on getting answers. although the majority of americans believe climate change is a serious threat, we've been denying science for a long, long time. we'll talk with the author of a new book that explains who's behind denial efforts, and why

we are so primed for it. memorial day weekend is just one week away in triple a says this year will be a huge one for travel. we'll talk to an expert about how to score the best deals by car and by plane. but first, with california's homeowners insurance market in crisis as more insurers refuse to write new policy due to wildfire risk, a new attempt at reform is gutted. so what now? you're watching, getting answers . i'm kristen sze. thanks for joining us. california's home insurance crisis is hitting families hard with brutal bills and more rate hikes on the way. that is, if they're getting renewed at all. california leaders are proposing a series of changes to how insurers calculate what they're charging and how fast they can raise rates as more and more companies announce they're leaving the state, a consumer centric bill that would have required companies to take fire prevention work into account when doing pricing, just got

gutted at the state capitol. joining us live now is amy bach, executive director of united policyholders, to talk about this. amy, thanks for your time. >> thanks for having me on. >> so how did this bill 1060 get gutted? what was taken out or changed and why? >> so what this is coming down to is, can state lawmakers tell insurance companies which customers they must have and which customers they can not insure? and i think what happened in sacramento with this bill is that the insurers had their way and convinced lawmakers that that you really you can't go there. that's the third rail of them being able to pick and choose their customers. >> what is the aspect with regard to taking fire prevention work into account? >> so we already do have regulations in place that are my organization worked to get in place that the commissioner put in. a year ago that said, okay,

insurance companies have to file new plans that say if you have hardened your home and you've created defensible space, then you do get a break on your insurance. so insurers are supposed to file these new plans, but it's been taking a really long time for them to get approved, we know for with the fair plan, if you're with the insurer of last resort, you can get a discount of up to 15. if you have checked all the boxes for making your home, more able to withstand a fire. >> all right, so by gutting that piece of it, right, the part that says, hey, if you've done all these things to make your home more fireproof and therefore more logically lowering your fire risk, you know, that should be taken into account. so now what's the impact? >> the impact is we're still in a very, very, bad place. and we are, we're insurers. we you know, if we had known years ago, that that this might happen, i

think we would have seen a bill like this sail through the legislature, to say, hey, insurers, you've got a sweet deal. and that people have to buy your product. right, and therefore, you have to behave responsibly and reward people who reduce risk. but now it's a really difficult time to impose a new mandate. and that's my guess, is that the, the, that, that the legislators colleagues said, hey, you know, this is just not a good time to impose a new mandate on insurers. it's a really tricky situation that we're in. right? >> it's almost like they have all the leverage right? the insurers, they do. right. let's talk about just, you know, zoom out a little bit. how much have prices risen if there is such a thing as an average, given how diverse our state is. but, you know, we kind of talk in the abstract about, oh my gosh, the rates have risen so much. give us a sense a lot, and depending on where you live, so you know, of your viewers who live in the area that was impacted by the oakland berkeley fire, they're

probably getting slammed really hard, you know, because they're all going into the fair plan, and the fair plan is a high risk pool. so those prices are very high. or they're going with what's called a surplus lines insurer, and their rates are not regulated at all. so we're looking at people paying getting hit with 8000, 10,000, 12,000, we've heard some jaw dropping premium amounts. and that's because people are not in the regular normal market. these are not, policies being quoted by the brand names. we all know. >> okay. so the normal market, the brand names that we know, i think governor newsom is proposing something to entice them back. right. let's allow them to raise rates more quickly. what is your view on that? >> well, i think we've got to try. we've got to try what we can. if it doesn't work, then we go back to the drawing board. right. because the way things are is a bit of a stalemate now. right? insurers are saying, we don't feel safe with the situation. right. it takes too

long for us to get our rates approved. right yeah, so we're trying to find a middle ground here. i'm a consumer advocate. i don't want to see them have a complete free pass. i don't think anyone. but they want that right, i know elected officials don't want that, so we're trying to find the middle ground. right, it does take a lot longer for them to get their rates approved in california than in most other states. and most other states. they fly right through here. it can take up to a year, and that's that's what i think we need to rejigger that. >> okay. so it sounds like you're saying there could be more of a middle ground, maybe move towards making that process a little quicker for them to get their rate approval plans, you know, quickened up or more approved more quickly, because, i mean, i guess from the business standpoint, i mean, i don't own an insurance company, but if i did, i would say, hey, i took a $15 billion loss in 2015 or whatever it was. right? i can't keep doing that year after year, so i'm going to pull out because it's bad business. what do you say to that? >> well, it's hard to argue if

