press". this sunday, performance anxiety. president biden stumbles in the first debate of the presidential campaign sending democrats into

a panic. >> what i've been able to do with the -- the covid -- excuse me with -- um -- dealing with everything we have to do with -- look, if -- we finally beat medicare. >> i really don't know what he said at the end of that sentence. i don't think he knows what he said either. >> how will the president reassure voters concerned about his able and fitness for office. >> i don't debate as well as i used to, but i know what i do know, i know how to tell the truth. >> could there be a change at the top of the ticket. >> filibuster. donald trump refuses to say if he will accept the results of the next election and repeats multiple falsehoods while defending the actions of the rioters on january 6s. >> on january 6th we were respected all over the world. >> as his criminal conviction hangs over the race. >> the only person on the stage that is a convicted felon -- i

didn't have sex with a porn star. >> republican governor doug burgum of north dakota joining me for insight and analysis, nbc news chief political analyst chuck todd, christina londano rooney, senior washington correspondent for telemundo. mark short, former chief of staff to former vice president mike pence and former obama communications director, jennifer palmieri. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press." with kristen welker. >> good sunday morning. it is yet another extraordinary moment in the 2024 election cycle. with democrats in a state of crisis after president joe biden delivered a disastrous debate performance that fueled voters' top concerns about his age and

ability to serve another four years in office. not since the first nixon-kennedy debate in 1960, has a debate had as much potential to shake up a presidential race. this morning, there is widespread panic within the democratic party, and questions about whether the president should drop out of the race. >> i think it was a [ bleep ] disas astor. i think it was maybe the worst debate i've seen in my entire life. >> i think people feel we are confronting a crisis. >> at first it was shocking and scary and then it was sad and by the end absurd. it's the riskiest path sticking with joe biden or the riskiest path saying we want someone else and anybody who says that that is not a tough call right now is full of [ bleep ]. >> on friday, in a stunning move, "the new york times" editorial board called on president biden to serve his country and drop out of the presidential race. nbc news has learned that president biden is expected to

address his campaign with his family at camp david. that's according to five people familiar with the matter. now he and first lady jill biden arrived there late last night to join their children and grandchildren in a trip planned before thursday's debate. campaign was always going to be a topic of conversation, but now undoubtedly thursday u.s.'s debate will be front and center. anita dunn addressed the matter on saturday. >> you all did not have any kind of conversations about should joe biden drop out of this race? >> the conversation we had is what do we do next. that is -- if there's one thing we're about it's okay, barack obama said bad debates happen, we had a bad debate. what do we do next? the if the is focused on what do we do next? >> president biden, who agreed to the earlierest general election debate in modern history had one goal, to persuade voters who are skeptical about his age and fitness for office that he is up

to serve another four years. mr. biden has consistently told voters watch me. >> if i were to run i think you would judge me on my vitality, can i run up the steps of air force 2, am i in good shape, do i have all my faculties, am i energetic. it's totally legitimate for people to ask those questions. this is for the voters to decide. take a look. see if i have the energy, know what i'm talking about and make their judgment. i think it's a legitimate thing to be concerned about anyone's age, including mine. i think that's totally legitimate. but i think the best way to make the judgment is to, you know, watch me. >> well, on thursday night, voters watched the president deliver a halting performance. at times appearing confused and repeatedly losing his train of thought. >> making sure that we're able to make every single solitary person -- eligible for what i've been able to do with the -- with

the covid -- excuse me, with dealing with -- everything we have to do with -- look, if -- we finally beat medicare. >> for his part, mr. trump unleashed a torrent of false claims, saying that most americans supported overturning roe v. wade when polls showed the opposite, saying falsely again that there was widespread fraud in the 2020 election and refusing to answer whether he would accept the election results in november. >> will you accept the results of the election, regardless of who wins, yes or no, please? >> if it's a fair and legal and good election, absolutely. i would have much rather accepted these, but the fraud and everything else was ridiculous. if you want we'll have a news conference on it in a week. >> democratic leaders are publicly expressing support for president biden, on friday former president obama posted,

quote, bad debate nights happen, trust me, i know. but this election is still a choice between someone who has fought for ordinary folks his entire life, and someone who only cares about himself. president biden's age and allies have circulated talking points to contain the damage trying to calm donors at a rally in north carolina a defiant president biden insisting he's prepared to fight on. >> i know i'm not a young man. state the obvious. i don't walk as easy as i used to. i don't speak as smoothly as i used to. i don't debate as well as i used to. i know what i do know, i know how to tell the truth! >> the decision is effectively president biden's alone. at this point if he dropped out of the race, he would free up his delegates to support another nominee. so far the president and his campaign have indicated that he does not plan to step aside.

