♪ we are marching we are marching we are marching ♪ [ singing in japanese ] [ cheers and applause ] this is "nightline." >> byron: tonight, bethenny frankel, one of the most famous stars of the real housewives franchise, now taking on reality

tv. >> are you biting the hand that fed you? >> that hand that said feed me deserves to be bitten. it's time. >> byron: the business magnate and tiktok star now leading a reality reckoning. >> this isn't about you crying for money. >> i don't want one thing. i want to be respected. >> byron: fighting for change in the industry. >> it's "game of thrones." you're killing or you're being killed. >> byron: plus, willem dafoe. >> misery, misery, misery, that's what you've chosen! >> byron: the star of hits like "spider-man" back on the silver screen for an avant garde new movie already getting oscar buzz. >> i've come here to walk you down the aisle. >> byron: sharing the screen with fan favorite emma stone. >> she's talented, she's smart, she's kind, she's cool. she brought me into the project. >> byron: and revealing what he can about his part in the upcoming sequel to the cult classic "beetlejuice." >> is there anything we can know? >> byron: and the first night of hanukkah.

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everything is looking great. but not just for me. for them. it's great to see you again man. thanks jb. for all that is me, for all that is you, kaiser permanente. >> byron: good evening. thank you for joining us. we have breaking news tonight. hunter biden has been indicted on nine tax charges in california. the indictment alleges the president's son earned large sums of money from foreign entities and, quote, spent

millions of dollars on an extravagant lifestyle at the same time he chose not to pay his taxes. biden's attorney tonight saying in part, "the u.s. attorney has piled on nine new charges when he had agreed just months ago to resolve this matter with a pair of misdemeanors," adding that they will address the charges in various courts. these charges carry a penalty of up to 17 years in prison. we turn now to a reckoning in the world of reality television, led by bethenny frankel. the former real housewife of new york city star says reality stardom comes at a high price. she's speaking out on what she says has to change. here's my "nightline" co-anchor juju chang. >> hi. >> hi! >> oh, hi, baby. >> oh, my god. no barking for you. >> no barking. >> well, do you want to see where the magic happens? >> absolutely. >> reporter: we're inside the

palace with the once reigning queen of reality tv. >> this is the glam room. >> oh, my gosh. >> reporter: bethenny frankel, the grand dame of bravo's iconic "the real housewives of new york," has had a busy retirement since leaving reality tv. >> it's exactly like i would imagine bethenny's closet. >> really? >> yeah. >> yay. >> it's perfectly organized. it is perfectly curated. >> reporter: trained as a chef in her early days she's even become a lucrative tiktok food critic. >> have you ever tried cottage cheese and caviar? mm. >> reporter: and beauty influencer, exposing the bargain jewels from the pricey duds. >> some beauty products that are at the level. this is excellent. >> and that's where you put your phone? >> so you put your phone here. >> i've tried every high-low foundation this side of the mississippi. >> i was like look at this side. the expensive looks like the cheap. it got 15 million views. >> reporter: with 1.5 million followers. >> you like tell it like it is. unfilt unfiltered. that's always been your brand. >> i do. but even to say it's a brand feels like it's not being

honest. >> if somebody came to you and said you know, bethenny, i'm thinking of signing up for a reality show, what would you say? >> they think it's going to be the fun next chapter. they don't realize that it could put them in a detrimental situation. >> is that the price of fame? >> it might be the price of fame. >> reporter: when it comes to "real housewives" franchise there's perhaps no one more famous than bethenny frankel. after nearly two decades in the reality game, nearly 400 episodes across four networks, bethenny leveraged all that reality tv fame or infamy and launched an empire. one of her most famous products, skinny girl margarita. >> hi, i'm bethenny, creator of the skinny girl margarita, the margarita you can trust. >> reporter: bethenny is essentially an elder statesman of the genre, and now she's trying to launch a revolution. the so-called reality reckoning. >> reality television exploits affairs, bankruptcy, falling off the wagon, saying something inappropriate, risking cancellation every single time the camera goes on.

