[ cheers and applause ] >> byron: tonight -- >> this is our god! >> karl lance. the one-time pastor of the controversial hillsong church nyc, known for his rock-star looks, high-energy sermons, and celebrity followers like justin bieber. what was really happening behind the pulpit? >> i say recovering drug addict. recovering sex addict. >> byron: the infidelity that nearly cost him his family. >> why couldn't you keep it in your pants? >> byron: he and wife laura speaking out for the first time.

what was the lowest point for you? >> the lowest point was -- can i talk about that? >> byron: the surprising reason she stayed. what do you day to those people who maybe say, i'm done with this guy, i can't trust this guy? this special edition of "nightline," "karl wlents: after hillsong" will be right back. purina cares here.

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>> byron: good evening. thank you for joining us. adultery, betrayal, secrets. part of the human condition since the beginning of time. if you live long enough, you've likely experienced it or loved someone who has. tonight, a look at all three through the eyes of a very public couple who experienced all three in a very public way. carl lentz was once one of the most popular preachers in america. this evening he's just like a lot of us. as the old saints would say, a sinner standing in the need of prayer. >> how are you? >> good, how are you? >> good. good to see you. >> byron: from rock star pastor to regular parishioner -- ♪ carl lentz's road to redemption is steep, long, and far from over. from boyhood to manhood -- ♪

sunday service, both sacred and sane. >> y'all understand what i'm saying? >> byron: today, it's his soul in need of salvation. there's a saying that power and money and prestige don't change who you are, it reveals who you are. it's true? >> money and influence revealed that i was a broken guy that had some serious flaws that i could function with for a long time. until you couldn't. >> correct your course and keep you closer to the shepherd! >> byron: for a decade he espoused and shouts salvation to others. >> if you've got any reason for thankful tonight -- >> byron: thousands at a time. he was lead pastor of hillsong nyc. >> this is our god! left to the right, let's check it out tonight, spirit! >> byron: not just one of the most famous mega churches in america, hillsong, the brand, was one of the fastest-growing, hippest, high-energy movements on earth. a diverse and youthful

congregation and celebrity dripped like jewel i. followers included actress vanessa hudgens, basketball star kevin durant, pop star justin bieber. >> i just want to love carl more. >> byron: carl lentz was all that -- until he wasn't. when his extramarital affairs made headlines, he was fired in 2020. done. >> celebrity pastor admitted cheating on his wife -- >> carl lentz was a prominent pastor at hillsong church until he was fired -- >> now the mega-popular church announcing an investigation into its new york city branch -- >> byron: the church itself embroiled in several controversieses as well. even to this day, carl lentz is still loathed by many online. how did you let it fall apart? >> my whole life? >> byron: yeah. why couldn't you keep it in your pants, keep it in control? >> it wasn't the prime area thing that got me in trouble.

it wasn't a sexual thing. it's not like i was out looking to have sex or looking to commit adultery. i had deep brokenness that manifested itself in a lot of different ways. >> byron: do you want to change? >> i'm changing. >> byron: tonight, carl lentz like you've never seen him before. >> and the truth is, i was digging my own grave. >> byron: the depths of his demons. recovering sex addict? >> recovering drug addict, recovering sex addict, sure. >> byron: wife laura sharing her darkest moment. what was the lowest point for you? >> i think the lowest point was -- can i talk about that? >> byron: and the reasons she decide to stay. in the mid-2010s, carl's public profile reached its peak, extending all the way to hollywood, baptizing justin bieber. >> there was a night where he wanted to renew his faith, he wanted to get baptized again. one of the most powerful things i've been a part of. >> byron: pastor lentz popping up on talk shows like "the view." >> you really don't look like

any pastor i've ever seen. >> byron: interviews with oprah. >> i don't believe in some ambiguous, like the wind blew and you're like, oh, the holy spirit. i believe there's -- >> it's a thing, it's a power, it's a force. >> it's god moving in your life. >> byron: how did it hit you, being known as a celebrity preacher? >> you shrug your shoulders. it is what it is. you can't control what people call you. >> byron: did you hype it up with the muscle shirts and torn jeans and tattoos and brooklyn haircuts? >> i feel like that's who i was. >> it's a normal, cool body. we get to just slow down. we celebrate many different religions -- >> byron: i've caught up with him many times in the past decade, both at his church and home. as a christian living in new york, i sometimes attended hillsong when carl was pastor. when i look back to the first interview you and i did in 2014, so take a look. >> you can't fake who you are. you are who you are. >> byron: who are you? >> i love people.