on capitol hill, there are widespread fears about losing the white house, but top leaders are urging calm. >> this is a performance that gets the kind of reviews that performance gets. that would be cause for concern. that was strike one. if this were a ball game he's got two more swings. >> do you think president biden is the best manager for the ticket? >> i'm a big supporter of president biden. he's been a great president. >> after the debate performance last night should he step aside. >> no. >> joining me from atlanta democratic senator raphael warnock of georgia. senator warnock, welcome back to "meet the press." >> great to be here with you. good morning. >> good morning to you. it is great to have you here. let me start with the debate. president biden had one goal, to prove to voters that he was capable of serving another four years in office. by all accounts he did not meet his own benchmark.

your hometown paper "the atlanta journal constitution" has joined the list of newspapers calling for him to drop out. do you think president biden should drop out much this race, senator? >> oh, absolutely not. you know they say if it's sunday morning it's "meet the press." i'll tell you the pastor for me it's church time and i can tell you that there have been more than a few sundays when i wish i had preached a better sermon. but after the sermon was over, it was my job to embody the message, to show up for the people that i serve. and that's what joe biden has been doing. his entire life, his entire life of public service, and over the last four years, he's been showing up for the american people. he's been showing up for seniors, as they've been dealing with the rise in costs of prescription drugs and having to choose between buying food and buying medicine in the wealthiest nation on the planet he's been showing up for workers.

he's been showing up for folks chasing the american dream, found themselves mired in student debt, government-sanctioned debt trap, and he found a way, while being resisted by trump's allies, to forgive that debt and give people a fighting chance. the question this morning is not what is joe biden going to do? the question is who has donald trump ever shown up for, other than himself and people like himself? i'm with joe biden. and it's our assignment to make sure that he gets over the finish line come november. not for his sake but the country's sake. >> senator, i hear you saying look, this was a bad performance, but a lot of democrats were saying boy, it was more than that. it raised real concerns about his readiness, his ability to serve another four years. what was your reaction when you saw him struggling to complete sentences? >> well, listen, if they weren't engaged in a little bit of hand

wringing they wouldn't be democrats. maybe it's because i preach every sunday. bad debates happen. as president obama has said. this was 90 minutes. let me tell you about that 90 minutesp donald trump lied the entire 90 minutes. one analysis said he told about 30 lies. i'm not real good at math, but i think that's about a lie every 90 seconds. that's real talent. that means whenever his mouth was moving he was lying. we can't have somebody like that in the oval office. that's not a talent we need leading the free world so joe biden has demonstrated not over 90 minutes, but over the last four years, the character and the metal of the man that he is. and he has demonstrated this both in his public service and in his personal life. his is a life of public service, baptized in sorrow and it is why

you feel his sense of care when you're with him. it's our job, democracy is a group project, it's our job to make sure that donald trump gets nowhere near the oval office. >> and yet, senator, it was president biden's job to push back on those lies that you mentioned, and by all accounts he either wasn't capable or wasn't ready to do that during that debate on thursday night. why shouldn't democrats, his supporters, be deeply concerned about his ability to take on donald trump, what you have framed as an existential threat? >> i have to admit to you that i almost forget how much donald trump lies. and one of the other things that i saw in that debate and the american people saw, if you want to talk about the big takeaway, we saw donald trump trash talking the whole country. he's been doing over the last

several years. trash talking our workers, saying they're people who are dying overwhere. the murder rate spiked under his leadership and gone down in record numbers under president biden's leadership. he's been trash talking our country. if you listen to donald trump, you have to come away with the conclusion that he thinks he's better than america. the opposite is true. america is better a whole lot better than donald trump. and we've had a primary. it's our job to demonstrate that. the world is watching and our children are counting on us to get this right. >> if that's the case, if those are the stakes, the future of this country and the children of this country, if you think president biden should stay in this race, what do you think he needs to do to be able to win? because i have to tell you, i've been having conversations with democrats throughout the weekend who say he cannot win this race at this point. >> he needs to keep showing up

