yes, we don't have time, i will say goodbye to you dear ones. but today is tuesday, april 28, 7 shawwal and april 16. in tehran, sunrise will be at 189 minutes, maghrib call to prayer will be at 18.57 minutes, and sharia midnight will be at 23:20 minutes. well, thank you. with your company, dear and respected compatriots , we will go to the studio of the higher program and join mr. bozorg, the installation of mr. bozgernasab is with you. in the name of god, thank you, ms. mirsaneh . i offer my greetings, courtesy and respect to each and every one of the dear and respected viewers of the higher program with a we are at your service for another debate on the topic of gasoline let's assign melia, or i invite you with the same topic that i have presented to you. if you are interested , follow this discussion until the end . please watch us on the news network

. please, thank you. the candidates for the islamic shura majlis elections are also talking about this issue. they have been asked questions. obviously, there is a statement that is almost a statistic. from the center of majlis researches, citing the centrality of using information from the iranian welfare database , that half of the country's families have cars. they don't have, they don't use subsidies. the issue that is mentioned is that the way we are allocating fuel subsidies is for those who have cars and those who do not have cars do not use this subsidy. we want to talk about what formula and method if it is implemented. it is more encouraging and more people can

benefit from this existing subsidy . before we start our discussion with the guests of the program, i will introduce them to you, but then before that, we will see a report. mr. tamdan is here as an energy expert. mr. nawaz, who is opposed to allocating gasoline to the national code, and mr. nawaz, who is in favor of allocating the gasoline subsidy to the national code, are present here . before we start the debate, i invite us to go see a report together and come back and start our conversation. ali maliki, an expert on economic issues , should be formed by allocating gasoline to each national market code in the country, where the price of gasoline is determined regardless of global prices. currently , due to the mandated stabilization of the price and restrictions in the distribution of gasoline, an informal market has been formed, and if a person buys more gasoline than if you need a quota of 1500 tomans or 3 thousand tomans , you should buy gasoline more expensive than the rate.

reza gholami, an expert on economic issues , if we make people participate in an issue, not only will they not resist the price increase , but they will also support it. the plan to assign gasoline quota to people instead of cars is a demagogic plan with the slogan of justice, which has a glimpse of people's monetary illusion, i.e. higher monetary income in the short term. mr. narsi, an expert on economic issues, those who do not have a car do not receive any subsidy at all . this subsidy, in addition to cars, should individuals should be paid so that they can provide for government issues such as paying for water and electricity. as a result, this money does not leave the government system and is not inflationary. fuel smuggling does not increase with this plan because the person without a car sells his quota to the person who has a car. reza pedemar , member of the energy commission of the chamber of commerce. planning issues such as the allocation of gasoline to the national code is more about propaganda and elections than operationalization. it

is important that a basket consisting of all energy carriers is determined for people and that everyone takes from their basket according to their needs. with this work, society it goes towards optimizing energy consumption. yes, we saw the report together and reviewed the opinions of experts for and against the issue that i presented to you . allow me to start with mr. tamandan and this question, mr. tamandan, is the reason why you oppose the gasoline subsidy to the national code. see , let me go back a step to where this plan for gasoline to each national code came from, and what kind of problem is this going to cause us and what is the situation we are in now? we talk and... that the continuation of the current process is not possible

we are applicable for the government. i'm just talking about the fact that we are suffering from a shortage of gasoline. we are energy, that is, if the same cars that use gasoline use gas , gas is the problem for all discussions, apart from those environmental discussions , and this discussion is only about consumption, i am pregnant. we have a problem , there are many reasons for this, it was discussed that it should be assigned to each national code.

specifically, let me talk about justice. a fair explanation is definitely one of the things that we are all looking for , a fair explanation that is done, but let me. first, let's see if fair means equality or not . we don't say fair. we want to explain . we say we want to distribute gasoline to everyone. i didn't see that he took equality to mean justice, now i'll explain to you, yes, it's true , gasoline is for the car to move, that's why

we shouldn't take gasoline out of use for those special conditions, just like those who have a car have a car. they are consuming gasoline, the government as a father of the family as someone who is responsible for the distribution of the country's resources among the people, says , "sir, if you have a car, i will come and provide you with gasoline, of course, you should note that this is based on the money that he wants to distribute , now there is a problem, just as you forgive me, the issue here is that someone who is low, for example he has health insurance. he is giving him education, he is paying for his education , i mean, i want to say that it is not like this, that he only gave gasoline to some people, he is in another place, the relief committee is thinking about things, mr. nawaz, what is your opinion . this is what you have to code

