>> usa! >> donald trump wins the new hampshire primary moving him closer to a re-match with

president joe biden, but nikki haley vows to stay in the race insisting she's more electable in november. >> this race is far from over. >> nikki haley, have you ever heard of her? i didn't know she was still campaigning. >> will the primary battle continue or has the general election. >> she doesn't have maga. >> bring it, donald. show me what you've got. >> republican presidential candidate nikki haley joins me exclusively this morning. plus blame game. a bipartisan border deal could be in jeopardy because former president trump opposes it. >> he doesn't want us to solve the border problem because he wants to blame biden for it. >> the only purpose of taking this up is giving democrats political cover to say, gosh, we would have secured the border. >> when you have an opportunity to make this country safer you take it. >> will election year politics kill the deal that would unlock

aid to ukraine and israel? i'll speak to democratic congresswoman alexandria ocasio cortez of new york. >> and $83.3 million. donald trump is ordered to pay millions in damages for defaming writer e. jean carroll. the decision comes one year after another jury found trump liable for sexually assaulting her and later defaming her. >> the whole thing is a scam. >> joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news washington managing editor carol lee. >> democratic pollster cornell belcher and republican strategist matt gorman. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the ♪♪ ♪♪ from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with kristen welker. good sunday morning. urgent talks are under way in the middle east as american-led negotiators close in on a deal in which israel would suspend

its war in gaza for about two months in exchange for the release of more than 100 hostages, that's according to "the new york times." cia director bill burns is in paris today meeting with israeli, egyptian and qatari officials. it comes as nbc news is reporting exclusively the biden administration is discussing using weapons and ammunition sales to israel as leverage to persuade the israeli government to scale back its military assault on gaza. officials tell nbc news the u.s. is considering slowing or pausing the delivery of weapons including artillery and precision-guided munitions to pressure the israelis to do more to protect palestinian civilians. all of it, the backdrop of a two-front campaign with a defiant nikki haley vowing to stay in the race for the republican nomination despite losses in iowa and new hampshire. the next big battleground, haley's home state of south

carolina where overnight she sharpened her attacks against former president trump. >> donald trump was totally unhinged. unhinged. he was a bit sensitive, and i think that it -- and i think his feelings were hurt and he threw a temper tantrum out on stage, seriously, threw a total temper tantrum and was talking about revenge. >> south carolina is still 27 days away, but haley's refusal to drop out may be getting under the former president's skin. he threatened this week anybody that makes a contribution to haley who he calls bird brain from this moment forth will be permanently barred from the maga camp. >> i'll tell you what, i feel sharper now than i did 20 years ago. nikki haley, have you ever heard of her? i didn't know she was still campaigning. she's still campaigning? she was just endorsed by liz

cheney. can you believe it? >> adding to the political drama, president biden has insisted the general election has already begun ask it comes as lawmakers on capitol hill are grappling with the border deal that seems to be on life support. last night in south carolina, president biden vowed again to shut down the border to secure emergency funding for ukraine as former president trump promised to stand in the way of any deal. >> if that bill were the law today i'd shut down the border right now and fix it quickly. the bipartisan bill would be good for america and help fix our broken immigration system and allow speedy access for those who deserve to be here. congress needs to get it done. >> i'd rather have no bill than a bad bill. i bad bill you can't have and that's what was happening in the house. >> joining me now is ambassador nikki haley. ambassador haley, welcome back to "meet the press".

