an economic researcher and opponent of the formation of the ministry of commerce are also present, as well as mr. hassan khani, another economic expert of the program, as a supporter of the formation of the ministry of home affairs. i would like to tell you that there is a fundamental debate regarding the mission of the agricultural sector. in the past, the agricultural sector in all parts of the world was usually viewed as being responsible for the production of raw agricultural products, then it is the responsibility. in fact

, it is delivered to other economic sectors, but for several decades, both in the world and in our policy-making space, it has been said that our agricultural sector is responsible for providing food, both in terms of raw material production and marketing. even if there is an import issue and if there is an export issue that regulates the production market , all of this should happen in one group and with one view . they know that they are responsible for producing, for example, a raw product, such as tomatoes , but now it is said that the same farmer at the farm, whether in his own production unit or in his own organization, should go to the direction of processing this product and then sell it if it is sold raw. if he wants to do it , he will make the most effort in the economy and the least profit it goes and in fact it reaches the rest of the chain and so on . the same is relevant at the level of policy-making, that is , if we

know that the ministry of home affairs is only in charge of the policy for the production of raw agricultural products, we want the rest of the chain to be provided before production, for example, the supply of inputs. be it animal feed , be it seed supply, be it fertilizer and age, especially that part that is related to import. in our country, we know that a large part of all these institutions is import, and similarly, after the production process, which is discussed in detail, marketing and various types, in fact, there are stages. . which exists in this chain, if the policy is divided into two parts it is very difficult to imagine that these policies can be in line with each other and ultimately support the national production. we seek to improve the production of honey in the field of food and agriculture. we know that in the events that have happened at the international level in the past years, from the discussion of corona and the war in ukraine to the unrest that exists all over the world, the discussion of self-sufficiency in food. it has become bold for all parts of the world

, even the countries that say that we are moving towards global markets and based on our relative position. at least in the field of food, they have to retreat a bit, and we can clearly see this policy in europe, moving towards having their own food chain , so in addition to providing our food , it means that this is a value of providing food, two at a reasonable price , three where it may be domestic production, it means that we do not have dependence in our chain. four, of course , these one and two mornings that i say do not necessarily have precedence and delay, in terms of priorities, all these values ​​must be seen together, and the four are climate and water limitations, we must have all of these together. we must have food in food production, we should consider our water limitations in different regions of the country, the right price should be available for the consumer, and the income of the producer, who is a farmer, should be sufficient to make a living, manage his life, and be motivated to work in this job. stay young

, stay in this job, don't immigrate to the city, and all of this requires a uniform policy in the supply chain, and there is a concern that if the groups in charge of policymaking in this area are divided, this problem will arise and we we cannot collect all these goals together and all this we have reached our goals, unfortunately, in the past years, now if we look at the horizon a bit higher , basically, the issue of separating the agricultural business sector and the agricultural production sector, well, it actually has a history, that is, if we want, the structural changes in the ministry of agriculture or jihad let's observe that agriculture has existed in all these years. in 1379, we had the integration of construction jihad and agriculture . in 1990, we created the ministry of agriculture. actually,

excuse me, the law of concentration, yes, the law is now known as the law of order. what do you mean by the law of concentration? they say that all the tasks that are related to different sectors of agriculture have been done in the last decade . i just want to make an invitation to all the viewers of channel 1 who have been with us until this moment . thank you for following the news. well, you are with the higher program, mr. soudagar , your time is almost running out, if you can summarize in 30 seconds, we will go to mr. asenkhani , thank you. we did it in 1400 and applied it again

401 402 we have discussed this, the bill to separate the ministry of commerce has been brought up again and we have the impression that any structural change in the ministry is like an explosion in the ministry and it will be difficult for the ministry of home affairs to organize itself so easily. in addition , there have been many management changes in the past 10 years in this ministry of home affairs, we had 6 ministers and actually supervisors, and this is too much. thank you , mr. hassan khani. may allah be merciful to me. hello too i am at your service, dear viewers. dear, i would like to congratulate you on eid-ul-fitr in advance and i wish you the acceptance of the theater . before we start the discussion, i would like to reiterate that the debate may not be very relevant, but it is important, but we will try to respond to your wishes. but before we debate

, i will read a few propositions with each other . if we had a debate, first of all, the separation and claims of the ministries in the government. basically , it does not significantly reduce or increase the size of the government. if you have a dispute, discuss it with each other it means that a government in a country may have 50 home ministries, then according to the discretion of the reformer, it can increase these 50 to 30 to 40. basically , the size of the government should not change in terms of costs, in terms of manpower, in terms of buildings and physical facilities . the experience of recent years, at least since the 90s, when the ministry of industry , mining, and trade was separated and the ministry of home affairs was formed , does not show us anything that the ministry of housing since mr. ahmadinejad's 23rd