their numbers are right. the question is, are their numbers right? right. we know that state farm got their ratings downgraded, which was a historic, not a good thing. right? saying that they're not as strong as they as they need to be, so that that does suggest that that their number that what they're saying like that their losses are what they are, you know, they're we look, you know, the insurers got all the cash out of the p-g-and-e's bankruptcy deal, and that offset a lot of their losses from the from the 2017, 2018 wildfires. they don't talk about that, so, you know, we don't buy everything the insurers say. on the other hand, it certainly does look like they need rate adjustments. >> so let me ask you what that might mean for people who are struggling already with paying their insurance bills the way it is now, look, i wonder if you allow the rates to go up, which is what it would take to keep some of these companies. would that mean people just wouldn't opt in to insurance? i mean, is

that is that something that can happen or legally that cannot happen where you are very underinsured and therefore exposing yourself as a homeowner? >> well, what we want to do is get the admitted normal brand name carriers fully back in the areas where they've pulled out of right, because their rates are regulated. right? yeah. so those rates are going to be more affordable than what people are paying now with the surplus lines and the fair plan. so that is important, and then, you know, we are looking at having to form a national publicly supported disaster insurance program because clearly insurers have not been insured, climate change deniers, in fact, they were one of the first sectors to say it's here. and they've been adapting so that that's what we're feeling. we're feeling the pain of insurers adapting to climate change. and we're trying we need a middle ground. okay. >> so can i just ask you before i let you go, why are auto insurance rates also going up?

>> well, they say it's inflation, you know, we had the covid 19 supply chain that made prices for parts, go skyrocket. and there were big delays and, and that's the main thing that, that they, that, that insurers are citing to also there was a there were a couple years where no auto insurance rate increases were approved by the department, and so there's, there's a bit of a, of a backlog there. and insurers, you know, got pretty upset about that. and so, you know, that's being been fixed. so we should see auto insurance rates coming down for sure. all right, before i let you go, any real quick tips for homeowners trying to find insurance? go to upheld org and look at our updated buying tips, we are trying to help consumers in the here and now, you know, with what is, raise your deductible, bundle your auto and home uh, get rid of any coverages that

you can live without, but work. find a really good agent. that's probably one of the most important tips we can give people. this is not a market for individual consumers to be navigating on their own. you really need professional help. >> absolutely. amy bock with the united policyholders, thank you so much. and with climate change fueling worsening wildfires, one state is actually deleting climate change from all its laws. we'll dive into the new book that digs into climate change denial and the tactics decades in

into law. that means climate change no longer need to be

needs to be considered when crafting florida policy and state agencies no longer need to use climate friendly products. this move comes despite his state's vulnerability to the negative consequences of climate change. but desantis is hardly alone in denying what we have actually experienced acutely in the past half century global warming and the that and a lot of it's a hoax. >> it's a hoax. i mean, it's a money making industry. okay >> but it appears science denial has been going on a long, long time. well before ron desantis or donald trump in his latest book, the parrot and the igloo, new york times best selling author david lipsky explores how science denial became an ingrained part of american life. joining us live now to talk about his book just coming out on paperback writer and journalist david lipsky. david, thanks for your time, christine. >> thanks for inviting me. it's great to be here. >> yeah, congrats on the parrot in the igloo. described as simultaneously captivating and disturbing. so of course i'm intrigued. but what's behind so

much of life? >> what's behind the title? i think i think one of the hard things for americans in dealing with this is that when we have a problem, we tend to exaggerate on both sides. so that in the 50s this is a very old issue. the times said that once warming started, you would have parrots in the antarctic. and then in the early part of our century, in 2009, uh, a denier republican senator named james inhofe, he built an igloo on the washington mall after a very strong snowfall and said, hey, we're building igloos that we're not going to have climate change. and i think one of the hard things for us as people is that when both sides are exaggerating, we tend to not listen anymore. >> right? and that, i think, is what you're really trying to explore in this book. right. that's both frightening and humorous. so you say we've been denying science for a long time. can you give us some examples, well, the thing the weirdest thing for us, there was a very organized denial movement. and generally the fascinating thing about how this issue played out in america and then worldwide is

