fact actually, when you're building this stuff, it's not about building the cheapest, crappiest house. it was about building things that were beautiful, that added value to their surroundings. it was also about creating more dense ,

also about creating more dense, dense housing in urban areas rather than just sprawling into greenfield. people keep oversimplifying the arguments around housing. you either churn up all the greenfield to build houses, or you just stop building houses. that's not the choice. that's just not the way it is. it's about actually making something that works for communities, but also creates the new housing that the next generation needs. he knows that more than anybody, and he was a guy who got stuck in and delivered more housing during his time in the mhclg than anybody else. so i think he gets that argument. but i also think it's about people who are switched on. if you look at the campaigns of our leaders at the moment and you look at the people who are putting themselves out there on social media, who are engaging with that new social media front, roberts right there at the front of it, and i'm sure he would be as leader of the party. and i'm excited to see what he has to offer next. >> okay. well, look, but let's get real right? farage has got massive momentum with reform. he's seeing his numbers explode. he's seeing his numbers explode. he's saying he might even be overtaking the liberal democrats soon. is robert jenrick has has he even got half the charisma that farage has or the notoriety, let's say, how is he

really going to compete with nigel for the same voters? let's face it, the tories do need to bnng face it, the tories do need to bring back those reform voters to win. but is he really the guy that's going to do it? matt. >> come on, i don't think we should ever underestimate what what reform have to offer. and what reform have to offer. and what they're on with and their campaign. but actually, do you know what people wanted at this election? when i knocked on those doors, huge numbers of people who didn't bother to vote, huge numbers of people like sir john vote, huge numbers of people like sirjohn hall vote, huge numbers of people like sir john hall actually, who went reform this time they wanted a conservative party that knew what it was all about, that was talking to the country, taking on the challenges that the country is facing rather than arguing with itself and creating, you know, put those energies, give people that offer, and they will come back to this conservative party. it's got a lot to offer. we're going to be the people who are going to be the people who are going to stop the boats, the people who voted reform this time to stop the boats and solve the immigration problems faced in this country. actually, that's why we've got that huge labor party, labour majority in parliament. that's why we're seeing what's going to happen in the next couple of years to immigration in this country. that's why we're seeing the rot that's set in in number 10 with all these dodgy appointments,

all these dodgy appointments, all that has happened because we didn't give people an offering . didn't give people an offering. it's on us to get ourselves out there, give people something they can vote for. and that's exactly what robert jenrick is going to do. >> matt. that's an extremely compelling statement there. i'm sure our viewers will be listening to your words intently. thank you so much for coming on tonight. really appreciate your time. well, let's have to digest that a little bit further between the panel here. has anyone got any thoughts on jenrick's campaign? and more importantly, how does he win as, as this big leadership contest ? there's lots leadership contest? there's lots of lots of tories going for it, right? how does he break through the middle? because there's quite a lot of left wing tories now, aren't there? >> absolutely. i mean, i'm backing pretty, pretty is a long time friend because if you look at her voting record, she's a true thatcherite conservative. she was one of the spartans. she's voted , more to the right she's voted, more to the right of the party. now i was also robert's pps, during covid, and i know robert very well, is a very bright guy. i know robert very well, is a very bright guy . and if it's very bright guy. and if it's pretty and robert in the final two, then we're in a better place. i certainly don't want to

see kemi because she's if you look at her voting record, it's nothing like i agree. >> i do agree with you that the rhetoric demonstrates and i don't want to see the other two i'm afraid. >> see this? this is always been my problem is but pretty. yeah. this is this is my problem. i always i call myself one of those kind of. i just hate everything and everyone kind of tories because i'm sick to death of saying like, oh, these are left wing socialist. he's a left wing tory, he's a left wing tory, and she's a right wing thatcherite and all the rest of it. the greatest strength of the conservative party. the thing that makes it the most successful political party is the is the broad church. >> well, let's face it, up until the last election, no, i agree with you. it's destroyed the party. that's broad term. okay, but look at brexit. look at the liberal democrats. no, it's not because it wasn't the broad church. >> one faction took over and then you all start playing political nation. the one nation i think. but then you also you had the dominance of the erg and you couldn't even get rid of theresa may correctly. and that was the last tory party in absolute electoral gift for keir starmer. >> yes. and how does he beat someone like robert jenrick who

