there are opponents to the method of increasing the retirement age , that basically, there should be reforms and the resolution of pension fund disputes . the age reform should have started from the side of your presence, or from other places. we have discussed it in the previous ones. in this program, with the presence of two experts, we would like to discuss it again and invite you to join us until the end. please, thank you , mr. faizinejad, technical and insurance deputy of the national pension fund, is present here in the upper studio in favor of raising the retirement age , mr. esadi, a member of the legal committee of the center of workers' trade unions, is present as an opponent of raising the retirement age. retirement with the greetings of god, strength

to both guests, i would like to start with mr. asadi and this question, mr. asadi, why are you against increasing the retirement age, in the name of allah, the most merciful, first of all , correct your commander, correct his age and experience , that is, in the development plan what has been seen is both the age reform for retirement and the former reform , we have an age increase for men up to 62 years and also an increase in the payment of insurance premiums or years payment of insurance premiums for up to 35 years of service, i would like to tell you that there is a need for quantitative or parametric reforms that all social security funds have, but whether these parametric reforms are timed or whether there is a suitable time for them or not. second , whether this measure.

can the changes that are made be fruitful or not ? the main issue is that it seems that acting on a case-by-case basis is not successful , that is, it is not in the interest of the social security fund. the second problem that exists in this regard is that pension funds are seen as the same, even though retirement they have different functions . the social security fund is not compatible with the national pension fund or other funds. they are not of the same age. you cannot apply a single prescription for them. when you apply a single prescription for a patient who is different , naturally, the treatment obtained is certainly not effective, in your opinion. you have raised so many questions, one that the time has come, the other one should be fruitful. yes, you said that

it is not fruitful . i don't think it is time. in my opinion, this so-called effectiveness must be accompanied by another item. or take action from the pockets of the insured to improve the resources of the social security organization , it is not a good thing, mr. faizinejad, why do you agree? are you of retirement age? in the name of allah, the merciful , the merciful, i offer my greetings, courtesy and respect to the honorable guest and dear viewers. i congratulate you on the holy month of ramadan and the spring of the quran and the spring of nature . look, we must keep one thing in mind in relation to this issue, and that is that we are talking about insurance funds . insurance funds

are intergenerational funds. they do not belong to current retirees. mother pension fund, the average payment of our pension in terms of service history is 29 years , that is, from the time the person retired until today , he has received 29 years of pension, which means that it has taken almost a third of this time . it will be done and from that time we will start receiving retirement benefits from him until he retires. there is a special rule based on the national employment law or the civil service management law, and definitely when he retires, we will follow the same law and principles. insurance and insurance that we have, pension for him we calculate that in the future

, other rules and regulations will be established that we will be forced to have another payment or have another condition for retirement despite those rules and principles of our insurance. this is outside the principles of insurance, and it should definitely affect the insurance funds, and they will go out of that insurance mode , but they will become a support fund, definitely, if we are within the framework of the laws of the above regulations, like the law of the society of the positive social security system of 2083. and the strong communication policies of the news media should be kept in mind when paying we should always be careful what we apply should be insurance, don't make an emotional decision , don't make a temporary decision, look at the issue of increasing age, something that

definitely affects pensions and the foundation of the pension fund, we count on our employees. this pension rule and the rule of the insurance principles governing the insurance funds confuses and weakens the funds, and when the funds weaken, we become dependent on the general budget of the government because we cannot

pay the pensions from our own resources. according to the pension fund, how much does it depend on? therefore, we need to make parametric reforms. it is not necessary now. in the past , we should have thought about this. one of our parametric reforms is the age increase, which has now been accepted in 17 countries of the world and we are working on it. how dependent are you on the budget of 1990? the percentage of our salaries and pensioners' salaries from the general budget of the government , mr. asadi, are you convinced, mr. doctor , that in fact this is one of the insurance requirements or rules that should be increased the age and also the increase in the history will follow, but in reality , this increase in the history of the history will be followed by the approval of this look at the law. following this, a law was introduced in the development plan to

adjust the salaries of pensioners or retirees when this was approved by the parliament. naturally, since he had a financial burden, they should provide some resources for him, to come for resources to predict the retirement age for the insured or workers, which means , in fact , they want to take from the pockets of the insured and workers and put them in their pockets, naturally , they cannot. it's true, see that proportionality is actually the primary and main reason for the disproportionality of the pension of the government's own insurance, at least in the last 10 years, the way in which the pension is somehow increased. it has been that my help leads everyone to the minimum wage earner, that is, the insured who retired with the maximum wage 10 years ago, for example

