we will talk. if you are interested, stay with us until the end of this debate. watch us on the news network. please thank you well, i would like to start with mr. vermziari and the reason why he asked this question. do you agree that the javad ministry of agriculture should be in charge of rural affairs and that the focus of rural affairs should be defined under this ministry of home affairs ? let's start from the beginning, why do we need a trustee of the unit, what is the problem now, if they are clear yes, then it will be easier for the trustee to talk about it. look, now, as you

said, one of the most fundamental challenges is the lack of balanced development in the area of ​​villages. there is no single , unified and accountable trustee. now we have a problem with the budget, the budget of the villages every year. the industrial budget comes, the bill is formulated, then it comes to the parliament , it is hammered, and finally it becomes a law after the approval of the honorable guardian council. economic dimensions there are employment, production and cultural dimensions. for example , the construction dimensions of kalodi allocate 70-80% of the country's rural development budget. what does that mean? it means that there isn't a mastermind who organizes these plans and rural bills in different dimensions in a way that gives priority to employment discussions.

discussions of production are related to discussions of livelihood, which has a more fundamental role in the livability of the village and the reduction of migration from the village to the city. on the contrary, what is the result of this? the result is that you make the villages more urban every day. rural furniture, rural green spaces , we are promoting all these, but while the issue of production and employment is seen as weak, the second issue is the low share of the village in the budget, which is very low . usually, it is not more than 34% of the total budget , while the share of the population according to the last census was 24.9%, now it has decreased a bit, but it is still above 20%, and this is actually not fair . in industrial budgets , for example , if we spend so many billion tomans for a certain project, how much rural poverty is going to be reduced. rural employment should flourish, exports from villages should increase, and such indicators should increase.

we don't have villages, they are usually not a priority for the executive body, except for the limited ones , they are usually not a priority and their reputations are a priority, even when they pay attention to the village , they don't pay attention to the essential differences between the village and the city because of their plans. that effect is not necessary. for example, let me give you an example. we should have a different version of social insurance and disability pension for a villager than in a city where the worker is a factory worker. form we can't come with the same social security version of the social security organization for agriculture, which is both an employer and a worker. let's come with the same version and create social insurance for him. after that, the effectiveness of projects, plans, and programs will not be evaluated locally. that's why we can't come and fix the projects, for example, we'll implement the sustainable rural employment law , we'll spend a lot of money for years, and later we'll see where we were

, while if there was a monitoring mechanism, there would be problems from the very first year. it specifies the coming and the program corrects it, and the last issue is the lack of local plan and the lack of people's participation. this is the slogan of the year when hazrat agha said that we don't have a mechanism to get the participation of the people from that floor of the village , from that floor of the village. these are the three, these are the people's own opinion, sitting next to the expert's opinion , and prioritizing, not the executive body from top to bottom, from the level of tehran, from the center level , to prioritize for the villages. he is a policy maker and a uniform and accountable person we say that the jihad that the trustee who wants to be appointed , 3 horses must be observed in it. the first principle is that it should be appropriate. the structure that this organization for

the development of bashai village wants to take place in should be in the place that is the most appropriate. well , we cannot. let's find a home ministry that zero to 100 village affairs are only related to it, there is no ministry. we can't find it, so what does your rationality create? it says that you go find the most suitable place, the rest of his statement will help him, he will be the center of the others, help them. well, the most suitable place for the many reasons of the ministry of jihad agriculture, among other things , the district jihad center has the largest number of specialized forces related to the village issue, natural resources such as pastures, forests , deserts, all these areas are under the policy of the ministry of jihad, agriculture, agricultural lands under the ministry of jihad. monetary and financial institutions, such as agricultural support funds, such as the agricultural bank, which legally have duties in the rural area, these are the opposite of the ministry of agricultural jihad, all the organizations and unions , which legally have non-agricultural duties in their statutes, how well will they be implemented or not?

it is another matter, but the capacity that exists is experience the world also shows this. now, in the next round, i will explain what the world's experiences say, but this shows that the most appropriate ministry is the jihad. now we say that the second principle is the principle of authority, that we must use the power of the ministry of interior with a mechanism. the third principle is the principle of participation. the people we designed for him , thank you, mr. vermaziri, he wants to be serious . in this round, they are on their own, in their own words. well, let's go to mr. nur ali, sir. how much do you believe that these challenges that mr. vermziari mentioned exist now and are basically a there is no single trustee and accountability, and this has caused these incidents to fall say and tell me if you agree with the trusteeship of javadi agricultural goat or not , do you agree with another device, in the name of allah, the most merciful, the most merciful , i offer my greetings, courtesy and respect to his highness and the viewers of the good program above. i