is tough on immigration? if he is, let's say the tory party candidate for the next election? >> well, i think all this talk of factional, i mean, i'm smiling because i think all of this is great news for labour. you know, the more that the tories fight like rats in a sack and they will do over the next couple of months during the remainder of the leadership contest, you know, that is that's good for labour and actually, if you look where labour went wrong for a while was because they went down a hard left wing rabbit hole and there was factionalism and actually when they got the party back together and moved to the centre ground, they were electorally successful. but what i would say is on robert jenrick, i actually think i think he's the candidate that starmer would fear the most . i starmer would fear the most. i think he's i think as a as someone who wouldn't vote for him, i think he's probably the best candidate. >> do you feel that farage is the person that keir starmer fears the most, considering that he got, what is it, 98 second places in labour seats? that's pretty impressive. >> well, i think like you were saying to matt farage has that charisma. he exudes that personality . i think a lot of personality. i think a lot of young people resonate with, and that's why you're seeing a huge, a vast number of young people

supporting reform, whether jenrick or any other leadership candidate can actually replicate that same charisma. i don't know, but i'm also with pretty. i think she's got what she's had experience in opposition, she's had experience in government. i think she's the person that actually young people are supporting. a lot of my friends, fellow tory young tory members are looking at the likes of priti patel and they're seeing strength and the same kind of strength and the same kind of strength and the same kind of strength and power that you can see in the likes of nigel farage. >> people like priti patel oversaw mass amounts of immigration into this country. a lot of viewers will be writing in saying, right, well, is she actually the person that's going to stop the boats? >> well, this is the thing she she was given the opportunity and she failed to do it. i mean, i'm not really against pretty. i actually do quite like her, but i mean, she she does have to answer that question a lot better than she has in the past. >> who would you choose? >> who would you choose? >> i'm not saying i have my favourite, but i'm not saying what a cop out on a cop out. >> i'm waiting for the arguments eveni >> i'm waiting for the arguments even i said, and i'm not. i don't even have a vote. >> but i will say is i've been a member for a long time and i haven't voted in any of the

leadership elections because i think the conservative mps do not take the contest seriously enough. too many people wander around westminster thinking they're, you know, from the in they're, you know, from the in the thick of it. so i think they should go straight to the thick of it. personally, i actually i, i won't go that far, but i think one thing that i would say is that if the conservative party spends so much time fussing over reform and nigel farage, they will get nothing done. they have to fix this internally and leave farage and his nice, nice little bandwagon of lunatics. >> and by the way , you want you >> and by the way, you want you want the candidates to scrap a little bit more, have a little bit of a tougher stance with each other. >> i don't, i don't think they need to scrap, but i don't think they need to really descend into blue on blue action as it's always called. but what they do need to do is actually have these real debates, but have them honestly and have them competently. >> okay. great stuff. well, talking of scrapping, coming up next on the saturday five, it's the saturday scrap. dame andrea jenkyns and andy williams are going to face off each other as the. sorry, i'm almost screwed that one up there. we'll face off over whether keir starmer should have removed the portrait of margaret thatcher from

number 10. you're the saturday five. i told you it's going to be a bea

welcome back to the saturday five. as always. thank you so much for your emails coming in tonight. topics on tonight's topics i've got adrian here. who said i have voted for the tory party for 39 years. not again. reform uk for me. interesting. i think there's a lot of gb news viewers who feel that way. but anyway, let's get on to the next part of the show. so now it's time for this. part of the show. so now it's time for this . now it's time for time for this. now it's time for tonight's main event. time for this. now it's time for tonight's main event . a portrait tonight's main event. a portrait of margaret thatcher has been moved from her former study in downing street by sir keir starmer. was he right to do this, or was this a huge sign of disrespect towards britain's first female prime minister and a very popular working class? one might add? i bring you the

saturday scrap with dame andrea jenkyns and andy williams second out. it's round one over to me. go ahead . go ahead. >> well, i think that margaret thatcher was i mean, there's no doubt she was a highly consequential prime minister. and many people would say she was a great prime minister. i would say that depends on your point of view. and i think if you're a labour prime minister who's just come into number 10, why wouldn't you consider moving that portrait that's bearing down on you every day? i don't have a strong view about him taking it down, but i certainly don't think that he's done something dreadful here. i think it's entirely up to him. it's his office. it's actually where he lives. and i don't understand the huge outcry that there's been that suggests he's done something really terribly wrong here. >> well, i think it's a barefaced liar. starmer actually , barefaced liar. starmer actually, let's not forget that during the election he wrote an op ed for the for the telegraph, praising margaret thatcher, his con, the voters. he used her to get the voters. he used her to get the vote and now he's actually

