in the name of allah, the most merciful, the most merciful. greetings and have a good time. dear viewers , we are proud to serve you with another higher program. well, as you know, after the elections of the islamic council and at the end of the working period of the 11th majlis

, there was a discussion about on the proportionality of the islamic council elections, what does proportionality mean? it means that some people believed that in cities where people vote for their own elected officials and candidates, some of the lists, for example , may win 40% of the people's votes. because of not getting the majority of votes the elect they don't have any representatives and these lists are practically deleted, and this is actually very inconsistent with electoral justice, and those 40% of the people actually do not have a representative in the parliament, so some countries have raised the issue of proportional elections in order to find a solution to this problem. from the point of view that if, for example, a list has 40% of the voters' votes for itself. from the representatives of that list

, in fact, the supporters or candidates of that political trend, to send to the parliament, well, this issue has supporters and opponents in our country, some of them raise problems and disadvantages for this issue. some supporters believe that the only solution for electoral justice in the parliament is proportionality of elections. today we will discuss this issue with the presence of two experts . please follow us. well, you are very welcome . first of all, i will introduce the guests of the higher program to you, mr. mohammad sadiq jokar , a member of the parliament and elected by the people. we are at your service as agree proportionally. the elections will be held and in the studio

, mr. mehdi arab sadeghi, an expert on political issues, the former political deputy of the matlafa party and an opponent of the proportionality of the elections, if you allow us to go to yazd studio and let's start today's debate with mr. jokar, mr. jokar, well, the leader of the revolution put forward four characteristics and characteristics for elections. in your opinion, if the elections are proportional, how effective will these four indicators actually be? yes, in the name of allah , the most gracious, the most gracious .

i wish for the new year and i also wish to accept the prayers and worship of all our believers and dear people in this blessed month . your opinion is a very good discussion that we four the main strategy we had for the last election was a health security strategy. and the competition strategy and finally the strategy of participation, which i believe the first three strategies should be in the service of the final strategy, i.e. the strategy of participation, see the issue that was raised , not that i want to agree or disagree with this plan , but based on general policies.

the elections that the supreme leader called for, the first paragraph of these policies is about electoral justice. currently , in our country, the model of our electoral system is based on the majority system, that is, in a constituency , whether it has one seat or 30 seats, those who have 20 the percentage of at least 20% of the votes and those people who get the highest votes and get them as elected. people enter the parliament, well, this is very good in constituencies with one seat and two seats, but in constituencies with three seats and above, electoral justice may not be observed

, because in these constituencies, electoral lists are often given by members of groups and political currents. with tehran of course, in the amendment of the election law, which was approved last year, we had predicted the implementation of the electoral system model in tehran on a trial basis. let's say that the parties, groups , political currents that give several lists in the elections based on the weight of the lists that attract people's votes in the elections and the luck of the people to bring the number of seats in the parliament to them. the weight or the ratio of the votes of one first to

the total votes of the candidates and firsts should be determined and the number of elected members in the parliament should also be determined. i have an example. let me tell you here, for example, if we have four lists in one election, three lists will allocate 20% of the votes to themselves, and one first will allocate 40% of the votes to itself. give that list of 40% of all the seats in the parliament . this is the majority system today , mr. jokare. mr. doctor, let us hear my voice until this point in the discussion, mr. doctor. there is no representative in the parliament, mr. doctor . dear mr. arab tade

, what is your opinion if it is actually proportional , is it closer to electoral justice or not? dear mr. jokar, the elected member of the islamic council, i need to congratulate you on the new year, while wishing all the dear people of our country to accept the theater and prayers. in these days, regarding the discussion of proportional elections, the reality is that i think that it is a bit hasty. of course, proportional elections have advantages and merits. i will present to you some of the merits of proportional elections that you agree with and the designers of this plan, and after that we will go to its

disadvantages. those who can create those who agree to talk about the fair distribution of votes in this election , they are talking about honest voting in the sense that every vote will be lost. mr. jokar pointed out, for example , if a list is now named, if a list gets 20% of the votes, it will be removed from the phrase. they use thirty zeros, which i do not agree with this expression 30. zero in the recent elections, the same issue, 30 zero, mr. jokar, and in the event, the dear listeners have witnessed that it was removed and did not take place . in fact, they raise the issue of political party system

, they raise the devaluing of geographical boundaries , they raise the program-oriented nature of moderation and satisfaction. raise the public. some of the benefits that the proponents of this plan put forward are really true, but the format of these is contrary. see, if we are talking about proportional elections, we must take into account the country's political ecosystem, that is , the conditions and the political scene of our country, which is shaped by parties, often and sometimes by zinfooz individuals. mr. jokar , we have 127 parties in the country today. we have that a large number of these parties

do not have a party function, and unfortunately, all of our parties also do not the party's function is to keep a distance, so if we are talking about amending the election law , we really owe it to the election debate on the issue of legislation and law reform, but let's not forget. that reforming the election law with a party-centered or list-centered approach requires reforming the party law . well, mr. arab sadh, i want to ask now , because whenever we talk about the proportionality of elections , the question at all is the way of governance and these things. we are sure that the parties have not been formed and the basic infrastructure should be established first. our parties have actually

been formed , if the parties that you want in the north are formed, do you still have objections to the proportionality of the elections? a local and political section in our own country and a section. we will also talk about the political function that creates political equations in general in the country and in the countries in general. i want to say that for the reasons that i will say later. we will suffer proportional elections. it is concluded that some of european countries in fact the beginning of yes. starting in the 19th century, like belgium and switzerland