, will receive the minimum wage after 15 years . he wants to provide his resources and provide workers from my pocket. this cannot be correct . when we open something called other levels in the annual pension increase, we say, sir, insured persons who receive at least 35% of other levels 22 after a few years. year other levels reach the minimum wage, then you look at a person who from the beginning to the end his service or most of his service status has come and paid richly. after a few years , you can get the minimum wage, then you come and go, you propose in the legislative assembly , you approve it, whatever happens to fix this disparity, from whose pocket, again from the worker's pocket, does the worker make the decision here , or did he want these wage levels?

to increase in this way means that the government , what it has done, does not provide the resources that it should provide by itself . it tries to provide the resources from the most available source, which is the pocket of the insured and the workers of this country. if the government can pay its debts to provide time to the organization. he can pay socially, he can pay his debts at the daily rate , he can pay his insurance debts in a way that they can be liquidated, they can be liquidated according to today's saying, or the one who can solve the problem, besides that, he can be insured out of pocket and it should use the pockets of employers and the pockets of workers to provide these resources, but it wants

to spend money from the pockets of workers and insured people only for the problem of their dissatisfaction. naturally, this is not acceptable. now , when the government approves things in the annual budget to pay its debts to social security. tick pay, sometimes they are so strict that it is not possible to pay at all, sometimes they give money or companies and institutions to the social security organization instead of their own debts. when it reaches the profit margin, the government imposes a tax on the companies. in this law, you can see the development plan. i emphasize that with the increase in age and experience, the age

for retirement has also increased for men aged 62 and older. the fact that they have 35 years of experience means that an insured person has to work for 35 years to be able to receive the full pension. in this law , there are provisions for the development program that can provide resources for the insured by removing them. no need to push. there should not be a labor society , thank you mr. faizinejad, you accept this from mr. esadi, that this was the most useful thing for the reforms of the funds, until he brought up the issue for the first time, he said that it was not the right time, see what kind of situation we are in now. our average retirement age is 51 years our retirement is 51 years old, the age of hope. life expectancy is now 76 years for men and 78 years for women, and

due to the implementation of the youth law, the population now hires a person with 45 years of experience. he will retire after 6 years, so there is a need for reforms. as for the parameter, one of which is the second age increase, mr. doctor , how dare you say that someone with 6 years of experience can be retired . basically, i wanted to ask. i said that it is not possible at all. i told you the same thing, i told you that if we don't see a change, according to the law on the youth of the population, which now puts the maximum age of employment at 45, when the age of 45 will be employed. our average retirement age is 51. how much does it mean to retire after 6 years?

naturally, mr. doctor feels that one of the conditions for retirement is that there are two conditions: age and experience, which cannot be used only for age. our average retirement age is now 51 years. the average is at least 1. 750,000 million pensioners that our fund has are average, so it must be increased according to the increase. the age of sanid to live on this side let's go for age as one of the parametric reforms. second, we discussed the situation of proportionality. perhaps due to the proportionality or equalization of the salaries of our retirees, some resources have come to us, for example, that we have lost from this. because we, the doctor , have been approved only because of age and experience , please refer to the parliament's deliberations. the law of the sixth development plan required the government

to increase pensioners' salaries in such a way that at the end of the sixth development plan, each retiree would receive 90% of the salary of an equal employee. i was saying that we have some things that may not be in accordance with the insurance principles, for example, in our regulations, we refer to the government as the government and in the implementation of article 98 of the national employment law. it is obligatory that when the pensioner's rights do not compensate for the living conditions and the livelihood of the retirees, he must document it in the same format and take measures to ensure the livelihood of the retirees , but this provision of