removing her her, her picture. so one thing i cannot stand is barefaced liars. and also it's so disingenuous. i mean he's he's pro eu is not patriotic britain. but he ensured that every every candidate had the british flag on their the union jack. he doesn't care about stuff like that. he's globalist. >> well i think he's very much a patriot and i think he's very much in favour of britain . and i much in favour of britain. and i mean, i just i don't agree with that. but on the on the point about margaret thatcher, you know, it's one thing writing an 0p know, it's one thing writing an op ed in the telegraph or whichever newspaper that praises some of the things she did, nobody in their right mind could claim that margaret thatcher had no positive impact on britain. but you don't have to have a shnne but you don't have to have a shrine to margaret thatcher. in number 10, there is a statue of her in parliament, as you well know. there is a photo of her on the staircase in number 10. it's not exactly as though she's been erased from history. all that's happenedis erased from history. all that's happened is that one portrait has been moved because maybe that's just not to keir starmer's taste, because he's not a thatcherite and why should

he be? >> well he shouldn't. >> well he shouldn't. >> he used her name, joe, in the election. and it's also just like the democrats did. and biden did when he removed the churchill bust. do you remember in the oval office? i just think it completely stinks. it's actually conning the public because of what he did during the election. i just think it's disgusting. >> why do we think this is such an important why do we think this is an important part of history? >> she's one of the best prime ministers we've ever had. >> well, i mean, again, it depends on your opinion. as i said, she's definitely one of the most consequential, there's no doubt about that. but she is recognised elsewhere in number 10. she's recognised in parliament. her name is never going to be erased from history. and just it's one portrait. and for me this is a really good example of, of conservative mps and people on the right getting worked up about symbolism because the because we would not remove blair's painting or anything like that. >> it's completely churlish and it's getting demonstrates actually what a small man he is. >> i think it's getting worked up about symbolism because when it comes to the substance of the arguments at the moment, the conservative party and the right

in general are all over the place. and one more thing on reform, they have nothing whatsoever to say about any of this. they've been carping and farage has been this, this, this. i've not seen a single solution from reform on anything whatsoever . whatsoever. >> right. okay, ryan. mark, you look like the kind of guy who might have a portrait of margaret thatcher at home. >> would you have taken. absolutely. he's got his eye on going in number 10. you can see it there. you can take it home with you. i don't know , i'd love with you. i don't know, i'd love to have it, actually, but. >> yes, i agree with andrea. the fact he spoke about margaret thatcher during the election, pure hypocrisy. and also, i think the greatest irony is probably britain's worst prime minister's move removing a portrait of britain's best prime minister. how can you say such a shame? it's sacrilegious. and i think starmer is an idiot and a sad little man. he lie—in. >> sorry. go on andy. >> sorry. go on andy. >> sorry, sorry, sorry. i just have to. i just have to very briefly say the fact. the fact, the fact you used the word sacrilegious. i think that that actually speaks to a really significant problem with the conservative party. the tory party has been obsessed with margaret thatcher for too long.

she might have had the solutions at the time. again, that comes down to your point of view. but she left office in 1990. it's 34 years ago. get a grip . tories years ago. get a grip. tories move on. >> go on pete, go for it. >>— >> go on pete, go for it. >> okay, on that i actually do agree with you. however, what i will say on on this issue of the painting, i actually think everyone's missed the point. this was a dead cat. the real arguments that we should be having is about the money that's being spent on net zero, about the whopping pay deals to the trade unions. this was to get everybody. this was jangling the keys to the right to say talk about that. but we haven't been speaking about that. >> i've been on the media all week speaking about this. >> oh, look, this was matthew doyle, who's the director of comms attempt to shift the narrative away from a very negative week for keir starmer. and unfortunately , too many and unfortunately, too many people have fallen into the trap. but what i would say . trap. but what i would say. sorry, i keep calling you up just one second. what i will say is that i do think that if the if this painting happened to be of a black woman, the same people saying, oh, it doesn't matter about symbolism, we'll be