>> you called it the reality reckoning. >> yes. it was okay to do things that one day we all woke up and said how is that okay? >> this isn't about you for money? >> i haven't asked for one thing. i want to be respected and i'm going to change the entertainment industry. >> i myself have generated millions and millions of dollars in advertising and online impressions being on reality tv and have never made a single residual. >> reporter: and other reality stars are rallying too. leah mcsweeney from "the real housewives of new york" and "love is blind's" nick thompson and jeremy hartwell. they say the chaos that makes these shows so addictive comes at a high cost to their real lives. >> this group of talent is the most overworked, overexploited and least compensated. there's no group that has a greater risk. >> they're clearly being exploited. exploiting the reality tv star is the whole point of the show.

but they are absolutely signing up for that. these people want to be on tv. >> the benefit is that people who are on reality shows, it's become a reality show career for people. >> it's "game of thrones." you're killing or you're being killed. there is no middle. there is no gray. gray are women that become friends or women that become fired. >> watching things like that normalizes bad behavior. these shows normalize substance abuse. they normalize physical violence with the catfights that break out. and it normalizes emotionally abusive behaviors. >> reporter: but some would argue that behavior is exactly the thrill of reality tv. and some fans wonder would changing the industry kill the genre? >> you know, a lot of people think, well, are you biting the hand that fed you? >> that hand didn't feed me. we fed each other. and that hand that did feed me deserves to be bitten. it's time. >> reporter: bethenny's trademark brashness that put her at the forefront of this fight also helped spark her television

career in 2005 on the martha stewart spinoff of "the apprentice." >> you're looking for a star and someone who has total potential. >> reporter: she parlayed that into a role on the original cast of "the real housewives of new york." >> i want to be a household name, like a modern healthy martha stewart. >> reporter: she unfiltered and unapologetic persona a ratings bonanza for bravo. for years. >> mention it all! >> may my heart be your shelter and my arms be your home. >> reporter: her wedding back in 2010 at the time was the highest rated event bravo had ever broadcast. >> i went through a ten-year horrific divorce. and that marriage is being exploited and monetized and sold to so many different entities. >> reporter: early on bethenny says she knew nothing about business. in her first contract she agreed to a season-long salary of $7,250 and no residuals. >> i know that my content is all

over the world, that i did 15 years ago before i ever knew that there would be a peacock stream or any streamers or gifs or memes or anything. youtube clips, social media. so we signed our lives away not realizing where it would be distributed for decades to come. >> the idea of residuals is every time your episode plays again you get a little tiny bit more money and the more popular your show is the more it's going to get played again. >> reporter: rich showenstein has an expertise in entertainment contracts. he doesn't represent bethenny but says that the old ways are outdated. >> a person who comes on a show in the first instance is not given residuals. and i bet at the start of reality television nobody thought that was strange. the industry has changed. the technology has changed. so it does create a new landscape. those original contracts will still be enforced according to their terms.

they have to be renegotiated or amended by the parties if the parties want to change them. >> reporter: bethenny still managed to strike gold during her time on the show. >> i've never been great at contracts. but i've always been good at concepts. so i agreed to the money but crossed out the part where they could take a percentage of my future business. little did i know that i was the only one who crossed that part out. i mean, really cashed out big time. ♪ >> reporter: that savvy move allowed her to keep all of the reportedly $100 million payout from her sale of skinny girl in 2011. the now 53-year-old single mom was living her best life in her cozy suburban home when the writers and actors in hollywood went on strike. >> what is it that makes labor issues so hot right now? >> there's a big thing going on in society about exploitation overall. people are just starting to open

their eyes and realize what's okay and what's not okay. reality television needs a systemic overhaul and a governor and possibly a union. i was just talking about the strike in general that was going on. >> you have to think about your work as work. you have to sort of think about the fact that like you are being exploited, that your conditions could be better. and that somebody has the power to make your conditions better. >> you know, a lot of these entry-level reality show contracts, they don't pay very much at all. surprisingly little. and i think the performers are saying that's not right, we should be paid more. and if it takes a union to get us that, then that's what we want to do. >> reporter: page 6 showed the moment at bravocon this year when andy cohen, host and executive producer of the "real housewives" franchise, was asked about the reality reckoning. >> we need to talk about reality reckoning and bethenny frankel. >> no. i don't want to talk about that.

what i think is i live in the joy that these shows bring people, and i think we all do. >> you are good friends with andy cohen. he literally made you a star. >> he didn't make me a star. he made himself a star on the backs of all of these women. >> i'm sure i've surprised and disappointed andy cohen. and he really was a big fan of mine as a housewife. andy knows that i'm right on so many levels. otherwise, he wouldn't all of a sudden be making this whole franchise about joy. >> reporter: impact reached out to andy cohen. his team declined to comment. >> how much do you think the industry has responded to you? >> i think that bravo is now seeing it very clearly. they're making a lot of changes. and not just bravo. this is the entire entertainment industry. they've awakened. and no matter what, a change has been made and will continue to be made. >> byron: our thanks to juju. you can watch the full episode of "impact by nightline: reality

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welcome back. with more than four decades in front of the cameras willem dafoe is known as an actor's actor. his newest role in a film called "poor things" demands he undergo a dramatic physical transformation. dafoe tells ashan singh how that

influences his performance. >> reporter: willem dafoe, thank you so much for joining us on "nightline." willem, you've been in the game for over 40 years. >> ayah. >> you come from appleton, wisconsin. you're a child of eight. your parents were a doctor and a nurse. you have no links to the entertainment industry. how do you get to this point? >> by stumbling. you know, you go toward situations. you go toward people. you go toward things that you love to do. you never think it's going to be a way to make your livelihood. but somehow it works out. >> you're known toar? iconic roles, "the florida project," "boon doc sain "spider-man" of course. >> you're pathetically predictable. >> i have to imagine you get your selection of projects at this point. >> you know, it's always a combination of you going toward projects and projects coming to you. i'm always on the lookout for good filmmakers and interesting projects. and then you try to make those things happen.