, they reached a dead end, that is, for example , in the time periods of 1950 to 2000, if you compare, in one case and in one case, we actually see that the results of these are 8 or 9 out of 14 cases. it gave the opposite result and made people unable to choose the principle. my colleagues prepared a report in this regard. we will see this report. we will return . we are at your service. we are hossein kanani moghadam, secretary of the standing front. the necessary infrastructure for the implementation of this plan is not ready. and if, for example , we see holding such elections in turkey, it is because. there is a party system in this country. sohail malkarai, member of the central council of the house

of parties: the proportionality plan for elections is an initial and useful step towards providing a suitable platform for the formation of an efficient and expert parliament. this plan will lead to the opening of space for the entry of lesser known but competent and capable forces and will cause the circulation of elites in favor of younger forces. this plan gives new life to the parties. and the existing political organizations will give, and this window of hope can motivate participation at the level of the society's elites in the first step make it bolder. mojtaba shakri, secretary general of the islamic revolution veterans association. currently, our society is not at a stage where proportional elections can be held and have results. we are not in a situation where two or more parties compete for seats like in some countries. in fact , our political parties and currents and fronts today are not at the level to advance such a system.

proportionality of elections, instead of increasing participation, will reduce the participation rate by making the process look strange. mojtaba raisei is a political seeker. proportional elections for this is to ensure that no one is excluded and that each stream takes seats according to its social weight. due to the majority system, political currents seek to eliminate each other . at the same time, in this way, a high level of electoral tension appears and everyone tries to excite the social body to get votes. the proportional method is also possible. it depends on the policy maker which election he prefers according to the political and social conditions of the country , but it must be said that the first result is the proportional system of electoral justice. mehdi arab sadegh, head of the studies and research committee of the house of parties. parties in our country lacks standards of attrition, and on

the other hand, the way to enter the lists is not clear, and instead of index-oriented and process-oriented. most of them are gang-oriented and relationship-oriented, so the proportionality of elections with these conditions will harm the independent candidates and the people, and this means reducing the dependence of elected officials on the direct votes of the people, and it is even against meritorious selection, contrary to the idea that proportional elections are the basis for strengthening the parties know or read that in such a situation where we do not have strong parties in the country and the electoral lists are closed with patronage and nepotism, the proportional elections of the gangs strengthen and remove the parties from the circuit. mohammad saleh jokar, member of parliament. during the review of the plan to amend articles of the parliament elections law, some representatives suggested that tehran parliament elections be held proportionally. proportionalization of the parliamentary elections makes all spectrums have seats in the tehran constituency.

of course, people who run as individual candidates will enter the parliament if they are among the first 30 people. proportional elections can be implemented in constituencies where the competition is for more than two seats. well, we saw the report. let's go to yazd studio and serve mr. jokar. mr. jokar, in the same report, in the last speech that you actually said , it was discussed that maybe. currently, the infrastructure for proportional elections in our country is not available because many of the electoral systems have one representative or at least two representatives, and in fact, now the opponents of proportional elections believe that this plan can only be implemented in cities that have more than 5 representatives or candidates. there is, and for this reason, in the plan

that was proposed in the yazd parliament, it was discussed that it should be implemented only for tehran. i wanted to ask you that if this proportionality of elections is what is the background and in fact, now it needs infrastructure so that its implementation does not face any problems, i would like to ask you to see , mr. shayan, at all, the issue of amending the election law, which was put on the agenda of the parliament , based on the general policies announced by his highness we tried to carry out reforms within that framework on the issue of electoral justice and how to establish this justice. we came to the conclusion that all the votes cast by the people should be seen and read, and they should have a share in the parliament, we cannot. let's say a section, for example, 40

we should ignore the will of our society who came to the polls today to vote. let's say you won't have a representative in the parliament and the total reaches 60%. well , it's almost unfair that what we are witnessing is that you look at the past in european countries after the second world war, from a majority system to a proportional system. the proportional form of your service is pure or they are doing it in a combined way now and they are also observing electoral justice. all their elections are not based on parties. they say that the infrastructure in our country is ready no, we don't need infrastructure under this frame. see how many lists we had in tehran this year?

we had several electoral lists in tehran. well, we say that these are the first ones who participate according to weight. if they themselves are elected in the parliament, it means that they will call the parliament seats for themselves, not for us to say that those who get the highest votes and get the majority of votes, only they will find their way to the parliament and the rest will stay in the back of the parliament. this is exactly unfair to nothing. i need the infrastructure for the formation of torture and for us to have torture . and these parties are decision makers or gangs none of these exist, we are in the current situation in the constituencies of tehran