the way -- >> needs to show up more? does he need to show up more, doing more interviews and more debates? >> i think he needs to keep showing up the way he has been showing up for the american people and the people in my state. when we passed the bipartisan infrastructure bill, we invested some $9 billion in my state alone. this is creating jobs. some 600,000 jobs all across our country. i think part of the reason we're here with all due respect, kristen, is that often in our politics in america, it's covered like it's a football game. this is not fantasy football. this is people's lives we're talking about. we spend a lot of time on these programs talking about the politicians as if politics is about the politicians. who's up, who's down. over, after one debate who's in, who's out. i think the american people sitting around their kitchen tables this morning is asking, are asking, who cares? who is thinking about me? who cares about me?

we have no proof that donald trump has ever thought about anybody other than himself. >> well, when you think about what the next several months of this debate and this race are going to look like, the debate will continue to be front and center undoubtedly and the rnc signaling what their attacks are going to look like. they posted this video spotlighting democrats' claims about the fitness of president biden, and it really is a preview of what we may see. take a look. >> he is sharp, intensely probing, and detail oriented and focused. >> this is a man who is sharp, who is on top of his game, knows what's going on. >> this guy is tough, smart, on his game. >> his mental acuity is great. >> this is a very sharp president. >> this is a man that's on his game. >> senator, do those comment reflect the joe biden you know when you are with him behind

closed doors. >> oh, absolutely. i have spent time with joe biden and i can tell you not only does he have a tough mind, he has a tender heart. and that's what you need in a president. donald trump has neither. he lacks both intellectual curiosity and emotional empathy. >> but -- >> he doesn't think deeply about anything and not thinking about anybody other than himself. that is the binary choice in front of us. with all due respect, i think that this exercise in fantasizing about a scenario that we don't have, is unhelpful. we can ill afford to be distracted at a time like this. we have a man who has the competence and the character to lead this great nationens, and who loves this nation. another man who thinks he's better than the nation. it is our job to prove that america is better than donald trump. >> does he need to prove that in a more robust way? for example, the white house released a summary of the president's annual physical back in february.

no cognitive exam was done at the time. for the sake of transparency, should president biden take a cognitive exam before the election and release those results? >> listen, in the course of an election, and i'm not a part of the campaign, in the course of an election, we ought to test these men. and they ought to be out there in front of the public. we ought to see who they are. and quite frankly, the more i hear donald trump talking, the more nervous i become. i don't need --? is that a yes to a cognitive test? >> i'm not a doctor. listen, it's not something, quite frankly, i've even thought about. watching donald trump the other night, i had to say to myself, this is a sick person. i mean, how do you stand and literally lie every 90 seconds? i don't know anybody like that. we're not even talking about whether you're worthy to be the president of the united states. this is somebody with a deep

personal issue and america's better than donald trump. >> i know we're not there yet, but as you well know, there's a lot of buzz about whether or not president biden will step down. if he does, would you like to see vice president harris at the top of the ticket? is she the next strongest person to represent democrats? >> i have great respect for vice president harris, whom i spent a great deal of time with, but joe biden is the nominee. and i'm going to do everything i can to make sure we elect joe biden and kamala harris come november. >> if he's not the nominee is she the strongest choice? >> i think it is quite unhelpful to be imagining able a scenario other than the one that's in front of us. we got real enemies abroad and this is a serious race at a moment -- listen, elections at the end of the day are not only about the character of the folks who are running but the character of the country. this is our moral assignment in

this moment to demonstrate to our children that we are better than the people who would re-elect somebody who is a pathological liar, a malignant narcissist. our country is better than that, and i think the future is bright on the joe biden leadership. >> senator warnock, thank you so much for your time this morning. we really appreciate it. >> thank you. good morning, everybody. >> all right. when we come back, he's on the short list of donald trump's vice presidential picks, north dakota senator doug burgum joins me next. (fisher investments) at fisher investments we may look like other money managers, but we're different. (other money manager) you can't be that different. (fisher investments) we are. we have a team of specialists not only in investing, but also also in financial and estate planning and more. (other money manager) your clients rely on you for all that? (fisher investments) yes. and as a fiduciary, we always put their interests first. (other money manager) but you still sell commission -based products, right? (fisher investments) no. we have a simple management fee structured