livelihood does not necessarily mean an increase in salary, because the increase in salary itself is actually it is a type of liquidity and it is inflationary. they suggested that this was the most convenient thing to do reforms of the funds had to be done and it is not the time. do you agree or disagree with these two statements? no, what i said was that not only is it not time, but it is far past my time because we said that we now have 850,000 people in our joint society. . we have restrictions on official employment, that is, the people who are hired for government purposes

are not official in the government agency. pension fund subscribers must be official employees. note that we practically do not have an entry, and this number is the same 850,000 people who are there now, and our prediction is that in the next 10 years, they will not retire if we do not modify the entry or do not increase the age , which is too much in some way in our parametric changes. it's really late. in four days , how can we really secure pensions ? do we have to reach 100% of the government's general budget ? next to parametric corrections , my personal belief is that this has a lesser role maybe there were more cases than this that we proposed in the program, god willing, we hope that agreeing with them will have the least contribution in this issue and the least contribution in the parametric reforms

, mr. esadi . if we only look at one factor as a contribution to the funds , it cannot be a correct thinking assumption. first of all, the funds are different from each other in nature , the national pension fund is not the same as the social security fund . an expert in an expert they don't see, the presidents are the deputies, but we don't have jobs like that in the social security fund, so you want to adjust it first. he says, "sir, for example , how much salary does a deputy get paid now? he should get a pension. 90% of that salary should be employed. in the social security fund , there is no such structure at all. some of them are workers at all.

not at all, some of them are not insurance payers as if they are getting paid. how do you know how to adjust the salary of a woman who is a housewife? can you fix the death insurance of journalists, for example? you cannot do this. there are some jobs that you the country's fund is defined. in the social security fund , they do not have a definition that a worker who is in optional insurance, for example, where do you want his job? you want to say that this job is actually a job. they are not equal, they don't have a role, well, they don't have the effect of reducing or increasing the age, which you are against , see what the effect is, mr. doctor, you are evading the topic that the life expectancy has increased, yes, in fact, you should increase the time of employment. it is not appropriate

, we took action in this direction, see when you say, but we acted against me, but we acted against me, see i told you that the world is 117 countries, mr. doctor , please don't compare us with the world. the situation of our country is 40 years old. it is a special situation. well, our country is in this special situation that you mentioned. its health and medical indicators have grown so much that we are now 76 years old. it has come for men and 78 for women. well, we came in order to increase our age . what did we do ? we put the retirement law before modo so that they can retire earlier. when they say that our average retirement age is 51, the doctor comes, do those rules really apply? do not come to amend those rules

you don't provide for this one insured in a way that he doesn't have to go find a second job. this is the second job of finding unemployment for someone who is looking for a job, a young person who graduated from sawad university, wants to build a life, wants to go work somewhere and get a salary. imagine a worker whose salary is not enough , naturally, he is the one who wants to hire this force. the retired force is going to hire, mr. doctor, why does the government ban the hiring of retirees for itself, but for others?

no, because if the problem of our country is employment, i remember at that time it was approved in the parliament that why retirees should not be employed. the debate was whether we should pass such a law. for example, 500 positions will be vacant. this discussion is a discussion about employment. on the one hand, the main problem of our country is employment. on the other hand, you say that there is a problem of employment . on the other hand, you say that the retirement age should be increased. well, when the retirement age is increased, the young workforce will no longer be able to go to work. the fact that the current force remains is that it is in conflict with each other, doctor, see, you agree you spoke my words when the width. it was that we not only did not take any action regarding the increase in age, a measure as a parametric reform for the increase in age, but

we also came to put the early retirement law, which means people who sometimes do not even start a family. we have retired, so these will be added to the unemployed population of the society , and we are also against it. after all, the medicine you prescribe does not cure the pain. you can't have hard and harmful jobs when the government itself causes it, it shouldn't have to pay from the pocket of the worker or the insured , who should come to help himself. what does the government want to help ? the government wants to give itself the debt of the social security organization. give the creditor terms and conditions for paying his debt. say , "i will give you 100% if you do such and such a thing. is this true? mr. doctor