would like to present a theory to mr. barmziari. rigze theory this theory says that in order for countries to develop, they must learn from management. to move towards decentralized management. on the way , they reach a region called the manshuvari region, which actually has a semi-centralized state so that countries can successfully travel this path. bermerjari should have a split in their management, the discussion of centralization and decentralization is a vertical category in this theory. the discussion of uniformity and lack of uniformity is a horizontal category, which means that this is a different issue. if we want to move the country in the direction of centralizing management, 100 this is a mistake, because a centralized country

is both centralized and developed in the same fabric. a country achieves development if its management is decentralized and integrated, and... a country collapses in terms of its political system if its management is decentralized and not unified, so it is the best the situation for us is that we should go towards a situation where our management is decentralized and we have unity. your highness said that for this unity, you want to create a centralized management with a trustee organization that will actually manage this matter centrally. toward our development, right now that we are at your service, in the presidential complex, the honorable vice president for development, the meaning of rural development and deprived areas, there is this structure

, that is, they lead, make policies , and put an end to it for the development of the village from top to bottom. this was discussed below, now from below as you said above that planning is from the top down, it can be done from the bottom up based on the single article of the law on the establishment of self-sufficient village administrations, that is, the public administration of village affairs is entrusted to the village affairs institution, and the district administrations are responsible for coordinating the affairs of the village administrations. according to the nature of those governorships, the ministry of interior is obliged to coordinate the affairs of the village councils. creating another mechanism for the development of the village will distance us from the people of paige, and this shows that we have the concept of centralization, centralized management, with the management of a

we did not separate the fabric, god willing, regarding this matter i want to talk more so that the dimensions of the discussion have been opened up for us. we are at your service. you agree that you are not in charge. no, thank you, mr. vermziari. it should be coordinated and unified . when we say centralized, it does not mean that we collect the duties of all executive bodies and do not assign any role to them. let's collect them. the republic wants to be formed, no, this is not our discussion , our discussion is that the example i gave , you can see in your rural development budget that it allocates 70-80% of the rural budget to itself, the service dimensions of the rural development, the production issue

is on the sidelines, so what is this for? because a rationality could not make this appropriate , and you say that the honorable vice president for development of rural areas and underprivileged areas, the first vice president , finally plays this role, i do not believe that he plays this role, because if he could play the sixth program was the assignment that was attached an independent budget for the villages should be developed and the policy-making in the form of a piece of cloth, which was our own proposal , was approved . there should be a patchwork in the matter of policy-making. none of these happened, and due to various reasons, the respected vice-chancellor in its current form cannot do this task. do it , it should be transformed to be placed next to this organization that we are proposing, and by the way, we fully agree with the discussion of a division of executive bodies that are specialized, such as the ministry of health and medicine, for example , the ministry of education. it does its job, but on the occasion that i mentioned, this device is very often

because they can't spend enough time , they don't have a rural view, the expertise of rural development has not been placed in an organization that has the governance of the issue. we call this organization because it has rural expertise, because it is a rural development specialist, because it has a rural planning specialist. it is, and it is within his authority, from the highest directorate to the lower level, they create this look , they empower the devices, they say , sir, instead of doing this, this is a cheaper way. it is effective for the semester, they empower them to perform their duties, while indexing the strategy, formulating the strategy, this work is done at the local level as well as the local day plan system where the planning goes from the bottom up, making it independent. now we have a problem. for example, the ministry of jihad agriculture

has developed a series of cooperatives since 60 years ago and 70 years ago. now, no matter how many problems and weaknesses they have, or for example, a series of companies, for example, a certain ministry comes to my house. it means that i want to form, for example, 3 thousand cooperatives in the villages without let's see the history, why they didn't succeed. if they are unsuccessful, what is the way now without using experts in the field? well, the country has had resources for several decades now, especially since 1979. it is wasted because there is no expert trustee , we have to accept that the father of rural development should not consider the rural program of a village scholar as simple, that anyone without expertise can come and be placed in a position, and we respect everyone. we are dear ones, we do not mean this government, not different eras i would like to say that we should really accept that the delegation of village management wants a specialization, and this specialization should be possessed by the relevant institution

or not. do you think that the resources of the deputy of rural development of the regions of the first vice president have this specialization or not? you see, we say that he must have expertise, that is, the person who is placed in that position and his body must have this specialized look and this expertise, according to our belief , there was no such thing in many courses. no according to the so-called circular of mr. honorable first deputy in 1993, if i'm not mistaken, this center became a deputy and there it was decided that this is another parallelism. there is a circular. the circular cannot be contrary to the permanent law of the country. the village development is in charge of the ministry. did you know that i say expertise means that it must be established in that law, in that regulation, it is clearly stated, now