>> byron: tell me what's up. >> i really want to have, you know, the same heart for people that jesus did. which is to not see what everybody else saw, but try to dig a little bit deeper. i feel like that's how i was reached. >> byron: was it fake? >> no, no, i'm not that good. that's crazy to look at that now. >> byron: what do you think about that guy now? >> man. i just was looking at myself, you have no idea what's coming down that highway. i think i was scared even there. i think i see it in my eyes there. just -- probably overwhelmed. >> byron: hm. so i hear you say is, at that time, your life maybe was already getting messy in private? >> yeah. for sure. >> byron: behind closed doors, carl lentz was spiraling. drugs? >> yep. >> byron: alcohol? >> no. no, never had a drinking issue. i was prescribed a drug to help with adhd that i used most of my

adult life. and towards the end of my life in new york, i started to abuse it really badly. >> byron: how many affairs were there? >> i'm definitely not going to get into numbers. i feel like it was more than one, and more that i got caught for. but laura's been through too much, my kids have been through too much, and i don't feel like it helps anything. it definitely was not an isolated incident. >> byron: are you a sex addict? >> i'm a guy that was involved in id fidelity. i definitely have addiction issues, almost across the board. sex addiction's never about sex, it's about trauma. it's about what trauma produces. sometimes it manifests itself in a sexual situation. >> byron: in november 2020, hillsong informing staff and members they'd fired carl after learning the extent of his indiscretions, citing several reasons, including moral failures. lentz writing online he was unfaithful in my marriage.

when did laura find out? how did she find out? >> two of my staffmembers came to get me to talk to me about what -- what they wanted to talk to me about, which was, "we've found some things, and we want to ask you about it." i need to tell laura. drove over to the church office and sat there and told her the truth, which still wasn't the whole truth. and that was the day it started to kind of unravel. >> byron: do you remember what you said to her? >> i said, "i've been unfaithful, and it's going to come out. i'm sorry." this sounds -- the tears in that moment were the most painful thing in my -- in my memory. you know, but nobody deserves that, you know. so i -- i'm, you know, forever sad about that. >> byron: i'm struck by how when you said it to her, you gave her the sanitized description of it. >> yep, yeah. well, when you are lying and you

get caught, your first instinct is, how much do i need to tell to make this work? >> byron: coming up, you've heard carl's story. now the scandal from his wife, laura's, point of view. >> that was probably like, what the -- like, i couldn't take any more. >> byron: the surprising reason she says she stayed, despite deep betrayal and heartbreak. how powerful is that, that someone you wounded could help rescue you? and inside carl and laura's new life. with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms. with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. but just ok isn't ok. and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that can rapidly relieve joint pain, stiffness, and swelling in ra and psa. relieve fatigue for some... and stop joint damage.

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i can't believe ava had that dress on the other day. >> i know. look at these. look at your mother. >> you had that on the other day. >> oh my gosh. you're so small. >> i'm also 23. >> byron: carl and laura lentz's love story began two decades ago in australia in their early 20s. >> that's so cute. >> cute, right? >> it was a fun wedding. >> byron: he claims that the first time he saw you, he called his mom and said he was going to marry you. >> uh-huh. >> byron: when did you know he might be the one? >> it took a bit longer than that. we dated, and then he'd come back from a trip to america. and he just seemed different. and probably three weeks in we said we loved each other. >> byron: carl was in bible

college at hillsong. laura, a born and bred aussie, had grown up in the church. after marrying, they quickly welcomed three children and devoted their lives to expanding hillsong, moving to america. describe in a sentence, if you would? >> i would say laura lentz is consistent, faithful, and steady. >> byron: describe him. >> strong. visionary. kind and loyal is what i would say the most. he's very loyal. >> byron: good word, loyal. tell me about that day. when your world changed. >> i definitely went straight into shock. but i was, like -- it was a -- it was a big -- a big shaking for me. because i just -- i had no idea. >> byron: no idea? >> no idea. >> byron: none whatsoever? >> when he said the words that he said, i just -- broke down.

