>> announcer: "this week" with george stephanopoulos starts right now. >> martha: the first debate. >> mr. president, how is the debate prep going? >> martha: joe biden and donald trump prepare for an historic rematch. >> i'm not underestimating him. i assume he's going to be a worthy debater. >> martha: with new rules after the chaos four years ago. >> all right. gentlemen -- no. mr. president. mr. president, as the moderator -- >> martha: this morning, what's at stake, and what to expect in this unprecedented moment. presidential historians jon meacham and doris kearns goodman, plus frank luntz breaks

it down. plus, policy push. >> i refuse to believe we have to walk we from being an american. >> martha: new immigration protect protections over the battle over the border continues. the latest on that and response from democratic senator elizabeth warren. plus analysis from our powerhouse round table. and -- >> it's extremely hot outside. >> it's been like torture in here. >> martha: summer kicks off with record heat, floods, and deadly wildfires. is this the new normal? science educator bill nye on extreme weather scorching america. >> martha: good morning, and welcome to "this week." we are now just four days away from a critical general election debate that could have

implications for the 2024 race. the campaigns this week are a study in contrast. president biden with no public campaign events at all as he hunkers down at camp david with advisers in full debate prep mode. meanwhile, former president trump hit the trail in d.c. and philadelphia saturday saying his campaign events are his debate prep. >> my strategy is very simple. make america great again. that's all, because our country's going to hell, and we're going to turn it around fast. there's no strategy. we're going to turn it around fast, and i look forward to thursday. i know he's locked up in a log cabin someplace. you can imagine what he's doing. >> martha: with less than five months to election day, the campaign battle lines are becoming more stark. at a private fund-raiser this week, president biden saying it's clearer every day the threat trump poses would be greater in a second term than it was in his first term. and the two squared off this week on the key issue of immigration after biden's action

to provide protections for some undocumented spouses of u.s. citizens. >> the reason is simple. it embraces the american principle that we should keep families together. we can both secure the border and provide legal pathways to citizenship. >> martha: trump hitting back on the issue at his philly rally last night -- >> by this time next year, america borders will be strong, sealed and secure. they will be strong, sealed, and people will come into our country, but they will come in legally. >> martha: it's all leading to thursday night when the two men will stand together on the same stage for the first time since 2020. it's an earlier than ever debate that the biden campaign wanted with vice president kamala harris laying out what's at stake. >> joe biden and this debate will make clear the contrast. november of 2024 is binary, and when you look at the difference,

i would ask people to really imagine what the world will be like on january 20, 2025. >> martha: both sides will do their best to spin before and after, but it's clear this debate will feel different with the chaos of the first 2020 fall debate between biden and trump setting up the high stakes and new rules for this week's showdown. >> i'm not going to answer the question because -- >> why won't you answer that question? >> the question is -- >> the radical left -- >> would you shut up, man? >> martha: it was the debate that spiraled out of control. >> wait a minute. you get the final minute. >> it's hard to get any word in with this clown. excuse me, this person. >> martha: remembered not for policy discussions or laying out a vision for america, or even for a debate, but for moments like this. >> that was really a productive segment, wasn't it? keep yapping, man. >> the people understand, joe. >> they sure do. >> 47 years, you've done nothing. >> all right. >> martha: and personal insults like this.

>> and a lot more are going to die unless he gets a lot smarter a lot quicker. >> mr. president? >> did you use the word smart? you graduated either the lowest or almost the lowest in your class. don't ever use the word smart with me. >> martha: the first 2024 presidential debate between joe biden and donald trump now just four days away set to be very different from the chaos of four years ago. it comes at an earlier point than ever before, and weeks before either candidate will officially accept their party's nomination. >> is anybody going to watch the debate? [ cheers and applause ] >> martha: former president trump agreeing to parameters proposed by the biden campaign. the most significant difference, microphones will be muted throughout the debate except for the candidate whose turn it is to speak. after interactions like this four years ago. >> can i be honest? it's a very important -- >> try to be honest. >> he stood up --

>> no. the answer to the question is now. >> ukraine -- with a billion dollars -- >> sir, that is absolutely not true. you're going to have -- >> >> martha: and this -- >> he told us what a great job she was doing. he said we owe him a debt of gratitude for being so transparent with us, and what did he do then? he then did nothing. he waited and waited and waited. he still doesn't have a plan. i laid out back in march exactly what we should be doing. >> martha: also a change, no audie audience. in 2016 just days after the release of the now infamous "access hollywood" tape, trump spotlighted four women who had accused former president bill clinton of sexual assa assault. at a debate i co-moderated, his campaign wanted to seat them in his vip box, igniting a backstage fire storm, but they were in the hall that night and the audience overall was rowdy to the point of distraction.