singing a very different song. i do think that there is a big problem here of consistency on the left when it comes to removing things . you know, the removing things. you know, the next time they want to tear down a photo of a donor to a university, i would remind people of this very argument. he says, oh, well, it's just a picture. what does it mean? well, de—man look, for me, margaret thatcher encompasses what it means to become a working class conservative. >> absolutely. and i feel like this maybe it's just because keir starmer can't bear looking at someone more working class and more successful than him. >> what do you think? >> what do you think? >> like i said, it's small man syndrome actually. >> quite quite quite quite. >> quite quite quite quite. >> okey dokey. any more thoughts, andy? from you. what would you say? who would he put up instead of? maybe blair. blair >> if it was my downing street study, you can be sure that there'd be a, there'd be a portrait of blair. >> you can have a picture of keir, keir hardie's hat or something like that. you know, it's rather ridiculous. >> but i would say i don't i don't think i'm sorry, i don't agree. i don't think this is anything to do with diversity. it's nothing to do with the fact that she's a woman. it's nothing to do with that. this is just about somebody saying, i'm putting my stamp on a building,

which is actually my office. and keir starmer is not a thatcherite, and he's never said it's to do with how thatcher, the left hate thatcher. >> indeed, we'll have to leave it there. but coming up next on the saturday five, we've got the bunch of five. we'll be debating five topics, including whether oasis should do a peace tour to stop the wars in ukraine and gaza. you're with the saturday five live on gb news go

welcome back to the saturday five. as always, thank you for your lovely emails coming in tonight about our topics. i've got beth here who said it was gordon brown who commissioned that picture of margaret thatcher. i never knew that. interesting. we've also got some people saying , don't badmouth people saying, don't badmouth nigel farage. interesting. lots of people getting touchy about that. but no matter what you think maggie says, no matter what you think of thatcher, she never would have put up with the illegal boats coming in. wow. interesting time. anyway, now

it's interesting time. anyway, now wsfime interesting time. anyway, now it's time for this. >> this week, as starmer made his doom laden speech forecasting difficulties for the british people, number 10 released a statement on how they are preparing for the funeral of downing street cat larry and he isn't even dead yet. now read starmer grim keir, who i'd like to call him the prophet of doom , to call him the prophet of doom, already started the planning. the media campaign and the strategy of when he , when the strategy of when he, when the cat eventually dies. now i actually think it's happening. larry has lived through many prime ministers premiership, and starmer is frightened that larry's going to let the cat out of the bag. >> oh, anyone here a cat owner? no, no, not a chance. couldn't pay no, no, not a chance. couldn't pay me dog. >> so i remember when i, when i went to downing street and larry the cat was there. i'm actually quite allergic to cats. so like again he came he came over and said hello and i sneezed and he

ran away. so yeah, me and larry don't get on. >> oh, no. >>- >> oh, no. >> no, i'm more of a dog person myself, but i think it's the cat. actually, larry the cat was brought in to get rid of the rats. >> it was completely chief mouser. >> chief mouser. so i'm assuming we'll get a new cat at some point. >> anyway, this keir starmer have a dog. i'm pretty sure. boris. >> i think they brought one with them. i'm pretty sure they did. or they were going to buy one to bnng or they were going to buy one to bring in. when they moved into downing street. so they're definitely dog people. yeah. >> interesting stuff. all right. ryan, mark, you're up next. >> well, angela rayner has been caught behind a dj raving in ibiza. and i guess the question is, is it okay for mps to de—stress? it's recess right now and to go abroad and have a bit of fun. i think that's the question, really. i think it's okay. i think it's fine for mps to take a breather, see their family can we? badenoch went away, took a step back from the leadership campaign. i think it's for okay politicians to go abroad. >> you know, i have to disagree. i think when you've got keir starmer in the rose garden just a couple of days ago going, you're going to have the most painful budget. it's going to be

a disastrous few months. it looks absolutely horrendous that angela rayner is partying in the most, come on, the most expensive clubs in ibiza with her famous friends denise van outen. i think the optics are absolutely horrendous for her, i do. >> i agree that the optics are terrible. i mean as they're taking away the pensioners winter fuel allowance , it looks winter fuel allowance, it looks like she's dancing on the potential graves of those people and i do think it looks bad, but i will happen to agree that i do think mps should be allowed to take time off. they should be allowed to take time with their family. there are people at the end of the day, but angela rayner has to remember that she's not just an mp, she's a deputy, she's deputy prime minister. she has a huge responsibility and what she does and how she's viewed by people actually matters. and i think this was her kind of showing her lack of experience about being in power. and as you see this right across the labour government with jess phillips as well, with making a few missteps, i think it's i think it's i think we'll see actually, that that this was a freebie. >> so you'll see it on the parliamentary interest. but also as you said, it's what does this look like to the public? and one thing i cannot stand is the

