will be occupied and a new front will be opened in taiwan like the war front in ukraine. mojtaba ghasemzadeh , london broadcasting agency, today is thursday, 9 april, 17th of ramadan, the noon call to prayer in tehran is at 12 minutes, the maghrib call to prayer is at 181 minutes. thanks for your cooperation with this news series. thank you goodbye. iran's honorable coach.

in the name of god, greetings, politeness, respect, service to you , dear and respected viewers , we are at your service with another debate, these days , you know, the number of trips has increased. once again, the issue is that we subsidize airplane fuel. let me bring it up or not and we want to address it in this debate. i will give you some statistics . the statistics center has announced that we spend about 35 thousand billion tomans a year.

we are subsidizing airplane fuel. of course , the critics of this statistic present a different number and have different opinions, but in general , airplane gasoline is 600 tomans per liter . they are using air travel. if you are interested in this discussion , please follow us to the bottom of the discussion above. well here in our studio, mr. bayat, the former adviser to the head of the civil aviation organization, is present , as well as mr. sahib hanar, an expert in the field of energy. while saying hello to both guests, i want to start with mr. sahib hanar and this question, which is basically the reason for your opposition to the payment of subsidies for airplane fuel. where does it come from ? in the name of allah, the most merciful, the most merciful , i offer my greetings and courtesy. to serve you and dear viewers, dear guests, and

wishing you acceptance of the theater and prayers, friends, if you allow me to start an introduction about the general discussion of energy, and dear viewers, please pay attention to the issue that we are currently dealing with. we are talking about a drop from the sea, which means about 45 million liters per day. we have airplanes in the country and we use it. compare this with the more than 1000 million liters of fuel that we burn in the country per day, which is about 800 million cubic meters, which is equivalent to 800 million a liter of liquid fuel is gas , we consume about 200 million liters of gasoline and gas per day, if the rest of the products are added , more than this is used as energy in many countries. it is special

, it is a strategic commodity, for example, look at russia , it is equivalent to the gas we are consuming. it has a lot of exports to europe and it worked for it like an atomic bomb in the ukraine war , as you have seen, and i ask you or qatar , for example, in this story of gaza , qatar should be the first accused because it is a supporter of the muslim brotherhood and friends of hamas. the first supporter is iran, not iran, but all the accusations in the media and public opinion in the world are directed towards iran . as i mentioned , we consume gas equivalent to russia's exports to europe and the equivalent of the total gas that china, with

the population of $ 1.5 billion and the population we have eaten, is consuming the whole gas that china is consuming, so we consume a strategic commodity. be it strategic or economic , we have come to turn it into a support product, and the government has used energy to cover up the weakness and inefficiencies of welfare that it has had , but who is this support to support the oppressed or the privileged? let's do statistics and we will see, for example, in the discussion of gasoline, the 10th percentile is 17.5 percent compared to the first percentile equal to the beneficiary 4% of the people of the country use air travel from gasoline subsidy in gas and electricity, 3 times in airplane fuel, and we are paying a heavy subsidy here, so our support is not a targeted and correct support, we are

supporting the well-off, not the poor. from a scientific point of view, in the discussion of economics, subsidies should be given to goods and services that have a so-called marginal social benefit or, in fact , the final social benefit is greater than the marginal private benefit. has not ok, he should spend money on education , he should spend money on dairy products , and i invite you to discuss this kind of discussion, but i think the social level is very high, the prevention of disease, the discussion of improving the quality of the workforce, in the discussion of education, these things will make the social benefits of this product more than its individual benefits. here, the government should give subsidies, because if it doesn't, the allocation of resources to these goods

will be less than the optimal amount. thank you, mr. biad. how much do you think of mr. sahib hanar, who said that we are going ahead with the current situation in the field of subsidies? now, the reality is that mr. the doctor we serve they look at the issue from their own specialized position , and their opinion is respectable for us. and of course, in some cases, they are quite right that the so-called economy in the field of energy is an important matter, but in general air transport, i always had this in various meetings, nowadays it is like water for life