>> in the first debate first debate -- >> the audience needs to duown here. >> it's awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in our country. >> because you would be in jail. >> secretary clinton -- >> we want to remind the audience to please not talk out loud. please do not applaud. you're just wasting time. >> martha: but in the final debate of 2020, the candidates had learned some lessons after their first debate of that year, although it was hardly a shining example of civility. >> you had eight years to get it done. now you're saying you're going to get it done because you're all talk and no action, joe. >> we got a lot of it done. we released -- we got 38,000 prisoners. >> you got nothing done. >> martha: and on that note, let's bring in our expert. s on the history and politics of

debates, jon meacham, author of the new book "the call to serve" and informal adviser to president biden on debate prep, presidential historian doris kearns goodwin, author of "an unfinished love story," and pollster and communications adviser, frank luntz. good morning to all of, and frank, i want to start with you. you've spent your career ringside at these debates for the last quarter century, studying voter reactions, but the trump toyodebates with hill clinton and joe biden have been like no others. >> not only have they been like no others, but that was the beginning of the end for a lot of people about democracy, and i have to be candid with you. i'm very nervous about the outcome of this debate. a lot of people are going to watch. a lot of people have made up their minds about the two candidates, but haven't made up their minds whether or not our democracy still works. if we have another reaction like

that first 2020 debate, where the two candidates just go at each other, at some point, our system breaks. our democracy comes undone, and so i'm going to be watching not just for the cute quip and figure out who won or lost, but i'm going to be watching american reactions and whether or not this adds to our discontent and our division, or whether it begins to heal it. >> martha: the subsequent debates he -- president trump did calm down in those debates, it wasn't like the first in 2020. so do you think he's learned any lessons after breaking all the china in it doesn't look like it. he doesn't look like he wants to change much. he said he doesn't have a strategy, and he's accusing joe biden of getting a shot in the arm and be jacked up during the debate. does that have you worried? >> it's how they treat ooeeach other. is it with respect or contempt?

is it wanting to listen and learn or wanting to abuse and attack? donald trump is the best at it. he is good at tearing apart his opponent, and the question -- the thing i'm going to be watching for is how joe biden responds because don't forget. it was joe biden who said to donald trump, would you just shut up? the idea that you would say that to a president of the united states in the national debate, that coarseness divides and underm undermines the sense of democracy being civilized and disciplined, and i just hope that both candidates remember that there actually are some things more important than an election, the next generation. >> martha: and doris, i would like you to look back on the history of debates. i know your book is about the '60s and that's when they began. >> absolutely. in fact, i think maybe this debate, because of the rules, that there's no interruptions, the mic will be turned off, there's no audience, it will look hopefully more like it did in 1960.

i mean, what i think about when i think about that debate is like biden, jfk prepared for days. he knew that he was the one who was not experienced. in fact, the worry in the 1960 debate for jfk was he was too young. he was too inexperienced. so just being up there on the stage with the vice president gave him a certain kind of stature in the same way nixon thought he was the far better debater, he didn't need to prepare, that he could just get up there because of his campaign rhetoric, but he didn't prepare how he looked and there was a sense of vitality, of jfk looking tanned, and nixon looking pasty and awkward somehow, and lacking confidence, and people thought, well, it didn't really matter. they debated each other, and the points were about equal, but something happened. something happened because jfk was seen on that screen. the next day the crowds were enormous. they quadrupled just by seeing him on television. this was, of course, the first televised debate, but the fun thing i remember and my husband remembers, he was so excited. he was in his 20s and he got on the plane afterwards and jfk was

having tomato soup and beer to relax and they were going over the debate analytically. what could i have done better? dick popped up and he said, we won. we won the election. it's over, and jfk, more experienced said to him, oh, no. we've got a lot more to go. we've got to get to sleep. there's next week and the week after. that will be true of this debate too. so much will come after this. >> martha: but what lessons do you think a bbiden and trump ha learned? you learned how worried frank is about this. how much do you think things will change in this debate? >> i really think the rules are going to make it easier for things to change. it may actually benefit trump because he can't interrupt because the mic will be turned off, and he might appear reasonable, and i think at the same point, biden has to be aware of the importance of vitality, physical strength, a mental strength for both of them. it's crazy we worried about youth in 1960 and age in 2024.