4 in fact, they were divided into 19 ministries. i don't think that the size of the government that year it should be reduced so that it becomes a fact for this issue. for this topic, i did not find it. this is a proposition. the second proposition is that commerce is a specialized subject, which means exactly like agriculture, which you say, is a specialized subject, and the one who is an expert in the field of industry and works , cannot understand the relations of the agricultural field well . make policy and we have to rely on the discussion of agricultural jihad. i think that commerce is also a good field. in general, witness the performance of jtc and your domain affairs support company during these recent years. now, if you want. we can give an example of their inefficiency. one of the examples is the summer of 1400, the incidents and

disagreements between the ministry of agricultural jihad and specifically between the state trading company and the program organization. actually , i do not want to deal with those incidents. you see, commerce is a completely specialized issue, and my opinion is that entrusting commerce to a domestic ministry, such as the ministry of industry, or the ministry of agricultural jihad, will waste commerce , especially in the context of sanctions. the ministry of commerce should be separated from the ministry, he may be part of the supervisor of the ministry of agricultural jihad. you have a ministry that, according to the former minister of this ministry, 25% of the country is directly related to this ministry of home affairs, that is, you should put 18 home ministries on one side, 75% of the ministry of home affairs, put your side on the same side with 25% related

to related matters. with it and basically the ministry of home affairs is unmanageable with this size, with this size of the space it has and the responsibility placed on it, with this style and style , in my opinion, i am unmanageable mr. sodagari. being a big business ministry of position. now answer these so that we can get to the points that you said, let me ask mr. hassan khani in the field of agriculture. i would like to tell you that his statement regarding the specialization of the business is completely correct , but the question is that when we want to design the structure of the ministry of housing. with what logic do we design the structure? the issue of specialization, the issue of the size of a ministry, the issue of abstraction or separation and integration in the fact that it is big or small. the ministry of home affairs, well, the specialized discussions of public administration , which

are actually discussed in the public administration of public administration, but the issue is that the basis what, for example, if the specialization of that work is the basis , then in the ministry of agricultural jihad, we also have different departments that are really specialized, that is, for example , the specialization that is necessary for the field of agriculture and the specialization that is necessary for the field of dairying are very different from each other, and each one is really specialized. but it doesn't necessarily mean that, for example, the vice president of agriculture should become a ministry of his own , the vice president of livestock should become a ministry of the home. i told you that we are a group of products that are the same family we consider the whole chain of policy making in one ministry . among the field of natural resources, these are groups of goods and products

, they are related to food, some of them are also industrial, but their production methods are close to all, so these can be considered as one group. he established this separation . i also emphasize there that if it is the view of the chain, then we can go in the view of the chain in the direction of the groups that are the same family , for example, let's sit down and see what is happening in the field of the ministry of the same family, for example, maybe the area of, for example, the car and its accessories is one area, and other areas are other areas, but if we separate each one, it becomes the whole chain. let's do it ourselves, and this does not negate the fact that the production sector is specialized in the commercial sector, because i told you that when we want to produce goods that are affordable for the consumer and profitable for the producer , climate issues and water shortages and considering issues like this, policy making should be very coherent ok. right now, in the field of agricultural jihad , water is in the hands of the ministry of energy

. agriculture is related, it should wait from the ministry of energy and it will come to the hands of the ministry of jihad , agriculture, with that logic, in fact, the chain is in that product group, mr. doctor, i have a few questions . do spend a chain of seeing issues and tasks and government duties it solves the problem, not in any way, so this condition is not sufficient, it is not a sufficient condition, i am stating a sufficient condition, two second questions, does not seeing the chain of the problem necessarily ruin the work of the government, in the sense that we are in general policies. if i'm not mistaken, i don't remember the year, but

i doubt that there is a week. its content is the coordination and stability of monetary policies , transverse financial and commercial policies . and the connection between the field of the position and the central bank is the field of the ministry of position. he is placing the order in the system of trade society , who is doing the allocation and provision of the width, the central bank, with this argument of yours, if i give the provision of width and the allocation of width to the ministry, i will see a chain, then the problems will be solved, and if i don't, then it is a mistake. i did, and the problem arises. my question is , is the visible chain a sufficient condition, as you say , no, now i say that if we don't see a chain, something special will definitely happen. with this reference , i am telling you that the field of land provision and allocation is separate from the field of order registration, so

nothing special has happened in this field. if we do this, it will be better , it will be more efficient, i say, i don't like the current situation, that i will take the provision of land from the central bank from the shoulders of the central bank. because i want to see a chain, i want to give to the ministry of hearing , can you defend these two questions that i asked , with the argument that we will see a chain , while i reiterate that there is no discussion on any problem on the chain, no problem there is no technical way to see the chain of topics. yes, that is a sufficient condition let me tell you independently that if we want to see the whole chain in one place, how is the relationship between policy making and implementation ? he should also do the business himself , but he does the whole job, well, this