, for example, in the law of its formation , it is stated in its constitution that the head of the organization should be he should be a person who is specialized in medicine , he should have this experience in rome, but in our rural structure , we don't usually have such a story. i state but there is this criticism that the housing foundation only does construction infrastructure work, it is a lot of physical work, and i am sorry that it is not done in this way. how much do you believe in this? in the name of allah , the most merciful, the most merciful. i heard friends, please tell me about agricultural jihad. in my previous program, i was at your service. i said that jihad should be active in the field of rural production in the best possible way. all the things that mr. vermziari mentioned, that

jihad has power up to the center of the village , has the support of the people from agriculture, monetary institutions of agricultural bank and the stories of such a union and everything else, well , for years, these are at the disposal of the ministry of agriculture. the residence is different if the title may kenan, the village budget is low. yes, it is true. we also agree with this discussion, but the village budget should not necessarily be seen as the agricultural sector in the heart of the village. most of the agricultural land is in the city limits. now you say my housing foundation, because my question to you is more related to the housing foundation. well , i'm saying the same thing, i'm saying that if you ask me about agricultural jihad, they say no for these reasons. there is another explanation, i didn't ask javad khazuri.

i told you that my housing foundation is because i spoke in my previous programs as one of my trustees. i said that this is a criticism that you only work physically, you can't do it. the housing foundation is in charge of all the affairs of the village. you see, agriculture is not separate from the farmer. where does the farmer's life flow in the body of the village? what we do is to give shape to the village life, to improve the living environment of that village, to feel security and peace with efficiency. it creates a foundation and flows in the village. life prospers, happiness is created, well, if the farmer is well, my agriculture will be fine, no matter how much we pay attention to it in the farm, but we do not revive the rural residence , there is no reason for a villager to stay in the village because it is easy to transport this work. he comes to the city in the morning and returns to the farm, but for a thousand and one reasons it is necessary for a villager

to live in the village and for the village to stand. we don't just do infrastructure work, we do physical work. we are also serious. can you name them? yes , we have prepared tarhadi for 40,000 villages with more than 20 households. we have 45 years of serious experience in the village, saying that things cannot be done with the participation of the people. you say that we delivered more than 6 million rural documents with the participation of the people themselves with the cooperation of the sabbat administration, preparations have been made for 400 villages with the participation of the people themselves. this is how much the people contribute. for example, if we want to say a number , see one of them. tell us to talk to the people in the village . we talk to the elected people who are the councils. we

talk to the villager who is the manager of the village's affairs. this is the legal clarity of this paragraph seven of the constitution of the maskaneh foundation which was in the 66th year of the parliament it has been approved. we do this in the implementation of the law. it is not a department letter, it is not a resolution, it is not the product of a one-man idea or a research center. please, yes , let me tell you that mr. barmaziri said the current situation that we have reached here now, you can see that the current situation of the villages is not comparable to 1957. mr. varmaziri , quantitatively, more than 90% of the infrastructure of water, electricity, gas , internet network and these are available in the villages. the added village means the country

iran in quantitative rural development. it is one of the drivers of development that exists in the world, and i think mr. barmziari's own studies will confirm this, and i have a specific question for mr. vahrziari, because i want to know what he said about these issues. in terms of the general aspect, as i said, your service includes both the vice president and the rural and underprivileged areas of the presidency, as well as the interior ministry, with the structure that actually moves up from the rural assistants, and i said that they are no longer experts. if the aim is to establish a body in charge of rural development the specialty is that this causes

the specialized devices that are working now to lose their jobs. you see, since we taught the lesson of heavenly gifts in schools and since the revolution, it was religious education, then it became heavenly gifts. we left the responsibility of god knowledge for our children to be taught by this unit. the physics teacher, the math teacher excused himself from teaching theology in his lesson, which means we actually created a secularism. by creating a specialized organization in this field, we will cause secularism in our rural development. this is my answer your highness, i wanted to know what it is. and i say , what are the enemy's plans for this secularization of our development in the country? yes, you are in the same position that the deputy of hase rastai is a specialist place for the doctor

to give his own prescription, who was in charge of this major problem now, so see your progress. you said that there should be an organization to empower the villages. to finish these, the majlis research center. it's a very good plan . do you agree to this every year? it means that for empowerment, if they put this in the hands of the ministry of interior, they should notify it and implement it . the ministry of interior will do this, obviously not. what is your proposal for the discussion of rural development governance in my country ? for example, the road and urban development organization