i think the rules with smart. america lost just as frank said in that last debate in 2020, and it was as if neither party won and we've got to get back to a civilized debate. we have to learn about the character of these characters. >> martha: and jon, i want to go to you. as you said, you have informally advising the president. how big a difference do you think that will make? >> i think it will be huge because it actually -- what president biden's done is he has successfully child-proofed the debate stage for former president trump who is responsible for this uncivil tone on the stage. let's be very clear here. this is not a both sides issue. martha, you've moderated debates with president biden -- vice president biden in them. there has been as daniel patrick moynihan pointed

defined dooeviancy down, and th is not president biden's fault, and i think what he has done is rendered a public service, he and his team in bringing some constraints to the debate to actually allow there to be a conversation that is not simply performative. american democracy is not a reality show, and donald trump has treated it that way for almost ten years now. so let's not -- let's not kid ourselves here. this is a vital election. both sides are not equally at fault. president biden seems to me, what he has to do is show that he is fully in command which i believe him to be, and remind us that there is a way in which the presidency should

operate, that is -- once dignified and decent, and delivers for the american people. >> martha: i think i know the answer to your next question -- to the next question then. i know you're advising biden, but if you were advising trump, what would you say? he needs independents. this is about getting votes. he needs moderates, but he is a hard guy to moderate, so what would you say? >> i think that may win the understatement of the week award. donald trump's hard to moderate. i don't think president trump would welcome my counsel, but i think you just answered the question. if he can begin to show that perhaps his illiberal, anti-democratic impulses are, in fact, in check, then perhaps that reaches people. i have to say -- look. i'm not a democrat. i'm not a republican. i voted for candidates of both parties.

i have a personal -- as does everyone here -- devotion to as i may, the constitution, the constitutional order that doris has written about so beautifully for so long. that's what's at stake here. it's not just a set of policies here and policy there. this is not about marginal tax rates at this point. it's about which vision of america, and a vision of america where we are, in fact, pursuing a more perfect union, or is it about conceding that one party, one interest, one man should be in control of everything? and it's not a choice that we faced before. >> martha: jon, i -- >> let's be very clear. >> martha: we're running out of time a little bit and i want to get to obviously what will be a big elephant in the room, and frank, i want to start with you.

age. that is a key thing at this debate for both of them. >> it is, and the key is, does biden demonstrate that he's got the enthusiasm, the commitment for the next four years? i think it's very dangerous, and i'm not a historian. i'm only a pollster, but my job is to listen to the american people, and i think that they are looking for the individual who's going to improve their quality of life, who's going to address issues particularly affordabi affordability, and immigration, and they want to know that they've got someone who's on the job 24/7 for them, so for us to define it, i don't believe that's accurate. voters are going to come to a very different conclusion than the pundits and what i'm afraid of is that voters see one thing on thursday

pundits see something completely different enhancing that division, that frustration, that feeling that our democracy is coming apart. >> martha: okay. i want to thank all of you and we will all be watching and we'll talk to you afterwards. be sure to tune in thursday evening for special coverage of the first presidential debate. i'll join david muir and our entire political team starting at 8:00 p.m. eastern for the abc news special "race for the white house" followed by the cnn presidential debate simulcast right here on abc, and we should note that abc will host the second presidential debate on september 10th moderated by david muir and linsey davis. up next, president biden takes new action on immigration. we'll talk to senator elizabeth warren about that, and the latest from the campaign trail. we're back in two minutes. (man) every time i needed a new phone, i had to switch carriers... (roommate) i told him...at verizon, everyone can get the best deals, like that iphone 15 on them. (man) switching all the time...it wasn't easy.

(lady) 35! (store customer) you're gonna be here forever. (man) i know. (employee) here is your wireless contract. (man) do i need a lawyer for this? those were hard days. representative. switch! now that i got a huge storage and battery upgrade... i'm officially done switching. (vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone, any condition. guaranteed. (man) i really wished you told me sooner. (roommate) i did. feeling sluggish or weighed down? could be a sign that your digestive system isn't at its best. but a little metamucil everyday can help. metamucil's psyllium fiber gels to trap and remove the waste that weighs you down... so you can lighten every day the metamucil way.

[♪] your skin is ever-changing, take care of it with gold bond's age renew formulations of 7 moisturizers and 3 vitamins. for all your skins, gold bond. >> martha: a big pivot this week on immigration. the president taking executive

action that could potentially give half a million migrants in the country illegally citizenship. it came after his decision just weeks ago to significantly limit asylum claimed at the border. abc's matt rivers has the details. >> reporter: this week, president biden at the white house taking steps to address one of the election's biggest issues, immigration, announcing sweeping brprotections for half million undocumented immigrants. >> for those wives of children who have lived here for a decade or more, this will allow them to file for paperwork for legal status in the united states, and will allow hthem to remain with their families in the united states. >> reporter: the republican national convention, former president trump attacking biden's move. >> under this program, a deluge of illegals will be given immediate green cards and put on the fast track to rapid citizenship. >> reporter: instead, pitching a

