the importance of elections in choosing one. someone strong , the key is in the hands of the people, the iranian coach , sharaf iran, has a telegram, he is playing with the whole country, why are you pricing this month? your question is an interesting question.

whatever we are, we are higher tomorrow, in the name of god , greetings, politeness and respect to each one of you , dear and respected viewers of the special higher program of the leadership of the revolution. different political economic and cultural should be open so that all these different views can have a real competition in the big election race . one of the issues on which experts disagree is the fair explanation of the budget for all students . this is the main question and the main question of our debate. whether all students of all universities should benefit from the higher education budget in the same way or not is up for debate.

jihad university and university of tehran, which are with us, as opposed to the issue , allow me to start with mr. mohseni and the question of how much you agree that this budget it should be allocated for the same higher education for all students. well, in the name of god , i offer my greetings and courtesy to the viewers and to his excellency, as the host of this program, as well as mr. ghafurian. see, your question should be raised with this introduction, whether the budget should basically be given to universities for education or not. or for research activities, well, this answer is definitely positive in my opinion, our universities

should be given according to the time of their establishment . the applicability of the message of light in this distance, no , no, no, no, no, no, see, first of all, the principle of the budget should be accepted for the universities , the universities of our state universities, we are talking about these universities, but the ratio of this budget. how to explain to these universities , there are different criteria, one of them is per capita of students that these universities announce during the academic years , and based on that, they can define a budget and receive one of them, in fact, the provision of educational facilities and spaces, and the number of board members. it is important to have the number of employees, which should be considered. three

the factor or three specific criteria of student per capita , faculty members and staff should be proportional and based on that, they will be allocated funds . universities also perform big tasks, like tehran university, and actually to the country. they serve and their budget may be different based on this. of course, you should not look at this budget only as the figure that is announced at the beginning of each year. it is a budget, then it faces an inflation during that year and with a cost in fact, this budget should be closed . it can be said that many of the budgets paid to universities, especially public universities , are a percentage of their annual expenses, and the universities should be able to do so. the educational

or research affairs or other services that they provide can provide part of their budget themselves, as they have big universities, they do this after we say that we have a criterion to divide this thousand tomans among 10 higher education institutions or universities. this is basically not acceptable at all, it's like deciding to everyone let's give shoe number 42, while the numbers of the shoes on our feet are different from each other , so justice here means correct distribution based on the number of faculty members per capita, the performance history of the services that this university is providing, and the reception that is received from this university. and the maintenance costs that this has for the facilities in the laboratory and the faculty, etc., this budget is defined every year, so the budget cannot be the same as the institutions of higher education, mr. ghafourian

, what is your opinion ? i am at your service, mr. dr. mohseni and dear viewers, it seems to me that in fact, the higher education system in the country, like in many other countries , is related to governance duties, which should have appropriate credits to perform those duties. the point is that in the laws this is predicted, and in fact , in the industrial budgets, in the development programs , they predict the number and digit for the government system. this is that we have a change in conditions in the country since perhaps the beginning when the constitution was written and this prediction was also in the third principle that in fact the government should support free education at the level higher education

has changed conditions in the country until now, and with the same indicators that were actually used to determine credit and budget for higher education. it seems that maybe it needs to be revised now. i mean that this has happened to the extent that higher education in our country needs the support and allocation of government credits, and it seems that we should not do more in the field of government credits. let's see that part of the below. the higher education system of the country is called , for example, supported state universities, just put them on this basis, i think that a revision is needed in the way of explaining the credits in the field of higher education, and perhaps we can, for example

, summarize in this way that in fact, the share of public universities from the credits actually available in the country should be more limited than what is currently in the regulations. it is predicted that at that time, how will other sub-systems of higher education, such as azad, non-tefai 's, etc., have these credits , can you talk more about it , mr. mohseni, what do you think? disposition their budget is a bit vague i mean, the truth is, i didn't understand what they mean by revision, do they mean that we should eliminate the budget of government educational institutions or not, let's say that you

should increase or decrease a certain percentage of your budget , we should ask you for a service, see the revision. in another way, if you explain this, i will tell you, if you agree, what you mean is not very clear to me. revision is a word that can be interpreted in many ways. it is so certain that you do not want it to be cut, that you want this budget to be cut. somehow find another explanation, how now? it should be, you think, how can we do this when you have a university like sharif university of technology, we have a university like tehran university. which carries one of the main tasks of the country's university branding. now here we have named a proof that we have many good universities in our own country. how can we do this with a university that has been established for several years and has no output

? for example, don't forget my question. see, see, i am not the standard of your characteristic output. if they get a budget like tehran university or sharif university, what does that mean, how should we come? let's find out what is the ranking of these universities, how do we do them, what role do they play in the production of science in the country , the universities you mentioned, well , we should consider the scientific criteria as an example . which university and from where? in fact, one percent or two percent of scientists are the best here. well, look, we will give a budget to the universities. on that side, we want something from them, what is it? carrying the scientific reputation

of that country. now, if we come to cut off this budget or revise it as you say, i will i don't know what the word revision means, who do you want those duties from? who do you want to do those tasks? let me give an explanation, see what i mean. governance is a duty to provide services. for the performance of these tasks, credits are provided in the budget every year. regulations were written when we did not have any active sector in the field of higher education except the government sector. azad university was established in 1961. non-profit universities were established in 1965. from the 3rd, you are faced with a wide network of higher education that has the means to provide services. your excellency, you point out that a series of services are offered in public universities