is the state trading company, khokhal company . this is where the problem is, that is , we don't get answers. a chain related to a group. we will give some of the goods to a ministry you mentioned the example of the issue of width, but the issue is that we want to increase the number of these issues. it is logical that if we want, for example, to discuss the provision and allocation of agricultural width , we should give the ministry of home affairs and the industry to each hand. the industry is related to itself. well , we are really

going to have a problem in the field of foreign exchange this time, but the issue is that if we separate this , then we will hand over water to the ministry of energy, then we will hand over commerce to the ministry. how can we expect the ministry of jihad agriculture to do that? provide food? we have all the tools in the chain we took away the need for policymaking and there is no mechanism for a split. of course, the function of the supreme councils in our government structure is that the home ministries that have related work in the chain sit side by side with the presidency and actually create this division, but in practice we have seen that it can be done. he agreed with them, that is, in fact, if we want to work in all these areas , it is not possible to form a supreme council for each of them, so i say that if possible, the chain should be in a ministry of home affairs, except for those cases due to it will be separated for a special reason. now we have separated the supply for a special reason. for a special reason, we have also separated the water, which i say is not a very special reason. it can be returned . that is why, yes, we will separate the commerce of rome

. nothing will be left in the hands of the minister of agriculture. yes, you see, of course i my point is not that now we must go to the ministry of jihad. in fact, let's consider the authority of commerce . this is not my position at all for the formation of the ministry of commerce. now, since you have a lot of expertise and knowledge in the field of agriculture, maybe it will be taken that way. big the size of the ministry is limited and the unmanageability of this ministry is due to the different companies, different vice-chancellors, and different responsibilities. the differences in this ministry of home affairs have caused that every minister, even the highest, i.e., the most powerful , in fact, the executive ministers of the government, as well as the executive members of the government , should be placed at the head of this ministry. this ministry of home affairs is so large that it is difficult to manage it. 25% of the gd of the country is directly related to this ministry of home affairs and its affairs are arranged

or supervised by this ministry of home affairs . he wants to be responsible for everything. i mainly emphasize the establishment of the ministry of commerce from this point of view , but at the same time, since the issue of agriculture is also discussed, there is this doubt for me that when the law on the concentration of duties is due to the year of esfand or now the announcement of esfand 91 it was bahman tower and it was notified in march. there is a third article. this article 3 actually says that the ministry of jihad is obliged to act in the import of each of the goods in clause a to meet domestic needs and regulate the market in such a way that at least 10% of our self-sufficiency is achieved annually. he should be promoted in this area, i think it's almost 12 now this year, with the ups and downs that you said , it was banned for a year, it was frozen again, it was implemented , it became operational. my question

is, what was the performance of article 3 for the ministry of jihad? we are now self-sufficient in which of these goods, what are we talking about now? let's talk about the law of centralization of space, when we discuss the operation of article 3 of this law, how can we defend it, let's talk about it . again, just before you answer this, i would like to ask you a question. it's an agricultural issue, see, i think, i think more than the issue of industry and agriculture, it is the issue of government management, the issue of organizing and organizing affairs, i say from the point of view of its effectiveness, because many experts like mr. sodagar bakhsh. i am right that agriculture is much more important. yes , i know that agriculture is more important than industry. in this case, agriculture is more important than industry. i am discussing the effect of this separation on agriculture.

my opinion is that friends are saying that this discussion of the concentration law should remain because we no longer have this concentration law. we can't work in the field of trade, we can't work in the field of agriculture my response will disappear. you agree with this post . i don't see this post as strong and solid. why do you see, when the ministry of jihad and agriculture is in charge of an issue called judicial security, it can be done by coordinating, in fact, by creating coordination, not by consulting, but by discussing. i completely agree with you. no issue in this country can be solved by becoming a council. we all know this. wherever we want to leave an issue unresolved, we say

go to the council. should powers trading products if agriculture is in my hands, at least in practice , it is not defensible for me, because now in the years when the concentration law was implemented and it was in your hands, it is in the hands of the ministry. the people of baniyan, we have production units