>> thanks so much, kristen, for having me. >> we really appreciate your being here. as you know, former president donald trump has called on you to get out on this race. the rnc says it's time for republicans to unify around mr. trump. what is your response to this apparent pressure campaign against you? >> look, he can't bully his way through the nomination. i think it's not surprising that he is surrounded by the political elite, but let's keep in mind the political elite has gotten nothing done for us in stopping the wasteful spending, has gotten nothing done to secure the border, has gotten nothing done to keep us more safe as we see wars around the world and that's exactly when we don't want. the reason the political elite are upset and the members of congress are upset is because i've pushed for term limits and mental competency tests. i said if they don't get a budget out on time they shouldn't get paid. i've fought this political class

my entire life, and it's -- i much rather be fighting for the people than fighting for the elected officials in d.c. >> ambassador, do you think just going back to the rnc calling for party to unify around trump which happened during the new hampshire primary before the polls had even closed, do you think the rnc has been an honest broker in this case? >> i mean, clearly not. if you're going to go and basically tell the american people that you're going to go and decide who the nominee is after only two states have voted? 48 states out there. this is a democracy. the american people want to have their say in who is going to be their nominee. we need to give them that. you can't do that based on just two states and not only that, it's 1215 delegates to reach the nomination. donald trump has 32, i have 17. so let's let this play out and let's do what we need to. we saw south carolinians and we had 1500 people in greenville

county and americans want to be able to make this decision themselves. i don't think this is the place of the rnc to do it, and trump overstepped when he pushed them on do it and i think that's why he's had to back down and that was the right thing to do to back down. do you have actual knowledge and awareness that he pushed the rnc to do that and then pulled back? >> we know exactly the people that pushed it are his people, and i know that during the debates, he was pushing rana mcdaniel to stop the debates. he was calling her every other day and he's been pushing them to pay for his lawsuits and all of these other things, but at the end of the day, this is not about the rnc and this is not about the american people and the political party deciding who they want to be the nominee. when i ran for governor i was far from the nominee. i ran against the lieutenant governor, a congressman and state senator.

they did the same thing to me then, i won then and i'll win now. >> let's talk about the path forward. as you know, trump had a double-digit lead and he has the endorsement of top officials in your state. do you need to win south carolina, your home state, in order to win the nomination? >> well, let's first talk about the people he surrounded himself with in south carolina. yes, he got the endorsement of the governor and that's the same governor that i defeated when i ran for governor. yes, he got the endorsement of the political class in south carolina, but that's the same group that i forced to have to show their votes on the record and it's the same group they forced to pass ethics reform, and it's the same group i vetoed half a billion dollars of cut projects that i didn't think taxpayers dollars should go to. trump has become an insider. that's what it's come down to.

he's more interested in satisfying the elected class than he is in satisfaction the people. when it comes to south carolina, look, we want it to be strong and you look, we started with 2% in iowa. we ended up with 20%. we got to new hampshire and we needed to do better than that and we did. we got 43% of the vote and now we're going to south carolina and we need to be stronger than we did in new hampshire and it's certainly what we need to do. it's not that we need to be stronger, kristen. trump needs to be stronger. he's not getting the independent vote and a segment of the republicans and he's got work to do, as well. >> let me make sure we get an answer, though, this your home state. you were governor in the state of south carolina. do you need to win your own state in order to stay in this race? is it do or die? >> think i need to do better than i did in new hampshire. >> do you need to win, ambassador? do you need to actually win -- you need on do better, but don't

you need to win your home state to show that you can win a state, win your home state and really put some delegates on the map for yourself? >> we've got 17 delegates. he's got 32 and i would say that's pretty good to start. i need to show that i'm building momentum and i need to show that i'm stronger in south carolina than new hampshire. does that need to be a win? i don't think it necessarily has to be a win, but it certainly has to be better than what i did in new hampshire and it has to be close and that's when we're focused on. if we win, great, if not we need to narrow it along the way to give people in super tuesday states a reason to have us fight on. >> i hear you say you are in this regardless of the results in south carolina through super tuesday it sounds like. here's how "the wall street journal" editorial board is thinking about your campaign, if she can remain competitive there

is an argument for miss haley to stay in the race through the july convention and one of the cases against him can go to trial. if he's convicted of a felony, 42% of voters in new hampshire and caucus goyers said mr. trump would be unfit for the presidency. are you staying in this race in case donald trump is convicted of a crime, ambassador? >> i've never stayed in this race because of court cases. i don't know what all of the court cases are. i haven't paid attention what he's won, what he's lost and what he's fighting for and the first one came down and he spent a lot of time ranting about how he lost that court case, but the reality is every time he's talking about defending himself in court he's not talking about getting our economy back on track. he's not talking about closing the border. he's not talking about how we're going to get our kids reading again and he's not talking about law and order. these not talking about what the american people want.