it felt like just wave after wave, just being hit. >> byron: which emotion was first, strongest? >> confused. and then sad, broken. shattered. these would be my words. >> byron: what was the lowest point for you? >> i had to hear some things that i hadn't heard or didn't know. and that was -- that was probably like what the -- like, i just couldn't take any more, you know? that's the thing with betrayal. the trauma of that is very, very hard to understand unless you're in it and have experienced it. i would look at other people and be like, i would never stay if this happened to me. but it's very different when you're in it. >> byron: how close did you come? >> one of my betrayal therapists, she asked me, do i have a lawyer? "do you have your own bank accounts?" all of that. so i set up all of that.

i had to look after myself and my kids. >> byron: with most of her family and friends a world away in australia, laura felt alone, untethered. >> i was angry at god for a really long time. i had dedicated my whole life to other people. to the church, to my family, to my husband, to everything. you know, i felt lost. i had no voice. i didn't know what i felt. my whole life had been like that. like, i'm easy-going, nothing really bothers me, whatever you want to do, that's fine. that was how i lived. i didn't know how to say what i needed. and that took even -- that takes work, even today, for me. >> byron: as for carl, there's no delicate way to put this. did you ever think about hurting yourself? >> yes, i did. i just felt like, there's no way i'm going to be able to spare my family ewe mill ation, and i definitely had some dark days. they call it suicidal ideation.

>> byron: carl says he went to rehab, addressed his mental health, for the first time faced a childhood trauma head-on. he had been molested as a boy. >> the molestation that happened to me when i was a little boy about 5 or 6 years old, altered my brain chemistry, altered my habits, altered my view of sex. and from that age till as long as i can remember, i had habits of secrecy and hiding and high risk-taking that i could never explain. >> byron: carl's revelation gave laura resolution, reason not to surrender but to fight. why did you stay? >> i stayed because -- thank you. sorry. i stayed -- because i loved we're on the phone with the therapist, and she was asking him some questions about his

childhood and some of that pain. and he started to talk and try to go through what happened, and he got to a point where he just stopped. and his whole body started convulsing. he just sobbed. and i realized then that there was so much more brokenness than i had known. >> byron: so what i hear you say in part is that in that moment, you thought that maybe -- i may not be married to a bad man, he may just be a broken man? >> yes. very broken. >> byron: the hurt nor the headlines were over. a woman who worked for the family alleging sexual abuse and manipulation by carl. something he denies. >> with all that is within me, i say that that account is wrong. it's not true. >> byron: in 2022, "the christian post" obtained an internal review of hillsong conducted by an outside firm.

the review included interviews with staffers who claim carl abused his power. there have also been headlines about former members of your staff and volunteers claiming you treated them in such a way that allegedly caused some of them to suffer mental illness and have low self-esteem? >> i don't know those people. it's hard for me to speak to those situations. if i were to sit down and talk with these people, and if my actions, if my leadership hurt them in any way, i'd love to apologize for it. >> byron: they addressed their departure from the church in the fx documentary, "the secrets of hillsong." carl's indiscretions the tip of a larger iceberg that threaten the controversial church to this day. >> you know, church can be a phenomenal blessing in people's lives, or it can be a sledgehammer of pain. >> byron: now far from the spotlight, they're rebuilding and restoring their lives along the arkansas river. in tulsa, oklahoma. >> we needed to be in a place where we could all grow and stay

on a really consistent, sober, calm, patient pace. i would say our marriage has gone through a couple stages. the one we're in now, we call it our second marriage. because i'm not the same person, she's not the same person. >> there's no secrets. there's no anything hidden. >> byron: you trust him again? >> yeah. >> byron: what do you say to those people who maybe say, ah, i'm done with this guy, i can't trust this guy? what say you? >> i say, that's okay. i think everyone has to do what is right for them. so i don't judge anyone on their own journey and how they feel about him, about us, about our story. i think you -- sometimes you might have to go through some really dark, deep days or seasons or chapters. and you can either flick that page and start again, or you just shut the book, you know? and i think we chose to flick

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>> byron: and finally tonight, carl lentz has started a podcast, "lights on." he and his wife, laura, hope their ongoing journey can help others. for them, their faith and mental health care are vital. as a therapist once told me, we're all having a hard time, we all could use a little coaching, help, accountability, and grace. that's "nightline" for this evening. thanks for the compaamica. good night.