, i accept. but let's accept that in the network of universities and non-governmental higher education institutions, including non-profit and similar, they have actually reached a maturity in these years that they can contribute, that is, part of the government's duty in providing higher education services to non-governmental sectors. they are in charge of the government , but for this service they are providing , they do not have any share of government credits, on the other hand , why should our public universities enter tuition-paying courses, if they have a sovereign duty, then they should fulfill their sovereign duty. they get funding, why do they enter courses and why do they enter themselves into competition with the private sector, that is , we are facing an unequal competition in the country of our state-owned brands with the prestige they have. in fact

, they are confiscating the share of open higher education for their own benefit. i would like to add one more point. if we accept that the government universities are responsible for that part of the fields , that part of the education has more of a governance aspect. what is the reason that our state universities include some fields of this kind in the education of all fields of study? and there is justification it should stay in the same public university with the same budget . i mean, when i say that it should be revised, it means that the share can even be reduced, and the rest should be handed over to the private sector, which has found this capability in these 3 decades . ah, mr. mohsen, you see, now there is a problem here. it was brought up as the competition of public universities with urban methods of processing, which i have a criticism of, in fact , it is not like this. and another issue that was raised is the distribution of educational duties among different institutions, such as

government institutions or, in fact, institutions that are private , such as azad university, non-profit universities, mr. doctor, i heard that we have nearly 2,800 institutions of higher education in our country. now, see, this is not a small number. you see, i want to tell you about that sharia-based method , that they are really reputable universities. it has a historical meaning, when we want to say authentic , we don't want to say that other universities that have a license to work are not authentic . i think that ghorbani's prestigious universities are actually the same other social problems. for example, the same city that you mentioned, well, look, for example, when we

are faced with phenomena in some decades that students from countries go to neighboring countries for postgraduate studies, no , we do not know the quality of the degree they give, no, we do not know what kind of education they receive there, we do not know. what language is taught there, and first of all, the student goes to a neighboring country whose university is unknown to us. secondly, he goes to study in special fields such as medicine, dentistry, those that are related to people's lives and comes back. in this country it wants to work, so see what we have to do here now, you tell us what our non-profit universities are doing, what our private universities are doing , nothing. or create a dance in the free zone so that the student

instead of going to another country where it is not at all clear what kind of education he will receive there and at all. our financial education system will accept this education or not , should he get his degree , study at tehran university in the international outlet of tehran university, yes and sacrifice. you yourself say that we were placed in this competition, no, it's not like that at all, we don't think at all that we want to generate income , compete , destroy the economy market of higher education in the private sector, of course, i don't deny, mr. doctor, this happens naturally. if tehran university goes to an educational institution in a place like kish island , it is normal that it is another university. now suppose, for example, this is your university , this is the university of this department, the university departments of jihad , our university units are there, it is natural that a student enrolls in tehran university.

the right to choose is natural and it goes back to the valid concept that we talked about. this should be clarified here. state universities such as tehran university, shahid beheshti university, sharif university and other universities , whose names i will not mention based on memory, they are also sacrificed . how much do you think they earn except from this field? all of this income has been spent, all of it has been used, the construction of the building , but they have been sacrificed, and now one should think about their sacrifice, mr. ghafourian, so i can tell you my point, mr. doctor. now, the campuses that you gave as an example , by the way, i think that in that story of the tuition fee payer, maybe their contribution is not

very significant. the campuses are based on a one-time policy. two criticisms have been made, one is whether the requirement and function that made us create international campuses in the past years is still valid or not, and the second point is that a report should show the success of this decision now. do you really prevent? from the departure of students to, for example, neighboring countries, or not , or if it was established at the time , does it exist now or not, but i said that its share in total is actually the unfair competition that exists with the private sector in the field of higher education, in my opinion, campuses are not very important let me tell you something , what are we discussing? look, we have article 30 in

the constitution. article 30 is one of the ambiguous principles of the constitution. he says that the government is obliged to provide free education facilities for all the people until the end of the period provide high school and expand the means of higher education to the limit of self-sufficiency for free. well , you know this principle. in fact, it refers to another principle in the constitution, that is, paragraph 3 of the third principle , where the same phrase is repeated in this way that it is almost the same, yes, the same is repeated , and then you see, we have a problem