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believe that because he does betner polls than any of the democrats they're talking about. >> welcome back in virginia on friday, former president trump tried to capitalize on president biden's debate performance and casting doubts about whether mr. biden will drop out of the presidential race. joining me now is doug burgum of north dakota, a top finalist to be mr. trump's running mate. thank you for being here in person. let's talk about donald trump's debate performance. three times he refused to say that he would accept the results of this election. he still has not conceded the 2020 election. you have said that joe biden is legitimately elected president. so let me ask you, should donald trump as the presidential nominee unequivocally accept the election results? >> well, kristin, i heard him on thursday night say that he would accept the results of the

election if it was free and fair and secure, all of the things that whether you're an independent, republican or democrat, would you accept. people in north dakota don't challenge them because we have secure elections and i think that is what we need in this entire country. i think the answered the question. i think the real question is, if president trump wins in the fall, which is looks like he will, will joe biden and the democrats accept results? >> as you know though, in his answer, repeatedly, there were caveats and those type of caveats undermine people's faith in a fee and fair democracy. is he not underminding people's faith in the democracy and the democracy itself by raising questions about the fairness of the 2020 election? which, by the way, is on record as being one the most fair elections in u.s. history. >> i think this -- i have to reject the whole premise. because just in the short lifetime, you don't have to be that old to know that in 2000, democrats calgaried the election

and it it went down to one county in florida, the hanging chads. yes hillary clinton conceded the election but immediately after that began what is still going on today as a smear came about whether the election results in '16 were legitimate. and so both parties have done this. as a country, if we want to move forward we have to have elections that both parties agree to. >> let me push back for a moment. because therein lies the different. everyone has the right to challenge the election. donald trump has a right to challenge the election results and yet hillary clinton and al gore conceded. donald trump has yet to concede. is that not undemocratic, particularly for spun who is running to be the leader of this country and the free world again? >> donald trump left the white house, we had a smooth transition. and i think -- >> january 6 want exactly a smooth transition, governor. >> well i think we have to say there was a smooth transition and everybody in both parties is

goi going to challenge elections that they don't feel fair. there is over 3100 counties and they have din rules and in 2020 with covid there was a myriad of new rules and regulations we had never seen before. so of course i think going into 2024, i think both parties will be voe focused on it and the idea that this is the threat to democracy as the governor in north dakota, i've been living or what i call the biden dictatorship because of all of the rules and regulations. the supreme court came out on friday with a chevron ruling because maybe now we could put a stop to agencies creating laws that don't come from congress. >> let me ask you about your comments about a dictatorship and then back to this. about a and get back to this. you say he's a dictator for passing rules and regulations. biden passed 139, trump passed 169 at this point and governor, you as governor, have passed 164. does that make you the dictator of north dakota?

>> i'm not trying to jam rules and regulations down on our state. in most of president trump's executive orders we're trying to get rid of red tape. joe biden is creating a bunch of new effectively laws affecting our country and i want to go back to the debate, i want to go back to the top. you asked about the debate. every channel this morning should be talking about what happened. this is the most consequential historic debate in history because we've never had a debate where immediately after it's over, this is like a rocky knockout. they should build a statute of donald trump at georgia tech. everyone is talking about should joe biden stay in the race. that's never happened in our history. it was such a dominant performance by president trump in this debate. >> it's also never happened in our history that someone has not actually said that election results -- where this conversation began -- let me ask you, governor, can you say someone on the short list to be trump's vp nominee, can you commit here and now today to