hypocrisy of the left. look, when michael gove was dancing in a nightclub in britain, how the left had such a go at him, but now they don't like us pointing out andy in the most expensive. >> i'm going to be hypocrites. >> i'm going to be hypocrites. >> i'm going to be hypocrites. >> i'm going. no. absolutely not. i'm very consistent. i thought that was fine. i think this is fine. i think mps should be allowed to have a private life. i think if they want to go and have fun in ibiza, that's absolutely fine. i don't think it's remotely at odds with the role of deputy prime minister in any way, shape or form. and it's funny, we have this thing in britain with politicians that if you go to cornwall, even if you stay in a five star hotel that costs £700 a night, that's fine. but if you go to ibiza, all know. >> but we just saw on the screen there an image of the headlines of michael gove going nuts in ibiza. i think it was, i think it was in aberdeen, wasn't it? >> i think it was in scotland. >> i think it was in scotland. >> apologies completely apologies sir. right by the, by the mirror. >> well look, i have no problem with, with mps going on. >> but she looks arrogant, doesn't she. she looks so full of herself. that's what i don't like. >> she's just having a nice time. >> i just have an issue with. she's behind the dj. it's a bit

elitist. i mean, being part of the crowd. >> oh, come on, i do just think that while britain is about to. >> well, keir starmer gives these speeches about how everything is going to get terrible, terrible, if not even worse, and he's doing this. i just think the optics stink and i don't i don't think badly. i don't think it's badly timed. and i think it shows, again, the amateur level that that video shouldn't exist. i mean, that's the thing. if the video didn't exist, we wouldn't be talking about one five seconds. >> i think when we're constantly asking for our politicians to be more human, more real, and then we're saying this, we can't have it both ways. >> is that more human? >> is that more human? >> yeah, i think it is actually having a good time, i think i just think it's a super bad look for the deputy prime minister of the united kingdom, who is, you know, i would assume is second in line to be prime minister of our country. >> if i think you should try and oust oust keir. >> oh, i think in the next five years and try and get to the top. >> do you think that's going to happen anyway, moving on. >> something a little bit more light—hearted. so the daily star put out a very bizarre story yesterday or today. i can't which day it was. they said

oasis would save the world and apparently this is if they were to tour on the borders of ukraine and russia. and in gaza. well, we do have some updated news for you that tickets have now sold out for oasis reunion. do you guys think that oasis could save the world? this is like a live aid sort of style event. do you think they could bnng event. do you think they could bring the world together? >> no. i think it took un peacekeepers to get you and oasis back together, let alone. i mean, i don't i don't think they'll stay together until they even make it to the first gig. at this point. so whether they can fix the world peace. i'm not quite sure about that one. this is just another way to actually keep the story going, isn't it? >> yeah. this is this is a pr thing. and are they really going to actually get putin there and you know. exactly. and get both sides talking. of course not. it's a pr exercise. >> is their music that great anyway. yes yes yes it is. oh come on. no no no. were you even born then. no no 2000, 2000. there you go . there you go. >> wouldn't it remember one of the singles coming out? >> no , not taylor swift though >> no, not taylor swift though i did go to taylor swift concert.

>> i think she could save the world. i'm not sure about oasis, not with keir starmer there. >> i didn't see keir starmer there. no, no. >> well, taylor swift certainly wouldn't be saving the world with their greenhouse emissions. yeah. >> i wonder if starmer will get free tickets to oasis like he did taylor. >> oh i'm sure he will. >> oh i'm sure he will. >> wouldn't it be interesting anyway? right peter i believe you are. up next. yes >> so after a five year old boy smashed a 3500 year old vase at a museum visit , is it not time a museum visit, is it not time that we start seeing less children everywhere? what? i don't understand what it is about this country that everything has to be child friendly. maybe, just maybe , friendly. maybe, just maybe, adults can do something and the kids stay at for home once. >> well, andrea, come on over to you all for this one. >> i'm a mum to a seven year old. bah humbug. you must have some wonderful christmases. >> but for god sake, for god's sake, we've all been a child at some point. >> and, you know, taking children to museums. that's how they learn about history. >> yeah , yeah, but you've >> yeah, yeah, but you've actually got to blame the parents for not controlling them. yeah. >> again, i don't necessarily blame the kid . i do blame the