, the ministry of road and urban development, has not done its job, or the housing foundation has not done its job, all of these are true , there are some shortcomings, but they are doing their job and advancing the development. organization. there is a hypothesis that they say to modify the structure to modify the performance. there are a number of scientists who the function is said to correct the function, the structure

will be corrected by itself. now the new theory talks about institutionalism, it says that the structure and the function must be corrected together. in fact, this order that i mentioned also has a time order . and let's see our existing organizations and you will be recommended. what is our new institutionalism? we don't need to create a new structure. what should we do? we need to correct the defective structures and functions. well , this is my question now. this is my example, mr. doctor. i have a very clear example. the development of our villages is not balanced. what is your suggestion? let's see if our executive bodies are suitable for the nature of the villages. sometimes it is not appropriate, well, it should have that rural look somewhere , it should fit these projects with the eyes of the villages, with whom should it be done, see, now in the government of ayatollah

raisi, he has put these glasses on his eyes in two places and is focusing on village development is a presidential development vice president where mr. madani is present at the jihadi headquarters of the ministry of interior for village development where sardar bekai is responsible there. these two people what is the division of work between the jihadi camp and the ministry of interior and the deputy for rural development? look , we have joint meetings every month, the nomadic organization housing foundation, the camp of the ministry of interior and development of rural areas and the deprived areas of the presidency. joint meetings resulting from a clever series. there are groups that work under those groups . they raise exactly the problems that you mentioned, the shortcomings that exist, and they bring forward a plan. we

are currently implementing the takamo plan in the country, as well as the plan for the housing foundation system. it is being implemented. well, look at what i am saying now . this is a parallel work. you can also see that the honorable ministry of the country is very careful in the field of villages. it is very good and very happy. the approach of the new government in this regard is really commendable, but this is a parallel work. you see , now the ministry of agricultural jihad has a series of programs for itself for employment. the honorable ministry of the country has a series of programs for itself through the jihad camp. now, an order and work that we have for employment now , for example, we are rural employment, the law of sustainable rural employment was approved and implemented in the previous government in the previous parliament, and it had a lot of challenges. we have presented a version that

allows knowledge-based employment, knowledge-based entrepreneurship, people-oriented and participation-oriented. in the village, he should promote dining areas, but this has not yet reached the point of emergence by the executive body. it was the interview of the supreme administrative council of 1998, when the established government came, it changed its title , construction jihad was added to it, and its composition was slightly different, and its structure was slightly different. the supreme council, which we believe, does not work for coordination. the supreme council is not convened once a year, sometimes once every 4 years. it is now that the supreme council has been convened at the highest level for the past 3 years or so, so it doesn't really work. it is for the executive body to defend their own performance , not to be connected to the realities of the field now i don't want to get into the detailed criticism of the supreme council

, one point. to say that until now , most of the affairs were in the hands of the ministry of agriculture, the result is that we are saying that, definitely, since the revolution until now, many services have happened, a significant part of which is due to the efforts of the construction jihad institute and the construction jihad ministry. it is truly a miracle. it has happened at the level of our villages , especially in the field of service delivery, but the issue of employment, the issue of the economy of the chiefs has not progressed as far as the unit, and besides, it means the breakdown of the performance of the executive bodies. let's look at it in a relative way, a lot of mistakes have been made, even though the villages were the second priority for them, many of the executive and rural bodies are second-class citizens, but the combination of these is not the right combination, that is, you sit with the ministry of roads and say, i have made so many roads with the housing foundation. beshini says that i prepared so much tarhadi and performed it with jihad. beshini says that i did this

, but the combination of these things that you put together, what should have happened, did not happen because , for example, we went to the normal plan, we did not consider the production at once. oh, for example, we paved the stone, sorry, cow zimston slipped and broke, or, for example , we developed housing in some way. now, in the 7th program, we also followed up, friends. a change was made. we built housing in such a way that we did not see the issue of domestic livelihood. . also, during the past 40 years, we were the 10th country in the world in terms of the rate of rural population decline

. i will say the last point , of course, the explanation of time is not fair, it means two people on one side, one person on one side, you should give some more time. well, the agricultural jihad had the unions, and i don't know if it had the financial resources of the banks, why didn't it work? look, we shouldn't watch the game from the second half , we have to watch it from the beginning. you came after the merger of the two home ministries in 1979. you took advantage of the directives of the underprivileged areas office of the kurdish presidency, the center of underprivileged areas and rural development, then you did this , the deputy of rural development of underprivileged areas did a parallel job, then you made that law irrelevant . housing should be shared they want those physical discussions to be designed in harmony with the production discussions, but the inevitable

housing foundation is already doing this.