there were just 24 people, basically, who did all the work and the same people who were paid basically to deny climate change. you, they like their rookie season. their preseason was denying on cigarets. you could even get the same people. do you remember reverend moon? the moonies, the same. i'm old enough. >> i'm old enough. yes. >> no. come on. they're still around, but you could get the same scientists. everyone knows that when we hear scientists saying something, we're like, hey, that must be true. so, moon, reverend moon would pay scientists to come on and say. reverend moon is not leading a cult. and the same two scientists, the two main leaders of the climate denial movement, they were brought out to say, reverend moon is a. okay, so one of the amazing things, if you ever doubt what you can do as an individual, basically, really just about ten people stalled all action on this in america for about 20 years. >> can you kind of give us some more concrete example of the tactics and how they went about it? and why it was so easy for

people to buy in? >> well, because they would make up their own numbers so they would get gallup in 1992 when this issue was really building. one of the deniers hired gallup to do a poll and then he mis summarized the results. so what the poll actually said was that two thirds of all climate scientists believe this was happening. now and so he fudged the math and said, 19 of them aren't sure about the exact date . and so he went out with that. when people say when people see gallup saying that only 20% of the people uh, the people who are most responsible for this believe in it, then they will accept those findings. gallup tried to chase the number for years, saying this number is wrong and they could never stop it. even as late as 2007, you would have uh- denial newscasters saying the latest, the latest poll show that only 20% of scientists believe this is happening. and then the public affairs officer of the american geophysical union would write afterwards saying that is not the truth. at the time, it

was 66. now it's 6,097, boy. >> and that was before. that was before social media, too. david, can you imagine? no exactly. >> it's just, when there's only one media, if the wrong if the wrong story gets around, it's very hard to chase it down. there's that famous mark twain quote that, that the lie goes all the way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoelaces. in the case of climate change, it's while the truth is still looking for its shoes and trying to find its phone and keys. >> yeah, you you really did, you know, look at also the denial that went on with tobacco. right. and the risk from that and between that and the climate denial like what is it the bottom of it. is it money? is that the motive? is that the driver like who's doing the denial? >> that's such a christian. that's such a great question for, so the same the same tactics and again, the same people were used. so what you just say is the results aren't in and we have to do more study. it's like, let's say people, let's say in your family you

want to go away for vacation. if you really want to go on vacation, your friend or your partner will say, yeah, let's book the flights. but if you don't want to do it, you say, well, we've got to check the finances and let's keep looking into it. let's go online and see what the top ten destinations are. and if you keep researching, then suddenly it's too late to actually book flights. that is the basic way that people find to stop action on issues like tobacco or climate. you just say more research is needed. >> i know, but why are those people doing all that? like who is it? is it money in their pockets? >> oh, in that case, oh, sorry. in that case, the tobacco companies paid them and the tobacco companies had to settle with 48 states. attorney general wants to say, hey, we're paying you. we're paying you a monetary penalty. and we're also going to post all our records online. so everyone can see how this was done. same kind of thing, especially coal, because coal is the first on the firing line. and actually the kind of the most polluting. but to me, kristin, as i looked at this more and i wonder if you've noticed this as a newscaster, here's the fascinating thing for me, and it's part of what the

book is about. by 1979, president carter had been warned by the national academy of sciences. this is going to happen. as scientists, we've looked at this. if the carbon dioxide release continues, we find no reason to believe climate change will not result and no reason to believe those changes will be negligible. that will be 45 years ago. this summer and we have not done anything. so the fascinating thing to me in getting to write this great story and getting to research it, is that the denial, the denial movement, was kind of dead by, let's say, 2015 even really about 2012. and so what it's forced us to look at, and it's a very funny, interesting thing to see, is that we don't want to do it. at the moment, the denial movement is everybody watching this and pretty much everybody in politics, we have decided to put on very solemn faces and to nod very deeply when the issue comes up. but everybody can feel now that we've decided just to roll the dice. >> okay, so, david, you're not leaving me feeling very optimistic. troc are you

feeling? i mean, after you research all this, what is your thought about what can be done at this point? >> here's what i'm optimistic about. we know who we are now and often. have you found this in your family life? often if you sit down and you say, look, we're not going to be asked about this anymore, here's how we're actually approaching this. i think that can be a really optimistic moment. so the scientists last summer, when this when the weather was so horrible in a way that absolutely verified this, people could feel it in the way that their deodorant was wearing out before 3:00 in the afternoon, what they really felt was now action will come. and then the scientists i've been speaking with for the last ten months, since last summer, they now realize that there's a good chance that nobody will do anything, that we have decided just to see what happens. and i think there's something great about people not saying, oh, we're going to be solemn about this, but actually saying, so far we've done nothing. and here's our approach to it now, and let's kind of stop pretending that we're doing things that we aren't. i am