blame the kid. i do blame the parents because i was always taught you look with your eyes, not your hands. but i mean, it's probably excitement. >> the child ran off. i mean, i've got a child with adhd, i've got adhd that explains probably why i'm so outspoken. but i've got a child with adhd and he runs all over and it is exhausting . but i don't think we exhausting. but i don't think we should ban children. >> i think it's cruel. ryan michael crick i can see you wanting to agree, don't you? >> no, no, i think there are some places where children shouldn't be. i actually came on the breakfast show yesterday to talk about banning children from pub gardens, and the same with planes. it's like when i go on a six hour flight to new york or wherever, and there's a child screaming next to me, a rambunctious, noisy, so you're banning him from holidays by doing that? i just can't stand it . and after work, i want to it. and after work, i want to put a headphones on. i want to relax. you have a screaming child. just stay away. >> a&e is this not the same puritan approach that they're blaming keir starmer for locking up the greens now they want to shut children up. >> it's got nothing to do with keir starmer or labour. >> and i agree with andrea. i actually think my local pub has actually think my local pub has a really good approach, which is

that they say that it's incredibly family friendly area actually, but this pub specifically, they, they really welcome families . they roll the welcome families. they roll the red carpet out for families until 7 pm. and then at 7 pm, which is kind of when most kids are going home anyway and off to bed.then are going home anyway and off to bed. then they say, actually, if you could now leave this to adults, and i think it works really well, you know, so for me, it's, it's i think we need more children in this country. >> we've got to make it better for parents. we've got to make it easier, not worse. anyway right. >> moving on. >> moving on. >> more places. dog friendly as well. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> i'd rather have no dogs in places. >> right, andy, over to you. >> right, andy, over to you. >> so, as we know, labour is looking at changing the rules on smoking. they've brought back rishi sunak's legislation on clamping down on smoking and banning it for people from a certain age. but jeremy clarkson has decided that he's not having it . and his new pub in the it. and his new pub in the cotswolds, he is saying please do actually smoke in my pub garden. or specifically he's saying if you smoke, that's up to you , please be considerate. to you, please be considerate. and i have to say , i'm very much and i have to say, i'm very much in favour of clamping down on people smoking to some degree.

but when it comes to pub gardens and, you know, and nightclub smoking areas, i actually am not in favour of banning smoking in those places. i really am not, i just don't i think there's something kind of almost romantic about being able to do that in those places . and i'm a that in those places. and i'm a non—smoker, isn't it? >> it's all nanny state. like let the businesses decide. >> i agree with andy that actually. i mean, i'm a non—smoker. i've never tried it. and but to go in a beer garden and smoke, that's up to them. you know, they enjoy it. i mean my mum smoked my late mum smoked for all her life since she was 13 until her 80, nearly 80. and she said that was her way to relax and also go out and bond with people. >> absolutely. well that's it. >> absolutely. well that's it. >> i think you're at risk of eradicating a culture. i really enjoy the idea of going to a nightclub. i'm a frequent goer to infernos in south—west london, among others. >> i'm sure what an establishment sharing a cigarette socially. >> i think it's great that you just spark a conversation. i think removing that really just takes away so much. >> pete, look, pubs are the backbone of so many towns and

cities in this country. it's a cultural tradition in the summer for people to go out and have a beer and a smoke. what's the big deal? >> i completely agree with everybody on the panel, but this is the real issue, is the impact it's going to have on hospitality. i know pubs and clubs at the minute are literally dying. well, i think it's seven a week close now and i think this is only going to add fuel to that. i think what annoyed me actually was the way that they said, oh, well, this is about saving money for the nhs. well, i can think of a few other ways we could save money for the nhs rather than drinking problem. >> yeah, i mean that's a major thing they should be tackling. >> yeah, but i do, i do feel that this is again it's nanny state. it's big state. it's care knows best. and i'm doing this for your good whether you like it or not. you don't have free will anymore under keir starmer. >> very quickly. final word andy. is there not a good argument to be made for saving lives on the nhs by cutting back smoking in those areas? >> absolutely. well, i'm i'm in. what i am in favour of is actually broadly rishi's proposals, which is that at a certain level we should just kind of phase it out. i think that's good. but for the time

being, i'm not in favour of saying if you're in a pub garden, you can't smoke. i said you as a closet conservative, well, it's all happening here tonight on the saturday five, right? >> anyway moving on. still ahead. we'll answer all of your crazy questions and ask the five. no topics are off limits, and i wonder what you have in store us. us. this week. you're