just look at what happened in the 48 hours after the election. he was totally unhinged. went on a rampage election night talking about revenge, then the next day he goes and says anybody who supports me is not going to be allowed to be part of maga. well, that means those people that voted for me in iowa and new hampshire and those people who donated to me, really? you're going to say they're not in your club? you're supposed to be representing everyone and he pushes the republican party to make him the nominee? he's insecure and threatened. he sees what's happening and he knows these court cases will take him further and further away from the campaign trail and that's what he's worried about. >> you bring up the court cases. yes or no, are you in this race through the convention beyond super tuesday, yes or no? >> as long as i keep growing per state i am in this race. i have the intention of going to super tuesday through super tuesday, we'll keep on going and see where this gets us.

that's what we know we'll do right now. i take it one state at a time, i don't think too far ahead. i'm not going anywhere. >> let's talk about the court cases. on friday a jury ordered donald trump to pay writer e. jean carroll $83 million in damages for defamation and this was a year after a different jury found him liable for sexual abuse. you have said and you repeated here, maybe it's fair, maybe it's not. let me just ask you on the substance of the jury's ruling, should that be disqualifying to be president? >> i think the american people decide who should be disqualifying. it's the same thing with the rnc picking the nominee. we don't need take over anything that the american people have the right to do. i think that i've always said i think donald trump has the right to be on the ballot. i've always said i trust the american people. they know how to make good decisions and so i think that they're going to see this for what it is. they see that he's completely distracted. they see that he's going on

these rans about how he's the victim, and i think that's exactly what we don't need a strong leader to be, and so you know, these court cases will keep happening one by one. we'll keep seeing him in a ourm and we'll see him come out and do a press conference and that's not what a president to be. that's not what we want russia to see. that's not what we want china to see and what we want iran to see. >> what's unique about this case is the jury has ruled. they found him liable of sexual abuse. do you not trust the jury and their findings, ambassador? >> i absolutely trust the jury, and i think that they made their decision based on the evidence. i just don't think that should take him off the ballot. i think american people will take him off the ballot. that's the best way to go forward is not let mihm play the victim. let him play the loser. that's what we want him to do at the end of the day. >> just to be clear, do you think it's disqualifying, ambassador? >> i don't think he should be taken off the ballot.

i think the american people will decide if he's disqualifying or not. we don't do that, kristen, in america. anybody that wants to run can run, and i think that's really important. we've seen a lot of people try to infringe on our freedoms and our democracy. we can never let that happen. i don't want a political party deciding who right and wrong. i don't want any judges to decide who deserves to be on the ballot and who doesn't. i want the american people to decide it. that's what the heartbeat of america is our democracy. let's let the american people decide who they want to lead this country. >> ambassador, just one m jury m liable for sexual abuse? >> i'm not giving him a pass on anything. i have said he went on for three or four minutes talking about how i didn't secure the capitol on january 6th. clearly, he was confused that i was thinking i was nancy pelosi. look, that's exactly why we don't need two people in their 80s running for president. we want someone who can serve a strong eight years to get our country back on track and you

can't do that. it's not being disrespectful. it's the fact when you are 80 you are declining. that's just a fact. look, there are multiple things that are the reason i don't think he should be president. that's the whole reason i'm running. i do think he is in decline and he needs to step away. i do think he surrounds himself in chaos and we can't be a country in disarray and have a world on fire and i do think these court cases are distracting and not just to the american people, but to him, himself which is keeping him from talking about what really matters and that's exactly why i don't think he should be president. >> i want to ask you about his attacks against you. he has mocked your birth name. he has suggested you're not eligible to be president because your parents weren't born here and you were born here. what do you make of him bringing back this birther playbook against you? do you think it will win in south carolina and win over