accepting the election results? >> kristen, these hypothetical questions that keep coming up imply that somehow in every one of our 3100 counties in america, that everything is going to go perfectly. i have never commented on a bill before it reached my desk. i'm not going to comment on an election before it happens. >> you won't commit to accepting the election. >> if they're free and fair, of course. this hypothetical question people keep asking, the democrats won't accept it if there's irregularities in the fall. ask joe biden if he would accept it if he thought there were issues would he accept it. the premise only one party gets asked this is a false premises. >> the democrats have said they will accept the election results and no democrat has refused to concede who is running for office. one more time, does that not undermine the democracy people's faith in our democracy, to caveat it in the way you have? again, election officials have said the last election was the safest in u.s. history. >> what undermines the faith and

democracy and we've seen in the polls people trust president biden more than biden on democracy right now. >> yeah. >> and the democrat party in this election, four years ago, when we ended up with the current ticket on the democrat side, that was a grand devil's bargain everybody drop out we're going with these two. the biggest lie hoisted on the american people was seen on thursday night. people can't unsee what they saw. what they saw was, we've been told by the white house, two weeks ago the white house was attacking journalists including your friends, saying, that no, you can't say these stories about the joe biden isn't capable of serving right now. and then all of america saw it. you know who else saw it our adversaries, putin, xi, the ayatollah saw it. we keep talking about elections, we're at a greater national security risk today than we were on thursday because the commander in chief showed that he's not capable of serving. >> there's not proof of that, but governor, let me ask you about the debate and a little bit more of what we saw.

by one count donald trump made more than 30 false claims during that debate. i want to play something you told my colleague chuck todd on this broadcast last year, take a look. >> ever lied in politics? >> no. >> that you know of. >> no. >> you feel like you've always told the truth as you understood it? >> absolutely. that's how i was raised and how i've gone forward. >> as someone on donald trump's short list to be his vice presidential nominee, do you think he should stop saying things that are not true? >> i think the whole manufactured thing this morning of -- that donald trump has said something that he hasn't said before, i mean, everything that he said on thursday night he's been saying before. this isn't -- >> that's not manufactured. >> this is not news. >> this is not manufactured, governor. just to say a few, he said democrats want to kill infants after birth. that's not true. lied about widespread fraud. not true. his comments after charlottesville. should he be truthful with the american people if he wants to lead this country?

especially given what you just said, you never lied. that's your standard, governor. >> well, i think you bring up an important issue because i think one of the reasons why the democrats are in complete disarray, it's not just joe biden's performance, but they were running on something which is that donald trump, they were concerned about republicans' position on life and donald trump was very clear, he will not support a federal abortion ban. he was super clear on that during the debate. and when he challenged joe biden and said will you agree to any restrictions, the moderators asked joe biden will you agree to any restrictions in the last day of the ninth month and joe biden would not commit to that. the marker has been set. the democrats have the extreme position and like president trump, i believe this belongs back to the states and that's where it should stay. >> and, of course, democrats have said that they only support those abortions if, of course, the life of the mother is at stake or the life of the child. i want to play something that you said about abortion when you were running for governor in 2016. >> when you outlaw the ability

to terminate pregnancies and make it illegal it makes it unsafe for some of the most vul merble people in the world. young people who are afraid in a spot they don't want to be in. america was an unsafe place for women before roe versus wade. >> you said america was an unsafe place for women before roe versus wade. by your standard is america unsafe for women as a result of roe being overturned? >> no, it's not. and, of course, this is something that should have been returned to the states. >> you've evolved in your thinking in that? you said right there it was unsafe for women before roe. >> that was a comment from over eight years ago. and certainly i've evolved in that position, but part of the way i've evolved it's important north dakota as a pro life state different than even our neighbor minnesota, the states are going to be different and i have been clear that i am opposed to a federal abortion ban. i'm aligned with president trump on that. and this is something that has

to be left to the states. >> i'm just -- to be very clear, how -- what changed your mind? why did you think it was unsafe before roe versus wade and why not now? >> you know and everybody else knows that care has evolved during that period of time, and i think that we can accomplish both of those goals. we can make sure that we're protecting and honoring life, making sure we're also delivering against maternal care and that's going to do -- be handled best at a state by state level. >> obviously, as we started this conversation we talked about the fact that you're on the short list to be donald trump's running mate. have you heard from the president about this? has he asked you to be his running mate? >> everything about the process of the vice president thing that's between the campaign and those that might be being considered, but i would just say, that president trump after his strong debate performance on thursday, where he was going in the polls before that, what this is doing for his fund raise, the strong performance he has, he's