optimistic about that. it was fascinating to see on the faces of the scientists this hard look, which is, yeah, we can't count on politics anymore. >> well, i guess being honest and, you know, that's the first time. >> christine, christine, you've seen those movies where the hero and the, the two heroes are like, we're surrounded. no one's going to come to our aid. yeah, and then they can act. if you keep waiting for something to come, right, you'll just sit there and you'll be swamped. all right, david lipski. moment. >> sorry. we're out of timethe parrot in the igloo.

could be the busiest we've seen in nearly two decades. about 43.8 million people are expected to travel at least 50 miles from home between thursday, may 23rd and may 27th. that is a 4% increase over the same period last year. for you. last minute planning planners looking to get away here are some tips and

savings. katie nastro, a travel expert with going.com. hey katie, good to see you. >> good to see you. >> wow. so americans are really into traveling right now right? i mean, the numbers we've seen this year so far have been crazy. >> they sure are. and look, only looking at the last four months of 2024, we've seen more people traveling in those months compared to last year. and in 2019, april, for example, just april alone was the highest recorded tsa numbers for april and april on record. it beat out 2023 by 6. so you know, if we are anticipating that this summer is going to be busy, you know, we have the proof to back it up. and memorial day, you know, with the estimated amount of people looking to hit the skies and the roads, it's looking to be one of the busiest memorial days in the last 20 years. >> okay, so where are the most popular destinations? and then separately from that, katie,

where are the destinations? where are you finding good deals right now? >> right. so a lot of people are looking to sort of take advantage of sun and island lifestyle before sort of that hurricane season. so we're seeing a lot of people head to places like the virgin islands, the dominican republic, like sort of that area of the caribbean. but for those of us who haven't sort of made our plans yet, you don't want to wait until the absolute final hour the day before to hope and pray that a deal is going to fall in your lap. you know, flexibility is going to be your best friend at this point. and consider some domestic locations. so our team at going found the following deals that are available still now over the holiday weekend 115 round trip to la. you can see some family and friends. 179 round trip to miami. you can hit south beach, get that sun in sand or you know. yeah. oh yeah, that's a six hour flight. >> yeah. >> oh yeah. you know, you have

to be a little bit flexible with your dates, but you can definitely make it work as well as 287 over to chicago. you know, this is actually a really great time to take advantage of chicago. the weather is finally warmed up. and i always suggest take that architectural river tour. you will not regret it. it is so much fun and educational for all ages. well, whether it's a memorial day weekend or maybe looking to the summer right? >> have airlines cut back. i mean, we've reported a lot about boeing's struggles. is that impacting flights right now or volume or how many planes are out there? >> that's a great question. and it's definitely on everybody's mind. but the good thing about that situation in particular is that it's not looking like schedule cuts and sort of route trimmings are going to affect a lot of summer flights. so we can sort of breathe easy there and still look towards the summer to make those summer trip plans. if you haven't already got it. >> okay, for those of us in the san francisco bay area market, which includes san jose, oakland

, are there new things that we need to know about, whether it's routes or perhaps airlines, discount carriers, things that could really help us save some money this summer, right? >> you know, so a lot of folks are looking to go over the pacific this year. you know, we're still seeing, you know, a lot of demand for international travel. but noticeably, we've seen an increase in demand for places like asia and so, you know, from the bay area, one of the carriers that you can take advantage of is zip air. you know, trying to find a cheap flight over the pacific to asia can often be sort of challenging, especially coming out of the pandemic when a lot of flights got cut and a lot of those routes, you know, sort of dried up. but we are seeing more and more capacity coming back. and that low cost carrier, zip air can definitely afford you a more affordable flight to get over to the pacific. if that's in the cards for you this year. >> all right, katie nastro with going.com. you always have such great tips. thank you so much.

>> thanks so much for having me. and have a safe and hopefully great and fun travel weekend. this memorial day.

around the bay area. world news tonight with david muir is next. and i'll see >> david: breaking news, the graphic video emerging of sean diddy combs appearing to assault his then girlfriend. in kentucky the world's number one golfer arrested. the u.s. economy tonight, the new record set in the stock market.