voters there? >> i mean, honestly, kristen, i laugh every time i see one of his tweets and every time i see him throw a temper tantrum because i know donald trump very well. when he feels insecure he starts to rail, he starts to rant and he starts to flail his arms and he starts to get upset. when he feels threatened he starts to throw all kinds of things out there. i would always tell him he is his own worst enemy and he's proving that right now. he proved it in the pack that he continues to be chaotic. those things don't hurt my feelings. this is not personal for me. what is personal for me is getting america back on track. >> would you go so far as to call those attacks racist, ambassador? >> i think that's for everybody else to decide. i think that they, you know, the fact that he continues to go down these paths of saying things. is this who we want as a president? is this who we want our kids to see? i don't think so. look, he's just going to become unhinged, kristen. hold on, it's going to get worse

because that's what he does when he feels that he's not in control. >> ambassador, haley, let's pause our conversation here for just a moment. when we come back, republicans are backing away from a border policy deal that would unlock funding for ukraine and israel. is it all just campaign politics? (fisher investments) it's easy to think that all money managers are pretty much the same, but at fisher investments we're clearly different. (other money manager) different how? you sell high commission investment products, right? (fisher investments) nope. fisher avoids them. (other money manager) well, you must earn commissions on trades. (fisher investments) never at fisher investments. (other money manager) ok, then you probably sneak in some hidden and layered fees. (fisher investments) no. we structure our fees so we do better when clients do better. that might be why most of our clients come from other money managers. at fisher investments, we're clearly different. i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪

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attack your friends and steal their coins. play now. ♪♪ ♪♪ welcome back. ambassador nikki haley is still with us. ambassador, thank you for staying with us. i do want to ask you about this border deal. there have been talks for weeks now, a group of senators working on this deal. they seem to be close to the finish line, but now donald trump is trying to torpedo any deal. he wrote this weekend, quote, a bad border deal is far worse than no border deal. what is your message right now to republicans on capitol hill? should they get this deal done?

>> my message to republicans is do not leave d.c. until you finish the job. we have waited for so long for congress to do something about the border. first, joe biden should be securing the border. this is a national security threat. the idea that he is actually suing governor abbott for trying to protect the people of texas is wrong. america is aking like it's september 10th and we better remember what september 12th looked like because it only takes one person to cause a 9/11 moment. republicans and democrats need to get into a room and they don't need to leave until they figure this out because the american people are not safe at this point and donald trump, the last thing he needs to do is tell them to wait to pass a border deal until the election. we can't wait one more day and they do need to get this right. i don't know exactly the details in the bill, but one of the things i saw was that they didn't have the remain in mexico policy. you have to have the remain in mexico policy because people

don't even need to step foot on u.s. soil and that's where we need to start. >> ambassador haley, the biden administration say they're taking action against governor abbott because they see his policies as inhumane. let me ask you big picture, president biden said he is prepared to shut down the border if this deal passes. if you were president and you were in the white house and i know you are saying republicans should get a deal and you also see you don't see anything in it you want, would you sign this bill and would you sign this into law? >> i haven't seen the details of the bill so i can't comment on whether i would sign it. what i can tell you is i've seen things that should not be in it and let's keep in mind and i appreciate president biden saying he wants to be humane in this process. look, i dealt with the border when i was in the united nationses and while trump was in d.c. i was in honduras and guatemala. what those people go through in the trek is horrific.