got so many good choices he can pick for this job. he can probably win the election without a vice president going forward. >> have you had any conversations about it? yes or no? >> that would be between the president and i. >> that's not a no. i lost my pen. we made news. thank you. i appreciate it. governor burgum, thank you so much. when we come back, pressure is growing for president biden to drop out of the race. so will he step aside? we'll discuss it. the panel is next. type 2 diabetes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone. ♪ ♪ i got the power of 3. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. i'm lowering my risk. adults lost up to 14 pounds. i lost some weight. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles.

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because when you push for smarter solutions, crisis. >> should abortion be the number one issue in 2024. >> if it's sunday it's "meet the press." welcome back. the panel is here. news chief political analyst chuck todd, christina lodano rooney, washington correspondent for telemundo. former obama white house communications direct jennifer palmieri, mark short, former chief of staff to vice president mike pence. thanks to all of you for being here. no shortage of things to discuss on this sunday. chuck, let me start with you. like you have been working the phones and hearing panic from democrats throughout the weekend. take us inside your conversations. >> well look, thursday night to friday morning it was full-on panic and everybody was trying

to figure out what are the rules of the dnc, how would this work, who could get to biden? who could get to jill biden to talk them out of this? i would say over the weekend there's this resignation, what i would say, there's not much that can be done without his cooperation. okay. this only happens if he chooses to do it, and there appears to be an unofficial memo that has gone out that said if you want him to get out don't say it yet. if you say it publicly, there's nothing -- nothing will get him more defiant about staying in the race than "the new york times" editorial race saying get out of this race. there was this. you could see it. there's been some public leakage of some donors saying this, reed hoffman indicating this. look, there's about a ten-day window here. >> yeah. >> i am -- i am fascinated by the -- by some things we vice president seen. we haven't seen biden. one rally they were able to put together in north carolina that

was very difficult to put together, rallies are hard right now for democrats, because they have to worry about gaza protesters and all of this other stuff. that went well. where is he since? if you have issues about whether you can think on your feet, and it's not a problem, and it's just a bad debate, what would you be doing? you would be flooding the airwaves. you would be doing interviews podcasts or this or that, go to friendly spots. the fact they're not doing any of that i think is one of those hey, look what's not happening. that's a big deal too. >> yeah. christina, pick up on that point. i mean, basically democrats are also waiting to see what the polling will show and the public has the final say here. we all saw the same debate. but if it doesn't have a big impact with the public, with voters, president biden could make the argument, look, i'm going to stay in this race. how are people who you're talking to reacting to what we witnessed on thursday.

>> the voters we talked to, we had a town hall in l.a. with latino leaders and a lot of them said they didn't hear anything new. more form over substance. they're saying that their worse fears they had of both of them were confirmed and came true. they see a biden who did not put to rest their concerns about the -- his mental acuity. they were resentful that he didn't defend them more against the litany of lies that donald trump was saying. and they were very resentful of the golf back and forth between them. it's two old white men being childish talking about something that most of the working class does not understand. and then i was out talking to registered voters in atlanta, one of them said he would rather vote for biden, an 80 something

that sometimes loses his train of thought than a man that has 80 something criminal charges against him. there was another guy who said he's going to stick with trump. this did not change. there was a couple that was very interesting, because what they said to me is, that they love joe biden, especially because he was the guy that saved the country from trump being re-elected, and they are concerned that by staying, he's going to be the guy that brings him back. >> jen, give us the reality check inside the democratic party. can he stay in this race? >> i think this is where people -- chuck is right about how, you know, lot of concern on friday night and now we're 48 hours in. the deeper we get into it, the more you realize how early this is, right. it is, you know, it was a -- it was a bad performance and it was particularly concerning given his age, but, you know, polls right now are kind of meaningless and then when you

