it will be at 17:17 and midnight will be at 23:19. thank you very much for being with us in this news series. let's go to the economics desk studio and join my colleagues in this group. mr. azaribagha hello, mrs. khalji, also greetings and courtesy and respect to the dear viewers, welcome to the economy desk. in today's economy table, different views about how. we will examine the allocation of ardonan's subsidy, of course, our opportunity on channel 1 has ended. also, watch the economy on khabar channel.

recently, the renewed courtesy and respect of the leader of the revolution they emphasized real competition as one of the pillars of the election. in explaining the real competition, they said that the field should be open for the presence of various political, economic and cultural tendencies in the big election race so that all viewpoints are active in this field. one of the topics about which different views have been formed is how to explain the flour and bread subsidy. whether the subsidy should be given directly to the people or allocated to flour and bakers , the parliament has also discussed this issue in different periods , well, in this picture you are watching , i will explain the issue more. ardonan has 20 thousand billion tomans for the year 1403. there are two views on how to spend this subsidy. the first view is that the subsidy should be paid directly to the people. the second point of view says that

subsidies should be allocated to flour and bakers, which is the same issue that is still going on now. in today's economics table, we will examine these two views . first, let's see a report, we will come back , we are with the guests of your service program. for a long time , there have been various discussions on the issue of ardonan subsidy, and two views are more visible in this field. the first point of view is to give a direct subsidy to buy bread people and free. the game is the price of bread. one of the people who has this opinion is mr. hojatullah nasiri, the head of the karaj bakers union, who says: bread has lost its real value among people because it is sold cheaper than its real price. mr. pishor, the head of the union of agricultural unions, says in this context: flour subsidy should be given directly to the people, because when the subsidy is given to production, it creates rent and the cost is spent on it does not reach the baker.

another person who believes that subsidies should be given directly to the people, mr. mohammad javad karmi, the head of the bakers' union is hajim of tehran, who says that in the current situation, the government, bakers and people are unhappy, but if the bread subsidy is paid directly to the people, the bakers will compete with each other in terms of quality. but the other group says that the subsidy should be given directly to the producers and non-producers, like mr. afra. an economic expert who says that the subsidy to bakers is more controllable and can be seriously monitored, mr. nazafati, the executive director of the flour and bread subsidy smart plan, is one of the people who agrees with giving the subsidy to bakers, because the annual percentage of inflation we have it in the country and if we want give a fixed number to the people, regardless of inflation , it will be difficult for low-income people to buy bread . mr. mohammad tahir rahimi, an economic expert

, says that the price liberalization of some goods in the past is the reason for the payment of subsidies to production and non-production. mohammad elhari news agency radio and television, you are a viewer of the economy desk . first of all, i would like to introduce the guests of the program to you: mr. hassan hasan khani, an economic researcher, mr. mohammad javad karmi, an activist in the ardonan area, mr. asghar pabarja, an expert in the ardonan area, and mr. mohammad bazargan, a senior expert. people should be paid or should i be assigned to flour and bakers in the current form , in the name of allah, the most merciful , the most merciful? that before we decide what policy

to implement in the case of ardonan and make a decision on that policy, we must first politicize this area and now all the areas of the target goods, especially the basic goods. let's politicize the target area, especially livelihood goods, goods that are items they are considered necessary for the people and the price elasticity of demand for these goods is almost zero . in economic terms, the chain of production, distribution and consumption of these goods must be made clear . if a subsidy is to be given to the people, it must be targeted. finally, the allocation should be made, the allocation should be made, they should be completely targeted, so now , what is your opinion, should this subsidy be paid to the people, or to women, the experience of making it expensive and paying people in cash has been implemented in this country since 1989, you know better

when saying that the targeted subsidies were 4,500 at that time allocating taman to the people and making a series of goods more expensive today after nearly 11-12 years. if you consider it in the same year in the same period , then something will happen, but we don't know that the shocks like the origin of your interpretation , the prices of the goods become unrealistic, naturally, the interpretation that was used at that time, yes, the price fluctuations in our country are sanctioned. it has caused that the distance of some of the distance of many items of goods of tradeable goods is mainly yes. find a meaningful figure outside the borders , a bag of flour, which here, for example , is 40,000 tomans, including subsidies, outside of borders cost 600,000 tomans, so indifference in this area will cause damage. it is possible for you or you to pay it. if we want

to answer this question, whoever proposes any policy, you must answer four precise questions . first of all, what is the problem? is there a problem? price difference between borders and outside. is it from the borders? is the problem of our dependence on imports and lack of supply? is the problem actually a production problem? we don't have production statistics, or our production is not sufficient, or our production is not efficient . the one who the policy is proposing either payment to the bakers and the network or payment to the people . explain that now i will explain a part of this , where exactly this proposal solves the problem . i believe that increasing the price of goods, especially basic goods , and paying cash to people for them is not a solution. why is it not a solution, because after a while, if your payment