>> this is mr. mccandles. >> hello, bella. >> what actually drew you to "poor things"? >> well, yorgos lanthimos and emma stone called me one day and gave me a rough breakdown of the story and said we'd love you to play this role. and that night i read the script and it's fantastic. the tony mcnamara script. it's beautiful. based on a novel, a very beautiful novel of the same title by alistair graham. >> you're in my sun. >> what? >> tell me a little bit about the film for people who are not familiar. >> without giving spoilers it's really hard to describe what it is. but risking a little spoiler, i play an unorthodox doctor and a scientist in an imagined victorian age. and i deal with experimenting. and a cadaver comes one day that i use in my work and she's

pregnant. and the baby's alive. and for me i see this as an opportunity to advance science. to learn something. and it's a no-brainer to me, excuse the pun. but i take the baby's brain and i put it in the woman's body. okay. that sounds like a horror film. it's not really. but that's the setup. then there's this creation that is a 35-year-old woman's body with a baby's brain. learns very quickly, has no social conditioning, and that's who this creature is. and we follow her in her coming into the world. >> why don't we take a look at a clip? >> sure. >> my father once told me, always carve with compassion. he was a [ bleep ] idiot. but it's not bad advice. >> you're known for being a chameleon in a lot of your roles, but this role specifically for emma stone is a departure for how we're used to

seeing her. >> she's great. she's totally on top of it. she's talented, she's smart, she's kind. and also she brought me into the project. she's a producer on the project. and the movie is really centered around her. so it's really about i was there to serve her. >> yeah, and as we can see in the clip dr. baxter has an intense makeup job done. how long were you actually sitting in the chair? >> long enough. i don't like to brag about how long because i survived it. but you know, it's like anything. you can complain about it or you can turn it into a good thing. and the good part of it is you're sitting there and it's a nice preparation every day. you see yourself going away and the character being born. and that's a good place to start every day. >> i feel like you're being humble because i heard it was about six hours in the chair, in the makeup room. but i've got to ask you, when you do go through such a transformative process does that make you feel closer to the character? >> of course. of course. because when you don't look like yourself, when you don't feel

like yourself, i also had body prosthetics because he's been experimented on by his father. so he's interesting because he's a guy that decides to turn his pain into something positive, and i think ultimately he gives bella a chance, a new life, and he gives himself kind of through her a new life. >> willem, before we let you go, i have to ask you because it has been announced that the beetlejuice sequel is actually coming out and you and michael keaton will both be a part of it. >> yes. >> anything we can know? >> it was a great experience shooting it. tim burton, when you think about the films he's done, he's been a huge influence on cinema and made some -- has made beautiful films. fun films too. this was great fun. he's an incredible energetic force when you're on the set with him. and not only is there michael keaton coming back but also

winona ryder, catherine o'hara and also jenna ortega. and other people. but yeah, it was fun. and i look forward to seeing it too. >> willem, thank you so much for joining us. in the meantime, while fans are waiting for "beetlejuice 2," "poor things" is out now in theaters. ♪ >> byron: our thanks to ashan. when we come back, the first night of hanukkah. wowwww... this new charmin ultra soft smooth tear is soooo soft and soo smooth, i'm starting to get tearied away! ahhh, thank you mr. smooth bear. designed with smooth tear edges, new charmin ultra soft smooth tear has wavy perforations that tear so much better for a smooth more enjoyable go. mmmmm. huh? mom, you ok in there? i'm tear-ific! enjoy the go with charmin.

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>> byron: and finally tonight,

hanukkah begins. in washington the lighting of the national menorah in front of the white house symbolizing the first of eight nights of hanukkah. second gentleman doug emhoff delivered remarks condemning antisemitism. celebrated across the country and the world, hanukkah marks the victory of jerusalem over foreign invaders. according to folklore, when the jews repaired their temple after the invasion there was only enough lamp oil for one night but somehow it lasted for eight. traditionally, children receive a gift on each night of the holiday. happy hanukkah. that's "nightline" for this evening. catch full episodes on hulu. we'll see you right back here same time tomorrow. thanks for the company, america. good night.