it's dangerous and unsafe. we need to have them think there should never be an opening for them and they shouldn't do the trek in the first place. they see all their family coming over. they see all their friends coming over and president biden gave half a million venezuelans, they pick up the phone and call their relatives and say come on over. we need to stop what's happening. we need to get this done. >> when you hear president biden saying he's prepared to shut down the border what say you about that? you agree with that assessment? >> i say to president biden prove it. get into a room and get this done and prove it because the american people are waiting. i put this on republicans and democrats. i'm not picking favorites in this. i'm telling you they have all not done a good job from the very beginning and it is time we get this country safe again. >> let's talk about what's happening in the middle east. there are reports the u.s. is

getting closer to negotiating a deal that would effectively mean israel would suspend its military operations in gaza for about two months in exchange for release of the remaining hostages. the cia director is in paris negotiating these talks right now. if you were president and you were in the white house right now is this the type of deal you would get behind? would you be supporting this and urging israel to accept this compromise? >> we want to do everything we can to get the hostages home, but i also know what this means. this means that during those two months hamas is going to refuel. they're going to rebuild their ammunition and they'll re-plan and plan all of the things they're going to do. they have said they'll do another attack and israel has to keep themselves safe. so this is a fine line that we need to see them walk. first of all, we need to make sure israel has whatever they need when they need it. it. we need to make sure that we eliminate hamas and never take

our eye off the target. >> do you think this is a bad deal? -- >> do you think it's a bad deal to pause for two months? >>. >> i think if israel is willing to pause we should, if israel is not willing to pause then we shouldn't. they are driving this train. when they saw so many people die on october 7th and they hear hamas saying they'll do this again. kristen, when i was at the united nations i gave a speech five years ago and it told the world that there were maps. these maps were held by hamas and it showed that if they could break through the barrier that's how they were going to kill as many jewish people as fast as they could. that happened. i knew there would be no hamas without iran. i knew they want to eliminate israel and we have to find a way to protect israelis and get those hostages home. this may work, we have to see, but we also have to not take our eyes off hamas because they'll use this time to kill more people and do more things to build up their military.

>> i'll ask you about something that happened in south carolina last month. we are just learning about it right now. authorities responding to a swatting call just for our audience, that's when a fake emergency call is called in, creating the possibility of a really dangerous situation. you were not home at the time, but what was your reaction? what are the implications of this happened, ambassador? >> well, kristen, i was not home, but michael and i take care of my parents. they are 87 and 90 and we take care of them and they were at hom and with their caregiver, and i will tell you the last thing you want is to see multiple law enforcement officials with guns drawn pointing at my parents and thinking that something happened. it is a -- it is an awful situation. it put the law enforcement officers in danger. it put my family in danger and you know, it was not a safe

situation, and that goes to show the chaos that is surrounding our country right now and the fact that these things are happening. so, look, i'm not the only one that's happened to. it wasn't the first time. i think we've had it happen twice, but i will tell you this, that i think that what's really important is we have lived in a country of chaos for quite a while now. it is time that we remember what normal felt like. it is time that we remember what healing feels like. it is time that we remember what it's like not to have division and not to have hate. we are americans and we need to remember how blessed we are. >> just very quickly and we have two more topics i want to get to. how concerned are you about political violence overall given what happened? >> look, i feel it. we've been to town halls -- 150-something town halls and i've had threats made. it's what happens when you run for president. i can handle that.

that is not the problem. what i don't want is for my kids to live like this. that's the reason i'm doing this and to have this division. my husband is deployed right now, sacrificing for america with his military brothers and sisters and they are doing that because they love this country because they still believe in this amazing experiment that is america. we have to go back to remember what it's like to be americans first and that's the biggest thing that's heartbreaking for me is we're better than this. our country is better than this and the rest of the world is looking at us wondering what happened. we've got to right this ship, and we've got to get back, and i know we can do it. america has an amazing ability to self-correct. sometimes we have to hit rock bottom to know where up is and we have to do that. >> if you do fall short, if you don't get the nomination you have said before that being on a ticket with donald trump is, quote, off the table. let me just ask you to put a fine point on it. have you completely ruled out