remains constant, naturally, in high inflation, the amount of fixed payment and people's purchasing power will decrease. he finds that our problem is not the amount of payment to the people we want to preserve the purchasing power of your people . subsidy should be paid to the chain. certainly, if the subsidy is paid to the chain and we can make the chain transparent, the economic ruling government can make the chain transparent. by paying the subsidy to the chain, the rate can be kept low, and now if i don't know, friends, this is the chain that you are talking about, so finally, which part of the woman , we have 6 links, 6 policy bottlenecks in the ardonan chain, where should you consider buying a guarantee that will happen and be paid to the farmer until this wheat is purchased? or imported and delivered to the silo it can be as long as

it is delivered from the silo to the flour company, in fact to the flour production company, until it is delivered from the production company to the baker, and until it becomes bread and people to people. it means that all the links in this subsidy chain have received the plan from the end of the chain and started clarifying these six bottlenecks . how big is this country or is it because of you? well, if we want to make the production circle and actually deliver bread to the people transparent, of course. the end of the chain is where people record transactions , and with this plan and the one we are witnessing today, yes , the smartening of the subsidy . we have transactions, almost 30% of the volume

of shatab payment network related to this plan . we have a very progressive law in the country called the law of store terminals and saman maadi. which soon, god willing, it is going to be implemented comprehensively, the most important part of which is the intelligentization of bread subsidy, of course, it has already started , and it has started to be implemented again. yes, mr. k. mr. doctor, raising an issue related to the production problem, in fact, in the ardanan production discussion , yes, what problem did this subsidy cause in the discussion. bread production, i would like to ask you to see that in the production department, now that this

is happening, it is happening in the chain, that is, there is a subsidy , it will be explained in the chain , so let's see the problems of this chain first, what happened, now we have actually come to this, we have a problem with i will tell you about the problems of this plan. our discussion as bread producers is that in 1400 , the government came and gave us a price for bread. now. two years have passed, our expenses have gone up , we have nothing to do, how does the government want to explain this subsidy, we are talking about considering the last link, which is bread production , is it right that we come to the unit for two years? we will not allow the producer to increase the price, then we will tell him that the costs will be the same as 1402. well, these are the problems that exist in the bread production industry.

there are consumers of bread, they are unhappy , what is the reason for their dissatisfaction? in fact, the devices that were installed in the units, i tell you that this plan has actually failed completely and was not successful .

we are completely against this plan and our opinion is that it should go towards paying to people's accounts , because in this situation that has arisen for us as a bread producer, the conditions have become difficult for us and these machines that are now it is installed in our units every day. in fact, the monitoring is happening. we are not against monitoring, but you can see that the bakers have daily quotas that are decreasing every day. in fact, what do you think about

this matter, should this ardonan subsidy be paid directly to the people or not and the various links of the chain, in the name of allah, the most merciful , the most merciful? we are against giving the bakers, the reason is that we believe that the cost paid by the government is very heavy . the year is getting more and more low, why is inter not welcomed? we are under a lot of pressure because of the few bags of money he gets from the government. pressured and tired of this current situation, as mr. kerami said, we

are now under pressure from the regulatory agencies, because i bought a shop that is commercial and the price is very high. bread has an effect, it should all be involved in the court and i don't know the punishments of passing the answer to the supervisory authorities, sir, who are you, what did you do, how many tattoos did you do, and this caused the quality of our name to go down.

the time ahead of the parliament that will be formed, now those who want to enter the parliament in a competition with each other , should actually express this issue and raise it in the parliament, and how can this issue actually be raised in the parliament, and the expectations will be met, i think the parliament in the future, god willing, he should come with a new idea in such a way that these government expenses are reduced . currently, the government expenses are spent on giving subsidies that are not used in his own way. why do we want to continue something that upsets everyone ? mr. majlis representatives should think about reducing these costs, one of the costs is to

subsidize the people themselves. we want our people to eat good bread, to eat high-quality bread . now we ourselves are upset with this current situation, why hasn't the government given me a rate for several years , then it tells me that you go, because i will reduce you, i will reduce the quality of bread, for sure, the quality of bread will decrease, for sure , healthy bread will not reach our compatriots. strength ingredients and ingredients that you decide to do this, then see if the bread is better or not, or if the flour consumption goes down. why should we go abroad now? people, or to my chain , i offer greetings, courtesy and respect to you, dear viewers and guests

of your program. i will answer the question first. i will tell you and then i will go into the factors of this case . my opinion is that if the government is going to pay a subsidy , it should be paid to the final consumer, just as it is in the field of wheat production . it does not give to the farmer himself, that is, to the producer at the top of the line or to the final consumer at the bottom of the line, but the thing that caused this dissatisfaction you see now is the most important. spectrum is present in your program. someone who is a member of the bakers union says, sir, don't give it to us , don't give it to the consumer, do you know why? the main reason is that the government, instead of being in