look at the actual evidence, he's raised -- there's a new number, i think it's $33 million. he had, you know, the campaign points to his good performance on friday in north carolina and i think what's important about that performance isn't necessarily that, you know, he had a good moment. it was the way the crowd reacted to him and so i think people are seeing, is there a rally in effect here? are people having his back? i have certainly been guilty of underestimating, like i did not think he was going to win the 2020 nomination. i have underestimated like the american people decided in 2017, joe biden is the guy to take on trump and do you really want to mess with that now? given the stakes and when the only evidence we have right now is there seems to be a rallying effect and i think people are -- that is why people are hanging back, you know, and not criticizing him and giving him room for everyone to process what this means. you know, people are approaching

this with a lot of integrity. they're trying to figure out what the right thing to do is. >> speaking of that, i mean, mark, are republicans almost a little nervous for president biden to get out of the race? because then, that's a game changer. and by the way, you're getting lot of ratings for a brokered convention. all of a sudden all of that focus on donald trump will shift to the democrats. >> i think that it was an absolute disaster for the biden campaign on thursday night and i think most of america is locked in on what they're going to do. there's only a small sliver of people undecided. you're not going to see a change in polls it will be a false comfort for democrats. in the small number for undecided voters can he make it in the most important job in the world tore another four years and now they're wondering can he make it another six months. it was a dramatic, dramatic failing for president biden in that appearance and i think the reality is that for republicans, they probably are pretty encouraged where they stand and there's no way out for democrats right now, kristen.

if they go to kamala harris, she's less popular than joe biden. if the party of identity politics passes over the first african american female vice president to choose somebody else there's going to be all kinds of rift. >> democrats want to lecture republicans for not putting -- for putting party over country how they've been enabling of donald trump. mitch mcconnell is frequently criticized for that moment where he decided to prioritize not dividing his own party and letting trump off the hook not voting to convict him during the impeachment. can democrats really sit there and say, you know, this is no the about whether you think biden can win the election. he might be able to win the election. not because he's joe biden. it's because he's not donald trump. the issue is, is he telling the truth about whether he can serve a full four years? this is -- there's a lot of challenges in the world. do we want a president who could be incapacitated? this is -- this is one of those where you got to say to

yourself, this is hard, risk, no matter what you do here, but you have to say to yourself, what's in the best interest of the country? not the party. what's in the best interest of the country in the next four years. >> people don't know that yet. >> that's a fair point. >> it's a pretty big deal to say the president of the united states is not able to do his jobnd a there's not evidence any of that. >> i have to pause it because we have another panel coming up. when we come back a memorable moment in atlanta with millions watching, that wasn't a presidential debate. we look back on the muhammad ali

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astrazeneca may be able to help. welcome back. the paris olympics are now less than a month away. with final preparations under way as the city prepares to welcome more than 15 million fans. in 1996, olympic gold medalist muhammad ali lit the cauldron during the opening ceremony to the atlanta games, a ceremony also dedicated to the memory of dr. martin luther king jr. civil rights leader andrew young, the olympic's co-chair

and atlanta's former mayor reflected on this moment in an interview with "meet the press." >> when we were selecting who should light the torch, we really wanted that team, we wanted evander holyfield and a greek sprinter and we wanted janet evans and we thought muhammad ali was the best-known athlete who really took his sport to a new level, and i think, though, that if martin was right, that violence is the language of the unheard, that everybody in the world is speaking in these olympics in some way, and the presence of muhammad ali should have been a symbol of the fact that we're protestant, catholic, jew, muslim, hindu, all working together. >> and you can watch the paris olympics this summer on nbc and streaming on peacock. when we come back, it's donald trump's most important decision before the party convention.

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on medicare? have diabetes? when enjoying life's special moments are you left guessing which foods are right for you? with the freestyle libre 3 system you'll know your glucose and where it's headed no fingersticks needed. freestyle libre 3 manage your diabetes with more confidence and lower your a1c. so you can focus on those special moments. covered by medicare for more people managing diabetes with insulin. talk to your provider or visit freestylelibre.us/medicare and the panel is back. jen, let's talk about what would happen if president biden were to make that decision to step aside, to pass the torch? what would that look like?