being donald trump's running mate? >> i have said i don't want to be anyone's vice president. i don't know how more clearer i can be anyone's vice president. >> you've ruled it out? >> i don't -- i think that's what i'm saying, if i'm saying i don't want to be anyone's vice president i think that's pretty clear. what i am telling you is i am going to run and i am running to win, and i think the american people deserve better, and i think this is a time where the american people need a lot of courage. we have seen every general election poll. trump does not beat biden in a general election. we have seen that. i defeat biden by double digits. when you look at, that that's a mandate, kristen to get the wasteful spending out of control and secure our border with no more excuses and get our kids reading again and that's what we need to be doing. >> would you rule out endorsing him as a nominee. you have have said before that you support him, given your stepped-up language you have

called him unhinged and would you rule him out as a nominee? >> i'm not thinking about endorsements and i know you want to talk about if, i'm focused on defeating donald trump. period. that's it. i'm not thinking past that, past south carolina or super tuesday. what i want to do is go and save this country. we have a country to save. i'm determineded to do it. you all can think forward. i'm focused on the sweet people of south carolina and making sure we get their voices heard and we'll get to work as hafd and fast as we ever have. >> ambassador haley, good luck on the campaign trail, stay safe and we appreciate you joining us. when we come back, (vo) sail through the heart of historic cities and unforgettable scenery with viking. unpack once, and get closer to iconic landmarks, local life, and cultural treasures. because when you experience europe on a viking longship,

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progressives and particularly young voters. joining me now is democratic congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez of new york. congresswoman, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you for having me. >> well, we really appreciate your being here and we will get to the situation in the middle east in just a moment, but i do want to ask you about the president's re-election campaign. as you know in the key battleground states he has real vulnerabilities and why do you think he is struggling against donald trump, someone who has been indicted four times and has slapped with this $83 million civil suit? >> think we can take a look at the overall landscape here. it's not just what we are talking about with president biden, but also former president trump has extraordinary vulnerabilities we saw that in new hampshire. the fact that he is a former sitting president, head of his party and virtually everyone else has dropped out and

endorsed him and as we just saw nikki haley came and she cleared out 43% in new hampshire bodes very not well for donald trump and his ability to win a general election. when it comes to president biden i think we need to focus and understand that young people are a very strong part of this electorate. we have a diverse coalition in the democratic party that has its own concerns whether it is what's happening in gaza or -- or any other number of issues, but right now i think november will be about the coalition we can put together and the policy progress we can make between now and then. >> and do you think president biden is the strongest person to take on former president trump given everything you've just said, congresswoman? >> i think what we have right now, what we've seen in new hampshire, he is virtually the nominee of the party. his turnout in new hampshire is actually not something to ignore.

we saw from a write-in campaign, remember, president biden wasn't even on the ballot in new hampshire. he won overwhelmingly with turnout that even exceeded obama 2012 turnout when obama was on the ballot and so there are quite a few indicators in his strength in new hampshire. we will see what happens in south carolina and of course, when we get to important primaries like michigan. >> just to be clear, though, do you think the president is the strongest person to take on mr. trump if he is the nominee. it's still an if. >> yes. especially when we look at this field. we have dean philips and mary ann williamson, president biden without that question among the field is the strongest nominee. >> you have said in the past, it's not just enough for democrats to talk about what they are running against. you want the president to be talking about what he's running for. do you think in this very moment president biden is doing a good

enough job explaining to voters why they should vote for him and not just against former president trump? are. >> i think we can certainly do more to be advancing our vision, and i believe that we have a strong vision that we can run on. you know, i think, and for what it's worth, the president has said if you give me the house and if you give me the senate and re-elect me to the presidency, we will codify abortion rights and the right to choose in this country. we'll codify reproductive rights. i think we can do more. i think we need to be talking more about health care. of course, me as a progressive, i want to see the age of medicare drop whether it's to 50 as the president has discussed earlier or to zero as is my preference to extend medicare to all people in the united states of america, but i believe that we can be doing more. we can talk even more about the fact that public colleges and universities should be