different approach to solving the nation's immigration crisis. >> our country is under invasion. we should not amnesty. we should be talking stopping the invasion instead. >> reporter: while biden's announcement provides new protections for immigrants already living in the u.s., it comes just two weeks after a separate executive order that severely limited asylum claims for those looking to enter the country. >> today i'm announcing actions to bar migrants who cross our southern border unlawfully from receiving asylum. >> reporter: both orders come as biden tries to shore biggest electoral weaknesses. our latest abc found more voters trust donald trump on the border by 17 points. >> it was the strongest border security agreement in decades, but then republicans in congress, not all of them,

walked away from it. why? because donald trump told them to. >> reporter: for "this week," matt rivers, abc news. >> martha: our thanks to matt, and i'm joined now by senator elizabeth warren, a member of the biden campaign's national advisory board. good morning, senator warren. >> good morning. >> martha: you were harshly critical of the president's actions earlier this month on the border. this move you have lauded him. so does that make you less concerned about asylum restrictions? >> look. we have a real problem, and we need security at the border. we need financial support for all of the places that are now housing migrants and supporting them, and we need a pathway to citizenship for people who are here, for spouses, for dreamers, for essential workers, for people who serve in our military, for people who come to school here and want to help make this a stronger country.

we need all three pieces, and the only way we get those is through congress and through negotiation. right now, joe biden is using the tools available to him to try to do as much as he can, but keep in mind there was a deal that had been hammered out, and my view -- it only had part of what was necessary, but it was a bipartisan deal, and we were just two days short of voting on it when donald trump said, no, and the republicans walked away. >> martha: senator -- >> the reason donald trump said no is because he thought it would help him in the election if he could stir up more division and chaos at the border. >> martha: let's talk about president biden. i know he wanted that immigration bill to pass, that bipartisan -- but there have been more than 6.9 million apprehensions at the southern border thus far in biden's term. there were just over 2 million in donald trump's entire term. what did the president do wrong?

>> this isn't about what the president did wrong. remember, on the very first day that he was sworn into office, president biden asked congress both for the resources and for comprehensive immigration reform. the republicans blocked it, blocked it, blocked it, blocked it. >> martha: donald trump didn't have that either, senator. he didn't have that either, and there were 2 million during his entire term. >> until last fall, the president tries to deal with the problem that is presented to him. he can't deal with it if congress and the republicans continue to block him, and so the president is using the tools available to him both to create border security, but he doesn't have the resources because the republicans are blocking access. >> martha: but he is president -- understood. i do think you've made your point, but poll after poll as matt rivers just pointed out, say that this is a very weak

poll number for president biden. trump surpasses him by 17 points in trust and working the border. >> i understand that, and i understand that the president is doing what he can with the resources available to him, but you know as well as i do that he can't manufacture more judges. he can't manufacture more guards if congress doesn't give him the resources to do that. you know, the president is out there doing everything he can, not just at the border, but overall for families, and the action he took in this last week is exactly joe biden being joe biden. think for just a minute about what it means for half a million families, that little kids go off to school in the morning, and they don't have to worry about whether or not mom or dad is still going to be part of their family when they get home.

>> w . >> martha: what about the border that you were so concerned about a couple of weeks ago? the first question i asked you, are you less concerned now? >> no. i am concerned about what's happening at the border and i am concerned that the president, because of donald trump and the republicans, does not have the resources that he needs in order to be able to provide as much help at the border. he's doing what he can with the resources he has available. you know, for me, this is about the contrast between the two. donald trump has said, block congressional action because he wants more chaos at the border. he wants as much division as possible in this country. he wants to turn us against immigrants who are here, who help support this country, who make it stronger. donald trump is doing everything he can to advance donald trump and to undercut the united states of america. >> martha: okay, senator. i want to -- >> he's taking the resources available and trying to keep our nation knitted together and

trying to give us border security and a pathway to citizenship. >> martha: senator, i want to move to abortion. >> of course. >> martha: tomorrow marks the two-year anniversary of the dobbs decision. since that ruling, 21 states now ban or restrict abortions earlier in pregnancy that the standards set by roe. even if joe biden is re-elected, is this really going to change? >> yes, it will change. we need three things. we need access to abortion. we need access to contraception, and we need access to ivf. the republicans have blocked all three. they have laid out their plan to say they're not going to permit women to have those three, and have access to them. the democrats are fully on board. if we have the trifecta, the house, the senate, and the white house, they're we are going to make roe versus wade law of the land again, and with joe biden in the presidency rather than donald trump, we will have as

much protection for women as humanly possible. understand this. i want to say this as clearly as i can. if donald trump is elected to the presidency, he and the extremist republicans are coming after abortion, contraception, and ivf in every single state in this country, not just the red states. not just the purple states. every state in this country. they've laid out their blueprint, and they're coming for everyone. >> martha: senator, i want to end on this debate that is very important on thursday. just quickly if you could, what are you expecting? you were on a debate stage with president biden before. >> mm-hmm. joe biden is going to be joe biden, and that means he's going to draw the contrast. he'll be out there for working families. he's going to say $35 insulin and 30 million people have seen their student loan debts canceled. he's going to talk about getting rid of junk fees and how his administration is going after the price gougers at the oil