. constituencies with one seat and two seats do not need to be proportional in them , but in a systematic way. well, mr. jokar , if this happens, it will not be resolved, that is , our electoral system will not be two-fold, their votes will be counted, they will be influential in the political destiny of the country , they will have candidates and representatives in the islamic council. and that the political parties themselves can be restructured in the shadow of this. the ability to do it, and by the way, it is in the shadow of this model that the parties can reach their social base. currently, we may

have many members of groups and political organizations, but the social weight and these are not clear, sir, during my election, i voiced my voice , it is not clear anywhere, but during the era. dear mr. jokar, you said that actually the election. from the constituencies that have more than three representatives and three seats, it should be held proportionally .

it doesn't affect our electoral system and it doesn't cause problems . i don't think this part is smooth. look at our one-seat or two-seat constituencies like the list. we don't present it there, that is, a list is not presented by the parties, you may see different people, one person is being approved by one party, another person is being approved by another party or other political movements, there we no longer have a proportional system, that is, we have the number of seats. we are limited if we want to get, for example, the ratio of votes. the votes of one first are proportional to the total votes of my candidates from individuals or those who are listed in the list

the impact on the number of seats, because the number of seats in the electoral situation of leaving the seat is one , will not have any effect on the weight of the lists, but therefore , we do not prescribe this military model in the constituencies of single and two seats , thank you very much, thank you very much. dear mr. joka , mr. arab sadiq, mr. joka made a reference in his speech that many countries said that after the second world war, in fact , they went towards the proportionality of elections, you said in your speech that some of them reached a dead end and they are changing the method , answer both your discussion and your discussion, sir mr. jokar karde means the same question i had from mr. jokar, i want to ask you whether the proportionality of the elections with the current conditions and the current infrastructure of our country does not double our electoral system and whether with the alignment of the elections

there is an opportunity for independents to enter which are not in the lists, will it be provided in the elections? yes, look, i am the first to thank mr. jokar, but i am really surprised . unfortunately, our country has suffered from these attempts and errors. i have seen a lot , mr. jokar, i would like to point out a few things , if you allow me, before i go to my appeal let me analyze my analysis on this issue and refer to his statements. first of all, mr. jokar, you are prohibited from saying that i mentioned the introduction of amending the election law, amending the party law, and if we go the other way, it is like saying that i apologize for having strong parties, this term and sheep let's turn it upside down and there will be no sound and it will be the same 30 mistakes that we are always paying for, it is forbidden that

there are no strong parties in the country today. they have and in the gang, or in the phrase that some people use now , patriarchy is formed in the existential dispossession of parties, mr. jokar. i can't now, wherever they need to know, they can enter the lister , whether in the tehran elections, in this period or in the previous periods, i will mention this period, which, in any case, dear people are aware of this issue, there are really many of this list. the ones that existed , were the parties leading or were the individuals leading, and naturally , when we enter the field of individuals, the role of the people fades, while our parties are also made by the people and are not what the people wanted, so we have to examine this in its own right. you mentioned the four strategies that the supreme leader last year in relation to i said by pointing to the election.

due to the constant delay of the parliament and the government in the recent periods , considering that the current parliament and government always use this term as a general term, not necessarily the 11th, 10th or 9th parliament, always the mosque , in fact, the current parliament and government prevent the amendment of the election law. they were, but i am surprised that we should come in a hurry without mr. jokar saying that infrastructure is not important. i think that the infrastructure does not want , by the way, the human infrastructure and political culture wants us to come and put a proportional law, and now, in fact, is it individual, group and criminal benefit? let this be in the middle and fill in the political clans that did not have a people-oriented function . by the way, dear mr. jokar, this is contrary to your order that you say that all votes should be seen

. the strategies that the supreme leader said are prohibited in terms of security, health, competition and participation , the electoral policies that were announced in september 2015 , the supervisory board of the council for expediency of the system took issue with this three paragraphs and declared a contradiction that the parliament did not resolve this paragraph one. it brings up the geographical issue. you can't go with the geographical areas that we have now close the elections, this actually causes geographic borders to fade and create geographic deprivation . there are parts that will not be seen . people's votes and people's opinions. after all , we have a political disagreement, but with paragraph 10 of general election policies, paragraph 10 is actually the opposite.

the discussion of the population brings up the requirements of the population, and according to the announcement of the supervisory board, this is in fact in contradiction with this clause . at the same time , there are other contradictions with the constitution, which are wide i would like to, but article 15 is clear about the people and the right of free choice, but we are assigning in proportional elections, mr. shayanmehr, what are we assigning to the lists, now mr. jokar

is the representative of yazd, anyway than. right now , let's take a walk in the city of tehran , ask the people of tehran, even political informants, and tell them how many members of the list do you know. out of these 30 people, do you know your representative , believe me, the average will be under five people . the members of these lists do not know each other. people don't know these things at all, so with what permission should we assign this right of people's election to the factions that are seasonal and my last question is now in this section, so that it won't be long, mr. jokar , i will repeat it in tehran or in the whole country finally the 98th election or, to avoid any crime, our topic is the 9th election.