, many people think. we have now reached the limit of self-sufficiency. so it is not necessary for us to have public universities that provide free education . first of all, this word self-sufficiency is mentioned in another place in the constitution, that is in the section agriculture, for example, has said in the agricultural sector that we should progress so much in agriculture that we become self-sufficient. and don't depend on foreigners. see , this issue must be resolved. we can say self-sufficiency in agriculture, but we can't in science. because this word self-sufficiency is a problem , sir, we need to find independence in providing

for our own educational and research needs in the up to secondary sector, which is characterized by the fact that it should be free, but anyway , the guardian council has interpreted it and said that it does not prevent the establishment of private schools. in the field of higher education, they say that we have now reached the limit of self-sufficiency, one of the basics your argument is that you don't open this much now . i don't know why. i believe that we have never reached self-sufficiency in knowledge and we won't because self-sufficiency is a fluid subject that is changing every year . another thing will come up , nano technology will come up sometime. at one time, other technologies were mentioned, these are different, so first of all, we must be independent in meeting the needs, secondly, you should see that self-sufficiency

has another problem, and that is that we must support the scientific production of the country until it benefits the people. so , how do you want us to interpret this word self-sufficiency, that is, let's say that we now have enough education in fields such as philosophy, no, we should not give money to the universities that say students should take philosophy or we have salaries , we should not give money to the universities at all. from this principle, this, this, this issue, mr. ghafurian's opinion, let me say this, see mr. bozur, i believe that we have not yet reached the limit of self-sufficiency in higher education and we cannot reach this.

not only has it been realized that we have crossed the border, with this explanation that seems to me, this is what i am going to say i think that this principle is one of the most ambiguous. now mr. ghafourian says that we have arrived . yes, this is my explanation. maybe this will help to understand the matter. of course , yes, during the constitutional negotiations when this principle was approved, there was not much discussion about this word. what was his point of view, but two minimum concepts can be understood from self-sufficiency in higher education: one, you don't need to send students abroad, often , not without exception, two , you don't need to enter university graduates, which i think this has been realized for a long time, the reason is actually objective we currently

have many unemployed university graduates in the country, which means that we have more educated people than the market needs, which shows that we have crossed those boundaries. many of those who are even employed are working in their own non-specialized fields, which means that university education is auxiliary. to. the discussion of employment or the purpose for which that person entered for his education is not addressed to you. it means that self-sufficiency is not knowledge. mr. doctor, self-sufficiency is learned knowledge. we have crossed the border of learned self-sufficiency as an output of higher education. i would like to give an example. excellent in total budget the country is a number about one and a half percent of the country's budget. it has become a little closer to d. many other countries have similar problems

, their share is less than this amount. according to the report of the research center of japan, sweden, portugal, the share of higher education in their public sector is less than 1% of the total budget. it is their country, i mean, i want to say that this amount of investment that happened in iran is possible. in my opinion, even if it is not enough, it is sufficient in comparison, in my opinion, to the extent that was mentioned in the constitution, that is, self-sufficiency has been met in that internal need, and by the way, more than that it seems that now the contribution is being paid to government institutions, which means that now china, which has so many students in the world, is not self-sufficient according to your definition of china. the model of the higher education department is completely different , that is, it is completely state-owned. well, no, now you see, if we don't need to send students, this means self-sufficiency, and

i can't accept this at all. first of all, how do you know that all the trainings that we give in our universities are trainings? it is given in all universities of the world, but it is not like that, so we still need students to go abroad let's send it and although our domestic universities are very strong and powerful , they solve many parts of these needs, but in no way. in my opinion, we still have a long way to go before we become, for example, in such a way that there is no need for this self-sufficiency , how do you define it, mr. doctor ? it does not mean the amount of

education institutions. we should have the opportunity to benefit from the various sciences that are being cultivated and taught in the world, even by sending students. let's return it means that the political , social, cultural, economic situation of our country should be the same as the current situation when this student left . students all want to do other parts of their studies in foreign countries . . we

were sending him abroad for persian literature . is it possible for you to pay attention to such a thing? look , i am not saying that he should be sent or use the knowledge of others . my point is that you can see that we can say self-sufficiency in the agricultural sector and develop agriculture in small ways. let's say, for example, what is the level of intelligence i know that we should increase a certain product and not import that product again, but never. yes, it is possible that we can produce specialized knowledge in our own country in a suitable form that is used by various professional institutions and specialized institutions in our country, but this does not mean that we no longer need to send students from another country there. let's study, i don't believe, this is not the meaning. now, doctor, tell me.

i am at your service. an example is dr. mohsenizaden regarding the fact that, for example, fields that seem to be like philosophy were their example, which have become obsolete. for example, this should no longer be free, for example, for my education, by the way, let me say the opposite. look , it seems to me that the higher education of the public sector of higher education, if it has the duty of governance, it should come to enter the fields that are for the private sector of higher education or fields of study. the basic sciences, which we have a crisis in the country now , must be in charge of the students to go to them. these fields are not very attractive for non-governmental sectors because there are not many applicants. by the way , the government should focus on such fields, otherwise it will be a field. what a good job market i am more interested in why the government sector should

enter. if there is a competition, by the way, he can give these up, i don't know, accounting is one of the most widely used fields, even though now it is possible for all kinds of management fields, which have capabilities in the private sector, to come out of these, then you will see that the same government credits. the current situation is sufficient for the expenses of our public higher education . they don't need tuition-paying courses anymore . i would like to add one more point. those who have this interest to continue their studies and necessarily enter a university field that does not exist here, do not make this decision, they have other reasons, it may be cultural, it may be economic, which is mostly the case, otherwise if it was only a scientific issue.