says that he can draw a line between the creditor and the debtor for the creditor to do such and such , sir, in this law." you wrote your development plan , the social security fund should be treated in the clinic the uninsured should accept the social security, and it was free . why don't you invite those who don't belong to this fund to come and take it from this table? take care of the fund, pay your debts to the social security organization of the government on time, they will see that this fund can work. we also believe in parametric reforms in general and it should be done, but now is not the time , now that we have a reputation problem. you are now cited

did you refer to article 29 of the seventh plan law , which means that the government should take a series of measures to reduce discontent? i mean, at least my opinion was that the government itself should help . the above law is to reduce our dependence on the general budget of the government . if we accept the first part, the funds will definitely go in the direction of becoming a self-sustaining device, but in the second part, we must accept the parameter reforms. is it possible to do something without our reforms? badim in order to strengthen the fund i meant that we now have 90% of the government's general budget. you are the provision fund. socially, it is not like this. the social security fund is mainly provided by the employer, it is the private sector and a government sector, i am not saying that it is not 20%, what the government gives, in

fact, 20 % has been seen in the name of the government's share or government assistance. this is my minimum mental content, the government has been saying since the beginning of the revolution inver has only paid this 3% once, which is the help that the government should give. he doesn't, he just repays his debt to the fund with terms and conditions. mr. doctor, the structure of the open fund of a country is not different from the social security structure. can you make a single version that works for both funds? mr. faizinejad, i have a question now. according to you, how many of the problems and challenges of the funds have been solved by these parametric reforms

? indeed, during the past years and during the programs, any proposal we had was actually related to the parameter reforms of age and history, the way of assigning history, the way of assigning pensions, and the status of salary payments to employees or pensioners, despite the proposal that we had. none of them are practically implemented, that's the point age increase is the old age increase , the implementation of which depends on how much it can help the fund, how many percent will it solve your problem in the fund mismatch , see in relation to the fund, especially the national pension fund, considering the fact that we note the credit article 3 of the law of regulations, when the employee completes his records , he is exempted from payment and mistakes from another 30 years of experience, and on

the other hand, in the implementation of article 14 of the civil service management law, we have to pay two and a half percent for each year , despite the fact that we do not receive any mistakes. we will give him the difference in pension, maybe it will have an effect on him don't have a fund for yourself, except in addition to other reforms, but give a breathing space to the pension funds in these special circumstances , otherwise we will zoom in on this age change and feel that with this age change, for example, now it is too much for 28 i am 30 years old, which cannot be implemented at all at the moment, something very special will happen to the funds , at least it will not happen to the pension fund, well, when it changes to the bottom of the 28th, it will lower again, but yes, it is changing, but now, until the bottom of the 28th, the time is short, that is, in a short period is a short period of time and in the form of an average it is half effective, the one that needs to be added for 5 years

, that is for incoming people. less than 10 years , that is when the person himself does not request, if he requests at any time, i cannot stay longer with the same ex, that is, there is no obligation, for example, if my experience reaches 30 years and i want to retire, i will be paid 30 days salary, see, it depends. in this law, a percentage will be reduced. just see how much the required history is defined for you with age conditions. if he studies with age conditions, it means with that experience , which is very unlikely, he will get full salary , otherwise, despite the fact that you have 30 years of experience, but you don't have the required experience in that definition. if you become 32 years old, you have to work for 32 years to be able to get a full 30. in fact , our full salary is 32 years for 30 days of salary. if now it is 30 years of work for 30 days of salary, then for example

, 32 years is 3 years. the funds admit to their own internal sources that some funds are given by the government . you cannot say that this is the fault of this fund. the nature of insurance and pension funds is basically going towards disharmony, that is, all over the world , their resources do not cover their expenses after a while. iran has not yet arrived or we are at the time of its occurrence , but the reality is that reaching this point.