because of speed because of time, the same opportunity cost as you you mentioned that a large part of this opportunity cost is being managed in the field of air transportation. the world, of course, looks at it as a driving engine . first, the government must understand that air transportation is no longer a luxury item, for example, a the thinking that they have had on this issue for a long time and maybe they only say that the so-called prosperous society uses it becomes a luxury, today you should know that almost 60-65% of the air transportation in the country has a mission, they move from the 17 million statistics. a traveler who moved in the country in 2041. our domestic flight is because of its safety , which is a high indicator. in my previous meeting , i mentioned the issue that since 1305 until now, during these 967 years, 3,000 people and less than 2,700 people

have been killed by civilian airplanes that are registered in iran. it has led to death during 97 our year, when 17 thousand people are here every year , the world is gone. to this end , to use air transport as a tool to create a capillary branch between regional development and equal development between regions . now, what is the place of energy in this development ? let's understand the importance of this subsidy. when should we reduce this subsidy? it is not a subsidy in our opinion . it is not in our opinion. it is and it is a subsidy and it is being consumed and it can be productive a capital for the country but should be spent for the common good. this is the first step of our conversation so far . in the next stage, the first part of our conversation

will be in the next parts . thank you, mr. sahib. please now, the introduction remains a bit of forgiveness, but in response to the argument that it is not a subsidy, probably friends will calculate that they consider the cost of fuel and say the government. for example, maybe the cost of each liter of airplane fuel is about 600 tomans, so he doesn't actually give a subsidy, what does imam say? we didn't come, now i said, probably, well, then you tell me why you say that it is not a subsidy, as you can see, in our opinion, of course, in our understanding, which is naturally not a professional understanding, because he is your economist and, of course, an aviation expert is also a servant, it is a subsidy for support and help. it is the government to provide product services according to the balance and power of the society, the economic

power of the society that can manage this power in a way , this means that if the total price of a product is assumed to be 1000 tomans, 500 tomans, i have an airline, i will give 500 tomans, the government has it. it helps if the government comes from me or from the airline the capacity of the country to generate income as a business perspective. we believe that this principle is not correct because it can be quickly said that it is against the principle of fairness, including the fundamental principles of human rights , which is one of the duties of the government to create conditions so that people do not suffer. well, there is a surplus, naturally, he can commercialize it. the second issue is that when we say subsidy, you say that the issue of opportunity cost was brought up, sir, this fuel has a value. we have flown about 217,000 hours in the country last year, about a million liters of

fuel . this amount is being estimated the value of this is close to 16,000 billion tomans with fob persian gulf 27,000 tomans, about 66 cents . of course, now i say tradition because it is a piece that you also said, it is true that it is from hall d as a price. the second price is being calculated from it, however, this 27,000 tomans is 16,000 billion tomans, the value of which here is that i have an airline and i will pay 360 billion tomans. can i make money from it for the benefit of the country? no, we say this will not happen because the country is not able to export at all. this and the sale of this 600. definitely not in my opinion, it is possible in this situation that its value is 27 thousand tomans in the global average value, now a value

that is in the persian gulf fab is 66 cents, approximately the rate announced by the broadcasting refining company itself. now we are giving it, for example, let's say that a watch costs 15 dollars , we are comparing it to its value, but we don't see the ability . it was found. what you say is the full cost in fact, the fuel for the plane is the same as what we have now. i paid 1000 tomans for example. i didn't say that i don't know what's going on . no one knows what's going on . it's a commercial opportunity. it is clear that what you said is that the government wants to pay and support in cash, and an implicit or implicit or hidden subsidy or opportunity cost or lack of benefit, whatever

you call it, and it means that the government, as a representative of 85 million people, can, this is actually energy resources. sell it at a higher price and spend it people do it, but they have given up on this and are giving it to a part at a lower price. this is a point. after we actually do not have any conflict or problem with the airline and tourism industry, we happen to say that our target community should be travelers who actually they are using these resources , why now a traveler who is going abroad should be given a thousand dollars, actually at the rate of the second hall, and a subsidy of this kind should be provided to the party, so do the calculations now. with this open market, maybe the party's travel expenses will be covered in this way

on this side of the plane fuel , we want to have a hidden subsidy method again. someone who is a businessman and the ceo of a company wants to travel to visit a project , and his plane ticket will cost 10 times more than that. no, somewhere else. finally, the government has obliged the other party to go on this mission from this pocket to that pocket, and if his plane ticket costs more than onor's because he has more fuel, it will go from this pocket to that pocket for the government. and it doesn't have any effect on mission office trips, so we have to i said, let's go one step higher and talk about the whole energy. now we have the point of mr. bayat's point. if you give the answer, please tell me whether you agree with them or not. one is that you give me the answer. one is that if you want, i would like to see you in the presence of the plane fuel in dollars. calculate globally, for example