pump and the grocery store, and that's the contrast with donald trump who's been out there telling his -- his words, rich as hell donors, that if they will just give more money to his campaign, then he's going to cut taxes for billionaires, for oil companies, and for the very price gougers that right now are picking americans' pockets. >> martha: a yes or no question -- do you expect it to be -- >> it's about who you fight for. joe biden fights for working families. he fights for women to have freedoms. he fights for our democracy. donald trump fights for billionaires -- >> martha: senator, i feel like i'm moderating a debate. senator, thank you for that, but i just -- very quick question. chaos or not chaos? >> i've lost you. i can't hear you. >> martha: okay. we'll leave it at that, and we'll leave it to our to talk about that again after

the debate. thanks again for joining us. appreciate it. we're right there at the end. up next, the powerhouse round table takes on thursday's debate. we'll be right back . money manager) how so? (fisher investments) we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client'' best interest. (fisher investments) so we don't sell any commission-based products. (other money manager) then how do you make money? (fisher investments) we have a simple management fee, structured so we do better when our clients do better. (other money manager) your clients really come first then, huh? (fisher investments) yes. we make them a top priority, by getting to know their finances, family, health, lifestyle and more. (other money manager) wow, maybe we are different. (fisher investments) at fisher investments, we're clearly different. t-mobile has plans built just for you. like two lines of unlimited for just $30 bucks a line. ...that's a 45 percent savings versus verizon and at&t! so switch to t-mobile and save. type 2 diabetes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone. ♪ ♪ i got the power of 3. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people

reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. i'm lowering my risk. adults lost up to 14 pounds. i lost some weight. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. gallbladder problems may occur. tell your provider about vision problems or changes. taking ozempic® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase low blood sugar risk. side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. living with type 2 diabetes? ask about the power of 3 with ozempic®. wanna know a secret? more than just my armpits stink. facts. that's why i use secret whole body deodorant for clinically proven odor protection everywhere. so i smell great all day, all hike, and all night.

secret whole body deodorant. t-mobile has plans built just for you. like two lines of unlimited for just $30 bucks a line. ...that's a 45 percent savings versus verizon and at&t! so switch to t-mobile and save. on medicare? have diabetes? with the freestyle libre 3 system you'll know your glucose and where it's headed no fingersticks needed. covered by medicare for more people managing diabetes with insulin. visit freestylelibre.us/medicare

>> martha: the powerhouse round table is all here ready to go. we're back in a moment. weathertech products are designed and manufactured in america using only american raw materials. most competitors make things seven thousand miles away... and then wonder why they don't fit. with weathertech in your vehicle you may hear angels singing as you marvel, how do they do it? simple. american technology and american workers deliver quality... not imported junk for a few bucks less. get the world's best floorliners and support america. find your fit at wt.com (♪) t-mobile has plans built just for you. like two lines of unlimited for just $30 bucks a line. ...that's a 45 percent savings versus verizon and at&t! so switch to t-mobile and save. i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein! those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. -ugh. -here, i'll take that. woo hoo! ensure max protein,

30 grams protein, 1 gram sugar, 25 vitamins and minerals. and a new fiber blend with a prebiotic. (♪) [♪] your skin is ever-changing, take care of it with gold bond's age renew formulations of 7 moisturizers and 3 vitamins. for all your skins, gold bond. you are bountiful. your skeleton can support two times your weight. it's in your nature to stand strong. supplement your bones with high-absorption magnesium. nature's bounty. it's in your nature. when you over do it... undo it, with the pepto that's right for you. ♪ pepto has berry fast melts ♪ ♪ cherry chewables ♪ ♪ liquicaps ♪ ♪ that make relief easy. ♪

♪ ♪ pepto bismol. ♪ pick your pepto. t-mobile has plans built just for you. like two lines of unlimited for just $30 bucks a line. ...that's a 45 percent savings versus verizon and at&t! so switch to t-mobile and save. >> martha: be sure to tune in

thursday night right here on abc, but first, let's bring in our powerhouse round table. former rnc chair and former trump white house chief of staff, reince priebus, former virginia congresswoman, barbara comstock, npr correspondent asma khalid, and vivian salama. welcome to all of you and elizabeth warren could got hear me. i kept trying to interrupt me. she couldn't hear. apologies to her for that last exchange. reince, i want to turn to you. speaking of exchanges and moderating and interrupting people and all that, you helped prep donald trump in 2016 for the debate. you were in there and sort of their version of mock debates, and informally in 2020. first of all, did he follow your advice? second what do you think is going to happen now? >> well, he did. it was actually -- it was not the donald trump you may think of all the time. he was listening. we worked with him, but he's