in the name of allah, the most merciful, the most merciful. greetings, dear guests and viewers who are watching us at this time , i would like to inform you that our agreement is subject to conditions. and if you allow me to give a brief explanation of the history of why we had a fuel subsidy and what we are in now, let's get to that stage, from 15 to 16 years ago, from 85 to 86, in fact, it started. it was a matter that rationing for fuel and especially gasoline should happen in the country at the same time because it is a big change. considered we could have seen a lot of opposition, mainly from different institutions and even at the level of our people, and it is always the case that reforming and changing methods are met with resistance, but this happened, and

many of the equipment and infrastructures that were in use at that time very powerfully, the government provided the companies under the ministry of oil to help and we overcame many crises. and over time , manta faced many challenges that we could not actually implement the general goals, especially in the law on the targeting of subsidies. we don't have it in the issue of fuel, that is, from the process of production to transportation, distribution and consumption, most of them are dissatisfied, whether they are activists in the private sector or the public sector, and every day we put a lot of pressure on the ministry of oil, which must provide fuel , do not import, and with strange records. some people talk about the consumption of cars, they blame the people, or some people blame the car

, they blame the quality of the fuel, and god willing, for the past two years , we have been talking about commenting on the price , now about this situation. how to pass see us with the default. the institutional method that is now in the country there is no way we can pass this stage and we should not expect that all cases will adapt to our default. rather, we are in a situation where we are facing certain complexities of increasing consumption quickly, and if all our solutions are based on this default of the existing situation , i.e. explaining the fuel card and liter subsidy, in fact, we want to move forward with many problems and people's dissatisfaction. we face now the government's claim is that i not only subsidize 1,500 tomans gasoline, but also 30 gasoline. we have a subsidized gasoline fuel and a more subsidized gasoline fuel

we have that under the title of 1500 tomans, now when this discussion is raised that it should be allocated to the car owner or to the common people of all people, some people mistakenly imagine that now it is the same 4500 tomans , which means if this number is a subsidy, like a subsidy that is allocates people. not sending the execution is the next step, but there is no debate about the fact that we have a problem, not now between the

two proposed methods, the current method and the proposed method , which one is closer to justice in your opinion? i think you can see that the issue is that, as i said, serving you is about justice and equality, and this is what we are supposed to do what should we do? you know what the issue is. the issue is that you say that we have a problem now. we are not arguing that there is a problem with the fuel card. it is not a problem. does the solution of the fuel card mean that we have to come and give gasoline to someone, or do we have this problem now ? it is a subsidy issue. you see, we have discussed work with subsidies. you said, for example, that justice is smuggled. nawaz, explaining and bringing up the discussion of explanation and fuel card, and this, which has always been brought up, now in the discussion, let us talk about subsidies, let us talk about the situation that is definitely different now. that is, i am saying that it is not applicable at all to give it to the national code and what problems will it cause you can see that now they understand the subsidy issue. yes, the issue

is that we are the government. now the government is coming to give gasoline and it is paying for this gasoline . regarding this work, is the high consumption caused by what is caused by the high consumption of people, that is, if we, for example, have the main proposition once again , we are talking at the beginning of our path about whether this redistribution is done fairly. is the distribution of gasoline fair or not, i just want to know what the price is now in your presence, what is the amount of consumption now ? let us first discuss whether this method is fair or we should replace it with another method instead of fair without conditions like this. let me tell you, well , now, i mean, in the past years, more than, for example, 50

or 100 years, this industry has been doing it. he doesn't think that his car will go, is it because, for example, that i have a problem with gas when i'm blind on the way i want to go ? it is being done , it has never caused people to worry that i am having trouble getting this, that is, it has always been explained that those who live in the village and those who live in the city always have access to this gasoline. it has, but now according to the circumstances, they say , for example, that these cities are explained in euros and they don't have quality work, but we have never had the opportunity to say that the

person who was at the bottom of the society or the person who was at the top of the mistake did not have access to this much , that's why i want to serve you. let's say we have discussed justice, which means the availability of the strata if we want to compare the rich and the decade, whether it is high or low , there is a difference between them, not justice, in terms of paying the subsidy, i told you that the subsidy is different