, you have to look at the salary in the same way globally. one thing is to say that it is basically possible to sell this product, which means the opportunity cost that you mentioned, that if, for example, we can sell it here, guys, they also said that it will not be realized in their opinion. do you agree? no, see. first about that in our first part, i said that 4% of the society is using plane tickets and air travel , and 85% of these passengers are from the upper third, and it can be said. in fact, most of these people or a significant part of these people have an income of approximately usd , they have no problem with their income right now, and another thing is that we have to differentiate the labor market from our energy market. it

's different, we have labor force here and the government has the floor. but in fuel and energy , on the contrary, the government is suppressing and increasing the price low means that i am completely opposed to your presence , and it is not like saying that because the government actually wants to free up energy, it should free up my salary. the government is currently supporting it to be high, and because of the change of differences , we actually have a structure with me. the country is low , we have this situation thanks to your presence, that is, if we want wages to rise, an income must be created for the government, and we do not know of any source except energy in the economy of our country, which you should calculate , we have hidden subsidies of 100 billion dollars a year. see, the problem is as complicated as it shows

neither are you we are a valley between us, you are over there, a valley, and i am over here, you are hungry , i have food, or vice versa, it is a relationship that can bring you back to life. now, economic life is life for life, life for political discussions , and other things, even though we are far apart. it may be 10 meters, and the depth of this valley is extremely high , which is sanctioned, it makes it worse. there is a bridge that can establish this relationship, and this bridge is nothing but an airplane in such a situation. today's air transportation is basically induction in other industries that make them productive, for example, if we have dairy production, for example, we have so many dairy factories in the country of dairy production, if

we had an airplane and that airplane could be carried by us according to its occupancy rate , we would export and fly to target and border markets, which we used to export this product, whose quality and value depend on time, is directly related to time . we could be in the field of foreign exchange let's take action, how can we reach this goal , there is a bond in oil and energy, that now we extract a barrel of oil , we sell it for 5 dollars, 70 dollars is not in any

other industry . it is important that this is not easily created , why not export, we have this rent, we will give up this rent to support another industry, as you said , the business side wants to export, import , there will be a net income for the government, a net income for the government. does and creates for the country , it will be far less than here, we should not let's ignore this, it has nothing to do with me, i'm a carrier, sorry, i'm a carrier, i 'm a carrier as an airline company. what will i ship now? a product that is strategic for the country and can produce land . can you advise me on non-fatigue exports ? can i move businessmen who are the capital of the country? the industry of the country has about

3 thousand industrial units located there, 90% of these industrial units have their offices in tehran, on the other side, in order to visit his factory for an hour, he has to visit for an hour. if he visits his factory, he has to go here for 3 hours, visit for an hour, or have a meeting with the archivist and his officials, 3 hours later. one hour of work of the country's capital takes 8 hours, and the possibility of destroying this capital is high due to the road infrastructure we have. it's okay with opma, we also believe that the infrastructure in air transport should be developed in such a way that it has the opportunity to expand, but you have to ask, for example, why it doesn't develop, why it doesn't develop, because it's not justifiable for small businesses. the size of this business is so small, it cannot be formed in this the problem is that we ourselves believe that the support should be removed. at some point in the future

, the starting point will be released . i'm going to lower the dynamic pricing in the middle. now, in this situation, we say that sir, we will reach it when we have the possibility to improve our fleet, so that we can reduce our fuel consumption , because the price is free, this one , we can affect our quality, those resources that 25 1,30,35,000 that the government is supporting now and you said that you should support this sector , i can turn tourism into a relatively young aircraft that can increase the quality and quality of the aircraft. no, the economic power of the country's air transport in the current situation is a narrow aircraft with a full size of 56 million dollars.