what would an open or brokered convention look like? >> it's kind of unappealing. i think that's partly why people, you know, everyone is -- is -- it's like processing, you know, what that's going to be. >> yeah. >> so it's -- if he decided to step aside before the -- prior to the convention, you know, people could -- people could run and you would have a separate ballot until somebody emerged from the convention as a winner. one idea james carville has, where obama, clinton and biden would select five people go to the convention, like "america's got talent." dems got talent. i mean we do. i think people would -- i don't think somebody could pick them. you know, you would have a convention. there's an argument that would be so exciting and you would come out of that and it would energize.

we know an idea sounds good and then once you unleash it into the world you never know what you're doing and that's what people are worried about. >> when afraid of democracy you're making mistakes. i'm afraid more people will be involved in this process. every time a political party worries about the voters, and then tries to sort of create a system that sort of kind of side-swipes you're opening yourself up for problems here. that said, let's be realistic here. if he decides to do this, to back off, he controls his delegates because he already -- they're already his delegates. he would control essentially be king or queen maker here and there is really no other option. it's kamala harris. and i kind of think everybody needs to realize this. it's going to be her perhaps why you have other democratic figures saying as much as they want this they're nervous if she leads the ticket. if you look at biden's poll numbers and if you believe this was is about biden stick with

him. this is about trump which is why biden -- we should look at this through the other prism. how has trump not got an lift out of this. it shows you how -- >> he's got a really -- he's got a high floor and low ceiling. i said in the first panel you don't see a big difference in the polling. for the small number our country is so divided for the small number undecided they have no confidence that biden can be president again. kamala harris is the only one who doesn't do as well against trump than any other democrat. >> right now, she doesn't do as well. i spoke to someone who said wait a minute, it could look a little bit different if this happens, this scenario, that jen lays out. what if former president barack obama and hillary clinton and bill clinton say hey, support this person. we're throwing our weight behind this person. that could potentially change the dynamic, potentially, for kamala harris. >> well, the talk of the nation would be in that contested

convention. they would be king makers. what does that say about democracy. that's one of the questions. and would it be a boost or a bust? we don't know. it depends on the infilgt and chaos. i don't think american people have a stomach for more chaos and divisiveness at this point. >> but regardless the campaign has to change. if biden is going to stay it's obvious anybody who has dealt with elderly parents or friends it's like going bankrupt, first it happens slowly and then quickly. and the -- it would be irresponsible for the biden campaign not to make him more front and center if they're going to stick with this. she's got to be the lead. she has got -- they have to get the country comfortable with her. a lot of people are going to go to the polls with the assumption if biden is leading the top of the ticket, that he's not going to finish his term so it would be irresponsible if the biden campaign didn't essentially help her make a better connection with the american people,

arguably, the biden left wing has never been fans of kamala harris. it's obvious. they have always kind of ostracized her. >> i don't feel like that anymore. she was really great on thursday night. i think you're going to -- she makes the most effective argument on abortion. you know, i think -- >> she might be better as an advocate for him than herself. >> she calls them trump abortion bans. what everybody should call them. you will see more of her even if thursday night had been awesome, she would be out there more and that's a good thing. >> mark, one beat on veep stakes for trump. i tried to get an answer out of doug burgum. he went so far to suggest there have been conversations. >> i'm sure there have. >> who do you think he's going to pick? if you had to make a bet. >> about a month ago i think i said it would be burgum, marco rubio or jd vance. i think burgum provides the personality complement to donald trump. provides the midwestern

governor, a lot of assurances to people. >> loyalty. >> i know. >> sounds a lot like vice president mike pence. >> marco rubio provides the most substance as far as understanding international foreign policy. jd vance is a mini me. >> last ten seconds, final thoughts on what you're watching for in veep stakes? >>, obviously, with telemundo we're watching to see if marco rubio gets it. it would be the first hispanic. it would be a history making decision. we're watching how he justifies what he said about trump before and how now he's fallen in line with him. we're expecting that from all three right now. >> it's a great point and one of the big shifts we've seen is on his view on immigration. so great point. thank you all for a fantastic conversation on very big sunday. and before we go, i just want to thank my dear friend and colleague peter alexander who did a phenomenal job in the moderator's chair and i. john margo and i were happy to

welcome zachary into our lives. thank you for your support. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday it's "meet the press." and this is where a spark happens. this is the teamwork that fuels it. the mentors who shape it. and this is where it comes together with this care team. connecting the dots. all leading up to this moment right

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