also just -- he's naturally combative, and he's learned a lot, i think, over the years. so what i think -- >> martha: what about 2020? what about that debate? >> well, i think 2020 -- i think an incumbent -- here's the thing for incumbent presidents. coming back for the first debate historically, it's always been tough. i mean, you're used to hearing people tell you you're right. they're defending their policies because they're the staffers that put the policies in place, and now all of a sudden, you're being criticized 24/7, but i think, you know, sticking to the issues is going to be the key for president trump. being civil, i think is a key in this debate, and the third thing is to let joe biden talk because joe biden has two huge problems coming out of the gate. number one, so far in this election, he has not been able to articulate clearly what his

vision is. the second problem he's got is that the people out there, even if he could do that, they don't see a candidate that i think is capable of -- of achieving the vision even if he's able to articulate it just based on this whole competence issue, and it's plaguing him and it's plaguing the campaign. >> martha: and barbara, you were a nikki haley supporter, so what do you think has to happen here for trump to appeal to independents? what does biden have to do? >> well, i think what biden needs to do is he should just ignore trump and lhis antics an just talk directly to those swing voters and republicans who aren't going to support trump and calmly talk to them first about his record and the bipartisan success that he has, but also what he wants to do for the future, but he also needs to tell the american people that, you know, trump is a convicted felon, that he's somebody who has been adjudicated of sexual

assault, but also what he wants to do to women's health and all the concerns there that he's talked about. he also needs to tell them that he wants to pardon january 6th violent offenders. those people who beat, you know, the capitol policemen on january 6th. this is somebody who asked his own vice president -- >> martha: that trump. he wants to to point that out. >> that trump wants to pardon the january 6th offenders, and this is someone who asked his own vice president to violate his constitutional oath, and that's why his vice president isn't supporting him as well as many of his cabinet members including john kelly who has said, you know, the suckers and losers thing. >> martha: you've seen the polls. >> i know, but nobody has really talked -- these independents and people who don't -- who are still thinking about it, those are the people, the 6% in the six states who are the late deciders, they are -- they swing to more center-left.

they are women, and they are the people we know who don't like to support a convicted felon, who are very concerned about democracy, about the state of -- >> martha: and joe biden has made some gains. >> he has made inroads with them and they are very concerned that people don't support his own administration. those type of people who know he's a danger to democracy, and he won't support our allies. last night he was saying he won't stand with our nato allies. >> martha: asma, president biden is at camp david doing debate prep. tell us what you know about that debate prep, and does that ring true to you? that he will talk about those things? that will be his message? >> yeah. sources within the biden world have told me that really they see this as a moment to present a contrasting vision. they don't feel like voters have begun to really tune in, and you talk about an audience. i mean, the first debate in 2020 had over 70 million people who tuned in. so they are hoping to reach a

large swath of the american public on issues and they see a real contrast when it comes to issues like democracy and abortion, but fundamentally, i mean, they tell me they see this as an opportunity to present a contrasting vision of what america wants. i think it will be interesting as to what version of donald trump we see because i think in 2020, if you look at the two debates, they were very different donald trumps that you saw. a person familiar with the debate prep on biden's side told me that they anticipate they will see a more disciplined donald trump this time around, and biden is spending time reading and briefing, and just sort of familiarizing himself with what trump has been saying. they said he's not, you know, been paying attention to every donald trump rally and he needs to be briefed and reading on what donald trump is, you know, arguing he'll do on immigration, abortion, and whatnot. >> cnn is also working to try to enforce that discipline a little bit. they're going to be turning off the mics. >> martha: the mics will be turned off unless you're speaking. >> exactly. >> martha: they will literally be off unless you are the

candidate speaking. so what do you think that does to donald trump? he's already said, oh, this could be the most boring thing ever. no audience, you know, interaction. i would assume there's some interaction if it's allowed during that exchange, but again, talk about how you think donald trump will handle this. >> so contrary to president biden, donald trump and his campaign have told us that he's not preparing in the usual way. there's not going to be mock debates like he's done in previous cycles. he's going to be doing policy discussions. he's been briefed by different people including a number of senators, rubio, vance, and people who are his advis advisers. you tgo out there on thursday, and they're be on opposite ends of the stachbge, and there's no audie audience. they have rebuttals and they can lay into each other and that is where it will be most interesting. most interesting is this is

unself-incri unscripted. they have note cards, but they can't come with pre-prepped notes. they cannot talk to their a advisers during the breaks and that's interesting because notoriously we have seen president biden and former president trump when they're not using a teleprompter and not scripted, they tend to veer off of message, and so it will be interesting to watch how they handle that. >> martha: and reince, speaking from experience, often go after the moderators, and we've -- trump especially, speaking from experience, and i've done debates when biden was vice president as well. do you think that's a big point for him this time? we've already seen a little bit of trashing on the campaign trail about the moderators. >> well, i think trump has been effective on this issue from the beginning because he set the whole debate up as, i'm deciding