. maybe they use it in a different way . the government gives them energy subsidies, for example, the anda committee gives them energy subsidies in another form, the government gives them subsidies in another form, for example, they have health insurance. thank you , mr. nawaz. he doesn't pay for it and, for example, he has health insurance it compensates for your presence, which is subsidized to the following people. in my opinion , the government should answer this question with the figures, whether such a thing is happening or not, we do not see such a thing happening , see now that everyone can use the metro taxi public cars without this , you have nothing to do with this. you did not set a limit that the first seven deciles use or the

top third use, but this happened in the field of fuel. you see, if i have four cars, i will benefit more from subsidized fuel . you can compare, the motor courier who is one his engine is worn out, he doesn't even have a fuel card, he buys gas for 3,000 tomans, and in front of him is a family that has 3 cars, and he actually receives it for 3,000 tomans. if we talk about the justice of the jurisprudential discussion, sir, for example, if an oil product is anfal or bitalmal, it will take a long time and it is not our expertise. but in this field , if we want justice, let's talk. yes, people should benefit from the subsidy paid by the government. look at the lower seven tenths. now you said the relief committee, yes, we are seven tenths. we are talking about this week, even if you assume that a price or non-price solution to control

consumption happens in the country, by the way, the top three deciles do not suffer at all, it is the lower seven deciles that do. because the effects of those decisions can be seen in their lives, for the fuel they don't receive, the subsidy they don't receive, and the car they don't have. now i said this in response to your question. allow mr. tamdan to say that it is not enforceable, you also agree with them , see, we believe in two steps that it is enforceable you see , i personally paid a lot of attention to the discussions in this regard . i would also like to thank sedasa sima organization for this program. next, they look at themselves, that is, the politicians look at the politics, they look at the economy , they look at the social debates, they look at the social debates, now the technical implementation is less discussed, but whenever i feel in the debates

, they go to the technical implementation debates. i saw how we agree now, see now in the current situation if we insist on explaining the subsidy in this way , what are we going to do now? we are now giving people 60 liters of 1,500 tomans gasoline in the fuel card of mr. engineer, whose price difference is 300 tomans, 1,500 tomans . we give it to people in the form of liters . well, when we say that it should not be allocated to the car , it means that in fact we will allocate the same 90,000 tomans per month as a credit to the owner. we want it to be implemented successfully. in the second step, the economic, political and social dimensions of this will be he discussed the matter to be explained to everyone and went in that direction. we still haven't implemented the first step

, we can't mark a big stone. in the current situation, if the government wants to identify the real consumer , it should monitor the amount of consumption, the amount of the foot , and provide fuel according to the amount of navigation. with the current situation and the systems that currently exist, it is facing a problem . there is no possibility of monitoring the foot. for example, if i give you my credit card, you will take it you consume, no one will notice you, but when the credit is for you personally, who owns the car , there is no need for control at the level of the fuel station, because you received the credit and it is for you personally, with bank payment or various methods that exist. you can use this credit in the form of fuel consumption

, not cashable credit. what are we saying now? get a 60 liter fuel card for 1,500 tomans, that's the difference 150 to 300 tomans, which is 90 thousand tomans , will be provided to you as a credit, you will not pay any amount up to 90 thousand tomans, that means you will receive the 60 liters , and the remaining 90 thousand tomans will be paid by yourself. it's burned out. now we're talking about it. look, if assignment to the national code happens, it's not possible without removing the souq card . now, there's a point here. look, we have some problems. we have problems . the provision of explanation and monitoring of these should not be left aside, well, it is a very big question i want to ask briefly because we want to skip the issue of justice. in your opinion, the current method is closer to justice , or should we give it to the national code, in my opinion, in two steps

, to the car owner, and then, if the conditions are ready, to all the national codes, even those who do not have a car. it is closer to justice. it is closer to justice . you don't agree with the opinion of mr. tamdan, who says that i agree with him to some extent, that is, our opinion changes from one place to the next. mr. tamdan gave other reasons. which was rejected, see mr. engineer's discussion with that main topic of the program it's different, we had a full explanation discussion, but now we have come to the conclusion that the full explanation discussion cannot be implemented and we have a problem. well , mr. nawaz, i believed that this should happen in two stages. we will also discuss the first stage of the work , but that's another discussion. it was also the case that someone who owns four cars consumes more than someone who owns one car . it is not necessarily the case that the person who owns four cars, for example, has a hybrid car, maybe he does not consume as much as the person who owns an old car. it is enough to consume more than the subsidy, so when the consumption is less, it is a subsidy

it consumes less, no, they mean that with the power of these four shaslids, if he has a fuel card , the government is subsidizing him from four to 60 liters per month. yes, look at the government. now this is called a subsidy. the government gives him gasoline. taxes are charged for it , taxes are charged for it, it means that the person who owns a car does not pay any fees , this is the discussion that happened. then, what did you say in the next article? let me tell you, let's say that we are now suffering from a shortage of gasoline imports are now being compensated in some way because we can't do anything, for example, sometimes during eid. it will go up, which is normal, but on average, we have a deficit of 20 to 30 million liters of gasoline. let's assume that