we should do this when the conditions and possibilities in the international space, in the space of finance , in the space of repair of parts, and 10 other things are also discussed. let's talk about it. sir, you have 4 and you have money. why 40? don't use it, why don't we look at this, that the traveler who is in iran, shahr, zahedan, zabul, the so-called sistan, and now the distant cities. and dozens of other cities, how can this get to tehran if we have a one-dimensional dependence on the capital, only if we gave it the possibility to move around in other transportation channels, our

railways are developed, our roads are developed , it hurts. let's say 5 million, 4 million, 3 million . well, these are the issues that are against the principle of fairness that i mentioned, mr. q. in your opinion, when is the time for mr. bayat says that now is not the time . in your opinion, when is the time for this liberation? and what can the government airlines basically be? look, i said, if we have a picture or a view from above , the story of space will be clearer . let's calculate the minimum pricing, that is 230 billion per year. we have to earn dollars from this place. did we divide the number of hits into the world army? the problem is here. look, i should

have answered that, but i didn't have the time please tell me that airplane fuel can't be exported , it can be exported, it can be provided to neighboring countries , it can also be used in the petrochemical chain, or the oil before it, which wants to be converted into crude oil , should go to the petrochemical chain. it can decrease up to 8 times , it can generate added value income for the government . why do you say that we export the oil itself , we do not turn it into crude oil? you are right. 80 million of our population made a calculation, which means it is possible for every family of five, i would like to welcome you within four days. he bought a house or an apartment of 100 meters in tehran and 50 meters in tehran.

we can give him a 100-meter house every 8 years, or a 300-meter house every 8 years in the city, so why doesn't this come to the people's table? why don't we see that a donation goes to the current and construction costs of the government? it becomes a donation because of a hidden subsidy. it will not be possible at all, the 35 efforts that we have now, we will spend here on airplane fuel, assuming that the aviation industry will it is not a problem for us to take from passengers without their demand going down. this 35 efforts means 3 tehran pardis subways, which means maybe one mehr pardis housing every year. well, that's why maybe the elite class who are using this plane are also satisfied that we build 3 tehran pardis subways for the country every year or the promise of our friends is to develop the airline, but the tickets should be free and my fuel should be free. another point is that they say that a sick person needs education.

finally, he needs a necessary trip, well, these can be managed by you, whoever is sick and necessary, for example, from band abbas if he comes from zahedan to tehran, with the approval of one or two doctors , the government will subsidize him and say, "sir, you are creating a bureaucracy . mr. doctor, what is this? go get a letter, bring it, now confirm it . you can see for yourself. in general , where in the world is the solution we are proposing like this?" the world has the same experience in the united states, what is the form of direct subsidies? he has defined a program under the title of the essential program in the united states to fa, which is now the governing body of aviation, a series of places that now wants to harass the airline in order to establish a relationship, and find cash for them. i believe that if all these are removed, the friends are removed, the price is freed , the government naturally has to go in this direction in order to support a series of routes . we can make a suggestion

that this is actually a subsidy that may not go into the pocket of the airline industry, it goes into the pocket of that company , three and a half percent or four percent . statistics show that the cost of air travel in the household budget is 600%, sir, this is not good you have to increase this , we have to increase this, not to keep

it, let him build a road with it, implement a project with it, raise the cost of wages and all these things, all this means purchasing power, all this means the development of tourism and the aviation industry, you should trust the government. you don't have to say, sir, this 35 hamt will go into the government's pocket , it might go into the well, and it is not known where it will be spent . we say, sir, let's put this aside. let's arrange a mechanism so that a significant part or even all of the resources provided will come back to the industry. airline, for example, i would like the government to come to your presence and support this industry in the form of a travel card . let's tell the people, sir, you have one million tomans, two million tomans, whatever, and this subsidy to go to a certain hotel in a certain city, in kish, in qeshm, wherever you are. mashhad, use this subsidy. well, it comes

from the airline agency. in fact, you either have this quota to buy a ticket with, it goes back to the airline industry, or through leasing, leasing to buy airplanes, through repairs, to import airplane parts. ok, but we are giving up on this now because of the hypothesis that if the price goes up , we will have a decrease in demand , which i will explain in the next section. just one more question, let's go and see a report. mr. bayat said that now is not the time. in your opinion, when is the time? it's too late. i think it's very good. if we're successful, let's go. of course, it's not shocking . it's not that the price of fuel will increase from tomorrow. 27,000 tomans . the price of tickets will also go up. we need a community plan in a step-by-step manner. in fact, it's phased. let's have it, but from now on, it's important to know what will happen in 5 years.