tuition-free or reduced. the president has advanced student loan forgiveness just this month where people who have taken out safe loans under $20,000 they will see their loans wiped out. i do believe that advancing that affirmative vision is going to be very, very important as well as really laying out and showing between now and november through our governing decisions. our governing decisions, when we have that power in the white house. what we are willing to do with it. >> congresswoman, to that point, has the biden campaign reached out to you and said we want you to help re-elect president biden. how do you see your role and the role of progressives in this re-election effort? >> i see my role overall as really trying to expand the power of movements. have they reached out to you, congresswoman? >> we've been in contact with them -- we've been in contact

with the biden administration throughout my term and throughout his term, as well, and i know that he has been in contact, you know, with many members of congress, but i think what is most important is that in terms of my role, i think my role is in allegiance to people's movements across this country in the labor movement that had extraordinary gains last year whether it was the teamsters and whether it was uaw's historic contract and whether it is the bubbling labor fights that we are seeing across the country. i think we have and our responsible sit to make sure those fights are protected and a climate movement that has built such extraordinary power that just this past week the biden administration actually announced a pause on all liquefied natural gas export facilities and additional ones moving forward. that is not just because of the biden administration, and i want to be very clear about that. that is because of absolute

organized and committed organizing by activists and communities that are being impacted on the ground whether you're a unionized labor worker or whether you're a front line climate activist and having and ensuring that we are protecting an environment where those movements have the ability to the right to organize is what i am committed to, and that is why i am committed to ensuring that they are not stamped out with the trump presidency. >> let me ask you about what's happening in the middle east. there are details about this potential emerging deal in which israel would stop its war campaign for about two months in exchange for all of the hostages and given the argument by israel and the u.s. government that applying pressure to hamas is the only way to get the hostages out. >> do you think that israel's strategy on the point of the hostages has been effective? >> i do not.

we have seen -- we know that hamas has an organization and it does not have any regard for human life. i think that in hamas' attack on october 7th they knew what they were bringing on. they knew the violence and they understood the a symmetric attack that israel has put out. israel is indiscriminately attacking gazans and we have seen over 25,000 palestinians have been killed, over 70% of whom are women and children. this -- using 25,000 lives as leverage and the idea that that is going to pressure hamas, they are accountable to very little, but i think what is most important is saving these lives, ensuring the release of hostages and in my view, negotiating a ceasefire.

>> some of your colleagues and we talked about what's happened at the protests this week have called the president genocide joe. some of your colleagues have accused the president of supporting genocide including rashida tlaib. do you agree with that word, genocide that the president has been supporting a genocide or does that go too far? >> i think what we are seeing right now throughout the country is that young people are appalled at the violence and the indiscriminate loss of life. we are not just seeing 25,000 people that have died in gaza. we are seeing the starvation of -- of millions of people, the displacement of over 2 million gazans. we have south africa that has mounted court in the icj. the icj ruled this week that israel has a grave responsibility to prevent genocide. >> but they're still determining whether it's a genocide.

>> they are still determining it. >> -- it's still under investigations? >> i believe they are still determining it, but in the interim ruling, the fact that they said there a responsibility to prevent it. the fact that this word is even in play. the fact that this word is even in our discourse, i think demonstrates the mass inhumanity that gazans are facing, and so whether you are an individual that believes this is a genocide, which by the way, in our polling we are seeing large amounts of americans concerned specifically with that word, so i don't think that it is something to completely toss someone out of our public discourse for using, but i think what we are seeing here is that the netanyahu government has lost public support and that we have a responsibility to protect the human rights and the humanity of gazans and hostages alike in the area. >> congresswoman alexandria