its true form of law, i.e. monitoring the affairs, comes wearing the clothes of interference, it enters into all affairs , what does it interfere in, and in the implementation, see who is responsible for monitoring the law. it comes on its own , it is implemented. we have always had this story in the past years, both in the field of agricultural production and in the field of consumption, because the government wants to keep the real price of production and with price suppression can be managed with a command economy. this is the biggest damage in the field of social management, that you enter in all matters, in all matters, you want to enter in the implementation, whether you come in or after , in the form of my supervision, you must see when you have this subsidy at your disposal and you want to give it when you you are monitoring it, you are implementing the government , you are implementing it, see what has been done, mr. azaribagha, the government

is coming and saying, sir, i have a hundred and my friends said 150 billion, and next year, the government should pay 230 thousand billion regarding the flour subsidy, yes, 20 thousand billion tomans for me. there is, look at the head the line in wheat production is coming, the government suppresses the price of wheat with the price ordered by the pricing council and the show that it has set does not allow the real price of wheat production to be presented. this is the result of his interference . he takes the subsidy that he wants to give to the consumer from the farmer's pocket. he takes the subsidy that he wants to give to the consumer again. it seems that you were talking to your friends now, and they said, sir, it has been 2 years, and you don't give a

price. farmer, the cost of his production last year was 1642 tomans for one kilo of wheat . the government has come and announced the price of 15 thousand tomans. they suppressed it. now, isn't mr. bazargan's guaranteed purchase rate higher than the international rates ? the government has bought when the exchange rate of wheat in the world is the price of wheat in the world today and you don't see the neighbor, we the neighboring countries that now that the world price is actually a benchmark

, they say that the world price is 13, the world price is 13,000 tomans. look, mr. azaribaga , when the government announced the price of wheat at 15,000 tomans, the world price was close to 20,000 tomans. have you seen the components of the guaranteed purchase law , it did not say that the world price means the world price, the exchange rate of goods in the region, the finished cost of production, all of these are involved . let's not get off topic, you can see the real price of wheat you oppress the farmer, you don't allow the real price to be the farmer, who has to apply fertilizer and buy his machinery at a wide price, with an up-to-date currency and free price, and then you have to suppress his wheat with

the guaranteed purchase price, which is the order, in fact, in the world market of the governments of different countries. they buy all these items that you mentioned at international prices , please tell me once again, i am saying that in the world market , farmers also buy these items that you mentioned at the same international prices. yes, but the government does not set the price of wheat for them, the price is free , the exchange is free. see, you and i are farmers who said it would be 13,000 tomans, the purchase price of wheat, the international price, who said it would be 13,000 tomans , the government expert would announce this , the government expert would say that, you are talking about yourself and laugh at yourself. wow, you are an artist , the government expert, announcing with the cost of the site, a simple search check will be done. this is what 100 of you have calculated . we will get the price of the world wheat price in the chicago stock exchange

, we will get the price in argentina, and then you will see the same product for 14 dollars or 14 dollars . the cost has been spent for the subject. it should be included in all these six chains, the six factors that are in the form of one chain , come and give bribes to all of them, who will monitor them, see that the government's intervention in these

matters creates the basis of rent and corruption. you should visit my bakery now, from the price of 2000 tomans to 1500 tomans in the cities to 3000 tomans in tehran, sangg is available up to 30 thousand tomans , which means that the government has bought tezmin . we have a guaranteed purchase of dola wheat, two guaranteed prices of wheat, the azad government will leave when the farmer is free to provide his own institution, why is he suppressing the price of his production? you can see what part of agriculture will be removed from the wheat production cycle this year because it is not profitable to produce. this import should be allowed to be free, it is true, wheat import , wheat import, yes, import should be free, no, no , import should be free, there is a reason, see when you say guaranteed purchase price. where does the government

want to buy from ? is the domestic price in the government's favor, or is the import in dollars, with which dollar, with which supply, does it want to import and export, with which country, with the currencies that are reported in various news agencies today? we can hear what is happening. yes , our telephone connection with mr. mohammad sadegh afra , economic expert , mr. afra, is open .

you can see which poverty level of the society consumes more bread, whether it is from the middle to low or from the middle to high, of course, it is not about the subsidy , but how to pay this subsidy to the people or whether it is actually allowed to be paid. i am 100% against that he wants to be paid in cash and that is the experience of the year in the past, one b wants to advance the working class, who wants to be paid by the society's employees, and the society will compensate for this with the inflation rate of the day, and god forbid, the cash grants must go with the inflation rate, so how can they not stay with the inflation rate? for example, this should be approved several times a year, similar to the

electronic catalog that is actually now. well, gentlemen, you see, usually after some damage is done to the society , they hold a meeting to decide what to do and what to do, so why do we have to do this with a more controllable system with a system like this, for example, the issue of the cartoons that have been posted well, if there is a weakness , fix it, i am surprised, for example, it is sometimes suggested that the members of the upcoming parliament should legislate, what

does that mean, this flour and bread system is not in charge of controlling the bakers, that is, there is no monitoring system, so when we cannot, for example, in at the national level, i don't know how to control a number of bakeries , how is the trustee, but now you have also seen the discussion in the journal about the system of the discussion that actually there is still flour from the supply outside the network, so now that

there can be both monitoring and an information system. if there is, of course, 5 per day.