to do a debate on biden's terms. biden thought i wasn't going to do this debate. i decided i would do it even though we're going to do it on cnn who trump doesn't like. i'm going to do it in front of jake tapper. i'm going to do it with all these rules i don't like, but i'm going to do it on your terms. so he's already winning that battle. the reality is on all these issues was barbara was talking about, the refuge for donald trump is the issues. the more these issues are the -- this is why hispanics and young people and black americans and union workers that are going to speak at the republican national convention, it's because people are tired, and groceries are up and gas is up. plane tickets are up. >> martha: it's one of the things that frank luntz was talking about. voters are hearing something different than the pundits. >> and all these other issues, i'm sorry, barbara, they're not resonating. this is not the 1990s electorate. some people wish it was. it's not.

people are upset and they're angry, and trump is the antidote. >> martha: but i do think people will look for civility, and barbara, another thing we're looking for because donald trump said this week that his vp pick will likely be there. any thoughts on who that might be? >> i don't know that it's relevant because whoever it is, is going to just, you know, be whatever thing, whatever donald trump wants, and this is all about trump because it's a me, me, me, trump, you know, electorate. the base -- the trump base is always going to accept what he says. the election is going to be about those swing voters, and what they care about in that small group of states as frank luntz was pointing out. those people care about health care, not just -- not just abortion health care, but about, you know, trump has said he wants to repeal obamacare health care again without a replacement. he has not come up with any type of plans except, you know, things like tariffs on anything

which we know would raise taxes by 10% or more. so he doesn't have a plan and he's at these rallies and she's just talking about things, you know -- >> martha: i want to quickly give -- we have a minute left. heading into the debates, the polls have shifted. >> a little bit, yeah. >> martha: they have definitely shifted that biden has gained some polling? battleground states. >> mm-hmm. that's true, and i think we're seeing this a little bit of a bump after the trial, the hush money trial in new york. i still think there are some vulnerabilities that the president faces like on immigration in particular, the economy, inflation as well. i think part of the challenge though will be around this expectation. you've heard republicans really question whether or not biden is up to the rigors of the job, and when you set the bar so low, it creates a situation where if biden clears it, it makes it easier for him to clear it. everyone will be watching also for any sort of misstep or any gaffe on either side that can go

viral. >> martha: that's right, vivian, and we have ten seconds left. that really is what a lot of people will be watch sging. joe biden, age. >> joe biden, age, and the biden -- the trump people will be trying to emphasize that as much trying to portray him as someone who has no cognitive ability. >> martha: and seize on anything that happens. >> absolutely. anything that happens they're going to jump on it, but also reverse the biden team is going to try to paint trump as an unhinged felon. >> martha: up next, bill nye the science guy on the extreme heat hitting the country. we'll be right back.

did you know... 80% of women are struggling with hair damage? just like i was. dryness and frizz could be damaged hair that can't retain moisture. new pantene miracle rescue deep conditioner, with first-of-its-kind melting pro-v pearls... locks in moisture to repair 6 months of damage in one wash, without weigh down. guaranteed or your money back! for resilient, healthy-looking hair... if you know, you know it's pantene. if you spit blood when you brush, it could be the start of a domino effect. new parodontax active gum repair breath freshener. clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease. a new toothpaste from parodontax, the gum experts. (man) every time i needed a new phone, i had to switch carriers... (roommate) i told him...at verizon, everyone can get the best deals, like that iphone 15 on them.

(man) switching all the time...it wasn't easy. (lady) 35! (store customer) you're gonna be here forever. (man) i know. (employee) here is your wireless contract. (man) do i need a lawyer for this? those were hard days. representative. switch! now that i got a huge storage and battery upgrade... i'm officially done switching. (vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone, any condition. guaranteed. (man) i really wished you told me sooner. (roommate) i did. ♪ ♪ have you always had trouble losing weight and keeping it off? same. discover the power of wegovy®. ♪ ♪ with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. ♪ ♪ and i'm keeping the weight off. wegovy® helps you lose weight and keep it off. i'm reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only fda-approved weight-management medicine that's proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events in adults with known heart disease and with either obesity or overweight. wegovy® shouldn't be used with semaglutide or glp-1 medicines. don't take wegovy®

if you or your family had medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop wegovy® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may happen, including pancreatitis and gallbladder problems. wegovy® may cause low blood sugar in people with diabetes, especially if you take medicines to treat diabetes. tell your provider about vision problems or changes, or if you feel your heart racing while at rest. depression or thoughts of suicide may occur. call your provider right away if you have any mental changes. common side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. with wegovy®, i'm losing weight, i'm keeping it off. and i'm lowering my cv risk. that's the power of we. ♪ ♪ check your cost and coverage before talking to your health care professional about wegovy®.