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welcome back. the panel is here. nbc news washington managing editor carol lee, democratic pollster cornell belcher and matt gorman, former senior communications adviser for tim scott for america. thanks to all of you for being here. matt, i need to start with you. you heard nikki haley say she doesn't have to win south carolina, she just has to do better than new hampshire. what do you think of that path? >> it's like the '80s slogan. she has to start winning somewhere. she's 20 points down in south carolina, she has four weeks to go, but if we're looking ten days, 20 days, she's still down the 20 points and that's a very different conversation and things have to move in her direction. >> i think when you get inside the internals of the number, new hampshire gave her the best chance of knocking him off because of the number of independents and the large

swaths of independent not so many republican voters. she's not winning enough hard core conservative primary voters to see a pathway forward here. even in the states going to super tuesday that are open primaries, she's not nearly winning enough independents and enough core republican voters to see a pathway to victory. >> 600,000 new voters, people from the north and higher income college grad prime for pickoff. >> we will watch it closely because it's her home state and the dynamics there are just so fascinating. carol lee, it was so fascinating that president biden basically said, okay, primary is over the night of the new hampshire primary. you have this exclusive reporting on the strategy it the first of its kind fundraiser. >> the biden campaign is trying to organize a fundraiser with president biden, former president obama and former president clinton and the three of them headlining a fund raiser and they're hoping to set up a fundraiser and no date is set, and it's likely to happen in the

spring, march or april. they want to raise money with that and energize democrats who have not shown enthusiasm for the biden ticket in 2024, and it's just part of this strategy of this all-hands-on-deck approach that we've seen from party leaders and one biden adviser said the fact that they're doing it this early in the year underscores that it is everybody trying to get onboard and trying to get biden over the finish line. >> cornell, what do you make of that, of carol's reporting and just some of the warning signs inside democratic circles? you had president biden in south carolina overnight with congressman clyburn trying to make sure that voters of color, black voters turn out for him in the same numbers that they did in 2020? >> i make it like every couple of years we have political amnesia because i remember being in the same space in 2012 when democrats were not so energized and yong people were, like, we didn't get what we wanted.

that's why you build campaigns and what you will see over over the next couple of months is biden vp telling the stories and clinton and obama telling the stories and it is all hands on deck. they do have a good story to tell even to these young people when you look at environmental issues that they're so keen on. he's done more than any president in history. they have a story to tell. they just have to get their message out. not all of of this is going on against the backdrop of these border talks. donald trump is basically saying to republicans, don't get a deal. mitch mcconnell in a private meeting said we don't want to undermine him and publicly, mcconnell walked it back and moderate republicans are saying this is the best possibility of getting a deal in decades with democrats. let's do it now. >> it reminds me of the sixth sense. it's been dead a month and with a three-vote margin in the house, the white house and the senator ak like they're the only

people involved in this, they're not. with that being said, joe biden can do it on his own. remain in mexico and he initiating it, he acts like he's hopeless here. he's absolutely not. >> let's not forget the politics. they're killing this because of politics and i've seen it happen before. in 2007 bush wanted to do it with immigration and they attacked it as amnesty, and don't take my word and take senator tom tillerson who said what the republicans are doing may be immoral because the president trump thinks it's good for his politics. >> obama with 60 votes didn't get it done. >> he had economic crisis to deal with. >> just to remind folks, the backdrop to all of this, carol is to get a deal on the border so that there's more funding for ukraine and israel and that situation is something that's looming large overed biden

administration and i know you have new reporting about israel. >> the president is in a bind to do more to get israel to scale things back on its assault in the gaza strip. we were reporting this morning that one of the things the administration is doing is how to leverage israel's request for weaponry, ammunition and things like that to incentivize them to do what the president has privately been urging them to do, and look, there's no decisions have been made on this, but it's significant these discussions are happening because it would move the president from just the rhetoric and these behind the scenes pushing to actually potentially taking some sort of action which is what democrats, members of his party have been calling for. >> and there's no doubt if they got this deal to release the hostages that would be politically significant. thank you all. we'll have you back. appreciate it. that's all for today. thank you so much for watching. we'll be back next week, because if it's sunday, it's "meet the ♪♪ ♪♪

breaking news. the first american combat deaths in the middle east since the war in gaza began. three soldiers killed and dozens more injured after a drone attack in jordan. it's a major escalation in the region. we're live with the latest