, which are usually small family units depending on our economic, climatic and social conditions. the direction that these can be in the same dimensions of the family. get a little bigger. but this increase never means that all the chains can be in one unit complete their production. so these must be combined. in a village, all the farmers who work in the same guild have their own production, they organize themselves, and in their organization they complete the chain, that is, those parts of the chain that they could not do alone in that small unit, no matter what. whatever happens next in the chain , say this in that organization and do this. at the unit level of the production unit and at the farm level, now come this time at the policy making level, if these organizations are at the level of the village, village, district, city, province, and in

fact, there are nationwide unions at the national level. and these should really be formed from the bottom up , not the current formations that we can say have been built from the 40s in a top-down manner and ordered by the government, not in such a way that it is really formed from the bottom, how can an organization be formed? form from below. it is a detailed discussion, we can talk about it, there is a version about it, there is an idea about it , and we had successful experiences in different parts of the country, so now if we reach that national union that is really formed from the bottom up , it can regulate the market. give, this can provide the inputs provide the inputs of animal feed, the inputs of agriculture, seeds, fertilizer, and provide these, it can regulate the fruit on the night of eid, it can regulate the price of chicken in the holy month, and all the things that we now directly expect from the government, this is what everyone says to him. they believe that at least everyone says it is good that it should happen like this, but we had less mechanism for it. the issue is that we

need a set of policies and laws to be able to achieve this. it is one of the tools of entrusting work to organizations as you said, the discussion of the law is actually your focus. we have another law, the law on increasing the utilization of the agricultural and natural resources sector, illustrated in its sixth article of 2009, which clearly states that the two duties of the government are the duties of its administration regarding the executive actions of purchases. a guarantee of preparation and explanation of all production inputs, executive actions of purchase, storage, explanation and summary of a series of other things to be left to organizations . from 89 to now it is suspended and pending, this forgiveness and many other parts of this increase law

, we can talk about it, but clearly about the point. that mr. hassan khani mentioned and the question that until now, for example, for several years , when the law of centralization has been in place, all these powers have been in the hands of the ministry of jihad and agriculture, and as you say , they have been concentrated in one place. it doesn't matter what is going to happen and where is the problem of its production. our opinion is that we had to follow a certain path in order to reach the governance mechanism of the grassroots people. down with a popular production structure , we went through a series of steps in one. in the past 15 years, now if the ministry of commerce is formed and separates these agricultural commercial sectors , a very large part of what we have achieved so far in order to reach that destination will be lost, that is, i agree that the situation now, in that sense, it cannot be defended at all, and in fact, the functional container that exists in the existing structure

makes it difficult for us to defend the idea. let's go to the organizations, but the issue is that if the ministry of commerce is formed and the important arms of the ministry of agricultural jihad in commercial discussions are taken away from it, i am not looking for the arms to say that they will again express their entrepreneurship, support companies and participate in government commercial events. the rural cooperative organization and others should regulate the market themselves, not necessarily it should be entrusted to organizations, but policy making if necessary. okay, in fact , we are half way back, which means we lose the hope that we will be able to reach that destination, thank you very much. let's go and see a report together. mohammad allah has prepared a report and reviewed the opinions of the other opponents and supporters of the issue we are debating. let's see it together. let's go back and continue the debate

, god willing. it shows that the merger of these two ministries was a hasty action and the revival of the ministry of commerce can solve some of the current problems. mr. qasim nodeh farahani, a member of the board of directors of tehran chamber of guilds, currently the two ministries of industry, mining and trade and the ministry of jihad agriculture have heavy responsibilities and sometimes they have overlaps, but if the ministry of commerce is formed, it can solve the overlaps of market regulation... between these two ministries. mr. alireza kolahi, chairman of industry commission of iran chamber of commerce. the merger of the two ministries of commerce and industry and mining has not been done with the support of a precise and correct planning and in a sense these two ministries have been stitched together. mr. morteza zamaniyan, economic expert of the ministry of commerce, if it is established, it will lead to an increase in imports and will

put pressure on the market. an issue that causes damage to the production sector . mr. ahmadreza farshian, member of chamber of commerce iran. this separation is not in the interest of producers, because by separating business from industry, the activities that are carried out in the field of business will not serve the industry. mr. barat ghobadian, the former deputy of education and research of the ministry of education, the separation of the ministry of commerce from the industry is not compatible with the logic of the development of foreign exports. and we should not repeat the previous mistake by separating these two areas from each other. well , we saw the report together, mr. hassan khani , give your opinion about the report, and the point that mr. soudagar mentioned about that if we do this , we would have to go back half way. i first i would like to approve the general employment policies that i mentioned on the seventh day of 1390, july 1390.

allow me to repeat one point here. it came, that is, on what basis, on what evidence, for example, if we actually have an oil ministry now, it is correct. if a gas ministry is established in the country, for example, it will lead to an increase in imports will gas occur or will it lead to a change in the export and import of gas? if it occurs, you must tell me with which evidence to see. we have import and export statistics in our country and we are monitoring them. in different years, wheat may be 3 times the previous year. if it is imported, nothing should be imported in the following year.