gb news. welcome back to the saturday five. thank you for your emails coming in thick and fast. we've got babs here. who says don't ban outside smoking but keep the areas separate. i think i agree with you there. bruce says if someone owns a pub and a pub garden, who does starmer think he is to tell people what to do with their pub gardens ? i also with their pub gardens? i also agree, let people decide. i think let businesses decide. don't you anyway? right. so talking of tonight's topics, it's now time for this . right. it's now time for this. right. this is the part of the show we

have no idea what you're going to ask us, but let's see what you've got for us. this week, right? it seems a lot of young people have less places to go that, sorry, less places they can go for free. do you think they should increase funding to libraries and after school clubs in underfunded areas to reduce them, to reduce the rates of drug and gang activities? that's from greg. oh, that's a big one. >> i mean, i think, you know, as a parent, i think times have changed, actually. i mean, i used to work in schools as well . used to work in schools as well. iused used to work in schools as well. i used to teach in schools, and i used to teach in schools, and i don't think children want these, these clubs to go to now, if anything. i mean, i think if they did did stuff where like coding clubs and learn how to do coding clubs and learn how to do coding and, and or sports stuff or music actually get the creative juices flowing . yeah, i creative juices flowing. yeah, i think that's far more important than just somewhere where they're going to congregate. and let's face it, people have always been children, have always been children, have always been children, have always been there on street corners , congregating together. corners, congregating together. but but i think it's been

decades since children have actually gone. >> i have to admit, i agree with you on that. i think this idea that these are kind of after school clubs or leisure clubs or whatever are the solution to things like knife crime and all that. it's a little overblown. i think there might be an argument to it, but i do think it is an overblown argument. but i do think that, like i said, times have changed. people want different things. but i think how you fix most of how young people are, you know, getting involved in gangs and things. i just think that comes down to parental involvement. i think a lot of parents have to step up their game. this is a different time. they're a different challenges, and you have to get more involved about what the kids are so much out there. >> look at the cubs, the brownies. my little one does stagecoach singing, dancing. oh, amazing . amazing. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> spicing up the offering, incorporating technology make it more interesting for young people, not just a library. okay let's move on to the next question, shall we? >> so sylvie asks. new year's eve fireworks is now a ticketed event with limited people. why can't carnival be the same ? i can't carnival be the same? i totally agree with you, sylvie. i mean, look, i think the most important thing we can do is save lives and reduce crime on the streets of london, which are

already at their peak. that event seems to attract the worst criminals in london. it's not a good look for the carnival. i would just move it somewhere more appropriate, like hyde park. what do you guys think? >> no, carnival is not just any other event. we were talking about this earlier. it can't just be moved. it's not just an identikit event that can just be dropped into any old park. this is a nearly 60 year old annual event that is completely about celebrating a culture. and you can't just move it like you can just ticket it. >> surely we can ticket it so we know who's going. how many people are attending? >> no, you're completely missing. >> you're misunderstanding. >> you're misunderstanding. >> i'm sorry, i'm sorry , but >> i'm sorry, i'm sorry, but this argument, it doesn't make sense. >> because, yes, it's a 60 year old thing, but it's not 60 years ago. we have to grow up and actually live in the real world. there are people walking around with knives at these things, machetes and, you know, just to say, oh, it's six years old. it means so much. but do you know what? if it's about celebrating culture, then they should be the ones to start saying, maybe we should clean this thing up and moving it off the streets and into a confined area that could

be better policed, better patrol and better control would be a better representation of this culture. taking responsibility for their own and actually saying, no, we don't agree with this and we're going to do something to fix it. ryan. >> mark, last word from you on this. >> well, i think if we enhance security, i mean, i saw metal detectors when i went there, if they get more metal detection, that's a way of preventing knife crime. and i think moving it isn't the solution. it's been there for nearly six decades, six decades. keep it there, but find better ways to improve security. >> okay, well, moving on to our next question then. john has asked. starmer hit the milestone of 6000 boats crossing since august 27th, the 54th day of his premiership. liz truss reached it just after 29 days. rishi after 38. so is starmer going to stop the boats now ? dame andrea stop the boats now? dame andrea what do you think? >> look it's a major problem and i think that we've got to come out of the echr echr. i mean i had a petition going and got over 50,000 signatures. so i think we've got to be quite radical like this. and this is why, i mean, i voted for brexit