life-threatening heat akros the country. >> the and it's just the beginning of what will be a sweltering swech. >> even right now wile we're standing in the shade, it's hard to find somewhere comfortable to get away from all of the heat. >> it is a scorcher once again. >> i-95, bakes today. we're talking four out of four on the scale we use to measure extreme heat. >> martha: some of the coverage across the country of the scorching summer heat hitting the nation. for more on what's driving the extreme weather and weathether new normal is with us now, i'm joined by science educator, bill nye. good morning, bill. it's so great to have you with us this morning. there are very few people watching us this morning who aren't experiencing sweltering heat. the same is happening around the world, flooding, wildfires. give us your read on that. is this the new normal? >> it's the beginning of the new

normal, with respect. so the latest -- the latest research is there's not a turning point or a tipping point or a knee in the curve. it's just going to get hotter and hotter and worse and worse and more and more extreme. so this is a taste of the normal of the future unless we, humankind, get to work and address it. >> martha: and let's talk about that. our ginger zee talks about climate change a lot, global warming. what do we need to do right now in your view? >> well, there's two things, everybody. i say this all the time. the first thing is talk about climate change. if we were talking with our families and friends and people we vote for about climate change, we would be much more inclined to do something about it, and then the other thing that i always say is vote. so we have a situation right now here in the united states where one side, one political party isn't acknowledging the problem let alone coming up with plan to do something about it.

furthermore, the other side is -- is kowtowing, is doing what the fossil fuel industry wants to do, and as it was said, it's hard for a man to change husband his mind when his income depends on not changing his mind. so everybody, we have a situation now where el nino is giving way to la nina, where there's a cooling in the pacific ocean which strangely enough leads to more hurricanes because there's less vertical sheer as we would say in the atlantic and furthermore, the atlantic is especially warm now. all this heat that we've trapped in the atmosphere has worked its way into the ocean. so we have a situation where we're going to have this extreme heat and these crazy heat domes, these high-pressure systems that don't move, and there are no clouds to reflect sunlight into space, and it gets hotter and

hotter and we're having these extreme weather events, big rain and wednesind coming in from th southeast to america, and this is everything going the wrong way at once. >> martha: if you, bill -- >> what we have to do, everybody, the stop putting carbon monoxide into the atmosphere. >> martha: if you meet with people who don't believe in climate change, don't believe in global warming, and there are a lot of them, what do you say to them? what do you say to them to convince them? >> so if i could convince people in one sitting, that would be fabulous, but that has proven quite difficult. you tell everybody, it takes -- it takes years for people to see the evidence, see the evidence, and the problem we have there climate change is we don't have a 9/11 or a pearl harbor. it's slow motion. so everybody that i speak with acknowledges that the climate is changing. just the -- the nudge that we

work on and people on my side of this is pointing out that humans are causing it, and we're doing it because we have been -- we have had -- created this wonderful quality of life for so many people by burning ancient carbon, ancient swamps, coal, oil, gas. we just got to stop doing that, and so there are many alternative sources of energy, but we have to work together to share it, and i'm talking about transmission lines and energy storage as well as developing more efficient renewable sources at the same time. better solar panels, better wind turbines, and this mythic thing that people are talking about is fusion, but that could -- it's decades away, but nevertheless, it's in the future. >> i want t >>. >> martha: i want to ask you. we have about 20 seconds here, but some advocates are pushing for president biden to declare a

national climate emergency. is that something he should do in you arer view? >> well, i don't know how well that would work. people who are already inclined to dismiss what he says will just be that much more dismissive perhaps. what we have do is get everybody to work together, so acknowledge that we have this problem, and as i say, i strongly believe that the united states has to lead the world. >> martha: okay. we're going to have to leave it right there. >> everybody working together. >> martha: it sure would. >> thank you though. >> martha: thank you so much for joining us this morning, bill. we'll be right back.

>> martha: that's all for us today. thanks for sharing part of your sunday with us, and tune in for full debate coverage here on abc thursday night. i'll see you then. have a great day.

♪ (ominous music) ♪ yes, ahh!! mom: what is going on with you? get out! andy! get out of my room! get out! mom: andy. fight! fight! i didn't say anything. yes you did. ♪ (ominous music) ♪ ♪ (ominous music) ♪ -[ dog whimpers ] ♪-i was walking ozzy past the millers, and he started freaking out. he's a retired bomb dog from the tsa. he definitely smelled some explosives inside. okay. thank you. we will take it from here. control, 7-adam-15 requesting bomb squad at 4312 moreland street.