the government has to explain this gasoline by 90 million to 100 million. it has changed, i don't want to get into it for now , it's a story that all those who need it can't get it, i can't afford it . we need 20 to 30 million liters of gasoline a day from all the people who sell it. society, considering that because we have a high consumption , my people are not consumers of these cars that are consuming, we do not import cars , the quality of our cars is higher in terms of consumption compared to other things. well, i want to tell you that this increase in gasoline consumption is a natural thing, that is , we know that we are dealing with it. now

, i know how the government is going to deal with these 203 million. after all , those who want to consume must consume as much as they need, because it is their own hand. it's not that he doesn't have a car, he can use it if he wants to spend money give it to me, it means that he wants to do something to provide services in azash, he will buy gasoline, and he will have to pay 20 million liters or 30 million. how are we going to give it to the people? at what price are we going to give it to the people? so, are we going to do something so that the government won't put money out of its own pocket? well, if we are going to pay this 20 million, we will pay the fob price, which means the same price that the government will end up with because it has to. he is going to import this, he is going to divide everything he produces , well, i assume that the balance between those who produce births, he will subsidize everything else. how much is, for example, 100 units in, for example, now he is explaining to the car owners this 100 units and to those who do not have a car , naturally, the car owner's share is the number of liters of gasoline.

he explains that he is not going to give any more money. he says that i have 90 million lei in production and 100 million lei . i want to give 15 liters to anyone who is 18 years old or younger. it is possible to balance with the person who dies, that is, nothing is going to be added, but with all the conditions, if we consider it constant , we have 23 million less in the same situation. let's talk about how much this 15 liters is going to cost for the production of our refineries. for example, let's say that the construction of our refinery will add 6 million liters to us in the best case in the next few years , which is no different from the main issue, that is, we should build a 6 million refinery now. the 10 million money that the government gives is the fav price and it is calculated with the refinery, which means that basically it has to buy it, whether it imports it or buys it from the refinery , it doesn't matter in the main issue, mr. nawaz , how will the remaining 203 million be compensated, i don't agree with mr. engineer which means an increase in consumption, see us too

the same existing situation, the same existing situation, the amount of explanation and the amount of increase in figures, what should we do with this deficit right now ? we are not going to solve all the problems in the fuel sector by implementing the subsidy allocation plan . it is not like this, but it is an important step. their question is that the government explained the subsidy it is now explaining to all those who don't have a car . it has a production deficit of 20-30 million liters that it is importing. how? does it have a production deficit or not? after all, yes, this national code is going to solve another issue. i told you, look, it is not at all supposed that we will immediately come to resist the increase in consumption with a plan that we implement. i say that if we do not take this action , we will have an increase in consumption. now

, it is almost close to his orders, but let me tell you one thing, the concerns are the concerns, mr. engineer, that is, when a change is wanted to happen, when a correction is wanted, everyone has concerns. the concerns should be answered, we are now witnessing the discussions we are on the same page in this field, which means that every technical expert talks about this in his own specialized field . there is no agenda to reach a consensus . the majlis research center gives its opinion. this agenda should be formed and all these discussions that we are having in the debate should be done there, while i would like to say one thing that now , see the part that was cut off, now we have non-price solutions , so to speak, in my opinion, non-price solutions. it has reached its highest limit, which means too much pressure companies subordinate to the ministry of oil and to the ministry of oil. in

this regard, you should not import at all , cover any amount of consumption , implement a non-price solution, but people should not be dissatisfied, that is, these are dream cases. let's face it, the government wants to do what the real consumer is in our decisions, whether it is the private sector or the position. ok , let's not be crushed by these decisions. well , here the government wants a tool. our current tool is the allocation of fuel subsidies with literage and with a fuel card. it is not those cases, this is definitely a prerequisite for all these decisions that the government or even the companies subordinate to the ministry of oil read, take this change and amendment of mr. bozar nasr, see the security requirements of the defense of the issues related to the ministry of oil regarding providing an explanation. and

all these concerns must be seen in the problem , we cannot ignore them simply because we want to control consumption, simply because we want to have justice in the explanation of subsidies, all these concerns must be answered, but we we believe that if in the first step, the allocation of fuel subsidy should be passed to the owner instead we can not at once from the current situation to assign to the national code of all people gasoline and subsidies