to control our borders, but unfortunately we're still in it . unfortunately we're still in it. no, but when we're still in the echr that's another element of it that we need to ensure we come out of. >> andy, what do you think? >> andy, what do you think? >> i just it's always it always seems to be the solution for people on the right seems to be if we just leave this one thing, if we just leave this one thing, if we just blow this up. no, it's more complicated than that. it's a really, really difficult problem. it's a combination of building relationships with our european allies, which we're rebuilding. it's a conversation of dealing with it at source. i don't think it's going to be as straightforward as keir starmer. britain i don't think it's. >> well, it's creating a pull i mean, for whatever reason. >> 14 years of conservative government seems to have made it that way. >> and it's always been that way, unfortunately. >> well, okay. >> well, okay. >> look guys, well , look, i want >> look guys, well, look, i want to thank you so much for coming on our show tonight. we've had a brilliant time. i hope you've all had a good time. i hope you've had a great time at home as well. so thank you, dame andrea jenkyns. thank you, ryan, mark parsons and our spin doctors here, andy williams and peter barnes. i don't think you really channelled our alastair

campbell and dom cummings. thankfully anyone fancy gave it a go . a go. >> thank you all for sticking with me tonight. >> my first time doing this live, so apologies for any autocue issues, but you've got someone more professional up next. you've got the brilliant leo kearse with the saturday night showdown. thank you so much for watching the saturday five and we'll be back next week when i'm sure darren grimes will be returning. thank you all. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers . sponsors of boxt boilers. sponsors of weather on gb news. >> hello. here's your latest weather update from the met office for gb news over the next few days. weather will be turning increasingly unsettled. we will start to see some outbreaks of rain developing, even some thunderstorms in places. that's because high pressure starting to pull away to the northeast of the uk, allowing our south easterly flow to develop and this warm front starting to introduce some cloud from the south. and that's certainly the case as we head for the evening into the overnight period, more in the way of cloud pushing northwards

across england and wales. some showers starting to break out. so locally heavy, particularly towards the far south and southeast towards the end of the night where the odd thunderstorms possible. so the clear skies looking towards the northwest across parts of scotland and northern ireland, and here turning quite chilly in some rural spots into mid to upper single figures holding up though in the south. quite a humid night across some southern areas with lows in the high teens celsius. as for sunday, well, we'll start the day across the north and northwest of the uk on a fine note, any early mist and low cloud lifting to give some sunshine at times, but the sunniest weather towards the far north—west of scotland, heading further south into england and wales more in the way of cloud around. and at this stage in the morning we'll start to see a few showers breaking out, but particularly across the central and southern part of england. here again, 1 or 2 heavy, even thundery showers are possible. as we head through the day, those showers start to become more extensive across some central and southern parts of england , eventually working of england, eventually working their way north into parts of northern england, into the afternoon too. so it's a north—west of the uk and across some western spots, seeing the best of the lingering brightness with 1 or 2 lighter showers

here. but those showers across england and wales, there eastern parts of wales there locally on the heavy side and could give some flooding in places as well. temperatures peaking in the southeast at a very warm and quite humid 27 celsius. as for monday, more low pressure will be in charge, so it stays very unsettled, but we could see some further thundery showers across the east and northeast of the uk , the east and northeast of the uk, with rain also working its way in from the west, eventually turning fresher out across parts of northern ireland. temperatures here no better than 18 celsius in the afternoon. an unsettled start into the coming working week, but things perhaps turning a bit drier towards the middle part of the week, with temperatures returning to the seasonal average . seasonal average. >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news

>> hello there. coming up in the saturday night showdown as britpops biggest band reunites, the guardian has labelled oasis

as the most damaging pop cultural force in recent british history. but does this accusation really stack up, or is it just left wing cultural elites sneering at the working class? and as angela rayner lives it up in ibiza? keir starmer wants to ban smoking outside pubs. boris johnson has waded into the free speech row, but seemed to forget that he oversaw the creation of the authoritarian legislation that starmer will use to police our speech. starmer will use to police our speech . and elon musk's x, speech. and elon musk's x, formerly known as twitter , has formerly known as twitter, has been banned in brazil over a row about disinformation. it comes in the week when mark zuckerberg said the white house pressured facebook to censor legitimate content. do you believe that our political leaders are just keeping us safe from fake news, or do they want to control the narrative? this is your saturday night showdown .